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tv   This Is Life With Lisa Ling  CNN  September 16, 2016 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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that does it for us this friday night. thanks so much for watching. time now for "cnn tonight with don lemon." so you think you've heard the last of donald trump's stance on the birther issue? think again. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. donald trump moving on to florida tonight, poking fun at hillary clinton. >> welcome to all of you deplorables. >> after five years, trump trying to put to rest his role in the questioning of barack obama's birthplace. >> president barack obama was born in the united states, period. >> but hillary clinton seemingly rested and ready after her bout with pneumonia, firing back on all cylinders.
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>> barack obama was born in america, plain and simple, and donald trump owes him and the american people an apology. >> and if trump is trying to win over african-american voters with just ten days before the first debate, i want you to listen to the withering criticism of the gop nominee from the head of the congressional black caucus. >> this is a disgusting day. donald trump is a disgusting fraud. >> there is a whole lot to get to tonight. and i want to bring in cnn's jeff zeleny. he's cnn's senior washington correspondent. phillip bump is here, "washington post" political reporter. cnn political analyst, maggie haberman is here as well, a presidential campaign correspondent for "the new york times," and david swordlick, an assistant editor at "the washington post." jeff, you first. donald trump was speaking at a rally in miami a short time ago
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and i want you to listen to this remark he made about hillary clinton and her secret service protection. >> i think that her bodyguards should drop all weapons. they should disarm, right? right? i think they should disarm. immediately! what do you think? yes? yes. yeah. take their guns away. she doesn't want guns. take their -- let's see what happens to them. take their guns away, okay? it would be very dangerous. >> so it's not the first time that he has said something like this. let me play this clip from august 9th. >> hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. by the way, if she gets to pick -- if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. although the second amendment people, maybe there is, i don't know. >> jeff, there was tremendous reaction and fear after he said that in august. why would he -- the question is, why would he repeat anything
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that sounded even vaguely threatening? >> well, don, he has talked about the second amendment several times at speeches and rallies and he talks about her bodyguards, how they should be disarmed. one, they're secret service agents and he has the exact same contingent. so it's not that she has some type of separate bodyguards, but, two, i heard him say something different in miami tonight. it was six words. let's see what happens to her. and i think that escalates it to the next level here. it's something that the secret service did not like it when he said, the first time in the sound we showed there. and they certainly won't like this. i think donald trump, we know, after watching him at so many rallies, he feeds off the crowd. and i think given his earlier event in washington this morning, when he clearly did not, at least, it seemed to me, did not want to be giving that speech and was not feeding off that crowd, he fed off that crowd tonight, and they were sort of giving him a call in response. and let's see what happens to her. but to me, it sounds like it
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crosses a line. 53 days before an election, talking about anyone's security, certainly, an argument about the a second amendment is fair game. although she does not want to take away people's guns. that's not her position. but saying, "let's see what happens to her," i think it crosses a line and i think he'll have to -- that this is going to be revisited. >> maggie, what's your reaction? what do you think he meant? >> i think that jeff is absolutely right. and i think that donald trump has this habit of sort of, you know, swarming the media with a bunch of different things. he had a rough day earlier today, i agree with jeff. he did not appear to want to be giving that statement. my impression was, it was going to be a bit of a different statement than what he was going to end up saying. i think what he was supposed to say was a little more fulsome. he gave a very quick, i think it was 32 seconds overall and left, he ignored shouted out questions. he doesn't like this topic. i think his strategy during the primaries was to basically say 50 different things a day and none of them would really stick. and i think there is something to that. i do also agree with jeff,
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though, that i think that he get, he feeds off theserally crowds, he likes the energy, he gets into it. and there is something about walking up to the line and crossing it that he has always seemed to get something of a thrill from. this is a very different circumstance. you were talking about potential assassination of a major presidential candidate, and the secret service didn't like it. >> is this donald trump off-teleprompter, or do you think this was a strategy to get people to move on and stop talking about the birther issue? >> it was certainly not on teleprompters. he didn't have teleprompters there. we've seen him stick to teleprompters when he was making this big comeback in the national polls, he was not saying things like this. the last time we saw it was in early august when he was doing battle with his staff. if this was a strategic calculation to say something to get the media's attention, i'm not sure this is the angle he wants people to focus on. he had a bad day, it didn't go well, his statement was weird about how he was renouncing his birtherism. but i'm not sure now, if he's talking about, does he want
