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tv   United Shades of America  CNN  May 20, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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it is 10:00 p.m. on the east coast, 4:00 a.m. in cairo, where the sun is about to come up on the third day of search and
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recovery of this search and recovery mission. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. a new clue tonight, smoke alerts aboard egyptair flight 804 minute s before it crashed into the mediterranean. officials say searchers have found seats, aircraft parts, suitcases and human remains. but so far no sign of the plane itself or the black boxes. and as hillary clinton and donald trump go head to head on terror, bernie sanders has his eye on the democratic convention. >> and let me also say that we are going to fight for every last vote between now and june 14th. and that we are going to take our fight into the democratic convention. >> we're going to talk politics. my political panel is sitting by on the set to get to that conversation and more in moments. i want to begin with the very latest on egyptair.
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joining me now is cnn's richard quest, author of the vanishing of flight mh-3870. thank you for joining us. new information shows the plane's smoke detector was activated. what does that tell us? >> it tells us that something very nasty was going on the aircraft. and we know roughly whereabout it was taking place. a series of sensors, alerts came about, the windows and lavatory smoke detector and ofavonics ana couple of computers started to fail. it is at the front of the aircraft, all in the avionics bay. we don't know why, and that's crucial, of course, because we don't know whether it was as a result of some bomb or incendiary device or a mechanical issue. but it does now help us understand why, for instance, the crew unresponsive, when they
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were called by the greek air traffic controllers to be handed off to egypt, we now know that most definitely was something going on the aircraft. we know that either they had already -- the plane was already in extreme and breaking up or dealing with some most horrendous problems. and you do have this question, don, of the smoke detection, was it fire? was it explosion? or was it smoldering of some other kinds? so we are getting closer, not to knowing the reason, but we're getting closer to knowing the location and the sort of issues that they were dealing with. >> i know that richard your pilot sources are contacting you. what are they saying? >> this is the fascinating part about it. some are saying that the computer failures are significant. there is a saying it is not. some are saying windows may be
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open in the cockpit. others are saying it is an explosion. some are saying the plane was being flown in a particular way. others are saying it was unflyable. i'm almost -- the range of options now is becoming ever extensive. and what it tells me, don, because to try and understand this, what it tells me is all we really know is that whatever happened was at the front of the aircraft, and one of the most sensitive crucial significant parts of the plane. the avionics bay under the cockpit, where the communications are, so for instance, to anything happening down there, could cut all the communications, which might well explain why we don't hear any may day. it also tells us that the pilot s on board were dealing with some of the most difficult issues that any pilot would ever want to deal with, which is perhaps smoke, perhap flames on board that plane.
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>> usually once they start to collect the debris, many times they'll put the plane back together to figure it out, if that is possible. where is this debris going to be collected and analyzed and how long will it take to get results? >> very good point. the debris is going to be collected. it will be taken to egypt. egypt is the state of occurrence. egypt has responsibility for this. egypt, let me be clear about this, egypt is perfectly capable and competent for doing this investigation. any suggestions otherwise, they may fudge a detail here, they may obscure a detail there, we saw with metro jet, eventually they come to the conclusion that is the right conclusion. so egypt gets the data. egypt gets the debris. now, don, when they may need specialist help to read a flight data recorder, to open the black boxes, then, for instance, you get the french coming in or the british coming in or those who will have that extra expertise.
