tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN July 5, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
that does it for us. thanks for watching. time for "cnn tonight" with don lemon. >> on the day after the fourth of july weekend, the real fireworks are on the campaign. when you're the first woman with a shot at the white house, you know one thing for sure, the men at the top are going to have a lot to say about you. less listen to james comey's blistering statement about her e-mail handling. >> there is evidence that they
were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. for example, seven e-mail chains concerned matters
that were classified at the top secret special access program at the time they were sent and received. those chains involve secretary of state both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails about those same matters. there is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in secretary clinton's position or in positions with whom she was corresponding about those matters should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. >> now donald trump says this in north carolina. >> and we've got hillary clinton, who's weak, who's ineffecti ineffective, she'll never be able to do the job. her judgment is horrible. look at her judgment on e-mails.
who would do it? look at her judgment. her judgment is horrible. when you hear what was said by the fbi director today and you listen -- you listen to what he said and in the middle of it he was talking about so many different things. he talked about extremely careless, she was extremely careless. that's a tremendous word. you didn't have to be careless. you didn't even have to really know that what you were doing was wrong and you're guilty because we're talking about serious stuff. we're talking about the life blood of our country. we're talking about the safety of our people. the laws are very explicit. stupidity is not a reason that you're going to be innocent, okay? it's not a reason. and i don't happen to believe that it was stupidity, okay? but even stupidity is not a reason. and, boy, what they've done.
and she should not be allowed to serve as president of the united states. we now know that she lied to the country when she said she did not send classified was in on her server. she lied. >> and president obama with an entirely different view of the woman he
once ran against and now supports. >> i saw how deeply she believes in the things she fights for. and i saw how you can count on her, how she won't waiver and she won't back down and she will not quit now matter how difficult the challenge and no matter how fierce the opposition. and if there's one thing i can tell you, charlotte, is those things matter.
that's things matter. the truth is nobody fully understands the challenges of the job of president until you've actually sat at that desk. so you can't fully understand what it means to make li life-and-death decisions until you've done it. but i can tell you this -- hillary clinton has been tested, she has seen up close what's involved in making those decisions. she has participated in the meetings in which those decisions have been made, she's seen the consequences of things working well and things not working well, and there has never been any man or woman more
qualified for this office than hillary clinton. ever. [ cheers ] and that's the truth. that's the truth. >> now listen to hillary clinton herself going after the gop's presumptive nominee with both barrels. >> the world hangs on every word our president says and donald trump is simply unqualified and temperamentally unfit to be our president and commander in chief. >> here to discuss this is michael isikoff, jeffrey toobin, and mark mukasey, a former
supervisor prosecutor. hillary clinton interviewed voluntarily and comey says he's not going to recommend charges. take us behind the scenes of a decision like this because you've worked for him. you say he's not afraid to pull the trigger. >> he's not afraid to pull the trigger. if you look at his track record, he prosecuted zacarias, martha stewart, a bunch of the communications scandals of the recall 2000s. the first thing he said to us when he became federal prosecutor was don't ever become a member of the chicken ship club -- >> chickenish we call it. he said bring cases, try cases and don't be scared, which was inspiring. now, with respect to the hillary clinton case, a three and a half hour interview on a saturday in
a case involving tens of thousands of documents, that's a quick interview. i think jim comey's integrity is unquestionable. a three and a half hour interview is rocket fast. i've had cases way less than this where people have been interviewed for hours, days, weeks. >> so what are you saying? >> i think jim probably had a sense that this case was not winnable at trial. i don't really understand why. it's hard to convince 12 people beyond a reasonable doubt that the sky is blue. some people say the sky is gray and it's pink and it's black and it's whatever it is. >> especially if you're talking to a politician but go on. >> this is true.
