tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN September 25, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT
this is "gps," the global public square, and welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. on the week that the world's leaders came to the u.n., we have a very important show for you. two heads of state with important stories to tell. first, the president of ukraine on donald trump's contention that russia is not really in ukraine. >> he not going to go into ukraine. >> and on dealing with vladimir putin. petro poroshenko gives us his views. >> if you reach any agreements with putin now, it means nothing. >> and then aung san suu kyi, the dissident who spent 15 years
under house arrest only to become the leader of her nation. does she think that she is the mandela of asia? what to make of the accounts of massive human rights abuses in a country led by a nobel peace prize winner. and understanding the new york city bomber, and what radicalized this american citizen? we know who it was, a preacher, but he has been dead for years. i'll explain. finally, how many skittles or refugees would you have to go through before you got to a bad one? we'll tell you. but first, here's my take. it is the annual gathering of world leaders in new york this week, and for most of them, it is time for group therapy. around the globe leaders of all stripes seem afflicted with the same malady, low approval ratings. morgan stanley's richard sharma has pointed out that the leaders
or the emerging economies popularity has dropped by 17 points over the last decade. well, as i argue in a forthcoming foreign affairs ess essay, today's western countries face four structural challenges -- demography, globalization, automation, and increasing debt burdens. the demographic challenge might be the most fundamental. in almost every advanced economy, fertility has dropped sharply from japan to south korea, germany to italy. globalization and the information revolution while positive overall concentrate the costs on skilled and semi-skilled workers particularly in the basic manufacturing industries that once provided large numbers of stable high-paying jobs. as a response to the global financial crisis, governments everywhere have taken on huge debts. and aging population means that spending on the elderly is crowding out investments for
growth, infrastructure, science and technology. so facing all these forces, leaders have no easy path to restore economic growth and revive their countries. deep radical reforms are always unpopular, and in this climate, they don't seem to lead to growth. ireland and portugal and mexico have enacted broad radical reforms, and yet growth has not boom in those countries. japan has spent hundreds of billions on stimulus plan, and yet, it is muddling along. so even the leaders who come to office with very strong public approval and much promise find themselves strapped by the same forces. quickly, their approval ratings are beginning to drop and new populist anger grows. italy's prime minister has seen his numbers fall to below 30%. the populous and very popular greek leader alexis tsipras is down to 19%.
now in the u.n. speech president obama outlined many solutions to the problems of growth and inequality. he explained how the united states has focussed the reform and recovery efforts on helping the middle-class to gain better access to jobs, health care, training and retraining and housing. he argued that furthering these efforts with new investments in child care, infrastructure and basic research would keep this going. but the policy solutions that he put forth, and the ones that other countries are adopting are all small bore, specific and incremental. meanwhile, the populists promise dramatic solutions that are much more satisfying. after all, americans tell americans that their lives are hard and there is a simple reason for it, foreigners. they steal american jobs, burden america's welfare state, and
make americans less safe. his solution is to get tough on them. it's not hard to understand the appeal of simplicity in a complex world. there is little drama in plans to expand early childhood education, and yet they work. the persistent and the energetic efforts of reform do pay off. a recent census bureau report shows that the biggest one-year drop in poverty in america in almost 50 years. it highlights that the efforts in the united states are working. to america's north, canada is handling a slowdown in growth welcoming in thousands of refugees and celebrating diversity, and the two major leaders in the western world with the highest approval ratings today are barack obama and justin trudeau. the center can hold. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. let's get started.
