tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 11, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
good evening. thanks for joining us. two main threats tonight, remembering the fallen officers in dallas. and protesters back on the streets again in marmg cities across the country, just as they were if dallas raising voices against the killings of african-americans encounters with police. demonstration necessary chicago, sacramento, california as well as atlanta. jo joining us by phone is charlie demaw of our chicago affiliate, wbbm. what's the scene in chicago? charlie, what is the scene like there in chicago? >> reporter: anderson, good evening.
it's about 8:00 local time here. these marchers are going on about their fifth hour marching lieu the streets of chicago. the marchers regrouped, took a little break, came up with a game lan. there were a couple thousand marchers at that point. now the crowd has dwindled down to a couple hundred. we just saw the crowd move from the sidewalk, rushing the street, and i saw a woman get detained, the first person to be put in handcuffs today. i saw the tail end of it. all i saw was the woman push a cop, but didn't see what led up to that. the crowd is much smaller, but much more rambunctious than the earlier hours. >> charlie de mar, thank you. now to atlanta, paulo sandoval is there. paulo, looks like from the vantage point, the overhead shot we're see right now, not as large a protest as it was in chicago earlier. do you have a sense of numbers overall in atlanta?
>> hey, anderson, we've seen hundreds of people, just to bring things into perspective or add some context here, we did hear from atlanta's mayor earlier this morning saying today would be day five of demonstrations and they have seen an estimated 15,000 people over the last five days take to the streets, and only 25 arrests until today, anderson. we've been walking with these demonstrators and speaking to them and today was the first day i witnessed some of the officers essentially go into the crowd and pluck out certain individuals. we've seen at least 12 arrests or so. however, the crowd here continues on the sidewalk because we have heard from authorities here in atlanta over and over again saying people are free to protest and to hold these demonstrations and mars, as long as they stay off public roads, because that is now a public safety issue, so as a result we are now seeing people on the sidewalk here making their way through to the bunk head region, if you're familiar with the atlanta area, basically an upscale shopping, dining area
here in atlanta. and that's one of the reasons why the mayor has increased security. one of the several reasons why we are now on the streets and we're seeing police here on the ground as they continue to make sure these people stay off the sidewalk, but you talk to people here and ask them if they know where they are going and at this point many of them, anderson, will tell you they are following the drum beat, following the familiar cry for justice. anderson? >> paulo sandoval, thanks, president obama, vice president biden, george w. bush, and hundreds of members of local law enforcement will gather tomorrow afternoon at a concert hall in dallas to remember the five fallen officers and help the city heal. as you saw, people are gathered for a dallas strong candlelight vigil. our martin savidge is there for us now. martin, what's been going on? >> reporter: you know, i've been trying to gauge the mood of
people here, watching them for a long time. clearly, sadness, very somber. there's also people coming together. you see a lot of officers in uniform hugging, hugging the public. this is a chance for, again, the community to come together and grieve, but also to share in the pain they are going through, and that's happening right now. there are family members that are here of the officers. there's also a huge representation of the public, and it's a very wide representation of people from all walks of life, and it's only just now getting under way, anderson. >> martin, let's take a look at this, they are showing the images of the five fallen. let's just watch and listen.
martin, how long is this vigil tonight and what do we expect to happen over the course of it? >> reporter: well, there's going to be a number of speakers, and each person that speaks will represent one of the fallen officers. so in some ways you could say it's almost like eulogies that will be delivered, and on top of that we also expect to hear from the chief of police, david brown. he's a man who you would have to say today is running almost on empty when it comes to both the level of energy and his emotions, and he has an incredibly difficult week ahead. the funerals of five officers would tear out the heart of just about any police chief, and yet that's what he has to go through. of course, the whole community has to go through that, but he's the man in charge. it will be very, very hard. >> let's listen in again. >> weren't just outstanding
police officers, they were fathers, sons, and husbands. they were neighbors, coaches, and church members. officer brent thompson was described as super nice and a friend to everyone. he was a person you would ask for help and he would have your back. he was married two weeks ago to d.a.r.t. officer emily and was the father of six children. officer zamarripa was a navy veteran and served three tours in iraq. he was an avid sports fan, he loved the cowboys and the texas rangers and wwe wrestling. he was a proud son and a loving father of two children. officer michael krol was from michigan, who loved and talked a lot about his mom. he enjoyed fishing with his father, never caring if he caught anything, as long as he was spending time with him.
