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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  September 20, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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what we know now about the suspect in this week's bomb attacks, this is cnn tonight,
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i'm don lemon. ahmad rahami charged with five counts of attempted murder. they believe he is the man behind bombings in new york city and new jersey. a handwritten note found with the unexploded pressure cooker bomb on 27th street, included references to the boston bomber. meanwhile, donald trump and hillary clinton go head-to-head on the campaign trail over who can keep americans safe. plus, barak obama lays it out in black and white, blasting trump's birther claims and pleading with african-americans to vote for clinton. >> i will consider it a personal insult, an insult to this community if this community lets down its guard and fails to activate itself in this election. you want to give me a good send off, go foet! >> there's a lot to get to in this broadcast so let's get the the latest on this weekend's
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bomb attack. drew griffin in new jersey where the suspect was captured. what is the latest on the investigation? >> reporter: the latest information we are getting is on the note that you discussed, don. it was a rambling note that was found in that unexploded pressure cooker on 27th street. the ramblings according to law enforcement officials talk about previous terror incidents, and particularly about the boston bombing incident which might we mind you and your viewers also involved pressure cookers. we know now that the suspect is in custody and has been charged with the shootout that took place behind me here in linden, new jersey. there is a sense they have the person responsible for the bombings. the question is did he have help, did anybody know about the bombs he was making or did anybody help in his radicalization and what were his thoughts. so i think that is where the investigation is heading right now. certainly the forensics here are
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ending but it is time to dig into the motivation and any kind of possible accomplices and/or people who had helped him assemble these bombs, don. >> so, drew, let's dig into that a little more. i want to know what you are learning about his trips overseas to both afghanistan and pakistan and what part that plays into this, if anything. >> reporter: yeah, that seems to be where a lot of the attention is focusing. he had extended trips to both afghanistan, which is his native country, where he was born, and also to pakistan. he took those trips, some of them with his brother. we also know at one point during one of those trips he married a pakist pakistani woman. we believe she is still in pakistan due to some issues. during these extended trips, they are definitely -- investigators are definitely trying to find out to whom he talked to. pakistan is like the home of taliban. he is traveling in areas of
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afghanistan that have many radical islamic groups that are circulating through that area. did he contact any of them, as some home-grown terrorists we have run into in the past have? they just don't know yet. each time he came back to the u.s., i should point out, he did go through secondary screening by homeland security and in a sense passed. they never put him on any kind of radar or any kind of warning signs. one things about one of his trips, in 2013 he took a trip with his brother to pakistan and they obviously were feeling some of the violence there. the brother, mohammed, posting on facebook, six bombs in quetta and said ahmad went to get ice cream and a bomb went off. so they were experiencing some of the violence over there in pakistan during at least one of these trips, don. >> drew griffin joining us this evening with the investigation. drew, thank you very much. i want to bring in anthony mayer, retired atf explosives
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investigator. julia kayyim, author of "security mom." buck, you first. you were close to the explosion in chelsea on saturday night. tell us what you saw and heard. >> well, you heard a boom immediately that was clearly explosive force. i wasn't close enough to it, two blocks away, i didn't hear car alarms or shattered glass, which would be hallmarks of what you can expect from the concussive force and from the shrapnel. i reached out to a friend of mine in law enforcement and said, look, i think there's a big issue here, you guys have to look into this, and obviously we are thankful nobody was killed. i know there were some injuries. yet again, here we have a situation where if it wasn't for sort of faulty either bomb making or bomb placement, depending on which device we are talking about, you would have had many more casualties.
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this reminds me of the attempted bomb attempt in 2010, and if he had done it differently a lot of people would have been killed there. >> anthony, by my count there were ten devices, two exploded and one detonated while being removed by a robot. what does it tell you about the bombs as well as his experience level? >> don, we have bombs that range a wide spectrum. we have on one end pipe bombs, kind of crude and rude men taker, on the other end pressure cookers. what ties these together are the firing system, the cellphone usage of it. but what really intrigues me is that you're right, ten devices. he carried these things around in duffle bags. it is not possible to build that many devices and go unnoticed by somebody. >> interesting. juliette, do you agree with that? >> absolutely.
