tv At This Hour With Berman and Bolduan CNN May 3, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT
place team tied last night. celebrations went well into the night after the big win. congratulations. they look very happy, right? thank you for joining me today. i'm carol costello. "at this hour with berman and bolduan" starts now. lying ted does not have the temperament to be doing this. >> do you want your kids repeating the words of donald trump. >> if we win in indiana, it's over with, folks. it's over with, and then we focus on hillary clinton. >> we cannot let barack obama's legacy fall into donald trump's hands. >> bernie sanders is the strongest candidate. >> hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. john is off today. it is voting day in america once again, folks. so get all of your hoosier,
midwest references ready. throw them all through that basketball ring. here we go. the good people of the great state of indiana are headed to the polls as we speak. what happens in indiana could reset the map in this wild primary season. 57 republican delegates, 83 democratic delegates, they are up for grabs today. front-runners hillary clinton and donald trump, they could be looking at two very different results. tonight, trump is aiming for a knockout blow against ted cruz. cruz has events coming up any minute -- moments from now. we're going to bring it to you when we see him, hear what he has so say on voting day. and for the democrats, the clinton campaign seems to be lowering expectations about a big win against bernie sanders. she is not even in the state of indiana today. so much at stake on this primary day. let's get to cnn's sara murray and chris frates. they are at polling stations in indianapolis. sara, first to you. what are you seeing this morning? >> reporter: well, kate, i think everyone knows the stakes at this point. it's going to be very, very
difficult to stop trump from getting to 1,237 before cleveland unless ted cruz can stop him here, and that's why you have seen cruz and pretty much every high-profile surrogate he has criss-crossing this state making the final pitch, trying to convince voters that, you know, trump doesn't have conservative principles, that you can't believe what he says, but trump and his campaign feel very, very confident going in today and trump has been openly saying on the stump, look, if i win in indiana, we have got this thing wrapped up. that doesn't mean the campaign is not laying groundwork in some of the states that come up next. they certainly are in places like west virginia, in places like california, but they feel like they are going to leave indiana with a victory tonight, that he is going to come out of this essentially being the nominee. all of that said, ted cruz is still insisting that he is to go on to cleveland no matter what happens here today. kate, as you know, that's going to be a tough pitch to make to his supporters, maybe an even tougher one to make to his donors if he can't stop trump in
indiana. >> yeah. what tonight means for what ted cruz says tomorrow will be very interesting in that pitch he will make. it's great to see you. great to see you in indianapolis. i wish i was there with you. let's get to another great guy in a great city of indianapolis, chris frates. at another polling station in indianapolis. what are you seeing? >> reporter: kate, we're here outside of indianapolis in a gymnasium. we're getting a little bit busy here for lunchtime. you have folks filling out their ballots here and they walk them across and they get them counted here. i can tell you about 500 ballots have already been counted. that's pretty high. they're looking at some pretty high turnout, and i want to bring in here we're joined by a special guest. i want to bring in the marion county cle clerk, myra eld ridg. tell us about the turnout. >> turnout has been incredible. we're so excited to see so many voters participating in the
electoral process because that's what democracy is all about. >> you said there's been early voting. how that is that compared to the last cycle? >> early voting the numbers have significantly increased from the 2012 primary presidential election. >> reporter: we're looking at a 95% increase. >> yes, we are. >> so there you have it, kate, a huge increase in early voting. we're looking to see if it plays out in the polls as people continue to stream in all day today. we'll keep you updated, kate. >> 95% increase in early voting. that's what i would call an increase. chris frates, great to see you. thank you so much. please pass on our thanks to the clerk as well and good luck today. let's talk about the fiery battle on the ground in indiana between donald trump and ted cruz. i want to bring in barry bennett a senior adviser from the trump campaign and steve lonegan director for the cruz campaign. great to see you. >> great to be here. >> let's start with our favorite thing, the predictions game as
we all love. barry, you had no problem throwing out some predictions before the new york primary. what's your prediction today on delegates. >> it's going to be huge. >> how many? do you think you'll get all 57? >> it's possible but i'd be happy with half. because we were counting on none three weeks ago. >> the landscape has significantly changed it seems, steve. what do you think? >> kate, i think the big story this morning is the ringing endorsement that came out of ronald reagan's oldest son michael who came out and urged indiana voters to vote for ted cruz saying donald trump is no ronald reagan, the same donald trump who supported jimmy carter against ronald reagan, who supported walter mondale, who ran ads in newspapers in 1987 attacking -- >> but steve, trump got lou holtz. >> wow. he attacked reagan's foreign policy saying those are bad deals. those are the bad deals that brought the soviet union to its knees.