having the evidence to prosecute is difficult than having the evidence to convict. and in this case there's no question he had the evidence to prosecute, right? the definition of gross negligence is an extreme departure from the standard of care. jim said today that she was extremely careless. >> he never said gross negligence. >> he said extremely careless. the definition is an extreme departure from the standard of care. so jim, i'm assuming, knew something that made this case not convictable at trial. >> he didn't think it was winnable. i'm going to go to jeffrey now. he knew something but it just wasn't three and a half hours or three hours or so because he
interviewed lots of her staffers, some of them took the fifth. he didn't recommend any charges. is there still a chance that justice will recommend charges? because the head of justice has said i'm going to go with what the fbi said. >> basically zero. the fbi is not going to get overruled by the justice department. i mean, it has happened in history that fbi agents have said don't prosecute and then the justice department says, no, we are going to prosecute, but in a case like this given these circumstances, given the credibility, given the stature of jim comey, i just think there is essentially no chance that this case now proceeds at a criminal level. >> michael isikoff, i have a three-word question based on what you've heard from commissioner comey, a three-word question, did hillary lie? >> well, if you listen to director comey's statement, he certainly didn't say that, but he did undermine virtually every
pillar of her public defense on this since the get-go. she had said she turned over all her work-related e-mails. comey said not so. the fbi found self thousaveral work-related e-mail not turned over. she said originally in her original press conference she did not send any classified information via e-mail. comey clearly said not so. they found e-mail chains going up to top secret classified programs that were sent and received on the computer server. she had said that there was -- that she had been claiming as recently as last weekend this was a security review. comey made crystal clear that from the get-go, the fbi was focused on whether she violated
a federal felony statute. this was a criminal investigation. so everything she said publicly, comby undermined her. but that said, when it came to the point where he was discussing why the fbi was not recommending criminal charges, what he talked about was the law and the precedent. he said that the fbi looked at the precedent for cases that the justice department has brought for classified information, and he found no precedent that matched the details in this case. even general petraeus, which is the one that hillary clinton's critics have pointed to the most, involved a conclusion by the fbi that he had lied to them about disclosing classified information -- >> but that was my original question. did she lie? >> right. he found no evidence that hillary clinton lied to the fbi. people can reach other
conclusions about how truthful she was in her public explanations about what happened. >> let me jump in here because this is to me the most important sentence and i want all of you to listen to this. this is from his transcript. he said separately it is important to say something about the marking of classified information. only a very small number of the e-mails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information, but even if information is not marked and this is in quotes, classified, in an e-mail participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it. does that mean she lied? she was saying nothing is classified. and what does that mean? >> i think she was clearly wrong. i mean, as the great michael isikoff pointed out, this is -- the fact that this -- these e-mails contained classified information. that is beyond dispute. >> but it didn't have a stamp on it that said -- >> but it didn't have a stamp on it.
she should have known it was classified. her statement evolved. at first she said i didn't pass along any classified information. then she changed it and said i didn't pass along anything that was marked classified. that i don't think has been refuted by what comey said. maybe michael heard different. i didn't hear comey say there was information marked classified. >> comey said any reasonable person would have known that the content of these e-mails should not have been passed along on a private server. that leads to only one of two conclusions -- hillary clinton is not a reasonable person who understood that, maybe she's not a reasonable person because she thinks she's above the law and she never understood that this can't be put on a private server because she thinks i can put anything on a private server because i'm hillary clinton, or
there was no evidence that she understood that and either way she's a loser. >> michael, i'll give you the first one on the other side of the break. we'll be right back. ♪ i'm free to do what i want and have a good time.♪ the ford freedom sales event is on! and zero for 72 is back! on 2016 ford focus, fusion and escape. plus specially tagged vehicles get an extra $1000 smart bonus. that means freedom from interest... and freedom to choose... with ford, america's best selling brand. ♪ i'm free, baby! now get 0% financing for 72 months. plus, specially tagged vehicles get a $1000 smart bonus. only at the ford freedom sales event. ♪ feel free...
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delivered to your door for less than nine dollars a meal. get your first two meals free at blueapron.com/cook . the fbi director not recommending charges against hillary clinton over her use of private e-mail servers, but calling her extremely careless in handling classified information. back with me, michael isikoff, the author of "uncovering clinton," jeff rey toobin.
