tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN August 1, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
good evening. welcome to night four of what some are calling the worst days of trump's campaign. he certainly doesn't see it that way. however, his remarks on friday have drawn bipartisan condemnation. his subsequent statements seem to have only stoked the flames. moments ago he weighed in on bernie sanders' decision to support hillary clinton who he likened perhaps figuratively to
lucifer. >> if he had not done anything, go home, go to sleep, relax, he would have been a hero, but he made a deal with the devil. she's the devil. he made a deal with the devil. really. >> the backdrop to all this, new cnn/orc polling shows in a four-way race, hillary clinton leading 45% to 37% with libertarian candidate gary johnson at 9% and green party hopeful jill stein at 5%. this polling does not reflect the fallout from his latest remarks. however, it's hard to imagine them helping in the days ahead. more from jim acosta. >> reporter: 99 days until the election and it's khizr khan, not donald trump, who is all over the air waves. >> he should listen to america, what america and the world is telling about the remarks, about the lack of empathy. >> reporter: the father of fallen muslim american soldier killed in iraq, khan electrified the democratic convention, accusing trump of islamophobia
and hasn't let up since, demanding the republican party reject its nominee. >> enough is enough. every decent republican has rebuked his behavior, yet nobody has stood up and said enough, stop it, you will not be our candidate. >> reporter: trump, who is not one to let an attack go unanswered, is causing major heartburn inside the gop, tweeting back mr. khan who does not know me viciously attacked me from the stage at the dnc and is now all over tv doing the same. nice. but trump is also hearing back from khan's wife after his comments over the weekend. >> his wife, if you look at his wife, she was standing there, she had nothing to say. she probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. >> reporter: her silence at the convention, she told cnn, was due to her grief, not her faith. >> i can say that my religion or my family or my culture never stopped me saying whatever i want to say. without saying a word, i had
lots of love. i touched lots of heart. >> reporter: democrats are seizing on the controversy from the president -- >> no one has given more for our freedom and our security than our gold star families. >> reporter: -- to hillary clinton. >> mr. khan paid the ultimate sacrifice with his family, didn't he. and what has he heard from donald trump? nothing but insults. >> reporter: top republicans from leaders in congress to trump critics john kasich and lindsey graham are also stepping forward to defend the khan family. senator john mccain, a former p.o.w. who felt trump's fury before, released a scathing statement saying i cannot emphasize enough how deeply i disagree with mr. trump's statement. i hope americans understand that the remarks do not represent the views of our republican party, its officers or candidates. the latest uproar for the trump campaign has thrust gop vice presidential candidate mike pence into a unique role as a running mate, from attack dog
into rescue dog. the campaign released a statement from the indiana governor saying donald trump and i believe that captain khan is an american hero and his family, like old gold star families, should be cherished by every american. >> any mention of the khans at trump's rally tonight? >> reporter: no, no mention tonight. no mention earlier today at a rally in ohio. the only thing we have heard from donald trump on this controversy with the khans came earlier today during a local news interview. during that interview, donald trump said he considers captain khan to be a hero, but that he believes he was viciously attacked by khizr khan and he feels he responded appropriately. we should also mention donald trump just a few moments ago at this rally here in mechanicsburg, pennsylvania referred to hillary clinton as the devil. perhaps this is a situation where today's controversy might replace yesterday's controversy. that has been a pattern we have seen throughout the course of this campaign. another interesting development tonight is that he tweeted his support or his thanks, i should
say, for the person who is challenging paul ryan in a primary up in his district in wisconsin. that felt very much like a shot across the bow at paul ryan, who did not criticize donald trump but did offer his support to the khan family earlier today. >> jim, thanks. joining us, retired rear admiral charles kubic, national security adviser to donald trump. also retired army combat medic, mohammad shakr from the tampa bay republican liberty caucus. admiral, thank you for being with us. we heard from john mccain saying what donald trump initially said to george stephanopoulos doesn't represent his views or the views of the republican party. does it represent your views? >> well, i think that from my perspective, i have said even previously here today that mr. trump did express condolences to mr. and mrs. khan. >> that was in a subsequent statement.
