tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 3, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
shop. >> it's pronounced jina. >> reporter: jeanne moos, cnn -- >> jina. >> reporter: -- new york. and thank you so much for joining us. we'll see you back here tomorrow night. "a.c. 360" starts now. and good evening, thanks for joining us. if you're looking for a week that could decide the election, get ready. if you're still reeling from last week, get ready for more. our breaking news tonight, new cnn polling that shows just how much ground donald trump, who's speaking shortly tonight in colorado, has actually lost since the debate a week ago. and that is only partially factoring saturday's "new york times" report he might have avoided paying income taxes for the last 18 years after declaring nearly $1 billion in business losses back in 199 5. he's been talking about it today. expected to talk about it again tonight. his surrogates have also been talking about trump and his taxes calling him a genius. hillary clinton certainly is talks about it as well, but using somewhat different terms. trump also spoke out an veterans and suicide, that, too, has
touched off some controversy. nba champ lebron james is weighing in on the race now. new york's attorney general is taking action against the trump foundation. mike pence and tim kaine have been prepping for tomorrow's vice presidential debate. with the next presidential face-off, which i'll be co-moderating, now just six days away. strong week, big night. cnn's jason carroll starts it all off for us. >> reporter: donald trump trying to turn the tables on the tax issue. >> my understanding of the tax code gave me a tremendous advantage over those who didn't have a clue about it, including many of my competitors who lost everything they had, never to be heard from again. never -- they were never heard from again. >> reporter: trump's $916 million loss on his 1995 returns detailed in "the new york times," means he could have avoided paying any federal income tax for nearly two decades. hillary clinton seized on it today campaigning in ohio. >> while millions of american families, including mine and yours, were working hard, paying
our fair share, it seems he was contributing nothing to our nation. >> reporter: trump and his campaign not disputing the authenticity of the tax returns, instead, the gop nominee says he took advantage of the laws to make his company stronger. >> as a businessman and real estate developer, i have legally used the tax laws to my benefit. and to the benefit of my company, my investors and my employees. i mean, honestly, i have brilliantly -- i have brilliantly used those laws. i have often said on the campaign trail that i have a fiduciary responsibility to pay no more tax than is legally required. >> reporter: trump also accusing clinton of getting rich by selling favors and access. >> while i made my money as a very successful private businessperson, following the law all the way, hillary clinton
made her money as a corrupt public official breaking the law and putting her government office up for sale. >> reporter: trump's surrogates rushing to his defense over the weekend. >> the genius of donald trump has been to make sure that he follows the law, which is exactly what he's done. >> reporter: amid the fallout over his tax returns, trump today is facing new criticism after appearing to suggest that some veterans with ptsd lack strength. >> when people come back from war and combat and they see things that maybe a lot of the folks in this room have seen many times over, and you're strong and you can handle it, but a lot of people can't hand l it. >> reporter: the trump campaign says the remark was taken out of context and insists trump respects the service and sacrifice of military veterans. >> jason carroll joins us now from the trump event. so the new york attorney general today announced a notice of violation to donald trump's charitable foundation. what's the latest on that? >> reporter: well, first of all,
let me tell you, optics here are important. donald trump as you can see here has just now taken the podium, anderson. even before he did that, he was at the top of this arena filled with thousands of people, he was met by thunderous applause like you're hearing now. hard to believe if you're looking at these people that he's facing any criticism. theatrics obviously very important to donald trump, but so are the facts. and the fact is that the state attorney general in new york basically ordered a cease and desis for his foundation to basically stop fund-raising because they didn't file the proper paperwork charities need to do in the state. basically going forward now the foundation has 15 days to provide that proper paperwork, anderson, or they could be looking at fraud charges and it's really ironic because as you know, donald trump was very critical of the clinton foundation. now his foundation under scrutiny as well.