do you have another book coming out? >> yes, it call's called -- >> and i think he was concerned if he did not make a statement like this, the justice department would put out a very bland statement saying there had been no -- there's no recommendation from the fbi, no charges should be filed. he wanted to make a statement about just how serious the fbi viewed this. but that said, you have to go back to the analysis that who
pointed to at the end of his statement saying there was no precedent in previous cases that would have formed the basis for bringing criminal charges and it would have been extraordinary to bring criminal charges or to recommend trillicriminal charge against the presumptive democratic nominee. >> do you think there should have been charges? >> no, brother isikoff is right. you don't come up with a novel legal theory for the candidate for president of the united states. >> i think the fact that she exercised extreme carelessness squares exactly with the gross negligence standard and the fact
that there's no precedent for this, this is not like a judge who needs to follow precedent of his appellate courts. if you have the proof, if you have the law and you have the facts, you can bring a case, even though no one's ever done the exact same thing before. >> even with no precedent. >> absolutely. >> what about intent? >> this is not an intent crime according to the gross intelligence standard. >> but it has always been prosecuted as an intent crime. >> and you do not have to always do what your predecessors have done. if the facts are there and the law is there, you can bring a case as a matter of law. >> why didn't he do it? >> i don't think it was political because i think jim's heart and head are in the right place. >> you said he carefully avoided the term gross intelligence. >> he didn't say the term gross intelligence.
>> this is reince priebus and then i'll get your answer. play that, please. >> he described gross intelligence and then recommended no charge. now, if he would have come out and said the opposite of those things, in fact, there was no classified e-mail and the fact that she was telling the truth about all of these things and then said and therefore, you know, there was no intent, there's really not even kind of gross intelligence here and therefore there is no charge. but he didn't do that. so no one can figure this out right now how you define gross intelligence on one hand as a lawyer and then you don't recommend it while there are other folks that have been charged and are being charged for far less conduct without intent. some of these cases have no intent and they've been charged under the same -- for the conduct similar as hillary clinton. it doesn't make any sense. >> he's saying that, i heard the speaker of the house say on fox gross intelligence, though comey
never used the term gross negligence. >> i agree with reince that the case jim made out today in his statement could have been prosecuted as a gross negligence violation. sometimes the hardest decisions for prosecutors are the cases not to bring and only jim knows. he's not a scared guy and he's not a kowtowing guy. he must have some reason why he thinks -- >> what do you mean he must have. he gave the reasons. he said it. >> go ahead jeffrey. >> he said it. and another factor that comes up in white collar cases is the prosecutors look did the person cover up? did they lie about what they did? did they try to destroy documents? and in all of those areas, he said no, there was no effort on her part to cover up what she had done. that she had been forthcoming
about -- with the fbi interview and -- >> well, let's parse that a little bit. hillary clinton clearly has been lying to the public. whether or not hillary clinton told the truth in her three and a half hour interview none of us know but she's clearly been lying to the public. >> the political fallout from this is far from over. this was hardly an exoneration of clinton, of secretary clinton, and it's worth noting that none of this -- none of the evidence was presented to a grand jury, which means it's not covered by grand jury secrecy. so already you are hearing from members of congress and certainly there's going to be foia requests to see the full investigative files on, this to see what the various witnesses said. so that in and of itself will keep this going. beyond that there's issues about some of secretary clinton's top aides, jake sullivan in particular, who is her top
foreign policy adviser who sent and received some of the e-mails in question. comey said there could be in cases such as this security and administrative penalties. jake sullivan has been widely talked about as a future national security adviser for clinton. you know, will there be a cloud over that, over him because of this. and finally, the last thing worth pointing out, jim comey was nominated by president obama in 2013, he has a ten-year term. he is going to be serving through the next -- the full term of the next president of the united states. if that is president clinton, it going to be very interesting to watch the relationship between a president clinton and an fbi director like jim comey, who has so publicly rebuked her. >> the best thing that could happen to hillary clinton is another fiasco investigation like the benghazi investigation where a bunch of incompetent publicity hounds chased
north carolina is a key battleground state in november. both hillary clinton and donald trump campaigning there today. for the first time president obama the campaigner in chief on the stump with hillary clinton. here to discuss, jennifer granholm and andre bower, supporting trump. governor granholm, it's south carolina and i'm getting my southern accent back just sitting on the sent with andre bauer. you may end up with a twang at the end of the segment. >> bring it on.