if donald trump does win tonight and pull out half the delegates, you will see a very different donald trump tomorrow. donald trump will look a lot more like hillary clinton than ronald reagan. >> you didn't even tell me. give me a guesstimation on delegates. >> ted cruz is going to do very well. he will outperform expectations like he always does. i don't think the conservative base of this party is ready to throw everything over to donald trump. in essence, we're not going to nominate hillary clinton with a penis. >> steve. >> i said it. >> steve? >> yeah. barry, steve. why does this always happen on my show. why do you always throw around the crazy on my show? all i asked for was a delegate count. >> permission to move this way a little bit. >> permission to do anything as long as you don't repeat steve. steve lonegan is now in time-out. let me move on. let's now talk about something strange, not just what likes to happen on my show. steve lonegan, i'm looking at you.
let's talk about something strange that happened on the campaign trail which is ted cruz approaching, engaging, and taking it from a protester. listen here. >> sir, america is a better country -- >> without you. >> thank you for those kind sentiments. let me point out i am treating you respectfully the entire time, and a question that everyone here should ask -- >> are you canadian? >> do you want your kids -- >> are you canadian? >> do you want your kids repeating the words of donald trump? >> you guys, as the sound bite was rolling you're saying exactly what i was going to ask you. barry, you point out, this wasn't protesters that were there waiting for him. he walked across the street essentially to engage these protesters and speak with them. first you, steve, good idea? are these voters you guys are thinking -- >> this is the kind of ted cruz who is ready to be president on day one. he's ready to engage people in an intellectual discussion and he did a good job engaging the guy and the guy was questioning
his support of trump -- >> this is the ted cruz that washington hates. >> why? >> can i talk, please? >> well -- >> this is the ted cruz -- >> go ahead, barry. >> this is why people don't like ted cruz. this is why he has a net negative favorable rating with republicans? >> because he engages in voters? >> he turned from the happy warrior of the conservative moment to the mean guy who yells stay off my lawn. >> you don't hand it to him for at least going over and talking to these guys? >> he took cameras with him. it was silly. >> it was good, good street campaigning. let me tell you something, earlier this week john boehner -- >> if you think this is good, this is why you're going to lose. >> the endorsement earlier this week by john mainer sent a powerful message. donald trump is our guy. that's what he was doing this week and that's what you saw in john boehner's endorsement. if he becomes the nominee, donald trump will be the candidate of john boehner, of mitch mcconnell, of the republican establishment and deals he makes will undermine everything.
you know, if donald trump becomes the nominee, he'll become a totally different candidate tomorrow and a couple months from now all those people will be looking off saying what happened to that wall? >> that was definitely the message that ted cruz was telling those protesters yesterday and that is not a message they were at all open to taking. so we'll see what indiana voters say about that. you said silly, barry. i want to talk about something else i think we can put it maybe into the silly category. donald trump is now pushing a "national enquirer" story, a story that claims cruz's father was with jfk's killer a few months before jfk was assassinated. donald trump himself, he says it's ridiculous that no one is talking about this story. again, this is from the "national enquirer." do you want to defend donald trump? >> well, i mean, i have not read the story nor do i care to -- >> i summed -- your subscription to the "national enquirer" lapsed. i summed up the story for you right there. why is donald trump doing this?
