tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN October 21, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
that does it for us. thanks for watching. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts now. 18 days. 18 days until election day and donald trump is doubling down on his claims that election is rigged. but not exactly sounding like a man who expects to move into the white house come january. >> win, lose, or draw, and i'm almost sure if the people come out, we're going to win, but i
will be -- i will be happy with myself because i always say, i don't want to think back if only i did one more rally, i would have won north carolina by 500 votes instead of losing it by 200 votes, right? >> interesting. this is "cnn tonight," i'm don lemon, thanks for watching. hillary clinton is stopping in cleveland with a message for trump's voters. >> i want to say something to people who may be reconsidering their support for my opponent. i know you may still have questions for me. i respect that. i want to answer them. i want to earn your vote. i am reaching out to all americans, democrats, republicans, and independents. >> so what will it all mean on election day? let's get right now to larry savado, director for center of politics for university of virginia, and you can tell in their voices it's coming down to the wire, larry. i'm sure you -- can you feel that in their voices?
>> sure. i mean, after all, if you were running for president and you spent this much time and energy doing it you'd be nervous, too. >> right, you are. okay. so let's talk about this electoral map, larry, because the road to 270 is looking pretty tough for donald trump. just 18 days to go. our cnn electoral map shows hillary clinton has 307 electoral votes with votes solidly in clinton's corner, if the votes were held today. does donald trump still have a path to victory, layer me? >> he has a path to victory, don, if all the polls and therefore the polling averages are wrong. there are still a few polls showing him leading boyy a poin or two nationally, but they seem to be outliers. i'm convinced and people in my shop are convinced at uva, she is likely not just to win but also win many of the versus
close states including ohio, and most surprisingly of all, arizona. >> so let's talk about arizona and utah, because you just mentioned arizona. now in play -- and on your map, even have texas, home of ted cruz and rick perry as likely republican not safe republican. so what's going on here? >> donald trump is losing a portion of the republican vote. it's larger than the portion usually lost by a republican nominee. you know, it's an additional four or five percent of the republican vote. it matters in texas, or missouri, or alaska, or even indiana, believe it or not. he's winning these states, let me throw in georgia, too. he's winning them by three, four, five, six, seven points whereas normally those margins are double. does it matter in the electoral college? no it tells you which candidate is having problems. >> oh, wow. and i thought this might be --
you know, might be up for grabs earlier. this new poll is out of georgia and it shows that two point race along likely voters with trump on top. but within the margin of error, could hillary clinton really win georgia, laerry? the last time was 1992 with bill clinton. >> if she gains momentum between now and election day, but she has to gain more momentum. if i had to guess, i would say trump would still wear georgia by three, four, five, six points. we certainly still have georgia on our map as being in trump's camp, but, don, what this really says to us is that georgia is following the path of virginia and north carolina. as its demographics change, as it becomes more diverse, it will become easier for a democratic presidential candidate to win it. >> so what does it mean when we look up and down the ballot? what about the u.s. senate?