he was described as a loving guy with a big heart, who liked country music, the detroit lions, and the detroit tigers. senior corporal lorne ahrens was a former college football player and was described as a lovable giant, who was always laughing. he was also known for always being there to have your back. lorne was married to d.p.d. detective katrina and had two children. sergeant michael smith was a good person who was always trying to help others. he was nearing retirement, but continued to serve the citizens of dallas like it was his first day on the job. he was married to his loving wife heidi for 17 years and had two children. to our country, i pray we can
pause and take a step back. when everything is negative and full of hate and anger, there can be no solutions. we must listen to each other rather than simply talking at one another. we will not let the cowardly hate-filled acts of one man divide our city and our country. i believe in our police department, and i believe in our country and its citizens. i also believe we can rise and face these challenges together. if we are to hope for a better life for our cities and communities, our nation must unite behind law enforcement. to my fellow officers, i ask that you honor the legacy of our fallen brothers by continuing in their footsteps and protecting and serving the citizens of
dallas with the same honor and integrity exhibited by these five heros. to the families, we want you to know you will always be there for you, you will always be part of the family in blue. your loved ones will never be forgotten, and their sacrifice will long be remembered. i would now like to introduce dallas police chief david brown, who has done an outstanding job in this crisis. [ cheers and applause ] >> thank you.
thank you. thank you. faster than a speeding bullet. more powerful than a locomotive. able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. look, it's a train. it's a plane. no, it's superman. as a young child, i ran home from school to hear that so i could hear the reruns of the television series "superman." i loved super heros. because they are now like what i aspired to be when i grew up. they are like cops. they are like police officers. super heros.
and cops are mission focused. give us a job to do, we'll focus on accomplishing the mission. so what's our mission today? it's helping these families understand how to conquer this tragedy. what do we tell you all? well, being a person of faith, i always refer back to the good book, the bible, and we have an example of how to conquer this tragedy. when the good lord was crucified and rose on the third day alive, he said, oh, death, where is your steam? oh, grave, where is your
victory? families, we love you. we love you with everything we have. we are now your surrogate family members. we're your brothers and your sisters. when you need us, you call. because we'll not only be loving you today, we'll be loving you always, always, till the end of time. we'll be loving you until you are me and i am you. always, always, faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful
than a locomotive. able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. look, it's a train, it's a plane, no, it's patricio zamarripa. look, it's brent thompson. look, it's michael krol. look, it's lorne ahrens. look, it's michael smith. god speed. god bless you. god bless the dallas police department. thank you. >> dallas police chief david brown. just ahead, two men remember one of those officers who chief brown just named.
he was their brother, the first officer in the history of the dallas transit police force to be killed in the line of duty. later, new developments in one of the police shootings that ignited one of the protests, protests still going on tonight. details ahead. kay?" "yeah, i just got charged for my credit monitoring. that's how i know it"s working." "ah. you know you can go on creditkarma.com and check it out there. it's completely free." "really?" "yeah" "oh, that didn't hurt at all." "yeah, completely painless." "credit karma. give yourself some credit."
