tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN September 4, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT
this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have a very important show for you today starting with an exclusive interview with the president of the united states, barack obama. o obama is on his last trip to asia. china, meanwhile, is laying blame in the south china sea. will president obama confront them? also, does turkey concern obama? its nato's second largest army and a crucial american ally.
i asked president obama what he thinks is motivating the unqualified support that working-class whites seem to have for donald trump. >> i think we have to pay close attention to what is going on. >> then, understanding trump's trip to mexico from the mexican perspective. former foreign minister tells us what his country thinks of donald trump now. but first, here's my take. as we are all consumed with the ups and downs of this bizarre campaign, president obama is on his last trip in office to asia. one of the purposes of the trip is to breathe life in to one of the ideas that has animated his foreign policy, the pivot to asia. it's a big idea and it's the right approach but obama is now the last man standing who is willing to push for it.
foreign policy is consumed with momentary crises. in the long run, the future is defined by the winners, not the losers. and when the flashpoints of tu have passed, the rise of asia will remain the dominant part of our time. four of the five largest economies in the world will be in the asia pacific. how should washington approach this region? one central task is to prevent china from dominating it. that job has been made somewhat easier by beijing's recent expansionist moves, moves that have alienated other eaasian countries. but this policy cannot just be about containment. china is the most important trading partner for every country in asia.
the larger project for america, explains kirk campbell, in his smart book "the pivot" is to bolster asia's operating system. in other words, the arrangements that have brought peace and prosperity, like free trade, multilateral groupings and institutions and the peaceful resolution of disputes. the most important of these right now, campbell notes, is trade. the transpacific partnership is a sign of the pivot to asia. it sends a powerful signal to china and, as president obama points out, writes the rules of the 21st send tree in ways that are fundamentally pro-america. without it, expect china to begin drafting those rules in ways that will be very different very soon.
and yet, the tpp is now under assault from every quarter in america. bernie sanders and donald trump flatly oppose it. hillary clinton and paul ryan say it doesn't meet their standards anymore. what these standards are, they never really specify. harvard universities robert lawrence points out that the gains from tpp for american workers far outweigh the losses. the notion often pedalled by trump, that the united states comes out badly in trade deals, can really only be said by someone who doesn't know much about the details. the simple reality is that the united states has the world's largest single-country market. officials from other countries have pointed out to me that washington uses this leverage by asking for exemptions that no other countries get. since markets are more closed than americas, the deal's net
result is to open them far more. i suppose one could argue that bernie sanders is at least acting out of conviction, though it is strange to hear sanders, a self-proclaimed idealist and socialist viciously denounced policies that have lifted hundreds of millions of the world's poorest people in china and india out of poverty. the other politicians, most importantly, hillary clinton and paul ryan, are shamelessly adopting positions that they must know are wrong. the republican party, in particular, has now reversed itself on two of its core beliefs, immigration and trade, going from being a party of openness to one that wants walls and tariffs. with the asia pivot, barack obama is pursing the enduring long-term interests of the united states. but he's doing so increasingly alone in a washington that is
causing isolationism and pandering. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read my washington post column. and let's get started. earlier in the week, i had an opportunity to sit down with an exclusive interview with president barack obama in the roosevelt room of the white house. later in the week, obama ended up in a trip in asia. let's give you my take on the controversial transpacific tip deal. don't worry, we'll get to the south china sea, turkey and, of course, donald trump later in the interview. president obama, thank you so much for joining us. >> great to see you. >> one of the centerpieces of your foreign policy has been the so-called pivot to asia, the idea of moving towards that part of the world where all of the
dynamism exists. it looks as though hillary clinton and paul ryan and donald trump is against it. >> i don't think that's correct. the politics of trade have always been complicated. let me back up and say that the idea of the rebalance was not to neglect other parts of the globe in favor of asia. it was rather to recognize that for a decade we have not been paying attention to asia at a time when it was undergoing this enormous transformation, the world's most populist region, the most dynamic market and that we had to make sure that we reminded ourselves as well as the region that we're an
asia-pacific power and the transpacific agreement is an historic agreement cobbled together among a very diverse set of countries. and the basic argument is simple. this is going to be the world's largest market. and if we're not setting the rules out there, somebody else is. what we have been able to do is not just establish a trade agreement among these countries, because many of them we already have trading agreements with. what this does is it raises the standards for trade so that there is greater protection for labor rights, greater protection for environmental rights, greater transparency, greater potential for intellectual property. it removes 18,000 taxes, effectively, tariffs, because we're a relatively open market and many of our trading partners have been closed. it gives us a huge lever to open
up markets for american goods and services and so there's no serious economist who hasn't looked at this and said this is not actually only a smart trade deal but it actually makes up for some of the failures of previous deals to have fully enforceable labor or environmental components. but what is true is that there have been, in the past always, a vocal, you know, set of interests that are opposed to trade inside my party, the democratic party, and what's been new is some populist anti-trade sentiment inside the republican party. having said all of that, it was said that we couldn't get the authority to even get a trade deal done and we got it done and i remain confident that we can get tpp passed. >> there's a similar pact for europe that's been negotiated and the vice chancellor of
