tv CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow CNN May 21, 2016 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
from on board a ship as teams pull out of the water, human remains, plane debris, life jackets, aircraft seats and suitcases from the water. you can see them there. we can also now play for you the first audio transmissions from inside the cockpit. the pilot speaking to air traffic controllers before his plane went down. let's have a listen. >> helloholo egyptair 804. flight level 370. squawk number 7624. >> egyptair 804. >> thank you so much, good night. >> that was communication from the plane with a ground station in zurich as the plane began its journey. the airbus a 320 bound for cairo went down minutes after intering egyptian airspace during what was otherwise a routine flight
from paris. what we do now know is that moments before it plummeted from 37,000 feet, the plane sent automated warning messages indicating smoke was detected in the front part of the aircraft. egyptians standing by their belief this plane was likely brought down by an act of terrorism. but without those crucial black boxes, it's still impossible to know for sure whether someone inside the cockpit steered the plane into the sea or whether this plane was blown out of the sky by a bomb hidden somewhere on board. or even if this was simply a catastrophic midair mechanical failure. all those open questions at this point. our cnn reporters are working their sources and we have our teams fanned out across the world. cnn's becky anderson is live for us in cairo. nic robertson international d diplomatic reporter is in crete.
becky you interviewed the egyptian for many. they were first out of the gate saying this was likely terrorism. i wonder if today the foreign minister shares that view? >> they haven't ruled it out. but they are keeping an open mind. and rightly so i think. we talked about a lot of issues, not least this ongoing search in the mediterranean. he said it isn't clear how long that will take. but did say that egypt was very grateful for the international effort and help. that is being implemented there and the you thiu.s. amongst otht was involve. he said it's important now they retrieve the black box and data programming in order they can begin to provide some sort of picture of what happened and
why. not least the foreign minister told me to provide some sort of closure for the families of the victims. lest we forget there were 66 souls on board this flight. we also talked about the claims of smoke in the cabin of the aircraft. ahead of this crash. he said he couldn't verify those claims, but he did say that it was important that those claims remain an element of what he described as a jigsaw puzzle that has to be compiled. we also talked about the importance of the investigation being a coordinated effort. this is what he told me. >> we have to define where the plane has gone down and the depth, where it is, and of course, our collaboration with the various partners. all have offered. and all of the offers have been most gratefully accepted, the united states, the french, the
british and others. russians today in my conversation with foreign minister lavrov, we are eager to cooperate with all of them. not only to get to the bottom of it, but also in respect of closure for families of the deceased. >> and clearly as important to the egyptians as anybody else they get to the bottom of what happened and why, during that flight, egyptair 804. jim? >> no question, becky anderson in cairo speaking with the egyptian foreign minister there. i want to talk with our panel of aviation experts. we have cnn aviation safety analyst and former faa safety inspector, david succi, also a cnn intelligence analyst, boeing 777 commercial pilot les abend.
and justin green. great to have you on. among you your collective experience, examining investigating prior airline mishaps, i want to draw on that if i can. the newest information we have from the acars transmissions, automatic electronic transmissions from the planes. smoke detected in a lavatory in the plane, avionics bay below the cockpit. over the course of mnlinutes. what does that tell you? i know it's not conclusive, when you see those messages over a series of minutes, does that make it more likely in your view it was a terrorist event or mechanical failure? what are you drawing from that information? >> the event that started it, jim, it's difficult to speculate at all on that. we can do and follow what we do know, the anti-icing system in that sliding window is what first gave the alert. the alert is telling us something went wrong in that
