tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN May 15, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT
this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. ♪ we'll start this show with the president's national security adviser susan rice on the fight against isis, on the president's controversial trip to hiroshima, and what she said is a lack of diversity in the u.s. foreign policy establishment. >> in the halls of power, in the faces of our national security leaders, america is still not fully represented. >> and, there is a way to have predicted the rise of both isis and donald trump. >> president obama, you're fired!
>> joshua cooper explains how some people can -- can't see through the flood of data that we all get hit with every day and see the patterns. how we can all learn how to have a seventh sense. and waziristan. it's been called the most dangerous place in the world, and it's especially inhospitable to women. so one girl there disguised herself as a boy in order to be educated and compete in sports. and she went all the way to the top. the amazing story of maria torpakai. but first here is my take. while americans have been obsessing about the presidential
election, half way around the world, iraq is collapsing as a country. this week's bombing in baghdad killing scores of people were one more reminder that the place remains deeply unstable and violent. and as iraq has spiralled downward, policymakers in washington have offered all kinds of advice on how to salvage it. but perhaps it is worth stepping back from iraq and looking at another country where america has been involved. afghanistan. the united states has been engaged in afghanistan militarily and politically and economically for 15 years. it has had many surges of troops. it spent more than $1 trillion on the war by some estimates and it still pays a large portion of afghanistan's defense budget. and yet last october the united nations concluded that the insurgency has spread to more places in the country than at
any point since 2001. some argue in washington that 15 years is not enough. they point to south korea and germany and say the united states should simply stay in afghanistan unendingly. i'm not opposed to a long-term u.s. presence in afghanistan, especially since the country's elected government seem to want it, but the analogy is misplaced. in germany and south korea american forces remained to deter a foreign threat. they were not engaged in a never-ending battle within the country to help the government gain control over its own
people. the more appropriate analogy is vietnam. much has been made recently of a pair of interviews on american foreign policy. one by president obama, and the it took just weeks to defeat the old regime. but years later, despite varying approaches, all of these countries remain in chaos. can anyone seriously argue that a few more troops here or a slightly different strategy there would have created stability and peace when you have instability in all three? most of obama's critics want a quick plan to defeat isis or more troops or greater u.s. intervention. they are blind to this dominant lesson of almost two decades, the failure of nation-building in the middle east. in syria, washington's real
dilemma would be if its strategy worked and isis were defeated, this would result in a collapse of authority in large swaths of iraq and syria that are teaming with radicalized sunnis who refuse to accept the authority of baghdad or damascus. having led the fight, of course, washington would be forced to assert control over these territories and set up prisons to house thousands of isis fighters and provide security and economic assistance for the population, all the while fighting the inevitable insurgency. you know you are in trouble when your strategy's success produces more problems than the failure. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "the washington post" column this weeks. and let's get started. ♪ on friday i sat down with
susan rice at the eisenhower executive office building on the white house grounds. it was an important time to talk to the national security adviser as president obama is about to head out to japan and vietnam as isis continues to wreak havoc in the world, especially the arab world, and just days after ambassador rice made controversial remarks about the lack of diversity in her own cohort, the u.s. foreign policy community. >> ambassador rice, pleasure to have you on. >> great to be back. >> the news reports suggest that the battle against isis is not going as well as it was initially thought because it is proven more difficult to get the turks and the kurds and the iraqi army to work together and most importantly that the iraqi army, when it goes into places, is viewed by a lot of the sunnis on the ground there, the locals, as an army of occupation. are these political, regional problems slowing down the fight against isis.