>> jason carroll, thanks very much. more on the new polling from cnn/orc. movement from both candidates whether in battleground states or among key groups of voters that neither candidate can take lightly. the bottom line, cnn's tom foreman, a busy man tonight. he joins us now. so a lot of new polls out today. run them down for us. what can you tell us? >> in one sentence, anderson, it was a great week for hillary clinton. look at this latest cnn/orc number. clinton is now at 47%. five ticks up from trump here. she was two ticks behind him a month ago. he's down here at 42%. johnson and stein, 7% and 2% accordingly if you're still looking for alternatives in this race. what is making a difference here? she is succeeding with certain demographics out there in a big way. for example, look at what's happening with the male vote. she's at 40%. he's at 45%. so, yes, he's still ahead with male voters, but he was a lot more ahead a month ago. she's closing that gap and, of course, with women over here still strong, 5 53% for her, on
40% for him. trump is being hurt by this tax issue. there's just no doubt about it. almost three-quarters of the people we polled said he needs to release his tax returns and more than half of the people we asked said the fact he's not releasing it shows he does have something to hide. and lastly, trump said he was going to make a big surge out there for minority voters. he went to african-american churches and into the black community saying he could win them over to his side. not yet. look at that. 95% still going for clinton in the african-american community. only 5% for trump, anderson. >> the votes obviously are going to happen state by state on election day. is there an indication how this might affect the lengelectoral ? >> yeah, the electoral map is what matters. this is our projection map from here at cnn. there's always a lot more red on it but when you look at the blue states which have big populations and big electoral counts, if hillary clinton right now wins all of the blue states and all of those that are
lightly tilted blue this way like colorado out here, if she wins all of those states, that's it, she's won the election. donald trump would have to win all of the red states, all of the states that are a little bit red, all of the yellow states, and he's going to have to tip one of those light blue states into his corner. it's not impossible, but that's the challenge in front of him right now. and he's got some work in front of him. by the way, part of the thing that's making a difference here is the enthusiasm is changing. hillary clinton's enthusiasm gap has beenanemic. you saw the cheering a moment ago with donald trump. his supporters really like him. hers are beginning to get behind her more. anderson, i do want to say there is one number here that has come up time and time and time again in some form that really aught to worry both parties. look at this. the unfavorable ratings. after everything we've been through, even though people are choosing candidates, still most people in this country maintain
unfavorable opinions of both of these candidates and may have a hard time seeing either one take the oath in january. >> tom, thanks very much. as you can see, donald trump getting started in loveland, colorado. going to bring you any news he makes if and when he makes it particularly if he talks about taxes, obviously the big story the last 24, 48 hours. let's bring in cnn senior political analyst, david gergen. cnn political analyst, "usa today" political analyst, kirsten powers, and molly ball, political writer for "the atlantic." bad news for donald trump the last couple days obviously. anything he can do at this point to turn around? still a couple weeks to go. >> one of his biggest problems is obviously the tax story. the momentum is already sort of moving against him and i think most americans probably don't begrudge people were using tax loopholes if you're a warren buffett, for example, who's come out and said i pay less than my secretary pays, that's wrong, we need to change the laws. and so trump has started saying that. the problem is he got caught. versus he came out and he
released the information. and so like in the poll showing -- >> he did from the beginning always say, i try to pay as little as possible. >> i don't think people quite understood the extent to how little he was paying. >> you actually see the dollars -- >> yeah, he had said, if he had come out and said i didn't pay any taxes and, you know, and really disclosed everything, i think it would be different than now it sort of feels like people are saying what else is there? >> right. molly, i mean, his argument t t that, you know, he knows the tax codes, you know, he's been able to take advantage of what were legal loopholes, he's the one to fix it. do you think people buy that? >> i think kirsten's right, it's worse as a post hoc explanation than it would have been if this was the explanation he was giving all along. i thought he gave a pretty good explanation today when he had several days to formulate the talking points. the problem was that he couldn't come up with that explanation on saturday when this was first coming out and his campaign stumbled and flail ed around an seemed to admit to several different unfavorable things. but, you know, if he had been saying all along, folks, the
real scandal is the tax code, here's what i'm going to do, this might be more believable. instead, it's obviously an explanation for something he didn't want to come out and for good reason. it offends people's notion of basic fairness. >> david, you worked for gerald ford who inherited the presidency from nixon. nixon released his tax returns while he was under audit. do you think donald trump, does this now force donald trump's hand to try to release something or not? >> it certainly increases pressure on him. he'll hear about it in the next two debates. the vpts sice presidential debad the one you're anchoring next week. he's going to try to resist it and ride it out. anderson, what we're seeing is i believe all the classic signs of a race that's starting to break and break decisively for one candidate. it does not mean the race is over. it's still fluid. who knows what wikileaks will actually come up with, out there threatening to come up with something explosive in the incoming hours. who knows how these debates will go. but if you look at the overall
signs, the polls, the national polls, the state polls, the sense of a lack of coherence among the people who are speaking for trump sort of going off the rails. this genius quote which hillary properly seized on, what kind of genius loses $1 billion and wants to run for the presidency? look how wonderful i am as a businessperson. so there is a lot here moving in one direction. if he's going to turn it around, he needs to do it very, very quickly. >> you know, kirsten, you look at this new cnn poll and it's, i think it's nearly eight in ten trump supporters in this new cnn poll say it's a civic duty to pay taxes. you would think that doesn't bode well, but that poll was actually taken before "the new york times" -- >> right. >> -- published this latest story. >> yeah. i'm not sure, again, i'm not sure if you ask people if somebody is using loopholes that are legal, are you okay with that? i think a certain -- a large percentage of people would say that's okay. it's just that trump should have come out in the beginning and like molly was saying and just said, you're not going to believe this.
