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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  September 27, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

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thanks for joining us for this hour of "360." a lot to get to in this hour, including my interview with a leisha machado, the former miss
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universe contestant who says that trump humiliated her after gaining weight. trump talked about her weight gain again today. i'll speak to her in this hour. but first, last night's fiery debate is over, the sparks are still fighting. cnn's brianna keilar is in north carolina, where clinton campaigned the today, trying to leverage her momentum from last night. brie yabna will have the latest for us in just a moment. cnn's sara murray is also in florida, where donald trump held a rally. she'll join me live in a moment. the candidates have been trading punches all day. trump has been insisting he won the debate, despite what voters said in that cnn/orc poll. and he spent part of his day explaining and complaining about the debate, as well. here's sarah's report. >> it was an interesting evening. >> reporter: a day after the first presidential debate, donald trump is playing the blame game. >> well, he didn't ask her about the e-mails, at all. he didn't ask her about her scandals. he didn't ask her about the benghazi deal that she destroyed. >> reporter: after complimenting the debate moderator last night --
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>> i thought lester did a great job. >> okay. >> i thought, honestly, i thought he did a great job. >> you thought the questions were fair? >> reporter: today he's taking issue with nbc's lester holt. >> i had some hostile questions, but that's okay. >> and even the quality of his microphone on the debate stage. >> you have a bum mike, it's not exactly good. >> reporter: now trump's trying to reset the narrative, taking to twitter to cast clinton as a career politician, in a year when voters are looking for change. saying crooked hillary says she is going to do so many things. why hasn't she done them in her last 30 years. that's after some of trump's sharpest lines early in the debate. >> your husband signed nafta, which was one of the worst things that ever happened -- >> well, that's your opinion. >> -- to the manufacturing industry. >> reporter: were at least partly overshadowed by feisty exchanges later on that put trump on defense. >> you've got to ask yourself, why won't he release his tax returns? maybe he's not as rich as he says he is. or maybe he doesn't want the
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american people, all of you watching tonight, to know he's paid nothing in federal taxes -- >> make me smart. >> reporter: clinton pushing him on his taxes yet again. >> i got to that point where i said, maybe he's paid zero. he said that makes him smart. now, if not paying taxes makes him smart, what does that make all the rest of us? >> reporter: and leaving trump's campaign manager to explain the gop nominee doesn't believe climate change is man-made. >> he believes that climate change is naturally occurring. >> reporter: after clinton scoffed at clinton's beliefs last night. >> donald thinks that climate change is a hoax, perpetrated by the chinese. i think it's real -- >> i did not. i did not. >> i think science is real. >> i do not. >> reporter: back on the campaign trail today, clinton couldn't resist one more chance to needle her opponent.
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>> anyone who complains about the microphone isn't having a good night. >> reporter: donald trump seemed subdued earlier today. what was he like at tonight's rally? >> reporter: we saw a much feistier candidate on the stump here in florida this evening. it's clear that whatever opportunities he may have missed to go after hillary clinton on that debate stage, he wanted to make up for it tonight on the stump. he called clinton virtually incompetent. he went after her over her e-mails, over foreign policy, and also over trade. and he laid out, anderson, what i think is going to be key to his pitch between now and november, which is essentially saying that he is the candidate of the future. his is the campaign of the future. and if hillary clinton is a candidate of yesterday, that she's had decades in public life, in public office, and has very little to show for it. i expect we'll be hearing a lot of that in the next 40-something days. >> sara murray, thanks. as we said, hillary clinton hit the campaign trail as well with a much different tone. here's brianna keilar. >> reporter: hillary clinton all smiles after her first debate showdown with donald trump. >> did anybody see that debate