>> actually, i would argue in the last several months the isis campaign has made great progress. we've always taken the view and had the expectation that this was going to be a long-term challenge. this was a -- a fight to be measured in years, not months. and that it was not going to be a linear progression. we would have progress and setbacks and progress and setbacks but over the last several months by any number of metrics i would say that things have progressed quite well. for example, we have now taken back, with the iraqi forces, 45%
of the territory that isil originally controlled in populated areas in iraq. and about 20% of the populated territory that they controlled in syria is now out of isil hands. that is one metric. and we've taken out a number of siel leaders in iraq and syria. we've substantially degraded the economic resources by hitting cash storage sites as well as oil infrastructure that they've been using to raise revenue and we've seen evidence of their ability to pay their personnel at the same rates they had in previous years is diminished. so on a number of dimensions, in fact, the campaign has made real progress. >> but a lot of people say that particularly the effort to take mosul, the second largest city in iraq has slowed down because of this problem, the iraqi army not being viewed favorably by a lot of people. >> i think that is -- in fact, we have two significant remaining objectives. mosul and iraq, raqqa and syria. both of which are going to take time to -- to take back from isil. these are heavily and densely populated areas an major cities and each context will require a ground force in iraq led by the
iraqi army and joined by the kurds and others to first encircle and then ultimately seize mosul. in syria, obviously we need to continue to build with our partners on the ground in syria. and an arab force with the size and the capacity to take raqqa. that is going to be in both instances something that will take time to build. >> let me ask you about an interview that your deputy gave, ben rhodes, in a "new york times" magazine profile. he described it -- it was a controversial interview, much
commentary on it. in the article, the way in which rhodes and the national security staff is portrayed on one crucial issue, the selling of the iran deal, raised a lot of criticism and people felt there was a political campaign that might even have misrepresented the truth in order to sell the iran deal to congress and the american public. do you think that is fair? >> no. i think it is absolutely unfair. and let me be very clear as to why. first of all, there is nothing that ben or the president or i or anybody who is involved in explaining the iran deal to the american public said that it wasn't factually correct. if you look at that -- how that whole debate went down last year, there was perfect public attention, scrutiny, the documents were there for everybody to read, for members of congress to consider and debate. there was nothing that was hidden or could be hidden. it was in the public's sphere and never in my recent recollection has there been a more robust and substantive debate over an important foreign policy issue.
so there was nothing hidden. there was nothing -- there was no effort to or reality of misleading. and i think that is one of the unfortunate things about that article. there was never anything other than a straightforward attempt to explain the merits of the iran deal to the american people and to congress. and in fact, those merits have been borne out by the fact that we have now successfully cut off s all of iran's pathways to a nuclear weapon. iran is far more subject to international inspection and verification. the whole world now is able to determine through the inspection capacity of the international atomic energy agency that it is not able or in the process of moving towards acquiring a nuclear weapon. that makes the united states more safe. it makes our allies and partners in the region and the world more safe. including israel. so it is been a net positive by any measure. and the notion that there was any ball to hide or spin to put on it, i think is really misguided. >> we'll be back in a moment with much more with the
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ambassador rice, let me ask you about your commencement address. you gave a commencement address recently in florida in which you had tough words about the foreign policy establishment. you said it is not diverse enough. >> in the face of our national security leaders, america is still not fully represented. >> i wasn't talking about the foreign policy establishment, i
was talking about the national security workforce. those who work -- civil servants and foreign service officers in our state department, our development agencies and our defense department and our intelligence community. so these are the -- the u.s. government workforce in this realm. and what i said was that we would all benefit if the senior leadership and indeed the rank and file of our national and file of our national skeelr security workforce looked more like america. one of our greatest strengths as a nation in it addition to innovation and our fearlessness,
when you look at the people is the extraordinary diversity and that is an asset that serves us well as we lead the world but, it is not serving us as well as we could given that we are a country about now about 40% minority, and the leadership of our intelligence community and our military leadership are less than 15% minority, our senior diplomats, less than 20% minority. we can do better, and we are meanwhile producing higher numbers of well-educated, well-trained minorities that we ought to encourage to come into national security and foreign policy, recognizing that those with diverse backgrounds, different ethnicities, races, religions, sexual orientations, gender, bring a perspective that may not be the perspective that has been predominant from generations ago, and that's a good thing. i think we've all learned the dangers of group think. and when you have people around the table trying to solve the world's toughest problems, whether it is how to deal with isil as we discussed or climate change or combatting the ebola epidemic, to the extent that we have people who can bring different perspectives to bear in solving a given problem, the more likely we are to come up with more creative and effective solutions and solutions that are
