tv Reliable Sources CNN July 24, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT
overall the report points out that 50% of countries have yet to elect a female head of state. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, i will see you next week. good morning from philadelphia, i'm brian stelter, and this is "reliable sources," our weekly look at the story behind the story, how news and pop culture get made. we are live here on the floor of the wells fargo center where the democratic national convention will begin tomorrow. we're going to start on that topic because we have some breaking news of exactly how this convention is going to go forward. as of yesterday, debby wasserman schulz will not be gaveling in and out the proceedsings of the
conditi convention, even though she's a leader of the democratic party. amid fallout from the e-mails revealed in the dnc leaks controversy this week. if you're not familiar with what i'm talking about, let's get an explanation from jeff. let's start with exactly who it's going to be taking her position as the permanent convention chair? >> brian, congresswoman marsha fudge, she's a democrat of ohio, she has been selected by party leaders as the convention chair, she will be the one welcoming the delegates, she will be the one gaveling it in and out, the business section of the convention, she will be a visible role here, she's a strong supporter of the clinton campaign and this is all coming in response to an uproar over the reports of leaks from the democratic national committee from staffers who were favoring the clinton campaign over the
bernie sanders campaign. now this was coming just as the peace accord was really being reached between the clinton campaign and the sanders campaign on the eve of the convention here, but the release of these e-mails, the leaked e-mails clearly questions sanders, his capability for office have blown up that piece of work. statements from the clinton campaign and from the white house are urging debby wasser man schultz to not be seen here at the convention. i have been told by party officials, party sources that she is not inclicned to do this al this point. >> how are things for her on the eve of the convention? >> it certainly is an embarrassment for her, she has with stood a lot of controversy during her time at the dnc, so
she was going to try and get through this convention, but it definitely is a black eye on the party and the convention going into what they were hoping would be a united convention, so that's what they're ftrying to o here, taking care of this before the convention starts tomorrow. this is internal party business, this is not something most voters in america probably are concerned about or even aware of what's happening, but in terms of the, just the idea of a party chairwoman, the leader of the party not being on hand at a historic convention, where the first woman is to be nominated to be president is pretty extraordinary, but they're trying to clean up this internal mess, this family feud if you will before the convention begins tomorrow. >> cnn senior washington correspondent, thank you very much. coming up later this hour and also next hour on state of the union, we will have more on this leak controversy.
obviously this week here at the wells fargo arena. there's something happening outside this hall that could have just as big an impact on what happens this weekend. roger ailes, the founder father of fox news out of a job, this is more than just an executive shake-up, it's the end of anger are. before he resigned on thursday, ailes with arguably the most powerful man in media. he reshaped television and politics, in some ways merging the two, by teaching presidents richard nixon, ronald reagan and george h.w. bush on how to use tv. and then joining to launch fox news. with fox, ailes upended cable news, you might say he ran a permanent campaign, supporting conservative values, an antidote to what he called liberal media bias, he called the channel fair and balanced others called it a
cynical manipulation, but there's no denying fox and ailes changed u.s. media, that's why he's cheered by some, but reviled by some who will be at the convention this week. thursday as ailes along time friend donald trump steps up, ailes steps down. the question is will the two men now team up to defeat hillary clinton? this morning we have special coverage of this historic week in media, including an interview with a reporter who saw this coming, plus one of ailes potential successors and my brand new reporting of what's next for ailes and what's next for fox. some analysis you're not going to hear on fox news today. with former fox news contribute for jane hall, the cnn political commentator and trump supporter jeffrey lloyd. when you take stock of roger ailes legacy and his affect on
