tv The Hunt With John Walsh CNN August 21, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
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i still have the rage. i waited years for justice. i know what it's like to be there waiting for some answers. and over those years, i learned how to do one thing really well. and that's how to catch these bastards and bring them back to justice. i've become a man hunter. i'm out there looking for bad guys. first and foremost, i'm an innocent man. krishna and jesus christ would be able to hold me in their gaze and see me as nothing more than another reincarnation of their eternal message. hence it should be clear, i am not a fugitive. if anything, though protected by the frivolous mask i wear to bear the pain of too much exposure to the world, i have always been present where oneness has seen to place me. >> this story unfolds with the
she definitely did not look like an accounting professor. if you told her something that was off the wall, she would just give you the biggest laugh. she had this cuky side to her. i met sue in 1985. she was an auditor and i was an accountant. on my first day on the job, nobody was friendly to me, and in walked sue, and her big smile on her face and her cool pink dress. i just looked at her. i knew she was going to be my friend. sue and i were fortunate to meet each other when we were 4 years old. we knew each other for 48 years. i would say a typical week we would probably talk almost every single day, and sometimes multiple times a day. i think probably the fact that sue and i were single probably had something to do with that
closeness. >> you know, we each had relationships. and they kind of came and went. but then we were kind of still there, so to speak. >> sue was probably the most important person in my life. i would say that my relationship with sue for the last five years of her life anyways, we became more like a family. we did a lot of things together. it was almost like we had a marriage. lisa and i and sue, every weekend there was a plan. we would do something. and i just never pictured us not being together. every morning, she would call me, monday through friday anyways. the thing was if ever we didn't
connect with each other in the morning, we would know something was wrong. >> that morning, october 25th, larry had left me a voice mail to say if i had heard from sue. and i called. and he was on his way to sue's house. >> as i was going down massachusetts avenue, i remember my heart was just racing. i knew something was wrong. i could just taste it. i have a key to her house so i went into her house. it looked like a robbery where people left. they were going to rob the place but left everything there. and i kept thinking this wasn't really happening.
you know, that this is not happening. i was kind of, not only panicked, but -- basically. i ran down as fast as i could and thought that maybe she had fallen or whatever, but it was obvious she hadn't just fallen. that something had happened. >> our 911 center received a call that morning. i believe it was around 10:00 in the morning if i'm not mistaken. the caller was larry march who advised he had went to check on his friend sue marcum and he advised the 911 call taker that he found sue deceased at the bottom of the basement stairs.
>> as i was driving to sue's house, i did not know if she were alive or dead. and there's a police car there. and now i'm like, oh, my god, why is there a police car here? >> we could tell from the forensics of the room that she had most likely been standing when she was hit. we didn't know at the time when we found her that it was a glass bottle. we didn't find the neck of the bottle until after we found her body. and just because of her general position, we had concerns she may have been strangled as well. we believed the upstairs crime scene was staged. so all of the things we saw upstairs in the kitchen with the
broken glass and the table, those could have happened after her murder. there's nothing to us that says those happened before. in her kitchen, i noted two shot glasses on the kitchen counter which piqued my interest. >> it's a strange phenomenon how a little bit smarter criminal than the normal idiots that are out there committing crimes think they can fool police. but it took five minutes for the police in this case to say this is an amateur. this is staged. this is a cover-up and a poorly botched cover-up for a murder. >> it's a monday. i'm sort of working my job, and i got an alert about a body in a house on massachusetts avenue in bethesda. i went down there. obviously, a crime scene. there's yellow tape outside the
house. and so i'm just sitting out there. you know, waiting to hear something. >> we were looking to develop a dna profile of our suspect. and for me, on this particular scene, it would come from the bottle that was found under her body and that she was hit over the head with. and potentially from her fingernails because there was a massive struggle there and from the shot glasses that were upstairs. when we submitted our items for testing, all three of those dna profiles came back to the same person. a great percentage of the time, the victim is going to know the perpetrator in one form or another. so my goal in going out there is developing what we call a victimology on the victim. learning everything we possibly can about them so that we can literally draw a circle around thim and put the three or four most important people in their lives in there.
initially when we were on the crime scene the day of the murder, dr. colbert and i were going through sue's office and in one of her drawers, i found a life insurance policy for $500,000 that listed jorge landeros as the sole beneficiary of that policy. of course, we had to figure out who jorge was. >> who is jorge landeros? that gets the big insurance policy and becomes the beneficiary later in her life? he's nowhere in her papers. he's not related to her. who is this guy? red flag. >> detective colbert did ask me a question about jorge. and i was taken aback. you know, to myself, it's like, why are you bringing him up? he's in mexico. >> sue talked about him like he was on a pedestal. he was like a god.
