tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN May 4, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
that does it for us. thanks for watching. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts now. here is one thing you can say about this campaign, you ain't seen nothing yet. this is "cnn tonight ." donald trump's takeover of the gop marches on as john kasich drops out and the presumptive nominee sets his sights on hillary clinton. >> she can't put it away. it is like a football team, can't get the ball over the line. i put it away. she can't put it away. >> clinton giving as good as she gets, preparing to take on the republicans' last man standing. >> i think he is a loose cannon and loose cannons tend to misfire. >> if there is one thing the improbable rise of donald trump has taught us, it is that anything can happen. well, probably not this, though. >> i'm anticipating he'll ask me
to be vice president. >> anderson answers the question on everybody's mind. >> are you ready for donald trump? he's already got an unflattering nickname for you. he's unlike any other candidate probably you've ever run against, anyone has seen in a long time. >> anderson, i've seen the presidency up close from two different perspectives. i think i know what it takes. and don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like donald trump running our country. >> if he is a loose cannon, though, he's certainly willing to say things during a race against opponents and we have seen this already that a lot of candidates were not prepared for on the gop side. are you ready for that? >> i've sort of been in the arena for 25 years and i think nearly everything that can be thrown at somebody in politics and public life has come my way.
>> you feel like you know how to run against him. >> absolutely. i'm not running against him. i'm running my own campaign. i'm running to become president. >> donald trump going one on one with our very own wolf blitzer and promising to take the fight to hillary clinton. >> do you think the general election campaign has already started, you versus hillary clinton, that for all practical purposes bernie sanders is out? >> i think what has happened, it has been a little flip. and i'm even surprised by it. i thought i would be going longer and she would be going shorter. she can't put it away. they can't get the ball over the line. i put it away. she can't put it away. i thought i would be out there and she would be campaigning against me. i didn't realize. so, yeah, i'll be campaigning against her while she's campaigning -- >> the general election campaign from your perspective starts today. >> essentially it started. yeah. started today. started actually three months ago when i hit her pretty hard and she went down -- >> your tone, supposedly more presidential or will you really go after her? >> look, you know, i went to the
best school, i'm a smart person, i did well, you know, i am who i am. i don't like to change. a lot is going to depend on how they treat me. if they treat me on a certain level, i'm not looking to -- you've seen -- i don't like hitting people first, i don't know how -- i always felt that i'm better, like certain boxers, they're better counterpunchers. i've been very successful. i've only been doing it for ten months. >> what does that say? fasten your seat belt it going to be a bumpy ride until november. here to discuss mark preston, cnn politics executive editor, cnn contributor bakari sellers. the path now clear for donald trump on a potential matchup you see. it is hillary clinton's 13%. do you think it will remain this way? >> i think that there is a lot of ground that we need to cover before we get to november. look, inherently if you look at the map and to believe what the
polls are now and historically, yeah, donald trump has a big hill he needs to climb, but this has been a very unconventional campaign and politics has been unconventional, not just this year but probably argue in the past decade. >> he says he's a counterpuncher, he said his strategy in the primary was to knock out his opponents to ridicule and demean them. do you think that same playbook will work against hillary clinton? >> i think it will work to his advantage. what worked in the primary that would work against hillary clinton is constantly being on offense, constantly dictating the tempo of the race, and making sure that all of his opponents were reacting to him. look, i think that draws a strong contrast against hillary clinton in the sense that where as he plays with a certain reckless abandon, hillary clinton is very cautious, very calculating. and i don't think that necessarily works when you have a general election matchup. you want to be the one that is setting the terms of the debate versus reacting to your opponent. it could work to his advantage. >> bakari, hillary clinton, she
said she -- donald trump is a loose cannon. doesn't think that's going to play well. let's listen to more and then we'll discuss. >> donald trump has said it is okay for other countries to get nuclear weapons. i think that's just downright dangero dangerous. he said wages are too high. i think we need to have a raise for the american people. raise the minimum wage, get wages back going back up. i think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is, you know, just beyond anything that i could imagine. i think most women can imagine. >> he did walk that back. >> he's a loose cannon. i mean, he's somebody who has said so many things, and i'm sure he'll be scrambling and his advisers will be scrambling, but he's already said all of these things. >> is that a peek at the clinton playbook. >> i think it is. one thing you saw her do was something that republican candidates didn't have, the formidable network to do, define donald trump. and she's going out and called