media, do you think we would have a gop without roger ails? >> i think roger ailes did do the media what donald trump did to the political process, he found what the economists called a marked inefficiency, and audience was not being served, that had come to believe after 30 years of argument on the part of the right, that the main stream media as a whole was unfair. and it's a mark of his success, not just the enormous profits, that here you have a company owned by a very prominent right wing media tycoon, run by a guy who was a republican operative much of his life and they can call themselves fair and balanced and they have a large audience that says, yes, you are. when i have been reporting, i have often been told i only talk to fox news, at places like tea party rallys, that's what he did, he had an enormous impact. >> what was your personal reaction to this news of ailes
resigning under pressure? did you ever think he would leave in a circumstance like this? >> no, i actually think it's a good day for women in fox news and also for women in television, you know, i hesitated actually to write about my time on fox news because i did not experience this personally. and it's sad to me that all these women who were coming forward, since i wrote my piece, if these allegations are true, there was a culture there and a fear of reprisals that i hope this is significant that fox has moved to have a man who is making a billion dollars a year for them, step down. now how far away he goes, is one question i have. but i do think that he had an enormous impact. i think that you would not have donald trump without roger ailes because he created a bifurcated media environment that put pressure on cnn to have, even during the iraq war, they called
people unpatriotic, they said hillary clinton is a crook, obama is soft on terrorism. there's been an absolute alliance of this network and he is such a brilliant man they have been enormously successful at painting everybody else as unfair and fox as fair and unbalanced. >> ailes has repeatedly and vehemently denied the allegations, even as more women have come forward, both on the record and anonymously. let's explore this point about trump a little bit more with jeffrey lord. talking with chuck todd about the possibility that trump could actually seek guidance and advice from roger ailes. here's the clip. >> roger ailes, is he helping you? is he advising you? >> i don't want to comment, but he's been a friend of mine for a very long time. and i can tell you, some of the women that are complaining i know how much he's helped them and recently, when they write
books and they say wonderful things about him and now all of a sudden they're saying these horrible things about him. it's very sad. because he's a very good person. i have always found him to be a very, very good person. and by the way, a very, very talented person, look what he's done. so i feel badly. but a lot of people feel he's going to run my campaign. my campaign is doing pretty well. >> the realty is ailes and trump speak all the time. they were counseling this week i am told. >> i have no inside information on this, but sure, it's certainly possible. you know as someone who worked for ronald reagan, let me recall that ronald reagan lost his first debate to walter mondale, did very badly, they were very concerned about the second debate. they called in roger ailes who sat the president down and stayed mr. president, forget the details, you are a person of
themes, relate every question to one of your themes. he did that and he won the debate and roger ailes scored again. he's very, very good at campaigns and donald trump could do a lot worse than getting advice from roger ailes. >> when you think about the impact of fox news -- >> it's had an enormous impacts, an absolutely enormous impact for the good. here's the question, brian, george harrison, the late beetle had an album, called "all things must pass" and whether roger ailes was leaving fox because of this sexual harassment business, or whether he just retired in a new years, the thing is with media companies, any company, somebody brings the theme to life and then he passes -- this is now the transition time for
fox news. this is inevitably what happens, roger ailes and rupert murdock will eventually pass from the scene and they'll hand it on to others and we'll see what they do with it. >> can someone pick up the reins from roger ailes or will fox news really be challenged without him? >> fox news is a hybrid, it's not monolithic, you've got real news peoplelike chris wallace, brett baier. you have megaphones to the right like sean hannity, and then you've got fox and friends, the only thing about which i can ca- you've got the rupert murdock
sons, are saying do we want to alienate some of your audience? you've smpbl got when the founding fathers and certainly mother s pass on and only time will tell. >> speaking of someone who's covered fox for decades, and speaking of one of its rival channels cnn, i don't see fox suffering at least in the immediate term as a result of this. let's not loses sight of that allegations, what this means for women in television newsrooms. roger ailes has denied the allegations, is it your take away that fox news, even through the years you worked there, is a toxic workplace for female employees? >> as i said in my piece to the "new york times," i can only speak to what i saw on the air,
