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tv   At This Hour With Berman and Bolduan  CNN  May 19, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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states, france, and greece all searching for anything from that missing plane in the mediterranean sea. we'll keep you posted all day long. thanks for joining me today. i'm carol costello. "at this hour with berman and bolduan" starts now. this is cnn breaking news. >> hello, everyone. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm kate bolduan. >> and i'm john berman. egyptair has apparently crashed off the coast of egypt with 66 people on board. egypt says it's more likely that the cause is terror, not a technical failure. there's a frantic search right now for survivors and for the plane itself or what is left of it. greece says a search plan has spotted debris in the mediterranean sea near where the flight vanished from radar but it is unclear if these pieces are from the missing plane. >> with very few concrete
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answers at this point, there really is nothing but questions. and we also have some breaking news, breaking new details coming in just now. let's get to justice reporter evan perez with much more on that. evan, what are you picking up? >> kate and john, right now u.s. officials really have very little to go on, but one of the things that their leading theory right now for u.s. investigators who are watching this closely is that they believe it's most likely a bombing that brought down this aircraft. again, this is not based on any hard evidence, but simply the circumstances of what we're dealing with. we're talking about a highly sophisticated aircraft, an aircraft that has a lot of redundancies. it makes it even difficult for someone to deliberately stall this aircraft, and just the circumstances of the threat picture that we're facing in europe and also in egypt. again, this is early indications, early theories by u.s. officials who are closely tracking this. they want to be invited to help participate in this investigation. there's a lot obviously of u.s. interest in this.
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one thing that we've been reporting on is this report from greece, the greek authorities saying that they notice swerves in the aircraft, the aircraft swerving in the air and then dropping to 15,000 feet from 37,000 feet. we're talking to u.s. officials who tell us that, you know, that simply may be radar picking up pieces of the aircraft as it was blown up in the sky. again, that's something they're looking at at this point. they believe that french investigators are going to have to focus initially on the ground crew, people who had access to this aircraft in paris and obviously egyptian investigators are going to have to focus on the flight crew, people -- the passenger manifest, even the security people who were on board this aircraft because something happened to this plane at 37,000 feet. it doesn't just mysteriously disappear. something catastrophic happened, and they believe at this point the early indications, even what the egyptians are saying at this point as well, that there is something related to terrorism. most likely a bombing that
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brought down this aircraft. >> now. >> evan perez, u.s. officials telling you early theory, the early notion is it was a bomb that took down the plan, because of the circumstances. the fact they're saying that at all, evan, very, very significant. evan perez, thanks so much. let's go to cnn's senior international correspondent arwa damon at the cairo international airport where flight 804 was supposed to land several hours ago. arwa, nowhere on earth do i think they want more answers than that airport where so many people were there to meet loved ones who were due to land and that's why the egyptian officials are very much engaged in this investigation. >> reporter: they really are, and what you heard evan reporting there from the u.s. side is something that was previously stated to a certain degree by egypt's own civil aviation minister where he had said that it was most likely terrorism as opposed to a technical failure that had brought this plane down. there are a few key points that
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investigators are most certainly going to be looking at, and that is exactly what happened in the plane's final moments. greek authorities say that they tried to contact the aircraft as it was moving from greek into egyptian air space. they were going to be handing over control from greece over to egypt. at that point they struggled to make contact, and it was shortly afterwards where the plane began its plummet and then completely disappeared from radar. the building you see behind me, this is where a lot of families have been coming, especially egyptian families who are here waiting for their loved ones to be arriving back home, coming to try to get some sort of information. we're not allowed inside the building, and those who have been willing to talk to the media have been coming out sporadically throughout the entire day. in the morning as people were going in, they were very confused, very startled, shocked, and then as they began