him repeatedly today a loose cannon, a loose cannon, a loose cannon. you'll start to hear that more and more. but donald trump to win a general election, in the republican primary, donald trump got 10 million votes. that's a small microcosm of what he needs to be president of the united states. barack obama got 66 million votes to be the president. so this fly by night, fly by the seat of his pants, in interviews, that's not going to work in a general election. there is going to have to be some there there. he'll have to have a ground game. and he'll have to focus on data. >> the thing i'll be watching is how long is she a disciplined candidate trying to keep him in that frame of being a loose cannon. the other part of it is, she can -- she tends to look programmatic when she's saying it, where as donald trump looks like a master brander when he's putting his opponents -- that is the dynamic i want to watch first few steps around the ring with these two. >> it is worth noting too, bakari had a good point, donald
trump doing a fly by night, television shows, basically running a communications presidential campaign. basically media. however, he's now plugging into the republican national committee, which that's all they do, they raise money, they build a program, and they do have field staff in the 50 states. he is now going to plug into that. >> to her peril, she underestimates donald trump, which a lot of people have. is she underestimating him? >> i don't think she is. right now, the campaign has sta staff. they already invested in ohio, virginia and florida. and they actually have ad buys ready to go out june 7th after california. there is no underestimating donald trump. in fact, the game is set. whether or not donald trump can play this game is something totally different. >> one thing i would say too is that clinton campaign has a history of warring camps inside it. from the get go, from this day forward, they can't have any -- they can't have any of that, you know, dissension inside the camp.
>> can we talk, i'm sure you saw the polls. let's talk about the issues. in a new poll, hillary clinton beats trump on terrorism, education, health care, every issue except the most important one, which is the economy. that's the most important one to 88% of voters. is that a red flag for the clinton campaign, mark? >> no, i mean, listen, i think, listen, i think we all agree as we sit here at the table that donald trump is somebody who is an anomaly. we don't understand what his appeal is, but we do know he does have appeal and it is magnetic in many ways, right? i do think that the clinton campaign is not going to underestimate him. and i do think they're going to try to define him, try to knock him out in the first round and not try to go to the 12th round. >> is this campaign going to be about issues? >> i think it will be to a certain point. there will be gamesmanship. you have hillary clinton versus the loose cannon. we know that. one of the things that the democratic party has that republican party does not is you've seen elizabeth warren come out and say, we're going to
beat back donald trump, you have barack obama and michelle obama, bernie sanders, you'll have this coalescing, momentum going forward and i'm not sure when you have 41 and 43 sitting at home, mitt romney in utah, i'm not sure that the republican party is going to have enough to coalesce around a loose cannon. >> trump has done best during this campaign when it is less about issues, not rolling out white papers, giving policy speeches and more about attributes. and the big attribute he wants this race to come down to is who understands people like you? who do you relate to? i think it is very tough for hillary clinton to answer that affirmatively. that's going to be where donald trump goes during this campaign. >> one attribute she does have in her favor and we have been debating this, the electorate is changing, the electorate is becoming brown, but also women, female voters are the number one electorate and we have not had an opportunity to fully vet and discuss the fact that it is very popular to have the first female president in the history of this country. you can call it playing a
woman's card all you want, she raised $3 million on that alone. that is a fact of the matter and people appreciate that. >> is indiana an indicator? it was 50/50 between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. >> i don't think one state defines it. that is the achilles heel, women is donald trump's achilles heel. the fact he tried to downplay the fact she was playing the woman's card, who cares. that's not offensive. it is not offensive to say you're playing the women's card. playing the race card, then you start to walk down a different road and people react differently to that. >> he will still try to use that saying she's playing the women's card, she hasn't been good to women. >> no doubt. >> as kevin noknows, the way barack obama got there is by female voters and voters of color. if donald trump can't expand his base, it is going to be a long road. >> that's for women. both -- look at their likability or unfavorable numbers.