>> i think, this is a primary and there is no doubt that there's all kinds of crazy that's going on right now, especially in the cruz campaign. but, i mean, i saw that photo, and i don't know if that's him or not, but i mean, come on -- >> barry -- >> that's after they transferred him to mars. >> do you really think you need this kind of a conversation to win the nomination? >> no. >> then why is donald trump engaging in this? he has nothing else to talk about? >> it was a throw away line in a big speech. it wasn't a big deal. >> not a big deal, steve lonegan. >> because donald trump will not debate ted cruz because donald trump and hillary clinton support universal health care. primary voting republicans -- >> barry -- >> a number of times on this network. >> you are really leaving open a possibility that this rafael cruz story is true. jive no idea. >> then why is donald trump pushing it? >> come on. it's such a silly -- >> a throw away line in one speech. no big deal. >> does he need to be a little
careful? is that presidential? do you want the front-runner for the republican nomination pushing "national enquirer" stories. >> i don't like the "national enquirer" so i wouldn't do it but i don't think it -- >> so you're denouncing the story. it's about time. you're not denouncing the story? it's not worth discussing. >> you're the one going you know donald trump is going to be a different company. you don't know anything. >> you know it and i know it. he's going to pivot off of this if he manages to win in indiana. you remember -- >> it's not living in reality that hurts -- >> donald trump supports socialized medicine, universal health care, he supports obama's individual mandate. he supports higher taxes -- >> let me end it like this, guys. the only thing we do know is we'll see what indiana has to say tonight. will they listen to michael reagan, to ted cruz? will they listen to donald trump? you and i, the three of us, will sit and watch it tonight. this was an interesting one. thanks, guys. >> thank you. >> steve, steve, steve.
we're going to have continuing coverage of the indiana primaries all day on cnn with our special coverage starting at 4:00 p.m. eastern. yes, it's 11:00 and we're just getting started. the stakes are just as high for the democrats today. bernie sanders hoping to keep his white house hopes alive. he is pounding the pavement. his campaign manager is joining us ahead. plus hillary clinton heads into what has become hostile territory. apologizing for saying she could put the coal business out of business. she's in west virginia today. will she get a warmer welcome than yesterday?
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campaigning elsewhere. cnn political commentator margaret hoover. alex burns, national political reporter for "the new york times" and jackie kucinich washington bureau chief for the daily beast. we can talk about what happened in the last conversation i had which we can talk about in a second but in honor of john berman who is under the weather today, i will be making a "star wars" reference so brace yourself. this is for j.b. alex, you liken today's primary to the death star hovering over alder ron and spoiler alert alderon blows up i learned. remind us, alex, who is who in that scenario. >> donald trump is the death star. ted cruz is sort of the one haplessly protesting we're a peaceful planet, please don't do this to us. obviously we need to let the voters vote but the polls seem to point in one direction. this could be close to the end of the line for ted cruz. any path for him to the republican nomination or even to
a contested convention regardless of who it ended up nominating ha to run through indiana. if he does lose indiana today, if he loses by a convincing margin, a lot of folks involved in funding and organizing and planning the stop trump movement say that it will just break the will of the resistance. >> absolutely. let's play our other favorite game, ted cruz wakes up tomorrow feeling -- >> i think he'll be feeling disappointed, but i think there also might be to talk about another movie a sixth sense situation going on where, you know, i can't imagine -- >> don't spoiler alert that movie. >> i won't. everyone is fine in that movie. but i think there's going to be a situation where he keeps going on and he hasn't given any indication anywhere that he's not in this to the convention or at least past california. >> you brought it. i like that, jackie. so after ted cruz wakes up and sees dead people, he calls his donors and tells them what, margaret? >> he defiantly says stick with
me and the truth is this is the key, where does he have money to keep going. it's not just the hard dollar donations because he does have fervent hard dollar donations. they can putz along. but these campaigns are largely about outside money, large money disclosed and undisclosed that can do to the air war. where is the cavalry. that's what you need in california to block and tackle. the truth is the never trump movement started way too late. >> it seems that it might be also ending way too late. we'll see what happens. councilman, if this is close, if it's not a 15-point victory for donald trump, is that less of a victory for him leaving indiana? >> yeah. i think if donald trump walks away with anything less than 40, 45 delegates, it might be seen as some momentum for ted cruz. i think this is ted cruz's alamo quite frankly. he's made the case that -- >> is there a basement in the alamo?
