tv CNN Newsroom With Carol Costello CNN October 5, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PDT
can't do that. >> because he tripped up on the favorite part. not the foreign leader part the favorite part is what tripped him up. >> he needs to put more emphasis on that part of the answer. >> and more hair gel. thanks so much for joining us for this special edition of "new day." time now for "newsroom" with carol castillo. take it away. >> you get to do car pool karaoke i want to do it with you, alisyn. >> that's a deal. >> all the same. >> absolutely, we're sending word out now. thanks, guys, we'll see you later. "newsroom" starts now. and good morning. i'm carol costello. thank you so much for joining me. the vice presidential debate between tim kaine and mike pence, lots of jabs, insults and interruptions but the number one job for the two men, do not hurt their own campaign. by most accounts, mission accomplished. >> the thought of donald trump as commander in chief scares us
to death. >> the campaign of hillary clinton and tim kaine has been an avalanche of insults. >> the trump plan is a different plan. it's a you're fired plan. >> i appreciate the you're hired, you're fired thing, senator, you use that a whole lot and i think your running mate used a lot of predone lines. >> okay, so there's a lot to cover as usual. we're following every angle for you. phil mattingly breaks down the fiery debate. sunlen serfaty has the fallout. phil, let's start with you. >> carol, remember at one point this was supposed to be the boring debate between as one person said dull versus duller. not so much. look the candidates had very clea goals and objectives going into this debate. they just took a rather combative pathway to get there. >> i must have hit a nerve here. >> hotly contentious from the start. >> i can't imagine how governor pence can defend the insult-driven, selfish me style of donald trump. >> reporter: the vice presidential debate becoming a night of whose candidate is more insulting.
>> you and hillary clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. >> reporter: tim kaine repeatedly putting mike pence on the defensive, using donald trump's own words. >> he's called women's slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. he went after john mccain a p.o.w. and said he wasn't a hero. >> reporter: words pence didn't directly defend. >> when donald trump says women should be punished or mexicans are rapists and criminals or john mccain is not a hero, he is showing you who he is. >> senator, you whipped out that mexican thing, again. look -- >> can you defend it? >> there are criminal aliens in this country, tim. >> reporter: instead, trying to take a similar tack against hillary clinton. >> he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that hillary clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. >> reporter: trump's running mate at times flat out denying statements that the billionaire
has made in the past. >> donald trump and mike pence have said he's a great leader. donald trump has business. >> i respect putin. he's a strong leader. >> donald trump's claim that nato is obsolete and we need to get rid of nato is so dangerous. >> nato is obsolete. o has to be rejiggered, rechanged, for the better. >> reporter: kaine frequently interrupting pence. >> senator, let me talk about -- >> this is my time. >> he says -- >> hold on a second, governor. >> this is my time, senator. >> attempting to prove trump is unfit for office by quoting ronald reagan. >> he said the problem with nuclear proliferation is that some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. and i think that's who governor pence's running mate is. exactly who president reagan warned us about. >> senator, that is beneath you and hillary clinton. that is pretty low. >> reporter: kaine hammering pence on donald trump's refusal to release his taxes.
>> he said if i run for president, i will release my taxes. he has broken his first promise. second he stood on this stage -- >> he hasn't broken that promise. >> he stood on the stage last week and when hillary said you haven't been paying taxes, he said, that makes me smart. it's smart not to pay for our military. it's smart not to pay for veterans and smart not to pay for teachers. >> his tax returns show that he went through a very difficult time, but he used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. >> reporter: as pence touted the message that trump advisors want their own candidate to make, they represent change. >> what you all just heard out there is more taxes. $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits, more debt, more government. and if you think that's all working, then you look at the other side of the table. >> reporter: both candidates asking americans to trust their candidate and distrust their opponent. >> we trust hillary clinton, my wife and i.
