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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  July 31, 2016 7:00am-8:01am PDT

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this is "gps," the global public square, welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. the 77-year-old cleric accused of being the mastermind behind the attempt to overthrow the turkoglu government. fethullah gulen in a very rare
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interview, his first and only one-on-one since the failed coup. and russia, trump and the hack of democratic national committee. did russian agents perpetrate the hack? we'll look at the evidence and what to make of trump's controversial message. >> russia if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> sarcasm as he claims, or conduct unbecoming a potential president. we'll take a look at the long distance like between trump and putin. and the two duelling political parties of the united states agree on very little. but there is one thread in common in their party platforms, they both want to break up the big banks, why? we'll explain. >> the financial sector creates
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only 4% of u.s. jobs, be it takes up 25% of all corporate profits. but first, here's my take. as the two parties' conventions have shown over the past two weeks, the political world has been turned upside down. let me explain what i mean with a personal memory. i came to america in 1982, attracted to the country and deeply interested in its politics. those were days of economic trauma, a deep recession and national security fears. still, i found myself fascinated by ronald reagan and his republican party. reagan seemed to embody the spirit of america, optimistic, freedom loving and big hearted. the democrats were well meaning, but in pointing out america's domestic flaws and foreign policy failures, they seemed to miss the big by, that the united states not the soviet union represented the future. today is the democratic party
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that radiates confidence in america and the republicans who carp about their country. the 1984 conventions were the first that i had a chance to watch. the address that i remember best is the celebrated one from the republican convention in dallas. reagan had appointed as his ambassador to the u.n. a lifelong democrat, jean kirkpatrick, she skewered the democrats with arguments that could be applied today to the republicans, i should note that jennifer ruben as also written on the resonance of that speech. they were unashamed in seeing america as a great nation, but the democrats, she said, have now lost that distinctive faith. when moscow was hostile, the democrats chose not to fight the kremlin, but to blame the united states. listen to her charge. >> but then they always blame
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america first. >> those words became a catch phrase for the campaign. it was an exaggeration as all this kind of rhetoric is, of course, but it captured something real as it does today about donald trump. whether they're talking about the chinese or terrorist attacks or vladimir putin, he doesn't tend to criticize them, instead he concentrates on the americans flaws. kirkpatrick's more serious critique more aptly applies to the republican nominee. she said of the democratic party -- >> they behave less like a dove or a hawk than like an ostrich. like an ostrich, convinced it could shut out the world by hiding its head in the sand. >> and she roundly rejected this
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retreat. >> the united states cannot remain an open, democratic society if we are left alone. a garrison state in a hostile world. >> kirkpatrick noted that reagan derived his success from his confidence in america. that's not the way donald trump see this is country. >> this country is a hell hole, it is going down fast. >> the obamas reminded their party, their country and the world. >> america is already great. >> pundit s point out that america is already on the wrong track, that in these circumstances, optimism won't work. but it's worth keeping in mind, that in the last 45 years, this question that has been asked, there have only been three brief periods when a majority of americans thought the country was on the right track.
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clinton and obama are making a big bet that these sentiments are neither deep nor permanent, they're banking on the hope that americans are not so angry that they're banking decline and division. in the wake of the water, roosevelt always believed that the majority of americans wanted a country that was assertive about its purpose and confident in its future. that was the democratic party he built and that is for the most part the one we saw on stage in philadelphia this week. in 1980, just before i got here, a large majority of americans thought things were headed downhill. four years later, they were convinced it was morning in america. for more go to, and read my "washington post" column this week, let's get started.