>> president obama wasted no time taking swipes at trump. >> everybody can tweet but nobody actually know what is it takes to do the job until you sat behind the desk. this is a choice between whether we are going to cling to some imagery past or whether we're going to reach for the future. i know the other guy talks about making the america great again. this is not a reality show, this is reality. and now they picked a nominee whose only plan is to build a higher wall. you don't have the luxury of just saying whatever pops into your head. you've actually got to know what you're talking about. >> so, andre, i'm watching and saying that's the commander in chief. donald trump doesn't have a cavalry of that kind of person with that stature behind him. how does he counter that? >> i don't know that you get a whole lot right now with obama. his number's around 50% and, quite frankly, he hasn't taken
any arrows lately. all the news has been the candidates. so once he starts getting pounded on again, his numbers i think will actually go down. when you look at real clear politics, 67% of the country think we're going in the wrong direction, i'm not sure she gets a whole lot other than getting the troops fired up. i'm not sure the swing voters, it really helps that much with them. >> does it help, governor granholm, that it gets the base fired up? it has been said that hillary clinton didn't have enough enthusiasm behind her. even if you agree or don't agree with what andre bauer said here, does it help to have the commander in chief out campaigning for you? >> absolutely, absolutely. and this commander in chief, there's nobody who can campaign like him, nobody who can get people riled up and excited and enthused like him.
and he's really great at pressing two important points. one is that you've got a candidate on the republican side who continues to be utterly divisive and barack obama talks about how we should all be in this together and united in the country. even the tweet this past weekend with donald trump defending jewish americans. i mean, every single group that he has divided people and created division, that has been very unhealthy for america. barack obama reminds us we're all in this together. and the second thing he did and he did it enthusiastically and he doesn't get a chance to do it very often as president, to say, hey, we were under 10.5% unemployment rate, it's been cut by half. he can recite with great pride and great honesty how far we have come. and that's very helpful. >> lieutenant governor, it's interesting because he did mention all of those things today and he does have -- he has
record approval ratings, he's ready to pass the baton. but you're saying that doesn't matter because to you most of the country doesn't believe that? >> i do agree with governor granholm that he is a dynamic speaker, no question. he's got unbelievable skills when it comes to campaigning, but the record does speak for itself and there a lot of people that are hurting, a lot of people that voted for him before. >> so contrary to what he said today about the unemployment rate, about bringing the country back from the brink of a recession and all of those things, contrary to what -- what is the country saying? do the numbers speak for themselves or? >> depends on who's doing the number. there are a lot of unemployed people that are no longer being counted as unemployed because they're no longer applying for jobs. the number -- we know the numbers can be played with but you look at these battleground states and there's a lot of folks that are concerned am i going to have a job. they look at things is the coal
business still going to be in if hillary clinton gets elected? she's got problems to overcome. both candidates are scarred candidates but at the end of the day, who can actually change washington? i think donald trump has the leg up on that. >> go ahead, quickly, governor. >> just very quickly, this point about jobs is so important. the lieutenant governor is right that people are concerned about their jobs and then they have to look at the plans of these two candidates. what is donald trump's plan? if you look at objective folks who looked at it, like moody's analytics saying with donald trump's plan we will lose 3.5 million, he will add over $11 trillion to the deficit. they call it fantasy. on hillary clinton's side, she has very specific plans that she continues to roll out to make sure that people know she cares about those who are unemployed, but she can also point to this democratic president who came out to campaign for her today. the numbers are the numbers from the bureau of labor statistics, that unemployment rate has been cut in half, 75 straight months
of job creation, six years of job creation, you cannot deny that. >> i have to you have respond to that. >> i would say the only job hillary knows how to create is getting lawyers employed. at the end of the day she's never created any jobs. donald trump has created jobs, he knows how to create jobs. >> in mexico, in china, in india, where he has employed people. what about in the u.s. other than declaring bankruptcy for those casinos? he's talking about outsourcing and trade today but he's the outsourcer in chief. >> you don't become a billionaire by having nothing but losing businesses. >> we could go on and on and on. thank you for having me. it's good to have you here. coming back, hillary clinton and donald trump have hit each other -- given each other plenty of speed bumps on the road to the white house. whatever, i'm not sure what i meant to say there.