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someone to assassinate hillary clinton, i don't think that's a better conversation to have. >> before we move on to the birther thing, what do you make of these latest comments? >> i echo the comments of jeff, maggie, and phillip, but this is a really sophomoric line of reasoning, right? reasonable people can disagree about the second amendment and gun control. but the president of the united states, the candidates, are running to be the leader of the free world. our system only works when the president is safe and secure. if donald trump becomes president, his kids, his wife will have secret service protection. his youngest kid will have a secret service detail follow him to school, as it should be. because we don't -- regardless of party, you don't want people to be hurt. so this idea that just because there's a disagreement about gun control, that you can just throw off this up to the line or over the line remark about, oh, well, see if she can try it like regular people, it just is -- it doesn't make any sense. >> all right, let's move on and talk about the birther issue today. i want to play donald trump's
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statement today. listen. >> hillary clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. i finished it. i finished it. you know what i mean. president barack obama was born in the united states, period. now we all want to get back to making america strong and great again. >> so, jeff, he started off that statement with something that was factually inaccurate. after five years of spreading this conspiracy theory about the president, he gave a 30-second statement admitting what 70% of americans already knew. in political circles, what's the reaction? >> well, the reaction has been that, a, it was clear that he did not want to be giving this sort of admission today. he was doing it for one reason.
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the facts in his argument, his flawed argument, we should say, have not changed. but what's changed is, we're 53 days before the election, and his advisers have told him that he needs to expand, you know, his appeal, at least, you know, in some circles here, african-american voters, perhaps others, to white suburban voters. so it looked like he was drag there had kicking and screaming after, you know, talking to "the washington post," just, you know, two days ago, not acknowledging this. that's why he had to acknowledge it. but look, by saying that the clinton campaign started this, it's not true. she did not start this. yes, back in 2007, one of her strategists had a memo out at the time, mark penn, sort of exploring a line of thinking, that they could go after, sort of question the roots that obama has. and his otherness. it was not birtherism, though. and that's a long time ago.
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he was not a twice-elected president at that point. so she did not start this. and she has never talked about this. she never pursued that line of argument. so by him also saying that he finished it, i don't see what he finished. had he finished it, he would have come to this realization a long time ago. not today at high noon at his brand-new hotel in downtown washington. >> yeah, he would have come to the realization, one would think, after the president produced this has long form birth certificate in 2011. you know, sitting at home watching it, as most people do, you know, sitting in their living rooms, what have you, or listening to it on the radio, it was not only offensive in that, you know, how he treated the president, but also that he used the veterans as props, that he promoted his hotel, maggie, and that he gave 30 seconds to an issue that he sort of conned the public into -- or the media into coming there for and the public into thinking that he was going to be there for that one reason. so, did he put this behind him or did he make it exponentially worse with all of the shenanigans today? >> i think the goal in large measure wasn't just about the 53
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remaining days, it was about the fact that in ten days-ish, there's going to be the debate. and i think his advisers wanted to get this done with. but this didn't end it by any stretch. there are follow-up questions, do you feel sorry about it? do you regret it, are you going to apologize to the president? none of that has been resolved. in terms ftd event itself, the veterans who were there in support of him, these military figures, they're making a choice, and i don't want to denigrate their political choice. but i think it raises questions to do an event the way they did it, when he was surrounded in this way and tacked on at the very end. >> with a general who was a birther. >> yes. and then he took all of the -- or some of the cameras on a tour of his hotel and because of the way it was done, and this was a first, the broadcast pool erased the tape. and said they were not going to air this, because there was a bar on editorial reporters coming along. it was just cameras. so there is a bit of a difference in today what we have
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seen. i think that this is the second time this week where trump has used something to gin up excitement. he even said this morning, on a cnbc interview, that he needed to keep the suspense going about what he was going to say. >> about dr. oz and the health report. >> correct. and this morning in terms of the birther issue, he suggested he wasn't going to answer it right away because we have to keep the suspense going, so i'm not going to answer it here. which suggests that he's treating it like a game. which, some voters are fine with that, some are not fine with that, but it's a risk this close to the election. >> and also they're talking about, he has been so critical of the clinton foundation and the two mixing. and there have been questions, we didn't talk about it, because he sort of changed the subject with the health thing with dr. oz, that came out in "newsweek" about his business handlings, his business dealings, and how maybe the campaign and his businesses are -- he didn't help that today by giving people a tour and promoting his businesses on national television, his hotel. >> he didn't help his campaign, no. i assume he helped the trump hotel that's going to be open to the public soon. there are so many questions