56% of voters have a negative view of trump, versus 49% for hillary clinton. how does that play out? >> this is where republicans look at and say, you know, donald trump has the historically -- the highest historically negative ratings of any major party nominee. that would have belonged to hillary clinton if we nominated anybody else but we didn't. that's one big thing that many republicans will rue during this campaign. >> people are fretting like ron johnson, pat toomey, john mccain, these people who are running in the senate races where you have such a anchor, donald trump is an anchor on the republican party. he also happens to be the standard bearer. >> he's bloodied so many opponents you're talking about. john mccain is not an opponent, but so many people in the party have concerns about him. how does he -- how do they coalesce, how does he unite? >> there is going to be some folks that are party folks and say let's get behind donald trump for it is good for the party and a segment who will say, you know what, i'm not
going to vote for him and maybe kevin you can speak to that. >> is that going to happen? >> i think there is nothing that unites a party like a common opposition, and i think more and more you'll see republicans say, well, anybody but hillary clinton. i think one of thether things he'll do, he'll start to pick very popular issues that will rally a lot of conservatives around him. whether that is national security, and what happened with the last eight years, the economy, you name it, he's going to try and unite some of the folks by finding those common interests. >> kevin, bakari, mark. thank you, guys, i appreciate it. donald trump is the -- is in the market for a running mate, but will his top picks turn him down?
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now that he's the gop presumptive nominee, donald trump is considering vice presidential candidates. that was fast. current holder of that office weighing in today. >> any comments about -- any regrets about being in the race? >> i'm anticipating he'll ask me to be vice president. i have nothing serious to say. >> i want to bring in now matt lewis, senior contributor to the daily caller and author of too dumb to fail, john philips, talk radio host, and republican
strategist kelly ann conway. good to have all of you here. i said that was fast. not as fast as ted cruz. he had picked his already. john, i'll start with you. trump/biden ticket? >> yeah, that would be the tourret's ticket. you used to think, if you're from the northeast, you had to have a southerner or someone from the west coast to balance the ticket out. and bill clinton said, no, i'm going to pick a southerner with a very similar political profile to me because you want to reinforce an image, reinforce the product that you're selling. i think donald trump should do the same thing. he needs to go in and pick an outsider, pick someone who doesn't come from the beltway. >> so no kasich? >> yeah, i would go with a general or maybe a defense secretary bob gates i think would help alleviate a lot of the fears of establishment republicans. i think that would also help him
with the moderates, help him with people in the middle, show someone who hasn't drawn blood so far in the campaign, someone who has been out of the fray. i think that would probably be the best choice for him. >> kelly ann, that will not be so easy. people are afraid of being tainted with -- as hillary clinton said, he's a loose cannon, people don't know him politically, doesn't have a track record. they may be afraid to be associated with him. this may not be an easy pick for him. >> sounds like donald trump himself disagrees with john philips in that he said he needs an insider, he needs a seasoned politician who can help him get the legislation passed. >> you think kasich might be a good pick? >> maybe, but i also think that you never know what you're going to say until you're actually asked the question. and newt gingrich put it best last week, which is when you're asked to serve at that level of government, the highest echelon as vice president, then it is very difficult to say no to that job. i do think if you picked a governor, other governors would say, okay, well, one of our own is there now. and i think he should recognize that there are people out there,
don, and gentlemen, who instead of backing on the glass and stomping that they're upset about, maybe they want to improve from the inside. instead of complaining about it, try to get on the inside as the vice president and as an adviser and change what you think is wrong. >> matt lewis, you say a vp pick is one of the most important decisions a candidate makes. listen to what donald trump said today in what he is looking for in a running mate? >> they have to be a good president, potentially have to be a good president. that's the number one thing. >> that's the most important fact. you need someone, god forbid -- >> there for that reason primarily. i would want someone that would help me from a legislative standpoint, getting things passed through senate, through congress, and to me that's why i think probably in terms of vice president i'm going to go the political route. i don't need the business route. i got that covered. >> sounds like he's similar to what kelly ann is saying, an anti-establishment candidate who wants a establishment vp. is it going to work? >> i think it is an important
thing. you get three opportunities basically in a general election that everybody pays attention to, convention, the debate, and then the running mate selection. the running mate selection is actually a governing decision, that's why it is maybe the most important, but then it is also a political decision. and so this is trump's big opportunity to mend fences, to send a signal, if he wants to solve the never trump problem, he goes -- maybe picks rubio. wants to win ohio, he goes john kasich. if he wants to get cover to attack hillary clinton, maybe he picks a woman. i think that what he really needs is gravitas and double down on the outsider image. if you can reinforce the brand as an outside, i think that's the sweet spot for him. >> you said a woman. nikki haley everyone thinks would be perfect. she said her plate is full and other women are saying, i don't have the time now.