we trust her with the most important thing in our life. we have a son deployed overseas in the marine corps right now. we trust hillary clinton as president and commander in chief. the thought of donald trump as commander in chief, scares us to death. >> there is a reason why people question the trustworthness of hillary clinton, because they're paying attention. >> reporter: the fiery debate sending with a testy exchange on abortion and faith. >> stand with great compassion for the sanctity of life. we can create a culture of life. >> why don't you trust women to make this choice for them selves? we can encourage people to support life, of course we can. but on fundamental issues of morality, we should let women make their own decisions. >> because there is -- >> and carol as you noted up top, mission accomplished. is probably the best way to describe how both of these candidates came out of this debate. tim kaine repeatedly bringing up donald trump's own words, exactly what the clinton
campaign wanted him to do. mike pence the poised, calm, steady figure on the ticket. something trump advisers afterwards were absolutely thrilled with. it's something you're going to hear i think repeatedly on the campaign trail from pence going forward here in virginia today. then pennsylvania later this afternoon. both candidates acquitting themselves well. now the question is, can their running mates do the same? carol? >> we'll see. phil mattingly reporting live for us this morning. thank you. even before the debate began you knew how the night would end. both campaigns would claim victory. here's the post-debate photo of donald trump calling mike pence. but here's a twist, campaign insiders tell cnn that trump could be upset that pence actually did too good of a job. we'll have more on that in a moment. and hillary clinton also took to twitter praising her running mate and saying, quote, lucky to have a partner like tim kaine who stood up for our shared vision tonight instead of trying to deny it. cnn's sunlen serfaty live in philadelphia where kaine holds an event later today with more on that. good morning.
>> good morning, carol. there's one thing that we know about donald trump is that this is a man that does not like to be upstaged. and at least one senior trump campaign official telling cnn that the fact that mike pence had such a solid debate performance last night isn't sitting well with donald trump. that said the trump campaign, of course, is trying to capitalize on mike pence's debate performance last night, and also trying to make an issue out of tim kaine's aggressiveness last night up on stage where he interrupted many times at many, many points throughout the debate. that's something that team clinton is trying to spin as a positive. here's reaction from both campaigns. >> donald trump and mike pence are very different feel. they have different stiles of debating. i can't imagine secretary clinton is happy with her running mate tim kaine tonight. he interrupted governor pence when he wasn't interrupting the moderator. he was interrupting governor pence. >> i think he was the aggressor tonight. i think that he did a great job
in explaining what that he and hillary wanted to do for the american people. i think that he challenged governor pence to defend the kind of hateful campaign that donald trump has run. and time and again, he -- governor pence took a dive. >> now, on this issue of tim kaine's many interruptions last night, although the clinton campaign is trying to celebrate it as an aggressiveness that he brought up there last night, he did receive some negative attention. check out this tweet from republican governor mike huckabee. he tweets, quote, tim kaine seems to think a vp serves the same function for a president as a yappy chihuahua does for a socialite's purse. those certainly some pretty sassy words, carol, and certainly not the narrative that the clinton campaign wants coming out of their only debate. carol? >> those were some pretty sassy words from mike huckabee. thank you very much, sunlen serfaty reporting live.
let's talk about all of this. with me lynn fleet washington bureau chief of the chicago sun times, paul singer, and cnn's senior political reporter. welcome to all of you. okay so you know i always like to start with the big picture, manu, so we can all agree that mike pence won, and tim kaine lost. right? >> mm-hmm. >> but does that mean there's a seismic shift in how voters may cast their ballot in november? >> no, i don't think so. i mean at the margins this may make a difference. i think that cnn poll and other polls show that maybe there are some voters who may be more likely to vote for the top of the ticket based on what happened last night. the reason why this is effective for mike pence is that he effectively changed the narrative. remember where we were in this presidential campaign just a week ago? donald trump was on the downslide. he had a rocky debate performance. he was feuding with miss universe. really stepping in one mistake after another. mike pence, with a solid debate performance, making the argument for his ticket, effectively being able to reset the narrative going forward, and
hope that donald trump can take the ball and run and not fumble on sunday. >> we'll see. so lynn, obviously someone told tim kaine to like go after and attack donald trump all night long. so, was tim kaine actually trying to win this debate? or was he trying to just bash trump? >> well, i think he was trying to do both. but his tactic, carol, of this constant interruptions is a tactic that you use at your risk and i think he paid for it when we look at the the -- the public reaction to it. carol, it's not that he was wrong on his facts. pence was. but you get scored in these debates on style, as well as substance, and that is -- was a big help for mike pence coming out ahead on this. but, the main thing is, as you said, in the beginning, the first job both of them did well was first do no harm. and as the days go by it will become more obvious, and i think the clinton campaign will exploit how pence did not defend
donald trump at key moments, and how he just sat silently when kaine even overaggressively put out in front of him things that trump said. and he said he didn't -- >> funny you should mention that because that was my next point. mike pence did not defend his candidate in what he likes to say in his broad shouldered way, he deflected, he denied, or he simply broke ranks. one clear example was what mike pence said on the subject of syria and how the united states should deal with bashar al assad. let's listen. >> the provocations by russia need to be met with american strength. and if russia chooses to be involved and continue, i should say, to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in aleppo the united states of america should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the assad regime, to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place in aleppo.
