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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  May 4, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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five years. peter bergen speaks to president obama and others key to the decision making. "we got him" airs friday on 360 here on cnn. that does it for us. thanks very much for watching. "cnn tonight" starts now. here's the one thing that you can say for sure about this campaign. you ain't seen nothing yet. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. donald trump's take-over of the gop marches on as john kasich drops out and the presumptive nominee sets his sights on hillary clinton. >> she can't put it away. that's like a football team, they can't get the ball over the line. i put it away. she can't put it away. >> clinton giving as good as she gets, preparing to take on the republicans' last man standing. >> i think he is a loose cannon, and loose cannons tend to misfire. >> if there's one thing the improbable rise of donald trump has taught us it's that anything can happen. well, probably not this, though. >> i'm participating --
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>> i want to begin tonight with donald trump and hillary clinton in their own words. tough talk from each of the candidates. hillary clinton sitting down exclusively with our very own anderson cooper and answering the question on everybody's mind. >> are you ready for donald trump? i mean he's already got an unflattering nickname for you. he's unlike any other candidate probably certainly you've ever run against, anybody you've seen in a long time. >> you know, anderson, i've seen the presidency up close from two different perspectives, and i think i know what it takes. and i don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like donald trump running our country. >> if he is a loose cannon, though, he's certainly willing to say things during a race against opponents, and we've seen this already. that a lot of candidates were not prepared for on the gop side. are you ready for that? >> well, i've sort of been in the arena for 25 years, and i think nearly everything that can
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be thrown at somebody in politics and public life has come my way. >> you feel like you know how to run against him? >> oh, absolutely. but i'm not running against him. i'm running my own campaign. i'm running to become president. >> donald trump going one-on-one with our very own wolf blitzer and promising to take the fight to hillary clinton. >> do you think the general election campaign has already started, you versus hillary clinton, that for all practical purposes, bernie sanders is out? >> well, i think what has happened, there's been a little flip, and i'm even surprised by it. i thought that i'd be going longer and she's be going shorter. she can't put it away. that's like a football team, they can't get the ball over the line. i put it away. she can't put it away. so i thought that i'd be out there and she'd be campaigning against me. i didn't realize. so, yeah, i'll be campaigning against her while she's campaigning -- >> the general election campaign from your perspective starts today. >> essentially it's started. yeah, it started today. it started actually three months ago when i hit her pretty hard, and she went down.
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>> and your tone, supposedly more presidential, or will you really go after her? >> look, you know, i went to the best school. i'm a smart person. i did well. you know, i am who i am. i don't like to change. a lot's going to depend on how they treat me. i mean if they treat me in a certain level, i'm not looking to do more -- you've seen i'm a counterpuncher more than anything else. i don't like hitting people first because i don't know how -- i guess i've always felt i'm better. like certain boxers, they're better counter punchers. i've been very successful. i've only been doing it for ten months. >> what does that say? fasten your seat belt. it's going to be a bumpy ride all the way until november. here to discuss, mark preston, cnn contributor bakari sellers, and religion strategist kevin madden. good to have you here. the path, mark, now clear for donald trump. but in a potential matchup, you see it's hillary clinton's, 13%. do you think it's going to remain this way? >> i still think there's a lot
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of ground that we need to cover before we get to november. look, inherently if you look at the map and you are to believe what the polls are right now and historically, yeah, donald trump has a big hill he needs to climb. but this has been a very unconventional campaign, and politics has been very unconventional not just this year, but you could argue probably in the past decade. >> he says he is a counter puncher. he says his strategy in the primaries was to knock out his opponents, to ridicule and demean them, to knock it out. do you think that's same play book is going to work against hillary clinton? >> i think it's going to work to his advantage. what worked in the primary is constantly being on offense, constantly dictating the tempo of the race and making sure that all of his opponents were reacting to him. look, i think that draws a really strong contrast against hillary clinton in the sense that whereas he plays with a certain reckless abandon, hillary clinton is very cautious. she's very calculating. and i don't think that necessarily works when you have a general election matchup. you want to be the one that is setting the terms of the debate
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versus reacting to your opponent. so it could work to his advantage. >> bakari, you heard hillary clinton say that donald trump is a loose cannon. she doesn't think that's going to play well. let's listen to a little bit more, and then we'll discuss. >> donald trump has said it's okay for other countries to get nuclear weapons. i think that's just downright dangerous. he has said wages are too high. i think we need to have a raise for the american people. raise the minimum wage. get wages back going up. i think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is, you know, just beyond anything that i can imagine. i think most women can imagine. >> he did walk that back. >> well, he's a loose cannon. i mean he's somebody who has said so many things, and i'm sure he'll be scrambling and his advisers will be scrambling. but he's already said all of these things. >> is that a peek at the clinton play book? >> i think it is. one of the things that you saw her do was something that republican candidates didn't