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about today's event that it's sort of hard to parse them just sitting here. but, yeah, you're right. one of the things, david gergen made a great comment a couple of days ago, that donald trump is not a public servant. usually we have elected officials that are public servants. we can look at public service record and evaluate them. donald trump's a business man. it is very hard for us to know how he's approaching this thing, besides these little hints that he gives, that treats it like a reality tv show, that treats it like an add for his totals. -- holts. at the same time, he gives this statement that does no political good. he says -- he doesn't say anything about why he did this thing has made so many people upset. and without saying why he did it, nobody is going to say, okay, it's fine he did it, then. >> david, why are people falling for the old okey-doke. what's going on? what does this say about us? >> i'm not sure people are falling for the okey-doke. i think phillip's right. the way donald trump came out today and phrased his answer, it doesn't close the door on this. at the first debate a week and a half from now, you know, i don't see how a question cannot be
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asked, so, if it's just that president obama is a u.s. citizen, period, as donald trump said, then, what were the last five years all about? i mean, if you looked at trump's demeanor today, don, he looked like someone who was forced to do something that he really didn't want to do. this was a source of tremendous humiliation for him, back in 2011, and you know, i don't think this is going to shut the door on him. have people fallen for it? i think it's a little bit baked into the cake, if you don't like president obama, you're inclined to brush this off. if you're someone who doesn't like donald trump, you're inclined to say, well, see, that's why people don't like donald trump. i don't think it's a game changer, but i do think it makes it a little harder for trump to get the news cycle back in his favor. >> well, i also think it's just for decent people who have some sense about them that they are offended by the remarks today. and you're right, it's there kind of like, there, mama, i ate the spinach, are you happy now, the way the words came out of his mouth. but i want you to listen to hillary clinton's response.
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>> his campaign was founded on this outrageous lie. there is no erasing it in history. he is feeding into the worst impulses, the bigotry and bias that lurks in our country. >> so, how is this going to play with voters, jeff? how do you think? >> well, i think for, you know, donald trump's supporters, they will either be with him or blame the media for, you know, talking about this. but i think for the voters that secretary clinton is after, we talk about the supporters of the president, the obama coalition. she's been having some trouble sort of inspiring them and rallying the obama coalition. donald trump did that for her today. he did a lot of -- in that moment, and you can bet that 32 seconds is going to be replayed in some type of advertisement, her super pac, or the super pac that's supporting her is already advertising to african-american voters about this issue.
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i think that people who, like, maybe had forgotten about this or thought, oh, surely he must have dropped this by now, will be reminded that he, you know, did this in this way here. so i think it the fired up democrats. it fired up african-american leaders. it's also happening in the same weekend of a big meeting here in washington. tomorrow night on the same stage, the president and the secretary are going to be talking to the congressional black caucus, which has african-american leaders from across the country. of course they will be talking about this, and that's simply, people take this back to their communities. i think this fires up african-american voters. young voters, other voters, and it's not good for donald trump, politically. >> and we'll have special live coverage of that event form night when the president speaks and also hillary clinton, and i'll be anchoring that coverage 8:00 to 10:00 here on cnn. i want to play this. this is a clip from the first lady today, michelle obama. >> so if a candidate is erratic and threatening, if a candidate
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traffics in prejudice, fears, and lies on the trail, if a candidate has no clear plans to implement their goals, if they disrespect their fellow citizens, including folks who make extraordinary sacrifices for our country, let me tell you, that is who they are. that is the kind of president they will be. trust me. >> i'm wondering if this episode reinforces hillary clinton's argument that trump doesn't have temperament to be president, and also, if this sort of, you know, in some ways, tamps down the criticism that she's gotten about the deplorables comment. >> well, we're not talking about the deplorables comment. granted, it's been a week. but it's only come up because donald trump mentioned it earlier. i think that this does a lot of things for hillary clinton that are beneficial. to your point about temperament, yes, him standing up there and his response to it, which was, obviously petulast night.