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i've been hearing, anthony, all day, i'm not an atf expert, but i had the same thought looking at it just from the perspective of how difficult it is to make these things, go undetected, place them in different areas. i will say the one thing that sort of, you know, is it luck or sort of the ignorance of the terrorist or whatever, but we are also benefitting from the fact he put them, most of them in containers that really did sort of keep the worst parts of the bomb materials away from the public, which just makes you wonder did he not know that, you know, that metal and aluminum would do that. i think that just goes to the radicalization process. these guys are become radicalized rather quickly and their training and sophistication probably lags behind that. >> maybe he was trying to get time behind him, maybe trying to avoid the see something, say
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something, which seems to have worked in two instances here. do you think that's correct, anthony? >> well, now, the placement -- his target selection, i mean the marine corps run, you're going to hide it along that route, certainly a trash receptacle is a good spot to do that. however, in the chelsea bombing, putting it in or near or under that dumpster, that kind of mitigated a lot of his blast. so, yeah, you want to hide it certainly, but had that device been placed out in the open there may have been more damage and actually some fatalities involved. >> that's what buck was alluding to earlier. juliette, you know, rahami was found relatively close to his home, sleeping in a doorway. it seems like he had no exit strategy. does that surprise you? >> it doesn't surprise me. as i noted earlier, this was true of the boston marathon bombers, highly sophisticated planning, you know, different
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sites they had coordinated. they knew what they were doing, and then, you know, what did they think was going to happen after that? they seemed to not have -- go back to normal life as if there's no pictures, as if there's no surveillance, as if there's not police departments looking for them. this seems true in this case. he is close to home, hiding out, sleeping somewhere. i just -- once again, this goes to the sophistication level. this is not to minimize the threat these guys have, it is just this is -- you know, these are people are being radicalized very quickly online, but their training, their sense of what do we do next, they're just not thinking it out. so, once again, we catch them close to home. >> let's talk about that, buck. again, you know, he was found sleeping in the doorway of his business. the same question, no exit strategy here. what did he think was going to happen after these, you know, if they went off and they had, you know, god forbid, killed multiple people? what did he think was going to happen after that? how was he going to get away? >> he had to know that this was going to end in a hail of gun
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fire. i think he probably figured that he wouldn't survive that exchange. as we know, there was a shootout, and police were able to -- >> is that the strategy, suicide by cop, or is it a strategy to get as far away as possible? >> i think when you're falling asleep in the doorway of a bar out in the open when everybody in the tri-state area is looking for you and people are getting messages into well sort of the early hours on their phones saying, be on the look out. this was a emergency across multiple jurisdictions and literally everybody was looking for this guy. i think he realized he was going to get caught. he was probably exhausted after planting these bombs, and law enforcement did good work and were able to take him into custody. on the point about the speed of the rad kagization, think it is interesting as we find out more about his time in afghanistan whether he received actual training and instruction or not.
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na naji bal zazi, both had drek out site contact and were working at behest of an organization. this guy seems motorcycle like he might have been radicalized by being around them, but more self-taught. they're sort of similar what you are taught to build in the "inspire" magazine article, how to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom. >> thank you, buck, thank you anthony and juliette. when we come back, the politics of terror. which candidate is equipped to keep americans safe? >> he is unqualified to be president. >> hillary clinton lacks the judgment. >> the scams, the fraud. >> hj has evaded justice. >> he clearly has something to hide. >> her conduct is disqualifying. if you have medicare
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go long.
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bombing suspect rahami facing a slew of charges including five counts of attempted murder. hillary clinton and donald trump using the attacks to take pot shots at each other on the campaign trail. here to discuss angela rye, former executive director of the black caucus. political commentator.