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have the formidable network to do, which is define donald trump. and she's going out and called him repeatedly today a loose cannon, a loose cannon. you'll start to hear that more and more. but donald trump, to win a general election, just to push back at kevin a little bit, in the republican primary, donald trump got 10 million votes. that is a very small microcosm of what he needs to be president of the united states. barack obama got 66 million votes to be the president. so this fly by night, this fly by the seat of his pants, that's not going to work in a general election. there's going to have to be some there there, he's gog have to begin to campaign in some of these states, have a ground game, which hillary clinton already has, and also focus on data, which we know democrats have a superior advantage. >> the thing i'll be watching is how long is she a disciplined candidate trying to keep him in that frame of being a loose cannon? the other part of it is she tends to look program attic when she's saying it whereas donald trump looks like a master brander. so that will be the dynamic i think i want to watch in the first few steps around the ring
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with these two. >> you know, it's worth noting too, bakari brings up a good point about donald trump doing this fly by night, calling in to television shows, basically running a communications presidential campaign. however, he is now plugging into the republican national committee, which that's all they do. they raise money. they build a program, and they do have field staff in the 50 states. he is now going to plug into that. >> but to her peril, she underestimates donald trump, which a lot of people have. >> i don't think she is. one of the things we have to look at is right now the campaign already has staff in virginia, north carolina, ohio, new hampshire, nev and florida. there is no underestimating donald trump. in fact, the game is set. now, whether or not donald trump can actually play this game is something totally different. >> one thing i would say, too, is that the clinton campaign has a history of warring camps inside it. from the get-go, from this day forward, they can't have any --
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they can't have any of that, you know, that dissension inside the camp if they're going to beat him. >> i'm sure you guys saw the polls. let's talk about the issues. in a new poll, clinton beats trump on handling terrorism, immigration, health care, education. every issue except the most important one, which is the economy, that's the most important one to 88% of voters. is that a red flag for the clinton campaign, mark? >> i mean, listen, i think we all agree as we sit here at the table that donald trump is somebody who is an anomaly. we don't quite understand what his appeal is, but we do know he does have appeal. and it's magnetic in many ways, right? so i do think that the clinton campaign is not going to underestimate him, and i do think they're going to try to define him now. they're going to try to knock him out in the first round and not try to go to the 12th round. >> is this campaign going to be about issues? >> i think it will be to a certain point. there's going to be games manship. you have hillary clinton versus the loose cannon. we already know that. the fact of the matter is one of
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the things that the democratic party has that the republican does not, is you've seen elizabeth warren come back and say we're going to beat back donald trump. you're going to have barack obama and michelle obama. at some point, you'll have bernie sanders. you'll have this momentum going forward, and i'm not sure when you have 41 and 43 sitting at home, when you have mitt romney hanging out in utah, i'm not sure the republican party is going to have enough to coalesce around a loose cannon. >> trump has done best when it's been less about issues, not rolling out white papers and giving policy speeches and it's been more about attribute. the big attribute he wants this race to come down is who understands people like you? who do you relate to? i think it's very tough for hillary clinton to answer that affirmatively. that's going to be where donald trump goes during this campaign. >> i was going to say one attribute that she does have in her favor and we've been debating this for the past two weeks. but the electorate is changing. the electorate in this country is becoming browner. but also, women, female voters are the number one electorate, and we have not had an
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opportunity to fully vet and discuss the fact it's very popular to have the first female president in the history of this country. you can call it playing a woman's card all you want. she raised $3 million on that alo alone. >> is indiana an conditioner becau -- indicator? >> i don't think one state defines it. bakari's right. that's his achilles' heel. women is donald trump's achilles' heel. the fact that he tried to down play the fact that she was playing the woman's card, who cares? that's not offensive. it's not offensive to say you're playing the woman card. playing the race card, you start to walk down a different road and people react differently to that. >> he will still try to use that, saying she's playing the woman's card. >> and as kevin knows, barack obama got to 332 electoral votes against mitt romney, and the way he got there was by female voters and he got there through voters of color. if donald trump can't expand his base, which he hasn't been able to prove himself to do, it's
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going to be a long road. >> that's for women, but look at their likability or unfavorable numbers, right, 56% of voters have a negative view of donald trump versus 49% for hillary clinton. how is that going to play out? >> this is where republicans will look and they'll say, you know, donald trump has the historically -- has the highest historically negative ratings of any major party nominee. that distinction would have belonged to hillary clinton if we had nominated anybody else, but we didn't. so that's one of the big things that i think many republicans are going to rue during this general election. >> that's where democrats get excited because you have people who are fretding like ron johnson, like john mccain. these people who are running in the senate races where you have such an anchor. donald trump is an anchor on the republican party. he just also happens to be the standard bearer. >> he has bloodied so many. how do they coalesce? how does he unite? >> there's going to be some folks that are party folks and