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does do anything to make anybody feel he isn't money reacting out of emotion. the number one concern that people have about him is his temperament. but secondarily, we should keep in mind, this is also a fight about white republicans. and hillary clinton has done a lot of work to try to tell white republicans that it's okay to step away from the party for this election cycle. we've seen in "washington post" a fif fifth of republican men and a quarter of republican women think that donald trump has an issue with racism or sexism. it's part of the reason why his numbers are lower with republicans than they could be. and hillary clinton now gets to use this to reinforce, look, this is what i'm talking about. >> it was a gift to hillary clinton today from donald trump. thank you, all. i appreciate it. coming up, donald trump is trying to the birther issue behind him, yet still blaming it on hillary clinton. will this backfire on him? our three collections pair up to create the perfect bed for two.
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hold on. let me ask you this... what's she gonna like six months from now? who do we have on aerial karate? steve. steve. steve. and alexis. uh, no. just steve. just steve. just steve. live business, powered by sap. when you run live, you run simple. donald trump makes an effort to put the birther movement behind him, but did he make it even worse today? joining me now is former trump campaign manager, corey lewandowski, who is still receiving severance from the trump campaign and cnn political commentator. cnn commentator, van jones, bruce level of the national diversity coalition for trump and mayor karen weaver of flint, michigan, who is a democrat. so good to have all of you on. let's talk about this. corey, to you first. today donald trump admitted the president was born in the united
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states, but in the same breath, he blames the entire birther issue on hillary clinton. how does that help him? >> well, you know, what he said was, he put this issue to rest and it was an issue that the clinton campaign specifically, sidney bloomenthal raised with the mcclatchy news editor in 2008, and specifically sidney bloomenthal of the clinton campaign at the time asked the editor to look into where barack obama was born and mcclatchy at time sent a reporter to kenya to find out if it was -- >> corey, that is not true. >> this is what mcclatchy is reporting. >> cnn reached out to bloomenthal, who told our person who reached out, this is false, period. donald trump cannot distract from the fact that he is the one who embraced and promoted the birther lie and bares the responsibility for it. >> in 2008 -- >> there is no definitive proof -- >> don, don -- >> hold on, corey. there is no definitive proof about what you're saying about bloomenthal. go on >> i'm reading you from mcclatchy news services from 7:29 tonight that sidney bloomenthal is on the record of asking this. and a clinton staffer in iowa is
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on the record as asking for this to be sent forward in an e-mail. and moreover, it is unequivocal that penn, who is her lead strategist, wrote about the fact that there was a potential of exploiting barack obama's potential of where he was born. >> corey, we're re-litigating this. we've talked about it a million times, every single fact check. >> but, no, you're saying -- >> that it is false. >> you're raising theish with donald trump. donald trump didn't raise the issue. he put the issue to bed. two very separate things. >> that's not true. go ahead, van. >> well, first of all, it's bizarre to me, because donald trump does not follow hillary clinton or her staffers on tax policy. he doesn't follow hillary clinton or her staffers on foreign policy. he doesn't follow hillary clinton or her staffers when it comes to trade policy. but somehow, for some reason, a hillary clinton staffer -- you know, say you're right, say you're right! went on some bizarre lark, and then for five years after the president of the united states put the birth certificate on the
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counter, he can't let it go. this is exactly what my children do. don't blame me, blame my big brother. my big brother did it first. no, it was my little brother that started it and i was just following along. if you want to be president of the united states, you have to take responsibility for your own positions, your own judgment, and you can't blame other people. this is exactly what's wrong with donald trump. >> mm-hmm. corey? >> look, donald trump today was unequivocal and he said barack obama was born in the united states. i don't understand why it's still a controversy? the only people that are making it a controversy are the mainstream media, because they wanted the opportunity to ask questions. today's press -- today's avail in washington was never designed to be a press conference, and the media is upset that they didn't have the opportunity to ask questions. but it was never designed to be a press conference. and donald trump was unequivocal today in his statement that barack obama was born in the united states. >> he never said he was wrong. he never said he was wrong about it. >> but, corey -- >> but you're moving the goalpost.