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sue met jorge in the summer of 2005. this was in her quest to better her spanish. and she found out about this class that he was teaching in dupont circle in this really dumpy church some place down there. and they began a friendship. >> he was born in mexico. came to washington. was a stock broker. worked for some of the big companies. morgan stanley, american express. did that for a little bit. then he got a lot more into yoga. really, really got into yoga n this parsed down lifestyle. while making that switch from stock broker jorge to, you know, spiritual yoga jorge, that's
when he and sue started spending a lot of time together. >> i do know there was a period of time he'd come to her house at the crack of dawn and they'd do meditation together. sue and i have another good friend kathy. we all went to dim sum together. and we think it was about four hours that we sat there and she just went on and on and on about jorge. >> she talked about him like he was on a pedestal. he was like a god. he was just -- she was so impressed with his intelligence. >> she was over the moon, and the stuff that she said to us kind of like run, sue, he sounds nutty, but the nuttier he was,
the more appealing he was to her. >> i had only met jorge once. i remember distinctly in 2006 in february. and i met with him on a saturday in this office. and he had some tax problems and sue wanted me to meet him and see if i could help him. he came with some notices from the irs saying he'd not reported all his income on his return. i always remember, in our conference room asking, well, why didn't you file a return? why didn't you, you know, talk to the irs. his words to me, well, i guess i was too coked up. i'll never forget that. >> i met him one time. i went to her house, and she wasn't there, but he was there. it seemed like, you know, like he owned the house.
i was like, well, what's this guy doing here? and why is he acting like this? and i let her know that. i was very honest with her. i don't like this guy. there's something about him i just don't like. >> you have to listen to your friends. sue marcum had good friends, close friends who said this guy doesn't pass the sniff test. you really, really should think about this and look into him in a much different way. she ignored all of it. when they say love is blind, it really, really is because this was the wrong guy, and everybody knew it except sue marcum. >> initially sue was interested in pursuing or seeing if there was something romantically that could happen between her and jorge.
i mean, it was a young guy who she saw as being bright. i think she was infatuated. >> she went on a big diet and got down to her goal weight. it was amazing. and then he wasn't interested. and she put the weight back on. but for whatever reason, she hung in there. >> probably in the first six months or so, she began to know that she couldn't talk about this because she knew that i would probably not approve. >> we knew he was in the picture, but she really didn't discuss much about the nature of their relationship. he only came up if she mentioned we did something, and i would say, who is we? and she said jorge.
kind of sheepishly. >> as common sense as she was, as good a businesswoman as she was, i don't know how she just didn't see through those clouded goggles that this guy was too good to be true. >> in the summer/fall of 2008, jorge had decided he was going to move back to juarez, mexico. and i assumed that they were in touch with each other, but i wasn't quite sure how much. >> she no longer brought him up. it seemed that she had freed herself from jorge, and she had thrown herself into her vegetable garden and students and tutoring and everything. and she just -- you didn't hear his name. >> i felt she was basically giving up anything that had to do with him.
it was like she just wanted a clean slate. and i never heard jorge's name again. >> i never saw jorge except for that one meeting in february 2006. and i will always remember saying, well, sue, have you given him any money? just emphasized, sue, just don't give him money. just don't give him money. >> we saw one check for $100,000. she gave it to him believing that he would give her a return on her investment and that doesn't seem to have been a part of his plan. this car is traveling over 200 miles per hour. to win, every millisecond matters. both on the track
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numbers with many, many, many zeros after them, and i had no clue what this was. >> what we learned is that sue had refinanced her house to a large amount of money and that she gave that money to jorge. it seems jorge was taking the money that sue had given him and investing it into what's known as a foreign exchange market. my understanding is that's a very volatile financial market trading in currencies. you can make a lot of money, but you can also lose a lot of money very quickly. it could have been anywhere up to between $250,000 and $300,000 that she gave him to invest. that money just disappeared. >> it's always about the money.