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coming out, as the news began seeping in that this plane was, in fact, missing, there was a lot of emotion and understandably so. people breaking down. people very angry. people wanting answers, but also people trying to cope with the reality that they might not be seeing their loved ones again, and at the same time you still also have some people who are still holding out hope that perhaps their loved ones may still be alive because what does one do in these kinds of circumstances but try to hold on to hope? now, the egyptian military reportedly has spotted some debris in the water, unclear though at this stage if that debris is, in fact, part of this egyptair aircraft. there's still a lot of information out there that is fairly conflicting at this stage and also a lot that investigators are trying to piece together when it comes to
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exactly what transpired, and if it does, in fact, turn out to be an act of terrorism, you're going to have an investigation that is going to be happening across multiple continents spanning through numerous nations. needless to say the french and the egyptians having to come together to try to figure out exactly what went wrong and how did this, in fact, happen. >> arwa damon for us in cairo. it is notable that egyptian officials do say it's more likely an act of terror than a technical failure which is much further than egyptian officials usually go and much more quickly than they usually go. again, evan perez reporting that the current belief, the current -- >> big news coming in from obviously arwa and especially from evan. let's discuss this. we've got a whole lot of people who know a whole lot about this with us right now. paul ginsberg, is forensic audio expert, and our cnn aviation
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analyst les abend, a 777 captain and contributing editor. paul cruickshank, juliette khiyam, a former top official at dhs, cnn safety analyst and former faa safety inspector david soucie, and aviation attorney justin green. everybody here with us. paul, first to you. with this news coming in from evan perez that the initial theory from u.s. officials is that this was terrorism and that their working theory was this was a bomb that brought down this plane, not based on concrete evidence, just looking at the circumstantial evidence of what is known right now, what's your take? >> well, this underscores the importance of the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder once they're recovered to see exactly what happened during the last few minutes of the flight, whether there was something that the pilot and the co-pilot were aware of,
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something that was imminent, whether something had happened, they would be disabled, an explosion or a failure of the equipment. and this is what we're hoping to find out hopefully soon. >> paul cruickshank, to you now, any chatter right now among terrorist groups or terrorist organizations? what are you picking up about if this is, in fact, an act of terror, two could be behind it? >> there have been no credible claims of responsibility. in fact, not really any claims of spoget responsibility at all any terrorist groups. there's been deafening silence from isis. they've put out statements about other activity but been completely silent on this plane crash. there's been nothing from al qaeda either on this, and we must stress, this is only a working theory right now from the egyptians, from some parts of the american government that this could be terrorism. there is no concrete data at
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this point suggesting this is a terrorist attack but they will certainly be lking at the passenger list, the cargo manifest and also looking at where this plane was over the last 24 hours. obviously it departed from charles de gaulle airport in paris. there's been some concern about radicalization amongest airport workers there since the paris attacks. they have tidied things up a lot in recent months. it would be very difficult to get a bomb on board a plane at charles de gaulle airport. they will also be looking at the other stops along the way, notably in cairo, eritrea, and tunis. all airports in the developing world where there have been concerns these countries are lagging behind in aviation security. they do not have the state of the art technology, not as good training in many of these countries, and they don't have as rigorous security protocols for workers at the airport.