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but for the moment, everything goes to egypt and that includes, unfortunately, sad to say, and awful to consider, the human remains. the loved ones of those who were on board. >> thank you very much for the update on the missing airplane, richard quest for us in beijing. back to our political discussion with maria car dona, margaret hoover, steven miller and sarah cone. we talked about hillary clinton's sort of nuanced response, she has to be careful that it is not conviewed as a weakness. donald trump is using his, strong, coming out right away saying, okay, this is terror, we should all, you know, deal with it. and then he makes the point about the second amendment, which everyone says is false, but steven says is true. you didn't get to make your point. you're saying what? >> i was saying that in the first instance we saw one of donald trump's tactics, which is focused on fear, right? talk about fearmongering, talk
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about what he knows people are afraid of and get people to support him and what he's saying. in the second instance, talking about saying that hillary wants to come and take your guns away, that's a lie. it is not true. which is another one of his tactics. he lived in a fact free zone for the past eight months in this campaign. and it doesn't matter how many people fact check him. you talked about it earlier. it is false what he said. it doesn't matter to him. he continues to say it. i think this is going to be a big challenge for the general election. but as long as hillary focuses on the facts and explains where she's coming from, the problem donald trump is going to run into is you talked about this, this -- he has got to get romney's voters plus. he's not getting any plus. a lot of those plus, the communities of color, women, millennials, they have a very optimistic view about what this country is and where it is going. and the kind of words and
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policies and not even policies, i can't call it that, but views that donald trump is putting out there, it is dark, it is about fear. that's not what they're going to respond to. >> it plays very well by saying hillary clinton wants to abolish the second amendment, which has been proven false by every political fact check that you can come up with, but you say it is true it plays very well to the base. but it doesn't play well, it may not play well as margaret says in a general. does that concern you? >> i want to answer two different things here. first of all, the question of banning guns, handguns were banned in washington, d.c. the case that hillary is saying she wants to overturn is a gun ban case. if you overturn the case, they would ban the guns all over again. now, let's talk about communities of color. >> ban the guns all over -- >> they have -- it is exactly the same. communities have been disproportionately hammered by the toxic cocktail of radical gun control and terrible economic policies sending our jobs overseas.
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donald trump is going to turn that around. he's also going to make sure we have tough on crime policies, reckless crime policies that are soft on crime, reduce property values, drive jobs away, they hurt our schools, these are the policies hillary supports and one more thing, on the question of nuance, you know when nuance would have been really great is in libya. did hillary have nuance then? no, she rushed in, overthrew a dictator, unleashed isis and the whole western world is suffering with hillary clinton's extreme trigger happy recklessness. >> okay, so this is sort of funny. i don't even know what to do. what donald trump is clearly preying on is our short attention span and the fact that whatever crazy thing he says, we're going to come on and talk about it. we can say until the cows come home it is a lie. we can keep saying that. we can talk about facts, but facts don't matter anymore in
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our society. we're all going to talk, just opinion and 99% of scientists can believe climate change is real, but it is still an opinion and not a fact. this is crazy. also, i would like to say that to call hillary clinton trigger happy while she's more hawkish than i would like is really the pot calling the kettle black and -- what we need is a president, who does not think with his thumbs. period. and that's what he's constantly doing. beyond the depth of his tweets. >> we have gone on -- >> donald trump is not the -- >> margaret, give us the final word here on this -- do facts really matter? as i sit here, i can say facts on both sides for hillary clinton and donald trump and people are not going to believe what i'll say. they'll say, you're a show for hillary. you're a show for donald trump. the facts don't seem to matter. >> i think the facts do matter. we have an informed and responsible citizenry who will
