tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN October 16, 2016 7:00am-8:01am PDT
this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we begin today's show with the great observer of american life and politics, bill maher. he is politically incorrect, very real and obviously unafraid to say what he thinks. >> lying, bold-faced, caught on tape lying is no longer a dealbreaker at all. >> about trump. >> i think he's going to be the
jake gravora of deplorables. >> hillary clinton. >> she's the black driver of the neighborhood and the republicans are the passengers. >> and he wants to reanything on the paris climate agreement. but what does the american public think of all this? i'll bring you the results of an eye-opening poll. and with machines taking away so many jobs, inequality rising, and not enough work for many people, what to do? some say the answer is simple. send a check to every single citizen. a debate on the universal basic income. but first, here's my take. politics is is an endearing fut of human life but politicians
are immortal. the republican party as we know it is dying. last sunday's debate may have been the watershed moment as many commentators and some of his own strategists noted, it was pretty obvious what donald trump needed to do. apologize, be contrite and then strike broad themes of change, bringing back jobs and putting america first. ideally he would reach out to women, the group of voters he desperately needs to win the election. instead, trump did the opposite. he minimized his behavior as locker room talk, went on to accuse bill clinton of much worse and paraded the former president's accusers at a news conference. since then, things have spiralled downward. trump has now made it clear that he will not go gently into the night. in fact, he has declared war on the gop establishment. his goal is surely to take over the republican party and remake it into a populist,
protectionist, nationalist party, the kind his breitbart organizers have been dreaming for for years. we can see the battle lines. people like paul ryan backed by the most serious conservative intellectuals, will try to restore the party to its reaganesqu idealogy. limited government, entitlement reform and assertive policy. others, backed by christian conservatives, will try to bridge divide and keep everyone in a big tent. then there's trump, who has, for now at least, the crowds, the energy and a powerful message. the political scientist justin guest recently surveyed white americans on whether they supported a party committed to, quote, stopping mass immigration, providing american jobs to american workers, preserving america's christian
heritage and stopping the threat of islam, unquote. 65% said yes. the republican establishment could have stopped trump months ago, but instead it surrendered to him. republicans often recall neville chamberlain and his policy of appeasing adolf hitler when they wanted to criticize them for being weak-kneed. and they are appeasing trump in the hope it would satisfy their appetit appetites. he launched his presidential campaign with anti-mexican slurs, heightened it anti-muslim bigotry and thrilled crowds with policies that would be unconstitutional or amount to war crimes, all the while demeaning and objectifying
women. churchill said, everyone hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last. let's be clear. donald trump will lose the election. forget his dismal polls last week. he has almost never been ahead of hillary clinton in the polls for a single week since they were both nominated. the major models predicting the election have only once or twice put his chances over 40%. but trump will not sit in loyal opposition to clinton. he tells his legions that the election will be rigged. he claims that the media is lying and that its reporting cannot be believed. he warns that the country will be utterly destroyed if clinton were to win. he is fueling a toxic movement of rebellion and insurgency. so donald trump will lose, and he will then destroy the republican party. the frightening question is what he will do to the country in the
process. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. and let's get started. ♪ i spent some time this week in los angeles. and while i was there, i had the opportunity to sit down for a conversation with a man who is u unabashedly off the left and, i think, one of the most astute political observers of our time. not a columnist, not an academ c academic, but a man who is a comedian. bill maher. cnn is owned by time warner. we met on his realtime set and things got real really quickly. bill maher, pleasure to have you on. >> pleasure to be here. >> whatever happens with this election, the big question i think we all are still trying to
puzzle is how trump, why trump? what is your explanation as to why donald trump erupted onto the political scene the way he did? >> well, you have to look at the people who voted for him. it's depressing to think you share the country with so many people who you share nothing with. you know, donald trump is a reflection. and what we learned is that there is a lot of vulgar, tacky, racist people in this country, more than i thought. i knew there were some. but it's the proverbial lifting up a rock and what we found when we lifted it up was the basket of deplorables. i know we hate that term, but if the basket fits, and it does. >> a lot of people talk about the dislocation, the pain. you don't buy that. >> we found out it was a myth. the typical trump voter in the primaries made, i think,