i paid no taxes. this is wrong. you know, i'm going to change this. it's more when you won't release your taxes and it comes out that i think it becomes problematic for him. so, again, it just really raises the question of what else is in there and to the point of you're such a great businessman, how did you lose all this money? >> also, molly, you know, last week was by most accounts not a great week for donald trump. i mean, there was constant attention on the former miss universe, a story which probably would have been a one-day story after what happened in the debate. donald trump kept reviving, kept talking about it, tweeting about it late in the morning friday morning and now we're starting another week with yet another story that is taking donald trump off from what he wants to talk about. >> that's right. and there's a groundhog day quality to all of this, right? i was looking back at some of my stories from six months ago. it was the same, like, can you believe what trump did, that he doubled down on it and keeps wading into these controversies? in a sense, you know, that week or two-week-long period we had where the story was really about
hillary clinton and where she was falling behind, that was the anomaly. it's trump who has this pattern that we've seen over and over again of not being able to let things go, being knocked off message, and not being able to change the subject and doubling down on whatever it is that he's accused of. >> anderson, one other point i think should be made, it's not just about how much taxes he paid. it's also his claim that as a businessman during this period web he was losing all this money, he did good things for investors, good things for companies associated with him. the same "new york times" report that helped us understand his taxes in the mid 9 '90s also pointed out as investors they saw their stock go from $35 to 17 cents. his contractors in various casi casinos, you know, got pennies back on the dollars they had been promised. employees lost their jobs. this was hardly something -- the only person who gained something out of this bankruptcy and everything was donald trump. >> a lot more to talk about in our extended coverage tonight including donald trump's past criticisms of what other people pay or don't pay in taxes. he's had a lot to say of that in
the past. later this new allegations about the state of hk illary clinton' marriage and the heartburn it's giving some republicans. hey, jesse. who are you? i'm vern, the orange money retirement rabbit from voya. orange money represents the money you put away for retirement. over time, your money could multiply. hello, all of you. get organized at voya.com. ...doesn't go on your wrist. technology... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with class-leading horsepower. which is good for me 200-degree range of sight hey! and bad for the barkley twins. take care of all your most important parts with centrum. upgraded to our most d3 ever.
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those laws" meaning the tax code, laws that would have allowed him to reduce or eliminate his federal income tax bill for a generation, 18 years. whether he did or not, he's not saying. whether he's pay a political price for any tax choices or reap benefits for speaking out certainly remains to be seen. ma does stand out, however, is how fovocal and oftentimes critical donald trump has actually been about what other people pay in taxes. more on that from randi kaye. >> i'm under a routine audit. >> reporter: donald trump likes to talk about taxes. not so much his own, but others. here's what he had to say in 202 2011 1 when asked about president obama's plan to raise taxes on the wealthy. >> you know, i don't mind sacrificing for the country to be honest with you, but you do have a problem because half of the people don't pay any tax. he's talking about people that are not also working, that are not contributing to the society. 50%, it just hit the 50% mark. 50% of the people are paying no tax. >> reporter: and that's not all.