south of it? a different movie? >> one of my favorites. it's going to be interesting to see what happens when trump does pull up with those 45 delegates but not only is there a likely path for him to get to 1,237 but it will become clearer to people as they continue to die jebs these numbers. >> alex -- go ahead margaret. >> people you didn't expect, we're seeing them fall in line. republicans fall in love, democrats fall if line. you're starting to see conservative intellectual elites make the case not for donald trump, but for falling in lined behind donald trump because that's where the momentum is going. you saw jon huntsman come out and essentially say if he's going to be the nominee, with he have to support him. you see the conservative "wall street journal" board laying that foundation today. so i think after indiana, it's not just that the money drys up for ted cruz, it's that the wind blows vigorously in donald trump -- >> and ted cruz says defiantly they're going to say in it, but
if indiana becomes trump country, what does the map then look like going forward in those other cruz-friendly states? >> this is part of why losing indiana big would be so devastating to cruz. it seemed like may was teed up pretty well for him. you have a series of states like montana, like south dakota, eventually running into california where, you know, somebody of cruz's characteristics ought to do well. similar to states where he has done well in the past but what we've seen, and we've already seen in indiana what momentum can do to a state that looks like it's friendly to ted cruz. after trump blew it out in new york and the other northeastern states last week, it completely changed the race in indiana. and if he scores a significant win in indiana, i think you see some of the states like nebraska next week start to swing -- >> he's the first one up on the air which is very interesting move in and of itself. got to wrap it up. a lot more to come. thanks so much. appreciate it, everybody. right now there's so much at
stake as voters head to the polls in my great home state of indiana. hillary clinton's campaign says it is bracing for a loss. we're going to play the expectations game. our favorite game ahead. one of the nicknames for indiana, the crossroads of america, we'll take you there. take you to the ground and hear from the voters who are deciding today. this is our special live coverage of indiana's primary. and i'm tired of all these career politicians saying what people want to hear. r small bus you'll never get charged data overages... ...ever. get your own 24/7 dedicated business account team. and with double the lte coverage in the last year, you can get more done in more places. right now, get 2 lines with 6 gigs each for just 80 bucks... and for a limited time, get a hotspot free. yeah - free. switch your business to t-mobile @work today.
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>> and appreciate your putting a bright smile on it. listen, it's up to the voters. it is up to the people of indiana. it is up to the men and women of this state. i will say this, this morning donald trump went on national television and attacked my father. donald trump alleges that my dad was involved in assassinating jfk. now, let's be clear, this is nuts. this is not a reasonable position. this is just kooky. and while i'm at it i guess i should admit my dad is jfk, he's secret ll lly elvis and jimmy h is married in his backyard. donald's source for this is the "national enquirer." the "national enquirer" is tabloid trash, but it's run by
his good friend david pecker, the ceo, who has endorsed donald trump. and so the "national enquirer" has become his hit piece that he uses to smear anybody and everybody. and this is not the first time donald trump has used david pecker's "national enquirer" to go after my family. it was also the "national enquirer" that went after my wife, heidi. that just spread lies, blatant lies, but i guess donald was dismayed because it was a couple weeks ago they wrote this story about jfk and donald was dismayed that the folks in the media weren't repeating this latest idiocy so he figured he'd have to do it himself. he'd have to go on national television and accuse my dad of that. listen, my father has been my hero my whole life. my dad was imprisoned and tortured in cuba, and when he came to america, he had nothing. he had $100 in his underwear. he washed dishes making 50 cents
an hour. you now, he's exactly the kind of person donald trump looks down on. i'm going to do something
i haven't done for the entire campaign for those of you all who have traveled with me. i'm going to tell you what i really think of donald trump. this man is a pathological liar. he doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. he lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. and he had a pattern that i think is straight out of a psychology textbook. his response is to accuse everybody else of lying. he accuses everybody on that debate stage of lying, and it's simply a mindless yell. whatever he does, he accuses everyone else of doing. the man cannot tell the truth but he combines it with being a narcissist. a narcissist at a level i don't think this country has ever seen. donald trump is such a
narcissist that barack obama looks at him and goes, dude, what's your problem? everything in donald's world is about donald. and he combines being a pathological liar, and i say pathological because i actually think donald if you hooked him up to a lie detector pass, he could say one thing in the morning, one thing at noon, and one thing in the evening, all contradictory, and he'd pass the lie detector test each time. whatever lie he's telling, at that minute he believes it, but the man is utterly a moron. >> senator -- >> let me finish this, please. the man is utterly a -- morality does not exist for him. it's why he went after heidi directly and smeared my wife, attacked her. apparently she's not pretty enough for donald trump. i may be biased but i think if
he's making that allegation he's also legally blind. but donald is a bully. we just visited with fifth graders. every one of us knew bullies in elementary school. bullies don't come from strength. bullies come from weakness. bullies come from a deep, yawning cavern of insecurity. there is a reason donald builds giant buildings and puts his name on them everywhere he goes. and i will say there are millions of people in this country who are angry. they're angry at washington. they're angry at politicians who have lied to them. i understand that anger. i share that anger. and donald is cynically exploiting that anger, and he is lying to his supporters. donald will betray his supporters on every issue.