area, what it was, we don't know. there have been a history of that window on various other aircraft as well. it's suspicious but inconclusive. the way it propagated over a couple of minutes gives clues as far as it can rule out a massive bomb that went off. that simply doesn't line up with these type of facts we're getting now. >> interesting, you say that that data over those minutes rules out an explosion, to be fair and this is always the case, it's an investigation that's early. we've spoken to other experts who said it's possible all those signals could indicate a plane that was prbreaking up in the a after a catastrophic event including the possibility of an explosion. les, if you could pipe in, fror the sake of our viewers this is speculation based on incomplete information. is that fair interpretation of
this evidence? >> anything is still on the table. i tend to lean with david a little bit on the technical side of it. we disagree about the window aspect of it. i think it's very simple or more simple event where something occurred down in the electronic compartment that just set up all sorts of malfunctions. it originated there, maybe an insei incendiary device, maybe a fire smoke situation that just went everywhere into that airplane that the crew had to handle. and basically you have fly by wire airplane no longer simplifying it, has the ability to control itself. because you can't control an airplane electronically when it has no electronics. you go back to some accidents, egyptair back in july of 2011 had an oxygen system on the ground in cairo blow up. because of bad wiring situation or faulty wiring situation that created a fire. everybody was safe and evacuated
safely, including the crew. and then in 2013, there was an a 320, petra airlines had an oxygen cylinder blow up. it was a mishap was the way they labelled it. it was close to the electronic compartment. you know, devices within the airplane it is designed for the airplane could have also created that issue. >> so, i mean, just, again, for the steake of our viewers, it leaves open multiple explanation as to what brought the plane down. as les was speaking, we've been showing the images of what limited debris has bind discovered so far. you see pictures of airline seats, some clothing there. you see even a life jacket. do you learn anything from what you're seeing there based on your experience, or is this just, you know, the lightest
stuff, floats to the surface in any sort of air event like this? >> i'm an attorney representing the families, and i first want to say how painful it must be for the families to see this. but what -- we're talking about acars, acars was the direct evidence in this case that it was speculation, a lot of speculation, probably too much from some people that should know better before there was any direct evidence. but the actual wreckage pieces, what they're collecting now also is direct evidence. the investigators, people like david are going to go and test all of that wreckage for bomb residue. if there's bomb residue on it that's going to answer that big question. right now as cnn reporters have all been very careful to point out, it's too soon to draw any firm conclusions. >> bob, one piece of evidence that is missing so far is a claim of responsibility. if this was a terror attack.
in your experience, without one, does that mean it wasn't a terror attack, or does it decrease the chances? do groups like this sometimes wait to make such a claim? >> i think it decreases the chances of terrorism, if you took down an airplane like this it would be a great strike against the egyptian government and the french government as well. on the other hand, there's always the possibility -- this has happened in the past where they're testing new bombs. this is total speculation. and what you would do with a bomb like this is make is small, put it on the ground either in paris or cairo or tunisia where it stopped before. some sort of incendiary device in the avionics bay. and you wouldn't see a big flash, you wouldn't see the cracking of the frame, necessarily, it would take out the avionics. and special forces are taught to bring airplanes down like this. so that just -- sheer speculation.
but we can't rule it out. we wouldn't see on the baggage in the water or even the bodies signs of explosive residue. you're going to need to get the black box whether this speculation holds any water. >> that could take some time because the waters are so deep there in the eastern med. thanks very much for lending us your expertise today. coming up the crash of egyptair flight 804 brings a new focus of debate into the presidential race. here in the u.s. with the leading candidates giving extremely different responses. so who looks more presidential? >> exactly how, of course, the investigation will have to determine. >> what just happened about 12 hours ago? plane got blown out of the sky. if anybody thinks it wasn't blown out of the sky, you're 100% wrong. >> i'll talk live with former presidential candidate and former governor of new mexico, bill richardson after this break.