>> i'm sorry? >> that was in a subsequent written statement. that's not his initial reaction. >> well, he was, he recognized that they were overcome by emotion and he praised their son as a true american hero, and ever since then, his words have been parsed to the point earlier on your show, i saw a panelist who basically created a hypothetical narrative and then proceeded to just criticize it profusely as being totally inappropriate. i think we have seen this going circle after circle and it's time to start talking about issues of more substances, including how hillary clinton has treated the parents of ty woods and sean smith. in fact, we know from the dowdy report she obstructed the order -- >> you are trying to change the subject. >> i am trying to get to the deeper subject here, actually.
>> you talked about creating a false narrative but you are creating a false narrative in that what donald trump initially said bears no resemblance to his later statement. i'm just asking his initial statement, do you have any problem with it? >> you asked, actually, you asked my opinion of what he said and how i reacted to it. that's what i heard and that's how i reacted. >> his initial statement, did you have any problem with what he initially said? >> well, i guess there have been so many statements, i'm not sure which one you're considering to be the initial statement. >> okay. his interview with george stephanopoulos in which he sort of raised questions about why the mother was not speaking in which he didn't express any real empathy other than saying the dad seemed like a nice guy. that statement. >> he also said he understood his emotions and he then offered that the mother didn't speak, he didn't ascribe any motive to it. it was the media who actually then insinuated that he was saying she couldn't speak because she was a muslim woman.
i don't think you can really draw that from his initial statement. >> mr. shakr, what do you make of donald trump's initial statement? >> thank you for having me on, anderson. yeah, his initial statement was definitely extremely reactionary. this whole he meant to talk about radical islam and all of this other stuff is just grasping at straws. if he wanted to focus on something other than the statement that they made, maybe he could have focused on hillary clinton's policies if he wanted to, but saying this was all about radical islam is definitely grasping at straws and that's not what his initial statement meant. >> admiral, do you think a leader should admit mistakes or admit if a leader misspoke, admit that, or is that something you think a leader shouldn't do? >> well, i think each leader handles things their own way,
and that yes, it's important as a leader to have an understanding of yourself and to be able to basically appraise yourself and to be able to be honest with yourself when you have made a mistake. but i think in this particular case, what donald trump saw were two different parts of the speech. the first part, he saw one where he had empathy with the khans as they were talking about their grief and their son, and then mr. khan then kind of switched and became a very sharp partisan, attacking donald trump, so he sees that and reacted to it differently. so as a leader in one sense he would have empathy for them but also, he felt like when his patriotism was attacked he had to defend himself. >> he didn't really say any of that in the initial statement. >> well, you are asking for my analysis of how he reacts and how a leader reacts. that's basically what i observed.