likely to be acceptable in the environments in which they need to stick. >> do you think that you're -- that being a woman gives you a different perspective on international relations? >> that is a very hard to question to answer. i think many different aspects of who i am cause me to perhaps think and analyze and perceive problems differently than others around the table. whether that is a function of the fact that i'm a woman or an african-american, or somebody born in the 1960s and somebody who had the opportunity to go and be educated and very -- in very good institutions, all of the elements that combine to make me who i am, like everybody else who brings to bear their particular backgrounds and experience to a decision-making table, bring a different perspective. and the point i was trying to make at the commencement address at florida international university, which, by the way, is one of the most diverse universities in the country, 60%
plus hispanic, is to suggest that the more we bring the full fabric and all of its diversity to bear in our decision-making, whether on national security or education or any other sphere, the better our decisions are likely to be and i also very consciously was trying to encourage young people at this university to consider careers in public service and in particular in national security and foreign policy. >> you are heading out to vietnam and japan. the president will be the first american president to visit hiroshima, and your deputy ben rhodes said in his speech that he will not revisit the decision to drop the atomic bomb. i wonder why not. it seems like that is the elephant in the room. and why not discuss the -- what the president thinks about it? surely the japanese must be wondering.
>> well, it's interesting. the japanese have not asked us to come and reflect on the wisdom or not of that decision. nor have they asked for the united states to apologize. and in any event, we would not. this is something that we think is important to do to -- >> do you think it was the correct decision to drop the atomic bomb? >> yes -- yes -- i'm sorry. i misunderstood your question. i thought you were going to ask if i thought it was the right decision to visit hiroshima. i do you think it is the right decision to visit hiroshima. i won't give you my historian's judgment on the decision. >> why? >> because i think it is important. rather than to revisit that debate, the purpose of the president going to hiroshima, is one, to lift up the extraordinary cost of war as it affected civilians around the world in world war ii and continues to today.
secondly, it is very important in our judgment to reinforce what is american policy and the president's own vision of eventually achieving a world without nuclear weapons, with the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons. that is something that we continue to believe is important to aspire to. and while we've made significant strides in terms of arms control agreements and securing nuclear materials, we have a long way to go. the other message of this visit is that years on from the end of world war ii, we now have an alliance and partnership with japan which is one of the strongest in the world. and while the president is in hiroshima, he'll have the opportunity to visit with american servicemen and women and japanese service men 6 and women who are side-by-side working as allies and partners. that is also very important. so this will be a forward-looking visit. yes, it will happen in the context of history, but we don't think it is particularly useful to give a long discourse on the past. this is about the future.
and about what we -- working with japan and other allies in the region can build together and in terms of nonproliferation and a safer world for all of us. >> and the president must have a view on whether it was a correct decision to drop the atomic bomb. he's a man who studies history deeply. surely he has a view. >> i'm not saying he doesn't. >> donald trump says he wants a u.n. ambassador who will shake things up at the u.n. and get the united nations to start actually ending conflicts in the world. you were ambassador to the u.n. is that a reasonable requirement for the u.n. ambassador? >> well, i think u.n. ambassadors come in different flavors and styles. some would call ambassador john bolton as somebody who sought to -- under president bush, george w. bush, to shake up the u.n. and show -- throw some tough elbows. i'm not sure that that approach was altogether successful in
terms of changing the u.n. i think, in fact, what i found, when i was in ambassador to the united nations, you need a combination of toughness and diplomacy, a willingness to work with others in a constructive and collaborate way, but to be very plain about what we stand for and what we believe in. and i think that when america leads with respect for the institution of the united nations, fully cognizant of the many flaws and tries to make it a better institution, we are most effective there. >> ambassador susan rice, thank you very much. >> it is good to be with you again. next on "gps," donald trump is not just an american phenomenon. we'll take you to europe to meet the many mini trumps.