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two different reactions, the unfinished business for decades, unity vigil in dallas and protesters on the city streets across the country marching against police violence. no shortage of hurt anywhere tonight in dallas, sacramento, atlanta, corsicana, where dallas transit police officer brent thompson is being mourned by old friends and neighbors and, of course, by his family. joining us tonight, his brothers darryl and lowell. darryl and lowell, first of all, i just want to say i'm so sorry for your loss, i'm so sorry for what your family is going through. darryl, what do you want people to know about your brother? >> you know, he was a hero, and
everyone knows that now. the show of support we've had is outstanding, and, i mean, he was just a very loving christian man. he worked hard for his family, and he worked hard to do the best he could to provide for them, and he died, he laid his life down working to protect these people, the community of dallas, and, you know, he's just a great guy. big heart. >> lowell, i heard a friend last night speak at a vigil who talked about how kind brent was when her husband had a stroke, he looked after her, made sure she had everything she needed as she was going through a very tough time. your brother sounded like an incredibly caring guy, not only in the line of duty, but in his personal time. >> he really was, he was a very caring guy, that was shanna. i actually graduated high school with her, and he did, when her husband had the stroke, it really hurt him and he really went out of his way.
he really went out of his way, because that was the way he was to help out, and, you know, he would -- many people have come up and said he was the type of guy to give you the shirt off his back, and that's the kind of guy he was. he really was. >> darryl, he had an incredible career, served as a civilian in iraq training police officers, also served in afghanistan. i understand while he was in iraq he actually called to check in on your newborn daughter who just had surgery. >> yes, sir. we instant messaged a lot when he was overseas, and when my daughter was born, unfortunately she had to have some heart surgeries and he called in the middle while we were waiting to hear news. i was trying to be the tough guy of the family and keep it together, and about halfway through talking to him, he broke me down, i started crying a little bit, but he reassured me. you know, that's the type of guy he was. he was sitting in iraq where
every day someone was trying to kill him, and he was calling and trying to comfort me, you know, sitting safe in houston, texas, because of, you know, the situation my daughter was in. that was him. he always looked out for everybody before himself. he was really unselfish and loving. >> yeah, lowell, his fellow officers talked about how brent was like a brother of their own, saying he was willing to do anything for anyone. did he always want to be a police officer? did he always want to work in law enforcement? >> i believe he did, you know, he went from the marine corps, even in the marine corps he became an m.p. in the marine corps, and he got into law enforcement and fell in love with service. if he wasn't going to be in law enforcement, he would have been in some other kind of service to the community or to our, you know, to our community or to our country, because he was all about service. i think he always wanted to do
law enforcement. coming from the law enforcement background, all the guys that i've dealt with and that knew brent, they loved him. he was a cops cop, as they are saying all over the place now, but he was also the kind of officer that our country would want on the streets dealing with the public, because he never met a stranger and never met someone he really didn't like. that's the way brent was. even with the individuals he was dealing with professionally, he went out of his way to make sure that, you know, he knew that the contact with law enforcement was important contact for folks, so he went out of his way to make that as least painful as everybody possible. that's the way he performed his duties. >> darryl, the risks he took, obviously, in iraq, in afghanistan, he was mentoring iraqi, mentoring afghan police officers. incredibly dangerous position to be in, really out on the front lines, and, i mean, i read also brent just got married a couple weeks ago. i cannot imagine what this is
like for all of you, i mean, for his wife, for everybody. >> you know, it's always hard losing someone, but under the circumstances where it was so sudden and, unfortunately, it was very public, you know, it was on -- they were broadcasting live on television in the dfw area, you know, just wasn't a good situation. so everybody was in shock and everybody still is kind of in shock. the reality is starting to set in, and that's a very tough situation. >> yeah. well, lowell, i know brent also was the father of seven kids, also a grandfather. our thoughts and our prayers are certainly with all of them and all of you tonight. darryl and lowell thompson, thank you so much for talking with us and letting us know a little bit about what brent was like. >> i did want to mention his wife emily wanted to thank everyone for their support and their love, and his kids. they wanted to make sure that everyone knew that they really
appreciated all the support and love that they are getting. he loved his kids more than anything else. he was a great dad, and he really, really loved his kids. and he loved his nieces and nephews. he was a really, really a family man. >> very much so. >> he's a great loss to our country and our state. >> yeah, it certainly sounds like it. again, i appreciate that in your time of grief you're willing to let the world know a little bit about the brother that you lost. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> hope to learn more about the other officers who lost their lives in the days ahead. much more ahead tonight, including the latest on the protests taking place across the country tonight. plus, new details about philando castile, who was fatally shot outside minneapolis. the video that his fiance live streamed help spark the protests that continue tonight. what court records reveal about his previous interactions with police and does it suggest he was racially profiled? more on that ahead.