♪ if there is a foreign leader who has dominated the 2016 presidential campaign, it is without question vladimir putin. he is at the heart of the debate in syria that heated up this week, and of course, donald trump has praised putin repeatedly and taken much heat from hillary clinton for doing so. well, i had the opportunity to sit down with one of his main adversaries, the president of ukraine petro poroshenko. i asked poroshenko about the rumors that trump had refused to meet with him about trump's questionable claims of ukraine, and about putin as an adversary, a man he has negotiated with for many, many years. >> mr. president, pleasure to have you on. >> pleasure for me, too. thank you for the invitation. >> you met with hillary clinton, and what was your impression of
her? >> i know her for maybe 16 years. we have quite an intensive dialogue when i was minister of foreign affairs and we launched together the strategic cooperation commission between ukraine and the united states, and i can confirm that she's very well informed and deeply ready for the development of the situation in ukraine. and i with you pleasantly surprised on that. >> you met with vice president biden? >> yes. >> was one more person you wanted to meet while in new york, donald trump. why do you think he refused to meet with you? >> first of all, that is not true, there was no refusal. it was a protocol matter, and as
far as i understand that the schedule was so stressed that we should find out the reason of that. >> and we were told that your office approached the trump campaign, and you never heard back from them? >> well, we demonstrated that we were ready to meet and we don't have -- they have a dialogue, but they don't find the place in the schedule that's acceptable to both of us. because i can inform them in the last two and a half days, i meet with the 22 head of states and the prime minister. >> do you think that he is avoiding you? >> i don't think so. >> and let me ask you, trump has said a few things that have taken some people, and many experts by surprise. he said at one point that russia ist not in ukraine, and then he said that it is there, but in a certain way. now, in a sense, this is what the russians are often saying that they are actually not in eastern ukraine, and those are not russian soldiers in eastern ukraine, but those are, maybe
russian citizens, but they are volunteering, and that this is not a planned act. explain to us, whether you have proof that the people who are in eastern ukraine are russian soldiers directed by the russian military. >> i hate the idea to have just a common phrase. i want to give you some absolutely practical examples. for example in the august 2014, we take 22 russian paratroopers take them to prison, demonstrate them to the whole world. receiving a number of their parents there to the ask me as a pardon right to give him back. in that situation, russia do not command how they appeared in ukraine. and they said that at the end of the day, when they have their tanks, their military i.d., their forms, they said, okay, they lost their ways -- >> lost in ukraine.
>> yes, lost in ukraine, yet 72 kilometers inside my territory, killi killing ukrainians, killing ukraine soldiers, and providing an offensive operation, and this is the only way to use it aggression, and we have lots of media and their testimony in the court when they recognized that. in the year 2015, we have many cases, and just to finish, to give you the figures currently on only occupied territory on the east of my country, we have more than 700 russian tanks. more than 1,250 artillery system. more than 1,000 armed personal carrier. more than 300 multi rocket launch system, and this is the huge army. more than 50% of the number of armies in the european union and this is huge army supplied by
russia and in key occupied territory, attacking ukraine. next on "gps" lots of people have opinions about vladimir putin. some love him, some hate him. but very few know his tactics as petro poroshenko who has known him as a businessman and since the russian invasion of ukraine two years ago. i will ask petro poroshenko what kind of leader vladimir putin is. ♪ music for your retirement, you wanted to celebrate the little things, before they get too big. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars.