but whose judgment is worse and what do voters think? we'll be right back. and zero for 72 is back! on 2016 ford focus, fusion and escape. plus specially tagged vehicles get an extra $1000 smart bonus. that means freedom from interest... and freedom to choose... with ford, america's best selling brand. ♪ i'm free, baby! now get 0% financing for 72 months. plus, specially tagged vehicles get a $1000 smart bonus. only at the ford freedom sales event. ♪ feel free...
north carolina that hillary clinton was laughing at the, quote, rigged system after the fbi filed no charges after its investigation. here to discuss, kellyanne conway. kellyanne, now you're a senior contributor to the trump campaign after all those conversations that we had. i don't understand politics. what happened? >> i support the republican come knee, i always come around and do what i can for the party. and i'm in great company. i'm in the company of chris christie, senator joanie ernst, tom cotton and we don't have enough time -- >> i love you, but we had such heated conversations with trump people and you were like, oh, my gosh, this is why he should never be president.
>> i never said that. i would ask them why they felt the need to apologize for everybody. >> let's talk about that. hillary clinton was interviewed for three hours but all anyone is talking about are the tweets with donald trump and they're talking about the star. there is the star. they think it was the holocaust star and they thought it was anti-semitism and it was changed to the circle. they're saying they all have to apologize. did you apologize for this? >> what the man who tweeted it said he is married to a jewish woman and that of course nobody intended any type of an anti-semitic references and they changed it right away. i do like what you said about how hillary clinton spent her weekend. >> we're going to get to that, we're going to get to that. but this star that was changed to a circle so -- and they said it was a sheriff's star. it's not the sheriff's star.
the sheriff's star has little circles on the end that looks like a sheriff's star, it's very obvious. this looks like the holocaust star. to say it's not the holocaust start is untry. >> whe they said is to call him anti-semitic is too far and unfair. he was one of the first to allow jewish members to his club in florida, his daughter is a converted orthodox -- >> to that point, shouldn't they know better? i just heard a quote from donald trump saying you can't -- >> that's not ignorance and stupidity to tweet that and all of a sudden claim that's not the star? it's the same thing. it's ignorance and it's stupid to tweet that, from a mean -- from an anti-jewish site, from a
hate site. >> i only know what dan said. i do think what donald trump said is relevant in that we're talking about an investigation that was not 140 characters long. it was about 140 weeks long. that's how long she had private servers, multiple devices. jim comey decided not to press charges today. however, he totally rebuked everything she said publicly. i asked to have the private server. he said, no, she didn't, she would have been denied. i had one device. no, she had multiple devices. at least six falsities in what she had said. >> and we've discussed that all night on the show and we're going to continue to discuss it for the next hour. we're going to be on two hours tonight and discuss that but right now i want to talk about this star. earlier today you said you were very sorry if anyone was offended by this tweet, trump nor his campaign has apologized during this campaign season for
anything. remember when you were on the other side and you were saying all of these people have to come on and apologize for something that donald trump says every single day and they should be sick of it. >> i didn't say that. >> well, a lot. and let's be honest. a lot of things come out of donald trump's mouth, the surrogates come on and end up having to apologize or to try to make it better. >> they should disagree with it. i give you a great example. >> why do you have to come on and apologize? >> i didn't come on and apologize for it. you have to ask the campaign and that would campaign dan scovino. he's been the social media director from the beginning, he's done a phenomenal job. this man beat 16 other people to become the republican nominee. >> kellyanne, this is a presidential campaign. >> and now the secretary of state is lying about her e-mails and servers. >> dan from his side of the
story, he said "to suggest i am anti-semite is awful, i always celebrate holidays with my wife -- >> i think that's relevant, don. >> listen, i dated jewish people, i have jewish friends, i would know better than to tweet that star. if he has a jewish wife, shouldn't he know better than that? >> and he changed it. he changed it. >> at very best this is what jim comey said of hillary clinton extremely careless. okay? this was extremely careless. this was not -- look, i'm not going to pretend to understand why trump was doing that, whether he thought about it, whether he just doesn't know, whether it was ignorance, but this is why there are a significant number of republicans who can't just fall in line behind the republican nominee. it's not just this was a bad day for the home team. it was it's not just this tweet or the misogynist tweets or the racist tweets.