germany just said that's dead, implying that trade is just not -- are we at a turning point where trade is -- free trade is just no longer popular in western societies? >> well, if i'm not mistaken, the german government then said that wasn't the case. but what is absolutely true, fareed, the combination of globalization has integrated the economies like never before. what i think has been the fault of those in charge of that integration process has been to not pay attention to the winners and the losers. overall, it has created enormous growth, prosperity and wealth for all of the countries involved. and part of the reason that we've seen billions of people
rise out of extreme poverty during our lifetimes has been because of that integration. but what's also true is that there has increasingly been, because of this integration, a tendency towards those of us who are highly skilled, highly resourced, have access to capital to be able to get a bigger and bigger share of that growth. people who are low skill, low wage, not mobile have had trouble getting leverage in this system. and so that divergence has created more inequality within advanced economies, whether it's the united states, countries like europe. and so part of the argument that i've been making consistently, part of the argument that i'll be making when i go to my last g-20 meeting is that if advanced countries don't pay attention to inequality, if we don't pay attention to not just growth in
the aggregate but how is that growth distributed and do people have ladders of opportunity in this new global economy, yes, there is going to be a reaction against global lie zags and trade, even though whether that resistance is coming from the left or the right, the prescriptions that they are describing somehow cutting off global trade are not very viable. the argument that i make to my progressive friends, you are right to worry about inequality but the answer is not to pull up the draw bridge. the answer, rather, is to make sure that everybody has high labor standards, that all countries are accountable to their citizens in terms of things like minimum wages, worker standards, making sure that there's an education system that people can access and, unfortunately, we haven't done enough of that.
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change your apartment. [boy] change your shoe! on friday, air force one took president obama on his last planned trip to asia for his presidency and his last g-20 meeting. the chinese president is hosting the other world leaders in the coastal city of hangzhou. i want to know what the president intended to say to his chinese counterpart.
listen in. >> when you're in china, are you going to be having a different series of conversations with the chinese leaders by which a lot of china experts look at what is happening in china and say you are seeing a new form of nationalism, you are seeing a new anti-western and anti-american nationalism whether it's regard to cybercrimes and cyberattacks, the businesses in the south china sea where china is doing what violates international law and its neighbors. is it time to get tougher on china? >> first of all, i don't think any of that is new. china has been run during our lifetimes by a communist party that has been much more anti-western in the past. we went through a period over the course of the years in the '90s and on through the onset of
my presidency because state-sponsored capitalism and export-driven model was very successful. china was less interested in making waves. it's one of the largest economies in the world. so it's to be expected that they will want a bigger seat at the table when it comes to international affairs and what we've said consistently is we welcome the peaceful rise of china, consistent with international norms. that's a good for everybody. an impof verished and collapsing china would not be good for
anybody. we want china to take responsibility for its own people and conflicts and whether it's conflict change or disaster relief or dealing with things like ebola. but what we have said to the chinese, and we have been firm consistently about this, is you have to recognize that with increasing responsibilities. you can't pursue mercantilist policies that disadvantage you now that you are a middle income country in many ways, even though you still have a lot of poor people, you can't just export problems. you've got to have fair trade and not just free trade. you have to open up your markets if you expect other people to open up your markets. when it comes to issues related to security, if you sign a treaty that calls for international arbitration around maritime issues, the fact that
you're bigger than the philippines or vietnam or other countries in and of itself is not a reason for you to go around and flex your muscles. you've got to abide by international law. and part of what i've tried to communicate to president xi is that the united states restrains itself. when we bind ourselves to a bunch of international norms and rules, it's not because we have to. it's because we recognize that over the long term, building a strong international order is in our interests and i think over the long term we'll be in china's interests as well. when we see them violating international norms as we have seen in some cases in the south china sea or in some of their behavior when it comes to the economic policy, we've been very firm and indicated that there will be consequences. but what we've tried to
emphasize to them is if you are working within international norms, we should be partners, there's no reason why we can't deal with the international problems that threaten both of us. >> i've got to ask you one question about the campaign. as you watch the support that donald trump has and you watch where it comes from, i'm wondering what you make of it because you've written in your past that these are the people who support trump and have suspicion about you. what do you make of that? >> well, look, there's a long tradition in the united states of inclusion, immigration,
diversity but also people, once they are included in what they consider to be the real america contaminating, polluting, messing up a good thing, that's not new. that dates back to the beginning of this country. and what i'm always reminding people is that although you'll see bumps, whether it's the no-nothings or other sentiment directed at the irish or southern europeans rather than the north europeans, the long-term trend is people get absorbed. people get assimilated and we benefit from this incredible
country in which the measure of your patriotism is not related to the color of your skin or last nath, your faith but rather your adherence to a creed and your belief in certain principles and values. i don't expect that that will change simply because mr. trump has a little more attention than usual. i think if you look at the current polls, he's been able to agree to a certain group of folks who feel left out or worry about the repeatidy and have legitimate concerns around the economy and feeling left behind but that's not the majority of america and if you talk to younger people, they ought to completely reject the kinds of positions that he's taking.