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abdbloating?in? you may have ibs. ask your doctor if non-prescription ibgard is right for you. ibgard calms the angry gut. available at cvs and walgreens. welcome back. since the announcement of his presidential run, bernie sanders' political revolution has focused its sights at the top of the democratic party. jake tapper spoke with sanders moments ago. jake, what was his message to you today? >> well, we asked him -- his campaign has been saying some very, very tough things about congressman debbie wassermann schultz who is the chair of the democratic national committee and the sanders' campaign has suggested she hasn't been neutral, that she's been doing things to help secretary of
state hillary clinton and to hurt bernie sanders. so we asked what that might mean practically when it came to the august 30th democratic primary in florida that wassermann schultz faces. take a listen. your campaign and many of your supporters have argued that congressman debbie wassermann schultz, the chair of the democratic national committee has not been neutral in her position as chair. your campaign manager jeff weaver has been very critical. she is being challenged right now in a primary by tim cunova, a law professor who opposed the pacific trade deal. he's raised a million dollars. you've been calling for a revolution in florida, are you with wassermann schultz or are you with her opponent? >> well, clearly, i favor her opponent. his views are much closer to mine than is wassermann schultz's. let me also say this, in all due
respect to the current chairperson. if elected president she would not be reappointed to be chair of the dnc. >> as i don't need to tell you, this is very tough talk for senator sanders to say he's going to support wassermann schultz's primary opponent. and that if he wins, he effectively will end her reign at the dnc. while senator sanders is a political force and able to raise a lot of money, in the march presidential primary in florida, he only got 30.5% in wassermann schultz's district as opposed to clinton who got 68%. how many people in her district are feeling the bern, is subject to debate, jim. >> he says the battle within the democratic party is over disappeared as well. thanks very much. you can see his full interview with bernie sanders on state of the union tomorrow, sunday,
9:00 a.m. eastern here on cnn. an event like the egyptair crash during the height of an election season can help voters better understand a candidate and how they would respond to tragedy and foreign policy challenges. donald trump fired off on twitter blaming terrorism and the lack of security. and saying, that he would fix it. while hillary clinton waited until after she was briefed to respond. she then came on cnn and said that terror was likely, but she still hedged. so what could this mean for election day? joining me now someone who is very well-qualified to talk about this, former new mexico governor bill richardson. also, of course, former u.s. ambassador to the un and also a former presidential candidate. to be transparent for our viewers we should say you have endorsed hillary clinton. at your view from your view, looking at those two responses there. donald trump going right at the terrorism angle, blaming muslims, and he went on to reinforce his call for a
temporary ban on muslims coming to the u.s. hillary clinton giving a more measured response. what do you think the political remificati ramifications of the comments are? >> the political ramifications are going to be that voters will see that hillary clinton has experience, can be commander in chief. donald trump is unprepared. he's shooting from the hip. we don't know whether it's a terrorist act. we don't know who's responsible. he's kind of blaming france, it originated inferenc france. he doesn't say anything about the deaths, condolences. it was a political statement where he's trying to get votes. trying to alarm voters. trying to act tough. well, you don't have all the facts. i mean, what if it was pilot error, malfunction of the plane. you don't know that. possibly terrorism, but you wait until you have the all information before you shoot from the hip.
foreign policy is not a reality show. foreign policy decisions like this are life and death. they're not who's going to garner more political advantage. and that's what trump tries to do on almost every issue. >> but let me ask you this question, ambassador, of course this political season has surprised many people, including the enduring support for donald trump. lo and behold he's the presumptive republican candidate. is it possible this could be to this favor? there are voters who will say, listen everybody else is hedging, hemming and hawing. but get at some of those voters who are frustrated with the way washington works? >> well, there's no question it helps his base. but i don't see it expanding his base. i think trump has a very large way to go in convincing women voters. in convincing moderate voters.