you know how cops always say follow the money trail? it sounds too simplistic, but he was after that money, and he did get a hold of that money. she started an account with his money in it so he could do his inept -- he wasn't good at it. he was a good con man but a lousy day trader. he lost her lots of money that i imagine took her years to save. >> we did access a gmail account that sue had, and in those e-mails, we could see over the course of time that whatever relationship she had with jorge was rapidly disintegrating into 2010 and certainly before. it seemed that she would try to learn information about what was going on with her investment and other aspects of their lives. he would not respond in a timely manner or his responses would be
short and kurt and clearly not satisfactory. >> and then he would come back with trying to bring her back into his web. we're going to do this. we're going to do that. the market is going to be this. and that was at the height of the recession. this was a completely crazy time for the u.s. economy. the federal reserve didn't even know what was going on. how could he have any knowledge to say that? she's a smart woman. i'm like, you have a masters degree. you're teaching this to your students. >> i bet she cried a lot about it because she's strong for everybody else and strong on the outside, but i know many, many times she's called me crying about things she was upset about. >> i think over the months as i learned more about sue and
jorge's relationship, i got really mad at myself that if she felt shat she couldn't share this with me. and i just felt really bad that either she didn't think that i wouldn't be judgmental or that i couldn't be there for her. >> in going back to the night of the murder, it's not hard to imagine that jorge came into town. he and sue got together to discuss their past relationship, and the finances and the money he owed her. it's very easy to see that that could lead to a very heated argument or some other sort of altercation. and it ended up with sue being killed.
we knew we had a suspect dna profile that we couldn't match up to anybody. so, of course, our thoughts turned back to jorge, and our objective was to obtain a dna profile from him for comparison. >> first and foremost, it must be made clear, i am an innocent man. though protected by the frivolous mask i wear to bear the pain of too much exposure to the world. >> don't hear that a whole lot from murder suspects. marcopolo! marco...! polo! marco...! polo! marco...! polo! marco...! sì? polo! marco...! polo! scusa? ma io sono marco polo, ma... marco...! playing "marco polo" with marco polo? surprising. ragazzini, io sono marco polo. sì, sono qui...
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jorge, as far as we know at the time, resided in juarez, mexico. and our objective was to get a dna profile from jorge that we could compare to what we knew was now an unknown male profile from the scene. >> we needed to make every attempt we could to get him back here. so i posed as a media specialist
for american university and i was writing an article about sue and that we had learned that she was, you know, very close to jorge and we would love to interview him. so on the 11th of may, jorge responded. i appreciate your invitation and congratulate you on your future piece for the paper. there's precious little i have to offer in terms of information about miss marcum. as your relationship was entirely private with an intimacy which as she deeply respected when she was around. i would be remiss to lend light to. still i thank you for the invitation and consider myself happy to have made your electronic acquaintance. yours j. and then i of course consider the world of free space and although do not officially extend an invitation, ballsy friends have come to war toes see for themselves the spectac elf globalization gone wild. bring your kevlar. that was that.
♪ >> my understanding is that there's a footbridge in el paso that crosses into mexico. he was crossing like clockwork every few days. when jorge would cross over the border, we would be alerted, and fortunately, we had a detective from the el paso police department who was able to make contact with jorge. that detective asked jorge voluntarily to submit what we refer to as a buccal swab. it collects dna cells submitted for comparison. jorge agreed to do that. signed a written consent form. it was collected and compared to the unknown male profile, and we just had to use patience and wait for that to develop.
>> what's is amazing is that he is so arrogant. he knows they're gathering evidence. he knows they are building a case. and he knows that he's the main suspect. and if he slips up, he may be back in an american jail facing a murder trial. >> you know, jorge had been around this area for at least ten years. he knew sue, a lot of people in bethesda, washington, d.c. and, you know it was important for him that they know that he thought he was innocent and that he was getting a raw deal. so he writes this e-mail that gets circulated among these people. >> first and foremost it must be made clear, i am an innocent man. my soul does not bear the scar of any misconduct. krishna and jesus christ, my two most cherished teachers, would be able to hold me in their gaze and see me as nothing more than another reincarnation of their eternal message.