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segment. >> i will build a great, great wall on our southern border. >> donald trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> where does all of this come from? what explains the rise of donald trump and the popularity of some of his most incendiary proposals. the truth is trump is not an isolated phenomenon. not even a purely american one. in fact, the same currents that have allowed trump and his message to rise are running through most of the established democratic countries of europe. let's start with france. april 22, 2012, the far right national front party, an anti-immigrant party called fascist by some, won about 20% of the vote in the first round of the presidential election. post-war europe has had radical right-wing parties for decades, of course, but it's clear that
the great recession and the great austerity that followed led to a precipitous right in the power and support of such parties across the continent. 2014 proved to be the perfect political storm. as europe recoiled from the economic crisis, the continent was flooded from refugees fleeing syria. far right nationalists capitalized on the anxiety and anger storming to victory in the 2014 eu parliamentary elections. and some won seats in france, greece and the united kingdom. a in francis a historic victory. one in four french voters cast ballots for the la pens right party. the french prime minister called it a shock and earthquake. la pence's father, the founder of the power offered a solution for
the immigration problem, monsignor ebola could sort that out in three months. take a look at this map. in all of the countries in red the far right made significant gains in 2015. let's dig in and look at some examples. poland, the far right party swept parliamentary elections, grip on power and began to erode checks and balances. the country considered one of europe's economic success stories elected a far right wing president who has warned that migrants bring possible epidemics. denmark and hungary saw major gains for far right parties. and sweden has a history of welcoming immigrants. there the far right party became the third biggest political party in 2015. this is party with roots in the neo-nazi movement and accused of fire attacks on asylum centers. and this past week the austria chancellor resigned after eight years in office.
the move marked the death of the moderates in a country where the far right wing has won the first round of austria's presidential elections. courts recently reminded us that rome mismanaged a migrant crisis 1,700 years ago, turning inwards and losing its universal appeal, and it marked the beginning of the end of the roman empire. next on "gps," we continue on this theme. who in the world could have predicted the rise of trump? well, my next guest says if you had the right skills, the right eye for patterns and connections, the right filter to see the important data amidst the flood, you could.
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well, along comes an author who paw sits another sense entirely. joshua cooper's new book is called the seventh sense, power and fortune and survival in the age of networks. he is co-chief executive and vice-chairman of kissinger and associates, which among other things advises companies that wish to do business in china. >> joshua, pleasure to have you on. >> great to be here. >> so explain very simply what does it mean when you talk about having a seventh sense. what are we trying to understand? >> so i think we live in this world today where all around us we see things that we didn't expect that are just kind of exploding. and that some people sort of have an early feeling for. and so i'll give you an example, if a year ago someone said there is one presidential candidate who has $150 million raise and four decades of political experience and two presidents in the family and another presidential candidate with 5 million twitter followers, which one is more likely to be successful? most people would
say this guy over here. it is the ability to look at things and see the way in which connection changes their nature. whether it is presidential candidates or terrorists or financial instruments that really defines the new sensibility for this age. >> and to you trump is a very powerful illustration of the seventh sense because what we didn't realize was that being a celebrity and having created this very deep connection with people through facebook and twitter and of course the tv show, he had a kind of reach that was completely different from a conventional -- >> and completely invisible, if you use the traditional way of looking at it. it is a common thread that runs through the problems we have today. looking at isis two years ago when the president said this is the jv of terror because using a traditional metric they looked like the j.v. of terror but what isis understood is beheading 12 guys on video gave them a viral power and level of connectivity that would make even the 6th fleet able to