this is a but one more bad day in a long line of very, very bad days that represents the character of an individual, the knowledge of an individual and the preparedness of an individual to lead the free world. >> so joanie ernst, dick cheney and the whole crew are wrong? >> we know there's at least another good third of solid republican party leaders and stallwarts like george w. bush and george h.w. bush -- >> and a million consultants very upset that their candidate -- >> at the republican nomination for this candidate. so you can cut me off but the truth is you and i both know there are many, many republicans who will not and cannot get behind a man like this to be the president of the united states. >> listening to the speaker of the house on fox tonight saying, yes, i do support donald trump and i endorsed him but when he
does something or says something silly, i'm going to speak my mind about it and he thought the same thing about this star. go ahead, bakari. >> this is what i was going to say. i was going to piggy back on what margaret was saying and push back on kellyanne for a moment. this morning paul ryan had to go on radio and disavow this tweet for being anti-semitic. he said donald trump has said something racist and now he's talking about how anti-semitic his candidate is. this evening donald trump after hillary clinton, i'm sure she was very, very relieved to get beyond this investigation, but now donald trump is on stage and he is praising saddam hussein. he literally came out of his mouth today and praised saddam hussein, one of the most ruthless dictators of the 20th century, someone who when israel was not even in the gulf war decided to use scud missiles to bomb and kill many israelis.
so paul ryan himself had to disavow that tonight as well. so i agree with margaret. it's not just the morning but sometimes midday and even in the evening, you never know what donald trump's going to say. donald trump is so unprepared to be president of the united states that it's not even laughable, it's scary. >> i need to take a break. you'll get the first word when we come back, kellyanne. we'll be right back. tokyo-style ramen noodles. freshly made in the japanese tradition, each batch is small. special. unique...
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we were talking about hillary clinton and the controversy and the star and the tweet from donald trump. i wish we could roll the cameras during the commercial break. what was your point about coverage? >> i'm saying that my stock and trade is voters. and voters hope that at some point the election will be about ideas and we leave the
cacophony -- >> this is astounding that we're actually having this conversation because we're talking about a conversation about issues and substance when donald trump lacks that. he hasn't put out a white paper but b how he's going to repeal and replace obama care, he hasn't given a speech of how he's going to prove our school. >> if i surveyed americans, hillary clinton's vision for education reform is -- i'm going to get crickets. >> i agree it should be more about substance and this is the major fallacy and problem and fran frankly shame of this campaign there is no respectable
republican mainstream alternative. paul ryan is trying his damnest to do it, he's put out white papers in the last two weeks trying to focus on issues but every day he's apologizing for trump. the republican party will now be branded and associated with the negative rhetoric. the party brand is decimated. >> what was it before? i'm curious. >> it was quite low to be fair. [ talking simultaneously ] >> you supported marco rubio, whoever, there were a lot of people running. >> the person who has a chance this time. >> can we get back to donald trump for one second? >> bakari go. >> donald trump has the foreign
policy depth of a shallow bath tub. today when he was out there praising saddam hussein, we literally have military people right now who are working alongside iraqis, iraqi military, fighting back isis and isil and he's praising the person who was butchering them and their family. that is how -- that is how absurd his foreign policy and his, quote unquote, substance it. that's one example. >> bakari, you're right. on the one hand you're right, you haven't heard a lot of substance from donald trump about his foreign policy. on the other hand, because there is not a serious foreign policy candidate on the right, there is no one to push back on hillary clinton's pretty spotty record. she should answer for her russian reset policy, she should answer for her invasion of libya and answer for the policies of the obama administration. she may be very well qualified but there are judgments and questions that she called when she was there that no one is
calling on her to answer those questions. >> yes, they should answer for a lot of things, but when you're doing things that usurp the headlines, there's no room for it. when you're doing stupid things like the star and that is the shame -- >> i thought jim comey usurped the headlines with no charges will be filed. >> today was a perfect headline for that and instead -- >> donald trump killed it. >> it happens every time. i wish i could think of the number of examples that republicans come on on this show and say, my gosh, we had the perfect headline and then all of a sudden this. that's all i'm saying. >> well, the headline for a year and a half was he could never win. >> that wasn't the headline. not on this program. that's not true. >> jim comey what he said today