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they're going to say let's get behind donald trump because it's for the good of the party. then you're going to have a segment of republicans who are going to say, you know what, i'm not going to vote for him. maybe kevin you can speak to that. >> look, i think there's nothing that unites a party like a common opposition, and i think more and more you'll see the republicans say, well, anybody but hillary clinton. i think one of the other things he'll do, he'll start to pick very popular issues that will rally a lot of conservatives around them. whether that's national security and what happened with the last eight years, the economy, you name it, he's going to try and unite some of those folks by finding those common interests. >> kevin, bakari, and mark, thank you guys. i appreciate it. when we come right back, donald trump is in the market for a running mate, but will his top picks turn him down? bend me shape me, any way you want me
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now that he is the gop's presumptive nominee, donald trump is already considering vice presidential candidates. that was fast. the current holder of that office weighing in today. >> any comments about not being in the race? >> i'm anticipating he'll ask me to be vice president. i have nothing serious to say. >> i want to bring in now matt lewis, senior contributor to the
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daily caller and the author of "too dumb to fail." john phillips a talk radio host, and republican strategist kellyanne conway. good to have all of you here. i said that was fast, but not as fast as ted cruz. >> that's right. >> he had picked his already. so, john, i'll start with you. a trump/biden ticket? >> yeah, that would be the turrettes ticket, wouldn't it? i think that bill clinton is actually the guy that kind of changed the whole philosophy on picking a vice president in 1992. you used to think that if you're from the northeast, that you had to have a southerner or someone from the west coast to balance the ticket out. bill clinton said, no, i'm going to pick a southerner with a very similar political profile to me because you want to reinforce an image. you want to reinforce the product that you're selling. i think donald trump should do the same thing. i think he needs to go in and pick an outsider. pick someone who doesn't come from the beltway. >> so no kasich? >> yeah. i'd go with a general or maybe a
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defense secretary, bob gates, i think would help alleviate a lot of the fears of establishment republicans. i think that that would also help him with the moderates, help him with people in the middle. show someone who hasn't drawn blood so far in this campaign, someone who's been out of the fray. i think that would probably be the best choice for him. >> but, kellyanne, that's not going to be so easy because people are afraid of being tainted with -- you know, as hillary clinton says, he's a loose cannon. people don't know him politically. he doesn't have a track record. they may be afraid to be associated with him. this may not be an easy pick for him. >> it sounds like donald trump himself disagrees with john phillips in that he says he needs an insider. >> you think kasich might be a good pick? >> well, maybe. i also think that you never know what you're going to say until you're actually asked the question. and newt gingrich i think put it best last week, which is when you're asked to serve at that level of government, the highest echelon as vice president, then it's very difficult to say no to that job. i do think if he picked a
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governor, then other governors would say, okay, well, one of our own is there now. and i think he should recognize that there are people out there, don, gentlemen, instead of banging on the glass and stomping that they're upset about, maybe they want to improve it from the inside. instead of just complaining about it, try to get on the inside as the vice president or as an adviser and change what you think is wrong. >> matt lewis, you say that a v.p. pick is one of the most important decisions a candidate makes. i want you to listen to what donald trump said today about what he is looking for in a running mate. >> they have to be a great president, potentially have to be a great ppt. so that's always the number one. >> that is the most important factor. you need somebody potentially, got forbid -- >> they're there for that reason primarily. but i would want somebody that would help me from a legislative standpoint, getting things passed through senate, through congress, and to me that's why i think probably in terms of vice president, i'm going to go the political route. i don't need the business route. i've got that covered. >> it sounds like he's similar
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to what kellyanne is say, an antiestablishment candidate who wants an establishment v.p. is it going to work? >> i do think it's an important thing. you get three opportunities basically in a general election that everybody pays attention to. the convention, the debate, and then the running mate selection. the running mate selection is actually a governing decision. that's why it's maybe the most important. but then it's also a political decision. so this is trump's big opportunity to mend fences, to send a signal. i mean if he wants to solve the never trump problem, he goes -- maybe he picks rubio. if he wants to win ohio, he obviously goes john kasich. if he wants to get cover to attack hillary clinton, maybe he picks a woman. i think that what he really needs is gravitas, and i agree. double down on the outsider image. i don't think he should go with an insider. if you can get gravitas and reinforce that brand as an outsider, i think that's the sweet spot for him. >> you said a woman.