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you're moving the goalpost. what you're saying is, does donald trump believe the president was born in the united states? and his answer is, yes, i do, unequivocally, period. >> no, no -- >> i don't understand what the controversy is. >> i'll try -- >> he's either right or wrong. is hillary clinton wrong when she doesn't release all her e-mails. >> let him answer. >> you're confused and you need help, i understand. so i'm trying to help you. >> thank you. >> the reason it's still a controversy, corey, is because he didn't say this was disproven, it's wrong, here's why i continued with the innuendos for years and years. he didn't give full context. instead, he tried to blame his kid sister, hillary, for everything he's done for the past five years. and because of that, it shows not just a lack of judgment in pursuing this, but now a lack of character, in not being a stand-up person and taking responsibility for your actions. and that's why it's still a controversy. i hope that helps you. >> look, look, here's what it comes down to, right? for the last 24 hours, people have said, donald trump did not
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say, himself, that barack obama was born in the united states. it was a statement by his campaign and he needs to come out and say this. so you know what donald trump did today, he came out and said "barack obama was born in the united states." >> those same voices have said that he needs to apologize to the president, none of which he did. >> no, no. >> they also said that he needs to admit he's wrong. >> when is barack obama going to apologize to donald trump for all the incendiary things he's said. is that going to happen? are we holding the press account able are we holding hillary clinton -- >> incendiary is not factually wrong, not a lie. and incendiary is something different. >> it's open to interpretation, at best. >> no. okay, the truth is not open to interpretation. i want to move on. here's how members of the congressional black caucus responded today. >> so to lie and say that the birther movement was started by hillary clinton and he was finishing it and that he was born in america and then walk
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off, has got to stop. >> this is a disgusting day. donald trump is a disgusting fraud. by any definition, donald trump is a disgusting fraud. >> this is the moment. it's a defining moment, for all of those who want to denounce bigotry and racism, to step forward now. and to really demand first that donald trump stop it, but secondly, to demand an apology from this man, because this is what his presidential campaign has been about. >> so, bruce, pretty stern words. what do you say to african-american voters tonight. why should they continue to support donald trump at all? >> don, i'm just shocked. first off, for example, ever since i've come on this show, every single time, every guest that we have, it's always been name calling, name calling, name calling, he's this, he's that. and, you know, guys, at one point, we're talking about mr. trump was a private citizen. he didn't become a candidate until last year.
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and just for the record, in 2007, you know, a lot of people have short memories, it was so much bad language going on, van, you know this. you worked for president obama, between biden and clinton, it was so harsh, the way they were treating him and what they said, the cheap -- as corey said earlier, the clinton strategist, mr. penn, who said, we question his even -- his american roots. you know, so, at the end of the day, all presidents who get on the ballot and want to run for office. mccain went through it, was he born in the islands? romney went through it. president bush, his war record, his military record, per se. you know, this is part of the vetting process, guys. and the one thing that really disturbs me more than anything, every time, every show, everywhere i go, they take this birther movement, we put the cbc on tv, give them a long time to talk, and try to marry racism into something that was just
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what every candidate goes through. when you run for office -- wait a minute. when you run for office, the first thing we go down the list, van, we know that. we check where your residency are, are you qualified? everyone goes through this. i want the american people to realize in 2007, the harsh things that were said against president obama, as a republican, a black man, i was totally appalled. like, oh, my god, look at this! this is the primary. >> so you're not appalled this time? >> beg your pardon? >> you're not appalled this time? >> no! >> don -- >> but you said every time you come on a show like this, bruce -- >> no, no, a lot of shows. >> i haven't heard anyone tonight call -- >> every time i come on here, i was on this show a few weeks ago, and every time, it's always a name-calling, name-calling mr. trump. he's a racism, he's xenophobic, he's this, he's that, you know? and then we take this birther and try to marry it into the african-american community, put the congressional black caucus and put -- merge it together? that's ludicrous! >> go ahead, van. and i want to get mary weaver in. she's sitting by very patiently. go ahead, van. >> i don't want to take her
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time. i don't think we're right to -- trying to marry it to racism. there's a reason -- >> no, sir, y'all did it today! the cbc did it today. >> i don't think we're trying to marry it to racism. i think they're twins. they don't need a marriage ceremony, they're related. and they're related in the minds of the klan and the aryan nation -- >> no. no, no, no. >> -- trump for his birther position. >> marian weaver, what are you hearing in your community about today's event? >> well, you know, it's just been very interesting, not only to me but to people i've talked to in flint, that while this controversy has gone on and on for years, as we've, you know, heard people saying, that in 30 seconds up to say, yes, he's an american citizen, he was born here, and that should be the end of it. ped and that doesn't bode very well in the african-american community. and that's where he's really trying to get some votes. so that's why he wants to put this to bed and move on. but we've offended by this for years now and 30 seconds doesn't
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do it. >> all right. we're going to take a break. i'll let you respond on the other side of the break, bruce. be right back. (announcer vo) who says your desk phone always has to be at your desk? now, with one talk from verizon... hi, pete. i'm glad you called. (announcer vo) all your phones can work together on one number. you can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. take your time. i'm not going anywhere. (announcer vo) and when you're not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. hi, john. (announcer vo) so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first.
