tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN October 3, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
first, a mystery tipster sends several pages from trump's 1995 tax returns to the "new york times" revealing the multi-billionaire wrote off almost a billion dollars, $960 million in losses. donald trump says that just proves he's a great businessman. >> i have legally used the tax laws to my benefit, and to the benefit of my company, my investors and my employees. i mean honestly i have brilliantly -- i have brilliantly used those laws. >> well, of course, hillary clinton disagrees. >> what kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a single year? this is trump to a t. then new york's attorney general orders the trump foundation to immediately stop fundraising saying it is in violation of state laws. and then there's this. our first national poll since
the debate shows hillary clinton with a five point lead over donald trump. yes, there is a lot to go over tonight, and so we're going to discuss it all starting now with cnn senior political analyst mr. david gergen and larry sabato. director of politics at the university of virginia. why don't we start with the new poll, larry. thank you for joining me. trump trails clinton by 5%, that's nationally, 47 clinton, 42 trump. it shows since cnn's last poll she is up, he is down. this was completed after the debate but before the stunning news about the taxes. this is also a cbs "new york times" poll out tonight, similar result, clinton up by four. what do you make of this? >> and there's also another national survey, survey monkey that has clinton up by about six. look, it is all good news for clinton. we know national polls don't matter as much, it is really the battleground polls.
she got tremendous news today from colorado, from florida, from north carolina, from pennsylvania. only one exception, ohio, where she clearly is doing very poorly, but she is winning the other battleground states. so, you know, if this continues -- now, that's a giant if -- obviously she is going to be a clear favorite. she probably is the clear favorite, but there are two more debates to come. there could be outside events or revelations that change everything. you just never know. >> we're going to discuss that a little bit later on in this particular segment, but, david, i want to ask you because there's a striking difference in this poll now about hillary clinton's support among men. trump has a five point lead among men. early september showed a 22 point lead. do you think it is because of his performance at the debate? >> think he has been eroding since the debate, and a steady series since then. attacking miss universe, carrying on that conversation for days. this poll takes us up to the
edge of the tax controversy, which is going to further hurt him i think particularly among educated men. he's now suffering a lot, and he's -- this is not over. this is still fluid, but his chances of winning are going down to go back to larry sabato's point, there are four critical states that he has to win all four, florida, north carolina, ohio and pennsylvania. he is behind in three of the four. >> what are you thinking men are seeing that's changing their minds? >> think they've been turned off by -- i think the quality of his debate performance rattled a lot of people. they're sort of saying, is he really up to this or not? a lot of people came out saying, i don't like her, i don't trust her, but, geez, we're not going to put somebody in there that is so erratic and doesn't have control of a conversation. >> is it because, you know, i have heard you and a number of people say debates really don't change that much, usually don't change that much. was this just a bad debate performance or was it just erratic?
is there a difference? >> it was a bad debate performance but it is consistent with everything else. what did we learn that was critical? he didn't prepare, he tried to wing it. his own people are saying, newt gingrich came out saying he has to prepare. if it doesn't change it for the next debate, he doesn't have a path to the white house. >> we talked about men, larry. let's talk about him trying to woo african-american voters because he needs african-american voters. this new poll shows 95% for hillary clinton, 5 for trump. can he win more support from black voters with the way he is doing it now? >> i think it is very doubtful. you know could it be six or seven? i guess. it will be single digit. if you force me to guess today, i would say low single digits. i think he can write off african-american voters as he's written them off. ds as they have written him off. he hopes to do better with other minority categories, but i don't see him doing well with any of them. he had not doing well with latinos, the best poll with latinos show him in the teens,
doing eight to ten points worse than mitt romney who had a terrible performance with latinos. >> yeah. david, some said that wasn't an outreach to african-americans, it was an outreach to appeal to suburban women. >> yeah. >> was that a failed message as well, the way he did it? >> it didn't work. >> it didn't work? >> yeah. got to go to his point about latinos, one of the reasons for the colorado number which is so high, she has a big lead, has to go into the latino thing. the common -- the wisdom among republicans is the candidate to win on the republican side needs 40%, 40% of the latino vote. he has less than half of that right now. >> let a put this, you talked about the battleground states, both of you said that's where the rubber meets the road here. >> sure does. >> this is florida today, hillary clinton is up by five points, 46 to 41. in ohio trump leads by five points, 47 to clinton's 42. both are key states and important on this -- you know,