trump has weighed in on taxes many times on twitter as well. like in this 2012 tweet where he criticizes the president's tax returns. barack obama who wants to raise all our taxes only pays 20.5% on $790,000 salary, do as i say, not as i do. along the same theme, trump tweeting half of americansdon't pay income tax despite crippling debt. later that same year tweeting "facebook billionaire gives up his u.s. citizenship in order to save taxes. i guess $3.8 billion isn't enough." and it doesn't stop there. >> the problem we have right now, we have a society that sits back and says we don't have to do anything, and eventually the 50% cannot carry, and it's unfair to them, but cannot carry the other 50%. >> reporter: and again. >> most of these people are paying nothing now. they have nothing. and what are you going to do? so i believe in proper management, proper administration. i'd love everybody to pay
because psychologically i think that's good. >> reporter: and again. >> i know people that are making a tremendous amount of money and paying virtually no tax. i think it's unfair. >> reporter: but while criticizing others for shirking their tax duty, he has boasted about his how works the system, himself. >> what is your tax rate? >> it's none of your business. you'll see it when i release, but i fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible. >> reporter: and when accused by hillary clinton in last week's debate of not paying federal income taxes, trump had this to say. >> and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. so -- >> that makes me smart. >> reporter: and now twitter users weighing in with the #lasttimetrumppaidtaxes, including i got fined for not rewinding my vcr tapeses from blockbuster, we still had dialup internet. dems were doing this as they likely are again tonight. man, how i love an october surprise. perhaps the best saying, "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
and with 35 days to go, everyone's waiting to see what stones have yet to be tossed. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> joining us now, cnn politica jones and paul begala. kayleigh mcenany, jeffrey lord. they are trump supporters. so is andre bower. kayleigh, does donald trump have any right to be criticizing other people, other americans for not paying taxes when this "new york times" report has revealed what it revealed? >> he did everything within the bounds of the law. that's really important to point out. >> so have the people he's been criticizing who haven't paid taxes. >> right. he's done everything within the bounds of the law. that's the point today. he took out -- wrote down $918 million in losses. so did hillary clinton. she wrote down $700,000 in losses. what we call net operating loss. she did the same thing that donald trump did and donald trump did everything within the bounds of the law and i'm pretty sure none of us at this table
have gratuitously paid the irs more than we had to. >> is it critical for talking about other people not paying taxes legally, when in fact, he was doing the exact same thing? >> look, go back 20 years and find things hillary clinton has said that have absolutely hypocritical. dig through people's past and find a lot. no. is it hypocritical? yeah, he probably shouldn't be saying that and taking advantage of that but we can do the same with hillary clinton. >> paul, hypocritical? >> well, of course, it is. we are all hypocrites at some -- at least if we have high standards we are because nobody ever reaches those standards. the problem he has politically is not only just the hypocrisy, but it's the sense that he has gamed the system to advantage himself. this is, i think -- there's two things at the core i think of plflt trump's appeal. first, i'm a confident businessman. okay, i think certainly blows a hole below the waterline on that. lose $900 billion in a boom year while running a casino, hard to argue you're a business genius. the second thing is, he always said i'm going to stand up for
the little guy. he always seemed an unlikely messenger. good for him. he pulled it off in the primaries. it's reminiscent of another new yorker you may call, leona helmsley. she didn't pay any taxes and said only the little people pay taxes. now, unlike trump -- no reason to believe trump broke the law. he obviously did. you know who indicted her? rudy giuliani. one of the top trump supporters. >> does this, jeffrey, does this put kind of a dent in the reputation of donald trump as a brilliant businessman? . >> no, no. i'll tell you, there was a 1995 article in "the new york times" that called him the comeback kid. and it was all about a big event in new york thrown by apparently every civic leader that was there including in the business world. very admiring of his comeback, his financial comeback from this situation. i mean, there was the police commissioner -- >> but to david gergen's point earlier, shareholders, stock -- people who bought stock -- >> right. >> that stock was reduced to,
according to david gergen, virtually nothing and a lot of vendors didn't get paid on the dollar. >> right, but he came back from it. >> he did, but the question is did the stockholders and vendors? >> this is capitalism, this is human life here. everybody, everybody goes up and down and has the rainbow comes and goes. if i may use a phrase. and i honestly don't think -- i was stopped in the grocery store sunday by a woman who'd seen this story. she was infuriated. she said my husband and i, middle class people, she said we have to do these kind of things with our investments all the time. she says you have to be smart about this. she says i think what he did was the right thing. good for him. >> well, you know, she might be lonely at church this weekend because i think that this is the big fear. we've now gotten down to it. i think there's a big fear that somehow we live in a country where there's some people who are so wealthy that no matter what they do, they can't lose. they literally just can't lose. and then the rest of us, no matter what we do, it seems like we just can't win. and i think he now is becoming
the poster boy for that. and i think for me, the other part of it beyond the tax stuff, when you pull the story back, it looks like his comeback was stepping on the economic corpses of a lot of people who didn't come back. and who can't come back. and so you got two problems now. one is, the patriotism takes a little bit of a ding. the cares about people like you takes a little bit of a ding. also the fear that we live in a rigged society, now he is the poster boy of that. i think that's tough for you guys. >> i would say a couple things. in '95 over a million people declared a loss as well. and had a write-down. second thing, the very newspaper that wrote this story, while they had over $30 million in profit last year, they got a tax rebate of $3.5 million. if that's not hypocrisy, they wrote the story and they got a check back from the taxpayers. also the newspaper industry in general gets over $1 billion every year in tax breaks. over $1 billion a year.