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nikki haley everyone thinks would be perfect. she's already said her plate is full, and other women are saying, i don't have the time right now. so i sask the question again. do you think he's going to have a hard time finding a running mate? >> no, i don't actually. women are the original multitaskers. i think people don't like to answer hypothetical questions. i think that's fair that you don't want to answer a hypothetical question. i think before he starts picking v.p.s, i imagine he and his team are talking to the rnc. as the nominee, he'll get their data, which is huge. he'll get the resources, their field staff, their ground team. he'll start to hire people out in the states. that's even more important right now to get those fundamentals that he's been lacking in place. >> we've established that. this is the first night i've said since i i've introduced you, i haven't said you're a ted cruz supporter, right? because ted cruz dropped out. are you and other cruz supporters going to rally around donald trump? >> i am still a ted cruz supporter. i'm so proud of the campaign he ran. i thought it was masterful. >> but he's out. >> he's out. by the way he deserves the
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mantle this week of the person who unified the party the most by avoiding this contested convention, by not -- >> are you going to support donald trump? yes, yes. >> yes i will. >> do you think he will. >> i don't know. his wife was attacked. his father was attacked yesterday morning. these are not flesh wounds. they're fresh wounds. for me, i'm in the never hillary camp, so i'm for never hillary. look, the most liberal president in my lifetime outside of president obama has been richard nixon, but if i could have voted in 1968 or 1972, i wouldn't have gone for mcgovern, for example. so i think people saying i could never support him even though he's the republican nominee, should rethink how detriment 58 to the conservative movement a hillary clinton presidency would be. >> we'll get you into the next block. don't go anywhere. we'll continue our discussion.
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♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. donald trump is now the last man standing in the republican race with john kasich dropping out just today. back now with matt lewis, john phillips, and also kellyanne conway. john, what does the campaign and the party, what are they go to do? since leaving the gop, i feel liberated like the breakup chick
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in a gretchen wilson song. it's like soul cleansing. >> some people will still have they feelings hurt and they're being drama queens on twitter when they're up late at night. i say just give it time. the more that donald trump goes after hillary clinton, the more he finds a common enemy with these people and the more it becomes a traditional republican versus democratic race, a lot of these upset republicans right now are going to come back in the tent because there's nowhere for them to go. if you live in atlanta, you fly delta because it's the only option. right now, if you're a republican, you may be upset. you may not love donald trump. you may not even like him. but guess what? he's the only option. and if you don't go with donald trump in the general, then you're going to being looking at president hillary clinton. >> you didn't like the term drama queen? >> i didn't like that at all. i don't think that's a way to get people to coalesce and unite around donald trump. i know c. jaz very well.