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vladimir putin? listen in. another thing that mr. trump has said that i assume worries you is that he has talked about how he would look into whether or not to accept the russian annexation of crimea. does that worry you? >> look, first of all, i think that is the method for the american people, and this is the not only privilege to be american and to vote for the next president, but also, if you will allow me the big responsibility. because you elect the president of the country who will be the global leader, and this global leader is vitally important not only for the united states, but to keep freedom, and keep democracy, and to keep failures in the very difficult world situation that we have now. if you allow me, i can command
that this is the part of the election rhetoric, and i believe that after the election, no matter who is going to be elected they will be a great responsible leader of the american nation. >> reporter: who has recognized the annexation of crimea from russia? >> well, it is very few. mostly, it is the cuba and venezuela history, and i think that it is a very self-explained. no, sorry, i double-check. cuba is not official. cuba is moving a little bit back from putin's style of democracy. >> a lot of people think putin is a strong leader. and you have actually dealt with him in certain circumstances,
and you were a big businessman and you have a big factory in russia, and you have dealt with him as the leader of ukraine, and is putin a strong leader? >> look, putin when i have an opportunity to speak with him, ten years ago, pitten in year 2014, 2016, completely different person. if you reach any agreement with putin now, it doesn't mean nothing. >> why? >> because he does not keep his word. and this is not the characteristic of a strong leader if i may be straight forward, because strong leader means responsibility. strong leader means the bright perspective of the country. strong leader means to keep the words. and with that situation, strong the leader is the ability to provide reform and make life of
your people better. and with that understanding of the strong leader, i wish putin to become a strong leader. >> reporter: and has he lied the you personally? >> sometimes he does not keep his word that strong. >> reporter: one peculiar thing that happened in the united states with policy toward ukraine which is in the republican national convention, there were planks in the platform and you are well aware of this that called for the lethal aid provided for ukraine and then taken out. a lot of people wondered whether paul manafort who was then the chairman of trump's campaign had something to do with this? and the ukrainian investigators said that the former pro rush
president who was ousted by providing cash payments to mr. manafo manafort. can you confirm that? >> look, in the ukrainian national anti-corruption bureau was evidence of the possible participation of the paul manafort in this type of a operation. i hate that he had any commands, because we are a democratic civilized country, and that is a part of the investigation, but i can confirm that the investigation now is going on, and without any political interference neither from president nor from the government. i want to confirm that we are open to cooperation with any americans, partners, law enforcement agency to -- >> who want to see the evidence, and who want to have the cooperation. >> you have spoken of russia as the hybrid war and the russia's way of affecting the internal
politics of ukraine, other european countries, financing of elections, cyberwarfare. do you think it's possible that russia is trying to do something similar in the united states? >> i think that russia tried to do it in all of the centers of influence. they are quite active in the united states. if you see what's going on in certain european capitals, and i said about ukraine, so this is financing all the -- russia financing all the euro skeptic unions. the danger for russia is european unity, and all of the skeptics will receive a strong support, and not necessarily financial from the russian federation. and if you know now the number of people who is listening and viewing this state-sponsored russia today television in the
united states, that would be quite a big number of people, and this is in every cable network. i think this is not dangerous for the united states, because the united states has a very strong injection against this hybrid war. but in europe or in ukraine, the russian-sponsored mass media, social network, political parties, the main purpose is just to destabilize the situation, to the ruin the unity and to move the situation back on the bilateral nation with russia. in that situation when i was asked what we need the most from leaders of european union and member states and the united states, my answer is very simple. not money.
money is yes, but it is not the first priority. not assistance of the reform. yes, but not on the first priority. and even not the lethal weapon, because we can defend our country by ourselves. first of all, we need unity, european unity and transatlantic unity and solidarity with ukraine. >> reporter: mr. president, pleasure to have you on. >> my pleasure. thank you. up next, what radicalized the american bred bombing suspect causing him to wreak havoc in new york and new jersey last weekend? turns out that his inspiration may have come from beyond the grave. i will explain when we come back. hey, hey, hey, there are no bad suggestions here... no matter how lame they are. well said, ann. i've always admired how you just say what's in your head, without thinking. very brave. good point ted. you're living proof that looks aren't everything. thank you. welcome. so, fedex helped simplify our e-commerce business and this is not a passive aggressive environment.