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half. in dallas, vigil under way for the five officers killed last week, focused on the fatal shootings of two african-american men. philando castile's fiance live streamed the aftermath of his fatal shooting. we have learned that before his fatal traffic stop, he had been pulled over 52 other times since 2002 for offenses such as driving on a suspended license and no proof of insurance. retired nypd detective harry hawg, also michael eric dyson, also contributed writer for the new york times and author of "the black presidency: barack obama and the politics of race in america." if there is this dash cam video, why not release it? i feel we've seen dash cam videos released early on in investigations in other cases. >> this police department isn't releasing too much about this case here. i'm for that, and the reason why i'm for that, if you release something like that video and don't release other information
about the investigation, somehow it will be misinterpreted somewhere and gives talking points for people that are antipolice, so as far as i'm concerned, the best way to go is wait until the investigation is completed concluded, all right, and then release the information. >> michael, do you buy that? >> no, i think he's giving the benefit of the doubt, and i understand that, but most police departments would not be reticent in the face of such overwhelming attention and if they had something, they'd release it. think about michael brown's case when he was seen snatching some cigarillos from a store, they released that in a way that shapes public perception, so even though i certainly hold the dallas police department from what we've seen of them and know of them in high regard, the reality is there may be something more there. >> wasn't that on youtube, though? i think the first time i saw was on youtube. >> it was released by the police, though. >> okay. >> it is interesting, this came out today that mr. castile was pulled over 52 times since 2002. people see this through the lens
of their own personal beliefs. some people see that and say, look, he's got a police record, others see that and say, wait a minute, pulled over 52 times since 2002, and half of those cases were tossed out, that's racial profiling. >> well, does seem even a lot to me, anderson, 52 times in that amount of years. >> meaning that? >> i tell you, i worked in harlem for probably four years and another black neighborhood for about four years, i don't think i ever pulled the same person over, maybe twice. that's it. >> this, what, raises questions about the police or about this mr. castile? >> i don't know how to look at it. definitely looks suspicious. maybe the police knew him as somebody who always drives without a license and they were looking to, you know, get their quota at the end of the month and figured, listen, i see him, let's pull him over because i know his license is suspended, i
don't know, but 52 times sounds a little excessive to me and, you know, i don't know if this was a black neighborhood or always in a white neighborhood he got stopped in. i'm not so sure of that, but it does seem to be a little excessive or a lot excessive to me. >> michael, what do you think? >> absolutely, and i congratulate brother houck for acknowledging that. it does play into a pattern other young people of color, especially black men have been subjected to where their experiences are they are constantly being racially profiled, pulled over for one thing or another, something that might not arouse suspicion in somebody else and it could be in a neighborhood, especially in a suburban neighborhood where black men in late model cars or driving while black is a phenomenon. there's empirical proof to substantiate the claim black people are subjected to this time and time again and seems in this case that the excessive numbers of stops certainly would indicate the presence of racial profiling.