if you care about immigration, donald is laughing at you, and he's telling the monied elites he doesn't believe what he's saying. he's not going to build a wall. that's what he told "the new york times." he will betray you on every issue across the board. and his strategy of being a b l bully in the particular is directed at women. donald has a real problem with women. people who are insecure, people who are insecure about who they are, donald is terrified by strong women. he lashes out at them. remember, this is the same donald trump who last week here in indiana proudly touted the endorsement from mike tyson, a convicted rapist who served three years in prison here in fi f indiana for raping a 17-year-old girl and in donald's world, he said mike tyson was a tough guy. i don't think rapists are tough
guys. i spent a lot of years in law enforcement dealing with rapists. rapists are weak. they are cowards, and they're bullies, and anyone that thinks they're a tough guy, that reveals everything about donald trump's character. donald trump said bill clinton was targeted by unattractive women. you know what? i've been blessed to be surrounded by strong women my entire life. today is voting day here in indiana. the president of the united states has a bully pulpit unlike anybody else. the president of the united states affects our culture. i ask the people of indiana, think about the next five years if this man were to become president. think about the next five years,
the boasting, the pathological lying, the picking up the "national enquirer" and accusing people of killing jfk. the bullying. think about your kids coming back and emulating this. for people in indiana who long for a day when we were nice to each other, when we treated people with respect, when we didn't engage in sleaze and lies, and i would note one of the lies he engages in, listen, donald trump is a serial philanderer and he boepasts abo it. this is not a secret. he's proud of being a serial philanderer. i want everyone to think about your teenage kids. the president of the united states talks about how great it is to commit adultery, how proud he is, describes his battles with venereal disease as his own personal vietnam. that's a quote, by the way, on the howard stern show.
do you want to spend the next five years with your kids bragging about infidelity. what does he do? he does the same projection, just like a pathological liar, he accuses everyone of lying even though he boasts about his infidelity he plants in the "national enquirer" a lie about me and my family attacking my family. he accuses others of doing what he is doing. i'll tell you as the father of two young girls, the idea of our daughters coming home and repeating any word that man says horrifies me. that is not who america is. and i would say to the hoosier state, the entire country is depending on you. the entire country is looking to you right now. it is only indiana that can pull us back. it is only the good sense and good judgment of indiana that can pull us back.
we are staring at the abyss. and i have incredible faith in hoosiers. >> why isn't your message resonating with people then. you were up two weeks ago. trump was up 15 points now. you're saying all these things about him -- >> all right. looks like the transmission there cut out a little early, but i think we heard quite a lot. if there was any question of what ted cruz thought of his rival, donald trump, i think it's been answered. words like this man is a pathological liar. the biggest narcissist ever. utterly amoral. a serial philanderer. that's just a little bit of what we just heard. i think we have the signal back. let's listen back in. >> there is a broader dynamic at work, which is network executives have made a decision to get behind donald trump.
rupert murdoch and roger ailes at fox news have turned fox news into the donald trump network. rupert murdoch is used to picking world leaders in australia and the united kingdom running tabloids, and we're seeing it here at home with the consequences for this nation. media executives are trying to convince hoosiers, trying to convince americans, the race is decided. you have no choice. you are stuck between donald trump or hillary clinton, either one of which is a horrific choice for this country. and i will say the cynicism -- and donald is playing on the cynicism. he lets the media echo he cannot be beat. hoosiers can prove that wrong. the people of indiana can prove that wrong, and the country is depending on indiana. if indiana does not act, this
country could well plunge into the abyss. i don't believe that's who we are. we are not a proud, bothfastful self-centered, mean spirited, hateful, bullying nation. if you want to understand donald trump, look no further than the interview he did a few months ago in iowa when he was asked a very simple question -- when is the last time you asked god for forgiveness? and donald trump said he had never asked god for forgiveness for anything. i want you to think about that. what does that say about a person? i have asked god for forgiveness three times today. think about your children. do you want your children coming home and saying, mommy, i don't need to ask god for forgiveness for anything. why? because donald trump doesn't, and he if he doesn't and everyone likes him, all the
media praises him, i don't need to either. i love this nation with all my heart. i love the people of this country. this is not who we are. these are not our values. if anyone has seen the movie "back to the future ii," the screenwriter says that he based the character biff tanon on donald trump. a caricature of a braggadocious, arrogant buffoon who builds giant casinos with giant pictures of him everywhere he looks. we are looking potentially at the biff tanon presidency. i don't think the people of america want that. i don't think we deserve that. i don't think hoosiers want that. >> senator, these are some of the strongest words you've used against donald trump yet. you know i have been with you, i heard you talk about him. today feels different for you.