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bruce la vel and bakari sellers, a clinton supporter. thank you for coming on. john, you first. hillary clinton is slamming trump's response to the bombings, callis his rhetoric reckless, listen. >> it is like so much else he says, not grounded in fact, meant to make some kind of demagogueic point. the facts are clear. we still have challenges. that's what i have been talking about throughout this campaign. i am prepared to, ready to actually take on those challenges, not engage in a lot of, you know, irresponsible, reckless rhetoric but to do the hard work, as i have done before. >> so hillary clinton is positioning herself as the one who is better prepared to handle the war on terror, saying she has the experience. what do you make of her response, john? >> well, i think she is part of the problem. i think she highlighted that in her response. she said we need increased
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surveillance, we need help from silicon valley to help us keep an eye on americans, and we need to stress the point of see something, say something. well, this culture of political correctness we live in, in part thanks to hillary clinton and the obama administration, prevents people from being honest. if you go back to clock boy when all of that was going on in the state of texas and those teachers saw something they thought was suspicious, they dropped a dime and were roundly criticized as bigots. you go to what happened in san bernardino and had neighbors who saw suspicious activity and they were afraid of saying something because they didn't want to be branded bigots. now we learn more information about this guy in new jersey, we learn that the mother of his child knew the guy was a radical, he hated gays, traveled to pakistan, he traveled to afghanistan, he came back with radical believes. friends that went to school said the same thing, yet nobody notified the authorities or put him on a watch list. they were afraid. >> angela, you seemed to take
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offense. what do you think? >> well, i was taking offense to the term clock boy. i'm interested to see what john thinks happened there. i think the bigger issue here is what donald trump's response was today, which was to encourage profiling. profiling that has been debunked through research. i know that trump team is allergic to actual facts and research and data, but research demonstrates profiling actually does not -- is not an effective tool against terrorism. if you look at the fact that rahami's family was targeted by harassment, discrimination and all that is listed in their lawsuit, it is very, very clear that it actually -- it actually has the opposite effect. >> the lawsuit was thrown out. >> let's listen to donald trump since you mentioned it. here he is talking about profiling. >> sure. >> our local police, they know who a lot of these people are. they're afraid to do anything about it because they don't want to be accused of profiling, and they don't want to be accused of all sorts of things. you know, in israel they
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profile. they've done an unbelievable job, as good as you can do. but israel has done an unbelievable job and they profile. they see somebody that's suspicious, they will profile, they will take that person in to check out. do we have a choice? look what is going on. do we really have a choice? we are trying to be so politically correct in our country, and it is only going to get worse. >> his question is do we have a choice? are we so politically correct we don't have a choice, angela? continuing on. >> what trump is talking about in israel is done at airports so this wouldn't have prevented these particular attacks, or potential attacks, from happening whatsoever. he's talking about racial and religious litmus tests and bias in trying to profile on those particular issues. that's not what israeli profiling does. it is a totally different type of profiling. >> john, you want to respond to that? >> yeah. the bomber's lawsuit was thrown out. they sued the city, they said that they were harassed.
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it was thrown out with prejudice, meaning that the judge thought there was zero merits to their case. >> you miss the point. >> the guy made it up. >> but you missed the point. >> no, that is the point. >> that wasn't my point. maybe that's your point, but my point was that the types of harassment that donald trump is suggesting, racial profiling, the type of profiling donald trump is suggesting, religious profiling, the type of profiling your candidate suggests has the opposite effect. it does not combat terrorism. there is rehe search that demonstrates that, and i know you all are not aware but those are the facts. >> other people on the panel want to get in. bruce, to you. trump also spoke about using an ideology to vet people coming into the country. how is that going to play with voters? >> i'm glad everyone came out okay and kudos to responders the other night. don, when you look at fort hood, san bernardino county, you look at orlando, you look at boston,
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you look at new york, and god forbid what else is going to happen, my god, what is next? you know, this has been going on with the clinton/obama administration since they've been in office, from 2009 to 2008 we didn't have this, from 2001 to 2008. something has to change. this is really serious. >> bakari? >> i think a lot of people try to ignore the fact that we have isis, the fact that we have this vacuum in the middle east is because of the bush administration. that's first. >> well, because we pulled out, bakari. >> second, and even more importantly, getting to the heart of what donald trump is saying, donald trump is either saying one of two things. one, it is anti-american saying we want to profile, we want to have these religion litmus tests, something we cannot even ensure will work. we know in new york we've had nypd officers who sat down in starbuck's, in these coffee shops, in these muslim communities and they bear no fruit. we know that. we know, number two, donald
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trump's plan to combat isis is a secret plan. as hillary clinton said today, we all know the secret is he has no plan. one thing hillary clinton has to do, and do it next monday, is americans are tlirsing for a bit more. not only do she have to talk about successes under the obama administration, but she has to talk about the things she will do that add on to that and bring more safety, security and at least people feel as if they're safer in the country. >> i want everybody to stand by. when we come back we're going to discuss donald trump jr.'s tweet about skittless and refugees and what the two have to do with each other. we will be right back.