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only just a few months ago in february in somalia we saw the shabaab terrorist group, an al qaeda affiliate, managed to get a bomb on a somalian passenger jet. it actually blew up this laptop bomb, a sophisticated device on the plane, and blew the bomber out with it. fortunately that plane was able to land, but they'll be looking at that kind of scenario of terrorist potentially getting a bomb on a plane. perhaps on an earlier stop for this aircraft if indeed it is terrorism which we just do not know yet for sure. >> and that's absolutely right. there is, of course, a note of caution in these early hours. this is an initial theory. more likely than not is the way that egyptian officials are saying, but, of course, the facts can change as more facts come in. so these are working theories, as paul is well pointing out. les, one thing paul was just talking about is where the plane had been in the past two days
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prior. cairo, brussels, tunis, eritrea. he says those are kind -- there are concerns there are weak links in those airports. with that flight bath before getting to paris, is the plane swept again? what are the security measures when a plane has five legs even just that day? >> it's a good question. we were talking with one of our cnn correspondents just that thing, and lf pplre probably familiar with coming from an international destination. >> exactly. >> into kennedy let's say for instance, close to home here, and you have to carry your bags to your -- through to customs again and then go on to your domestic destination. so did that happen there or was this particular country that the airplane was in, did it just get checked all the way through with a possible device? but once again, as you have been saying, rightfully so, we don't know. this is preliminary information. there could be other aspects involved with why this airplane
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suffered some sort of cass strofic failure. >> i want to bring in miles o'brien. miles, based on the data that we do have, which is that the plane, you know, apparently this all happened at 37,000 feet, cruising altitude, that it took that strange turn left. that strange turn right. then it dropped 22,000 feet, very, very suddenly. based on what we know about the communications, it checked in, everyone was happy. and then 30, 40 minutes later they couldn't make any contact, the ground couldn't. how does that fact pattern line up with this theory, this early notion from u.s. officials that they believe this could be an act of terror, some kind of bomb? >> well, john, i think it's very much in line with a deliberate act of some kind. it doesn't match the bomb scenario very well. in past cases where we've had these incidents happen, there hasn't been a precursor warning. in this case we had the air-traffic control failed hand-off. the crew not responding a couple minutes prior to all of this
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happening. that doesn't match with previous bomb scenarios that have occurred which just come instantaneously with no warning whatsoever, no indication at all. so i'm not sure how we can jive the lack of communication, the swerving, the erratic maneuvers along with the bomb theory. certainly it all fits into the notion of some sort of terror attack. >> david soucie, let me bring you in on this as well. as evan was telling us earlier, the wild turns, the swerve left, the turn right then, there is a theory that that could have not been the plane, it could have been pieces of the aircraft being picked up on radar. your thoughts on that? >> you know, radar is a fickle beast and can ill report some things. however, i don't see that as being a theory necessarily right now at this point. we don't even know how they got that information, whether it was radar, whether it was from errant reports from other radars in other countries.
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we do know that greece did report it, but i don't put a lot of stock in that theory. i believe that it would have to be a very large piece if it did, and if it were two large pieces, those pieces would have fallen at different rates and would have been picked up as well on the way down. >> yulia, i want to bring you into the conversation right now. what is the threat environment overall right now? immediately when you hear a flight originaliting in paris, charles de gaulle, heading toward egypt, another site where we know there was a great deal of terrorist activity. what's the overall threat environment? >> well, it has been elevated, and we know that there's a number of state department advisories regarding travel not just in egypt but also in europe. so, look, at this day and age we're going from the philosophy there's a tremendous number of vulnerabilities and things can
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go wrong. i want to pick up on what miles said because it's a great way to think about it. a deliberate act is different than terrorism. we don't know what the motivation is, but all the evidence suggests it was a deliberate act. we don't know what it is yet, and that's why the investigation is going to take five or six different pathways over the course of the next couple days. some will lead to dead ends and others will then begin to expose what, in fact, happened. this is important because we need airline travel to be safe and secure and to continue, right? we cannot just stop airplane travel around the globe. so figuring out who did this or what was the cause of the deliberate act is absolutely essential if only to give confidence in a global aviation environment. >> because that's right, the planes aren't going to stop flying, that's for sure. everyone stick around. we have obviously a lot more to discuss. breaking news coming in. the initial theory from u.s. officials, the early belief is a bomb took down the plane. this was an act of terrorism, that is just the initial theory. no concrete evidence yet.
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that is based on circumstantial findings, the evidence that's laid out there right now. a lot more to discuss. this is cnn special coverage. we'll be right back. k you. as our business is growing, and you're on the road all day long, it's exhausting. holiday inn has been a part of the team. you're on the fourth floor. it makes life on the road much easier. book your next journey at holidayinn.com once i left the hospital after a dvt blood clot. it makes life on the road much easier. breaking news coming in. this is cnn special coverage. ...and could this happen again? i was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me? i spoke to my doctor and she told me about eliquis. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. not only does eliquis treat dvt and pe blood clots. but eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. knowing eliquis had both... ...turned around my thinking. don't stop eliquis unless you doctor tells you to.