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while some early clues to his road in radicalization may be in his own musings. he was carrying a notebook where he praised the american-born cleric anwar al awlaki. he revolutionized the world of terror. once a moderate, he quickly became one of the most prominent speakers with such vast appeal that his sermons were sold in box sets. his messages were a calling card for terrorists there. was the underwear bomber who tried to blow up a plane, and did just that on christmas day 2009. and omar mateen who was inspired by him, and then committed the deadliest shooting in american history at an orlando nightclub. and cnn security analyst peter bergen reports from his think tank that since 9/11, awlaki's
sermons have appeared in 99% of the terrorists cases. he died five years ago in a drone strike, and he was reportedly the first american citizen since the civil war to be executed on the orders of a president and without a trial. that turned al awlaki into a martyr in some eyes. and while the messenger is dead, the message ist not. "new york times" journalist, scott shane, argues that there is one pivotal stop in his radicalization -- >> there are pawns in the games of politics. >> that was the unintended consequence of being under constant surveillance by the u.s. government. because two of the 9/11 hijackers had prayed at his mosque, the fbi watched him for months. the bureau did not find any evidence that he was directly involved in those brutal attacks, but still the fbi did
discover a damning secret. awlaki, the married man and father of three was visiting prostitutes in washington hotels. scott shane reveals that is the real reason that al awlaki fled the u.s. in 2002 and ultimately ended up in yemen where he ended up in prison and eventually joined the ranks of al qaeda. now, he was not the only one included in the blood-soaked journal. the new jersey and new york bombing suspect also mentioned the boston marathon bombers. the tsarnaev brothers who not particularly religious. cnn's peter bergen points out that tamerlan was a nonpractice ing muslim and unemployed, but
one who only became radicalized when he lost his dream of becoming a boxer. the younger brother was more interested in marijuana and alcohol and women, and why do so many of the immigrants respond then to the rhetoric of anwar al awlaki? i am told that the lure is to tap into what is not only inherent muslim about american muslims, but what is inherently muslim about american muslims, but what is inherently american about them. al awlaki appeals to immigrant americans who are more politically conscious, feel marginalized and searching for the sense of purpose. he says that the message represents, you who live in the land of the free, you are responsible for the actions of your government and the ways in which the actions oppress and murder your fellow muslims around the world. you have to do something about that, he says. what's why his rants used perfect english in his sermons. the appeal is not religious, but political. the influence is less than being deeply islamic, and more in the style and substance fully
american. next on "gps" -- my exclusive interview with the leader of myanmar, the nobel peace prize winner aung san suu kyi. don't forget, if you miss a show go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my itunes podcasts. yeah. well, we gotta hand it thto fedex. glasses. they've helped make our e-commerce so easy, and now we're getting all kinds of new customers. i know. can you believe we're getting orders from canada, ireland...
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so you can use your new iphone 7 to stream, watch and play as much as you want. all on america's fastest 4g lte network. and get 4 lines for just $35 per month each with unlimited everything from t-mobileone on the amazing new iphone 7. in his farewell speech of the united nations this week, president obama singled out the presence in the hall of the newly elected leader of myanmar. >> we welcome a democratically elected leader to this assembly. >> he meant an sung sui chi, the democracy icon whose party won an election in 1990, which the country's military dictatorship refused to recognize. it put her under house arrest for 15 years. 20 years later, reformers in the military government realize they needed to open up to the world. they released an sung sui chi
and allowed her to run for a seat in parliament. she had been awarded the nobel peace prize in 1991 while under house arrest, and was finally able to accept it in person in 2012. today she leads myanmar after landslide elections last fall swept her opposition party into power. it is a rare story of peaceful transformation from dictatorship to democracy. president obama considers his administration's reengagement with the country and support of its transition, one of his foreign policy successes. and just last week he announced the end to virtually all the remaining american sanctions on myanmar. here now, my exclusive interview with aung san suu kyi. aung san suu kyi, pleasure having you on. >> happy to be with you. >> i have to start by asking you a very important question that
perplexes many people. what is your country called? >> well, officially it's called myanmar now. it used to be called burma in english, but in our language we always referred to it as myanmar. myanmar is how we pronounce it. >> i notice that you used myanmar at the u.n. and you used to call it burma and is that a conscious shift because of your position? >> because myanmar is the official name under which we are a member of the united nations. i don't think that just because we are now in the administration that we should go about changing everything. it is a little bit like flexing one's muscles. and as i explained, what we want is reconciliation, not domination. >> what does it feel like to have been a dissident, and somebody under house arrest and now, you are the head of the country? >> well, a lot of decisions i had to make while i was under house arrest, and perhaps more
than now, because you have to live day to day by yourself and just yourself and that requires many, many important decisions. so the difference, of course, is in the whole setup, but on the other hand, i don't think i'm doing anything very differently than what i was as the leader of the opposition. >> do you think about comparisons like nelson mandela? and one of the things that mandela seemed to have, the lesson that he seemed to impart to the world is one of forgiveness. he forgave the people who jailed him unjustly for over 25 years? >> well, when people ask me about forgiveness, i always explain that i don't think it's for me to forgive or not forgive. i don't really have any feelings of bitterness. and that is just my good fortune, perhaps it's something that you are born with, attitude towards life. i am not very good about remembering things done unto me as it were. i like to think that, i have a
deep sense of gratitude and never forget any nice thing that anybody has ever done for me to me. i try not to forget. but i am fortunate in that i don't dwell on, on what might be called the unpleasantness of others to us. to us as a working force, not just to me individually. >> now, your country is in transition from a military dictatorship to something else. there were many people who felt that it was important to keep the pressure on, on myanmar, and thus, it was important to maintain sanctions. but this week all u.s. sanctions have been lifted. you, yourself, only in may thought it was important to maintain some of the pressure and the sanctions.