donald trump created 22,000-plus jobs this year. when you use the multiplier most economists use, that's 65,000 jobs paid over -- when you look at these numbers, to say he's a bad businessman because he capitalized on a system that was set up by the united states congress, look, i'm a real estate developer. some years aren't good. some years you put all your losses in that year and go ahead and write down bad properties. >> maria, was he a smart businessman for using the law? >> you know, personally, anderson, i like businessmen who don't lose $1 billion. i hate to tell you. but i do think that this points to not just the hypocrisy of it all, when he is, you know, dinging everybody else for not paying taxes and then clearly we see that he not only hasn't paid any taxes, declared almost $1 billion loss, and by the way, hillary clinton might have, too, but guess what, she pays over 33% in her tax rate. and now we see that for the next 20 years, after that, who knows for how long he is going to pay zero taxes. he has stiffed middle class and
working class people. he has stiffed his stockholders. and sure, he came back, but did he do anything, did he make any effort to pay everybody back? absolutely not. >> there's much more ahead. more with our panelists. up next the subject of infidelity is raised again. this time donald trump is accusing hillary clinton of not being loyal to her husband. more on that ahead. amazing sleep stays with you all day and all night. with sleep number, you choose the exact firmness and comfort you want - and so does your partner - for the best sleep ever. the columbus day sale is on now with the queen c4 mattress set only $1399.98. plus 24-month financing. learn more at sleepnumber.com be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara®
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a lot of news tonight. the breaking news, hillary clinton leading donald trump by five points in a new cnn/orc poll. the poll was taken after the first debate but mostly before a "the new york times" report revealed mr. trump may have avoided paying federal taxes for close to two decades. trump coming under fire for what he said over the weekend at a rally in pennsylvania about his opponent. listen. >> hillary clinton's only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself. i don't even think she's loyal to bill. if you want to know the truth. and really, folks, really, why should she be, right? >> back with me, trump supporter jeffrey lord, joining us, republican strategist ana navarro, certainly not a trump fan. jeff, given donald trump's need
to reach out to undecided women voters, is this a line of attack that makes sense? clearly this seemed to be an ad lib here. >> yeah, i think it was an ad lib. i think this will sink -- i mean, with all the other news that's going on, i think this will sink, you know, immediately. >> are you glad it will sink? do you think it's a line -- >> yes. deep six it. what i think is going to be sticking to, i mean, the tax issue i really do think is going to backfire on all the people that think this is a big deal. i mean, rush limbaugh was talking -- it backfires on two fronts. the actual tax issue, itself. hillary clinton, of course, used the same accounting dev vivice >> given, for a week now, he's been floating, you know, hillary clinton marriage stories. this is the first time he actually was sort of suggesting this version of it. >> here, to me, the legit issue here with the marriage issue is her treatment of these various women. juanita broaddrick, kathleen
willey. kathleen willey i heard somewhere today is willing to go out on the campaign trail for him. she's so angry at the treatment. >> let me bring in ana. "a," what do you make of donald trump bringing this up? this is the first time he's actually said this publicly and clearly. >> you know, we got what, 35 days and 3 hours left, but who's counting? what i can tell you based on the last week, donald trump has become unhinged, completely unglued and plans to take us way down the drain into the gutter in the next month and a week. i think it is shameful. i think it is disgusting. and i think his surrogates instead of adding fuel to the fire, finding ways of defending these allegations and these charges and these totally made up things he's coming up with, need to put a stop to it. when you see somebody you love, when you see somebody you care for driving erratically, driving drunk, you take the keys away. you don't let that person continue to drive erratically, drive right into a brick wall. donald trump is driving smack into a big, beautiful brick
wall, and it is driving the entire republican party down. people must say it is crazy. i am begging my friends, newt gingrich and rudy giuliani who i know to stop the insanity, stop finding ways of pitching the stories against alicia machado. let me just say something obvious probably to most americans but apparently not to trump and his supporters. look, man, if you dodged the draft four times, you really should not wage attacks against political -- against prisoners of war or against people who served in the war. you shouldn't call them not strong enough. if you had your share of well-publicized infidelities, you really shouldn't be attacking other people about their marriage challenges. if you look like you haven't seen the inside of a gym in at least three years, maybe just maybe you should restrain yourself from calling a beauty queen fat and miss piggy. >> all right. >> i mean, i think that's just the obvious. >> is -- you know, we had this discussion i think it was on