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he's incredibly insightful writer. there's something called the nine things i learned from the cruz campaign. but there are many people who feel that way, feel that never means never. and until they see donald trump giving a little bit more robustness to what they consider to be conservative positions on issues, it's going to take a long time. plus, you know, many of us are personal friends of ted and heidi cruz, and there have been some really hurtful gratuitous personal insulting things. i hope that when donald trump said he had regretted or wish he hadn't re-tweeted the heidi cruz picture, we hear more of that like the j.f.k. assassination conspiracy or like lyin' ted. you've got to coalesce the party now. cruz got out. he's done his part to not fracture the gop. >> isn't that the definition of being dramatic, though, if you say if my guy doesn't win, i'm taking my toys and going home? >> oh, you're asking me? i mean i support the nominee, who looks like it's going to be
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donald trump. i absolutely -- look, i've had to swallow plenty of non-conservative nominees in my lifetime. but you get on board, and you get on board if you want to stop hillary clinton's kror oesive policies. i'm also not in the camp of people saying hillary clinton will win it run away. i don't think she know what's to do with donald trump. calling him a loose cannon will probably -- >> what about the people who can't swallow the prospect of donald trump as president, this talk of a third-party candidate? do you think that ends now with donald trump, or do you think it keeps going? >> i think it keeps going, but it doesn't matter. we could hold a meeting of the true never-trump supporters in a phone booth, i bet you, within two months. the people who are going to be the real never-trump people are people who are, you know, deeply committed about -- concerned about conservative philosophy, ideology, esoteric things like the constitution. unfortunately, most americans are not there.
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they're worried about people taking their jobs. they're worried about china ripping us off in trade imbalances. i mean that is where i think most conservatives are and most americans. so maybe it's a bad thing, but i don't know -- i think that the most sort of principled and philosophically focused people are -- just happen to have like talk radio shows and -- >> but there's another group, matt. it's the mccain and romney advisers who have publicly said now maybe they'll vote for hillary. they won't support trump. they're not the constitutional conservatives. those are the high-minded -- >> that's like 250 people. >> this is beneath me to vote for donald trump. i hope they reconsider that too because, look, i respect governor mitt romney and ann romney tremendously. i appreciate their service to this nation. a lot of us had to swallow hard to have the guy with romney care run against obamacare. >> but it's a character -- but it's a character issue with donald trump, and that's the difference. you know, mitt romney -- >> i get that. >> mitt romney and john mccain
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were fill sophly not conservative enough for my taste, but we never really questioned their character, their judgment. >> it was a strength for them. >> yes, and it's not a strength for donald trump. >> john, listen, kellyanne brought this up earlier, the loose cannon thing. hillary clinton has been referring to him as a loose cannon. here's what she told anderson cooper just today. >> you know, anderson, i've seen the presidency up close from two different perspectives, and i think i know what it takes. and i don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like donald trump running our country. you know, donald trump has said it's okay for other countries to get nuclear weapons. i think that's just downright dangerous. he has said wages are too high. i think we need to have a raise for the american people. raise the minimum wage. get wages back going up. i think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is, you know, just beyond anything that i could imagine. i think most women can imagine. >> john, your reaction?
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>> well, it was a great interview that anderson cooper conducted. what i thought was interesting is if you look at the transcript, you look at the line of attack that hillary clinton is taking on donald trump and you just saw the words and you didn't have her name on it, this could have been an interview that jeb bush gave. her criticisms were directed at the media for not asking tough enough questions. that's exactly what jeb did. she referenced her family die nasty and public policy achievements, that they committed decades ago. and i just don't think that going in that direction, questioning his temperament, questioning his political pedigree, i don't think that's going to be offensive. that's what didn't work for jeb. that's what didn't work for the other republicans, and she's repeating these same mistakes. so i think that donald trump is going to be a much stronger candidate in the general than people are giving him credit for right now. >> matt? >> i totally agree. look, if you look at this race and if you look at it right now in the very beginning and you say, look, it's about demographics, who can win women, who can win hispanics, who can
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win this state or that state, then i think you bet on hillary. but if you look at it from a messaging standpoint, who is the candidate who is inspirational? who is the candidate who is the revolutionary, the insurgent versus who represents the status quo and the establishment? i think it's advantage donald trump. look, i think there is -- something is happening out there in america. something is afoot. there's an antiestablishment anxiety geist, and i don't think it's exclusive to the republican primary. i think it's out there, and shillry is a standard issue politician, and that's what we just saw in that interview. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> hillary is the democrats' nixon. >> thank you very much. when we come back, it looks like the never trump movement has officially run out of gas, so who's going to get their votes? [ cheering ]