$72,000. they're not hurting economically like they say they are. no more likely to be hurt by trade or immigration, no more likely to be out of work. you know, the base problem is that they live in this factory bubble. if you've ever seen one of his rallies it's a completely fact-free assessment of this country, the problems facing it and his always impossible constitutional solutions. it's funny, the internet was supposed to make us smarter but it just served as a seal for knowledge to get in. >> the perfect example of that is he keeps citing these on-line non-polls. it's like, we won all the polls. >> he said this week that isis was not only going to take over their part of the world but take over america. you know, back in the day, if you were in the john burke society, you had to go door to door with pamphlets and talk to people, whatever. now they're right in a chat
room. you can spew your nonsense and there's lots of people who that's what they want to hear and they want to believe, so they do. we live in this element where it's not even a race between idealogies anymore. it's not republican or democrat or conservative and liberal. it's reality versus alternative reality. this reality of their aen choow choosing. and to make it even worse, they don't care about lying. lying, bold-faced, caught on tape lying is no longer a deal breaker at all. they don't care. they know, they don't know, it doesn't matter to them. he's their guy. >> how much of trump's success is he comes from this much larger world than the political world, the world of celebrity. this thing from dr. ramer said there is one candidate who has two presidents in his family, an amazing rolo orrolodax, and thee
guy with 2 million twitter followers, who is going to win? it's the guy with the twitter followers. >> someone should write a book about the history of fame and celebrity, maybe someone did, because it sure has changed. 50 years ago being mobbed was considered rather gauche. actors were like the lowest form of life. now celebrity is everything. you see it in kids' reactions. what do you want to be? it's usually a model, a rapper, an athlete, a singer, you know. i mean, there is a lot of talk in this country from people about you can always live your dream, kids. and what is the dream? it's usually to be a singer. you know. american idol. let's get to the part where i'm an idol. not a lot of the doctors without borders. i mean, some, but there's way too much emphasis on that. and so they think a celebrity is
the best thing you can be. it's certainly not held against donald trump by his fans. >> and there's no distinction between fame, notoriety and celebrity, they're all the same. you're famous. >> the best thing. >> you have five, six million twitter followers. >> uh-huh. >> when you come back, i'm going to ask bill maher if he might run for office.
big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.
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conventional media, he's got, between facebook and twitter, he claims, 25 million -- i haven't checked it -- followers. i'm serious, in that same world you have five or six million twitter followers. have you ever thought about the fact that you could probably run? you have more name recognition than any politician. >> i know, but it's my views. i could run more reasonably than i could ten years ago. but my standard answer to that was always i think religion is bad and drugs are good. and that is not a slogan that will probably get you a lot of votes in america. people are rather conservative when they go in the voting booth. even liberals, not necessarily idealogical. if trump gets elected, this goes out the window. just being an atheist right there, that is a dealbreaker. there is polling on this in america.
they will vote for anybody before an atheist. i'm talking about the categories that have never been elected, a jew, homosexual, vegetarians. they hate vegetarians and they will even vote for vegetarians before an atheist. that's rock bottom. nor would i ever want to. oh, my gosh, to be restricted in the ways you have to be? i would have to get up in the morning. that right there is a dealbreaker. >> what does trump do, in your view, after his probable defeat? >> not good things. i worry about that. he's got his knuckle draggers all riled up about the fact that this is a rigged election. i think i read 65% of his followers already believe it is a rigged election. he talks about hillary, putting her in jail. this is dangerous talk. we saw that woman at the mike pence rally this week. first of all, they live in this, again, alternative reality where the country is hanging by a
thread and if she is elected it is an existential threat to our way of life on earth. it's just insane. if you have that mind, i don't think he goes away. he's got an army. what's he going to do with that army? i think he will be -- people say he might start his own fox news-type station. i don't know. but i don't think it's going to be good. i think he's going to be the gravora of deplorables. i don't know what they're prepared to do. they already talk about things like second amendment solutions. that phrase becomes a lot more acceptable. >> do you think he believes any of this? i mean, he was a democrat pro-choice, praised the clintons. smeared clinton's accusers and now this. >> i think he was always a racist because he adores his
father. that's baked into the cake for him from way back, the housing stuff. he went after those five who were acquitted of the rape, and even after they were acquitted, he still -- i think he's truly a racist. so he started with that, the birther stuff. and that's where they should have stopped him, by the way. that was where you stop this maniac. but they didn't. after that, once he got in front of his rallies, those crowds, i think he let them dictate where he went. he feeds off the love of those people. we know this about him. putin says he likes him. putin is a great guy. someone criticizes him, that's a horrible person. if he ever got elected, it would just be government by snit, not about idealogy, really. you're right, he's all over the map. it doesn't matter. whether you like him, whether you don't.