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go to the polls earnestly and elect the next president of the united states and it will be most likely either hillary clinton or donald trump. what it comes down to, though, we all know this, all of us, republicans and democrats know this, it comes down to essentially probably seven states, 35 counties, in those seven battleground states and independent voters in those counties, swing voters. who is running to win over those swing voters right now? and maybe right now matters less than in september and october. but that's who is going to win this election. and so what is interesting is you see donald trump running to the right after securing the nomination, rather than tacking toward the center. >> thank you for saying for an extra segment. fascinating conversation. thank you. when we come back, the latest on egyptair 804. investigators talking to anybody who might have had access to the plane before take off, from paris. what did they learn? but grandma, we use charmin ultra soft
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new clues emerging about egyptair flight 804. here to discuss, miles o'brien, david gallow, les aben and david sussi. miles, the flight data information revealed that the smoke detectors were activated in this plane. so what do you make of that? >> well, it takes you down two paths. the umbrella being that something bad was happening here
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on this aircraft. could it have been some sort of mechanical failure, some cargo which caught fire, or was it some sort of incendiary device or even a small bomb? if it was, in fact, a bomb, it couldn't have been a very big one or strategically placed one because it didn't blow the aircraft out of the sky. they were able to control it in some fashion or so it seems. a small device, in the category of terrorism, or some sort of mechanical issue. if it is the latter, that's a really extremely urgent thing we need to address. either way, it is urgent. if there is a fundamental problem with the aircraft, we need to know about it. >> take us inside the airplane. what happens on board the plane and in the cockpit when a smoke alarm is detected. >> you'll get a warning and an indication possibly or you just smell smoke. and then we have a procedure, we have memory items we have to go through. this is something we do on our training almost every time and what we'll could, first thing, put on our oxygen mask and then our smoke goggles, purge the
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system if necessary of oxygen, communicate with each other through the mask. and then we go to the rest of the checklist, which might be a smoke removal or more importantly find the source of the smoke and i would think in this particular circumstance, this was difficult to find where the source of smoke was. >> because they're doing that, is that maybe why there was no -- that could be one reason why there was no distress call from the cockpit. >> well -- >> they're trying to deal with it. >> they're trying to deal with the situation. they have to assess the problem. this is a very complicated checklist, it is very extensive. to try to determine the source of smoke really takes some time. so you don't have time to communicate. you're aviating and navigating. whatever was happening downstairs in the electronics compartment, may have disabled the communications. >> i believe, david, correct me if i'm wrong, you have a stronger opinion about what happened because of the information you're getting. >> i tend to take a more simplistic view because i started as a mechanic working on
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airplanes and to me, you look at two things. were these indication problems caused by something that caused them to fail and say, hey, there is something wrong here or actually indicating that there was smoke in the cockpit. there is two different ways to look at that part of it. either way, we still don't know what started it as miles said, could be an incendiary device or caused by something else inside that was a mechanical failure. that's too early to tell in my mind. looking at it simply, the window had a failure and progressed from there. >> let's talk about the debris that they're finding. and they need to find the bulk of this debris, correct? take us through the process. >> first thing is to get as much information from the surface of the ocean as they can get. because that will help you. what we need to do is find out where the impact point is. then begin the underwater search. and in this area, with the water depth there two miles, two and a
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half miles, it means mounting a full scale deep water equipment. >> this is very, very deep in the ocean, a mile or so -- >> about the same -- the deepest is about a little deeper than air france's, 3800 meters, 2 1/2 miles. >> how long did that take? >> two calendar years, but about eight weeks at sea. >> we have learned that the plane was on the ground at charles de gaulle for an hour, hour and a half, and talking about the security sweep and how many people had access to it. how much of a security sweep could have been done in that amount of time? >> should be enough time. should be enough time to go through that aircraft. what is the procedure? how they did it. what they looked at. were they lax that day. late at night. there is a lot of factors that go involved in this. the thing about security is you have to be vigilant every time and vigilant at a high level. the terrorists only have to get through that net once and there