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last night? one down, two to go. >> reporter: jabbing at her rival today at a rally in north carolina, for his criticism that she was overprepared. >> reporter: he made it very clear that he didn't prepare for that debate. you know, at one point, he was kind of digging me for spending time off the campaign trail to get prepared, but just trying to keep track of everything he says took a lot of time and effort. i think it's real -- >> i did not. >> i think science is real. >> i do not say that. >> reporter: the clinton campaign thinks trump's constant interpretations of clinton won't go over well with women and reinforced her attacks on his temperament. >> wait, the afl-cio, the other day, behind the blue screen, i don't know who you were talking to, secretary clinton, but you were totally out of control. i said, there's a person with a temperament that's got a problem. >> secretary clinton? >> whoo! okay. >> reporter: clinton also went
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after trump, the former owner of the miss universe pageant, for criticizing the weight of one winner. >> and one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. he called this woman "miss piggy." then he called her "miss housekeeping," because she was latina. donald, she has a name. >> where did you find -- >> her name is alicia machado, and she has become a u.s. citizen. and you can bet -- >> oh, really? >> -- she's going to vote this november. >> okay, good. >> reporter: the clinton campaign followed up today with a new online video featuring machado. >> hello, miss piggy. or he would say, hello, miss housekeeping. >> reporter: and trump's comments about her. >> she weighed 118 pounds or 117 pounds and she went up to 160 or 170, so this is somebody that likes to eat. >> reporter: a trump spokesman says machado's claims are unsubstantiated, but trump refused to back away from his comments today. >> she gained a massive amount of weight and it was a real
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problem. >> reporter: trump did land blows on the issue of trade, where clinton's ardent support of the transpacific partnership as secretary of state, despite her reversal as a candidate, has been a vulnerability in rust belt battleground states. >> you called it the gold standard. >> well, i -- >> you called it the gold standard of trade deals. >> and you know what -- >> you said it's the finest deal you've ever seen. >> no. >> and then you heard what i said about it and all of a sudden you were against it. >> donald, i know you live in your own reality, but that is not the facts. the facts are, i did say, i hoped it would be a good deal. >> so, brianna, has clinton talked more about tpp today, because she did call it in the past the gold standard. >> reporter: no, that's right, she did. she did not talk about it today. this is an area of vulnerability for her. so perhaps not surprising. her spokesman tried to spin this and say, basically what hillary clinton said. is that she hoped it would be the gold standard, but that is certainly not what she said, anderson, when she was secretary
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of state. she was -- never said that her support for the trade pack was contingent on the final details that were going to be negotiated. and we've looked into this. there were dozens of times, more than 40 times where she pushed for this trade pact, and you would describe her support for it as really effusive, in fact. >> brianna keilar, thanks very much. just ahead, how do donald trump's claims about stop and frisk stand up to a reality check? and who strayed most from the truth last night in the heat of the debate? a reality check on that, ahead. plus, i'll talk to former miss universe, alicia move cachado, landed smack in the middle of the debate last night. you'll hear trump's comments about her. my heart beats one hundred thousand times a day sending oxygen to my muscles. again! so i can lift even the most demanding weight. take care of all your most important parts with centrum.