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back with me now, angela rye, bruce levell and bakari sellers. i want everyone's reaction to this tweet from donald trump jr. he sent it out tonight and said, if i had a bowl of skittles and i told you just three would kill you, would you take a handful? that's our syrian refugee crisis. he said, let's end the politically correct agenda that doesn't put america first. first to you, bakari. what is your reaction comparing the refugee crisis to a bowl of
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skittles? >> i think it is the definition of ig nornlt. i think he has proven himself to be one of the least informed surrogates donald trump has. i think whether or not it is his gas chamber comment drawing those images of the holocaust and coming back and saying it was some relation to the death penalty, and we know that the gas chamber hasn't been used since 1999 and it is very rarely used. just today, do skittles go through the 24-month vetting process? the fact he was able to view these people, many of which -- over half of which are children coming to this country, as some skittles, i just think donald trump jr. has proven himself to be very ignorant. >> i want everybody's reaction. i don't mean to cut you off. but looking at research that said the chance an american would be killed by a terrorist attack committed by a refugee was 1 in 3.64 billion a year. what is your response, bruce? >> don, i'm still really worried
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and concerned about islamic terrorism we have going in our country. who knows what will happen? on the news today they said, well, we're not sure if he is alone, if there's anymore or anything else is going to take place. i think it is very critical, especially on both sides of the parties, to put aside all of the other personal he said, she said. guys, this is a critical state that the u.s. is in with terror. >> was he -- was he a refugee? >> he wasn't a refugee. >> or were there attackers on 9/11 refugees? >> look, like i'm saying -- >> the answer is no. >> to look through a tweet about skittles when i'm sitting here telling you and the american people this is very serious stuff we are talking about. >> that came from your campaign. >> whoa, whoa, excuse me. from a middle east destabilized through the democrat administration. >> when did 9/11 happen? >> when you pulled out -- >> when did the war happen? >> when the generals told barak obama do not pull out and they
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pulled out, we created isis and a very unstable middle east, sir. >> this has all been debunked. >> we never had a terror attack from 2000 to 2008. we have five that we can count, and god knows. >> bruce. >> from 2010 -- >> let me clarify this. september 11th, 2001 happened in the united states of america, #neverforget. >> i was old enough. i'm in my 50s, you were probably in middle school or high school, i had friends who died in the tower. >> everybody remembers from 2000 to 2008, you are wrong. furthermore, that tweet came out of your campaign. so how you just told me, whoa, whoa, whoa. let me tell you, trump's logo is at the bottom of the tweet. let me one up you, bruce. it is not even original material. your campaign got it from joe walsh. so it is wrong, it is foul. it is not about politically
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correct. it is bigoted, ignorant, dumb. >> there you go. >> and those are things -- here we go is right because you all continue to push out this nonsense. >> when you run out of real substance to talk about, angela, we always have to bring up other deals. >> you're nuts, that's not true. >> okay, everybody. john, can you get in, please? i want your response. >> look, my objection with tweet is i wouldn't narrow it down to refugees. i would say we don't have a background check system that works, period. we have seen it fail time and time again. we saw it fail with this family. by the way, the bomber isn't the only one who has trouble with the law. he has a brother that's on the run in another country right now. we saw it break down and fail with the san bernardino shooter. we allowed her to move here clearly after she was radicalized and posting things on social media. we alieued the iraqi refugees in kentucky to come here where the background system failed. the 9/11 highjackers came here initially legally. >> let me add briefly, you need
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to add the fact that the background system failed with dill ar roof as well. we will talk about a comprehensive reform of the background system, the fbi, the cia, all of the three-letter words. let's make sure we are -- >> dylan roof immigrated here? >> he was a home grown. >> he was not an immigrant. >> hang on. >> he was a home-grown terrorist like the guy today. >> i'm talking about a background check for immigrants. >> because you don't want one -- >> i want to ask you quickly, john, how would it have changed anything today? would there have to be a retroactive sort of checking that goes on over and over again once people have been here for more than 20 years? >> because he was he eight when he got here. >> look, i would start with people who are coming now. you have to have a system. if we don't have a system that works i wouldn't take people from countries that have problems with terrorists. >> understood. bruce, what did you want to say? >> i'm just -- this is just absolutely done, guys.