do you think that you have made enough progress that you don't need that pressure anymore? >> i think that we have made enough progress for us to try to move on to another state. after all, sanctions were to help us along the way. it is a means, not an ends. as i was explaining to our friends in congress, sanctions were in a sense crutches to help us when we were not very strong. now i think that we have to lay aside the crutches and strengthen our own muscles. >> but the military remains very powerful, and it is written into the constitution that they are 25% of the parliament. and e. there must be red lines that you still cannot cross with the military. >> yes, there are, because we believe in the rule of law, and we accept the constitution for what it is at the moment, as long as it is enforced, but we want to amend it. we have been very open about it. this is part of the election platform that we would amend the constitution.
>> and remove some of those -- >> well, we want to truly have a democratic constitution, and you can't say that you are a working democracy, unless a constitution is democratic to begin with. as it is, many countries have perfectly democratic constitutions which are not implemented fully. >> up next, i will ask aung san suu kyi about one of the biggest puzzles of her nation. the home of buddhist leaders, but they are soundly persecuted for the persecution of a minority, the muslim minority. we will ask her about this when we come back. i laugh, i sneeze...
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leader of myanmar, aung san suu kyi. i have to ask you something about something that puzzles most westerners and particularly americans, which is that when one reads reports about your country now, mostly they are about the treatment of the rohingya muslims, this is muslims that are 5% of the country, but this is a group that is by every human rights organizations accounts systematically persecuted, denied citizenship, denied even an identity. until recently, people would not even refer to them as rohingya. so people look at a buddhist country that is persecuting violently a muslim minority, and the country is led by a nobel peace price winner. why? >> well, it is has been led by a nobel peace prize winner only since the end of last march. we have a lot of trouble trying to bring about the harmony and understanding and tolerance that
we wish for. i think i've heard that we formed a commission headed by dr. kofi annan to look into the state to look at the questions that you are asking, what are the problems, why have we got this? mind you, i would like to take the opportunity that this is not the only problem that we have to face, but this is one on which the international community has focused. so when we formed this commission, there were a number of political parties who opposed it, and are still opposing this for various reasons. so it is an uphill battle, and we also, and for us also, it is puzzling, why are we so intolerant when buddhism is the most tolerant philosophy imaginable. >> you know, there are people who argue that given the scale of the atrocities, it's not enough to form a commission. another nobel peace prize winner, the dalai lama, has been very critical of myanmar in this regard. is there not anything that you
can do more immediately to ease the plight of these people? >> we have done everything we can immediately. for example, we started a nationality verification, and we have started a bit of -- there were restrictions against muslims, which were not really spelled out by edicts or the laws or anything like that. and we lifted a lot of these restrictions, which we are in position to do. >> do you envision a circumstance where the rohingya will be treated as citizens with a vote and fill rights? >> first of all, all are entitled to citizenship must be given the rights of citizens. that's legal. what is more important is that we must try to bring back harmony and understanding and tolerance between the different communities. it is not just enough to just legally make people equal. you can't make laws that make people love each other, you
>> the first trip you took as the head of your country was to china. and i'm wondering how do you feel that china is too dominant in your country, a dam being built and it was a chinese project and the previous government, not yours, essentially canceled it or froze it because of public concern that i think that was a sense that chinese domestic nation was too strong. how do you feel? >> i don't think china is trying to dominate us. everywhere big powers do try to do as much as we can economically because this is the age of soft power. but china is a neighbor. and we can never move away from each other. and since we became independent we've managed to maintain good relations with china and this is exactly what i intend to do. >> what was your impression of president obama? you spent time with him this