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last night was a busy one for fact checkers, including our team at cnn. hillary clinton and donald trump made a lot of claims during the 90-minute debate, not all of them true. so who strayed more from the truth? tom foreman takes a look. >> reporter: amid new fears of rising crime, a controversial police tactic worked its way into the debate. stopping people and frisking them for minor suspicions. donald trump, all for it. >> it worked very well in new york. it brought the crime rate way down. >> reporter: but clinton knew the facts said otherwise. a spokesman for the police department said crime kept declining even after the practice was largely stopped, with murders down 80% since 1990. and with a federal judge having ruled against the tactic, clinton hit trump hard. >> stop and frisk was found to
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be unconstitutional, and in part because it was ineffective. >> reporter: to be sure, clinton waded into deep water at times, too. at one point, for example, insisting she never flip-flopped over the transpacific trade deal. >> you called it gold standard of trade deals. >> and you know what? >> you said it's the finest deal you've ever seen. >> no. >> reporter: she does not support it now, but listen to her back in 2012. >> this tpp sets the gold standard in trade agreements, to taupe free, transparent, fair trade. >> reporter: still, trump strayed from the facts more often. on iraq -- >> i did not support the war in iraq. >> reporter: but listen to him with howard stern in 2002. >> are you for invading iraq? >> yeah, i guess so. i wish it was -- i wish the first time it was done correctly. >> reporter: on women, clinton insisted trump is -- >> someone who has said pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers, who has --
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>> i never said that. >> reporter: but the did, in 2004. >> the fact is, it is an inconvenience for a person that is running a business. >> reporter: and on climate change. >> donald thinks that climate change is a hoax, perpetrated by the chinese. i think it's real. >> i did not -- i did not. i do not say that. >> i think science is real. >> reporter: but there it is in a trump tweet from 2012. global warming was created by and for the chinese. although trump took a worse beating than clinton from fact checkers following this debate, the question is, how much does that matter? after all, in this election, polls have consistently shown voters don't really trust either one of them. anderson? >> tom, thanks very much. a lot to discuss. joining me now is cnn senior political commentator and former adviser, david axle rol rod, david gergen. do you think either candidate
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moved the needle significantly last night, or even moved the needle in terms of poll numbers? >> the nature of our politics is that there are large blocks of vote that are really set. and so, you know, there isn't a lot of movability within the electorate. i think two things happen. one is, i think donald trump failed to do what he needed to do, in terms of giving particularly these college-educated white voters who are a key to his success, a sense that he has the temperament and has the mastery of substance that he needs to be president. i think she also may have given some more encouragement to some of these young voters who have been flaking off to the third parties. so she could pick up some vote there. but i don't look for massive changes as a result of the debate. >> do you see donald trump altering the way he prepares for the next debate based on this debate? >> he sure should. he might actually practice and i think that would make a major difference. and i think what we have seen, a
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stark difference in the past few days is the professionalism of the clinton campaign is beginning to make a difference. >> that's what we saw last night. >> yes, and very importantly, what we've been seeing today. i agree with david, we don't yet know whether blocks of voters have been moved. we'll have to wait for polls later in the week. but what we doe know is the dynamics of the race are changing. he went from a bad night to a terrible day today. today, he had one of the worst days of his campaign. he was just being pummeled, left and right today, and what he -- >> which was made worse by continuing to talk about -- >> absolutely. there's a pattern to this, though. after the democratic convention, when the conclusion was that the democrats had had a much stronger convention and he had been beaten up for -- he went on a long sort of downward skein, in which he had one bad story after another bad story, which he, of his own creation. and the question is whether he
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can handle this debate and the aftermath of this debate in a way that doesn't deepen his problem. >> yeah, and what's really striking to me, and you'll have a chance to interview miss move c machado here in a few minutes, this seems to have been planned by the clinton campaign well before the debate. she gave an interview, got the pictures all ready, so they could publish it today. what were they thinking about? that this would become a big story today. >> and hillary clinton almost didn't get into the debate. it seems like she kind of shoehorned it in at the last minute. >> she wanted to unsettle donald trump. she raised what we know is a hot-button form. the fact that she was given money by his father to start his businesses. and you could see her systemically trying to unravel him. and she succeeded. >> after the first president obama debate of 2012, i
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understand, where he did not do well, and you knew within the first ten minutes of that debate. i understand you actually have showed him videotape of what specifically wasn't working, and that helped for next time? >> there's no doubt, we always reviewed tape with him, but we, you know, he needed a whole different approach. he had the wrong approach to that debate. i think he would say that. and he needed to approach it in a much different way. you know, these debates are -- they're not trials of fact, they're not like a courtroom proceeding. they're not a press conference. they're very -- they're theatrical in nature. and you have to plan carefully how you're going to deal with each question. and the next debate was a town hall meeting and the next debate will be between these two. so, there's the blocking associated with that, as well. how you move around the stage. >> and how you relate to other people. >> which is going to be very important. neither of them were particularly evocative last night, in terms of talking about
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people. here, they're going to have to face people and talk to them about their problems. and i think this could favor her in that this isn't donald trump's long suit. but we'll see. >> it gives her an opportunity to relate to people emotionally and empathetically, the way she has not before. but one of the big questions of these debates, she seems to be trying to goad him into bringing up bill in the second debate. >> that would be a huge mistake. >> we'll see what happens. thank you both very much. just as david noted, i'll speak with former miss universe, alicia machado who's now in the middle of the presidential election. she said that trump called her miss piggy and miss housekeeping. just today, trump talked about her weight again. she joins me next. hey america,
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i used to watch i tell myself not to look. but i look. this woman has gone missing. can you tell me where you were friday night? i went to visit my husband. you mean your ex-husband? that woman was his nanny. i tell myself not to look. but i look. i look. rated r. we thought fibers that caused unwanted gas.gular not good. then we switched to new mirafiber. only mirafiber supports regularity with dailycomfort fiber and is less likely to cause... unwanted gas. finally. try new mirafiber. from the makers of miralax.