i'm going to ask you a question and you're going to say i sound like a broken record -- >> if you sound like a broken record, does someone else have a record? you have asked one already, hallie. >> will you support him as the nominee. i don't understand why you won't answer the question, senator. if you say he's a liar -- if you say he's a pathological liar -- >> you have asked one already. go ahead, jessica. >> when you talk about midwestern values and the commencommon sense and good judgment, if hoosiers don't pick you today, does that mean they consider things a different way when the northeast voted and you could say those are trump's neighbors? >> there is no doubt this indiana primary has national significance. the media is trying desperately to convince you it's over, i'll tell you if hoosiers come out and vote, if you pick up the phone and you call your friends, you call your neighbors, if hoosiers come out today and vote and say no, this is not who we are, this is not america, that will change the entire
trajectory of this campaign, of this primary. it will pull us back from the cliff. indiana can do it. indiana can pull us back, but it takes hoosiers showing up and voting today, and the country is looking to indiana. is looking to the judgment of the good men and women of this state. heidi and i and carly, we have traveled the state showing hoosiers respect, asking for their support, answering their questions, all the while donald trump laughs at the people of this state, laughs, bullies, attacks, insults, i don't believe that's america, and it is my hope, it is my prayer,
that hoosiers will come out and vote today in record numbers to say to this country, this is not who we are. we are a people who believe in goodness. we are a people who believe in manners. we are a people who believe in generosity. we are a people who believe in honesty. we are a people who believe in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. that is america. that is the america i love. it's the america my father fled cuba to come to. we're fighting for this nation. we're fighting for who we are for the very soul and character of this nation, and it is quite literally in the hands of hoosiers across this state. >> what if they don't pick you? if they don't pick you what does that say about indiana? >> all right. you're hearing right there ted cruz speaking to reporters as he makes a stop in evansville, indiana. i mean, we've never really heard words this strong coming from ted cruz against his rival, biting, scathing critique of
donald trump, taking him squarely on on several fronts, things we should absolutely talk about. barry bennett, a senior adviser to the trump campaign is here with me now. i know you did not hear the top of it, but i think you kind of got the gist once you got your earpiece in. he's a pathological liar ted cruz says. he is utterly amoral. morality does not exist for him. he calls him a serial philanderer. what do you say? >> you know, kate, i have been in politics my whole life. this is what i do. and i have been a part of a lot of campaigns that have come to an end that we didn't expect or want, but this was truly sad display, what just happened. >> why is this sad? >> because he knows -- his people knows he's going to lose tonight. yet to go out and do this -- i know he's tired. i feel for he and his family. but that was reprehensible. i mean, no one should do this. i don't know who thought this
was a great idea, but we're watching his campaign implod. we're watching his reputation just being torn to shreds. there's, you know -- this is not the way you lose. >> one of the first things though that he brought up, barry, has to do with something you and i just talked about. he came out here and one of the reasons he's so mad is because of this "national enquirer" story about his father calling it kooky, calling it nuts. but when you say it's sad, it's beyond the pale -- >> yeah. when you call somebody amoral, that's ridiculous. >> but donald trump has taken on his wife. >> a serial liar -- >> he's taken on his wife. >> they both went after their wives. they ran ads. >> do you think donald trump should apologize -- >> donald trump has never done anything like what just happened, never. >> what? >> never called anybody amoral. >> called hillary clinton -- >> called anybody a liar. >> his moniker for ted cruz is
lying ted cruz. >> but there's a difference between saying you're incapable of telling the truth versus telling lies. that was very sad. you know indiana like i do. my family is there. your family is there. this is not persuasive to anybody. >> now, you're telling me that you think donald trump is taking the moral high ground here? >> no. i'm saying the primary has been raw with this, but this was the piece -- this was the top of the cake. >> do you acknowledge donald trump is part of that know in pushing this "national enquirer" story. you said earlier you said you would not have gone there. you acknowledged it was a misstep. >> i don't believe anything i read in the "national enquirer." >> donald trump seems to. >> he raised the spectacle in his speech but that's not why he's angry. he's angry because he's losing, it's not working, and he's tired. to hurl insults and then take one or two questions afterwards. midway through voting in indiana, that's a campaign implosion. >> there's no question ted cruz is laying it all out on the