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is -- they only have to exploit one weak link. that's the problem. >> so the should the number of people who have access to the airplane or whether it is a ground crew or -- should that be limited or that's kind of -- is that impossible to do? >> you need people to cater to the airplane, put cargo on the airplane. >> do you need 86,000 people at this particular airport to have a badge that gets them in secure area. >> charles de gaulle is a huge airport. and every airline has its own people for the most part. and, yeah, you do. there is a lot of people. >> 86,000 though? >> there is a lot of people involved with getting airplanes in and out. there really is. but back to what miles was saying, with reference to security, this airplane originated somewhere else other than charles de gaulle, so certainly the security check would have been done at the first departure, because it was up against the jet bridge. but it may not have been completed in the same methodical way once it got to charles de gaulle because it was a turn
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around. >> i want to continue talking about the number of people. if you look at the size, airports are gigantic, right. this is what, the third largest airport depending on your calculations of what you're using in europe. 86,000 people may sound like a huge number of people, but -- >> there is three shifts. it is 24 hours. so the first two shifts are heavier than the others. and there is rotable shifts as well. let's take it, divide it by three. 86,000 people, somewhere around 28, 29,000 people, that's one shift. how many millions of people go through that airport. in my mind, in my way of thinking, i was a government employee for a long time, but in my mind, that's not enough people. to me, the -- you look at the number of people going through, the number of people available on any particular shift, that's not that many people. >> you think there needs to be more people. if there are more people, are we kidding ourselves to think you can put that number of people
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through a security -- accurate security checks and background checks too in. >> it is interesting. we say 86,000 people beyond the security perimeter. but there are a lot of people who are cooking eggs for people inside the security perimeter but not on the ramp. the actual number of people who have access to the avonics bay, i'm sure that's much smaller subset. >> you're looking at someone who has the security clearance and at this particular airport, i have been told they go through just like us and get checked. many times here, i'll see people that they're kind of waved right through in american airports. >> they don't do that here. >> they don't do that here. >> they don't -- it has been a point of contention between congress thinks that to do this, very expensive, first of all, congress thinks airlines should pay for that. so they're in a deadlock. they're in a deadlock now. in the meantime, we can pay the
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price. >> let's talk about the recovery now because how many different agencies are involved in that. does it matter where in the world it is as to what agencies become involved and how long it takes? >> we're just talking about this, the mediterranean is almost different from noormal ocean because it is any spot in the mediterranean claimed by several countries. but i think the key players here are going to be greece and egypt and france probably. i don't know who else would be involved. >> in terms of the deep ocean, i don't think it is very adept. it is a capability those countries don't have. not used to having to go to the deep ocean. they called for help from the u.s. u.s. has some assets here and there. it is appalling to think we still are in a position so many years after air france 447 we still got to go through the task of going into the unknown world to retrieve a recorder to find out what happened when we could
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be streaming the information live from the plant. >> what are they up against? as i heard david earlier saying that the currents may be helping them out because it is a circular current. >> it is a little less daunting than thousands of miles from land where the currents are vicious and unpredictable. it is a bit more predictable and it still doesn't mean it is routine and still doesn't mean it is easy. it will take quite an effort to work the bottom, find the wreck and then do the forensic analysis. >> thank you, i appreciate you spending your friday evening with me. thanks a lot. we come back, the candidates going head to head on terror, who would keep americans safer. the call just came in. she's about to arrive. and with her, a flood of potential patients. a deluge of digital records. x-rays, mris. all on account...of penelope. but with the help of at&t, and a network that scales up and down on-demand, this hospital can be ready. giving them the agility to be flexible & reliable.