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it is like i said before, we are in this situation -- everything that we're debating or talking about as relates to enforeseen tragedies we've had, bombings between 2008 until now is under the obama and clinton administration. it is time for a change. president obama when he was at the cdc said, my legacy and you gu guys need to get out and vote. >> thank you for the transition. let's play that and discuss. here he is. >> okay. >> i will consider it a personal insult, an insult to my legacy if this community lets down its guard and fails to activate itself in this election! you want to give me a good send off? go vote! >> bruce, you're actively working to make sure hillary clinton doesn't end up in the white house. you brought it up. what is your reaction to what the president said? >> and bakari is working actively on the other side. this is the deal. president obama said my leg as
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owe, nothing about the american people, it is all about me. let me tell you something, who wants to -- excuse me. who wants to take another legacy over with a nation's debt that went from 10 trillion to 19.5 trillion? who wants to take a legacy where we had -- i counted five bombings and god know how many more we will have since 2008, 2016? who wants that legacy? we would have to be crazy to want to do that, and not to mention the unstablization of libya, unstablization of iraq, when the general also said -- excuse me. said, do not pull these troops out. look what it created. >> let someone respond. >> we have isis. >> let someone respond. >> who wants that legacy? >> you are taking it out of context. >> no. >> i think first to blame barak obama of the terrorist attacks of the weekend -- >> no, i said they were a team. >> but to blame barak obama or hillary clinton for the terrorist attacks of the past weekend is patently -- it makes no sense. it is ill logical, that is
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first. more importantly, if you want to talk about the president's legacy, you could talk about the incomes of african-americans, asian americans, white americans, all have grown. >> 2,000 less in median households. >> have all grown. we had the largest growth of middle class since 1999. these are facts. we have withdrawn troops and brought them home. if you want to talk about facts, bruce, you want to talk about the iraq troop withdrawal, you know who also supported that? donald trump did. so you want to talk about -- >> no. >> you want to blame somebody for something, but your candidate flip lops himself like a mullet on the dock. >> i have to go. bruce, i will give you a chance to respond. >> look, at the end of the day it is time for a real change. you had the change, now it is time for a real change, a staff change. that's donald j. trump. >> good luck with that, bruce. >> thank you, guys. i appreciate it. when we come back, the latest on the investigation of the bombings in new york and new jersey this weekend, why the suspect traveled to afghanistan
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and pakistan, plus the mistake that allowed hundreds of immigrants to stay in this country. kig dill
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. hundreds of immigrants given u.s. citizen by mistake. where are they and what's the government doing about it? cnn's tom information informationman has more? >> hey. in one explosive line lays out a break down. it says the united states citizenship and immigration services granted u.s. citizenship to at least 858 individuals ordered deported or removed. on the campaign trail, immediate reaction. >> another 858 immigrants from dangerous countries have slipped into our country and have been granted full citizenship despite pending deportation orders. these are people that were supposed to be deported and they were given full citizenship. they made a mistake. >> how did it happen? investigators found hundreds of people who were supposed to be deported under their real names simply came up with other names and new birth dates, side
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stepping the removal orders. the key weakness, old paper fingerprint records that have not been made digital and were not readily available to immigration officials. homeland security notes not everyone who slipped through the net this way represents any potential security threat. still, there are worrisome details. the report found three of these people received credentials which since have been revoked to work in secure areas of transportation, two in commercial a commercial airports one in shipping ports. another is a law enforcement official. as citizens these folks have a lot of rights including, quote, sponsoring other aliens' entry into the united states. why don't federal officials track them all down and deport them now? investigators note once someone gets citizenship authorities must essentially prove fraud was involved, not just an honest mistake. that means resources, courts and time. homeland security says it is
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trying to implement improvements to this system suggested by the report, but it is a big job. investigators found 148,000 other old fingerprints have yet to be processed in such a way as to stop this from happening again. don. >> tom, thank you very much. i appreciate that. here to discuss now mia bloom, professor at georgia state university. michael weiss is here, coauthor is here, inside the army of terror. and a former jihadist and undercover jihadi. let's have this conversation. you heard the conversation about whether or not they are properly vetted. when you hear stories, it is hard to make the case. is it? >> i think it depends on what period of time the names and fingerprints were lost. certainly in the last five years especially, the vetting process other than for fiances is very extensive. i remember when i had to go through it. you have to show up, you have to have your fingerprints, a retina
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scan. there's a lot of biometric data they take, background checks. i find it hard to believe, this skittles example, it is not three out of a handful of skittles. the fact is we have a long history, problematic history with refugees. i think that's what we should be focused on. >> is it tough enough for someone -- you are not hiding anything, but is it tough enough for someone that may be hiding anything? do you think we could have stronger vetting? >> i think there are certain categories we need to vet a little bit better, and these would have to do with people who are related, who have existing family members in the u.s. or for the fiance visas. but i think for most of the visas, you know, there's a process that begins before they can even get on the plane. >> okay. thank you for responding that. i want to move on to talk about the pressing story which comes to the attacks here in new york city and new jersey. we are learning more about this suspect, ahmad rahami.