again, it's -- it really is, i think, gone on to the point where we're just going in circles upon circles and there are other more important issues to look at, including the candidates before us, who is the one who will look to keep america safe and who has created a pattern of chaos, death and destruction throughout the middle east. who has basically drawn us into wars where soldiers, soldiers have had to fight oftentimes under limited rules of engagement that have constrained them versus donald trump who says war will be our last resort but if we fight, we fight to win. >> donald trump did initially support the gulf war. he was on howard stern and when asked about it, he said i guess so. he was supporting it. only later on, he said i didn't which as you know, as a leader, you can't really change your opinion midstride. >> i guess you have to look and see the context he was talking
and who he was at the time and what. but again we know for a fact the secretary or senator clinton voted for the iraq war but that wasn't the big problem, anderson. as you know, because you have been over there, when we had combat rules of engagement, i was there, leading my sea-bee division, we were attached to the marines, we moved into baghdad with combat rules. eventually the rules of engagement changed and that put captain khan in the unenviable position when that vehicle approached his position, he didn't have a 50 caliber machine gun -- >> sir -- >> he had to go out there because of the decisions politicians have made. >> do you think it's really appropriate, you weren't there, you don't know the exact scenario of what happened as that vehicle approached. i'm not sure it's appropriate to kind of rehash this in a political standpoint. mr. shaker, when you -- >> i have done some research on it within the last couple days just to see what happened. that's what's been reported. >> mr. shaker, when you heard
donald trump talk about mrs. khan and that she was silent, that she remained silent, what did you hear? because the admiral is saying there was no religious subtext to it. what did you hear? >> i mean, all you have to do is to look at anything mr. trump has ever said about muslims san you can deduce from that that there's probably some sort of islamic undertones when it comes to that. not only that, look at how he treated megyn kelly or other women or disabled people out on the campaign trail. the issue with donald trump is that, you know, he says whatever he wants and he could make a mistake here and there and then he goes back to his campaign and they put out a statement saying exactly what he probably meant to say. to me that's not exactly leadership. you should know what you're
trying to say without having to backtrack every single time or change your opinion every single time. the admiral mentioned that, you know, donald trump's going to make america safe again, he talked about the failed policies and interventions overseas. well, if you look at the 2011 video, it's a selfie that donald trump took, he supported the intervention in libya so you can't just say that one time you're for a certain cause and one time you're against it. that's just impossible. either you're for it or against it. but with donald trump, it seems like it's however the wind blows. >> we have to leave it there. good discussion to have. we'll have more. i appreciate your time. >> i appreciate being on, anderson. thank you very much. breaking news, a new cnn poll showing hillary clinton's big bounce after the democratic convention. next, we go beyond the national polling numbers to look at where the campaign stands state by state. and we look closer at donald
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which saves money. esurance was born online and built to save. and when they save, you save. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. we mentioned the new cnn/orc polling numbers at the top of the hour which show a convention bounce for hillary clinton and erosion of donald trump's favorability numbers. however, and you will hear this a lot, it's a national poll and elections are fought and won state by state as we all know. john king joins us with the magic wall. secretary clinton, what is her path to 270 electoral votes look like? >> no question, the democrat, secretary clinton, has an advantage. we give her 236 electoral votes to 191 for donald trump. look at the map. if it's dark red, it's solid republican. if it's lighter red it leans republican. deep blue, solid democrat. lighter blue, leans democrat. how does hillary clinton get from 236 to 270? number one, she picked tim
kaine. she says as a governing partner. she also picked him because virginia has 13 electoral votes. a swing state. you get those 13, if they can win florida, that's all. donald trump could win the rest of the toss-up states, two states, win virginia, win florida, keep the rest of these blues, she's the next president of the united states. >> so if she can't win florida, what happens? >> then it gets more complicated. both campaigns want those 29, right? say donald trump wins florida. if clinton still holds virginia, tim kaine's state, she's at 249. she gets there with pennsylvania, hasn't gone republican since 1988. donald trump wants it. if clinton can defend pennsylvania, with virginia and pennsylvania, she's knocking at the door with 269. this is why clinton has the easier path to 270. no path is easy. if she can win virginia and win pennsylvania, two states president obama won twice, she needs just one more. she could get it in nevada with latino votes. even if donald trump won that, she could get it here in iowa, a state they won several times. this is why you have to say advantage clinton. she has more menu options. >> let's not be a debbie downer
for the trump campaign. how does trump see his path to 270? >> he can get there. he's at 191. but hold north carolina. mitt romney won it in 2012 after obama carried it in '08. donald trump has to hold north carolina. no republican gets to the white house in the modern age without ohio and the trump campaign could get ohio. win your second state of florida, 29, big prize down there. then he's at 253. if he can pull off his rust belt strategy, he already has ohio, all he needs is 20 in pennsylvania, 273. so hold north carolina, flip three from 2012. pennsylvania, ohio and florida. not an easy list but doable. >> what happens if he cannot win florida? >> this is again, that's the question. we asked both campaigns, if donald trump can't win florida, just give it to secretary clinton here, in this scenario, if i leave him with ohio and pennsylvania, it's 265 to 244. then we are in a fight. what does he have to do? you could argue nevada and iowa. tough nevada because the latino vote. this is where the rust belt