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tough talk on terror. here so discuss, julia cayenne and michael hersh. good evening to both of you. michael, early yesterday morning, when we were still learning about the fate of egyptair flight 804, donald trump tweeted this, said looks like another terrorist attack, airplane departed from paris, when we will get tough? smart and vigilant. great hate and sickness. he's been talking tough ever since calling it terrorism and saying that he knows who did it. how is this playing with the voters? >> well, i think that obviously every time there is an act of
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terror, like this, it plays into donald trump's hands to some degree. he jumped the gun with that tweet as he did previously with the paris terror attacks because there was no confirmation by that point and there isn't even now that it was an act of terror. but clearly trump's call for closing the borders, withdrawal, asking much greater demands of allies in terms of paying tribute to the united states and foreign policy, all of this does help him to create this, you know, scenario where americans want to sort of hunker down behind our borders. >> we talked about this when your book first came out, your book is called security mom. you talk about, you know, one issue voters. and homeland security is that one issue. is donald trump directing these kinds of comments and this quick reaction right to that audience? >> yeah, they are. the security mom is a demographic that came out
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of 9/11. a woman who were either democrat, independent or republican who voted because their sense of fear was very strong. and so they helped the republicans in 2002 and 2004. we saw her recede for a little bit. and it is clear that what trump is trying to do, not going to win the women's vote, but has to close that gap. it is to come on strong, on security issues. he doesn't care whether he's right or wrong. he may be right on this terrorism. but, you know, i told you so is not a foreign policy strategy. even if he was right, it is not exactly the most brilliant thing to say that early in a morning when we're all still assessing what in fact happened. but it is a tactic and it is a tactic that the democrats to retain the support that women are giving in large numbers to presumably hillary clinton will need to dress. i have to say, if there is an october surprise which may be a very minimal terrorism attack in the united states, i don't know
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how to predict that. i think that we can't know how the american public will react to that. >> michael, what do you think of that? >> i agree. it probably should be hillary clinton's greatest fear going into the fall, whether it is september, october, anywhere close to the election. another san bernardino, which trump again invoked today, lumping it together with the egyptair incident, would definitely play into his hands. and i don't know how much -- how many votes that might drive, but it clearly would be the kind of indictment as he would portray it of the obama administration's anti-terror policies and failure. >> yeah. they have reacted, had quite different approaches in reacting to these types of situations. let's listen to this. >> maybe perhaps that first tweet -- >> i can practically guarantee who blew it up and the plane went down -- >> donald, listen to yourself right now.
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>> mind set of a weak hillary clinton which is four more years of obama's not going to do it for our country. we are being taken advantage of by radical islamic terrorists and we are -- this world is changing. and another couple of planes go down, mika, and you're going to have a depression worldwide, the likes of which you've never seen because nobody's going to travel, there will be no anything. >> chris, it does appear that it was an act of terrorism, exactly how, of course, the investigation will have to determine. we're going to defeat them on the ground using our air power, equipping and training and supporting arab and kurdish fighters, we're going to drive them out of iraq, drive them out of their stronghold in raqqah, syria. >> reaction first from you, michael. >> well, the irony, you know, of trump's stance on this is that he's vowing to destroy isis and rebuild the military, but at the same time, he's preaching a kind of neo isolationism.
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doesn't quite square. hillary will probably end up running somewhat to the right of him in terms of u.s. intervention around the world. she has vulnerabilities in her record. it may well be that when -- if she continues to advocate strong action against isis, stronger, frankly, than her former boss, barack obama, has deployed, then she might be okay. it might be a wash in terms of the rhetoric of trump versus the policies that she's advocating. but it is a vulnerability because she spent four years as secretary of state, obama administration was involved in the intervention in libya, which trump never tires of saying contributed to the rise of isis and, of course, you know, if this terrible incident is linked to isis that will be a weakness on her part. >> i think this is fair, you won't change your response, but i want to ask you, we're used to
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politicians taking a more measured approach like hillary clinton's. is it time for a politician like donald trump to start talking tougher and tougher on terrorism? >> i have been in this world of national security my entire career. mostly men. mostly male field. so, like, tough -- words like tough and aggressive are not -- they're not policies. so, you know, just the fact he says it, he's saying the same exact thing that got us into the war in iraq. i'm absolutely certain this is isis. we're absolutely certain there is weapons of wmd. it is not the way that you want someone to lead this nation. and so i think this term unstable or instability, that you saw this morning on that show, is a term that might work for hillary clinton. look, he's -- as a candidate, he's managed to offend all of nato, great britain, mexico, most of south america, you can't have a foreign policy, you know, with australia, israel, and russia.
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like, you know, so part of this is just if he wants to be president, you are going to actually have to govern. and the instability you saw this morning, i think, was a sign of sort of the lack of temperament regardless of the substance that hillary clinton is clearly going to play up. >> thank you, julia, thank you, michael. bernie sanders says he's in it until the last ballot is cast, but can hillary clinton get him on her side? it's true what they say. technology moves faster than ever. the all-new audi a4, with apple carplay integration. the bud light party believes in change. that's why bud light has a new look... and we want to share it with everyone... from our national parks... to our furthest shores... jackpot!