so i'll ask the question again, do you think he'll have a hard time finding a running mate? >> no, i don't. women are the original multitaskers. i think people don't like to answer hypothetical questions. you don't want to answer a hypothetical question. and, look, i think before he starts picking vps, i would imagine he and his team are talking to the rnc, as the nominee he'll get their data, which is huge, resources, field staff, ground team, he'll start to hire people out in the states. that's even more important right now to get the fundamentals he's been lacking in place. >> we established that. this is the first night i said, since i've introduced you, i haven't said you're a ted cruz supporter, right? ted cruz dropped out. are you and other cruz supporters go heing to rally ard donald trump. >> i'm still a ted cruz supporter. >> but he's out. >> he is out, but he deserves the mantle this week of the person who unified the party the most by avoiding the contested convention, by not fracturing the gop all the way to
cleveland. >> are you going to support donald trump? >> i don't know -- i can't speak for senator cruz and i respect his timeline and whatever his decision ends up being, but his wife was attacked, his father was attacked yesterday morning, so, you know, these are not flesh wounds, they're fresh wounds. for me, i'm in the never hillary camp. so i'm for never hillary. and the most liberal -- the most liberal president in my lifetime outside of president obama has been richard nixon, but if i could have voted in 1968 or '72, i wouldn't have gone for mcgovern. so i think people just saying i can never support him, even if he's a republican nominee should rethink how detrimental to the conservative movement and this country hillary clinton presidency would be. >> john, we'll get you into the next block. don't go anywhere. we'll continue our discussion. a model's hair is the ultimate test for care.
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liberated like the breakup chick in gretchen wilson song. >> some people have their feelings hurt and being drama queens on twitter when up late at night. give it time. the more that donald trump goes after hillary clinton, the more he finds a common enemy with these people, and the more it becomes a traditional republican versus democratic race, a lot of these upset republicans right now are going to come back in the tent because there is nowhere for them to go. if you live in atlanta and fly delta because it is the only option. and right now if you're a republican, you may be upset, you may not love donald trump, you may not even like him, but guess what, he's the only option and if you don't go with donald trump in the general, you're going to be looking at president hillary clinton. >> you didn't like the term drama queen. >> i didn't like that at all. i think that's no way to actually coalesce and get people to unify around donald trump or even not fracture the whole republican party. i know steve deace very well. he's an insightful writer.