he get its front of people and they cheer and he loves it. >> he's like a salesman. he's sensing the crowd. >> yes, sensing the crowd, so i think that is what has shaped his idealogy as far as it goes. >> one of the things we've all grappled with, which has been very tough, is how do you cover this race, and how do you cover trump particularly when he says things that just aren't true? for instance, i even watched him in this last debate and anderson cooper said to him, do you think you have the discipline to be president? you tweet late at night and you ask us to watch a sex tape, and he said, i didn't. how do you argue that when you did tweet it and how many times do you do that? >> i think the media has been going downhill for a long time with notable exceptions. but i think one of their big problems is that they confuse fair and balanced with false
equivalency. he's not the same as hillary clinton. i mean, politico did a study of this. she lies about 28% of the time somewhat or fully, which is pretty good for a politician. he lies like 80% of the time. she lies less than most politicians, he lies more than anybody we've ever seen. he just says whatever comes into his head. i think it's the media's job to point that out. i know he's going to stammer and yell, and he does. he's like a five-year-old. he kept saying to the moderator, she got more time. this is what my sister and i did when we were literally toddlers. she gets to do what she wants and i can't watch any of my shows. this is somebody america is seriously considering electing? even if he loses, that is a depressing thought. yes, i think the media has to do a much better job of that. >> but his supporters and all the people on fox news, they buy this all. they like it. >> but the media has to
understand that, again, fair and balanced. they got that in their head, which they think means, i say this to this guy and i say the exact same thing to the other guy. but if one person is saying the earth doesn't revolve around the sun, the answer is not to give that person equal weight with that. and also -- come on, the media is rooting for a close race. it's better for them. hillary is way up now, but i don't think that's what the media wants, and they're going to take these nothing e-mails that are in the wikipedia leaks -- i mean, the wikileaks, and they're going to find something in there and they're going to dwell on it, and people out there who don't know much about anything in politics are going to go, well, it's a wash. he did the 8,000 horrific things, but what about the e-mails? the e-mails, big nothing. the clinton foundation, nothing there. god forbid they get caught
helping people with diseases versus donald trump's charity which was basically a slush fund to help one orphan, donald trump, and people think this is a push. the media has to take some responsibility for that. when we come back, i'm going to ask bill maher if it is possible to be a comedian with hillary clinton as president. hey america,
she's not good at -- i mean, in 2008, she lost to a black man with a muslim name. now she's losing to a 74-year-old jewish socialist. i mean, hillary, we're making this as easy as we can for you, but you're going to have to help a little. >> that was bill maher on his hbo show "realtime" talking about hillary clinton in february. have his views changed? listen in. so who is hillary clinton, really? i mean, one of the things people wonder about, who is that person behind this what seems like a programmed facade? >> i don't find her to be this mystery that people -- she's been out there for this long.
look, she's certainly shell-shocked from 30 years of being attacked. i don't think there's anyone who has ever been more scrutinized, overscrutinized. i always say she's like a black driver in a white neighborhood and the police are the republicans. they keep pulling her over and they keep having to let her go. so, obviously, she's guarded. maybe she's that way from the beginning from her upbringing, but i can't blame her. and, i mean, we're starting to read all the e-mails. there is nothing in them. you know, they reveal what she is, a government nerd who never stops working. the kind of person who knows details, who believes government can do good, and i just think that's exactly who she is. she's someone who wants to roll up her sleeves and make a problem better, like bill clinton said at the convention. i don't think there's much more to it than that. i don't see -- i certainly don't see a scary person. she's a centrist.