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our breaking news just in to
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cnn. the early belief from u.s. government officials is that egyptair flight 804 went down due to an act of terror. this is based we are told more on circumstances than evidence at this point, but that is the early belief. the u.s. is now offering to join the investigation. on the phone with us cnn chief national security correspondent jim sciutto. jim, what are you learning about the u.s. role? >> reporter: john, i would just amend that to say the early theory rather than belief because the evidence at this point is largely circumstantial. listen, indicative, but circumstantial. because a plane at 37,000 feet, cruising altitude, the safest part of flight, doesn't just drop out of the air for no reason, but we do also know that a lot of the evidence at this point is early. for instance, satellite imagery at this point would not necessarily be conclusive as to whether there was a flash indicating an explosion at the point of disappearance. so just that caution. the u.s. in very close contact with both its egyptian and
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french counterparts. these are two deep relationships on counterterror issues and one of the first things they share is the manifest of this flight, the passenger list so the u.s. can check it against its terror watch list and that's something they can do very quickly. i'm confident they know right now if there's anybody on that plane that was on a watch list before. that's one thing we know that's happening right now and happening very quickly. i spoke with french security source just a short time ago who said another point here is that you have the starting point of this flight, france, and the intended finishing point, egypt, both being countries that have active terror threats, and that's, of course, part of the picture at this point, and both french and u.s. authorities in cooperation with french authorities are looking at it right now. >> absolutely. and u.s. officials offering any
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help that they can. this looks like it's going to become a massive effort of many nations coming together, many being involved now. jim sciutto, thank you so much, jim. but let's get to paris right now. cnn senior international correspondent teekah shatika sh at charles de gaulle airport. what you seeing there, what are you hearing at charles de gaulle right now? >> reporter: well, we're actually in front of the egyptair ticketing desk and the airport, even though it is at its highest alert level is operating as normal. we have seen armed police, armed security going through the airport, making spot checks, but i have to point out this is high-level security that's been going on for some time now, for quite a few months here. the paris prosecutor has launched an investigation into the missing egyptair flight. that is absolutely standard procedure when an air disaster like this happens. what they are doing right now is scrutinizing that passenger and crew list, figuring out the
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backgrounds, the history of who was on board, but also, of course, any personnel that may have had access to that plane before the flight. now, actually in the last few months the charles de gaulle airport underwent a security review in which about 70 employees were actually removed from their posts and had their security badges taken away because of fears they had links to islamist groups. so the airport is well aware of the security concerns, and it has notched it up significantly, but they are now, of course, reviewing it as a result of this missing egyptair flight. >> a particular concern because of those people who have been let go over the last 13, 14 months because of these investigations. as you said though, security up as well. both sides of it. atika shubert, thanks so much. i want to bring in mary schiavo and peter goelz. mary, i want to start with you.