in convincing elements in his party, much less democrats. and certainly, when national security experts weigh in on donald trump and say this man is not prepared to be commander in chief because of his limited knowledge, his shooting from the hip, i don't believe it's going to help him. there's a lot of frustrated angry voters, they're angry about the economy, lower wages, because they're not getting a piece of the pie. national security, that's the most important job in a president. right now, i believe hillary clinton has big advantages. she's been secretary of state. she's handled terrorism crisis. he has been somebody that knows world leaders she's waiting for the latest information. she's acting like a president. >> i understand the case you're making there. there's a new cnn orc poll that
finds more than half of americans think the fight against isis is going badly. trump tweeted this earlier today. while our wonderful president was out playing golf, tsa is falling apart just like our government. airports are a total disaster. i wonder you're aware of this as well, whatever the progress on the ground many voters have the idea the war against isis is not going well. hillary clinton served in the obama as secretary of state. senior foreign policy role. does that -- do those negative reviews of the fight against isis stick to her and damage her in the general election? >> well, i don't believe so because she was secretary of state, the president is commander in chief. i by the way, think the president handled the terrorism issue successfully. yes, there is still huge problems with isis. it's growing. we need a broader strategy of european support. arab support. but at the same time, i think
hillary clinton has said, look, there are some areas where i would act differently. i would deal with a no fly zone in syria. i would increase the number of special forces there. i mean, there are little issues where i think she has staked out her own position. as she should. so i don't see this as damaging issue to hillary clinton. there's frustration out there. but at the same time, on foreign policy, jim, you've got to be responsible. you've got to be prepared. you have to have preparatory work. you have to understand the military. you can't go out in a -- you know, you're fired like trump says. this is what i'm going to do. i'm going to talk to kim jong un, this would be disaster rewarding bad behavior with the north koreans without any preparatory work. without saying to the north koreans you've got to reduce your nuclear arsenal. that's what voters are going to be looking at, experience -- >> let me ask you about one of
the primary disagreements between trump and clinton. here on cnn friday secretary clinton said trump's temporary ban on muslims would make it harder to defeat terrorism. as you know that's not a position she's alone in. you had general david petraeus make the same point last week. trump has responded to clinton's comments, those kinds of criticisms, here's what he had to say. >> it's one of the dumber statements i've ever heard. she is so ill equipped to be the president. in fact, if anything it's just the opposite. because they're going to have to learn that we can't take this anymore. they're going to have to turn in the people that are bombing the planes, they know who the people are. we're not going to find the people by just continuing to be so nice and so soughft. i have many muslim friends and they agree. >> donald trump is clearly la latched on to terrorism and fear of terrorism potentially in his favor when the attacks happen.
he blames the administration. is that a political risk for clinton in this general election, that those fears will feed trump's supporters? >> no. and i think voters are going to see you don't build walls to defeat terrorism. you don't ban muslims to defeat terrorism. you cooperate with muslim americans in the united states to get information, to get intelligence. you build support with allies in the arab world and egyptians, so many others that are suffering from terrorism. you don't do that by insulting, you don't do that by making bombastic statements. all i heard him say is she's ill equipped. for what? what about the substance, donald? what about the issues? you don't talk about them. it's all personal insults. it's all bombasts, all trying to rile your supporters into yelling more. that's not foreign policy. yelling, accusing is not foreign
policy. >> governor, bill richardson, thanks very much for taking the time today. >> thank you, jim. coming up, inside the search for the egyptair jet. rough weather conditions could soon make it harder to find the needle in the haystack the key flight data and voice recorders. we'll have more, please stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ the captivating lexus rc, with available 306 horsepower. this is the pursuit of perfection.
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welcome back. i'm jim sciutto in washington. we're back with the latest in the search for egyptair flight 804. this is our first look at debris gathered from the plane after it crashed into the eastern mediterranean. this new video appearing to show mangled pieces of the planes and personal effects, shoes fabric from seats, even an unwrapped life jackets. all of these pulled from the waters along with the finding of human remains as well. as to what brought down the plane that remains a mystery. france is confirming that on board systems detected smoke in parts of the plane moments before it plunged into the water. as searchers battle rough seas and a 40 mile radius search grid, conditions there are deteriorating fast. nic robertson has the latest on the search from the greek island of crete. nic? >> reporter: there are several things we can learn from the
debris so far. what the greek air force is telling us is that they believe now that because some debris has been found that allows them to focus a little more tightly on the search and recovery airport. their aircraft are on stand by today. the visibility from the skies is not so good. they say the radius of the circle of the area they're looking at now is about 40 miles, about 5,000 square miles to search. but the conditions for searching today are much tougher, not just of visibility from the air but looking out at sea. the wind is up, the waves are up. there are white tops, of course, the pieces of debris that have been found so far are relatively small. they're going to be much harder to spot when the water, when the sea is rough. the recovery effort is 100 miles out to sea from here. this is relatively in shore waters, it's quite choppy here further out to sea much rougher. this is going to make the
recovery effort, looking for small debris much harder. the debris, using tidal patterns to figure out where the black boxes are, the voice and data recorder. nic robertson, cnn, the island of crete, greece. >> nic robertson there not far from the search area. coming up, investigators interview the ground crew that worked on that egyptair jet just before aircraft. how many people had hands on access to the plane? the number will probably shock you. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon.