line. he talked about how high the stakes are. >> half the people have already voted. >> but seriously, barry, ted cruz, i miean, he's stepping up his attacks but do you think donald trump should be -- >> i think after tonight you'll see -- >> saying -- singing a little bit of a different tune if he doesn't want ted cruz to take him on this way. >> after tonight donald trump will be the presumptive nominee and he won't talk about ted cruz anymore. >> what do you think what we just saw from ted cruz and from donald trump back to ted cruz, what do you think it says about the chances of unifying the party. >> the gallup five day average% t , the unification has already started. if you look at donald trump's favorable rating among republican, it's 20 points positive. >> what do you want to see with ted cruz going forward. let's say this goes all in your forward. is donald trump going to reach out to ted cruz to try to unburn this bridge? >> i think some time has to
pass. obviously he's an angry man. it's best to let him heel for a while. >> we heard from steve lonegan here that donald trump is laughing at you. he's one thing in private. he's a different thing in public. that was a conversation paul manafort had with republican insiders in florida. how do you reassure folks that ted cruz isn't correct. gee isn't correct about most of the things he said. i'm not going to waste my time refuting every crazy, wild charge about donald trump. i mean, do you believe that donald trump is not going to build a wall? you don't live in the real world. trust me, the wall is going to be build. america wants it built. >> i know you will acknowledge this, i will force you to acknowledge this, donald trump would be on much safer footing in combatting ted cruz and fighting him if he wouldn't take on these stunts of pushing "national enquirer" stories and taking on wives and making these ridiculous things that a nominee, someone who is comfortable with the fact they're going to lock in a nomination, you wouldn't think
they would need to do. >> in the heat of battle, people say all kinds of things but what happened today, this battle is over and he knows it's over and it was just a sad display. >> it was something. it's great to see you, ba iry. thank you so much for coming back on. running back on set so we could discuss. bernie sanders is hoping for another midwestern win today in indiana. he's facing a tight race with hillary clinton. we'll talk to bernie sanders' campaign manager coming up next.
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campaign manager jeff weaver is joining me right now. jeff, thank you so much for coming in. >> my pleasure, kate. i'm going to have a hard time following up what was just on the air, but go ahead. >> i've had a hard time following up on everything that's been on the air today. it's been quite a show. let's talk about chances in indiana. how's it looking for your guy? >> well, look. the senator has been there the last few days. he had a ton of rallies. gigantic rallies. a lot of enthusiasm for him. i think he's going to do very well tonight. >> does well mean win? >> well, we certainly could win. people come out, we'll certainly win in indiana, absolutely, but it depends on people coming out. people got to go to the polls. >> what does a loss mean for you guys going forward? you saw on "the new york times" in the editorial board basically writing an obituary for you guys this morning. >> well, what i took from that piece, kate, was that bernie sanders is bringing in tremendous amounts of young people and new people in the
democratic party. he's talking about the issues that the democratic party is going to have to adopt if it wants to be successful in the election. that there's a tremendous amount of disenfranchisement with players and if the democratic party wants to reach out and broaden its base and become a winning party on a consistent basis up and down the ballot, it's going to have to adopt a lot of the platform that bernie sanders was talking about in the campaign. that's what i took away from the article. >> let's talk about the dnc. you guys do tout your strength among independent voters. i've heard you say that many times. chairwoman of the democratic party, debbie wasserman-schultz said the party's nominee, in your view, should be chosen by members of the party. that does not include independents. what would you say? >> there are an increasing number of independents including people who vote democrat every time but self-identify as independents. they're disproportionally young people. and if you want to engage in a
path that's going to disenfranchise the young people who affiliate with the democratic party, that's a recipe for disaster. we want young people to have an affinity in the party and participate. and also, it's a good test in the primary system for general election strength. as you know, you can't win a general election with just democrats. you have to have independents. >> you think the chairwoman is wrong? >> she's definitely wrong, absolutely. it's a recipe for a small party, a more insular party, a party that's more out of touch with the broader base of the american people including the broad base of independent democratically leaning independents, who, as i said, vote democratic all the time. there's a lot of young people who fall into this category. millions who vote democratic but self-identify as independents and to push those people away endangers the long-term health of the democratic party. >> jeff weaver. bernie sanders campaign manager.