i commend to your viewers, there is a piece he wrote just today called the nine thing i learned from the cruz campaign. very influential talk show host. but many people feel that way, never means never, and until they see donald trump giving a little bit more robustness to what they consider to be conservative issues -- conservative positions on issues, it is going to take a long time. plus, many of us are personal friends of ted and heidi cruz and there have been hurtful, and insulting things and i hope when donald trump said he regretted or wish he hadn't done the retweet of the heidi cruz picture, we hear that like lyin' ted, you got to coalesce the party. cruz got out. he's done his part to not fracture the gop. >> isn't that the definition of being dramatic, if my guy doesn't win, i'm taking my toys and going home? >> i support the nominee who looks like it will be donald
trump. and i had to swallow plenty of nonconservative nominees in my lifetime. but you get on board, and you get on board if you want to stop hillary clinton's corrosive policies. and i'm not in the camp of these people saying hillary clinton will win at running away. i don't know she knows what to do with donald trump. calling him a loose cannon will probably enflame him. >> what about the people who said they can't swallow the prospect of donald trump as president, this talk of a third party candidate. do you think that ends now with donald trump or keeps going? >> i think it keeps going, but it doesn't matter. we could hold a meeting of the true never trump, never trump supporters in a phone booth within two months. the people who are going to be the real never trump people are people who are deeply committed about concerned about conservative philosophy, ideology, esoteric things like the constitution. unfortunately, most americans are not there. they're worried about people taking their jobs, worried about
china ripping us off and trade imbalances. that is where i think most conservatives are, and most americans. so maybe it is a bad thing. but i don't know -- i think the most sort of principled and philosophically, you know, focused people are just happen to have, like, talk radio shows and -- >> there is another group, there is another group, the mccain and romney advisers who said maybe they'll vote for hillary, won't support trump, they're not the constitutional conservatives that -- >> that's like 250 people. that's like 250 people. >> this is beneath me to vote for donald trump and i hope they consider that too because i respect governor mitt romney and ann romney tremendously, i appreciate their service to this nation, but a lot of us had to swallow hard to have the guy with romney care run against obamacare. >> but it is a character issue with donald trump and that's the difference. mitt romney and john mccain were
philosophically not conservative enough for my taste but we never questioned their character, their judgment. >> it was a strength for them. >> it is not a strength for donald. >> kelly ann brought this up earlier, loose cannon thing. hillary clinton has been referring to him as a loose cannon. >> anderson, i've seen the presidency up close from two different perspectives and i think i know what it takes. and i don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like donald trump running our country. donald trump said it is okay for other countries to get nuclear weapons, i think that's just yun right dangerous. he said wages are too high. i think we need to have a raise for the american people. raise the minimum wage. get wages back going back up. i think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is, you know, just beyond anything that i could imagine. i think most women can imagine. >> john, your reaction? >> well, it was a great
interview that anderson conducted. if you look the transcripts, the line of attack hillary clinton is taking on donald trump and saw the words and didn't have her name on it, this could have been an interview that jeb bush the media. she referenced her family dynasty and public policy achievements, that they committed decades ago. and i just don't think that going in that direction, questioning his temperament, political pedigree, i don't think that will be effective. that's what didn't work for jeb, deposit wo didn't work for the other republicans and repeating the same mistakes. i think donald trump will be a much stronger candidate in general than people give him credit for right now. >> matt? >> i agree. look if you look at this race, and if you look at it right now in the very beginning and you say, look, it is about demographics, who can win women, who can win hispanics, this state or that state, then i think you bet on hillary.
but if you look at it from a messaging standpoint, who is the candidate who is inspirational, the one who is the revolutionary, the insurgent, versus who represents the status quo and the establishment, i think it is advantage donald trump. i think there is a -- something that is happening out there in america, something afoot, an anti-establishment zeitgeist, not exclusive to the republican primary. it is out there and hillary is a standard issue politician and that's what we just saw in that interview. >> thank you very much. >> hillary is the democrat's nixon. >> thank you very much, i appreciate it. we come right back, looks like the never trump movement has run out of gas. who is going to get their vote?
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here is something we all learned from this campaign. be careful how you use the word never as in never trump, just might come back to haunt you. >> donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee. period. >> when i am firmly convinced of is that donald trump will not be our nominee. >> i believe donald trump will not be the nominee. >> donald trump will never be the nominee of the party of lincoln and reagan.