friday with you, ana, about presidential behavior and tweeting with presidential behavior. is bringing up, making this allegation completely unfounded without offering any evidence about your opponent, is that presidential? >> in american history, yes. it was done to andrew jackson, he didn't like it, either, and they called his wife -- i can't stay w say what say called his wife on air. there is a history of this. >> those were 1800s. >> i thought after our conversation, i thought a lot object this. i do think there's been a change in what is seen as presidential. i think if you're going to pinpoint it somewhere, it began when richard nixon appeared on "laugh in" in 1968 all the way through bill clinton playing on ar sinio hall with paul begala sunglasses as i understand the tale. no way in the world dwight d. eisenhower would have done something like that. today president obama goes on and jives with jimmy fallon. >> making allegations, that's in a different category than --
>> i'm just saying the standard now has dropped so dramatically that almost anything goes. >> ana -- >> i totally disagree. >> president of the united states, in which anything goes? >> absolutely not. it's the highest office in the land. it is sitting in the oval office. it is the responsibility of representing every single american. it is the person who's going to embrace this country and have us move forward not if but when tragedy strikes the united states. it's the person who's the commander in chief. it's the person who represents us when making bilateral trea treaties and sitting across the table from our enemies and allies. it's the person who needs to be taken seriously by the entire world, and if you think a person on a public stage mocking hillary clinton when she had pneumonia, if you think a person mocking a reporter with a disability qualifies as presidential behavior and status quo that we should now all accept? you frankly see the presidency very differently than i do. >> all right. we got to leave it there. ana navarro, jeffrey lord. up ahead, are donald trump
supporters okay that he avoided paying income taxes for years while they were writing checks to uncle sam? what some told our gary tuchman, ahead. ♪ ♪ only those who dare drive the world forward. the cadillac ct6. whthat i would never grow up. made a deal with myself we met when we were very young... i was 17, he was 18. we made the movie the book of life. we started doing animation. with the surface book, you can do all this stuff. you can actually draw on the screen. so crisp. i love it. it's almost like this super powerful computer and a tablet had the perfect baby. it's a typewriter for writing scripts... it's a sketchbook for sketches... ...it's a canvas for painting...
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donald trump is campaigning in colorado tonight in the wake o "the new york times" report that he might have avoided paying income taxes for the last 18 years, completely legally. here's what he said a short time ago. >> the unfairness of the tax laws is unbelievable. if something that i've been talking about for a long time. you've heard me talking about it. despite being a very big beneficiary, i must admit. i am. i'm a big beneficiary. but you're more important than my being a beneficiary, so we're going to straighten it out and make it fair for everybody. >> so, what did donald trump supporters have to say about trump's tax strategies? gary tuchman got answers today at another rally in colorado. >> reporter: these are the most loyal of donald trump's supporters. >> raise your hand if you don't pay any federal income tax. don't pay any, zero. >> me. >> me. >> reporter: this woman right here? you don't pay federal income tax? >> not anymore.
>> reporter: how many of you do pay federal income tax? all indications are an overwhelming majority of people in this line write checks to uncle sam. what does it mean to them if donald trump doesn't? do you pay federal income taxes? >> yes, i do. >> reporter: so if donald trump is a genius for not paying federal income taxes, with all due respect, what does that make you? >> i guess not that smart. >> reporter: more than 100 people who don't much like trump showed up outside this pueblo, colorado, rally, trying to highlight his tax issues, but there are a lot of trump supporters here who pay federal taxes who genuinely like that donald trump may not. >> i wish i could -- i had the smarts just to do the same thing. >> reporter: you don't think you're as smart as he is? >> probably not. not going to lie. >> i'm taxpayer and i need to learn how to be a genius. >> reporter: what about funding the military, highways, bridges, airports? things trump often talks about. things that are paid for with federal income taxes.