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supporting them and hanging around them. and he called this woman "miss piggy." then he called her "miss housekeeping," because she was latina. donald, she has a name -- >> where did you find this -- >> her name is alicia machado. >> well, trump, of course, is not polgapologizing or even let up on the day that miss machado may or may not have gained weight 20 years ago. here's what he said this morning on fox news. >> i know that person. that person was a miss universe person. and she was the worst we ever had. the worst. the absolute worst. she was impossible. and she was a miss universe contestant and ultimately a winner who they had a tremendously difficult time with as miss universe. >> did not know that story. >> i didn't know it either. >> what -- >> she was the winner and she gained a massive amount of weight and it was a real problem. we had -- we had a real problem. >> and alicia machado joins me
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now. thank you so much for being with us. first of all, were you aware that secretary clinton was going to bring you up in the debate last night? >> no. hi. hello, how are you? >> i'm good. how are you? >> well, i can't believe that i'm in this show with you. i can't believe it. >> well, i'm happy you're here. >> no, i was -- thank you. and it was a big surprise for me and supporting her campaign. and for -- because -- because i'm a latin. i'm a latin worker. i'm a latin mom. i'm a latin businesswoman. i'm a latin actress. i'm not -- i'm not miss universe anymore. that happened 20 years ago. and the only reason then i want to share my story with mr. trump
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is because now i'm a u.s. -- an american, u.s. citizen, and i feel really proud for that. i have american daughter, because my daughter, she born here. and that is my reason. because i know this person very well -- >> let me ask you about, about what happened. before i do that, though, donald trump this morning -- just this morning, said that you were, quote, the absolute worst, and that you had gained, what he called a massive amount of the weight. were you surprised that he didn't back down from this today or apologize? that he continued to talk about this? >> yes, it's ridiculous. because he used this distraction. the point is, that happened 20 years ago. that is not important now. i know what i left with him.
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and he knows, too. and he was really aggressive. he was really rude. he was a bad person with me. and that is the story that i need to share. >> when you said -- >> for my community. >> when you said -- >> we can't accept more insults for my latin community. no more. no more insults for the women. >> you said that he had told you -- you said that he had called you -- >> i can see the same person that i met 20 years ago. >> so 20 -- >> and that is -- >> so take me back. what circumstance did he -- because the trump campaign is denying that he called you "miss piggy" or "miss housekeeping." you're saying, point-blank, he said that to your face. >> yes, all the time! and i share a lot of time with
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him in the office, in the events. maybe now, maybe now he remember me. but i think he didn't remember me maybe after last night, you know, because i was a really good miss universe. i did it maybe 100 campaigns. and publicity around the world. i never lost any contract for that over megaweight that i gain. and he's using that as a distraction. the point is, no more abuse for the girls. no more violence for the women. >> there was a time -- >> we are an amazing country and
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you know this is really natural moment for me. nobody are paying me for this. i'm supporting mrs. clinton for my idea. it's my responsibility. and after 20 years, maybe i need to share my story with this person. because i can't believe that he could be a possibility. >> there was a time -- there was a time back then when he had you work out in front of a room full of reporters and he gave an interview that we just showed earlier where he said that you -- that you liked to eat. i think at one point he called you an eating machine. what was going through your mind that day when you're in that room, in front of him and all of these reporters taking pictures of you working out?