the idea in their minds that she's going to change the country very much is crazy. bernie has moved her to the left a degree, that's good, but she's not going to rock the boat. what's so ironic is he's the big businessman. they love him because he's rich. if you're rich, anything you say is brilliant. but he's the one that's going to lose him money. the market will tank before he's even taken the oath of office, because the market is very nervous, hates volatility, they pretended they hated obama as the stock market went from 69 to 18,000, but they loved him, really, because he's calm. he doesn't rock the boat. he's steady and the market loves that. and donald trump is just the poster boy for volatility. >> and if hillary clinton is as dull and intense as you say, how are you going to make jokes? >> we can always make jokes
every time there is a passing of the guard. i remember when bush left office, the media called altogether comedians and said, will there ever be anybody as funny? first of all, the republicans will be who we make fun of mostly, even though they're not the president. somebody always steps up. george bush goes down and sarah palin steps up. jeb bush. it just always gets worse, and i have no doubt there are people who will step up for the republican party who will make my job easier if i'm here when i'm 110, which i hope to be. >> bill maher, pleasure to have you on, as always. >> good to be here, as always. >> thank you so much. don't forget the next and final presidential debate is right here on cnn wednesday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern, 6:00 p.m. pacific. don't miss it. next on gps, the candidates for president have very different views when it comes to american foreign policy.
needed? what are the biggest threats to the country? is globalization good or bad? you're about to hear the results of a very telling republican opinion survey, the results which are just out from the k chicago council of global affairs. the leader of that is the former ambassador to nato, ivo daalder. ivo, good to have you on. >> good to be here. >> the issue of this campaign, the wall. what do americans think of the wall is this. >> there is a huge split between americans. 92% of core trump supporters, the people who really want trump to be president, believe we should build the wall. but if you look at the overall results, they're split. about 48% are in favor and 50% are against. >> what's interesting to me is this partisan divide shows up not just in issues like immigration, which you would expect, but even on the core threats to the united states, we
are so divided as a country. terrorism is number one. but how does it break out after that? >> after that, among core trump supporters and indeed among republicans, immigration and islamic fundamentalism are very high threats, they're critical threats to the united states. for democrats, it's nuclear proliferation and the threat of a north korean nuclear weapon. climate change appears on the list. another financial crisis. >> what about the concern that people have often had about a return of american isolationism? america historically didn't want to be involved in the world from washington's farewell address from the 1930s. that changed after world war ii. a lot of people worry when they listen to some of the things trump says that he wants to withdraw from the world and his supporters want to withdraw from the world. whaelts t what's the polling? >> that's the interesting thing.
we've been asking one question since 1974. should they have an active role in world affairs or should they stay out? about one-third says we need to stay out. for the rest, republicans and democrats all want to remain engaged, and it's been like that more or less for the last 40-some years. >> what about nato? trump has said some things which seem to disparage nato. he said nato is obsolete. he then has qualified it. but what does the american public think about nato if it thinks about it at all? >> it does, and we've asked questions. 63% of americans want to maintain our commitment to nato, and another 12% want to increase our commitment to nato. so three-quarters of the american public wants to either maintain or increase it. among core trump supporters, it's a little lower but it's still well over a majority of core trump supporters who believe that we should maintain, if not increase, our commitment
to nato. >> what do you think, looking at this, knowing the history of this polling data, what's the bottom line conclusion you come to? >> my bottom line is that the fear that we see in the commentary that america wants to withdraw from the world, a fear that frankly donald trump is mobilize ing in his campaign, tt that's not where the american people are. there remains a majority of constituency in favor of strong american engagement in the world, to deal with the threats that are out there, to do so in a way that maintains openness to the world through open trade, through immigration, through alliance commitments, the kind of liberal internationalism that we have seen for the last 70 years at the core of american foreign policy. there is majority support for that. >> ivo daalder, a pleasure to have you on. >> my pleasure. up next, amidst concerns
that donald trump may have paid no taxes for decades, they are looking for some way of evening the economic playing field. and one thing that crops up is should the government simply pay every adult american citizen a healthy amount every year? how would like a check for, say, $15,000? i'll explain to you how it would work, when we come back. it's not uncommon for autistic kids to flap their hands.
and so when i saw that, that was completely disqualifying. i'm a republican, but this election is so much bigger than party. my son max can't live in trump world. so
i'm crossing party lines and voting for hillary. i don't always agree with her, but she's reasonable. and she's smart. she can work with people to solve problems. i want to be able to tell my kids that i did the right thing when it really mattered. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message.