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the democratic national convention might have ended on a high note, but it began on a sour one, after the release of e-mails showed party officials had given preferential treatment to hillary clinton over bernie sanders, those er-mails were acquired during a hack. donald trump used the opportunity to invite the russians to dig a little more. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> under fire for those remarks, he later said he said it sar ca sarcastical sarcastically. marsha guessen is a russian-american journalists and
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author. and max boot is a military historian and a senior fellow on the council on foreign relations. david, where does the story go from here? do you think there will be more revelations, do you think there will be more we'll learn from u.s. intelligence agencies? >> i think there's a few things to look for, fareed, first if there are more revelations and we don't know if whoever is holding them is doling them out. there's a bit of forensic evidence that points back to a few russian intelligence agencies, but that doesn't mean that that's who's got the documents today. the question is whether there's any relationship between the people surrounding mr. trump and the russian authorities. i think the third question is, whether or not the u.s. government decides to actually accuse russia of being behind this hack. the u.s. government has been
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very cautious about the hacks, just as they were cautious about the hacks into the white house and the joint chiefs of staff. it's believed that they were conducted by the same actors, so you have an unusual story where we have foreign powers seeking -- we don't quite have the evidence as you frequently don't in cyber to be able to prove that case. >> and you have written that this kind of thing is not so unusual for russia to do to try to influence elections on the eve of the election or during campaigns in europe. >> yes, no, there's a pattern now. it sometimes involves hacks as was done in ukraine, it sometimes involves secret tapes, it sometimes involves political parties, sometimes participation
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either overtly or covertly disinformation campaigns to support one party or another. but russia has been involved in politics in america for the last several years, they are looking for people who are in the case of europe, who are anti-europe, anti-nato, not necessarily pure russian, they're looking for spoilers and they're looking for people who can disrupt and undermine democracy and in particular undermine western democratic multilateral institutions like the eu and nato. >> max, what would be the motive here? would russia and putin really have a strong preference in your view for trump over clinton? >> let's put it clear that the russians do have a strong -- for trump. hillary clinton as secretary
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of -- in the second place, is is fact that trump is the most pro russian american presidential candidate ever. i mean he has nothing but kind words for putin, when he has nothing but nasty words for everybody else. he has said that nato is obsolete, which is a key goal that russian foreign policy seeks to achieve is to destroy nato. trump has said he will would not defend nato allies like the baltic republic, he watered down the republican platform so that it did not call for providing arms to the ukrainians. he has even said that he is open to annexing the russian -- if russia was going to draw up a candidate for the russian presidency, this is who he would come up with. >> marsha, do you think too much is made up of this trump-putin
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love affair, friendship? >> yes and no. i mean i agree with everything that's been said so far, i just think that the important points, when we start talking about trump was in conspiracy and is trump the maturing candidates, i think we go too far. the important things about putin is that putin hates hillary clinton, he will do anything to make sure she's not elected. and that is why the hackers were in the dnc, aside from the fact that they're generally disrupters and they try to disrupt the politics of all western powers, but if trump is elected, he will be elected by americans, he will not be elected because he is the candidate that putin has promoted. >> the whole issue of trump's views on nato and things like that, that was all in an interview david sanger did with donald trump and i will ask him about that when we get back.
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and we are back with david sanger, marsha guessen and max boot. trump's most controversial statements on foreign policy perhaps came in an interview with you, where he essentially said he was not sure he would abide by the automatic guarantee that exists within nato, that is, you know, an attack on one is an attack on all, it is the article 5 commitment. when he told you that, and he said it would depend on whether these guys have paid their fair
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share, when he said that, do you think he understood how controversial he was being, that he was really, you know, taking exception with or violating seven decades of american foreign policy? >> fareed, we had two different interviews, my colleague and i with trump in march. that was when he took the first step here and said if nato allies don't pay their fair share, then he would think about pulling back from nato. he was beyond president obama where people like robert gates have gone in the past, where they have all urged the nato countries to pay for and that the rest of the world would lose some support for nato if the nato countries weren't paying more for their defense. the second we did during the
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cleveland convention, i then asked him to go the next step, and asked him, would you automatically come to the defense of any of the balkan states -- i'm sorry, any of the baltic states that might be invaded by nato by russia? any of the baltic states that might suffer something short of war kind of attack? and his answer was a very transactional one, he said i would look first to see what contributions they made to nato and you saw president obama take a shot at that during his speech at the democratic convention when he said our alliances are not up for sale, we make commitments and we abide by those commitments. i think so mr. trump it's a much more transactional relationship, that is, we provide protection, you pay for it. we look at things like what our trade deficits are, it's not a broad concept about where
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american interests are or trade interests are but how the transactions would work out. >> and a lot of foreign policy experts say it's the unconditional guarantee that the united states provides that has kept the peace in europe, that has deterred a certain kind of expansion. you live in the heart of this, you have spent part of your life in poland. do you think that this has rattled eastern europe? >> yes, very much so, it obviously, particularly the baltics states, since david's interview when he asked particularly about them. nato is not an aggressive organization, it was not created to invade other countries, it was created as a deterrence, as an alliance, as an institute that would prevent invasion, and it does very much rely on a kind of assumption that if something were to happen, america would intervene, it's built almost on a guarantee and almost on a promise. trump, by saying what he said,
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he's now saying it and he said it for the first time in 2000, he said it in his book, he's said it in his conversations, trump undermining that assumption of an american guarantee, has already damaged the alliance, he's already put into question, is the alliance real, is the nuclear umbrella real? >> max, you describe yourself as a lifelong republican, you've always been a tough cold warrior, you've been for an aggressive expansionist american foreign policy that preserves order, preserves the peace, what does this all make you think? >> i'm horrified, fareed, this is not the republican party that i joined in the 1980s when it was reagan saying mr. gorbachev tear down this law.