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naturalized u.s. citizen born in afghanistan. can you tell us about his family background? no. we're still learning. the family had a restaurant, they filed a discrimination lawsuit against the city in new jersey, claiming the city was targeting them for shutting down their restaurant at 10:00 p.m. because it was open 24 hours, it was too noisy and this was essentially anti-muslim discrimination. he traveled to afghanistan and pakistan, and the question remains, and it is the one everyone is asking, was he recruited or radicalized abroad. eyewitness essay he came back and was acting strange, but we don't know enough yet. i think it is clearly an act of terrorism. the question is, is this a case of remote rad skalization or is it a case of somebody being run or directed from abroad. >> let's talk about this. those who went to school with rahami, as we talked about so many times, people who knew him, they say he was completely
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americanized. they would never have suspected him, sort of like the tsarnaev brothers. how did this take place? >> it is rare a person is going to show the kinds of signs your average viewer this person is going to become a violent extremists. even professionals who study this stuf day in and day out can't tell you that. intelligence agencies following people literally right now as we speak can't tell you which of the ten are going to actually go from talk to action. >> so you, having been radicalized once, would you be able to tell? would you even know? >> you know, for me it was a sudden change in religion appearance. i was 19 and, ironically, it was to kuwait that i had also gone in 1995, that when the taliban first came to power. it was to quetta that i had gone. i changed my clothes, grew a beard, started to wear robes, a
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black turbine. does it mean i was morning towards violent action? no necessarily. you usually have to add an aggravating factor like a malevolent ideology usually. but, again, seeing somebody start to grow his beard and pray, it is not going to lead you to the next terrorist. >> it sounds like what they're talking about where is the line when it comes to profiling, right? but listening to what you said, he went on vacation several times to afghanistan in 2013, to pakistan in 2013, especially to quetta, sudden that raise flags? >> i think if it is quetta it is likely the influence is coming from al qaeda rather than isis. having done field research in this region, isis barely has a footprint. one of the things we are seeing with isis online and in chat rooms, they are posting al qaeda ideology, sermons by ben laude en, even omar hamami.
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the impression you get, they don't care how you get to isis, they are casting a really wide net. so whatever your flavor is, if it is al qaeda, if it is aqap, we don't care how you get here, we just want you on the pack. they're trying to capture as many people as possible, so even people al qaeda brought in. >> let me ask you more specific to the question i asked, having gone to quetta, having visited afghanistan and specifically quetta in pakistan, the robes, the beard, what have you, you know, as movine said, is there anything that stood out to you for this particular person you think people should have known? >> it is hard to know. when he talked about the fact every time he game through immigration he was given secondary orange or green, you start to feel like you're being picked on. you start to feel like your family is being targeted because the rules don't apply to them as they apply to other restaurants in the neighborhood. if they start to feel they're
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being targeted, that might just start you on the path of anger. but what we know for sure is that becoming more religious does not mean you're becoming more radical. in fact, the studies that have been done in the u.k. show the more information and knowledge you have about islam, the less likely you are to be radicalized because people can't distort the text, they can't tell you, oh, yes, mow h yes, mohammed said this because you can say, no, he did not. >> i have to get a break in. we'll continue.