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okay. i'm back now with my panel. bruce, i want to go to you, because you wanted to weigh in. what mayor weaver said, is how can you expect an issue that's been happening over five years to be put to rest in 30 seconds. >> with all due respect to the mayor's last question, first off, the american people should be offended on the failed policies that's been taking place in flint. i had family, don, who lost everything with -- >> bruce, we're talking about the birther issue. >> well, you know -- don, you know, look, at the end of the day, a donald trump administration is -- well, first off, let me put it to you like this. the deal is that everyone's all emotional. they know that we're surging in our polls. they know we're doing well. this last-ditch effort to throw this, whatever this theory out here to scare the black voters away is not going to work. so this is a ploy -- >> it's not last-minute. we've been asking for five years for this man to stop with his
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delegitimating the commander in chief of the united states. and you know what? half the country believed him -- >> van -- >> you spoke very well and powerfully, sir. i was appreciating your position. >> okay. >> but, listen. had he been successful, donald trump, in getting the country to believe that this man was not the commander in chief, legitimately, that is an incredible reckless thing to do. we have soldiers in the field who would not know whether they should obey orders or not. so he was doing something that was not just racist, but reckless, and it took five years to get him to come out and make one sentence. and now we're supposed to just be happy? when you paint the side of a barn for five years one color, and you come back out and one second with one stroke, you think you -- no, you have to do a lot of work the with this community to repair the damage. >> hey, don, you have to remember, also -- corey, i'll let you get in. but on top of that, the president was a muslim. if he was a muslim, what does it matter? under american constitution, the
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>> freedom of religion. >> the first amendment you can run for a president if you're muslim, if you're catholic, if you're baptist, it doesn't matter. and also, saying if he releases his college transcripts, this all went hand in hand, thenally -- i will give money to a foundation and i'll release all of this. and corey, you said that he put this to rest, okay? so i'm wondering how this is putting this to rest. let's put this up. because he continued to question the authenticity of the president's birth certificate and of the president even after the president produced his birth certificate. this is in 2013, he said, trump, how amazing the state health department doctor who verified copies of obama's birth certificate died in a plane crash today. all others lived. and there's this tweet where trump says, an extremely credible source has called my office and told me that barack obama's birth certificate is a fraud. and there are numbers of interviews where he says, i don't know if the birth certificate is even real. how is that putting it to rest, corey? >> look, don, he was very public today and said that barack obama was born in the united states. and what no one is remembering is that in --
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>> but did he get some special evidence today that negates, you know, that -- >> no, excuse me -- >> -- that the birth certificate is authentic, all of a sudden? did he share that? >> donald trump was very clear today and he said, barack bottom was born in the unite d states. what no one remembers is that in 2008, hillary clinton's campaign put out a photo of barack obama in kenyan gear that her campaign had to apologize for and david plouffe called it the most racist thing of the campaign cycle. that was barack obama's campaign manager at the time. no one's talking about that. what else no one is talking about is sidney bloomenthal has been a member of the clinton foundation and he's the one who perpetuated -- >> we've discussed that. so far, there's no evidence of that. >> -- that barack obama may not be born in the united states. where is the apology from sidney -- >> corey, again, there's no proof that that is true. >> where is the apology from sidney bloomenthal? >> there is no proof. >> there is proof! it's a firsthand account from a news outlet. >> okay, that doesn't mean that it's true. go ahead. >> look -- >> first of all -- >> corey, you had your turn.