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thank you! thank you! what a week! we sat down, we kicked back, and we watched tv! [ cheering ] this win is just the beginning! it doesn't end here. because your laundry can wait! keep those sweatpants on! order another pizza! and watch on! [ cheering ] don't wait a whole year for xfinity watchathon week to return. upgrade now to add the premium channel of your choice so you can keep watching. call or go online today. here's something we've all lerned from this campaign. be careful how you use the word "never," as in never trump. it might just come back to haunt you. >> donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee, period. >> what i am firmly convinced of is that donald trump will not be our nominee. >> i believe that donald trump will not be the nominee. >> donald trump will never be
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the nominee of the party of lincoln and reagan. >> donald trump, i don't believe, is going to be the party's nominee. >> donald trump will not be the nominee. >> he's leading right now. >> donald trump will not be the nominee. >> will you support him as the nominee? >> donald trump will not be the nominee. >> joining me now, phillip klein, senior writer for the washington examiner, and jamie weinstein, senior editor of the daily caller. a lot of people were wrong. thanks for joining me. phillip, you first. we just heard all those republicans say that trump is never going to be the nominee. yet here we are. he's the last man standing. you tweeted this out, a photo, showing that you officially deregistered as a republican. why is that? >> well, i'm not a professional republican. i'm a journalist who happens to have conservative views, and the republican party, to me, is just a tool to advance those views in the sense that they're more likely to advance conservative
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ideas than the democratic party. however, in donald trump, there is somebody who doesn't accept any of the -- who doesn't share those views and who has displayed an unfitness for office, an unseriousness about policy, and who has exploited racism and sexism and inflamed it. and so the republican party wants to go in that direction by nominating trump. they're certainly entitled to, but i don't want to get -- be along for the ride. >> why is it working for him, then? all those things you said. in spite of all those things, it's still working. he is the nominee now. >> clearly it was not disqualifying for the republican electorate, which has embraced him. but it is disqualifying for me. >> okay. jamie, you weren't quite as nice as just deregistering as a republican because your latest piece in the daily caller, you
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said in a white house rice between donald trump and clinton, i prefer clinton just as i'd prefer malaria to ebola. you're a life-long conservative. would you vote for hillary clinton over donald trump? >> usually when you compare someone to political malaria, it's not a compliment. but in this case i guess it's better than being political ebola, which is what i think donald trump is. that's for several reasons. the first is i think he's an authoritarian. i think there's a chance, maybe a small chance, that he would want to become an honest to god dictator. he has very little knowledge of and less abiding respect for our constitutional system. he praises dictators all the time as if he aspires to be them. the very risk that there's any chance, 5%, 10%, is enough to make it that i would never support him for president. but i'll take it a step further. you know, he's no conservative. neither is hillary clinton. she's been terrible on domestic policy her entire career.
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there's probably not a single issue i agree with, but she's never proposed a 45% tariff on chinese goods. it would be economic catastrophe. her foreign policy, hillary clinton's, has been abysmal. she's probably single handlely responsible for the libya invasion she pushed forward. that was a disaster. but unlike donald trump, she hasn't called for basically removing america's military infrastructure, national security infrastructure that it's bullet up since world war ii, which once removed, removing the military bases from japan and south korea can't be easily rebuilt. so given those two options, and i believe you should vote in an election you have to choose between who is there. and without any third-party candidate that i could vote for who would be a serious candidate, i would have to cast my ballot for hillary clinton, which is amazing that i'm telling you this, over the republican nominee, who is donald trump. >> i am shocked that you're actually saying it. so i want to --
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>> so am i. believe me. >> i want to follow up with this, then. our dana bash spoke with the never trump supporter eric irachesi ericson. he wants to lay out another candidate. the names are already being floated. would you both support a conservative challenger to trump even if that means essentially throwing away this 2016 election? phillip, you first? >> i would consider voting for a third-party challenger. obviously i don't know who that person is, but i would consider that if that option presented itself. >> you would? even if it means throwing away the election? basically giving it to a democrat. >> i mean i just don't think that -- i know that some people try to say that, that if you vote for a third party, it's the equivalent. i don't think that. i think that a vote in some sense is you giving your mortal sanction to the candidate you're voting for. so i could not in good conscience vote for hillary clinton. i could not in good conscience vote for donald trump. if there's a third-party