trying to win the electoral votes but who has the edge here? can she make up the difference or he make up the difference in this short amount of time? >> in ohio? >> yeah. >> it is probably one of the hardest states, i think she can but it is -- you know, right now it seems doubtful. >> lebron james, does that help at all, larry? >> does what help? >> lebron james endorsing her? >> oh, lebron james. it may help to get out the vote for clinton and the african-american community and elsewhere. lebron james has been elevated to sainthood in ohio. but i think it's tough. it is not as bad for her in ohio as it is in iowa. that's probably trump's best battleground state, but, you know, if i had to guess today i would say he would get iowa and ohio and maybe one of the other really close ones. i don't know if it is north carolina or something
else, but she's got -- she's got the other ones, and i've watched the polling averages. they really haven't changed that much. people focus on outlier polls. people get a poll and say, oh, it is tied. if you look at the averages, it really isn't tied. >> over the weekend he mocked hillary clinton walking to her car when she had pneumonia, said that he thought she cheated on bill clinton and there were a number of things over the weekend. do you think bringing up the infidelities and the way he is going off script, what is going on? what happened with the great messaging and the great weeks he had in early september? >> that's the great mystery. he had the momentum going into the debate and it has been downhill since the debate. i don't know. he seems to be once again angry at people around him. when he is angry he doesn't listen to them, he doesn't trust them. you know, some stories came out from inside his team saying he wasn't prepared, he wouldn't listen and so forth.
he was really angry at that. ever since then he has been off his game, at least off the game of winning. can we still talk about what's -- >> yeah, i was going to say october surprise. we were talking about october surprise and this tax thing seems to be one of them, but there can be an october surprise happening in a short amount of time from julian assange. >> absolutely. julian assange of wikileaks hates hillary clinton, he wants to destroy her if he can. there have been all sorts of rumors he was going to be putting out information this week that would be very, very destructive for her campaign. we'll have to see what happens, but larry said as we were coming on looked like it was going to be at 4:00 a.m. >> it is going to happen shortly, at 4:00 a.m. our time? >> 4:00 a.m. our time. >> what do you know about this? >> will be in berlin by video, you know. look, david is right, you don't know what is in there. maybe it is something serious, but, you know, whenever i hear people say something is coming out that's going to absolutely destroy the candidacy of x, i am
a little skeptical. >> but it could backfire. what if it is traced to russian hacking or something? couldn't it backfire, larry? >> of course it could backfire. i mean you're going to have two stories. one, whatever the revelation is, and then how did this information come to be? it is already obvious that the russians want trump and they're cooperating in various ways and producing information that helps trump. putin, last time i checked he had a 6% favorable rating among american voters, that's 6%. single digit. >> it is interesting. when you watch the spin you see supporters of donald trump saying the "new york times" obtained this illegally, they should be prosecuted but a different story when it comes to julian assange, right? >> that's right. and to be clear the "new york times" is under no legal obligation to protect the material, it is the person who
gave it to them who committed the illegal act. giving somebody's tax returns out like that, and of course there are rumors are swirling, who is it, looks like it came out of an inner circle of a small number of people. >> when asked by several different reporters including our own brian stelter, saying, are you going to do more? they played coyly saying, we don't know, stay tuned. >> stay tuned. >> i appreciate it. when we come back, donald trump says losing a billion dollars in one year is enough to avoid paying federal taxes for 18 years, he said that was brilliant, but are voters buying that? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
donald trump claiming he has brilliantly used the tax laws to his own benefit. here to discuss "washington post" reporter david farrenholt and william cohen, author of "the price of silence." and contribute oog editor to ""vanity fair"". william cohen first, the taxes published in the "new york times" showed donald trump lost a billion dollars nearly, could be enough to avoid paying taxes for 18 years. here is how he explained it tonight. >> the unfairness of the tax laws is unbelievable. it is something i have been talking about for a long time, you have heard me talking about it, despite being a big beneficiary i must admit. i am a big beneficiary.