>> so, paul, that's markedly different from what mr. trump this, right? he wants to work with russia, and how it reacts to isis within syria, and especially bashar al assad. >> well, trump has said at times he'd be willing to use force in syria as well. i think the line that really caught my attention the whole night was at one point, when asked about abortion and punishing women for abortion, mike pence said basically, look, donald trump is not a professional politician, so he sometimes doesn't say exactly what he means. and i think the point is, is well taken. that pence is the political policy guy who sort of understands the sensitivities and difficulties of getting involved in syria, of what a war footing might mean for the united states. that's not really donald trump's role in this ticket. donald trump's role is to express the sort of general outrage with where america is going. pence is the guy who brings the sort of sol id, conservative
policy chop to the table. >> but, but, but it's so clearly different from what -- i'll give you another example, here's what mike pence said on nuclear weapons. and then we have trump's stand on nuclear weapons. and, let's just listen and then we'll all talk after. >> let me tell you what will really make the middle east dangerous. donald trump's idea that more nations should get nuclear weapons. >> north korea has nukes. japan has a problem with that. >> more nations should get nuclear weapons? >> he never said that. >> all right maybe they would, in fact be better off if they defend themselves from north korea -- >> with nuclears? >> including with nukes, yes. including with nukes. >> so manu, i don't even know what to make of it. because mike pence broke with donald trump's policies so many times. or didn't explain donald trump's policies. or kind of deflected, you know, when, when tim kaine kept saying you know what about all these insults to women?
mike pence just changed the subject. >> yeah, i mean -- >> what are we to make of that? >> mike pence is in a really difficult, if not impossible position running with donald trump. i mean donald trump said a lot of things off the cuff, without coming up with clear policy ideas. particularly during the primary campaign. he's been a little bit more focused in the general election campaign. and he's been on both sides of a lot of the issues, too, including on whether or not women should be punished for having an abortion. first donald trump said yes and then he put out two policy statements afterwards clarifying his position, confusing where he actually stands on that very issue. so, mike pence in a lot of ways had to try to reconcile that yesterday, and what he chose to do was -- >> you're saying mike pence actually knows that so he's just coming up with his own policies because he's not sure where his own candidate stands? >> it's possible. i can't read his mind. but it certainly seems that's one reason why he side stepped it or tried to assert what he thinks the trump/pence administration would do if they were elected. >> i have to do it there because you guys are going to come back
and talk some more about other interesting things that happened last night. still to come, calm and steady. pence wins praise for his debate performance. could trump learn a thing or two from his number two heading into next sunday's presidential debate? boost it's about moving forward not back. it's looking up not down. it's feeling up thinking up living up. it's being in motion... in body in spirit in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition, it's intelligent nutrition. with 26 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. it's choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it.