and i cringed when i saw women in very short skirts, next to a fully clothed male anchor, and i did not experience that. and i was allowed to say what i thought of fox news on our little media show until i felt that there was a heavy thumb coming down on us and they didn't feel the need for debate. so i can't speak to a work environment. i can only say that these women who are now coming forward said they feared reprisals and women in general have been required -- i mean you can't say this means they were sexually harassed, but women, quote unquote, knowing that they needed to dress a certain way, is demeaning to women, and it has become i think something that people may now look at and go, gee, maybe we shouldn't have that, and the younger murdocks took these charges seriously, i mean this is a lawsuit that's been filed. somebody talked about it, you know, as was this a frat boy atmosphere. again i didn't see it, but i saw
on the air, something that i hope we'll see less of, which is women looking at a situation where they do not have the power that the man who's fully clothed next to them does. it's a symbolic thing, but i think it's important. >> are three js here, thank you all for being here this morning. there are more questions about this story. a list of women claiming they were harassed by roger ailes has been agreeing, but it was. megin kelley's admission that was the last straw. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum-tum-tum-tum-tums smoothies, only from tums. oh. model year endink thclarence event. . looks right to me. shouldn't it be clear- clearly... it is time to get a great deal and a reward card
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welcome back to "reliable sources," live from philadelphia, sultry temperatures today. lots of reporters, thousands of them entering the arena here, and the party started little bit earlier, during the commercial break there, just a few balloons falling from the arena, the wells fargo center, where this convention will officially start tomorrow. journalists of course all over this place already as final preparations are made for the convention. we're talking about roger ailes resignation today, a seismic week in media. if you think back to 15 days before ailes resigned, that's when gretchen carlson sued ailes
for -- he said the company would undertake an internal review, that review from an external law firm found other allegations of harassment, some because they had nondisparagement clauses which for bided them to speak against roger ailes. megyn kelly has said that she was harassed also. they decided he had to be let go. so on thursday, ailes tendered his resignation, under pressure and faces the possibility of being fired. this was a media world earth quake and the aftershocks are still being felt. here to walk us through the effects is media reporter dylan buyers, and gabriel sherman who's is national affairs editor
for -- gabe, let me start with you, you were alone and out front on this story, you reported that ailes was going to be leaving earlier in the week, you said the murdocks had made a decision, frankly other reporters were able to match that. do you believe that you played a part in ailes' departure, were you receiving leaks from the murdocks perhaps trying to force him out of the media outlet he founded? >> what i can say is that this was really something that the murdock family once they realized the scope of this sexual harassment allegations decided that they had to get roger ailes out of the company, the question was not if but when, and i decided the reporting was solid enough to go with the fact that they had made that decision. >> the murdock sons wanted to
remove roger ailes, they grabbed on to these it'ses as a pretext to remove ailes, do you think that's true. >> there probably may be some truth to that but there's possible a cynical reading of it because we can't really dismiss these allegations, they are frankly shocking and we're learning more and more every day, i have reported this morning, that more than 25 fox news women have gone to the law firm paul weis to describe episodes of sexual harassment. and the murdocks, whatever their feels about roguer ailes, when this was going to become public, there was nothing else they could do but get him out of the country. >> you and i were in cleveland, covering fox news all week. do you think the report of megyn
kelly reporting that she was harassed, that ailes' tenure was over? >> i don't think it was a turning point from a legal stand appointment, you look at the sheer numbers of people who have accused roger ailes of harassment or mistreatment. and the murdock brothers were going to have to move to do something. first you had gretchen carlson coming forward making her allegations and you had a slew of fox news talent coming to roger ailes' defense. but you didn't have someone within the network, a powerful talent within the network making these accusations, so as soon as the report came out about megyn kelly, in terms of the public analysis, that played a big role. whether the murdocks used this as sort of a pretext to get rid