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we thought the gop convention would be facing chaos, surprise, it is the democrats. joining us is maria cardona, super delegate committed to hillary clinton and sally cone who has endorsed bernie sanders. two people here say i know her, i'm in her -- you say -- >> her fellows program. >> gw alum. >> there you go. >> gw kind of night. >> mutual admiration. >> hillary clinton send bernie sanders a clear message yesterday, basically telling him to cool it. she said i'm the nominee and that's that. is she rung out of time to unify this party? >> i don't think so. i think this is something she discussed at length in the chris cuomo interview, she was there in 2008. i was there with her. this stuff is tough.
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this is hard. i know exactly what the bernie sanders supporters are going through. when you have this kind of passionate fight, where you put everything on the line, for your person, and you believe with everything in your soul that that person should be the nominee because they will be the best candidate and the best president of the united states. but then the math isn't there. the rules are there. it doesn't get to where you want it to be. at some point, you have to understand the most important thing is to beat the republicans. and i think that is what hillary clinton was focused on. >> i was surprised, because you had been such an ardent bernie sanders supporter and you said lately you're having trouble being a bernie sanders supporter. is this because of his tepid response after nevada? >> yeah, first of all, i remain a bernie supporter, committed to his vision, policies, his ideas, what he stands for, both in this race and i think he's been good for the race, good for hillary, and i think he'll be good for the future of the party and the
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country. bar none. there is no buts. this is -- the reason i am feeling a little frustrated is because of bernie's but that i thought the -- didn't come off right, did it -- that the -- i was disappointed by what happened in nevada, yes, no chairs thrown, yes, it may have been played up by the media, we like to play up violence and intention and infliction. but the supporters behaved poorly in that moment and not strategically or we may be talking about what happened at the convention. but more importantly i'm disappointed in the response from the sanders campaign. i would like to see them not issue a statement that has a big but and says anger was justified and the system is rigged and blah, blah, blah, but condemns that kind of bad behavior, it happened in nevada and happens too often from not all, but a small set of sanders supporters. no place for it, in place for it in a nonviolent progressive revolutionary movement.
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>> permits issued for protesters and protests in philadelphia. are you concerned about what is going to happen there? >> i'm a community organizer by training. i like protests. i like civil disobedience. i believe in everything that can come about through that kind of engaged direct participation. at the same time, part of the reason i'm motivated to support bernie sanders is because he's a candidate that stands for nonviolence. he's against hillary clinton's hawkish hawkishness. this is not a nonviolent movement. >> i think what i want to say is that the difficult part is really that senator sanders just doesn't have a long-standing loyalty to the democratic party. so part of what makes a candidate step aside and essentially rally around the nominee is a realization that the institution of the party is larger than the candidacy, that one is undertaking. and this is where i think there is some tension in what is
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happening right now. you know, when secretary clinton, then senator clinton steps aside for then senator barack obama, she was also very committed to the democratic party. she and her husband had been involved with the democratic party for decades. and this is where i think there are some issues in terms of senator sanders, you know, had not really been affiliated with, nor had he engaged and run as the democrat before. he has openly admitted that really he's running for the democratic nomination because he sees it as a viable vehicle to the presidency. so there are some issues and i think there will continue to be issues. >> hillary clinton is running for the democratic nomination because she sees it as viable too. i think bernie would be a better -- do more for the democratic party if he felt, his campaign felt like the democratic party was doing more for him.