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>> heres at other problem. van, hold on one second. here's the problem. the "l.a. times" poll that came out today, donald trump is getting 19% of the african-american vote. you know what that means? it means the african-american community -- >> it means it's a bad poll. >> again, that is not a cnn poll. that is not a cnn poll. >> i didn't say -- i said the "l.a. times." i didn't say it was a cnn poll. the "l.a. times" poll shows the that donald trump is getting 19% of the african-american vote. what it also shows clearly the government statistics show that 26.1% of the african-americans in this country live in poverty. >> okay. >> corey, hold on -- >> i have to say, this van, before you get in. that poll does not -- that poll does not meet the cnn standards. >> and you're a professional. and you know better than to take
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one outlier poll and pretend -- somebody in your position, especially, know that you have to look at the averages. and the averages show that trump is doing historically awful when it comes to african-americans. and there's a reason for it -- >> that's not true. the trafalgar poll in south carolina this week showed -- >> corey, let him finish. >> are you the host? can i talk now? when you get your show -- >> i'm telling you you're wrong. >> and i'm telling you you're wrong. when you look at the poll of polls, he's doing historically awful with african-americans. anyone who has a computer can look it up. i don't want to rg with you about that. here's the difference. you're trying to say other people have sinned when it comes to barack obama and making racial innuendo. and corey, you are right, that, in fact happened. it happened a long time ago and they stopped. they didn't do it repeatedly. they didn't do it over and over and over and over again for years. >> they didn't till the soil and make it fertile. >> when did trump talk about this issue? >> after the president in 2011 put it to bed, as late as 2014 he was out there tweeting about it. and he's been asked repeatedly, and he said he didn't know over and over and over again. >> and also this year, as well. >> -- private citizen -- >> but the private citizen that
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once was is now running for president of the united states. >> corey, listen, you guys can't have it both ways. when he's building buildings, you say he's a private citizen and that counts. when he's out there giving millions of invisible dollars to invisible organizations, you say that counts. but when he's out there making no sense at all, he's a private citizen. he's not a professional politician. you can't have it both ways. >> what you guys don't want to acknowledge -- >> i need to get mayor weaver in. >> that's the point, donald trump never raised this issue. this was raised by the clinton surrogates. >> corey, that is patently false. come on! >> it's actually not false. >> he is the one who carried it -- >> -- raised in 2008. >> i sent investigators to hawaii, i sent investigators to africa, you won't believe the stuff i'm finding out. i don't know if the birth certificate is even authentic. there are people who still believe the birth certificate is not false. i'm still not sure it's an accurate birth certificate. mayor weaver. is there anything that we can do
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to fix this at this point? >> you know what's interesting? the other thing that happened, look at what happened in flint a couple of days ago when he came to the church, and what happened with the pastor that was there. you know, this lady stood up to him and said that you are here to thank the people that have been handing out this water all of this time and instead he chose to attack her for that. and said that she was a nervous mess, but she was the same lady, the same pastor that stood up and stopped the crowd from heckling and said, be respectful. but he didn't say anything about that. so we see it again. >> yeah. thank you all. i appreciate it. i'm out of time. i'm sorry. coming up, was donald trump's involvement in the birther movement fueled by racism? we'll discuss.
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so, members of the congressional black caucus calling donald trump a racist and a fraud, for his involvement in the birther movement. joining me now is charles blow, the op-ed columnist for "the new york times," and f. michael higenboten. a law professor at university of baltimore. author of "ghosts of jim crow,"
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gentleman, good evening. it's good to have you on on this friday night. so this all started, i'll go to you first, charles, 2011, when donald trump first started with this birther movement, questioning the president, was he born in the united states? why was this insinuation so racist and insensitive. people are saying, it wasn't. why was it? >> barack obama's success was something a lot of people did not want to accept. and a lot of people looked for ways to make their -- get their heads around the idea that he could not have been as good as he was. he could not have achieved at this level. and part of that, part of trying to knock him down was to other him in every way possible, including ways that depended on traditional and old and ancient stereotypes. so that was everything from trying to say that he was not legitimate, he was not born here, that on his birth certificate, it may say --
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donald trump said this -- that's he's a muslim. that's a lie. that he may not have gone to columbia, as he suggested and did well. donald trump also said that people there said they never saw him. that was a lie. that he may not have even written his best-selling book, because as donald trump said, it read like hemingway, and it must have been written by bill ayers, a white man. that was a lie. but everything about him, they tried to attack and say that there is no way that this person that we may have kind of philosophical, political differences with, no way that this person could actually be as good as he appears to be. and that became the racist linchpin in this argument. >> but the trump campaign has tried the to deny over and over that this had anything to do -- that the birtherism had anything to do with racism, but what else could it be, because, essentially, he's asking for his papers. >> that's the thing about truth. it actually doesn't require your affirmation, it doesn't require your blessing, it doesn't require you to agree with it. it actually is the truth. and i don't need you to believe