responsibility. paris' charles de gaulle airport is under heavy scrutiny. max foster is joining me now from paris. former head of the cia has told cnn he has concerns about that airport. one figure that has stuck in my mind, i'm sure would shock many of our viewers, some 85,000 worke workers at that airport have red badges which allow them access to secure areas, including where this plane was. right now, are investigators looking at everyone who had those badges? >> reporter: well, the issue we have is that at the moment the french passengers are still just missing in official terms until a french victim has been found, you don't get the official investigation ramped up to a level where we get official updates. they're not calling it terror. today, a lot of the families of those passengers met with officials both government and
aviation officials here in paris. they had so many questions. those officials are tied to what the egyptian investigators are saying to them. the egyptians are leading. never the less that didn't stop the many questions, particularly about security. here's a representative of those passengers' families. >> translator: the question of security at the airport was raised persistently. two or three times. and provoked an answer from authorities. the airport authority said that all airport personnel are subject to strict controls, but the families have a lot of questions and had very few answers today. the real issue is if it's terrorism it will raise concerns about security at paris airport. >> reporter: our sources are saying they're going through a verification process. what they're doing is checking all that video footage and checking out anyone who could have had any contact with that
plane as it sat on the tarmac here. >> max foster on the story there in paris. coming up right after this break, a geologist, a photographer and a young man, just engaged the new details we're learning about the passengers on board that doomed egyptair flight. question, are my teeth yellow? ...have you tried the tissue test? ugh, yellow... what do you use? crest whitestrips crest 3d whitestrips whiten... 25 times better than a leading whitening toothpaste i passed the tissue test. oh yeah. crest whitestrips are the way to whiten [ "dreams" by beck ] hmmmmm... hmmmmm... the turbocharged dream machine. the volkswagen golf gti. part of the award-winning golf family.
they come from 12 different countries. they are adults, children, two of them were infants. some of them were was like this woman a mother of three. others liwere flying to visit family. >> reporter: the crushing reality setting in. their loved ones, gone. we were at a press conference he says they said nothing. some people just collapsed, then left. at cairo's mosque, a special friday prayer for the victims of flight 804. a painful gathering of friends and family. devastated an uncle of the plane's co-pilot s. >> he was about to get married. he just introduced me to his --
>> reporter: ten crew members, 56 passengers, two of them infants. all looking forward to reunions and new adventures in a disoriented turn their loved ones in shock. inconsolable. this woman was a canadian living in cairo, a mother of three. the school her kids attended posted this on facebook. she was a devoted and loving mother always there to offer a helping hand. a geologist from wales working on egypt. the 40-year-old leaves behind two infant daughters. >> he was a very admirable person. a lot of people admired him for his strength and values. >> pascal hess from france. almost didn't make the flight. he lost his passport. he was 51. >> this man was on his way to
egypt to visit his father. he was said to be always smiling. the family of the head flight attendant on 804 says she was just starting a new life. >> she was a new lewed that got married a few months before. with debris from the plane being found, hope overtaken by grief. the bud light party believes in change. that's why bud light has a new look... ...and we want to share it with everyone... jackpot!
donald trump's endorsement by the nra is giving voters a sneak peek into the potential showdown between him and hillary clinton. during his acceptance speech he went after the democratic front runner telling the crowd she would do away with the second amendment and put people living in unsafe neighborhoods at risk. >> but hillary clinton wants to abolish the second amendment. remember that. we're not talking about changing it. she wants to abolish the second amendment. we're not going to let that happy i can tell you that right now. we're going to preserve it, cherish it and take care of it.
they keep chipping away. they talk about the magazines, the bullets. we're going to take care of it. >> hillary clinton quickly fired back with this tweet saying, quote, you're wrong, donald trump. we can uphold second amendment rights while preventing senseless gun preventing violen. joining me now, a hillary clinton supporter, and boris, a republican strategist and donald trump supporter. in his 2000 book, "the america we deserve," he said he supported a ban on assault weapons, and in that book, he argued in favor of a longer waiting period to purchase a gun, both positions the nra, steadfastly opposes. now he says he would banish gun free zones and flipped on these positions. which position of donald trump do you believe?