do you think he has a moral responsibility to pay federal income tax? not a legal responsibility but a moral responsibility? >> not in this particular situation, no, because he could use that money to put back into communities, use that money to go ahead and refuel the economy. >> reporter: but if the 1995 tax return excerpts are accurate, it quantifies trump lost a great deal of that money. nearly $1 billion on that particular return. does that trouble you about his acumen as a businessperson? >> i understand. does to a point. >> reporter: however, this retired firefighter say it's a minor problem and trump is his man. but is it time now for some trump transparency? would you like to see him release his tax returns? >> in time, yes. >> reporter: before the election? >> before the election, it doesn't matter to me. >> reporter: why doesn't it matter? don't you want to be reassured that he's telling the truth about what his claims are? >> because i know he's telling the truth. >> reporter: in this room, trump's word on his taxes is largely taken as gospel. >> he's either paid them or avoided them through legal means
and there isn't a person in this room who wouldn't do the same thing if they could. >> gary, as we mentioned, trump's not shying away from addressing the tax issue at the rallies. >> reporter: that's right, anderson. near the beginning of this rally here, he talked about something that wasn't necessarily surprising but was still notable. he said that i know how to use the tax code. but then he said, however, i am working for you now, i am not working for trump. that brought down the crowd. they loved hearing that inside the hall here. but outside the hall, where the protesters were, they did not believe that for a second. what matters, though, are the people in the middle. the people who are left who aren't quite sure if they're voting for hillary clinton or donald trump or an independent candidate. and if they believe statements like that are sincere and honest. anderson? >> all right. gary, appreciate your reporting. more breaking news, another piece of the backdrop in colorado. new monmouth university poll shows hillary clinton with an 11-point lead over donald trump with likely colorado voters.
gary johnson, jill stein in the single digits. a lot to discuss. back with the fapanel. jeff, i think gary raised a good point, people who are undecided, who may be on the fence, those people in the room certainly diehard trump supporters say, look, i don't really care, i think it shows he's a genius. all the things we've been hearing from the surrogates. in this latest -- i think 79% of trump supporters in one poll say paying taxes is a person's civic duty. this was before even this story broke. so do you think this story has resonance among people who are undecided or on the fence? >> i really do think that the intended effect of this story for "the new york times," by the way, "the new york times" wouldn't publish the -- rush limbaugh pointed this out today -- wouldn't publish those leaked and hacked e-mails about climate science. they refuse td to publish them because it was illegal, yet it's okay to release donald trump's tax returns which brings up the question of media agenda.
i think this is going to backfire here. so many people, i got an e-mail from a private music teacher whom i know talking all about this and she says your losses are proportionate to your income and she says of course he's doing this. her concluding sentence is, i think he's a pretty smart businessman. i really think this can backfire. >> put your money where your mouth is. >> i advise a -- >> i don't have $1 billion. >> i don't but i have several million. over $100 million. we're putting money behind an ad which we've already made, since "the new york times" ran that. you make a good point, by the way, we shouldn't be lively ignoring that this may well have been a crime. as was the crime when the democrats were hacked. i did not hear you call attention to the media for using -- >> i'm not for hacking. >> setting that aside, our pac -- >> because you actually believe it does resonate? >> yes, we know it works because even trump supporters think he should release his taxes. nobody likes being called stupid. we filmed a woman in marion, ohio, who said when he says that it makes him smart that he doesn't pay, it makes me think that he thinks i'm stupid.
she says i don't want a president who brags about getting out of paying taxes. i want a president who's proud of our country and who lifts me up. this is going to work. i mean, i could be wrong. i'm not just spinning here. >> what's so interesting, though, you see those trump supporters and there's a way that when you have a hero, when you have somebody who's reaching out to you as he's been doing and trying to give you some hope, you project a lot onto him and you forgive a lot. i think some of these trump voters are going to be where jeff is. i think you have a lot of people who are very uncomfortable with this and who are going to say to themselves, you know what, there's just something unseemly, it's hard to feel great about the braggadocios stuff when it -- >> we got to take a quick break. want to hear from more of our panelists. when we come back, we'll talk about how big of a speed bump donald trump's taxes may be for his supporters. plus how does the trump campaign square a nearly billion-dollar reported loss with his image as a businessman? details ahead.