>> donald trump, i don't believe, is going to be the party's nominee. >> donald trump will not be the nominee. >> he's leading right now. >> donald trump will not be the nominee. >> will you support him as the nominee? >> donald trump will not be the nominee. >> joining me now, philip kline, senior writer for the washington examiner and jamie widesteen, dail editor of the daily caller. we heard all the republicans say trump will never be the nominee. and here we are, last man standing, you tweeted this out, a photo, showing you officially deregistered as a republican. why is that? >> well, i'm not a professional republican. i'm a journalist, who happens to have conservative views. and the republican party to me is just a tool to advance those views in the sense that they're more likely to advance conservative ideas than the democratic party.
however, in donald trump, there is somebody who doesn't accept any -- who doesn't share those views. and who is displayed an unfitness for office, an unseriousness about policy, and who has exploited racism and sexism and enflamed it. and so the republican party wants to go in that direction, by nominating trump, they're certainly entitled to, but i don't want to be along for the ride. >> why is it working for him then? he's the nominee now. >> clearly it was not disqualifying for the republican electorate, which has embraced him, but it is disqualifying for me. >> okay. jamie, you weren't quite as nice as deregistering as a republican because your latest piece in the daily call, you said, in a white house race between hillary clinton and donald trump, i prefer clinton, just as i prefer
malaria to ebola. in most cases, malaria is curable, ebola is more often deadly. that is not a pretty picture. you're a long -- life-long conservative. would you vote for hillary clinton over donald trump? >> usually when you compare someone to political malaria, it is not a compliment. but in this case, it is better than being political ebola. that's for several reasons. the first is i think he's an authoritarian. there is a chance, maybe a small chance, he would want to become an honest to god dictator. he has no -- very little knowledge of and less abiding respect for our constitutional system. he praises dictators all the time as if he aspires to be them. the very risk there is any chance, 5%, 10% is enough to make it -- i would never support him for president. but i'll take it a step further. you know, he's no conservative. neither is hillary clinton. terrible on domestic policy, her entire career, probably not a single issue i agree with. she's never proposed a 45%
tariff on chinese goods coming into the united states, which may be the single worst economic proposal proposed during this election season that would be economic catastrophe. her foreign policy, hillary clinton's, abysmal. she's probably single-handedly responsible for the libya invasion. that was a disaster. unlike donald trump, she hasn't called for removing america's military infrastructure, national security infrastructure that is built up since world war ii, which once removed, moving military bases from japan and south korea can't be easily rebuilt. so given those two options, and i believe you should vote in election, you have to choose between who is there and without any third party candidate that i could vote for who would be a serious candidate, i would have to cast my ballot for hillary clinton, which is amazing i'm telling you this over the republican nominee who is donald trump. >> i'm shocked you're actually saying it. i want to ask -- >> so am i, believe me. >> i want to follow it with this then, dana bash spoke with the
never trump supporter erick erickson, he wants to lay out the ground work for another candidate to run against donald trump and clinton's names are already being floated. donald trump and clinton, names being floated. would you both support a conservative challenger to trump, even if that means essentially throwing away the 2016 election? philip, you first? >> i would consider voting for a third party challenger. i don't know who that person is. but i would consider that if that option presented itself. >> you would. even if it means throwing away the election? basically giving it to a democrat. >> i mean, i just don't think that -- i know that some people try it say that, that if you vote for a third party, it is the equivalent, i don't think that. i think that a vote in some sense is you giving your moral sanction to the candidate you're voting for. i could not in good conscience vote for hillary clinton. i could not in good conscience vote for donald trump. if there is a third party candidate compelling to me, i
would interest voting for that person. but i may not decide to vote. >> jamie? >> i hope there is a third party candidate that is a conservative third party candidate or better than those two who is a serious candidate, who can get enough percent to get on the debate stage. i would absolutely vote for that candidate. it may probably and most likely throw the election to hillary. but that would prevent donald trump and a small chance -- >> who would you put there? >> i could see ben sass, mitt romney, general james mattous. i could support any woman who is better than hillary clinton or donald trump, which is a very low bar. >> who would you put there? >> i don't know. i haven't given it enough thought. i'm not trying to sort of activate a third party. i'll leave that up to other people. >> okay. i would take a look, this is what the former white house secretary under george w. bush ari fleischer put out there on twitter. there is a lot about donald trump i don't like, but i'll vote for trump over hillary any