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hillary clinton off the campaign trail today, attending fund-raisers while donald trump campaigns in nevada. with just hours after the showdown between governor mike pence and senator tim kaine. kaine acting as the attack dog for hillary clinton. pence more measured, refusing to be baited. a style praised by republicans, many hoping that style will rub off on donald trump. >> when you've never run for office before, the idea of getting hit and pounded, and kind of acting like oh, no problem with that i'm going to ignore that. i'm going to talk about something else, is a very difficult thing to do. and it's difficult for anyone that would even watch this to be able to do. but, that's something that takes time, but i think that he's done
a great job and i think will do better. >> okay. so, imagine, donald trump sitting down and studying a tape of mike pence so he can effectively debate hillary clinton. will the earth move? let's talk about that. i'm joined again by lynn sweet, paul singer and manu raju. okay. so lynn i want to start with you. next sunday's presidential debate is critical for donald trump. if he doesn't win that debate is he toast? >> not yet because there will be one more debate where he could reclaim himself. and carol, if he's studying that tape, i suppose one thing he should learn from it is that you don't interrupt. and you have the discipline that mark pence and hillary clinton did. the rnc just a few minutes ago put out a video counting up the times, it was 72, that kaine interrupted. but the importance of sunday, though cannot be more overemphasized because trump makes mistakes all the time. you know, i'm sorry, when people say well he's new to the game.
he's not new anymore. it's been more than a year. i'm surprised they're still making excuses. and i'll be short in saying this one last thought here, it's not that he's not a new politician, so, he doesn't know how to talk right. i think it's he does say what he means. that's the problem. not that he doesn't say. >> okay. so manu, many people are saying that donald trump should sit down and study mike pence's performance. and here's exactly why. this is from "the wall street journal." quote, if donald trump could make the case for donald trump half as well as mike pence makes the case for donald trump the new york businessman would be well on his way to the white house. >> and that's exactly how a lot of republicans feel. listen to the way mike pence talked about republican values yesterday. he talked about compassionate conservatism if you will, smaller government, fewer regulations, lower taxes. you don't really hear donald trump talking about traditional republican issues on the campaign trail.
on top of that, mike pence was, in a lot of ways, unflappable. you didn't really see him get upset when he was being attacked. or donald trump was being attacked relentlessly. when donald trump gets attacked he gets very angry and says things off the cuff or does late night twitter storms. so in a lot of ways, republicans agree with that assessment. he can learn a lot from mike pence. >> paul, here's the thing, john king reported last night that trump may not be all that happy with pence's performance because pence upstaged trump as a better debater, and let's face it, pence did not ee fussively defend his running mate. will that interfere with trump taking away the positives from mike pence's performance? >> i don't think so. i mean, look, mike pence, if you close your eyes last night, you heard ronald reagan which is what donald trump needs. he needs republicans to remember that they -- he still represents the party of ronald reagan. it was the sound. it was the tone. it was the policies.
it was the fate, mr. pence was able to really express his faith which is something there was some question about how donald trump deals with religion and religious issues. i think ultimately maybe trump has some jealousy that pence is so good at this. i doubt it. the fact of the matter is that donald trump's strength is being donald trump. that's why he got where he is. i can't imagine he's going to try and remake his image between now and sunday for a debate with hillary clinton. he's going to continue being donald trump, the one who is reminding you that you're unhappy, you're unhappy with where the world is going. you're unhappy with america, and hillary clinton represents the status quo. that's all donald trump has to do. let mike pence be the adult in the room, as it were. that's good for him. >> yeah but here's the thing, lynn, sunday's debate is like a town hall. there's only going to be 40 people in the audience. there will be two moderators. the audience will ask questions of these candidates. they're going to want thoughtful answers. so will that be an added challenge for donald trump?