strategy comes into play. if you are winning pennsylvania maybe you have a chance to win michigan. if you are winning michigan, if you win pennsylvania, ohio and michigan, if you get to ten in wisconsin, you are at 270. is that easy? absolutely not. blue, blue, blue traditionally. ohio has been the one that goes back and forth. easy, no. doable, yes. >> john king, thanks very much. back with the panel. joining us, kayleigh. let's look at the map. where do you see the best path for donald trump? >> ohio is obviously ground zero for the trump campaign. pennsylvania is ground zero for the trump campaign. >> must win. >> must win. must win. florida's a must win without even question on there. then look at a state like new hampshire. there's only four electoral votes but they could make a major difference. there could be a scenario. don't forget george w. bush carried new hampshire the first time, lost it the second time. that's a swing state, a state that has historically done, if you look at thea primary cycle,
mr. trump did well up there. that could come into play. look at michigan, nevada, where he has high name recognition, has a big building there, people know him there. the path clearly for the trump campaign includes florida, includes ohio and includes pennsylvania. after that, you have to look at the big prizes. michigan, wisconsin, new hampshire -- >> i see you shaking your head. >> we have to give you a shout-out for new hampshire. never let it be said i didn't say something nice for cory on television. i think nevada is just a pipe dream. it's ridiculous. the way you win nevada is with latino votes and with the unions that represent the casino workers and hotel workers. those are unions that are with hillary, going to be with hillary, have been with hillary historically and unions that work like dogs for her candidacy and the latino vote is huge in nevada. he's attacked latinos. >> i want to bring john king in on that.
is christine right in saying nevada is not close? >> coming out of the republican convention, nevada was tied. this has been one of the dilemmas inside the clinton campaign, one of the big questions. we'll see what happens. we need to see state by state polling after the democratic convention. she's absolutely right about the determination of the unions out there but nevada was tied. colorado has not budged. a state that has more of a history of being a swing state has not budged. it's been leaning clinton's way. the reason we have the toss-up is because it hasn't moved. let's see what happens after the democratic convention. let's say wisconsin's out of reach. say wisconsin's out of reach. donald trump, can he sweep the rust belt? he will try. if he can't, this is where nevada becomes so important because if you can get the four in new hampshire, that's great but you got to pick up the other six. if you are going to say the democrats will win tim kaine's state, you are fighting it out for either iowa or nevada. today, donald trump has a better chance in iowa than nevada. but got 99 days to go. >> just because hillary clinton may have union leaders, it doesn't necessarily guarantee her the rank and file. >> no.
it doesn't. mr. trump has real support and clear real support among, certainly among white males and the unions themselves sort of acknowledged, some of them, just because we are endorsing secretary clinton doesn't mean all our people will follow. the bigger issue is that secretary clinton has built a real winning presidential campaign organization where they are going to be able to fight a 15-front war and the trump campaign is still smaller, they say sort of nimble, they will have the money but their best hope is really focusing on that ohio, pennsylvania, florida axis. the question is, how does he begin to grow his base of voters. you had a convention that was really, you know, a real conservative convention. >> one of the things newt gingrich advised donald trump to do, stick to three or four issues that are winning issues. in the rust belt, i think he is competitive in pennsylvania and michigan. i think he can defy odds there because his message is so powerful. these are communities where they watched factories close. if he can stay on message and on
the issues and say hillary clinton wanted to shut down coal effectively and you have seen factories close and i'm bringing those jobs back, that's how you -- >> do you worry like for instance just the last couple days has he stayed on message? >> no. that was a big opportunity coming out of the dnc e-mail leaks where they essentially exploited bernie sanders' religion. that could have been a wedge issue but he got sidetracked. i think he needs to listen to gingrich, who said stick to the three or four issues. >> the demographic that could grow really is the college educated white vote. that's possible in ohio and pennsylvania, if he's able to stay on message. the question is florida. are there enough of those voters -- >> especially, that's exactly it. here's the problem with trump's strategy. hispanic registration in florida is skyrocketing in response to his anti-immigration message. that's why tim kaine's choice as vp is brilliant. he's fluent in spanish. i think he will take florida in part -- >> although the last polling on florida, before the
convention -- >> that was before the convention. virginia, my home state, and tim kaine's leadership, virginia has been going blue for a decade. i think that's where the white house is taken. >> there's an aspect of this we are not discussing. that is donald trump's inability to have conservative support which is putting states like utah and georgia in play. right now cbs news put out a poll that showed 65% of conservatives support donald trump, where you had bush and romney up in the 80s. that part of it also changes the calculus a lot. 51% coming out of the gallup poll showed 51% of people after the convention showed they were less likely to support their nominee. you can't take for granted the fact donald trump can't even consolidate the republicans in states that used to be solid red that may not this time. >> much more to talk about ahead with our panel. including donald trump's attempts to put out the brush fire over his remarks about russia and ukraine. men.