>> i agree. there might be some officers that actually do that. i don't think the majority of police officers racially profile. nobody i work with, and i worked in harlem back in the early '80s when it was really, really bad and i never knew anybody to say let's pull that guy over because he's a black guy. although most of the people driving, but most of the people i gave tickets to were white. >> you don't have to have an intention. that's the ugly beauty of racial profiling. you don't have to say, hey, let's do it. it's an instinct, a hunch, an unconscious reflex in some very noticeable behavior. let's pull this person over more than this person. this person looks more suspicious than that person. all of that accumulates to end in racial profiling. >> michael, in the last hour you raised a point i wanted to pursue with harry here, as well. you were saying when you look at a lot of these instances it's white male police officers with an african-american suspect as opposed to --
>> in police-involved shootings. >> police-involved shootings as opposed to a female police officer, latino police officer, or black police officer. you believe, what, that shows -- >> i'm saying that there are other alternatives than shooting a person. i'm saying why is it that these people, black police officers, latino police officers, and predominantly female officers don't end up involved in most police-involved shootings. that means they know how to de-escalate and use alternative strategies to keep this person in check, and as a result of that there's far less death. >> you're not facing a man with a gun. you're not facing a man with a knife. i disagree with you, you're not facing a man with a knife, with a gun, de-escalation is a great word and great if you can do it, but i can tell you from my perspective and police officers that i know, there's some people you cannot de-escalate. >> i don't doubt that. statistics show that overwhelmingly white men are the
ones involved in police-involved shootings of black men. >> well, because there's so many white police officers. that's basically the problem. >> so many women, so many latinos, so many blacks. >> diverse police department. >> i understand, but i'm saying to you, there are great numbers of women and african-american and latino police people who are involved in conflagrations with black people and poor people and brown people and they don't end up dead. they more often end up dead at the hands of white police people. >> what situations they were in, if we would take a look -- a thousand different situations, the last situations, you haven't done that. >> what i'm saying to you, you're missing the point and distracting us. i'm saying the point is this, if those women and those african-american and latino police people are engaging with these people, why is it that the overwhelming majority of people who end up killing these people are white men and not the other police people?
>> we got to leave it there. interesting report out of harvard today we'll try to do something on tomorrow about other forms of interactions between police and african-americans, probably the most comprehensive strategy we've seen so far. there's not a lot of data in these cases. up next, donald trump returns to the campaign trail for the first time since the dallas shootings. a lot of attention on who's going to be his running mate. he said he's likely to announce this week before the convention. we'll talk about that next.
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welcome back. today in virginia beach, donald trump called himself a law and order candidate. at his first rally since the dallas killings, speculation grew about his choice of a running mate. trump supporters were asked about it today. >> reporter: about 250 people, mostly veterans and family members of veterans. the audience for another republican vice presidential
audition, this one in virginia. a chris christie audition. >> we did it, we fought for it, we stood up and we took our country back. >> reporter: john presto is a navy veteran. who would you like to see donald trump pick as a running mate? >> well, chris christie is one, rudy giuliani is number two. >> reporter: a wide variety of thoughts in this room. cheryl hargrove served in the coast guard. if he asked you, pick my running mate and you have to do it right now, who would you pick? >> i wanted condoleezza rice, but she doesn't want to do it. >> reporter: on the short list, this marine corps vet spoke for quite a few here. >> a little bit of thought and my vote would be going towards gingrich, newt gingrich. >> i kind of like newt. i think he has the knowledge. he is good with the media. >> reporter: chris christie was here today, he's good with media, too, right?