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there have been super delegates in the tank for hillary, because she's the establishment candidate and super delegates are linked to the establishment, and -- >> laura, why do you think republicans were able to get their act together before democrats? >> well, it is important to understand that the two political parties are in different places historically and structurally. it is true that when a party is coming out of the presidency, that the fissures that have essentially been laying dormant for a little while start to re-emerge. and the one, you know, real problem with this democratic process on the democratic side of the aisle was that there was always an assumption there wouldn't be competition for secretary clinton. and so i do think, this is where i do have sympathy for the sanders folks, because at the end of the day, there needed to be a vibrant competition at this moment to really help the party
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kind of resolve where it will go next. >> speaking of that competition, i know you want to respond, look at this polling before you respond, cbs news and new york times, bernie sanders beats donald trump by 13 points, hillary clinton beats him by 6 points. and bernie beats trump and trump beats hillary. are you worried? >> no, i'm not worried. polls this far out mean nothing. just ask president romney. who another this point was ahead in the polls. number two, bernie sanders has never been the target of a sustained brutal attack by the republicans. and, in fact, i think they want to build him up so that -- because they prefer to run against him because they believe they could eviscerate him in a general election versus somebody like hillary clinton who has sustained and gotten back up after 30 years of attacks from republicans. the other thing, though, i want to say, about the rules for the
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democratic party, the sanders campaign knew what these rules were from the very beginning. from a year ago, more than a year ago, when there were inklings about his running. they knew what the rules were. it wasn't until he started losing that they started complaining and saying that the system was rigged. so, you know, are there ways we can change the system to better reflect democracy? absolutely. you know what? let's work with the bernie sanders campaign and supporters to make that happen. >> stand by, everyone. we're going to continue this conversation. we're going to talk about reports that the dnc will offer an olive branch to bernie sanders but is it too little, too late as charles stephens' barrel on his farewell voyage over niagara falls... but stood up to any kind of weather... no matter if the forecast is this... or this... or this. if a stain can make your deck beautiful and survive
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any amount of torture... is it still stain? find arborcoat, only at your benjamin moore retailer. they keep telling me "drink more water." "exercise more." i know that. "try laxatives..." i know. believe me. it's like i've. tried. everything! my chronic constipation keeps coming back. i know that. tell me something i don't know. (vo) linzess works differently from laxatives.
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. -- democrats back to talk about it. we were talking about is it too late for the party to be unified. you want to talk about super delegates. >> let me just say, super delegates are not actually given a defense enough in our world today. i think what people don't really understand is that to be a super delegate, you have to be a party leader or elected official. that means that you are working for the party engaged with the
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party, doing party building activities, when there are no candidates at the top of the ballot. you are actually doing the heavy lift of trying to keep people engaged with the political party, in off years. and it does seem to me that actually it is only fair that these individuals have a vote and have a say in this process about who actually will represent. >> i have to tell you, the only person in this room, and there are people here who are operating the cameras and directors and everybody shaking their head no. sally cone is going no. maria is the only one nodding her head up and down saying yes. >> i love maria. i mean, like, love her. >> here it comes. >> not saying but, but, just kidding. listen, there is no question that having a system like that favors establishment candidates. by the way, that's part of the reason that, look at the history of t democratic -- there is no reason we have to have party
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primaries in this country, that and it is not remanded by the constitution. they changed the rules, the rules have been changed over time and they said, we want to have a more participatory process and let the voters have the say in who becomes the nominee. we're going to maintain some establishment voice in that process. >> 15%. >> does it favor -- >> it is worth a healthy debate going forward about whether to maintain -- >> hold on. laura, does it say -- the super delegate will -- does it favor establishment candidates? >> here is the reality, what are you calling an establishment candidate? this is part of the problem. you know, to be active with your party, if you ever have gone to a precinct, local meeting in an off year election, you get to meet, like, the five other people in your town who care about, you know, political issues. and i will tell you, all of these sort of johnny come