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george stephanopoulos when asked about russia's vladimir putin. >> he's not going into ukraine, okay? just so you understand he's not going into ukraine. you can mark it down, you can put it down. >> he's already there, isn't he? >> he's there in a scertain way but i'm not there. >> russia annexed crimea in 2014. trump's critics jumped on that saying it was a gaffe that revealed his foreign policy ignorance. trump spent today explaining. here's what he said in ohio. >> so when i said believe me, russia's not going into ukraine, all right, they're not going into ukraine, the person said but they're already in ukraine. i said yeah, well that was two years ago. that's, i mean, you want to go back? you want to have world war iii to get it back? that was during obama's watch. >> all this unfolding at a key juncture in the election. both nominees will soon start receiving intelligence briefings.
barbara starr joins us with details. so these intelligence briefings, do we know when the candidates will be getting them? >> reporter: the intelligence community is prepared to begin the briefings at any time, make the offer to both the presidential and vice presidential candidates and set up a location, secure location where they can meet with them and offer these briefings. these have been going on for years every election cycle but this year, like everything else, a lot of drama involved. the republicans don't think hillary clinton should get a briefing. the democrats don't think donald trump should get a briefing. but the intelligence community indeed is making an offer to all four candidates to give them an intelligence briefing about threats, challenges that the u.s. is facing around the world. >> the contents of the briefing are classified. are they like the president's daily brief? do we have a general sense of what's included in them? >> reporter: they do not go that
far, is every indication we are getting. they are classified but they basically will talk about things like what's the latest with russia, with isis, with cyberwar, that kind of thing. what they will not deal with is the information that only a president or president-elect gets. that is covert action, who and where agents and operatives may be, the high tech means and methods by which the u.s. collects intelligence, all of that, the most highly classified information, will wait until the country indeed has a president-elect. >> barbara starr, thanks. lots to discuss with the panel. cory, want to ask you. sam clovis, the trump campaign co-chairman was on msnbc today and offered an explanation for what happened in that interview, saying trump was thinking about something else and answered the question when he was thinking about something else. is there a problem in the
campaign just in terms of coordination of what is going on? we saw this in the convention where paul manafort came out one day and said something that two hours later, is totally contradicted by a statement donald trump makes, then acknowledgment the campaign actually makes. have they done a good enough job of actually kind of knowing what -- left hand knowing what the right hand is doing? >> what you find is something very unique. donald trump sets the messaging points for the campaign on a daily, hourly, minutely basis. sometimes you find individuals are not involved in those discussions because maybe sam was in iowa and wasn't aware of the thinking of the campaign. so what you have is you have a campaign unlike the clinton campaign where the surrogates do all the talking, clinton refuses to have a press conference, trump will do press conference after press conference, does it all the time, answers questions and is setting the agenda for the campaign from the very top. that continues to happen. so the staff, let me be clear, the staff does not speak for mr. trump.