>> he's good with media and chris christie would be an excellent choice. i'd also like to see him as attorney general. >> reporter: when kristie was finished speaking, trump took the stage talking about veterans issues, but has this comment from last week worked against him with this crowd? >> saddam hussein was a bad guy, right? really bad guy, but you know what he did well? he killed terrorists. he did that so good, they didn't read him the rights, they didn't talk, they were terrorists, it's over. >> reporter: ronnie grimstead comes from a military family. because it's saddam hussein, those who died in two wars in the '90s and up to 2003, and for trump to say anything positive about saddam hussein offends people. are you offended by it? >> no, referring to wars we should have never been in to begin with. >> reporter: does it bother you donald trump is saying anything at all complimentary about saddam hussein? >> no, it's not bothering me. what bothers me is some of the
things hillary clinton says, okay, and what she has to say about benghazi. >> reporter: but what about the time donald trump said senator john mccain was not a war hero? >> i like people that weren't captured, okay? i hate to tell you. >> reporter: jeff mcwaters is a former virginia state senator. does that quote bother you? >> yeah, probably did a little bit. >> reporter: do you think he should apologize for it? >> i think we should get on with life, big election, i think the republican party is going to get together, i think all politicians bump each other, sure senator mccain said things he wishes he doesn't say, all politicians do it, i've done it. >> christie was a former u.s. attorney, not a surprise one of the women want to see him as attorney general. did other supporters prefer him as attorney general, as well? >> the answer is yes. this was an invited guest list, so we were able to talk to a large percentage of the 250 people there afterwards, and people like chris christie there
today, but most of the people who talked to us like him better in the role of attorney general than vice president of the united states. somewhat unusual, anderson, chris christie and donald trump weren't on stage at the same time, weren't together, but it's dangerous when it comes to picking a vice presidential candidate, like surprises a lot, saw that in 2008 with sarah palin, saw that in 1988 with dan quayle, and if john mccain and george h.w. bush can surprise us, a guy like donald trump could surprise us, too. >> certainly has really all this entire election so far, surprised a lot of people. gary, thanks. back to our political panel, new york times political correspondent patrick healy. donald trump all along has said in terms of a vice president pick, he wants to go for somebody political, not necessarily military or the economic side as a businessman, he wants to go somebody who can help him out with capitol hill. who do you think it's going to be? >> that plays a lot to
gingrich's strengths. my reporting has found chris christie's star has sort of faded in the v.p. side, mr. trump would like to give him a senior role in the administration, but he's looking less at christie and more at gingrich and pence, and i think the question is, does he go conventional, which would be more like a mike pence, or does he go with someone who is like him, kind of an unconventional choice, someone who's, let's say, temperament and background might be a little rocky with parts of the party, but who would give him -- newt gingrich knows washington. he knows how congress works. he knows he has some of those relationships. he's very good on the debate stage in the fall, which is what they want against hillary clinton's running mate, and the reality is, if you look back at v.p. picks when george w. bush picked dick cheney, there was chemistry there, there was a likability there. barack obama picking joe biden. bill clinton picking al gore.
there was a connection there like what donald trump has with a newt gingrich, for instance. he doesn't know pence as well, and when you have people like john mccain picking sarah palin, john kerry sort of picking john edwards, which is more of a superficial choice, those haven't worked out as well. >> cory, not going to put you on the spot. actually, i will. who do you think it should be? >> what i think is a lot to what patrick eluded to, getting mr. trump's agenda done in washington, that's the most important thing. >> someone who knows capitol hill. >> someone who has the relationships in place, but before you get to washington, obviously, you have to win the election. what you have to look at, can chris christie help donald trump raise money, will chris christie be the person to support donald trump when the attacks come much more so than mike pence would be.
what you've seen is chris christie was an early endorser of donald trump, steadfast supporter of donald trump and when push came to shove, 17 weeks from tomorrow, chris christie would be the person standing next to donald trump making sure that his philosophy, his process, his desire to go directly at hillary clinton would be put forth by chris christie much more so, ink, than mike pence would do. >> really, so you think christie has a better shot than mike pence? >> i think he's someone that's been very loyal to mr. trump, he rewards loyalty, and they've had a long-term relationship. they've been friends for ten or 11 years, much more so than governor pence. >> newt gingrich, as well. >> and newt gingrich, but trump has a personal relationship with chris christie and his wife mary pat that extends long outside the political world, so don't discount chris christie just yet. >> one of the red flags seems to be chris christie is less popular in new jersey than mr. trump is. in terms of where does chris