of roger ails, i think the -- i certainly know that, james murdock and roger ales aren't best of friends, this guy was running an incredible business for them, this guy was bringing in a billion dollars a year in cash flow, in free profit. the murdocks are fundamentally business people and i don't think they were ready to cause chaos at a network that was bringing in a billion dollars in profit. >> it's a business story, rarely in corporate america do we see 15 days like this. let me bring in our former colleague at the "new york times," they spoke to nearly a dozen women who alleged harassment. is that where this story is now going, that it was not just ailes who would be departing but other executives as well? >> it sounds like a possibility,
names are being put out there who are also in the position of harassing women. but it does go to the issue of whether there was a culture created. one of the things that was said about fox news was that it created a separate universe, that you could -- that universe, in that universe, which was very male oriented, it was -- you know, people were not supposed to be politically correct, that was like a sign of weakness,nd i think there was an awful lot of that inside that culture. i think one thing that's bad about this for women, is if you were a woman working at fox and many did very well there, you have questions over you, that's really reprehensible, before you one of the ones who cooperated, that's an awful thing for a woman to have to deal with. >> that's a very interesting point. we also heard from these fox folks who defended ailes and who have mostly been silent since he resigned. >> the murdocks are looking at the existing leadership at fox
news as possible replacements for ailes. the critical thing, bill shine played an integral role in the cover-up of these sexual harassment claims. >> you're saying this man bill shine covered up what ailes was doing? >> they pushed women into confidential mediation, signing nondisclosure agreements, they signed nondisclosure agreements and as we have seen for the last 19 years, these allegations were not private. i have seen internal documents, i interviewed one of the women on the record as did the "new york times," and if you see this, bill shine, diane brandy, fox news's general counsel, a lot of those people around roger ailes were fully aware of this
culture. they knew exactly what was going on, they did not speak up. >> i spoke with a spokeswoman again this morning who does not have evidence of that. but i did ask the company this morning if this internal review is now being widened and they would not comment on that. and you're saying this is going to spread quite a bit further? >> people i talked to inside the company feel that the only way to change the fox news culture is to move out all the checkives that am moved into position of power. roger ailes deputy played a role in rallying the women to speak out against roger ailes accusers and lead this counter offensive saying don't believe gretchen carlson. if that's the case, the murdocks will have to say these are
managers who enabled and tried to protect roger ailes who presided over this culture. >> look, it's clear that there's a culture there and it's pretty pervasive and that obviously raises some questions for the murdocks about how far this needs to go, how far the internal reviews need to go. again, i want to go back to just thinking about this as a business. it's one thing to get rid of roger ailes, and it's quite a huge and historic thing to get rid of roger ailes. these are the people who keep fox news going on a daily basis. if you're looking to get rid of all the executives, you don't have anybody who knowings how to run this network on a day-to-day basis. if you get rid of that entire level or if there are questions around those people, that's truly catastrophic to the network on how it functions on a
day-to-day basis. >> bill shine s jay wallace, they're going to be here in philadelphia this week. >> i was going say, think of the timing of that, this is right when fox would be out front in pushing the narrative that the republican party wants to push in this election. and if some of their top executives are removed, it's going to put a cloud over that, how are they going to effectively do it? they have done it very effectively in the past. and i think they have been very effective in launching donald trump, so i think it could have a very serious impact on this election. >> you can read all of our coverage on this on cnnmoney.com/media. who will replace ailes? it's one of the biggest parlor games in the media world right now, one of the names being mentioned is going to join me life right after this break.