>> don't hear that a whole lot from murder suspects. >> i will write later. this drama unfoals with the inevitable hit of a good greek drama. let us all enjoy our popcorn. >> so, you know, that's jorge being colorful. but sue marcum's friends, that's was a jab right to the stomach. how can you use that language when you're talking about such a tragedy. >> the narcissistic ramblings of a self-centered sociopath. it says loud and clear that he never cared for, never cared for her for one minute. that he's done something terrible. that he knows he can get away with it. he comes up with some stupid excuses, but it's basically a slap in the face to everybody that loves sue marcum. if he cared for her, what would he do? would he come back? would he try to find the killer? would you try to help the police
in any way you could? wouldn't you come back and say, i loved that person so much, i need to find out who killed that person? you wouldn't write that [ bleep ] diatribe and say it couldn't possibly be me. too bad. >> in april of 2011, we got our long-awaited dna profile back. and we learned that jorge landeros was a match to the male profile we developed on the scene of sue's murder. and based on that return and the information we learned from the profile, we were able to charge jorge with sue's murder. >> my phone rings, and it's jorge. so, you know, he's being gracious, but he's also letting them know that like, hey, i know what you guys know, and it doesn't bother me.
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once we had obtained our arrest warrant for jorge, i started doing searches of the internet to try to see if i could find out where he was going to be, and i learned he was going to be teaching a yoga class in a cafeteria/bookstore in juarez. we actually observed him in that cafeteria, but because of the way that extradition works between the united states and mexico, we weren't able to arrest him at that time. >> once i found out the detectives had issued a warrant for this guy's arrest, and also what i found out about this open letter he had written to his friends, i had enough to write a story, and i wrote my first story about jorge. i started getting calls from
people who knew him, and one day i got an e-mail from jorge. i thought maybe it was just -- could be a crazy person that was trying to draw some comment from me, but i wrote him back. gracious response that i'd like to talk to you. here's my cell phone number, and that's where i left it. >> was driving home from my office in rockfield. driving south on 270. and my phone rings. hello. and the voice said that it's jorge. and i was like, well, maybe it is this guy. i pulled off on the side of the road, and he's starting to talk to me. and it's very relaxed, measured, soft voice saying, you know, this is jorge and he started
talking to me a little bit about the story. so there i am. i start taking notes. and he says, look, i was at sue's house all the time. my dna is all over the place. and he volunteered that he and sue had a life insurance policy together. you know, this is a really smart guy. he's not calling me because he somehow thinks i'm some great journalist. he's trying to do something here. he's being gracious like i understand why the detectives are doing this. he's also letting me know, i know what you guys know, and it doesn't bother me and, furthermore, you can't get me because i'm in mexico. so there was a little bit of taunting. >> he knew from day one what he wanted to do and what he wanted
to get out of sue marcum. when they tried to bring him back, he was sitting there in mexico and said, i knew the game. i'm a mexican national. you're never going to get me back. you can try allior stupid tricks, every ploy to get me back, but he knew one thing. i got her. i exploited her. i killed her, and i'm safe where i am. i went on the run. ha ha, too bad. >> in may of 2011, i was contacted by the montgomery police department and they let us know they had a fugitive wanted for murder who had possibly fled to mexico. so at that point, he was in juarez. we knew where he was but had to get a provisional arrest warrant issued through the mexican government to effect his arrest. while we waitod the provisional arrest warrant, the case was at a standstill. eyes on him in juarez.
interpol red notice out so he'd be arrested if he crossed into any country friendly with the united states or if he crossed into the united states. at that point there was very little we could do to put hands on him and put him in handcuffs and bring him back here. >> so he called me again. the second time we talked for a long time. he talked about reading philosophy as a teenager, which i believed. i think that's sort of jorge there. as a teenager, he's reading philosophy. most of us don't do that. but he also has to tell you that. i think that sort of is a good window into jorge. >> it is the narcissism of the sociopathic con man that he's smarter than everybody else. that he pulled a perfect crime and he's going to get away with it because he's so brilliant. he's nothing but a con man. and just by a few lucky incidents, he's not where he
belongs. >> we had talked about his relationship with sue and, you know, i needed to ask the question which was, did you have an intimate relationship. this is what he said, reading from my notes here. we climbed that wall of romantic love at some point, but there was nothing behind the wall. there was nothing that could progress in that direction. you would expect someone who was that close to a person who had been murdered to be much more emotional. much more broken up when talking about her. certainly didn't get the sense he was like that. so we had five conversations. very clear on his final conversation that that was going to be it. and that he was, you know, maybe that was him totally going underground, i don't know. but in some ways he was being nice to me. look, i think this is it. you have all the questions you want to ask me.
and i haven't talked to him since. this is a really smart, manipulative, you know, and ultimately violent person. you have to consider that path. this is a guy at the end of the day who was capable of killing her. this car is traveling over 200 miles per hour. to win, every millisecond matters. both on the track and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. giving them the agility to have speed & precision. because no one knows & like at&t.