but you're more important than my being a beneficiary so we're going to straighten it out and make it fair for everybody. >> can he claim to have lost -- can he lose a billion dollars in one year and say he is a brilliant businessman? >> i don't think so. i think this puts the lie to the central tenet of his campaign, which is that he is great businessman and that he can turn this country around, he can make this country great again. trust him to do it, as he said at the convention, i think this completely blows up that whole premise of his campaign. you cannot be a good businessman -- i worked on wall street close to 20 years. you cannot be a good businessman and go bankrupt six times, six times, and claim to be a great businessman. >> his argument though and from his supporters, the argument is that he's the comeback kid, he is a genius for coming back and turning around. there have been lots of people throughout history in business who have turned things around. >> he hasn't really turned
around any of his businesses that ended up going bankrupt and cost creditors billions of dollars. none of his casinos have, quote, turned around. he has cleverly bought businesses out of bankruptcy like mara lago, turned "the apprentice" to his advantage, yes. he is a world class marketer and has genius when it comes to politics because he has gotten people to believe he cares about them, people as van jones says who have a legitimate beef, people who are supporting him that have a legitimate beef with what happened in the system in the last ten years. but the mistake, the fallacy is they believe that trump, this billionaire who lives on fifth avenue, who flies around on his own 757 will actually help them, who takes advantage of the tax code after losing nearly a billion dollars. >> we are talking about his personal tacks not his business taxes. does this claim that he has a
fiduciary responsibility to pay as little as possible stand up to scrutiny? >> well, he is not responsible to shareholders the way somebody owning a public corporation is. trump owns a lot of his businesses out right so he's talking about a fiduciary responsibility to himself and his family and employees. i guess it is one that trump is following a fiduciary duty to pay as little taxes as possible, and, two, he is outraged by this system that allows him to serve his fiduciary duties so well. it's hard to make both of those arguments at the same time. >> 86% of registered voters said paying taxes is a civic duty, 57% said they think he is hiding something. here is what hillary clinton said today. >> while millions of american families, including mine and yours were working hard, paying our fair share, it seems he was contributing nothing to our nation. imagine that. not fair, nothing for pell grants to help kids go to college, nothing for veterans, nothing for our military.
david, how do you respond to that? what do you think? >> i think it is a powerful argument, and i think that, you know, usually the argument from folks that pay little income taxes, the conservative argument is, yes, but the government is not the only way to help people, you can give to charity, you can have other ways to have your wealth help society and solve ills he says he is concerned about. it is hard to say i pay little in taxes but he gives little to charity, so he is not helping in the way conservatives usually advocate. >> william. >> david is right. he was charming when he defended what he did and he said he was the beneficiary, but the fact of the matter is he may not have paid taxes for 18 -- he may not have paid taxes for close to 22 years now. the fact that he argued earlier tonight that 1995 was a very tough year for real estate developers, well, that's not true either. i mean the economy was growing quite well at that point.
'90, '91, '92, those were tough years. by '95, i mean he can't -- he has not explained or we don't have any idea how he possibly lost this -- >> that's my question. how did he lose that much money? you don't know how? >> no. probably has partnerships, it was a pass through, some might have been extinguishment of debt he got a benefit from that has been explained very well i think earlier tonight on cnn. so we don't know. i mean obviously it isn't a loss out of his pocket. so by not paying taxes all of these years presumably he has enriched himself. the rest of us don't have this tax benefit. if we have a loss in any given year we're not real estate developers, we can't take this benefit. so he benefits and then he claims to have sympathy and empathy for working class american who has lost his job and somehow he is going to benefit -- help them get out of their predicament. >> you don't see that happening? >> i don't see that. >> david, i have to commend you. you have been doing tremendous work on your investigation, especially on the trump foundation. you reported trump was operating
the foundation illegally in new york, and today new york's attorney general said please take further notice trump foundation must immediately cease soliciting contributions or engaging in any other fundraising activities in new york. do you think he expected his foundation would come under this scrutiny? >> it is hard for me to know what he expected. certainly it would not have come under this scrutiny had he not run for president. in fact, he got through most of the presidential run without it coming under this couldn't of scrutiny. the thing that caused the attorney general to effectively shut down his foundation's fundraising was sort of an obscure issue i think people even in the new york attorney general's office didn't know about until recently. >> this is a response from the trump foundation. it says, this is for you, william. while we remain concerned about the political motives but behind the investigation, the trump found intends to cooperate fully with the investigation. because this is an ongoing legal matter, the trump foundation will not comment further at this