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welcome back to the city of brotherly love, we're inside the democratic national convention which will be gavelled in one day from today. this is "reliable sources" talking about the shocking news in the media world this week, roger ailes resignation from the channel he founded. he wanted to puncture what he saw as a liberal monopoly on the main stream media. 20 years later, fox is a number one cable news channel. it is having it's highest rated year ever. and other outlets with a conservative bent are also thriving. so we wonder will ailes's ouster leave a crater in the conservative media outlet. the ceo of news max, which has a cable news operation, your name has come up, your name has been
mentioned in media reports as a possible successor for roger ailes. can you tell me, would you want the job? >> well, brian, i think we both know that fox can't afford my rates, only joking on that one. but i'm actually very flattered that my name has been out there, it was a surprise to me. i think that these allegations are very serious, but i don't think it detracts from the fact that rupert murdock saw a tremendous market opportunity, he had the guts to take on the liberal media establishment. he picked a guy that turned out to be the greatest tv mind of our time, roger ailes has built the greatest tv channel of our time. i'm happy to be at max and i'm not looking for another job. >> have you heard from anybody at
20th century fox yet? >> i wouldn't comment on that, right now i'm just doing news max and i'm not commenting on what may be happening, i'm not looking for any position, i am quite happy running news max and as you know, we have a lot to talk about because hillary clinton's running for president and a lot of people are an by that people like yourself and other people in the media establishment aren't really talking about her as much as they're talking about stuff at fox. >> we're going to have four days to talk about clinton coming up here, but let me ask you about two things here, you talk about news max, it's one of several news channels who's fighting to take a bite out of fox audiences, do you think it's this is an opportunity for news max to take advantage of the shake-up at fox? >> we already are huge on the
online space. news max has been around 17 years, we are the third most viewed political news site in the nation, after your network, cnn's website, politico, and then it was news max, it wasn't fox news, we have a history of being very large, we reach about 15 million americans each month online, and i think it's a testament to the fact that we provide fair and interesting news coverage. we had a problem with the liberal media and we still have the same problem, it hasn't changed. >> are you saying that fox has actually not been that successful, not that effective? >> i think fox is a giant, fox has been extremely successful, but your question to me is somehow news max going to benefit from some of the things happening at fox now, and i
answer is, we don't need to benefit, we are already doing extremely well and having a huge impact. >> you talked about ailes being the wisest programmer in television, what was it that he had that nobody else had? what was his insight that nobody else had? >> well, i think there's so many things that the media says they just can't touch, they won't talk about. >> like what? be specific? >> well, let's talk about this scandal at fox. do you think for a minute that if this scandal was taking place at cbs news, that it would be making page one of the "new york times"? do you think you would be spending so much time on your showsome. >> if one of our executives would have been accused of sexually harassing him, i think it would have been -- >> this is taking place in a very heated election, i'm not a fox person, i'm a news max person, but i think i'm looking
at this like most conservatives in this country and we're looking for fairness and we're looking for the balance and we're not getting it. and that's why fox continues, you know, their news brand really hasn't been challenged here. they will continue to be number one, despite any of this stuff. because americans are turning to them because they don't feel they're getting -- paul harvey used to say the other side of the story, we're still waiting for the other size of the story from cnn or the "new york times." >> chris, thank you for being here, great talking to you this morning. paul harvey also used to say stand by for news, so i'll tell you stand by for news here, we have got information on what ailes is going to do next, what he's working on. and gabe sherman rejoins me on what happens to fox news after its founding father departs, stay tuned. ♪
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planet here, philadelphia. all the journalists in this arena, all the tv newsers are buzzing about roger ailes and the future of fox news. and rupert murdock, the patriarch of 20th century fox has stepped in as ceo. but what is ailes going to do? let me show you one of the answers, we'll put it on the screen, ailes's plan to work on his book. he's writing an auto biography, but the truth is, he didn't have a lot of time to do it until now. his friend tell me this is his priority now to get this book done to tell his side of the story. we don't know how much he'll tell about the harassment allegations, which he has long denied. but he has a lot to tell about his 20 years running fox news.
sherman, you have been portrayed by fox as the enemy, as antagonist, what was it like for you to break the news that ailes was on the way out, and see this happen, something that i don't think you saw coming before your reporting that happened this week? >> i covered this story like any other story, it's the greatest story in media and politics that i have got on the opportunity to cover. and so all of the attacks by fox on my reputation, ailes was leading a smear campaign against me, he brought in people to work inside the headquarters of 1211 sixth avenue where fox -- it just tells you that there's more to dig and more to find. >> is it true that until yesterday you hadn't spoken to the head of fox news pr for like four or five years, that she would never return your calls, but now that ailes is out, she's all of a sudden talking?
that's a sign that the culture at fox news is changing? >> i was very surprised to get a call from fox news's spokesperson, who was determined never to return my call, it was corporate policy not to talk to me. it shows me that onroger ailes d not build a tv network, he built a culture. if l. ron hubbard was running an old news studio. >> that's why people say you're against fox, your critics including a lot of staffers at fox, why is sherman out to get us? >> i did more than 600 interviews for my book, i talked to people inside the company, i have seen internal documents, but really just telling the truth about the culture at fox is not out to get them, it's really what it is, and if they don't like to believe that, it's up to them to decide.