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now, whether a universal income is the right model, is that going to be accepted by a broad base of people, that's a debate that we'll be having over the next 10 years, next 20 years. >> that was president obama from an interview in "wired" magazine. he's right, but we're not going to wait 10 years to have that debate. we will have it right now. let me explain the basic idea he's talking about. it's called a universal basic income, or ubi. the idea is you get an annual check from the government for, say, $10,000 a year.
no questions asked. you don't have to do anything to be eligible for it, just be a citizen. why would the government do this? well, it's under consideration around the world and even being tested in a handful of nations. you see, technology is replacing more and more of the jobs that humans do. western societies generate lots of wealth, but it's skewed very unequally. ubi is the way to deal with unemployment or underemployment that appears to become a feature of modern western life. in other words, if you're a truck driver and autonomous automobiles put you out of a job, you would at least have some income to fall back on. listen in. let's get into this deeper with a debate. chris hughes is a big supporter of the idea. he is, of course, a cofounder of facebook. and eduardo porter is more skeptical of ubi. he's a columnist who writes mainly on economics for the "new york times." chris, how did you come to think
about this? presumably watching facebook and the kind of technology of this evolution must have something to do with it. >> absolutely. you're watching a world that is changing incredibly fast, and the reality is the nature of work itself has changed dramatically. upwards of 40% of jobs in the united states are now contingent labor. uber drivers and things like that. as that starts to change and change quickly, the safety net has not caught up. it's not sufficient in size and most importantly it's insufficient in the way we cobble it together. it's pretty clear. it's really social security for all, a check from the government that enables people to live their lives as they see fit. >> but to explain, again, the underlying premise here, you really think that automation and
these technological changes are going to create, if you will, on one level so much per activity but take away so many jobs that you really won't have stuff for a large number of people, maybe a majority of working age people, to do? >> probably. but this whole argument that robots are going to take jobs or maybe they're not going to take jobs is a lot about the future, but this is the present, the reality, that the median american household income today is less than it was 20 years ago, and people are trying their hardest to cobble it together. >> eduardo, do you agree with the premise of some of this thinking which is that technological change and automation are going to make it harder and harder for people to find good, full-time jobs? >> let's start by saying predictions, especially about the future, are really fickle, you know, and also to say we've been making this prediction for more than 100 years.
our technology has changed the labor market since the industrial revolution, and these fears that there is not going to be enough work have been around pretty much forever. you know, we've transformed our society from being mainly agricultural producers where 60, 70% of work was on farms to where 1 to 2% of work is on farms. we created other needs, a demand for other stuff, gave work to most people. now, again, you could argue that we're going through a transition, a very fast transition, but to conclude from there that there is not going to be work seems to me a stretch that we don't really have sufficient, you know, basis to do. >> so when you look at this situation, presumably you're saying, you ain't seen nothing yet. that if you look at where google's driverless car is going to take us. one thing i'm always struck by is when people talk about this, it was this enormous promise, the single most widespread
vocation for american men is driving a truck. so if you end up with technology that either eliminates the need or reduces it substantially, this is going to have a huge impact. is it the kind of thing that you see going on here that is part of what's driving you, or is it another fact, which i want you to talk about, is this idea of a universal base income an efficient way to do welfare? >> predicting the future is exactly as you mentioned, nobody can do it. so to try to think what the world is going to be like in 2025 or 2030, i think i and other people in the basic income movement want to think about what the world is like today and say that the future is already here and everyday people are struggling. there was a study that came out from the fed just a couple months ago that said nearly 50% of americans couldn't find $400 in the case of a health care emergency or if their car broke down they would have to sell,
borrow or find some other means to be able to afford just $400. that's half of americans. the reality is the economic security net in the united states is in the process, under our very eyes, of collapsing. and we feel this general sense of anxiety in the culture and the society, certainly in our politics, and i think it is a response to that. so we tend to get caught up in very intellectual conversations about is work going to go to zero, is google going to actually have a self -driving car? what's relevant is we have to come up with these numbers now. >> you ran the numbers, and if properly executed, that is to give people a basic income, it's a very expensive idea. >> how much this income is, at 10% income, i think you
calculated it at 1.4% the gross national product which is basically like a food stamp. it is not trivial. >> you did it at 10%? >> y -- you did it at $10,000? >> yes. you're talking about 3 trillion which is a huge amount of money. it's 60% of our gross national product. it's almost all of what the federal government spends today. so if we're going to put it on top of the safety net we have, we'll start looking like norway. four out of every $10 produced going to the central government. like the norwegians, we have never been that generous about our taxes and spending. >> freedman, great conservative economist, has the answer of what the industrial society should do about poverty.