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now it seems that trump is calling on the russian leader to carry out cyber attacks on his opponent for president of the united states. as you recall, this amazing interview that trump gave last fall to morning joe, where he was actually asked, what about the fact that putin kills his political opponents and journalists, are you troubled by that? and trump's response was, oh, well, we kill people too. it's staggering to me, because this is exactlyhe kind of moral relativism that ronald reagan and other republicans have been decrying for decades, this is the world view of the san francisco democrats, the people that jean kirkpatrick was denouncing in 1984 who blame america first, it turns out that it's actually donald trump who blames america first and he's taken control of the republican party and all these republican politicians like newt gingrich who have called for the expansion of nato over the years
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who have called for opposition of putin. it's a shattering and deeply depressing moment for me that this is happening, i cannot believe that the republican party got sold out everything that it stood for and it's created an opening for the democrats to become the strong on defense party. >> in the russian press, i noted another one of trump's comments is being highlighted in that same press conference where he sort of invited the e-mails to be unearthed. he also said when asked about crimea, would he accept crimea, he said we'll see. where other republicans have said no never. is the russian media playing up the idea of trump as somebody who will end the sanctions on russia, end isolation and be much more pro russian? >> absolutely. and the russian press has been
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generally -- and by russian press, we usually mean russian state press. they have been playing up the idea that putin has influence on the trump campaign when, about a week and a half ago, or two weeks ago when carter paged trump's foreign policy advisor in moscow, it was carter who leaked the information. to ask page whether he would advise trump to lift sanctions on russia. putin very much wants to create the impression that he is playing puppeteer with the american elections and he has trump in his pocket. >> fascinating conversation, thank you all, we will be following this story. when we come back, the democrats and republicans agree on very little except this. they both want to break up the big banks. we'll explain why when we come
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in this wild election season in the united states, there are very few areas of agreement between the two parties. except one. both want to break up the big banks. both platforms call for bringing back in 193 3 bass-seagal act. fdr sign ed bass-seagal to stop the market crash of 1939. in which banks use cash to invest or speculate. that part of glass-stegall
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because -- why do the democrats and democrats agree on this. the author of the great new book "makers and takers" digs deeply into the heart of the issue, she is a cnn contributor to time and a cnn analyst. why is it that both sides have sieged on this idea? is it because people feel like these big banks are dangerous? >> i i have you have seen a lot of populist anger on this issue on both sides of the political spectrum. and if you look at the facts, there is some justification of this, over the last 40 years, finance has tripled in size. financial sectors creates only 4% of u.s. jobs but it takes 25% of all corporate profits so that's a lot of economic oxygen being taken out of the room, and
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there's also a feeling to back it up that finance has gotten so large that it's actually a headwind to economic growth rather than a headwind as it was intended to be. >> one of the things about these big banks is that they're too big to fail, either they fail or bring down the whole economy with them, or the government decides that's too risky and they bail them out. is that a valid concern? >> this is a valid concern, as part of the dodd-frank financial policy that came out. the fed regularly looks at these banks and say could they be wound down until it happens? i think it would be very difficult if we were in a similar situation in 2008 for any politician to say, yeah, let them fail. it's going to be interesting to see what happens. >> hillary clinton says she's not in favor of reinstituting
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glass-stegall. glass-stegall wouldn't have helped at all in terms of 2007, 2008, it was the banks that failed that were not covered by glass-stegall. in other words bare sterns -- >> i think that one of the reasons that bernie sanders didn't get farther with his break up the big banks position. a lot of the banks have migrated out of the big banks into the shadow banking sector. and i don't want to say that bringing back glass-stegall to alleviating the financial crisis. >> back to your book, the distortion that this produces in the economy, this kind of huge large finance and large banks, is that companies themselves