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wasn't paying taxes or wasn't paying taxes or the business loss, does it concern you that this close to the election, valuable days are being eaten up by his surrogates having to respond to questions about his taxes, things which obviously there's probably a lot of other things they prefer to be dealing with. >> sure, well, i always think it's smarter to switch to the offense and not to explain things, but on a day like today, i think it was important for donald trump to give an explanation, to play defense a little before moving to offense. and i also think it's really important we step back and ask why this tax write-off exists to begin with. it's not as if it's this gift given to people who are wealthy. what it does, it's supposed to incentivize you to invest and create jobs and add to the economy. and in the event you get losses, it's to further to incentivize you to continue investing and putting your money out the there, not to withdraw from the economy entirely. >> but that's a law that's no longer in effect. it actually allowed somebody to take -- that may not have been all his money.
he may have only put $1 million into whatever the business was. he might have gotten a loan for the vast majority of it. but under the tax law at the time, he could have taken the entire loss, even though he didn't put in all the money. >> that's absolutely true. >> but we don't have details. >> that's true, but in jeff's story, calling trump the comeback kid, it notes that trump was $1 billion in the red personally. he was in a perilous place and came back from that. and if "the new york times" wants to remedy the agenda jeff spoke about, perhaps they should look at hillary clinton's taxes. she's written off $13,000 in computer and computer-related expenses. there are questions about whether the personal server was included, because if it was, that would be an illegal write off. >> where this goes to, and what the political strength is in this argument, is the tax code. so many people out there don't like the irs, they can't stand the irs. first commissioner is on the verge of being impeached. >> but our guest l earlier were pointing out, wouldn't it have
been better for donald trump to have broken this and saying, it was an unfair tax code, i took full advantage of it, but i'm going to fix it for you. >> anderson, that is the conventional political wisdom in this town, without doubt. i've said for months, you shouldn't release any of it. i think the whole thing is a game and a scam to get people to do this. people who are outsiders, as rush limbaugh pointed out, who have never been elected to public office, this is a game to get them. >> maria, do you think there's any chance donald trump will release tax returns now, at this point? >> no, absolutely not. especially not after this. and the fact he's got to defend something that's indefensible. and i would say a couple of things. the story actually has legs, and what is more damning than the fact that he probably didn't pay any taxes and that today he was talking about how the military is weak and needs to grow, well, guess what, donald? you know what would help grow the military? if you would pay your damned taxes. but more importantly, to his argument that he is a brilliant businessman, because that is what he has put forth, that would make him qualified to be
president of the united states and to carry our economy, until we get sick of winning, right? there has been an analysis by financial experts a that say his excuse that fiduciary responsibility is what took him to claim that loss is laughable. because that you use when you are looking for other people, you are looking at other people's wealth. this was his own wealth. that was not fiduciary responsibility. that was personal greed. and in addition to that, there's a lot of other financial experts who say, you know what? if he had put the money 30 years ago into an index fund, he would be twice as wealthy as he is today. brilliant businessman, i don't think so. >> donald trump is wrapping up his comments there in colorado. andre, why not just release now his tax returns, or release basic information, financial -- >> because it will be distorted, just like the last two -- look, almost every state in the country, for a couple thousand jobs, gives unbelievable tax credits, all kinds of incentives. and to say he doesn't pay taxes is absolutely wrong. he pays property tax, he pays
fica, he pays sales tax, he pays hundreds of millions every year in taxes, so he does pay taxes -- >> how do we know? >> because by law, you have to. >> have you seen his tax returns -- >> you don't have to file tax returns to show you pay property taxes or they take your property. >> he's the only person who has not released his tax returns since nixon. >> but that means that everyone from washington to llbj didn't - >> didn't release their taxes. >> and here's a bigger question. how does somebody that only give speeches write off $700,000 in losses. she's not producing any jobs. she's not creating any income for other people, except for maybe a few lawyers. so how did she write down $700,000 when her whole income is based on giving speeches. >> she paid 34% in taxes. >> and we know that because she has released her taxes. >> and for 40 years. >> much more ahead, "360" continues next hour, including more breaking news, and more polling shows hillary clinton gaining traction in several battleground states. donald trump has expanded his
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thanks for joining us tonight on "360." donald trump just wrapping up a large rally tonight in swing state, colorado. he spoke for about an hour, touching briefly on that "new york times" story and how little he might have paid in taxes over a spam of 18 years. there's that, as well as breaking news on a batch of new polling and more. our jason