>> 2000 was 16 years ago so the nra endorsed on him on his positions now. people of all positions -- >> that's not an evolution, though. that's a reversal. >> well, whatever you want to call it. donald trump was clear what the positions are now, and those positions are, preserve the second amendment and enforce laws on the books and keep criminals off the streets, which is much more important about a discussion in 1999 or 2000. >> maria, if i can ask you, because this is actually on the crime issue. this is something that hillary clinton is taking from both sides, you have trump saying she would be soft on crime. many in the african-american community blaming the bill clinton bill leading to mass incars race. how does the issue help or hurt her and walk the fine line in the general election? >> well, actually, she walk the line quite successfully.
one of the first things out there was a well thought out proposal on criminal justice reform. she's spoke out against the 1994 legislation she has the support of the african-american community evidenced by the kinds of percentages of votes she's had throughout the primary within this community, and this is something she's going to continue to talk about. gun safety is a huge issue of incredible importance, not just to the african-american community, but to americans in general, and you can see that americans do want more restrictions that would focus on gun safety, and what is laughable -- well, not laughable because it is a serious issue. >> not americans -- >> it's embarrassing when you have somebody like donald trump who is just completely outright lying about hillary clinton's position on the second
amendment, but, clearly, this is somebody who lived in a fact-free zone in the past nine months versus hillary clinton who put out well thought out proposals that would actually keep our second amendment rights, but at the same time, focus on gun safety, which is what the majority of americans want. >> boris, a chance to respond, saying trump is outright lying. >> hillary clinton is clear she wants to dismantle the second amendment. >> she never said that. that's ridiculous. >> what trump is saying is this, the key is not the guns. the key is the violent offenders. there's a program in west virginia called project exile saying anyone commits a felony with a gun, they go to jail for five years, federal court, no parole, no early release. they said it was a bad program, but that program diminished murders of guns by 60%. that's the kind of programs
trump and republicans put into place when trump becomes president. that's what we should be concentrating on. we have to fix the mental health system in america. the one key that is present in all mass murders in america, all the folks had severe mental health issues. we have to help these people before they commit terrible murders. >> maria -- >> they are criminals they will commit a crime no matter the gun laws in place. we have to get to them beforehand. >> mental health is a huge issue in this, absolutely. if those were the things coming out of trump's mouth, we would be having a different conversation. here's the problem. he doesn't talk about those things on the air or talk about his past positions because, clearly, he's flip-flopped -- >> he's been very clear, very clear. >> he has gone from supporting an assault weapons ban and additional wait times, and let's remember that after president obama talked so eloquently about
the challenge and what to do from a policy position, after the massacre at newtown, donald trump tweeted, i'm with the president on this as is the rest of america. it's ridiculous. they are hypocriticahypocritica. he's a hypocrite, and he's lying. >> we have to leave it there. i appreciate you diving right into this, and we'll have you back. thanks very much. >> thanks. looking ahead, stormy skies, choppy seas, coming up, the challenges of searching for the wreckage of egyptair thousands of feet beneath the surface the med rainian. that's how deep the waters are there. business, legalzoom has your back. over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. man, it's like pure power at your finger tips.
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(vo) making the most out ofs every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. in virginia not far from here in the nation's capital, nearly 40% of children live in poverty. this week's cnn hero is an unlikely father figure, teaching kids in public housing communities about mountain bike racing. >> what a lot of people can't see is that our kids have the equivalent of ten suitcases each of baggage that they are carrying on that bike.
these kids can tell me to piss off at any time, what can i do? there's connections being made. it's war to me. it's me against the circumstances the kids live in. ♪ you are in the cnn news room, we are live today from washington, and coming up this hour, what one aviation expert calls the scandal at the heart of the egyptair crash. search teams looking for the wreckage crippled by technology dating back to the 1960s. more on that question later, but, first, a major development in the search for egyptair. we have the first images of debris from that missing jet. mangled seats. you can see them there. suitcases, shoes, even an unwrapped life vest. cnn can now also play for you the first audio transmissions from inside the cockpit, the