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become more focused on finance and financial engineering, general motors is a great example. explain that. >> i mean, gm, ge, i have looked at a lot of these companies in my book and it's interesting, all of them have become much more interested in the last 40 years in actually moving around money on the balance sheet. ge was a too big to fail bank. it had this very siloed financially oriented system. the ceos of those companies are looking to change that. but all -- get five time as much revenue from financial services as they did in 19 80. >> my exclusive interview with the man who says that fethullah gulen who is a 77-year-old
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just over two weeks ago, all
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eyes were on turkey as that government fought off a coup attempt. it was unclear to observers who was in charge. erdogan was still in command of the nation, since then president erdogan has presided over a severe crackdown. since the coup, more than 15,000 people have been detained. more than 8,000 people have been arrested, including 5,000 in the military, more than 20,000 teachers have been suspended and more than 130 media outlets have been shut down. almost all of them are in trouble because of suspected ties to this man. fethullah gulen, whom president erdogan blames for masterminding the coup. gulen is a muslim cleric is --
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just days after the coup, turkey requested the 77-year-old gulen be extradited to turkey from his self-imposed exile in the united states. i met gulen in his compound in the pocono mountains of rural pennsylvania for this exclusive interview. mr. gulen thank you so much for joining us. >> translator: i do thank you. >> let me ask you about the coup. the prime minister of turkey has now officially said that there is a direct connection between you personally and the people who plotted the coup in turkey. what is your response? >> translator: that international conversation investigates this matter in depth. if there is anyone i told about this verbally, if there is any
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phone conversation, if 1/10 of this accusation is correct, i will band my neck and say, they are telling the truth, let them take me away, let them hang me. but i am talking with certainty, i have neither talked to anyone, nor did i say anything to anyone on the phone. now in the background there could be people who appear to be sympathetic with you in this situation, or expected to say things with the promise of reward. >> translator: i don't know and i won't be able to say anything about them. however, one of the most important proves of a hastily made decision is that people have been fired from their jobs, this clear shows they have been labeled prove -- previously. >> the prime minister and people
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around him have made a very specific charge which is that the coup plotters captured the chief of staff, the army chief of staff and that he was told that he could be put directly in touch with you and you would persuade him to support the coup. is that true? did you have a message out to the army chief of staff or did you offer in some way to talk to the army chief of staff? >> translator: seeking forgiveness from god, if i talked to joint chief of staff, one should ask him, did he talk to you on the phone? did he send you a message via someone? or did he send you written and signed document? i only know him from distance. as far as i know him from a
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distance, he is a man of integrity. i don't think he would say anything contrary to truth. in this respect, one should ask him this matter directly to him with it's entire background and if there is such a scenario, and if somebody were tricked into saying something to him, it should be investigated. >> but who do you think organized this coup? >> translator: according to some, their ultranationalists have planned this and they put some religious appearing people at the front in order to demonize them, with the idea that such a scenario would receive grass root public acceptance, some said so, in fact, the president himself said, this has been a god send for us. from now on, we can do whatever we want, easily, et cetera.
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>> you think erdogan may have secretly planned this coup himself? >> translator: i would consider such a claim as slander. that is even if he were my arch enemy wanting to drink my blood, i would submit myself to god before i make such an accusation, knowing that i am accountable to god. >> but you don't deny that many of the people involved may have been sympathetic to you and your ideas? >> translator: there might have been some sympathetic people among them. i would consider them to be betraying the nation, i would consider them to be disrespectful of my long time ideas. because in every coup d'etat, i have been always been affected.