so we have to take it seriously. i think that any time we hear intolerance, we hear policy measure that are contrary to our values, banning certain classes of people because of who they are and what they look like, what faith they practice, then we have to be pretty hard about saying no to that and i think that america will do that this time as well. so overall, i'm optimistic but i think we have to pay close attention to what is going on. next on "gps," i asked president obama whether turkey is a safe ally after the attempted coup and counter-coup. should the united states still house their nuclear weapons there?
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shocked by erdogan's mass response and the silencing of many media outlets. i wanted to get president obama's take on all of this. when you look at the news that's come out of turkey over the last few weeks and months, the coup attempt, are you confident that turkey is a liberal democracy, a staunch ally where it's a force for stability in the region? or should we be worried? >> well, they've gone through a tumultuous event. this coup was serious. you had members of the military
engaging in treasonist acts against a democratically elected government and what was encouraging was the degree to which the turkish people, including those who were opposed to president erdogan, stepping up and saying, this is unacceptable. and that was, i think, the ray of hope that came out of what was a really challenging event. you now have a reaction by the turkish government that understandably is scared and concerned, imagine if something like that happened in the united states, the challenges that we would have in figuring out how to restablize a country. i have long said that the president erdogan directly even
prior to this coup that he began his career as a democratic and reformist and the danger, i think, of any leader is the longer you're in here, you have to constantly remind yourself of the values that you came in with and that if turkey cracks down on journalists in ways that are inconsistent with democratic practices, if democratic societies loses more space, the mere act of voting is not the only part of democracy, rule of
law, freedom of assembly, those are all part of it as well. i think the turkish people are going to be debating this and working through this over the next several months. we haven't seen a dil minute nishing effect security relations and working to defeat isil and are an important partner and whole range of security issues in the region. but no doubt what is true is that they have gone through a political and civil earthquake in their country and they've got to rebuild it. how they rebuild is going to be important and what we want to do is indicate to them the degree to which we support the turkish people. but like any good friend, we
want to give them honest feedback if we think that the steps they are taking are going to be contrary to their long-term interests and our partnership. >> we will have more of president obama later in the show when he will do part of my job for me. stay tuned. next up, trump's trip to mexico seemed a success for him but what did mexico think? the nation's former foreign minister will tell all when we come back.
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anti-immigration rhetoric that has been his trademark since the start. that's how it looked, at least, from the united states. but how did it look from mexico? i want to bring in mexico's former foreign minister, now a professor at nyu. jorge, before we get to the event itself, i want to ask you about the invitation. why would president pena nieto do this? the photo-op of the two lecterns, what did he get out of it? >> he got absolutely nothing out of it, fareed. and i think it was a huge mistake to send the invitations to both him and hillary clinton in the first place. basically, nobody in mexico understands what in the world he was thinking when he decided to bring trump down and give him this marvelous forum from which to look, as you said.
>> and the response seems pretty strong. i was reading some of it. enrique almost compared it to chamberlain meeting with hitler. there have been lots of people saying things that the way you deal with tyrants is you oppose them. the way for mexico to show that it was displeased was to in some way demonstrate that displeasure rather than surrendering and accepting an apology from trump. was that response more widespread in mexico? >> well, there's a poll where 85% of those asked last night
where they asked if it was a mistake for president pena nieto and i think it's a huge fiasco for the president, partly the result of his own weakness. he is not only low in the polls but he's facing social unrest, political divisions within his cabinet as the 2018 succession comes up. he probably did this as an act of desperation hoping to get something out of it. what he got out of it was to give trump more power and help him in his campaign in the united states and not get from him nor an apology or retraction on any of the major issues, the wall, who is paying for the wall, deportations, taxing remittances, reopening nafta, et cetera. it was a pretty pitiful day for
mexico and our country and it's even worse in the sense that this goes and helps someone that mexicans really detest. he has become a hateful figure in mexico like no one i can recall at least in my life, fareed, and he went back to his plu blustering and hateful nature a few hours after he left mexico when he gave the speech in arizona. >> do you worry that those relations between the mexican government and the american government, they worked closely together on everything from illegal immigration and all of that, all of that is going to be -- is it going to be jeopardized? >> what i'm worried about, fareed, is this is generating in mexico an anti-american feeling which always makes it difficult for any mexican government to manage the relationship, to work
as closely with the u.s. as we started doing back 15 years ago and has several governments since then. the substance hasn't really changed. the style perhaps has. the big difference is that now you have public opinion here which is really ferocious leanne tie trump. but that can move over to anti-american very quickly. >> jorge, thank you for those insights. >> thank you, fareed. up next, the jetson's and r2-d2, how would you like a friendly robot in your home? more he when we come back.