he said it's very simple. give poor people money. instead of having these vast, complicated nanny state that tells poor people if you jump through this hoop, i'll give you some money but you can only spend it in a grocery store. if you do this -- just give them the cash, treat them like adults. >> well, sure, i know that there is a big part of our political spectrum that really likes this idea which tends to be the more libertarian keep the government out of our decision making, but i would argue that, in fact, a lot of government intervention through the safety net has been very, very positive. the earned income tax credit is one excellent example. >> that's giving people cash. >> if they go to work. so there is a quid pro quo, so that has give ayn ln a lot of w which improves their lives more than if you just give them a check. >> so grateful to you, chris hughes, to be one of the people launching this discussion, and eduardo, thank you for
everything you write which i love. next on gps, another novel idea about you and your money. radical transparency. a country where everyone's tax returns are available for all to see. donald trump would obviously hate this, but what about you? . like centurylink's broadband network that gives 35,000 fans a cutting edge game experience. or the network that keeps a leading hotel chain's guests connected at work, and at play. or the it platform that powers millions of ecards every day for one of the largest greeting card companies. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. i'm beowulf boritt and i'm broaa broadway set designer.
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this week a chinese company pledged to invest $20 billion into a new world capital city. this comes months after another chinese company pledged $15 million to invest in that same capital. it brings me to my question. which of the following questions is planning to build a new capital city with help of investments from chinese companies? is it egypt, angola, niger or ethiopia? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book of the week is "the populist explosion --
how the great recession transformtranc transformed america." it unleashed a wave of populism in the western world. this provides an intelligent guide to this phenomenon which is by no means over. now for a last look. >> i pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes, but as soon as my audit releases my tax returns, i'll be glad to release them. >> imagine the click of a mouse looking at anyone's tax returns. income earned and taxes paid are public information in this country. the guardian points this out. in fact, just this friday, the 2015 taxes of all norwegians were published on line for all to see. the searching is not anonymous. they require logs be kept so you can see if you've been searched. but anyone can look up the taxes
of their bosses, colleagues, friends or enemies for that matter. proponents of the system argue that it increases openness, deters tax fraud and reduces income disparities between gender, race and class. it also makes it easier to find out just how much your favorite politician pays in taxes, if anything at all. the correct answer to the gps challenge question is "a." cnn has reported the egyptian government officials have announced plans for the construction of a new capital city last year, in part because of rising population. a city capable of housing 5 million people will be constructed in the desert east of cairo and even will become the new home of the government. china is just one of several companies with countries pledging to invest in cairo 2.0. in fact, much will be built by
the uae company that developed the bush califah. the money proposed for the new city could go a long way toward actually solving the problems of cairo. thank you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hey, good morning, i'm brian stalter and it's time for "reliable sources." how the media really works, how the news really gets made. we have a lot to analyze this morning. donald trump is making up a massive media conspiracy, falsely claiming that we are rigging the election. he even wants "saturday night live" canceled. i'll have a response coming up. plus, clint greenwald is live in new york is to discuss the trump's campaign of stolen e-mails. billy bush is one half of the fallout from that vulgar