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me when i tell you that you are saying something that is racist, because i understand that it is. and i understand enough about history, i understand enough about traditional stereotypes, i understand enough about human motivations to understand this has a racial underpinning. >> michael, to you first. even after the president produced his long-form birth certificate, which was an embarrassment for a lot of people, that, you know, they couldn't believe this was happening, donald trump continued with his birther theories. what does he get out of trying to de-legitimatize the first african-american president of the united states? >> well, i think what he's trying to get and what he has done throughout this campaign is to inject racism into it. to inject the issue of race. you don't have to say specifically, racist epithets to inject the issue of race. and that's what he did with the birther movement. and that's what he's done throughout his presidential campaign. if you remember, the first thing he did when he announced for
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president was to talk about buildi ing a wall, stopping mexicans from coming in because he said they were rapists and criminals. then talked about stopping muslims and when david duke announced support, an avowed racist, trump refused to reject that support. race has always underlined
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racist tendencies are calling people who talk about issues people need to be affirmed in their own belief system. they want to believe that what they're believing it right. >> you know when we get off the air, social media is going to say we're racist for something this conversation. >> and i will give two flips of a coin. >> exactly. >> because i don't care if i hurt your feelings because racism is a fact of life in america, there are a lot of racist people in america, people
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who understand they are racist, people who don't register they are racist, it's kind of subconscious for them and we're all acting out in this big gumbo of race and privilege and biases and all of that around us and that is just a fact. when it happens, it's just real. and just because i bring it up does not mean you're racist because you brought up the issue of race and therefore that makes you talking about race and the issue. this issue with donald trump is absolutely racist, no matter what they want to argue about, bringing it up and who start today and whatever. in fact there's no sign that hillary clinton was involved in starting this whatsoever. donald trump became the grand wizard of birtherism. that is simply a fact, and until he takes ownership of that, until he apologizes, like the professor said. and what do you with an apology, it's not necessarily you're doing it for the other person. that is a moral character issue. you're doing that because you're wrong and the moral character in you says that i have to do this because i was wrong and to set my own spirit right. if the other person accepts the apology, that's up to them. you need to do this because it is right to do. >> how do you think this is a -- you know, you mentioned he's
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called the president a muslim, he -- you know, he talked about what he said with his college records. this is how donald trump came to the floor, in looking through an interview in 2011, and it sounded exactly the same, and the birther movement. how do you think this is affecting the campaign now? do you think this will hurt him? >> i mean, it's to be seen. i never try to predict what's going to happen in the polls. i -- i don't know exactly how to ripple up, but i do believe that it brings up this issue in a way that some people have forgotten about. i had forgotten about how many different ways about the president and i went back and read over it. it kind of grossed me out. it was so much. it was so much. so deep in the sewer.
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and i think that just by bringing the subject up and having people having to go back through that again is going to hurt him some. i think they were going to get this issue behind him, but not sure again, who can predict anything in this particular election. members of the congressional black caucus, they really went after donald trump, harshly criticized him for his comments and lack of an apology and lack of sincerity about it. he thought he was ending the birther discussion today. is he in fact -- has he reignited the issue? >> i think he has reignited it, and certainly i think members of the congressional black caucus and many americans of all colors are not going to let this go. they're not going to let him simply say, okay, i say president obama was born in the u.s. and that's it, now let's move on. no, we're not going to move on because not only is an apology warranted, but this election is a battle for america's racial soul.
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trump has injected race into this and americans can't let this go. this election is crucial so when you start to look at not only the policies and practices that candidate trump is espousing, this is going to be really problematic to equality in our country. if some of these things trump wants to do become law and policy, it's going to have a very detrimental effect. america is not going to be the great melting pot. america is not going to be able to live up to you know the meaning of it -- of its creed that all are created equal if we don't get hillary clinton elected and if we don't make sure that we initiate new policies and practices that are going to guarantee equality for all americans. >> michael charles, thank you very much, gentlemen. i appreciate it. just ahead, what trump is saying about hillary clinton's security detail. the surface pro, comes with a pen
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