good luck today, as we say with every voting campaign. we'll talk to you tomorrow. >> thanks, appreciate it. >> thanks so much. let's discuss this. the race on the democratic side with cnn politics executive editor mark preston. cnn political commentator and former campaign manager for 2008. and alex, national political reporter and jackie kusinich. they're feeling good about indiana. >> it's going to be a close race. and it may be that bernie sanders actually ekes it out. it's an open primary. he spent $2 million on ads. hillary didn't spend any. but really, if he's going to change the trajectory of this race, he's going to have to win it by 20 or 30 points and i just don't think that's going to happen. >> what is the landscape, mark? how do you see it depending on if it's close. if it's a close win for either of them, what does the map look
like going forward? >> the map for bernie sanders right now, he can basically not win it in the primary. he has to win it by trying to flip the super delegates who are supporting hillary clinton and right now, she has a 469 person advantage over bernie sanders when it comes to super delegates. so when bernie sanders said he's going to go to the convention floor in florida for a contested convention, in many ways, that's true because he is going to take it to the floor and he is going to require a roll call vote. at the end of the roll call vote, if we believe what we know right now, hillary clinton would then become the nominee. >> but the sanders campaign, they're not open to the possibility of even talking about getting out. they're not. they're going all the way to california and let folks vote. they're going to, i heard some squishy language if they're actually trying to flip super delegates or not. where they are with that. but they're not changing the path. >> this is the difference between being a really formidable serious threat to hillary clinton's grasp on the nomination and being a protest candidate who wants to move
forward with a message that speaks to a certain segment of the party. >> that campaign will take exception to the protest candidate. >> if they simply don't have a path forward. i'm not saying he doesn't have a place in the party today and i do think we'll see if he wins indiana, i think patty's right. he needs a really big margin. not just to change the trajectory of the race but demonstrate there's an underlying feeling this thing has to keep going. >> it has to keep going. what do you think of jeff's reaction when i asked him about debbie wasserman-schultz saying the democrats should be the only ones in the primary? >> there hasn't been a lot of love lost between the dnc and bernie sanders campaign so it doesn't really surprise me that that continues. but this has been good for the sanders campaign. they say they're speaking truth to power and the dnc is a great loyal. >> he talked about the young people drawn into the process. donald trump said the young people who are supporting bernie sanders, those are the kind of
voters he's going to pull over in a general when he's up to hillary clinton. is there evidence of that? >> i think it's wishful thinking on donald trump's part. they are both preaching a certain bit of populism and that has been their appeal but their populist messages are very different. bernie sanders supporters will stay within the democratic party by and large. you might have a few stragglers here and there. donald trump saying the bernie sanders people to support his campaign is really just rhetoric at its best. >> patty? >> playing a prediction game. if bernie sanders would pull off a win here, but we still know the math is so definitely not in his favor. if you're running hillary clinton's campaign right now, what is the message tomorrow? >> the message tomorrow is what she said at the last election, at the last primary and that there is more that unites us than divides us. she needs to bring the bernie sanders supporters in and that's what she's going to do. >> keep on her message.
keep on her path. that's what patty doyle said. alex, jackie, patty, mark. great to see you guys. thank you very much. and thank you for joining us at this hour. john, feel better. "legal view with ashleigh banfield" starts. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> this is cnn breaking news. hello, everyone, i'm ashleigh banfield, welcome to "legal view." breaking news on primary day in indiana and if it wasn't clear how much the hoosier state meant to ted cruz, you need to hear the texas senator and the struggling presidential hopeful unloading on gop front-runner donald trump, whose nomination may be all but sealed in indiana. here's what ted cruz told voters moments ago in evansville. >> donald trump alleges that my dad was involved in assassinating jfk. now, let's be clear. this is