the staff does not -- >> i think what you are about to say is that donald trump just says stuff, clearly at some points what's just come into his head and it seems like everyone else is holding the bag or running around trying to follow up on it. >> look, i have worked on campaigns. you cannot be the candidate, the communications director, the finance director, the volunteer coordinator, you can't be all of those things. you need to be the candidate. you build out a campaign and have people that do their job and delegate for a reason. this is something, basic simple messaging. if he had a professional communications apparatus, you wouldn't have all of these mixed messages. this happens all the time. so the whole thing about well, donald trump controls everything, that's great but he's not going to be able to do that if he becomes president of the united states. a campaign is a microcosm of how someone would govern. >> donald trump is the person that's most accessible to the media. >> without a doubt. again, i have always said it's one of the things i like about
interviewing donald trump, he says what comes into his head. you can ask him a hypothetical -- >> ask him any question you want. people say he won't answer tough questions. he answers every question. >> one at a time. one at a time. >> in modern politics, elections are won by candidates who tend to stay on message, have a narrative that they drive every day. after the democratic convention, sources within the clinton campaign told me the one thing they were worried about was that she didn't give enough to the undecided voters who felt the country was on the wrong track. they were worried that she would be seen as essentially too much of an obama third term, that there wasn't enough about how to fight isis. they were concerned that the trump campaign would take advantage of this and find ways to get in. instead you have us at day four of talking about the khan family, talking about ukraine and russia, trying to clear that up. i can tell you the clinton campaign loves this. >> to your point earlier, hillary clinton gave an answer
to chris wallace which was just factually incorrect and "the washington post" gave it four pinocchios. that's an opportunity for donald trump. yet it seems to have been squandered. >> it was, and it's an important issue. you focused on it earlier. this is where you have to stick to the issues. i disagree that him not having a conventional campaign is a bad thing because we were told he was going to lose the primary because he didn't spend $100 million. he didn't do conventional advertising or have the ground game and he overcame all of those odds. i don't think it's necessarily bad. i think the messaging is good but the candidate needs to stay on message. >> one at a time. >> people are finding the last 72 hours, this campaign is fundamentally going to be about who has the right temperament, the right character and the right judgment. we can have -- >> certainly what the democrats want this campaign to be about. >> it is what the campaign should be about. we can have an honest disagreement about policy but you have a guy who lashes out, who demeans people, plays fast and loose with the facts about whether russia is in ukraine,
whether or not it's not, and ultimately it suggests that he is not fit. by the way, two to one, people don't think -- >> wait. >> the fbi director basically said there isn't enough evidence. >> to this point, why is donald trump going after the fire marshals in these towns accusing them of political bias? you now have firefighters putting out statements in support of the fire marshal. >> you know why? because this campaign is minute by minute real time in donald trump's head coming out his mouth. what comes out, attacking hard-working fire marshals, attacking gold star families, attacking an american judge and his judicial ethics because he's mexican. that's what he thinks. that's what comes out. >> one of the joys of interviewing mr. trump is there's no self-editing function. he says what he thinks. [ speaking simultaneously ]
>> but he's not running for that. he's running for president. >> the difference is every other campaign, you hit it on the head, has run a traditional model from ted cruz to scott walker to jeb bush. they had three delegates, $150 million. look, hillary clinton refuses to hold a press conference. it's been 250 days. she refuses to answer questions from the press. know what trump did today? called an emergency press conference, talked about the fire marshals and took questions. hillary, take a question from the media. when she does take a question from chris wallace -- >> he made a fool of himself. what is he doing going out and trashing fire marshals and hard-working men and women who actually rescued him, he got stuck in an elevator at an event and he said oh, democratic fire marshal. >> we have to go. >> every minute donald trump is wasting on his ego is not attacking hillary clinton. what he should be doing -- >> should hillary clinton have more press conferences, yes. should donald trump stop attacking muslims and mexicans