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we've been hearing that the fact pattern that exists as of now, and by that i mean the limited data we have about the flight path, the altitude, when it was last heard from, that our aviation analyst suggests it could be a deliberate act. that fact pattern points to a clib r deliberate act. explain that. >> i think what people are doing and what we do as investigators, we look at prior acts, we look at prior crashes, prior disasters and say do any of those facts look similar here? and you can point to a number of them where they do, where, you know, pan am 103, some of the other in-flight explosive events but then you also have ones caused by mechanical failure such as twa 800. so i think people are also adding into that, to me, the very, very alarming facts that came out of the paris airport at the end of last year where they had identified 57 people on
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terror watch lists, and by the way, paris was not alone. there were other airports in europe, including brussels where they had identified persons and one of the participants in the paris attacks, in the brussels attacks, had purchased ten detonators near paris. so i think people are adding up the likelihood of it -- all this terror connections come to fruition but also looking at prior disasters where terrorism played a role. >> peter, i want to bring you in. you know, you have investigators who obviously are on the ground looking into the ground crew, anyone who had access to this part of the airport or to the plane. that's what is obviously happening at charles de gaulle and the o airports where this plane was, but from kind of the ntsb/faa inspectors' standpoint, if there is debris that is found and confirmed that it is part of this plane, what would you be looking for to see if this was a blast or if this plane broke up
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for another reason. >> well, if it was a blast, it would leave telltale markings. there would be pitting. there would be gas washing. an explosive device leaves a signature, and after twa 800 in 1996, the ntsb actually blew up a 747 with a variety of explosive devices so that you could actually see the signatures. so investigators, if they start to get wreckage back, will look for that kind of stuff, look for sooting, look to see if the parts separated in a certain way that would imply an explosive decompression or a more stress related. so investigators will look for that. but the key above all are the data recorder and the voice recorder, and we need to get vessels into the appropriate area quickly to start looking to
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hear those pings. >> and this is such a busy area. i mean, when you know kind of the area that this plane was last heard from, you would think that there is a better chance than not, justin -- let me bring in justin green on this -- that they would be able to locate those hopefully soon. before when we were talking about kind of what data that u.s. officials could be basing their theory on and why the initial theory is that it could be terrorism and that it was a bomb that brought down this plane, that initial theory, you brought up infrared satellite data that could offer some clues. what are you looking at? >> i'm really speculating. i actually hate the word conjecture, and i guess u.s. official said this is just conjecture at this point. you could line up a number of facts and say it's not terrorism too. there's been no indication that a passenger was related to a terrorist organization. there's been no claim of responsibility, and you could line up the same facts and say,
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well, it's at a safe altitude, a safe part of the flight. so i think conjecture is the wrong way. but the people, the sources that cnn has, may actually know a lot more than they're letting on right now. so the egyptians saying it's more likely terrorism -- >> than technical. >> it didn't really surprise me as much. i don't like that. i think the investigation -- >> but it is surprising in that egypt in 1999 the egyptair crash with the united states, officials say it was piloted down on purpose. egypt still to this day doesn't say so. the russian plane -- >> history shows they slow walk these conversations. >> the russian plane went down because of some kind of soda can bomb. egypt took months and months to come out. they slow walked. this time they didn't. >> my firm represented the 990 families, and i agree with you 100%. but remember they slow walked the other two events where the blame was on them. if this is a terrorist attack, a
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terrorist bomb where the bomb got on in france, it's really on egypt. so the same reason why they might slow walk the prior incidents is another reason why they might do a rush to judgment in this case. but i would think that if a u.s. official has said we think this is terrorism, they may know something that supports that depending on who it is, but conjectu conjecture, anyone can speculate at this point. >> and as you said, you can line up the same amount of facts and use those to point to one conclusion and same fact can point to another conclusion at this point. meaning there are so many more questions than answers at this point, but we're going to continue with that in just a second. our breaking news is going to be continuing. u.s. officials, as we were just discussing with justin, their initial theory, that's the way they're terming it, is that a bomb took this plane down. we'll be right back. this is cnn special coverage. because now you're free to watch your directv with unlimited data from at&t.
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we're continuing to follow breaking news on the missing egyptair flight. details, new breaking details coming in. let's get back over to cnn justice reporter evan perez. evan, walk us through what you're hearing from your sources on the initial theory from the u.s. side. >> reporter: well, kate, you know, it's important to make note that officials aren't ruling anything out. obviously there's still the possible of mechanical failure here, although people think it's very, very unlikely given the circumstances of what we're watching here. there is the leading theory at the moment is that there's some kind of deliberate act, whether a bombing or somebody who tried to glib rdeliberately bring thie down. whether it's a crew member or someone who rushed the plane.