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candidate who is compelling to me, i would consider voting for that person. bu but i may not decide to vote. >> jamie? >> i hope there is a third party candidate that is a conservative third party candidate or at least better than those two, who is a serious candidate who can get enough% to at least get on the debate stage. i would absolutely vote for that candidate. it may probably and most likely throw the election to hillary, but at least that would prevent donald trump and there would be a small chance -- >> who would you put there? >> i could see ben sasse, i could see mitt romney. i could support anyone who is better than, you know, hillary clinton or donald trump, which is a very low bar. >> philip, who would you put there? i don't know. i mean i haven't given it enough thought. i'm not trying to sort of activate a third party. i'll leave that up to other people. >> okay. i want you to take a look. this is the former white house secretary under george w. bush, ari fleischer, put out there. this is on twitter. he said there's a lot about
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donald trump that i don't like but i'll vote for trump over hillary any day. he's getting a lot of flack by conservatives who are saying seize essentially capitulating. what do you think about folks who are now changing their tune? >> i think you're going to see a distinction between, as i laid out in the beginning, between professional republicans and people who are conservative. professional republicans that work in republican politics as a career and are interested in whoever the republican party nominates, they're going to support donald trump, or they're going to be more likely to than people who mainly got into politics or got involved because of an ideological cause. and when the candidate doesn't represent that, then they're not going to get behind that person. so i think that that's the distinction that you're going to look for and you're going to see between conservative writers, conservative think tank people, conservative policy people
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versus republican pollsters, republican consultants, republican advertising folks. >> all right. that's all the time we have. thank you very much, gentlemen. i appreciate you joining me. philip klein and jamie weinstein, i'll see you soon. when we come back, bernie sanders campaign gets a shot in the arm in indiana. but is he actually helping donald trump by staying in the race?
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♪ safe driver ♪ accident-free ♪ everybody put your flaps in the air for me ♪ donald trump has sealed the deal with the republicans, but on the democrats' side, hillary clinton is not quite there yet. joining me now is bob beckel, and angela rye, cnn political commentator. clay aiken is here, former congressional candidate. good to have all of you. i'm going to start with bob, the cantankerous one. bernie sanders, indiana was a much needed shot in the arm. here he is at a rally in kentucky just hours ago. >> when we began this campaign, we were considered to be a fringe candidacy. well, last night we have won the 18th state of this campaign. and with your help, kentucky will be the 20th state.
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we're going to win west virginia in between. >> so, bob, he picked up 44 new delegates in indiana, and he is expected to do well in kentucky, also in west virginia. but i mean what's the goal here? the math really is not in his favor, is it? >> no, it's not. i think what the goal is is to get to the convention. as many people who have been in second place have done in the past and that is to get a platform fight that he thinks is necessary to have. i don't know what he's going to pull out, whether it's trade or health care, but i suspect that what he wants is to have a floor fight and to win it. and i wouldn't be surprised, by the way, that he would. but more importantly than that, people say is his people going to support hillary clinton? the biggest issue here is will sanders get out and take on donald trump? that would be the best thing that the clintons could hope for, that he goes out there because he can speak to those people. he can speak to trade, blue collar workers, young people. they desperately need bernie sanders, not just his voters but him in donald trump's face. >> speaking of donald trump, he
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tweeted this out. he said what a greet evening we had. so interesting that sanders beat crooked hillary. the dysfunctional system is totally rigged against him. is sanders actually helping donald trump by staying in the race? you think it's going to hurt hillary clinton the longer this goes on? >> i don't. i actually think it's a good thing that bernie sanders is staying in the race. i've said it often that hillary clinton has been vetted on a national level for decades, but this is a different kind of vetting. we know that she's already been through a presidential in 2008. this is, to me, still a cake walk compared to what we saw in 2008. i know, don, you said have you ever seen anything like this? yes, it was so much worse. she didn't get out until june. >> she admits that. she admitted that with anderson. she said she won like 9 of the last 12 contests but things didn't change for her. >> her supporters also said they wouldn't support barack obama, and by the time august came around, those numbers started turn ago round. >> there's a little bit of a difference between then and 2008. the bernie sanders supporters