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>> in that moment, i was in my 19 or so, and you know, i had my self-esteem on the floor. i, you know, was the most horrible moment that some girl can live. and you know that i forgot that moment. i forgot about that moment. and i have now my career, after 20 years. and i know i'm a big boy from the latin community. and in this election, our vote will be great. we'll be powerful. we have that power. and for that reason, i'm trying to share this bad experience that i had with this person.
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>> the trump campaign gave a statement to cnn today, saying that your claims are, quote, totally baseless and unsubstantiated. what's your response to that? >> well, all that pictures and all that videos and all that things are on the website. are on the web. in the world web. and the people know me. a lot of people know me. and it's not important what happened 20 years ago. i know what happened. and i had a lot of moments with him, between just him and me. and that was really rude for me. but, you know, now, he will use all that things to try to make a
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distraction. but the message is really clear. no more abuse for the women. >> can be somebody then that don't have any respect for the girls. that is my point and for that reason, you know, i'm supporting mrs. clinton and i believe in his politics plans, in her plans for our community. >> let me ask you -- >> and i believe in her. >> you said that the trump campaign will try to discredit you. there are reports that trump surrogates tonight have been referencing and pointing to on cnn and elsewhere about an incident in 1998 in venezuela, where you were accused of driving a getaway car from a murder scene. you were never charged with this. the judge in the case also said you threatened to kill him after he indicted your boyfriend for the attempted murder. i just want to give you a chance to address these reports that
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the trump surrogates are talking about. >> he can say whatever he wants to say. i don't care. you know, i have my past. of course, everybody has. everybody has a past. and i'm not a saint girl. but that is not the point now. that moment in venezuela was wrong, was another speculation about my life, because i'm a really famous person in my country, because i'm an actress there. and in mexico, too. and he can use whatever he wants to use. the point is, that happened 20 years ago. he was really rude with me. he was rf -- -- he tried to desy
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self-esteem. and now i'm a voice in the latin community. that is the point. he can say whatever he wants to say. i don't care. i'm in this moment in a great moment in my life and i have a very clear life. and i can -- and i can show my taxes. >> lastly, donald trump has said that he will, and i quote, be the best for women if elected. i'm wondering, what do you -- what do you think when you hear that? >> well, of course, he don't -- he doesn't want a woman. he's -- i -- i believe and i think this person, he thinks we're a second class of people.
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and somebody like that can't be a president. you understand me, what i want to say? >> i think our viewership -- >> that somebody believe then, everybody are down, maybe you are not in my style. you are not in my level. and somebody like that can't be a president. it's -- this country is beautiful. i love this country. i don't want to have some misogynistic president. i have a daughter. and she's growing up in this country. and she has the same rights. then some guy to. i want my daughter, then in the future, she can, she can receive
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the same salary. she needs to have the same rights that the guys have. >> alicia -- >> that is my opinion. >> alicia machado, i appreciate talking to you, thank you very much, and congratulations on being an american citizen. >> thank you very much and. [ speaking spanish ] >> muchos gracias. >> thank you. coming up, none of trump's past statements about women seem to make that much difference to his supporters. will this one be any different? we'll have that conversation, next. dayquil liquid gels doesn't treat a runny nose. it doesn't? alka-seltzer plus cold and cough liquid gels fight your worst cold symptoms including your runny nose. oh, what a relief it is! here's the plan. you want a family and a career, but most of the time you feel like you're trying to wrangle a hurricane. the rest of the time, they're asleep. then one day, hr schedules a meeting with you out of the blue. and it's the worst 19 minutes of your career.