>> absolutely. i'm glad you brought up format. because this is a big deal. now, trump is used to being in a big room, feeding off the energy of a rally. when you have to look someone in the eye, who talks about perhaps a child who died in iraq or afghanistan, when you have to look someone in the eye who is a son or daughter of somebody who immigrated to the united states, and you try to talk to them without compassion, without any empathy, of which he could use more, then he will be in trouble. hillary clinton has done these town hall formats for decades, and she knows how to talk to -- no matter what you think of her, she knows how to talk to people. she is empathetic, and that is a skill that will be on display on sunday night. >> and, and, and you know the event yesterday manu when donald trump was talking about ptsd he was in an intimate setting. he was answering a question directly posed by an audience member. and he kind of messed up his
answer. >> he did. and that's the difference between donald trump who is on message, reading from a teleprompter, and the donald trump who doesn't read from a teleprompter. he says things off the cuff, sometimes not well formulated policy positions. and sometimes he will say something that will get him in trouble. politically. so, he does not able to rely on the teleprompter at -- during the debate and that's a challenge for him. that's why he actually has done well ahead of the first debate, because he was staying on message, and reading from a teleprompter. staying on script. >> not only that, paul, but this is a town hall. when he was answering that question from that retired veteran of war, right? and that veteran of war was asking about ptsd and donald trump said some guys return and they're not quite strong enough, they can't deal with what they saw over there like it was -- it wasn't -- it was an honest answer probably and he probably didn't mean to say it quite that way. and that really is the danger of these intimate town halls, isn't it? >> that's right. and also keep in mind you know,
donald trump is not chris christie. chris christie is the master of these town halls. where he can really engage your questioner one-on-one. you can really sort of bond with them over the concern they have raised. that is not trump's strong suit. now, the other thing is he can't get in to a sort of pointing finger pointing match with hillary clinton if you're supposed to be engaging the person in the sort of living room setting that is the town hall. so it's definitely strategically a big challenge for trump to be able to sth bond with the people in the audience, and still make his attack on hillary clinton at the same time. it can be very challenging and risky for a lot of candidates. we've seen candidates struggle before, i believe it was mccain who had this problem with barack obama. you know, not able to sort of meet the audience where they were the way obama was. so, it's going to be a real challenge. now of course he has an advantage as well that hillary clinton is not usually come across as the warmest person in the room, either, but still i think that his risk is becoming bombastic in a small room.
it sounds rude. it sounds loud. it sounds impolite. >> and remember, carol, also, during the iowa/new hampshire primaries this year where typically politicians do these type of town hall formats donald trump really didn't do much of that. he did big rallies. he doesn't really have the kind of practice that a lot of other politicians do by having these one-on-one settings, town hall settings, so it could be a very big challenge for him on sunday. >> i have to leave it there. thanks to all of you, lynn sweet, paul singer, and manu raju. thanks so much. still to come in the "newsroom," mandatory evacuations as hurricane matthew heads toward the united states. we'll have the latest for you next. we asked people to write down the things they love to do most on these balloons. travel with my daughter. roller derby. ♪ now give up half of 'em. do i have to? this is a tough financial choice we could face when we retire. but, if we start saving even just 1% more of our annual income... we could keep doing all the things we love.
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of south carolina. the governor there just issued a warning to citizens, basically she said get out for your own safety and the safety of others. let's listen. >> -- should leave or not i again will tell you that if you do not leave, you are putting a law enforcement officer or a national guardsman's life on the line when they have to go back and get you. so we are trying to be extremely cautious. our goal is to make sure that no lives are lost, that people get moved out safely and that they get moved back safely. and so that's where we're going to go with the plan. but we will also have a press conference this afternoon and continue to inform the public on changes, and things as the storm moves we will continue to let you know. >> can you give -- >> so that's the south carolina governor, florida also bracing for a direct hit as hurricane matthew takes aim at the u.s. coast. >> i cannot emphasize it enough that everyone in our state must prepare now for a direct hit. that means people have less than