christie help you, you could say he would help you as attorney general or maybe chief of staff more than v.p. >> also, there were some concerns about trump told the "washington post" he's leaning towards picking towards somebody who helps unite the republican party. >> that's not chris christie, and i'm from new jersey, and you're right, chris christie's popularity there is at a historic low for him. he doesn't really bring much to the ticket, because trump is already an attack dog, so you don't really need another one like that, where the two can go over the top. you need a little balance. at least newt gingrich is an attack dog also, but in a way that's very academic, so for people who like newt gingrich and his style, and the fact he was speaker of the house, that would fit the bill of someone conservatives would find him acceptable, he knows washington and he's, obviously, been lobbying for the job very loyally for a long time for donald trump, and there is chemistry there. out of this group, i've been of the thought process he should bring a general onboard, and when i saw the reports of michael flynn, well, maybe i was right. problematic now. >> in terms of somebody who has
experience debating at a presidential level, both newt gingrich and christie fit that bill as opposed to a mike pence. >> very true. obviously, these debates will be critical and show off the excellence of the democratic ticket of secretary clinton and whoever she picks to be vice president, but to talk about chris christie for one more second, i think if donald trump picks chris christie, it really makes clear that the idea of somebody who says they are one thing and then becomes another thing is front and center for donald trump, because chris christie ran for governor of new jersey as a really moderate republican with a lot of views that a lot of us in the democratic party might have supported. then he came into office and as things got more political, as he started ridiculously thinking about running for president of the united states while bridgegate was hanging over his head, he became much more conservative, so it's just an example like donald trump. >> i think corey's point about
loyalty is an interesting one. >> trump doesn't need conservatives. he needs to cross over. he said he doesn't care about unity. >> we got to leave it there. back to dallas and an aspect that caught so much attention, how a robot arm with a bomb ended the standoff with the sniper. more ahead. from anywhere. even down here in the dark i can still see we're having a great month. and celebrate accordingly. i run on quickbooks.that's how i own it. our customer is a our 21-year-old female. heavily into basketball. wait. data just changed... now she's into disc sports. ah, no she's not. since when? since now. she's into tai chi. she found disc sports too stressful. hold on. let me ask you this... what's she gonna like six months from now? who do we have on aerial karate? steve. steve. steve. and alexis. uh, no. just steve. just steve. just steve. live business, powered by sap. when you run live, you run simple. of the 21st century, the earth needed to find a new way to keep up
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welcome back. a candlelight vigil is under way in dallas for the five police officers killed by a sniper. the decision to blow up the sniper with a robot, some didn't know it was even an option. sara sidner shows us. >> reporter: a robot and a pound of c4. this is what dallas police used in an unprecedented move to save officers' lives. the officers used it, likely the first in america, a row bobot wa bomb to kill a cop-killing sniper. >> we knew from negotiations this was the suspect. because he was asking us how many did he get and telling us how many more he wanted to kill. >> reporter: he had already killed five officers and wounded seven during a 45-minute gun
battle. >> he's in that building! >> reporter: chief brown made the final call after a two-hour negotiation. he told his s.w.a.t. team to come up with a creative plan that would keep officers out of the line of fire and take out the suspect. >> they improvised this whole idea in about 15, 20 minutes. extraordinary. >> reporter: that plan involved this robot, with c4 explosives. >> this is 454 grabs of c4. >> reporter: we asked matt barnett to show youf us how this would have worked. this is a similar model. notice the arm extension. that would have held the c4 explosive in place. police then had to get it close without the suspect knowing it was there. it was positioned behind a brick wall. >> this two by four is going to simulate the arm of a robot.
this c4 will be attached to this arm. >> reporter: we built a brick wall with rebar inside to demonstrate the blast range. to give you some idea how powerful a pound of c4 can be, we're standing more than a football field away from that wall. and when it explodes, those fragments can be deadly to the human body even here. that is outside. inside a building, burnett says the damage to a human body would be exponentially worse. >> a pound of c4 is a lot. three, two, one! >> reporter: the blast didn't kill the person but the fragments. >> that's right. the wall becomes the lethal aspect. >> reporter: it would go right through you. >> absolutely. like butter. >> that was our sara sidner
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that's it for us. thanks for watching. time for cnn tonight with don lemon. this is cnn breaking news. breaking news is new protests and a vigil for fallen officers, that on the eve of president obama's trip to dallas. this is "cnn tonight", i'm don lemon. demonstrators taking to the streets after a week of shocking violence. and mean while, in dallas, a vigil for officers killed in the attack, as the family of micah johnson struggle to