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there are various parts of this that simply just don't make sense, which is why the leading theory that officials i have talked to say is most likely a bombing. now, this is an aircraft that went from -- before it flew from paris to cairo was -- flew to eritrea and to tunis before landing in paris. that's part of something that investigators will have to look at to see whether or not there was any security risks there that were missed. we have to look at the security picture we're talking about both in egypt and generally in europe. we're talking about the rise of radical extremism. the big concern of terrorists acts in europe this summer is something that's on the minds of a lot of officials not only in europe but also here in the united states. there's a lot of interest obviously in trying to figure out what happened to this aircraft flying at 37,000 feet. suddenly according to the greek authorities they noticed some swerves. the question of whether or not
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those swerves would have been picked up by radar and whether you can trust that radar would pick up those swerves is something that i talked to officials this morning and they said they just didn't think that was a very reliable thing to say simply because again if this plane blew up in the sky, perhaps, again perhaps, the radar was picking up pieces of the aircraft as it fell or it could be something else. simply not reliable to say that you could defect these swerves based on the radar that we were looking at, kate. >> all right. evan perez, thanks so much. want to bring back paul cruickshank and juliette khyyem. we're talking about a theory or a belief. an early belief or theory that it could an act of terror. egyptian officials believe it's more likely an act of terror. you have been reporting that targeting airports is something
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both isis and al qaeda want to do. explain. >> absolutely. both al qaeda and isis want to target airplanes, want to take down passenger jets. they get a lot of global headlines. there's a big economic impact by doing that. and there's been a technological arms race between jihadi terrorists on the one side and people working in the field of explosive detection on the other side with terrorists innovating and creating new types of devices to try to beat airport security. we've seen al qaeda in yemen take the lead on this. the master bombmaker developing new generations of shoe bombs, new generations of underwear bombs, even experimenting with surgically implanting bombs into people's bodies according to recent intelligence that has come out. >> relevant authorities -- >> paul, we're going to interrupt -- dip right into the secretary of state john kerry who is speaking in brussels at a
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nato gathering. >> i have no more knowledge than others at this point with respect to those facts, but we certainly extend our condolences to each and every country that has lost people, and particularly to egypt which has made so many efforts in recent months to break out of and away from the last events, and so no matter what i think everybody -- our thoughts are with them and with all the passengers. no matter what crisis demands our attention at this moment, and obviously there are many, we are never taking our eye off of the larger picture, which is what nato and this meeting is really all about.
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>> secretary kerry there talking in brussels right now at a meeting of nato foreign ministers. he said at this point he does not have any new information about what brought down egyptair flight 804, but he did express his condolences to the families of everyone on board, and particularly to the entire nation of egypt which he pointed out has dealt with tragedied in the near past and is dealing with another one now. >> juliette, as the secretary of state offers condolences to egypt and all of the passengers and everyone that was on board, there is one fact about who was on board that i and many others have noted as very interesting. that there were three security officials on the flight. there were 66 people total on board. is that unusual? >> it seems higher given the quantity of people who are on the plane in terms of passengers. i know this just from the tsa side and the u.s. side, but what
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we don't know is were the security personnel actually being moved from paris back to cairo to then get on other flights. remember, they're leaving people all around the world. they have to bring them back. that's why you see extra pilots often on flights or extra flight attendants. so we don't know if they were on duty or not, but they were just given the designation of security. that's what they're looking at. you're hearing that is part of their review is was there either an increased threat on this plane that caused them to have more personnel. my speculation, and i'm willing to say that just based on my experience, one or two of them may have just been in transport to realign with their workforce. if i could just add one more thing on what paul was saying, there's a lot of stuff going on. i recognize that. but there's only a limited number of possibilities at this stage. mechanical failure, pilot error, or some deliberate act. so we don't have to call it terrorism. and all three of those investigations are going on simultaneously, but the data is starting to align around the