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latelies to the party are in some way or another kind of like fans who support a sports team only when they're winning. >> bandwagon jumpers. go ahead, maria. >> what you said is not true about what happened in 2008. hillary clinton was the establishment candidate in 2008. she started with support of the super delegates when barack obama actually started getting more pledged delegates than her, the super delegates, by the way, they have never overturned the will of the people, they started supporting him. so let's get -- it doesn't matter, because at the end of the day, the candidate who goes into the convention, with the most pledged delegates, is the one who is going to win the nomination. >> can i say two things here. first of all, the fact, i said it before, the fact we're making a distinction, we talk about this, is a victory for bernie sanders, we were melding the two together. and we agree on that. number two, let us not draw
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false equivalency about what is happening between the democrats and the republicans. the democrats have a healthy context between two candidates who have slightly different but both positive visions for how to help the american people and this country do better and fare better versus the republicans who have deep divides about whether we kick people out of the country or lock people up or ban more people from this country or more tax breaks to rich people. >> -- unifying behind donald trump for the most part. >> barely. >> well -- >> they're not all there. >> on the democratic side, they're not having -- i want to ask you this, laura. so many democratic leaders are coming out and saying they're concerned about a revolt from bernie sanders supporters from the convention. what do you think? you think that will happen? maria talked to dnc folks about that. what are you hearing about that as well? >> i tend to believe what you'll see is those people who actually are affiliated as independents or declined to state. those people may not join in and
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lean toward the democratic party when hillary clinton is the nominee. but i'm not sure that many of them would have anyway. in other words, if you look at really who has been voting for bernie sanders, in most of the states, she actually has won the majority of the partisans when they showed up in the ballots. he's just won large, large numbers of independents. now, what that says about how strong the party will be in november is going to be another story. >> all right, thank you. i have to run. have a great weekend, everyone. i appreciate you coming on. my belly pain and constipation? they keep telling me "drink more water." "exercise more." i know that. "try laxatives..." i know. believe me. it's like i've. tried. everything! my chronic constipation keeps coming back. i know that. tell me something i don't know. (vo) linzess works differently from laxatives. linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation, or chronic constipation. it can help relieve your belly pain,
7:56 pm
and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements that are easier to pass. do not give linzess to children under 6 and it should not be given to children 6 to 17. it may harm them. don't take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach-area pain and swelling. talk to your doctor about managing your symptoms proactively with linzess.
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narrator: sometimes it's the things that the rest of us don't see that can make all the difference in california's classrooms. it's part of my responsibility as someone who's experienced to allow the door to be open for younger teachers. the teamwork between the teachers is essential. when we collaborate with each other... ...it makes everyone stronger. by helping my fellow teachers be successful, i'm helping kids be successful. narrator: the california teachers association: educators who know quality public schools make a better california for all of us.
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educators who know quality public schools little miss muffet sat on eating her curds and whey. along came a burglar who broke into her home and ransacked the place making off with several valuable tuffets. fortunately geico had recently helped her with homeowners insurance. she got full replacement on her tuffets. the burglar was later captured when he was spotted with whey on his face. call geico and see how much you could save on homeowners insurance. (man) hmm. ♪hat do you think? (stranger) good mornin'! ♪ (store p.a.) attention shoppers, there's a lost couple in the men's department.
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(vo) there's a great big un-khaki world out there. explore it in a subaru crosstrek. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. in richmond, extra virginia nearly 40% live in poverty. this week's cnn hero has become an unlikely father figure teaching kids in richmond's public housing the sport of mountain bike racing. >> what a lot of people can't see is that our kids have the equivalent of ten suitcases each of baggage that they're carrying on that bike. these kids can tell me to piss
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off at anytime. what am i going to do? there are connects being made. this is a war to me. it is me against the circumstances that the kids live in. >> go to cnnheroes.com to see the full story. you can nominate someone you think should be the 2016 hero of the year. that's it for us tonight. see you back here on monday. anthony bourdain parts unknown starts now. some people must live in great spaces. where the sky goes on forever, where everyone must bend to the land. where to hunt, to fish, to sleep under that big sky aren't activities, but a way of life. >> it was the thing here in those mountains that sang. i like. it is very peaceful.

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