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plus b vitamins to help convert food into fuel. one a day. before the break, we heard from former miss universe, alicia machado, who said trump called her miss piggy after she gained weight after one of his pageants and publicly humiliated. trump is on tape calling howard stern in the mid-90s that she was an eating machine. just today, trump repeated that she had gained a, quote, massive amount of weight, and it was, quote, a real problem. another problem for trump on this is a comparative lack of support among women. joining me now, gloria borger, dana bash, political strategist, angela ry, and trump supporter, kayleigh mcenany. it's interesting, gloria, the trump campaign is putting forward some news reports which we haven't been able to confirm yet, but doesn't seem like sh s she's -- >> denying. >> i put the question to miss machado, she said she's not a saint girl and she has a past.
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not everyone's driven a getaway car and threatened a judge, but she basically said, look, people have a past, but this past is what happened. >> she said, they can say whatever they want to say, with that hand movement. i think that she didn't deny it. and then she continued to go on and say her piece, which is that she felt insulted. she felt belittled. she was a 19-year-old who had no self-esteem and she said it was the most horrible moment a girl can have. the more she talks about it, it's not good for donald trump with women. she is not perfect. she does have a checkered past, obviously. but i do think that she was very clear about her message, which is that he was rude and a bad person. >> it's interesting, you know, we talked about this, kayleigh, you said, look, it wasn't a great idea for donald trump to continue to talk about it,
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because it allows the story to continue today. he was clearly asked about it. i don't think he brought it up independently. but this is not -- this is the last thing donald trump needs, just in terms of reaching out to women voters. >> exactly. and you know, you see the way that his mind is working on this. he's trying to explain it from the business perspective. because, i mean, i'm guessing she had some kind of clause in her contract, even if she didn't, her job was to be, you know, to be a pageant winner. and he's approaching it from the idea that, you know, that his -- thaz h winn that his winner, who was supposed to go around and be the person to represent miss -- somebody who's a pageant winner, who's supposed to look good, did not anymore. but not taking into account the fact that not just a woman, but also a father of a young girl, the mother of a young girl, people who are already concerned about society and what society says to and about young women, about how they look, about how
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calling someone miss piggy and so forth, about how that makes people feel, which feeds into the ad that the hillary clinton campaign already has up and so forth. so he doesn't take it to the next step in his mind about what the effect is going to be. >> she said she didn't expect -- didn't know that hillary clinton was going to do this. it certainly seemed that hillary clinton knew she was going to do this or wanted to get this in. because they've been able to roll out this commercial today, there was an article about it. it doesn't seem like this was all just a -- it just popped up. >> yeah, this definitely wasn't happenstan happenstance. and i think, frankly, the video was rolled out right after the debate last night. impeccable time welcome and it is the most compelling advertising work that hillary clinton has this election. i would argue this is the best political ad of this election. it's compelling. whether or not this woman has a past or not or how checkered it is, it doesn't matter. she is talking about this man who wants to be the commander in chief for all citizens. this is someone who belittled
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her, who called her miss piggy, miss housekeeping, an eating machine. this is someone who likes to eat. and he said today, to that i will plead guilty. and he's right. and what that resulted in for her was anorexia, bulimia, perhaps even the bad judgment to drive a getaway car, if that's what that was -- >> he's denying the housekeeping and i'm assuming the miss piggy thing. >> and maybe he is denying it, but let's be honest in saying that donald trump definitely has a selective memory. >> okay, so we're going to take the word of someone who just on national tv was asked if she told a federal judge that she would kill him, she just said, well wempb h well, everyone has a past. we're going to take her word? i find that very hard to believe. >> i don't. >> not only that, you know who i do believe, i believe miss usa, tara connor -- >> but for the record, she was never charged or indicted or found guilty -- >> there wasn't enough evidence. >> she was just asked on national television about the threatening the life of a federal judge, and she said, everyone has a past. it's well documented. the ap reported on it -- >> she also said it was wrong.