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so, at the time we were trying to get the provisional arrest warrant, i'd been at the burro less than a year. i thought it would be a fairly quick process. my colleagues said it was going to take a long time. i honestly did not believe them. it was applied for in the summer of 2011, and we didn't get it until january of 2013. at that point, landeros, when he knew we were going that route, he pretty much ceased all contact with anybody. he stopped contact in the press.
he stopped sending e-mails to law enforcement. i think he understood that we were really coming together. and as a result, we had no contact with him whatsoever since then. >> i keep sue in my life a lot. right after she died, i made a conscious decision that i wanted to have a picture of her in every room of my house. so there's a picture of her in the kitchen. there's one in my family room. downstairs, in my office, in my bedroom. >> sue had two cats. scooter and nutty buddy. and so i now have them.
i got the cats. well, i guess it's kind of like a piece of sue. that's -- with these cats around, even though they annoy me, it's what i've got left. nothing else. >> i just feel that we were all robbed. and that he took our friend. and i think that he just has no remorse and he needs to pay for it. it was a loss to so many people. her memorial service, i think there were 800 people there weeping. it was unbelievable. she wouldn't have believed it. >> a funeral in a way is a
standardbearer of how you lived your life. what you contributed to society. how you were perceived by your community and friends and people you worked with. it's amazing for a college professor that 800 people came to her funeral to pay their respects. she was that well loved. she was that well respected. and those people want to see this woman get the justice she so deserves. >> you know, i have to say that i don't know that jorge killed sue, and my stories reflect that. that there could be two sides of this. but, you know, if you're trying to figure out, what was jorge doing with sue, you have to consider that path. that this is a guy at the end of the day, you know, who was capable of killing her. so if you believe that, then, you know, you sort of have to blow everything up about, why was he interested in her in the first place? and why was he hanging out with her? and does he really like, even in
all those years, really not care about her? >> his behavior of preying on other people hasn't gone away. i'm sure he's taking advantage of someone. what level, how he's doing that, i don't know. i'd certainly think that he's still preying on other people and getting what he needs out of other people. >> i think he's very smug. and feels he's smart are than everybody and has gotten away with it so far. somebody is going to show him that he's not above the law. >> i think he thinks he's untouchable. i just hope that there are resources that the mexican government is cooperating and doing everything they can to find him. >> i think everybody has this misconception, criminals and the american public, that's if you want to be safe and get away from a crime, you can run to mexico. number one, i've gotten lots of
criminals out of mexico over the years. is it time consuming? yes. but people have been brought back from mexico repeatedly. repeatedly to face justice in the united states. and i truly believe deep in my heart this guy is going to get caught in mexico and get extradited back. he's going to be dragged back to pay for this horrible thing that he did to sue. >> there are always people that will prey upon other people for money or for other reasons. and without speaking to jorge, there's no way to know what his true feelings were for sue and whether this was just a relationship gone bad or something that was, you know, set up from the beginning. we'd all like to think that it's the other, that he cared for her. until we speak to him, we won't know. >> jorge landeros is fluent in english, spanish, turkish and
french. he prides himself hoslarge vocabulary. he is well read, likes to quote from literature in his daily conversations. his knowledge of financial markets and investments. he may be teaching or practicing yoga. if you have seen jorge landeros or have any information as to his whereabouts, please call 1-866-the-hunt. or go online to cnn.com/thehunt. we'll pass your tip on to the proper authorities and, if requested, will not reveal your name. ♪ >> i speak about sue in both tenses. i consciously try to speak of her in the present. it makes me feel better, but i also think it helps to keep her
alive. and i think i do it because i just don't like to think about her not being here. as a former fbi agent and chairman of the house intelligence committee, i had oversight of all 16 of our nation's intelligence agencies. my name is mike rogers. i had access to classified information gathered by our operatives. people who risked everything for the united states and our families. you don't know their faces or their names. you don't know the real stories from the people who lived the fear and the pressure, until now. the taliban regime was ruthless. there wasn't anything that they wouldn't do. >> any time you tried to speak to people about christianity, you were taking a tremendous thsk.