time. does this take away the ability to attack the clinton foundation now? >> eric sneaderman's? >> trump >> no, trump will say whatever he wants to say. i mean this charge that somehow eric schneiderman is politically motivated -- >> who supports hillary clinton. >> yes, but donald has had a beef with eric schneiderman for years now because i wrote an article in "vanity fair" about schneiderman come after trump university, and donald trump told me he was doing this for political reasons because he came to solicit a donation and donald trump wouldn't give him one. so as a retaliation, he went after him for trump university. so it is hogwash. donald trump violated the laws with regard to trump university. i assume as a result of exposure from david's excellent reporting he probably violated laws related to the trump foundation
and eric schneiderman is doing his job by going after him, not being afraid. >> david, you know the thing is coming out with julian assange supposedly in the wee hours, do you have idea what it might be? have you heard anything? >> no, i have heard nothing. i'm as curious as everybody else. >> thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. straight ahead, rudy guilliani praises donald trump as an economic genius, but did he hit hillary clinton with a sexist slam? the world's most exciting technology... ...doesn't go on your wrist. ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with class-leading horsepower. sweet sun no artificial flavors. philadelphia® strawberry. rich..., creamy... ...and delicious. nothing else tastes like philadelphia®
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donald trump telling supporters tonight that he understands the tax laws better than anyone. here to discuss betsy mccoy, former lieutenant governor of new york who is trump supporter. cnn political analyst john avalon, editor in chief of the daily beast. did jennifer gran holm, the former governor of michigan who is supporting hillary clinton. good evening to all of you. okay. this is what donald trump said last september in a primary debate at the reagan presidential library. >> i know people that are making a tremendous amount of money and paying virtually no tax, and i think it is unfair. >> so, betsy, today he says doing that was brilliant.
which is it? >> well, the fact is since 1918 the tax code has encouraged investors, whether they're building big buildings like donald trump or opening a corner drugstore or buying stocks, to take risk. that's the purpose of this tax loss carryforward that donald trump used. he lost a tremendous amount of money, almost a billion dollars, and he spread it out, the "new york times" is guessing, over the following years. when i read the "new york times" article -- >> i understand, i want -- >> which was it, was it brilliant as he said now,. >> >> i would say complying with the law, and millions of people across the country use exactly the same tax provision. they apply it in the same way. they have a big loss one year and they're allowed to apply it to future income to reduce their tax. >> is it a shame or brilliant? where does he stand on this? >> i would say it is just the norm. it is the norm. if you go to an accountant and you have a big loss, that's how it is treated. >> there's nothing normal of course about losing $900 million
and getting a write-off for it. that's in every way extraordinary and unrelatable. the clip you just played is the key of it, right, because he condemned this kind of behavior in a debate because it plays well with primary voters and now he has been forced to confront an uncomfortable reality. >> these are the times, at least a couple of them, this is from april of 2012, september of 2015, barack obama who wants to raise our taxes only pays 20.5% on $790,000 salary. do as i say, not as i do. he says hedge fund guys, gals have to pay higher taxes asap. they are paying practically nothing. we must reduce taxes for middle class. this is a story nine times he has talked about people taking advantage or not paying taxes. you have to admit -- governor, i'm going to get to you. >> yes. >> it does seem, this is for betsy, that he is contradicting himself, he is being a hypocrite about this. you must admit that? >> it certainly seems as if at
least in the issue of the tax loss carry forward, that's what the story is about, that the "new york times" is trying to shame him. there's all of this innuendo he did something if not illegally at least morally defective. >> why are they shaming him by showing the tax returns? it is like saying -- >> no, read the article. it says families in this income category often use this. they talk about it as cheating when in fact the "new york times" itself didn't pay any tax in 2014 because they used a very similar tax provision. >> but he is running for president. >> that's right. are you suggesting that businesspeople should ineligible to run for president? >> i'm not saying that. i'm suggesting when you run for president everything is out there. >> right. >> and since the 1970s every president has released -- the person running for president has released their tax returns. >> that's a different issue. >> that's part of the scrutiny that goes along with it. >> what you're saying -- >> ol on. and you can't say, because
the "new york times" has a story that happens not to be favorable -- or if they put the tax records out there, they're out to get him. >> no, because every day from now until election day would be another controversy about another part of his tax returns. businessmen have tax returns that look different from politicians. >> in january of 2012, the right thing to do, you live by the tweet and die by the tweet. he is a hypocrite on this issue. >> governor, i swear i'm getting to you. don't worry about it. the criticism from the trump side, are you guys or him going into hillary clinton territory when you say the coverup is worse than the crime, she is not transparent? >> i heard mrs. clinton say, why isn't he paying his fair share? what is your fair share other than what the law says you owe? there's a question. what is your fair share other than what the law says you owe? >> how would you know that unless you release the tax returns? governor, go on. what do you want to say? >> thanks, i appreciate it. i actually brought the exact same article from nick confessore which showed the nine tweets donald trump has made about how horrible it is that wealthy people don't pay their fair share or how horrible it is