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deliberate act. we don't know if it's passenger, luggage, or airport personnel that put something on it, but i just want to say all three of those investigations are going on. we're just -- what the evidence is suggesting based on both what happened, the lack of evidence, the lack of any weather explanation, is that a lot of the data is falling into that deliberate pool. >> you say the data is aligning toward deliberate act. what data, why? can you go further? >> some of it is lack of data. so no sos. no weather disruptions. no question about the sanctity of the airplane. in other words, there was no mechanical failures sort of what i would say professional pilots, pilots that no one is saying this guy had a mental illness, at least at this stage. so some of it is lack of evidence. then the sort of flight, right? the way it moved and hearing your aviation folks remark on
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this has convinced me in many ways, the lack of an sos. some of it is lack of data in other cases where there was either mechanical failure or pilot error. so part of it is lack and other of it is the threat environment we live in, what paul has been reporting on in terms of desire, previous incidences with egyptair and concerns at the paris airport. look, we take all the data and put it into piles. people are investigating all three potential acts, but it would be sort of denying the data points right now to say that it's mere speculation that this was a deliberate act. there's just a lot of things pointing that way. >> those three types of investigations though, you explained it really well, juliette, happening all at once and the bits of information that we get in that you have to kind of filter it all through and what it means as part of the three avenues of investigating at this moment. a lot more to cover. juliette, paul, they're going to be sticking with us. we'll be right back. this is cnn special coverage.
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all right. our breaking news coverage of egyptianaire flig air flight 80 off from paris and believed to have cashed in the mediterranean sea. officials telling cnn the early belief is that it was brought down by some kind of deliberate act, possibly an act of terror. this is based more on circumstances than evidence right now, but that is the current early theory. >> you can see right here with us is les abend, cnn aviation analyst, also a 777 captain which is where we really want to lean on your experience on this. we're on the big floor map and we want to show you guys so we can kind of talk through this as
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we look at the flight path of where it was -- where it took off, where it was supposed to go. this is -- how busy is this corridor? we assume a very busy corridor. >> it's a busy corridor. this was a scheduled, standard flight. there's a lot of airplanes that go back and forth. a lot of radar coverage, so, yeah, it's a busy corridor with a lot of commercial traffic and boat traffic. >> you look at the floor over there. you see the map. that is the point of last contact. north of egypt and in egyptian air space in the mediterranean sea, and what we've been told, les, is that they checked in, they had a friendly conversation with air traffic. then 45 minutes later air traffic tried to check in with them, got no response. then we're told radar picked up wild swings, a 90 degree turn to the left, a 360 degree turn to the right. >> my gut reaction is something catastrophic happened. there's also a possibility we're talking that this captain was cheerful. could they have been suffering from a potential hypoxi
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situation where the airplane was continuing along and its insidious where it's a slow leak? not likely, but they might have done something funky with the airplane. all of these turns, that's very difficult to do in an airbus. airbus is designed to protect itself from radical turns of that nature. it stops, if i recall, it will stop pilots from turning it rapidly to like 35 degrees of bank. the same thing with boeing products, they'll also do that. so turning that airplane that quickly is very, very difficult if this data is correct. >> right, of course. >> and what data are we getting? are we getting the data directly from the aircraft itself, from the radar? is the radar picking up pieces of the airplane? we're not quite sure because that's a crazy turn if, indeed, that's the information that's being disseminated. >> as we're looking, this is where the plane would have left greek air space, entered into
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egyptian air space, and this is where the last point of contact happened, and then the plane dropped off. i'm fascinated from your standpoint, what is the protocol when it comes to there's contact. the handover to egyptian -- to egypt air-traffic when the greek authorities are trying to reach out and there is no response, what is the protocol? if it is mechanical? if they are dealing with a situation what is the protocol? if it is terror related and something or someone who entered the cockpit is it different? >> it's standard procedure. you know you are handed off. there are flight information regions all over the world. they know they are approaching. they know they have a change in frequency. if it was an emergency situation occurring or about to occur as i have always said every time i
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have been on. we aviate and navigate and communicate. if we have a situation that is occurring we are going to assess the airplane and see what we have going on and try to control the airplane is our first order of business and then go to the appropriate check list. if you are going into other air space and you have time to communicate this information you do so. but the first thing you want to-do is get the airplane under control. >> talking is not the priority. in and of itself it is maybe not enough reason. we are following the apparent crash. we are getting new information right after the break. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months.