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i have always been against coups, since i have spent my entire life in coups and pressures, i have decided that nothing good can come from coups, coups can disintegrate and maem enemies out of others. this will also make enemies of nations. so as common sense requires, i have always been against coups, and i curse them. i would curse people who resort to coups against democracy, liberty and republic. this is my position. >> we will be back with more of my exclusive interview with fethullah gulen, i will ask gulen what he would like to say to the man who accuses him of being the master mind of turkey's recent coup attempt. that nation's president, erdogan.
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back now withmore of my interview with the man who turkey accuses of master minding the turkish coup attempt. i spoke with fethullah gulen in the pocono mountains. the government has said that you created a peril of state, that you have these network of schools that brainwash people, that you have people within the bureaucracy who are sympathetic to you, that you have people in the judiciary who are sympathetic to you, that you
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have people in the army who are sympathetic to you, and that this creates a danger to the turkish state. what is your response? >> yes, it is completely natural for people of a nation to be appointed in positions in their own institution, this is to say that they are a part of turkish nation and they see themselves as a part of turkish nation, they see them as ayatollahian people. whether i know them or not is another issue. i cannot know who has been appointed in which position. >> be just to be clear, the claim of the government is that you have all these people who are in the military and the bureaucracy and the judiciary, they are loyal to you and that at your urging, at your
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direction, they are trying to destabilize the turkish government, you say no. >> translator: i don't think it is possible, as i have just mentioned, some people stated a scenario, then someone who's seemingly a fan has led some people into this. it looks more like a hollywood move than a military coup. it seems something like a state scenario. it is understood from what is being seen that they have prepared the ground for what they have already planned. i am cautious to say that, i think, i am not jumping to a conclusion, i am not making a definitive statement. this is what it seems like is happening. >> there is a poll out, an opinion poll in turkey, that says that a majority of people believe that you are behind the coup and the majority of people,
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a very large majority believe you should go back to turkey and be tried. how does that make you feel? >> translator: when the oppositional media is totally silent and not a single one is left, and they are in control of all media organizations and launch the same claims again and again through radio, television, newspapers and magazines, it is a natural result that there is such a public opinion at the moment. >> would you be willing to go back to turkey? >> translator: going back to turkey will complicate the issue even more so and turn it into an impossible problem to solve. they will do whatever it takes, but if they could provide evidence for one-tenth of what they have been claiming and take me back by force, there is not
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much i can say about this. what matters is whether or not they can do this by means of law and i don't think this will happen with the will of god. >> what is your message to president erdogan? >> i only pray that he will not go with the presence of god with all the sins he committed. >> thank you very much. >> translator: not at all, i would like to thank you. they have come all the way. maybe i might have hurt them with my inappropriate words so i apologize. >> that was fethullah gulen, the cleric who turkey wants to extradite from his self-imposed extradition in pennsylvania. turkey intelligence says thgule could flee the united states. i should note that we did offer
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to fly to turkey to get president erdogan's side of the story, his office declined. we will be back.
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crest - healthy, beautiful smiles for life. a country's high gdp does not necessarily translate into its citizens well-being. that's according to a new report from the boston consulting group. and it agrbrings me to my quest of the week. which of the following countries has him proved its citizens well-being the most since 2006? china? germany? south korea? or ethiopia?
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stay tuned for the answer. this week's book is actually a movie, called "eye in the sky" which stars helen mirren. it's the mission involved in a single drone strike. somehow the director is able to make that utterly gripping and make all the political and moral issues that surround this new and highly controversial form of warfare. it is an entertaining movie but will make you think about something very important. the answer to the gps challenge question is d, ethiopia, it is the country that has done the most to improve their citizens well-being. ethiopia has him proved's governance, and economic situation since 2014. life expect tancy has increased from 57 to 74 years.
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overall citizens of european countries have the current highest levels of well-being, while the united states ranks 19th in part due to high income inequality. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, i will see you next week. hey, good morning, i'm brian stelter, and it's time for "reliable sources," this is our week of looking at the stories behind the stories. at this hour, wikileaks strikes again. some of them suggesting the committee was supporting clinton secretly hurting bernie sanders, i'll talk with wikileaks founder julian assange about the timing of this release. this weekend a new accuser is coming forward raising bigger questions about the corporate culture that