that barack obama is spending taxpayer money on a speech when, in fact, well guess who's secret service are paid for by taxpayer money, guess whose roads are paid for when he drives his limousine on them with taxpayer money? who is paying? we are subsidizing this billion air. the guy emptying the crash can in the trump tower is paying for the cops patrolling the beat in front of trump tower. there is an issue of overall fairness, and i ronically, the tax plan donald trump proposes which he says he can fix this does not address this issue and only makes it worse, exacerbating income inequality, eliminating the estate tax, reducing taxes or eliminating them for capital gains. he is making this problem much worse, all the while while he is mouthing how terrible it is. >> again, we have -- listen, from the reporting, from the
"new york times" reporting you can't say he did anything illegal. that's not what they're saying, not what anyone is saying. but, listen, betsy mccoy criticized the reporting, as did rudy guilliani yesterday. here's what he said about the times yesterday. >> don't you think a man with this kind of economic genius is better for the united states than a woman, and the only thing she ever produced is a lot of work for the fbi checking out her e-mail. >> he is a genius and better than a woman. what is your reaction, governor? >> first of all, how is the man a genius when he lost a billion dollars in one year? who knows what the other years are showing, number one. you know -- >> he says he is the comeback kid. >> i don't know. i don't know. how do we know? you're a legend, how come we haven't seen his taxes? who knows what he's been doing if he's been living off the largesse of the taxpayers, by using the bankruptcy code to eliminate his debtors or claiming tax subsidies, going after tax subsidies when we are the ones paying for them. i'm not sure. he is excellent at manipulating
the code to his benefit, that's for sure. don, you were asking about guilliani's comment there, and it is so hard -- you know, i have no idea if that was a slam at women or just an off-the-cuff statement, but certainly i would say that the team on the donald trump side has not been doing very well with women and certainly his past week is not going to do anything more to shore up his support among women. >> here is what the new cnnrcc poll shows 70% of voters believe he should release his tax returns, 57% think trump is hiding something. john, do you think that number will resonate with the campaign at all? >> it should but it won't because this is a campaign driven largely by self-interest. that's the larger point here. look, what donald trump did apparently certainly is not illegal, no one is alleging that. the question is whether it is ethical, especially for someone running for president, especially for someone whose real estate empire has largely been built on what folks on the
right have been called crony capitalism. getting tax breaks and at the benefit of taxpayers. he has had it both ways. it goes to the heart of a lot of the credibility of his candidacy which is i'm such a successful businessman, i can do for america what i did for atlantic city. turns out it might not have been such a good thing. >> i don't know if you were on, but i remember saying several times months ago, why doesn't he put out his tax returns and say i know better than anybody else because look at what i was able to do with our tax code and it needs reform. there's a sound bite somewhere, i have said it, but why didn't you guys say that, betsy? >> i'm going to give you credit for that. >> i'm saying it was a perfect story for me, which leads people to believe maybe there's something else or something bigger that is hiding in his tax returns than what was just uncovered. we'll discuss. we will be right back.
jennifer gran holm. can i ask you about the response, betsy, from the trump surrogates because i never thought i would see rudy guilliani or betsy mccoy doing back flips trying to explain this. would you have used the same language? genius? >> i would not have used genius and brilliant because it is such a widely used provision in the tax code, there's nothing genius or brilliant about it, but i would say it is an essential part of the tax code and we shouldn't eliminate it because it encourages people to take risks, creating job. >> let's talk about eric schneiderman basically giving trump's charity a cease and desist. >> i have got it right here. >> what's your reaction? >> my reaction is for the top law enforcement person in the state to sign on to the hillary clinton campaign advisory board and turn around and launch an investigation of her opponent is unethical, and he should have recused himself. many people should calling for
his resignation because of this conflict of interest. someone else should be looking into this. the timing of this is also suspicious. it could be that administrative errors were made, but i will tell you this, the same attorney general identified $225 million in donations from foreign governments to the clinton foundation that were not reported and contrary -- >> doesn't that negate your argument? >> contrary to new york state law and did nothing about it. did nothing about it. >> john, i want you to respond to it, but i want you to put up the statement from the trump campaign. while we remained concerned about the political motives behind ag schneiderman's investigation, the trump foundation nevertheless intends to cooperate fully with the investigation. >> it is troubling whenever you get judicial actors seeming to have partisan motives.