week. >> i like him. and i like his dogs very much. >> what did you talk about? >> we talked about the sanctions, about relationship between our two country, about what we're trying to do to bring about democratization in burma. >> is he well regarded in burma? >> he is well regarded. he met -- he's been to burma twice and the first visit he had a very good meeting with some of our young people. >> what is the goal for myanmar, do you think it should be a multiparty democratic system with the full can my of rights and such or do you think because it is a small asian country it's going to have a different development? >> all countries develop differently, but i think multiparty democracy if you can make it work is the healthiest
and best in the long run. >> that's your as pieration. >> it is,le i will say my as pier race is to do myself out of a job, to discharge all of the duties i took on when i first became part of the movement for democracy. >> then what will you do? >> i'll sit back and read some of your books -- have you written any recently? >> one, but it's a very short one. you might even be able to read it with your current responsibilities. >> even now. >> aung san suu kyi, thanks so much. >> next on "gps" with we stop talking about skittles and talk about the real tragedy in syria. these are the photographs you should be tweeting. what powers the digital world? communication.
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aspir with world leaders this week for the annual u.n. again assembly. it's been five years since the u.n. admitted the most recent member, south sudan, which has been a u.n. member state for less than two decades? china, cuba? somalia or switzerland? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. the book of the week is "the fix." how nations survive and thrive in a world of decline. this is a truly refreshing read. anyone looking for good news, genuine, smart factually grounded good news in today's world should read this vividly
written book. it's a collection of case studies highlighting the smartest most effective strategies that nations are pursuing to tackle all of the problems you always read about, stagnation, radical islam, corruption, think of it as a guide to best practices among governments in the world today. and now for the last look. death, destruction, suffering. kne these are the images of syria the world should have been focused this week. instead we were distracted by this image, a bowl of candy. it went viral this week which donald trump jr. used poisoned skittles as a metaphor for the syrian crisis. the odds of an american being killed by a refugee in a terrorist attack are roughly one in 3.64 billion. all to make the comparison trump jr. did using those facts, if
one grabbed 69 million handfuls of skittles, chances are you would get to a poisoned one. trump jr.'s callous candy comparison happened at a time when there is a strong spotlight on syria during the u.n. general assembly. let's change the focus back to images like this. it was taken by cnn's senior international correspondent fred fliken. these haunting images quietly come out of syria every single day. all of these photographs were taken in the last few weeks alone. sometimes we just need images like these to remember what all this talk of the u.n. is really about. the correct answer to the gps challenge question is d, despite the fact that the u.n.'s european hub is located in switzerland, switer land does not become a member in 2002 following a referendum in that country. china was actually the very first nation to sign the u.n.
charter as it was the first victim of aggression by an axis power and became a u.n. member in october of 1945. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. the calm before the storm. there it is right there. hofstra university, the debate hall and you can hear the crowd forming as well. in just 31 hours, hillary clinton and donald trump will approach those podiums for their very first debate of the 2016 election. hello, everyone, i'm fredericka whitfield live at hofstra university. as if the stakes weren't high enough a new abc/"washington post" poll shows clinton and trump in a virtual dead heat. clinton with only a 2-point lead