>> maybe the issue is fox makes it hard maybe to describe fox, for years you would get a call from a pr person at fox if you dared to describe them as a conservative cable news channel. that's how difficult it was to cover ailes at fox. >> really, brian, i think a lot of time for the american people, both on the left and the right were in denial about who roger ailes is and fox news is, scientology is a cult, but they don't have any political influence, roger ailes had a seat at the white house -- that is just the truth and it's going to take a long time, and it's starting to happen now, the events of the last week, people are really accepting something that was shocking, it's going to take a listening time for the culture to acknowledge that roger ailes was allowed to wage
his own personal agenda on the american political landscape. >> i personally find a lot to admire about fox news, a lot of what they built, but these allegations of harassment are very disturbing, and as i said this morning, there's a lot more to report on this story. we're taking a quick break here in philadelphia, but on the other side of the break, the one, the only, carl bernstein, looking back at the ratings for the rnc, we'll be with you in just a moment. words no one even knows. but everyone knows cheese. cracker barrel has won awards for their delicious cheddar and they put that cheddar in a new macaroni & cheese. can you spell delicious? delicious. d. e. l... don't you dare follow your dreams. think big. or demand your own space. don't you dare leave it all behind.
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ratings were not quite as strong as expected. there was a lot of talk about the trump's ratings bump but it fell short, averaging about 30 million viewers, about the same as mitt romney four years ago. let's talk about what to expect here with carl bernstein for the democrat national convention. he's author of "women in charge." do you think there will be more interest, more viewership at the democrat national convention? >> i think everybody has focused on both conventions. i think the numbers are not as important as this is the era of social media so the focus on this race is enormous. i've said this election is the gettysburg of the cultural wars. it is definitive, the effect will be felt for the next 30, 40
years and that's the context of this and trumpism, this new phenomenon, is -- >> this whole election, even this part of it, is being viewed from the prism of trump. >> absolutely. >> is that a media bias? >> no. because hillary clinton should have won and the democrats should have won this campaign in a walk. but because of her ser received weaknesses and trump's very real appeal, both as an authoritarian, me, big, strong leader, i'll wipe everything out, i'll do all of this, it has great resonance, unfortunately, but, also, he has identified much better than the democrats have, except bernie sanders did some, that real grievances that americans are feeling and hurting and the so-called elites
have ignored so he has defined this debate more than hillary clinton has defined the debate. >> sanders in the news again calling for debbie wasserman schultz to step down. there is talk that some staffers were taking sides. how big of an issue do you think this will be this week? >> i think, first of all, there is only one issue in this election and that's trumpism and it's incumbent on the democrats to stay focused on that and the dangers that come to this country from a demagogue unlike any from being president. to make that happen, given these likes and this real disarray that it is incumbent on hillary clinton and bernie sanders to get together before this convention opens in some way and
say, beilook, we are united wit having hillary clinton become president and defeating donald trump. if they don't do that and let this thing fester and go and make a side show out of this, that we're all looking for in the media, this is more trouble for hillary clinton and hopefully they are going to be smart enough to do this before that gavel comes down. >> very interesting. carl, thank you for previewing it for us. you can read the rest of our media coverage at cnn.com. stay tuned now, a live edition of "state of the union" with more coverage of this leaks controversy right after this break.
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hello. i'm jake tapper in philadelphia at the site of the democratic national convention. embattled democratic chair congresswoman man debbie wasserman schultz, we're told, will not preside daily over the convention here which is set to begin tomorrow and it's an open question as to whether or not we will see her from the stage this week. this comes just days after the release of nearly 20,000 internal dnc e-mails hacked into the dnc system, published by wikileaks. some of the e-mails clearly showed favor to hillary clinton's campaign over bernie sanders, if not outright attempts to sabotage and hurt the sanders campaign. in wasserman schultz