defeat. so the seventh sense marks those success in our age and to look at something and see how it affects us. >> and the isis, they were producing slick and short compared to the al qaeda videos highly produced and designed to be just gory enough to go viral but not so gory that people would refuse to share them. >> that is exactly right. and that instinct and how you tailor the content which is another thing related to the trump thing and independently of where you fall politically the way we absorb information is very much sort of like the way we absorb information on our facebook feed, whatever is there today is the most important and by tomorrow it goes and it disappears and the view that something you said five weeks ago today is replaced in an era where you have the constancy. and when you look at the way networks operate and what is important, networks, whether they are financial networks or information or dna networks and by that i mean connected systems they all have
certain regularities, and one is the hunger to be constantly on and that constant refreshing that he is doing, the owning of the news cycle, there was a moment when he and rubio briefly had a spat on twitter and rubio gave up after a day or so, and trump kept on going. and if you think about the politics at large, independent of trump and clinton and what will happen, this notion that how we interact has changed is fundamentally changing the way we interact is very important. >> and you spend a lot of time in china and you begin with this discussion of the chinese sage. >> yes. >> where does china fit into this picture? >> what is going on in china is a tremendous experiment which is how to engineer a country and a political system that is designed for a world of constant connection,
designed for constant connection and where democracy is re interpreted because of network forces. >> but china is not connected in the sense that party acts as a huge great fire wall monitoring the internet and blocking outside companies and blocking outside information. how could it survive in the world you are describing. >> one of the great debates about the network structures is the predominant one is the one of open versus closed and making that decision of how open or closed your system is is the fundamental idea of the network age. so when trump talks about the desire to build a wall, he's reflecting something that is a much broader phenomenon. one of the things i talk about in the book, if you look at the period from 1951 with the beginning of the construction of the berlin wall to today, there have been 75 wall-like structures built in the world. 80% of them don't last ten years and so that craving for separation is almost kind of a balancing out against this inclusiveness of globalization that we saw with the fall of the berlin wall. >> will china be able to succeed if it continues to build walls, virtual and real? >> nobody knows. this is the experiment. the question is how do you modulate the open versus closed system? the benefits of openness are obvious. it is essential and the chinese
themselves have said it is essential to be open to the world but they believe that the preservation of chineseness demands a degree of closeness and when you are in beijing, this is a lively debate today. by the way, as it is here. on things like should the iphone or the e-mails be open or closed based on encryption and this turns out to be one of the core debates of the network age. >> thank you. a pleasure to have you on. >> thank you for having me. >> up next, what would you do if you were born a girl in a region where women are practically locked away for most of their lives? we'll tell you the almost shakespearean story of one girl in pakistan who dressed like a boy and found great success in sport. an amazing tale, when we come back. true what they say. technology moves faster than ever. the all-new audi a4, with apple carplay integration.
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toorpakay was born. she grew up in pakistan's tribal area of waziristan on the border of afghanistan. it is a place that is not just dangerous to americans, but dangerous for many kinds of people, perhaps most importantly dangerous for women and girls. it is a place where militants rule in a patriarchal society and where females are mostly banned from school, from work, confined to spend their entire lives cloistered at home. but young maria toorpakay had great aspirations. she wanted to be educated and wanted to compete in sports. so she did something extraordinary. listen in. >> so, in my gender, a woman lives her entire life in the house. 60 years or 70 years in four walls. >> so you saw that life for women and you thought to yourself, i don't want to be a woman and you cut your hair off.
>> no, i am really happy that i chose to be like that. i chose to be like a tomboy. i could explore that region more than any other girl could ever do. >> so you cut your hair off. you renamed yourself or your father called you a new name? >> my father called me genghis khan. and that was the time he saw me burning all of my girly dresses. and it was my -- it was any outrage and it was my -- my way of explaining that i don't want to be a girl in that society. and the only thing i could say is i was young, but i could see a difference. i could see girls at home and i -- i am really strong. i'm not a very typical girl. i can be equally good as boys in playing sports but i just wanted to be outside and be part of that -- those fun games.