24 hours left to prepare, evacuate, and shelter. having a plan in place could mean the difference between life and death. when it comes to a storm of this magnitude. >> right now the category 3 storm is on track to possibly make landfall friday morning. president obama canceling his florida trip today. he's meeting with fema officials very soon. 1 million people along the coast are under evacuation orders. lines for gas stretching around the block in miami. as homeowners board up windows, in georgia. check out the store chefs completely bare, people are preparing. at least seven people have died after winds and flooding batter the caribbean, so please, please take caution and leave as you're governors have suggested. meteorologist chad myers is standing by. but let's head out to cuba and cnn's patrick oppmann. what's going down there, patrick? >> good morning, carol. people here are beginning to dry
out and pick up from the aftermath of this storm. people here in sant ago yo de cuba, second largest city, feel like they missed the bullet yesterday when the storm just skirted the eastern tip of the island. but did not make full impact here as residents here have been warnd might happen. so there is today at least where i am a sense of relief. of course the area where the storm did hit in cuba, where the residents there it was pretty catastrophic. we're hearing that in certain areas dozens of homes were lost. but it appears so far at least at this point that cuban officials were successful in encouraging people to evacuate, no word on any fatalities so far but hundreds of people did lose the roofs of their houses we're told and other people lost their houses altogether. so it's going to be a long path for them to pick up, and roads are closed. powell power lines are down. over 100,000 people had to be evacuated. a tremendous effort to keep property and lives from being
lost but so far, here in cuba, it seems like they did a pretty good job of keeping people out of harm's way and the pickup begins now, carol. >> patrick oppmann many things. let's head to the weather center and chad myers. what can people expect in florida, georgia and south carolina? >> the storm is increasing, carol. it's getting stronger after it really got its stuffing taken out of it by cuba. of course cuba took the brunt of the storm. but the storm also took the brunt of cuba. so the whole thing kind of fell apart overnight. now it's getting itself back together. i've been getting calls and texts, e-mails from all my friends in south florida. if you're a mile from the beach or half mile from the beach it's going to make a difference on what you're going to see, what you're going to expect. my point to them is, okay, look, even if this thing only takes power out, do you want to really be there for three days without power in hot, muggy, weather with bugs that are angry, flying around? it's not that big a deal to get somewhere else. get to the west. find a friend in naples, find a
friend on the other side of the state. go to the north, to the northwest. if you're told to evacuate, just do it. i mean, this is -- and if nothing happens, if it stays on the right side of the cone, come back the next day. i mean it's that simple. right? and i know some people can't evacuate because of dogs and pets, but try to work it out and not like governor haley said put the first responders in harm's way when they have to come get you. 130-mile-per-hour storm. this is not -- this is not like some tropical system that's going to blow on through. this is 130-mile-per-hour storm that's forecast to be about 30 miles offshore. and the cone is onshore. so there's certainly the potential, the possibility, even i wouldn't say probability, but a 30% chance that we're on the other side of the cone. 40% chance that we're on this side of the cone. what i've noticed the past couple of hours is that the storm has turned left. i've seen a little wobble to the left. maybe it is just a wobble. maybe it will come back. maybe it will turn back right again. but that leftward wobble means it could be coming closer to
florida. hurricane warnings, hurricane conditions will be felt for the next 36 hours. that's what this means from jacksonville down to about fort pearce. that's where the hurricane warning is and there are tropical storm warnings as well. there is the eye of the storm. look how tightly packed the isobars are. it's an extremely scary storm. this is like ivan, a round storm in warm water with nothing to really stop it. if it's out here, great. we'll get wind, waves, power lines down but if it's nart to the left by 30 miles, katie bar the door, this is a big one, carol. >> still to come a 2016 debate just as an official until a hashtag starts trending on dwighter. why that mexican thing is still sparking reaction hours after mike pence first uttered the phrase. an opening night on broadway is kind of magic.