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>> the ap reported on it, the economist reported on it, she, in my mind, just admitted it on air. but i remember miss usa tara connor who had to remove her title because she was caught with drugs and donald trump fought to keep her. he likewise, when miss wisconsin had an incurable disease, wrote her a handwritten letter and took care of her and her mexican son. i'm going to look at the past -- >> why, when he did his interview this morning, why didn't he say that? why did he continue to say, oh, it's a problem, and he fed the perception that hillary clinton put out there last night. >> literally, to that, i will plead guilty, literally, what he said. and i think the bigger problem is, whether or not you can argue that he fought to keep her in place.
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he said, it was either termination or this. i pick this. when he said this, he was talked about humiliating her in terms of tons of reporters. as they worshe worked out in a . >> and we'll get back to the discussion we had before. but when you look at that press conference with the workout and all the rest, it's demeaning. >> absolutely. >> i don't think so. >> absolutely, it's demeaning. >> if she said -- she said herself -- she said it was the lowest moment -- >> when why did she do it? >> because she was 19 years old! a 19-year-old! >> a big part of that is promoting -- >> but she's a 19-year-old, she's not a citizen of the this country, she's here to work for the miss universe pageant, she's from venezuela, and donald trump, a powerful person, tells you to go and do though, you're telling me as a 19-year-old, that that's not a burden? >> miss usas all the time do events promoting physical fitness. i watched that video, and if you watch the video, what you see her is her hugging donald trump, her smiling -- >> under duress! >> why is it now 20 years later, she admitted in that interview, now is the time to bring that
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up. 20 years later when donald trump decided to are ed td t ed td t. >> because she finally has courage and citizenship. >> she has a spotlight. >> let her answer. >> let me answer anderson's question. the question is, why did she do it now? she has her citizenship, she has a community to speak up for. she said in the interview, i'm a big voice for the latin community. we have power. she wanted people to be empowered. and that's why she did that. >> we've got to leave the discussion here. gloria borger, dana bash, kayleigh mcenany, thanks. even some of those close to donald trump admitting that his debate performance not what they were hoping for. how much do the debate performances matter? dana bash, coming up next.
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>> donald thinks climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the chinese. think it is real. >> i did not. >> disappointed trump advisers are trying to take solace in history, candidates who rebounded from a lackluster first debate. you only have to go back four years for a prime example. >> we're putting it forward before congress right now, $4 trillion plan. >> but you've he been plt four years. >> he bombed in his debate against mitt romney. >> but not your own facts. >> obama used it as a wake-up call and came back strong in his second two debates. ronald reagan's first debate performance in his reelection bid was also a flop. >> an income tax on that same amount of money. >> his answers meanders, feeding into the notion he was too old for another term in the white house. but reagan recovered with debate number two with a prepared line delivered perfectly. >> i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's
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youth and inexperience. >> still, obama and reagan were already in the white house and didn't have as much to prove to voters as trump, who's a novice. his primary goal was to use the debate stage to sell himself as presidential. >> it is one of the reasons why -- >> team trump can look back to 1988 for evidence that first debates don't always matter most. democrat michael dukakis had a great first debate against president george h.w. bush. his second was a debacle. >> governor, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, bernard, and i think you know i have opposed the death penalty during all of my life. i don't see any evidence that it is a deterrent. >> that ante septic policy response instead of a human one led that he was weak.