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federal investigators say the hot air balloon that crashed in texas on saturday morning likely hit power lines when it went down. the working hypothesis from the ntsb is the moment of contact the gondola was ripped from the balloon portion, the basket plunged to the ground, killing 16. some of the victims have been identified including these two couples from texas. joe and tressa owens who adored their kids and grandchildren. newly weds matt and sunday rowan, both 34. tonight, gary tuchman takes us in a hot air balloon to show us how a landing is supposed to happen. >> reporter: it's hardly a new thrill. hot air balloons have been around for 233 years. but how these balloons actually fly is not widely known. >> we're off! >> reporter: here in maryland, 36-year veteran balloon pilot mike is showing us how it's done. i don't feel any wind. >> we are a few hundred feet in the air. >> you don't feel any wind because the balloon will always
go the same speed as the wind it's in. >> reporter: which leads to this question. how does it stay in the air? >> we are staying in the air because we heat the air inside and make it less dense. by making it less dense, we have become buoyant. >> reporter: that fire heats the air? >> heats the air, expands it. as it expands it it forces it out of the mouth of the balloon, making the balloon lighter than air which is why the aircraft categories call that lighter than air. >> reporter: just like an airplane or helicopter, a hot air balloon has redundancies to cope with most emergencies. >> what we have here are the equivalent of four engines. i have two separate fuel sources, two separate main blast valves and a bypass valve. any one of the four will allow the aircraft to fly. >> reporter: our altitude is about 1,000 feet. that's typical for a tourist trip. our pilot tells us he's been up to 11,000 feet in this balloon before. once you get to about 14,000 feet that's when you need extra. so how does it land? >> i can do one of two things.
i cannot put heat in and the balloon will cool off naturally and come down. then you can tap the brakes by putting a little heat in to slow it down. or this line right here goes to a vent in the top of the balloon. by opening and actuating the vent, i can start the descent. >> reporter: this grassy field is where we will shoot the approach. what's the main danger when landing? >> power lines. >> reporter: power lines? >> power lines and obstacles. what we are doing is coming in, you feel the wind in your face. this is a yard where we have prior permission. >> reporter: you are always looking out for the power lines. nothing worse. >> nothing worse. there is nothing worse. you gentlemen want to hold on to an upright. we will slide in here on this grass. five tons of energy. there you have it. >> reporter: nice job. >> you're home. >> reporter: gary tuchman, cnn, bel-air, maryland. just ahead, an exclusive.
dr. sanjay gupta goes inside the labs at a controversial blood testing company to talk to its founder. some saw her as the next steve jobs. then came lawsuits, sanctions and fraud investigation. leman's, we sip champagne and peruse my art collection, which consists of renaissance classics and more avant-garde pieces. yes, i am rich. that's why i drink the champagne of beers. i'm not a customer, but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. (to dog)give it. sure! it's free for everyone. oh! well that's nice! and checking your score won't hurt your credit. oh! (to dog)i'm so proud of you. well thank you. get your free credit scorecard at discover.com. even if you're not a customer.
a controversial blood testing device that sparked lawsuits, sanctions and fraud investigations. instead, she told them about a new invention. her company theranos has been under fire for the past year. once an off the charts success story, it's been brought to its knees and is now the technology that launched it remains cloaked in secrecy. the company has not released data on it, skepticism of how it really looks. dr. sanjay gupta got a look inside the labs for a tour with holmes. >> reporter: elizabeth holmes is opening the labs of therinos. in 2003, then 19-year-old elizabeth holmes dropped out of stanford. with the hope of finding small amounts of blood. testing blood may seem like a simple process but, in fact, there are numerous steps that can impact the results. for example, the tourniquet. how long is that supposed to be
on? was that the alcohol or iodine used to clean my arm? what's the size of the needle? and why are there so many tubes? the anti-clotting medicine is not standardized nor the various reagents used to do the testing, itself, yet alone the machines that finally spit out the results. a big $75,000 industry. they want all of it. what resulted is this black box. a mini lab. the company can run 40 tests on a tiny sample of blood. >> we designed it to allow the for the same operations a technologist can do in a laboratory. >> reporter: holmes believes a finger stick instead of a needle will make people more likely to get their blood tested. i'm going to do this myself. tiffany, hello. that's still a needle in there.