i want to have -- i want to have equal freedom as boys have and that is why i burned all of my dresses and put on my brother's clothes. and i said from now on, i'm going to have the equal rights as boys have. >> so flash forward and now you are 12 years old and you take part in a national weight-lifting competition. >> yeah. >> and you are competing and you come second but this is a boy's competition. >> yes. until age 12, i lived all of my life as genghis khan. nobody knew i was a girl. and when i chose to play the first weightlifting championship it was again with the boy's name genghis khan, and i came second in that championship in all of pakistan. >> and everybody else participating was a boy. >> everybody was a boy. and even everyone had to wear their body, you know, in order
to participate in this competition. that was a little tricky. >> because you had to strip down. >> yeah, they had to. and luckily my brother first, he refused that he doesn't want to do it, it was a plan. you know, and then another guy was very hishy, i don't want too it either. the next one i started playing squash, that was a little -- that was a time and people came to know about me. >> what happened? how were you then able to move forward as a woman? >> it was -- worst ever memories i have. all of my life i had freedom and had fun and had an amazing life. then all of a sudden people come to know i'm a girl and started to treat me really badly. everyone is telling my father to not allow me outside.
they don't want to see me outside. he's a shameful person or didn't have honor. >> even though at this point you are a nationally competitive sports person? >> yes and they keep telling my dad, it's not right. all of this -- things the way he thinks. then you see even in the mosque, would talk about me saying today i play sports and we're moving our society, it's unislamic. so we have to learn and not to do this kind of dishonorable things. >> you almost had an experiment in your life where you had a period where you were a boy and period where you were a girl. you could see how the society was treating you differently? >> that's what i think. i think that i lived two lives in one person. i have lived a life of a boy and lived life as a girl and have seen huge differences.
and i today i'm more connected to myself, who i am, who i should be and how the society should be. i feel that it's unjust to women there. they have -- they should have all the equal opportunities as boys, as men out there. and they should -- they have equal -- they have so much strength, so talented. you see sometimes i go to the -- sometimes when you see the girls, you will see in a young age, they can't see the world and can't see the beauty outside. do you think this is a life? the more you get knowledge, i think that's -- that's the most beautiful thing one person can have. >> maria, amazing story.
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earlier this week nasa announced keppeler had discovered 284 new planets. how many of the newly discovered planets could potentially support life? zero, nine, 24 or 57? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book of the week is makers and takers, the rise of finance and fall of american business. we've spent a lot of time understanding donald trump. this book provides a window into the twin appeal of trump and bernie sanders. finance chief points out represents 4% of america's jobs but 25% of corporate profits. maybe that's why only 19% of mill len yells say they support
capitalism. this is an important book with an important message. and now for the last look. will you be supporting doll say and ga ban na this season? the makers of one of the world's most popular assault rifles is now expanding his brand to fashion. it will unveil a military style clothing line complete with accessories this september. the company has not yet released images of the clothes but we have a few suggestions. look sharp in your ak-47 custom jacket. how about a trigger tie? a barrel baseball cap or maybe some bullet bling? russian news reports say there will be 60 retail stores across russia by the end of this year. following vladimir putin's anexation of crimea, sanctions have blocked sales of the
russian made weapons to the united states and the eu. so clashny kof needed to boost revenues according to the marketing director. perhaps american manufacturers will follow suit and we'll see smith and wesson bars popping up all over the country. american gun makers don't really need to extend their brand. there is plenty of demand for the core product, gun, to keep them profitable for decades. the correct answer is b. nasa says nine planets it just verify are in a zone which could support life. launch in 2009, nasa's mission is tasked with finding earth-like planets. as trom mers believe there may be one planet orbiting every star in the sky. imagine if just a tiny fraction of those planets had life on
them. to declare that earth must be the only planet with life in the universe would be inexcusably big headed of us. thanks for all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. >> thanks so much for joining us. you're in the cnn "newsroom." two words dominating the race for the white house on this sunday. party unity, these headlines are just a small sample of what's out there but despite the growing amount of conservative leaders who have vowed to support donald trump, there are new reports of a movement towards the opposite, a third party run. this was the front page of the "washington post" this morning. take a look. the paper says that mitt romney in a quote, handful of exasperated