or motives that could be impugned. this is a problem of their own making. this foundation, much vaunted, under scrutiny they could have anticipated, seems not to have filed basic forms. according to the attorney general they have to open their books as of october 15th. everything we have seen to date would suggest they're not ready for that kind of scrutiny in terms of disbursements and payouts, and it will be a distraction to the campaign, but it is because they resisted transparency for so long they find themselves in this situation. >> politically motivated, governor? >> no, the facts are the facts. they didn't register. they're supposed to register. i think the failure to register is less damaging than the actual non-existence of a charity, meaning that this charity was not in fact a charity at all. it is a vehicle for funneling stuff to donald trump to be able to pay his legal bills which is not legal or to buy six-foot portraits of himself that he's hanging on the walls of one of his resorts. these are -- and not to mention
the donation that he made to pam bondi to get her to stop investigating trump university. this is not a charity at all. this is a -- where he takes other people's money to satisfy his own -- his own vanity. >> do you want -- >> that's part of the larger problem of what we've seen, is that donald trump's lifestyle basically seems to have been funded by a series of enter connected shell corporations through which he funnels money. you can take a massive loss, ta a deduction, have low reported income and live like a king. once the transparency is put in place with the foundation, you could see a lot of troubling, hard-to-explain things, a charity, a foundation that does not seem to be charitable but instead seems to be devoted to self-enrichment. if that's the case, you know, this is a problem of their making. >> i don't think that's the case. >> it may not be the case. >> let me point out to give you a parallel here, the clinton
foundation failed to report 1100 donations from foreign governments and entities that mrs. clinton's foundation was required to report under her agreement with the state department when she took office there, and also under irs regulations. 111 omissions. so they had to refile four years of taxes for the clinton foundation. here is the one sentence in the cover letter that struck me as so apt here. because foundations, like people, make mistakes, they are refiling four years of taxes. i would say -- >> isn't that what governor granholm just said? >> yes. >> we are all flawed. we are all broken. >> because of an administration error -- foundation in new york state it is an overwhelming paperwork, if they forgot to file with the charity office -- >> didn't you just give her that, governor? >> i'm saying this is an administrative error and it would be improper for eric schneiderman not to go after it because his office regulates charity. i'm going at the underlying
purpose, and to compare the two foundations is so disparate, tell me one person the trump foundation whose life has been saved? under the clinton foundation 50,000 children every year in kenya and ethiopia are saved. tell me one drug whose price has been reduced because of the trump foundation. because of the clinton foundation 11.5 million people now have access to aids drugs and to lower cost malaria. this is not a foundation, the trump foundation. the clinton foundation has done remarkable work. >> i would say that the trump foundation also does good. they made a sizable contribution to a veteran's organization in florida. the trouble with the clinton foundation is it was used as a way of reaping in huge amounts of money from foreign governments, companies and individuals while mrs. clinton was secretary of state. >> you deny the good the clinton foundation has done. >> absolutely not. >> you can't argue with that. >> absolutely not.
both of these institutions probably have their worth and good points. >> is it fair to compare the two because the clinton foundation is much larger than the trump foundation. >> and rated four stars by all of the charity review organizations. >> i think the clinton foundation ripped off the united states government and the people of the united states by swapping favors in return for donations to the foundation. >> that is so not true, it is donald trump talking points. it is such a lie. >> i have to say that's an accusation that's not been proven. >> you bet. >> thank you very much. when we come back, it has been a week of bad news for donald trump, but he has bounced back before. can he do it again? afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine.
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f f . 35 days, 35 days until election day. things are not exactly going donald trump's way. here to discuss frank rich, writer at large for "new york magazine." frank, 35 days, can't come soon enough. >> i know. shoot me now. >> let's talk about the latest election news, trump has had a rough week to say the least, but he has been down before and snapped back. do you see it happening again?