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>> i have a better temperament than she does. >> reinforcing trump's trouble spots like his temperament is what trump sources say they fear their candidate did with repeated moments like this. >> i have a feeling by the end tv evening i will be blamed for everything. >> why not. >> dana bash, cnn new york. >> is a former presidential speech writer for jimmie carter, correspondent. we spoke before the debate. he james joins me again tonight. jim, obviously there were no incumbents on the stage, but secretary clinton had a much more political track record than donald trump. does that make it harder for him to make up ground in the next two debates? >> i think it does. and think there's another factor, too. it was a wonderful piece dana bash just did, and going back for debaters able to recover, barack obama, ronald reagan first george h.w. bush, all of them were really experienced
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political operators. you know, ronald reagan was a performer of decades standing, barack obama is a polished and competent guy, and they had teams they listened to. the question is donald trump, who is entirely new to politics and gives no sign of being able to listen or wanting to listen to coaching, whether he is able to make the same kind of adjustment barack obama did after his very disappointing first debate four years ago. >> right. i mean david axelrod was just on the program and saying that they showed president obama video tapes of what went wrong, the moments that went wrong, and he pivoted from that, he learned from that. >> right. all of these other people, they took the debate as a really serious thing they trained for and have many practice sessions and they watched themselves on tape, which is not a pleasant thing to do even for an actor like ronald reagan. again, there's no evidence that trump has done that so far. if he is able to recover and learn for this next debate, which you will have an up close view on, i think that will be a very impressive sign of his growth because we haven't seen that kind of studied approach to
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politics from him before. >> i kept thinking, i told you this earlier, i kept thinking of your pete in "the atlantic" because you talked in that piece about watching the debate with the sound off essentially, and the way cnn was broadcasting with reaction shots of both on the screen at the same time always, you really could get a sense of -- again, maybe it was hillary clinton was completely practiced on it, but, you know, she was trying to smile, she was -- you know, she had different emotions at different times but it was all very orchestrated, very thought-out, and she knew she was on camera the whole time, whether donald trump knew or not he certainly didn't act like he was on camera. >> indeed. in addition to hillary clinton knowing she was on camera, she also knew from all of her life in public office that, you know, it is just harder to be a woman on the public stage than it is to be a man. and donald trump, i think he's gotten along so far in this year and a half in politics being mr. natural and he may have come against a limit against it last night. >> you wrote in your piece about
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the simplicity of language that donald trump has used. it was analyzed to be basically at a fourth grade reading level, which is not really an insult. it is basically about the value of simplicity because it's been very effective. >> right. >> do you think that was the case as well last night? >> i think it -- as we've discussed before, there's a way in which sort of simple language, sort of seventh or eighth grade large, if they pars our discussion right now it could come in someplace in the seventh or eighth grade because that's how most news in. in the primaries he was able to do this simple sort of third grade, build a wall, we don't win anymore, we just lose, we're going to win with trump. i think trying to stretch it out over two minutes of substance answers was harder for him than it had been in the primaries. >> it is also interesting because when you read transcripts of what he said, and i'm doing that obviously as research, when you see it on the page it doesn't make the same sense it can make when he's actually saying it. when you see the breakdown of
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it, you see kind of the structure and it is a little startling at times. >> it is. and the same thing was true in a way with bill clinton's speeches. bill clinton is a smart guy, a very effective speaker, but if you read the transcripts somehow they wouldn't make the sense they did in person because there's a certain in-person performance skill. i think with donald trump is a little starker and you see this almost stream of consciousness, looking for what will appeal to the audience in real-time and going to that and often coming back to build a wall, we don't win, et cetera. >> right. >> it is a different sort of environments in the debates. >> appreciate it as always. thank you for being with us. we'll be right back. a john deere 1 family tractor there nevwith quik-parkt? lets you attach and go. imatch quick-hitch gives you more time for what you love, so it takes less work to do more work.
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that's all the time we got. thanks for watching. i will see you again tomorrow night. cnnwith don lemon starts now. >> 84 million people can't be wrong. the first presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump, must-see tv but did it change anybody's mind? did it change your mind? this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. hillary clinton couldn't be happier with her performance. >> did anybody see that debate last night? oh, yes! one down, two to go. hmm, was she happy? i couldn't tell. debate viewers in the lates


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