running mates but issues like immigration. pence came to his boss's defense on the topic inspiring a hashtag in the process. >> when donald trump says women should be punished, or mexicans are rapists and criminals -- >> i'm telling you -- >> or john mccain is not a hero, he is showing you who he is. >> senator, you, you, you whipped out that mexican thing again. >> okay. so when mike pence said that mexican thing it immediately started trending on twitter. and it's still trending this morning. it's just part of the backlash includes this tweet so i can just give you an example that mexican thing is millions of mexicans that live in this country, and each one of them pay more taxes than donald trump. so let's talk about this and more, tom hartman is here, a progressive radio host of the tom hartman show and ben ferguson joins me as well, conservative talk show host of the ben ferguson show. welcome to both of you. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> so, ben, what did mike pence mean by that? that mexican thing? >> i think it's -- i think his point was there you go again
with a talking point trying to fear monger everybody that is hispanic into thinking that everyone's going to be deported, when the reality is donald trump has now said and mike pence has said we are going to go after those that have committed crimes and those that have come here illegally recently. we're willing to talk about the other issues. but when you see the -- the debate narrative that's been put out by hillary clinton's campaign, and i'll say this, it's a very smart move by them, they go out and they fear monger and the hispanic community implying that everyone's going to get deported. that's not reality. it's not what donald trump has said in the last debate. it's not what mike pence has said. but it's a really good talking point to fear monger. >> okay. so i want to continue to go down this road. because, immigration, and the deportation thing, was brought up a lot last night. and before we get -- >> sure. >> i want to just display one of the exchanges between tim kaine and mike pence. >> hillary and i believe in comprehensive immigration reform. donald trump believes in deportation nation. they want to go house to house, school to school, business to
business, and kick out 16 million people. >> they have a plan for open borders, amnesty, that's -- >> our plan is like ronald reagan's plan from 1986. >> they call it comprehensive immigration reform on capitol hill. we all know the routine. it's amnesty. >> so, tom, donald trump has mentioned a deportation force. and i heard you, ben, but donald trump has said that. do you understand where donald trump stands on this issue of who is deported and who is not, tom? >> as with dozens of issues donald trump has been on multiple sides of them. on this one, i think what both tlum and pence are doing is a continuation of richard nixon's 1968 southern strategy essentially, to racialize a group of people, and then demonize them. in the '60s, of course it was african-americans in the south and the gop has carried that on foreyears and years and now trump has expanded it to hispanics and muslims.
and, that was the thing that tim kaine was pushing back on. saying you know, we're concerned about people in this country who are dangerous, you're concerned about people in this country on the basis of their religion, or ethnicity or the country they come from. mike pence, in fact, is trying to bar syrians from indiana at the same time that last night he was saying oh, gee now we need to do something about syria. it's -- it's -- it's a confused message. >> so ben, can you explain -- >> described a moment ago. >> like what -- uh-huh explain to us again what exactly donald trump means when he's going to deport some people, not others. he's going to keep families together but they have to go and come back. like we've heard all those things. >> i'll make it as clear as i possibly can. donald trump has said first and foremost that he is going to deport people that have been convicted of crimes, serious crimes, and heinous crimes. and yes, he will -- >> no he said deport them all. >> let me at least finish, okay. obviously you do not understand what donald trump has said. >> i heard him. >> the second thing he said is if you've been here, and let's
be clear, he's not going to go door-to-door. it's unrealistic to go door-to-door, home-to-home. it's a talking point, it's fear mongering, playing the race card as you just did in your statement. >> that's what trump does. >> what many people who support donald trump have understood is this. donald trump realizes there's a real problem when it comes to security with some illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes. the same exact point he's made on syria when he talks about immigrants coming in. it has been a failed procedure that has happened in germany and france, he doesn't want -- >> but going back to explain the policy. so he's going to find these criminal immigrants, living in the united states -- >> yes, the same way we do with americans. >> and then he's going to go, what, deport, and then what happens to the rest of those what 11 million people? >> well, i think what you've heard him say here is you have to have a secure border. otherwise, what we did in the past has been a failed policy. you heard tim kaine -- >> no we get the wall thing. we get the wall thing. i'm just asking you how -- what's he going to do about the
illegal immigrants living in the united states? >> he said he's going to deport them all, carol. >> he's not going to deport them all -- >> then why did he say that. >> -- changed his wording on this. >> oh. >> if you paid attention the last six months it's not abnormal to clarify things, tom. again, you're going back to the hey, everybody else is a bigot but for democrats here. what he says is my first priority is, i -- no you don't. you want to use a -- >> he said -- >> okay so you guys are starting to sound like mike pence and tim kaine so stop for a second. so i hear you ben. you say donald trump doesn't want this deportation force. but tom, you say that and donald trump has said that before and i have to make that clear to our viewers, ben, because he did, and you're saying -- >> and then he clarified it. >> and then he clarified it. so, tom, then explain to me what hillary clinton and tim kaine what to do about those people living illegally in the united states. those undocumented immigrants. >> first of all the simple fact of the matter is people who are u.s. citizens are more likely
both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the population to commit crimes than our immigrants -- >> not answering the question. >> -- mexico or syria. number one the whole fear mongering thing -- >> we get the fear mongering thing. what are they going to do? >> if, if, if somebody has committed a crime in this country, then absolutely, they, you know that should be dealt with whether imprisonment or deportation. if they haven't committed a crime in this country we need to have a comprehensive immigration reform in this country. figure out exactly how to work that out. that's a process. it goes through a legislative process, there needs to be a debate on that. the clinton campaign though -- >> we've been doing that for years, though, haven't we? >> we have. >> it's been a failure. >> and the republicans have been obstructing it for eight years. >> you had control of the house. you had control of the senate when he first got there. >> for 74 days. >> you can't blame everything on republicans. >> yes, 74 days and you did nothing with it. >> not on immigration. >> that's the most important thing. >> i'm going to end this here, guys. thank you very much tom hartman, ben ferguson i do appreciate it.