>> lansed. it is a poke. >> reporter: for what it's worth, this blood test put my cholesterol at 70. holmes wants to make this testing anywhere, anytime. >> no reason these can't be distributed in very, very decentralized locations. >> your home? >> yeah. you think people's homes should have these, essentially a clinical laboratory in their own house? >> i think that's a very interesting space. >> reporter: where the tests occur, the results need to be precise and accurate and that's where it starts to fumble. one study found the tests from theanos retail testing sites in phoenix, arizona, to have significant discrepancies but even more damaging an assessment from medicaid services which questions theranos' ability,
citing, quote, a global and long-term failure of the quality control program and demanding they get their act together. "wall street journal" investigative reporter first broke that story last october. >> theranos wasn't able to do so to the agency's satisfaction so agency now decided it's going to shut that lab down and ban elizabeth holmes from the blood testing industry for at least two years. >> reporter: holmes has until september 5th to appeal but in her first interview since the cms decision, she insists the technology was never to fault for the erroneous results. instead, she blames it on flawed operations and personnel. >> at the highest level, we didn't have the right leadership in the laboratory and we didn't have the implementation of the quality system in terms of procedures and the associated documentation to ensure we were realizing the quality standards that we hold ourselves to. >> reporter: of course, in the middle of all this are patients
whose health depended on theranos for accurate results. there's this man who goes by the initials r.c. right now in arizona who is suggesting that the lab results that he got from theranos were not accurate and it led to him having a heart attack. based on what you know, is it possible that what he's saying is true? could he have gotten a lab result that was so askew that he didn't act on it and then a month later, he ended up having a heart attack? >> i'm not the lab direct and so -- >> i know, but you're the ceo and founder of the company. this is as serious as it gets. >> what i know is that i put the best people in place to be able to investigate every aspect of this and ensure that we meet the quality standards that we hold ourselves to, and i know they're doing that. >> the biggest problem was going live with blood tests that didn't work or that worked only part of the time. >> reporter: theranos is under the microscope of the u.s. attorney's office and the securities and exchange commission about whether it
misled investors about its technology, but for now, holmes and theranos are hellbent on gaining back the significantly eroded public trust and proving the product they have to offer is the real deal. it's probably the most important question i think anybody who's watching has about this. does it work? >> yes. >> you're confident in that? >> i am confident in that. >> why did she keep this a secret for so long? >> reporter: well, you know, part of it, anderson, i think, she said she was worried the technology was so proprietary that somebody would come and basically take it from her. she didn't think the patent protections were enough to keep that from happening, so, you know, she started this when she was pretty young. she was 19 years old. i think that was sort solof wha led to the decisions. whether they were the right decisions to keep it secret, whether or not to publish any of the data around this in peer-reviewed journals, all of that in hindsight may not have
been the right decision, i think even she would admit that. >> what about the data, why isn't there any available on this? >> reporter: you know, it's interesting, so the -- she did present some data at that meeting today and did show me some of the data as well. i want to be very clear on this. the data they're presenting from therano strks where they compare this, but it's under the roof of theranos. the way it's typically done, you send this blood out to another laboratory, independent laboratory, a third party to try to verify this. that hasn't been done yet and is fueling a lot of the criticism, anderson. >> sanjay, thanks very much. appreciate it. we'll be right back. hi daddy! gain the freedom to fumble with the new water and
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before we go, a reminder wednesday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern, our town hall with gary johnson, his running mate, william weld. that does it for us. "cnn tonight with don lemon" starts now. any other candidate would be on the ropes right now, but donald trump, well, we'll see. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. hillary clinton gets a seven--point convention bounce. as the mogul turned reality star turned presidential candidate says vladimir putin wouldn't move into ukraine although putin sees a crimean peninsula. and his criticism of a man whose son died in iraq. and meanwhile, hillary clinton takes aim at tru