day. he's getting flack by conservatives who say he's capitulating. what do you think about the folks who are now changing their tune? >> i think that you're going to see a distinction between as i laid out in the beginning between professional republicans and people who are conservative. professional republicans that work in republican politics as a career and are interested in whoever the republican party nominates, they're going to support donald trump. or they're going to be more likely to than people who are mainly got into politics or got involved because of an ideological cause. and if the -- when the candidate doesn't represent that, then they're not going to get behind that person. so i think that that's the distinction that you're going to look for and you're going to see between conservative writers, conservative think tank people, conservative policy people, versus republican pollsters,
republican consultants, republican advertising folks. >> all right, that's all the time we have, thank you very much. i appreciate you joining me. philip kline and jamie weinstein, see you soon. a shot in the arm in indiana, but is bernie sanders helping donald trump by staying in the race? who are you? i'm vern, the orange money retirement rabbit from voya. vern from voya? yep, vern from voya. why are you orange? that's a little weird. really? that's the weird part in this scenario? look, orange money represents the money you put away for retirement. save a little here and there, and over time, your money could multiply. see? ah, ok. so, why are you orange? funny. see how voya can help you get organized at voya.com.
donald trump sealed the deal with republicans. on the democrats side, hillary clinton is not quite there yet. joining me now is bob beckel, author of "i should be dead, my life surviving politics, tv addiction" and ann rice and clay aiken, former congressional candidate. good to have all of you. i'll start with bob. the cantankerous one. bernie sanders, indiana upset, much needed shot in the arm. here he is at a rally in kentucky hours ago. listen to this. >> when we began this campaign, we were considered to be a fringe candidacy. well, last night we have won the 18th state of this campaign. and with your help, kentucky will be the 20th state we're going to win west virginia in between. >> so bob, he picked up 44 new
delegates in indiana and he's expected to do well in kentucky and also in west virginia. but what is the goal here, the math really is not in his favor, is it? >> it is not. i think what the goal is to get to the convention, as many people have been second place have done in the past, that is to get a platform fight that he thinks is necessary to have. i don't know what he's going to pull out, trade or whether it is health care, but i suspect what he wants is to have a floor fight and to win it. and i wouldn't be surprised by the way he would. but more importantly than that, people say people are going to support hillary clinton. the biggest issue is will sanders get out and take on donald trump? that would be the best thing that the clintons could hope for, that he goes out there, he can speak to trade, blue collar workers, young people. they need bernie sanders not just as voters, but him in donald trump's face. >> too good for donald trump, right, he tweeted this out, what a great evening we had, he writes, so interesting that sanders beat crooked hillary,
the dysfunctional system is totally rigged against him. is sanders actually helping donald trump by staying in the race? you think it is going to hurt hillary clinton the longer this goes on? >> i don't. i think it is a good thing that bernie sanders is staying in the race. i've said often that hillary clinton has been vetted on a national level for decades. but this is a different kind of vetting. we know she's already been through a presidential in 2008. this is to me still a cakewalk compared to what we saw in 2008. i know, don, you said, have you ever seen anything like this? yes, it was so much worse. she didn't get out until june. >> she admits that. >> exactly. >> she said she won nine of the last 12 contests, but things didn't change for her at all. >> and her supporters also said they wouldn't support barack obama and by the time august came around, those numbers started to turn around. >> he's still hitting her. >> a difference between them and 2008. the people -- the bernie sanders supporters are outsiders, the underdogs, the folks who are