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are outsiders. they're the underdogs. they're the folks who are fighting to have their voices heard. that group won in 2008, and so the establishment with hillary clinton was able to rally behind barack obama. >> but you want him to stay in the race? >> i do absolutely. for all the reasons that angela just said. but i also think hillary is going to have a little bit of a challenge trying to get, as we know, get some of bernie sanders' people to come and vote for her. the longer bernie stays in the race, the more he keeps those people activated. i think there's a seamless transition at some point whether that be at the convention, whether it be before the convention or after the convention. there's going to be a more seamless transition if he doesn't step out and disappear for three months before the convention. >> that sort of takes away his power and his ability to speak to those people? that is actually a very good point because at some point -- because you saw, you needs 101% of the delegates in order, if you do it mathematically if there's not a contested convention. there it is. so if he says at the convention,
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you know what, bob, he says, it's time for me to bow out, but all of you people who are supporting me, i think it's really time for you to go and support hillary clinton, you think they'll do it? >> yeah, i think he will. one of the big nights will be bernie sanders will get a prime time speaking spot at that convention, and he's earned it. and at that point he's going to say, i hope, as very much like jesse jackson did for walter mondale when i managed his campaign, he was very strong in support of him. now he could go the other wait, the way teddy kennedy did against jimmy carter where he sort of walked away from the stage. but i suspect bernie sanders to stay relevant himself will give a very strong speech for hillary clinton and as much about why you don't -- in this country you can't afford donald trump, and he's the perfect spokesman because he's speaking to the same group of people in essence about jobs and trade and that sort of thing. he's very important to clinton. >> so if he doesn't do that, if he doesn't say -- can clinton wint over supporters without his help? it will be a challenge. she has the potential to bring
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in elizabeth warren or maybe a sherwood brown who be able to speak to that group of people, but i don't know that hillary is going to be able to do it on her own. she's not going to be able to change her message enough to convince those people. she's going to need a surrogate of some kind like bernie sanders. >> before you answer this, angela, if she were to do something on her own or something to i guess sort of -- i don't know if capitulate is the right word or trying to be nice to him, what would you want to hear her say? >> i think she's been doing it. i think in the past week especially she's been, you know, talking about how she wants him to stay in the race. i mean her surrogates are encouraging him to stay in the race. i think she's going to have to speak a little more to the issues. she hasn't talked as much about college loans as he has. he's talked about free college. but she could probably hit a little bit harder on some of the issues that are important to his supporters, especially the young folks. >> that, to me, i think is interesting. i want to talk about the issues point first. i would argue that she has not only talked about issues, but she has clear policy platforms
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whereas bernie sanders' platform is really pie in the sky. he's got a bill that he introduced in the senate talking about free college. it's very clear, right, that free state college would mean that you still may be accountable for room and board. you have to have all these partnerships with republican governors all over the country. they're tough. so i think we shouldn't minimize the fact that she's thought through some of this. i'm sure he has too, but it's going to cost -- >> college students are dreamers, you know. the people who are following bernie are dreamers, and they don't necessarily want to hear pragmatism. i think a lot of people are supporting bernie because he is dreaming and they know his north star. i totally agree that hillary being pragmatic is really important, but i think she's going to have to figure out a way to thread a needle where she's being pragmatic -- >> bob, quickly, because i've got to run. what happens to this bernie sanders revolution speaking of the dreamers? what happens after november? does it live? >> well, yeah, sure. look, when you have a contested
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campaign for presidency, you do polls and everybody on the other side will say, i'm not going to support that person. and it goes away as the reality starts to get clearer and clearer they've got to run gun a republican. the best recruiting tool for hillary clinton is donald trump. >> thank you everyone. when we come back, the rump/clinton war of words. what the candidates said what they sat down with cnn today. >> and i don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like donald trump running our country. >> she can't put it away. that's like a football team, they can't get the ball over the line. i put it away. one coat, yes! ♪ there is a day, for every number. ♪ ♪ there is a time, for all my slumbers. ♪ ♪ and i can see, that i can't run and hide. ♪ one coat guaranteed marquee interior. behr's most advanced paint. come find our top rated paints, only at the home depot.
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so you're looking live at the white house. just imagine it with donald trump living there. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. it is a picture that strikes fear in the hearts of democrats and some republicans as well. hillary clinton says the presumptive nominee is a loose cannon. but what would a president donald trump really do in his first 100 days and what would a trump administration mean for the rest of the world? plus chilling new details about the last days of prince. was he addicted to percocet and did he reach out for help, help that came too late? i want to begin, though, with cnn's chief national correspondent, john king, at the magic wall for us. john, how do the numbers look for a trump/clinton matchup? >> well, don, donald trump says the general election is under way. he enters that general election at a deficit. hillary clinton in the lead by a


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