still to come in the "newsroom," pardon the interruption, i can't believe i just said that but about donald trump just slam tim kaine for interrupting limb for -- for interrupting at the vp debate? we'll talk about that next. introducing t-mobile one. one price, all unlimited for everyone. get 4 lines for $35 per month each with unlimited 4g lte data. switch today.
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all right. i kind of know what you're waiting for but maybe you're not with this debate so much but what were the ratings from last night and did you watch? did you watch the whole thing? did you fall asleep? brian stelter is here. >> fall asleep? no way. >> no way? >> no way. >> not even once? >> all that interrupting?
i have heard from viewers who said it was too much, it was uncomfortable, whatever happened to the mild-mannered day we were expecting and turned the channel. we were promised a dad debate. we were told both guys were affable. not so much. >> they were going to wear mom jeans, it would be great. what were the ratings? >> the early numbers show this debate had about half the audience as the presidential debate last week. that was over 80 million viewers. i'm expecting somewhere between 40 and 50 million viewers for this vp debate. that's good but not great. it's lower than 2012 when biden and ryan debated, a lot lower than 2008 when palin and biden debated. by vp debate standards, relatively low. still, though, over 40 million viewers means this was a big opportunity for mike pence to try to reset the race at least a little bit and to stop some of the democrats' momentum. >> here's the thing. once you got past the first 30 minutes or so, then they sort of stopped interrupting or tim kaine stopped interrupting mike pence so much and there were really some interesting exchanges like on the subject of both men's faith and how that
entered into their decisions on public policy. i thought that was fascinating. >> the last 15 minutes of the debate was to me the most revealing part. i found myself finally wanting it to go longer. there's a lot of rules and restrictions around the debate. the debate commission sets the time and the format and the moderator was really roped in, penned in by the format. she was told she had to bring up nine different segments of questions. as a result it always felt like she was rushing along the conversation. she's been getting quite a lot of negative reviews today. >> she has been eviscerated, frankly. >> she has. donald trump this hour is complaining as well, saying that she was interrupting too often, that mike pence won even though the moderator was interrupting too often. so that's the sense from trump. however, this was a no-win situation for quijano. bottom line, i don't think we will remember her and that's not what she wants. she wants voters to remember pence and kaine and the take-away was that pence won. the next hour of "cnn newsroom" after a break. your insurance company
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good morning. i'm koorm kcarol costello. the dust has barely settled from the vice presidential debate and the candidates and their surrogates are back on the road this morning. you are looking at youngstown, ohio. bill clinton will be behind that microphone stumping for his wife very soon. it's his first stop of the day in this battleground state. clinton's surrogates are fanning out across the midwest. daughter chelsea and bernie sanders holding events from iowa to wisconsin. on the republican ticket, donald trump heads west to stump in reno, nevada. next hour mike pence rallies in virginia not far from last night's showdown. as for that debate, rolots of js insulting and interruptions.