fighting to have their voices heard. that group won in 2008. and so the establishment with hillary clinton was able to rally behind barack obama. >> do you want him to stay in the race? >> i do. for all the reasons that angela said, but i think hillary will have a challenge trying to get as we know get some of bernie sanders' people to come and vote for her. the longer bernie stays in the race, the more he keeps those people activated. i think there is a seamless transition at some point, whether at the convention, whether it be before the convention, or after the convention. there is going to be a more seamless transition if he doesn't step out and disappear for three months. >> that takes away his power, right? and ability to speak to the people. he needs 101% of delegates in order, if you do it mathematically, not a contested convention. he needs -- there it is. if he says the convention, you know what, bob, he says, so it is time for me to bow out, all of you people supporting me, i
think it is time for you to go and support hillary clinton, you think they'll do it? >> i think he will. one of the big nights will be bernie sanders will get a primetime speaking spot at that convention. he's earned it. at that point, he's going to say, i hope as very much like jesse jackson did for walter mondale, he was very strong in support of him. now, or he could go the other way. the way teddy kennedy did against jimmy carter, walked away from the stage. i suspected that bernie sanders to stay relevant himself, will give a very strong speech for hillary clinton and much about why you don't -- this country can't afford donald trump. he's the perfect spokesman, speaking to the same group of people in essence about jobs and trade and that sort of thing, he's very important to clinton. >> so if he doesn't do that, if he doesn't say, hey, listen, can the clinton camp run over the supporters without his help? >> i think it will be a challenge. i think she has -- she has the potential of bringing in someone like elizabeth warren or sherrod brown who would be able to speak to that group of people, but i don't know that hillary will be
able to do it on her own. she's not going to be able to change her message enough to convince those people. she's going to need a surrogate of some kind like bernie sanders. >> so if she were to do something on her own, or something to, you know, i guess sort of -- i don't know if capitulate is the right word or see if she's trying to be nice to him, what do you want to hear her say, nice to him and nice to the supporters. >> i think she's been doing it. in the past week, especially, she's been talking about how she wants him to stay in the race, her surrogates are encouraging him to stay in the race. i think she's going to have to speak it a little bit more of the issues. she hasn't talked as much about college loans as he has, he's talked about free college. she could probably hit a little bit harder on some of the issues important to his supporters. especially the young folks. >> that to me is interesting. i want to talk about the issues point first. i would argue that she has not only talked about issues, but has clear policy platforms where as bernie sanders platform is really pie in the sky. he's got a bill he introduced in
the senate, talking about free college, very clear that free state college would mean that you still may be accountable for room and board, all the partnerships with republican governors all over the country, they're tough. i think we shouldn't minimize the fact that she fought through some of this, but it is going to cost -- >> the college students are dreamers. people who are following -- the people who are following bernie are dreamers. they don't want to hear pragmatism. i think a lot of people are supporting bernie because he is dreaming and they know his north star. i totally agree hillary being pragmatic is important. i think she's going to have to figure out a way to thread a needle where she's being pragmatic. >> bob, quickly, i got to run, what happens to this bernie sanders revolution, speaking of dreamers, what happens after november. >> look, you have a contest eed campaign for presidency, you do polls and everybody says i won't support that person. it goes away.
they he got to run against a republican. the best recruiting tool for hillary clinton is donald trump. >> thank you, everyone. i appreciate it, good seeing you all. when we come back, the trump clinton war of words what the candidates said when they sat down with cnn today. >> i don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like donald trump running our country. >> she can't put it away. that's like a football team, can't get the ball over the line. i put it away. real is touching a ray.
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so you're looking live at the white house. just imagine it with donald trump living there. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. it is a picture that strikes fear in the heart of democrats and some republicans as well. hillary clinton says a presume tiff republican nominee is a loose cannon. what would a president donald trump really do in his first 100 days and what would a trump administration mean for the rest of the world? plus, chilling new details about the last days of ddicted to per did he reach out for help that came too late. i'll begin with john king at the magic wall for us. how do the numbers look for a trump and clinton matchup? >> donald trump says the general election is under way. hillary clinton in the lead by a healthy margin. but opportunities in our polling for donald trump.