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29 people injured in the bombing in new york over the weaken. clearly the bomber planned an even worse attack. back with me mia bloom, michael weiss and mubine sheik. we were talking about the signs of becoming radicalized, because someone grows a beard, it is not -- >> yeah, there's so many tipologies of why people -- by the way, you don't even have to be muslim or necessarily islamically oriented to want to become a terrorist. i interviewed isis fighters who say, we did this because of geo political reasons, we hate the u.s., we think the u.s. is backing maliki.
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it is difficult. the signs of radicalization, as mia was saying, anwar awlaki videos, this was the claireic w cleric who was droned several years ago, isis people who have undergone several stages of islamization. he was fliting with the muslim brotherhood in early 1990s, then went through several stages, progressively moving to a more extremist direction until he became a member of al qaeda in iraq. >> but what happens now is because of the internet, people are becoming radicalized faster and quicker. you know, i hear from experts, it used to be you would have to travel, to get information, to be surrounded by these people. because of the internet and everything is open, it happens more quickly. >> keep in mind, you have to be seeking. it is like you go to buy shoes on zappo a's and you end up in a
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chap root. if you are looking for more information, you are already on the path. >> are you influenced by the people around you or by your circumstances? because the father of the suspect told msnbc he had no idea his son was planning this. we always think of the immediate family. if you look at what happened in orlando, the dad will tell you, i had no idea. people say, i had no idea. how is that possible? >> it depends. the so-called underpants bomber that tried to blow up an airliner in the skies of detroit, he was the son of a nigeran minister, was attending college in london. i was in london shortly slaf and i attended to see if he was radicalized on campus. he was posting things to facebook glorifying and celebrating the 9/11 attacks. his father dropped a bomb on his own kid and said, my kid is becoming a terrorist and you university people have to do something about this and they
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ignored it. also, all of the tell-tale signs. >> i have to ask you because the dad said i had no idea. most people would say, how could you not know? is this something that is easily kept from family members and friends and people who are close to you? >> yeah, of course. i mean if you're determined to do something, you know, either you're going to blab about it or you're not going to blab about it. if you are going to blab about it, who are you going to blab about it to? it is probably not going to be your parents. probably your peers, your friends, your associates that are -- and you might even tell yourselves, don't tell anybody, keep this really tight. so, you know, it is very difficult. sometimes you do see the signs and parents are sharp enough to know that something is wrong, but they don't know exactly what, you know, what my kid is watching jihadi videos, i should call the fbi on him? is the fbi going to kick down my door and haul my kid out? is that going to be the best deal for him?
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sometimes parents are reluctant to do that. in the case in virginia, 17-year-old kid, you know, his parents did that. they sent him to and i maum, he went to muslim day camp, didn't work out for him. talking about radicalization online. for some of these guys, it is not the case here but they become -- they want to become a hero. you know, zero to hero overnight. in talking about do you need to be around people, you can go online to meet people, you can skype with people, do it all online. it is so fast, the content is so voluminous it is easy to get done. this seems it wasn't really online, it was in person. >> yeah. we're always talking about, michael, about what went wrong, but how quickly this came to a head, where they found this guy, people who did see something and say something. matter of fact, people who did turn him in. this was -- what went right here? >> a muslim immigrant dropped a dime and said, i noticed this guy in the media and it looks
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like the suspect you all are looking for. that's not uncharacteristic, it has happened before, the times square bomber was caught that way. in this case, look -- >> does this negate everyone saying people are too politically correct to say stuff? >> look, it is a campaign season, people want to score points and vilify and make these ideological statements about the nature of terrorism. i have to tell you, we sit here for a living, all three of us up here do, it is a complex phenomenon. no single driver to it. >> we'll leave it right here. see you back here tomorrow. i'm only in my 60's. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses.
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breaking overnight. new clues linking a suspect to the series of bombings in new jersey and new york. could the charges be upgraded? cnn's live team coverage starts right now. good morning. welcome to "early start." i'm christine romans. >> i'm john berman. nice to see you. it is tuesday, september 20th. 4:00 a.m. in the east. we have new information on the man who planted bombs in four locations in two states over two days. 28-year-old

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