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help you learn, help you play, possibly even to be your friend? it may sound like something out of "the jetson's," but my next guest says it's much more real than the 1960s cartoon. founder and chief scientist of a company called jubo is joining me which is the maker of the first family robot. >> it's a pleasure to be here. >> you got interested in robots first by watching "star wars" and r2-d2? >> yes. it's the first time that i was captivated by any movie, really, and just seeing these wonderful, full-fledged characters that could relate to people in a personal way forever changed my
mind as to what a robot could be. >> explain jibo. amazon has one, obviously siri. one piece of it is it can hear human commands but there's a lot more to it. >> there's a lot more to it. there's a big difference between an information agent like siri or alexa. jibo is designed to be a helpful device for the home. so it brings together the sort of utility and helpfulness. but with this fun and companionship that i think is a much more welcoming and warm experience. >> explain it. i suppose i'm going to get lost in the detail. but you can actually write code or you will write code that will have the computer, the robot,
tell a joke, make some helpful suggestion about what you're cooking, talk about the weather. is that part of the idea? >> yeah. so starting back with just the field of social robotics, one of the really different things about the field is to say not only to create a machine but to ask a question what would it mean to have emotional intelligence or social intelligence? as humans we have different ways of being able to experience so some of the tasks are the economy to say take pictures than the way we use apps on our phone today. you can find your face, track you and take those pictures. i'm the family photographer. i'm not in any pictures. with gebo i can say take
pictures. also, his personality, to be able to take that picture. we have e-readers. it can engage you. it can get you to be able to have you put in inputs that put together a shared interactive experience. you can tell what it would be not only can tell the story but the way it can move it is perform and express to story. it is more like a really %-pe doing is these machines, these computers that have all of this information are finding an emotionally warm approachable socialable way to communicate with human beings. >> exactly.
it's saying what is it about people and how our minds work that lead to our most successful ways of rewarding ways in the world. because when we do low and behold people are actually more successful. they learn better. they are healthier. >> pleasure to have you. >> thank you so much. next, we have more of my exclusive interview with president obama. if you're looking far good book he has a couple of suggestions. whatever captain obvious. save up to 50% during the hotels.com labor day sale. and get an extra 10% off with promo code lastchance.
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book, powerful. it is discussing issues around race. >> and it's a sweeping history of the human race from 40,000 feet and part of what makes it so interesting and provocative is that because it's such a condensed sweeping history it talks about some core things that have allowed us to build this extraordinary civilization that we take for granted but weren't a given and it gives you a sense of perspective and how briefly we
have been on this earth, how short things like agriculture and science have been around and why it makes sense for us to not take them for granted. you know, it goes back to keeping the long view in mind. oftentimes when i'm going through a really difficult problem i think back to one of my first foreign visits and after i gave a speech there we went to the pyramids. we have all afternoon to wander through it. they kind of cleared out the crow crowds. you know, if pyramids live up to the hype. they are magnificent. as you're looking at the high
r egyptian government at the time you're reminded i'm sure they had their versions of polls and scandals and economic ups and dow downs, you know, what's left is those pyramids. so that's what i mean by not sweating the small stuff. in the sweep of history we get a very small moment in time. we try to treat people -- i always tell my daughters, treat people kindly, be useful, use your time well but remember you're part of the larger sweep of this big story that brings us all together. >> time and chance happen to them all. >> yeah, that's exactly right.
>> thank you. >> thank you so much. >> i enjoyed it. >> thanks again to president obama for his time and his thoughts and thanks to all of you for being part of this special edition of gps. i will see you back here next week for another special edit n edition, this time marking the 15th anniversary of the september 11th attacks. hello everyone. thanks for joining me. the donald trump campaign continues to try to clarify exactly what the republican nominee stance is on illegal immigration. rudy giuliani tried to make one thing clear, donald truonald tr not support mass deportations. he said trump would find it difficult to throw out a family who has been here for 15 years with three chil,