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first we turn to politics with new demands by bernie sanders for hillary clinton to face him in a final debate before the june 7 primary in california. sanders doubling down on his commitment to remain in the race until the very end even if it means continuing rising tensions within the democratic party which may boil over into a hotly
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divided july convention. >> joining us now to discuss dana bash and cnn politics executive editor mark preston. big article in the "new york times" today. saying sanders team is going to compete and compete hard possibly all the way into the convention and simply do not care if it hurts. you get the sense in some cases that some folks may hope that it does. >> i think that there is a segment of bernie sanders supporters that wants to see that happen. however, i think once we get through california and maybe to june 14 when the district of columbia holds the last contest there will be a reevaluation. as much as bernie sanders is leading the revolution i don't think he wants to try to destroy hillary clinton if she is the nominee to set it up and make it easier for donald trump. >> all you have to do is look at my twitter feed, probably your twitter feeds to see that there is a lot of enthusiasm still.
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look at the crowds that he is getting in california. not just enthusiasm but some bad blood from people who are very much in support of bernie sanders who think that he hasn't been treated fairly despite the fact that he has been kind of the leader and the voice of a phenomenon and that is true. having said that, my prediction is that once hillary clinton goes over the top meaning once she gets the number of delegates assuming that she does that, i just feel like the conversation is going to be different. >> at the same time you have with bernie sanders you also are seeing almost seems like turning of the tide where you have a group of democrats who are supportive of hillary clinton but very careful to not speak out against bernie sanders. it seems to be shifting in the past couple of days where there is a growing frustration among those democrats about how bernie
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sanders has handled some of this. how is that going to look going forward? >> a lot of the more outspokenness is because of the fact that there was genuine frustration and anger at bernie sanders for the way that he handled what happened in nevada. get to a microphone and speak as himself and the statement they put out they thought was half hearted at best. that is spurring a lot of it. the other part of it is the fact that there is only one man standing on the republican side and he is going after hillary clinton hard. >> harry reid has harsh words for bernie sanders. barbara boxer very clear. these are people who have been close to sanders. it's them and as you say they are looking at the republican side and looking at new polls. >> there is a new fox news poll which has donald trump leading
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hillary clinton in a hypothetical race. this introduces bed wetting in democratic circles. >> bernie sanders is no fan of hillary clinton. his hatred is not necessarily about hillary clinton but about the democratic national committee. debbie wasserman schultz who he believes treated him unfairly. the anger from sanders and a lot of supporters is directed at the establishment and not necessarily at hillary clinton even though they don't believe in all policies that she believes in. to your point when you have a poll come out that sees donald trump gain ground on hillary clinton at a time when he is not getting attacked and hillary clinton is getting attacked it goes to show you that hillary clinton does want to get beyond this primary and focus on the general. >> great to see you guys. thanks so much. >> important programming note. live interview with hillary clinton on cnn at 1:30 right here. don't change the channel. >> a lot going on today. we are following the
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disappearance of a crash. we are getting all kinds of new information. thanks for joining us. >> "legal view with ashleigh banfield" starts right now. this is cnn breaking news. >> hello everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. this is "legal view." with begin with breaking news of a major commercial airplane crash. right now the search for answers in the egypt flight 804 disaster is focussed on a spot in the eastern mediterranean. about 200 miles off the island of crete where a military plane spotted two floating objects that may or may not be part of that air bus 320 that disappeared from radar just seconds after entering egyptian air space. flight 804 on route from paris to cairo. 66 people were on board t

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