>> look, anything can happen. this julian assange thing may be smoke and mirrors, but anything can happen. it is crazy. look, after much of his terrible behavior, hillary clinton was still up only two or three points. it is obviously, as you reported earlier tonight, improved for her but it is hardly a done deal. you know, i don't think we can shut the door on anything happening. i do think trump's behavior is becoming more and more erratic, to put a gentile word on it. >> he had a couple of good weeks but after the debate it went south. i want to play this for you because it is a rally in colorado tonight where he got into hot water discussing recent racial tensions. take a look at this. we're a divided nation, and each week it seems we are getting more and more divided, with race riots on our streets on a monthly basis. somebody said don't call them race riots, but that's what they
are. frank, what is your reaction? >> certainly race is at the heart of some of the disruptions in american cities over the past couple of years, but on a monthly daysis, wh monthly basis, what does he know about it. it is the same thing he says about everything, everything is terrible, america is going to hell, i will make it great again. that's his message, doesn't matter the subject. let's talk about the polls, maybe some of his message is maybe bouncing off, you know, certainly individuals or certain groups that he needs. this is the latest poll out today, shows that hillary clinton has a five point lead over donald trump after the debate. what does she need to do in order to maintain that lead, and what can he do to change things for him? >> i think, you know, she's a somewhat lackluster campaigner, but she was very good in the debate, particularly in contrast to him. i think she should just keep doing what she is doing and let him act out. i mean that crazy thing he did
when he imitated her having trouble getting to the car because she had pneumonia, and look at this debate coming up sunday night, the next presidential debate. it is a town hall format. that means trump can roam around the stage, not something he is used to doing, has to interact with all sorts of people, not just moderators. if i were hillary clinton i would stand back and let him put on a show. >> yeah. and then for him you would say probably stick to the teleprompter, correct? >> right. but you can't do that at a town hall format in a debate, unfortunately for him. you know, in this week's issue of "new york magazine" you take a look back at a timeline there and here is what you theerize willed in the magazine. you said that of all of the storms that railed america in obama era, few, if any, have been more consistently under estimated or more persistent than the great populous boost, the tidal wave of grassroots
rage that rose out of the, occupy wall street, the bernie sanders revolution and donald trump insurgency. for much of the way the elites of both political parties were slow to grasp what was happening and barack obama was no exception. explain, what do you mean by that? what i mean is now everyone recognizes there is this tremendous wave of discontent. it has taken different forms and found different champions, but both parties failed to recognize it. obama sort of, you know, was sort of laughed about the tea party, and like the rest of us laughed off donald trump when he started running for president. the republican party did the same thing. when the republican party nominated mitt romney in 2012 you could hear a tom radio a very unhappy republican base that would knock out all of trump's opponents this year. it is a big issue for the
country, and what is scary to me know matter who is elected i'm not sure our system is able to cope with it ordeal with it or help assauge it in any way. >> it is interesting a lot of establishment republicans don't support donald trump, he hasn't been conservative for most of his time. he said things that lead people to believe he is more liberal than conservative, yet he still has grassroot support and big support among conservatives, among your every day conservatives. >> right. i think it is hard to characterize trump by any ideology because he doesn't have one. his opinions change from day-to-day, could be liberal one minute, conservative the other. he likes putin. on abortion he can have three opinions in two days. so i don't think -- i think that people in the republican establishment, those who still are supporting them including the congressional leaders of the republican party, hope he is
going to win. that's why they're supporting, they hope he's going to win and they don't want to stand up to a base that loves him and that voted for him in the primary. so they're intimidated by their own voters. you also mentioned in the article i spoke about a moment ago that the same rage that fuelled trump's movement also fuelled bernie sanders' supporters. if that's true, would bernie sanders have posed a bigger challenge to trump than hillary clinton had he become the nominee? >> i doubt it because he is from a small state, he is a classic liberal whereas hillary clinton is more of a centrist. i think hillary clinton and bernie sanders are apples and oranges, and she has a challenge now. she has to get his voters to turn out for her, and it has proven quite a challenge, but i don't think he would necessarily have done better. for one thing, he have very little support among african-americans. >> thank you, frank rich. always a pleasure. >> great talking to you, don.
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that's in the wake of one piece of bad news after another for the trump campaign. the "new york times" reporting trump wrote off $916 million in losses in 1995. and new york's attorney general ordering the charity foundation to stop fundraising saying it is in violation of state law. meanwhile, questions on how women show how they were treated behind the scenes on "the apprentice." live from new york, it's "saturday might." did alec baldwin name his trump impression? >> he broke it, he and obama stole my microphone, they took it to kenya and broke it and now it is broken. let's get to our new polls tonight. cnn's tom foreman has it for us tom. >> reporter: wt