the gop is scrambling to save their house and senate majorities and not get caught in trump's wake. what are you seeing? >> we see 47 to 47, 47 democrats and 47 republican in six toss-up races, maybe seven if you want to throw in florida. those toss ups will determine it. now, at least for the moment, more of them are tilting to the democratis th democrats than the republicans. i would cause these senate races traditionally break late in a presidential year, so we could be looking at a democratic margin of several seats or look at republicans holding on to the senate by a seat or two. today you'd bet on the democrats, today. >> and what you're saying is going to be a really interesting election night so stay tuned to cnn. larry stick around because i want to bring in some other folks to help us out, david swe swerdlick, and rebeccaburg from real clear politics. rebecca, donald trump larges to
point to his large rallies. are there enough new voters to make up the deficit in the polls that we're seeing larry's talking about? >> the simple answer is, no, don, he's not grown his base of support over the last few weeks over the people that were originally behind him and he's narrowed his support. he's lost ground with hillary clinton among women, obviously a key demographic when you're trying to win the presidency, and you're seeing hispanic voters energized, african-american voters energized and donald trump has been very, very strong among the white working class, but he's losing share among women there, too so he's not reaching out to new people. he's not winning new people over to his side. he's not winning over the college-educated white voters who tend to support republicans and for decades have traditionally supported republican candidates for the presidency and part of the problem, don, is that he hasn't expanded the reach of his message. he has focused on the same
issues he's focused on throughout this campaign. he's gotten mired in controversies, defending himself from attacks against hillary clinton and he hasn't been able to move to the issues that could really grow his base of support and that's why we see the polling where it is today. >> david s he be, is he beating? >> yeah, don, he definitely is beating himself largely for the reasons rebecca just outlined. we had early september. kellyanne conway took over his campaign. he was sticking to teleprompters, he was driving messages and the themes that had drawn people to his campaign in the first place or positive to his supporters, this idea of building a wall, this idea of -- this idea of, you know, cutting back on these trade deals. his foreign policy ideas, which were appealing to this core 35, 40% of the electorate. once we got to the debates and the "access hollywood" tape in october, he reverted to an
earlier form in the race and as rebecca said, he has reinforced the message that has continued to generate support among his core base, but not expanded it to college-educated voters, to voters in cleveland, ohio, orlando, florida, and that's why his path is so, sonar row at this point. >> i want you guys to pay attention. this is donald trump today. pay close attention. >> i don't know what kind of shape i'm in, but i'll be happy and at least i will have known win, lose, or draw, and i'm almost sure -- if the people come out, we're going to win. but i will be -- i will be happy with myself because i always say, i don't want to think back, if only i did one more rally. >> i wanted you to listen closely. what are you hearing there, larry sabato? >> i'm hearing a candidate who also is very familiar with all the most recent polls. we already knew that because he talks about them so much and he has for a year. also, the other thing we know
about him is he watches an enormous amount of cable news, don, so he's familiar with the trends and he's familiar with what other people are saying, and i think he's laying it out in a way that he can accept if in fact he loses. >> uh-huh. this is joe biden on the campaign trail today for hillary clinton. he had some words for -- some very sharp words for donald trump. >> he said because i'm famoufam because i'm a star, because i'm a billionaire. i can do things other people can't. what a disgusting assertion for anyone to make. the press always asks me, don't i wish i were debating him? no, i wish i were in high school and could take him behind the gym, that's what i wish. >> rebecca sounds like he wants to take him to the wood shed.
he said behind the gym. themselv th thems fighting words. >> it's signature joe biden. he's built his entire political career on this idea, this sort of mantra that no one is ever any better than you. this is something he himself has repeat body himseled about himst others and it's something joe biden values very much and that's an idea donald trump and his remarks have affronted, and so it's a very good message and a good messenger, because even though joe biden is vice president, the second-highest position in government in our country, he still seems like an average guy, eveaverage joe, an for joe biden, he's been a really successful democrat among the white working class which now donald trump has swung over to the republican side. if you look at states like iowa, that is a state where barack
obama and joe biden brought some working white class voters and that was how they built their coalition. that is why donald trump has undermined and is doing well this iowa. joe biden doesn't want them on the republican side forever. this is a longer-term concern for him, as well. >> trump's campaign monitor is the media is against him and the media is biased. so david i have to and you, because kellyanne conway tweeted this out, had trump said this, it would be hair on fire, breaking news with violence and bully, trending high school psychologists on tv panels. is she right about that? >> i would say probably nice try, kellyanne conway. she has done yoman's work on donald trump's campaign. she really got him -- before "access hollywood," she really got him within sort of striking distance of clinton in the polls and there was a moment there where people really looking at
her like wow she's the one person that can sort of push trump over the top in this race. but like rebecca said, you know, every situation is different and these tactic sort of -- that may have worked against other politicians, that tweet may have been more effective against president obama, against hillary clinton, against someone like joe biden who is seen as a reg lawyer j ular joe, who has kept his fire throughout the race, passionately on an issue he worked on when he was in the senate and to say, look, i'm not saying the politically correct thing, to use a donald trump phrase. he's going to tell it like it is. that tweet is falling on deaf ears. >> and donald trump never says controversial things as we all know. thank you, guys have a great weekend. republicans abandoning donald trump. will he cost them the house and the senate? . aste
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november 8th, could he take republican candidates on the ballot down with him? here to discuss, and former campaign advisor to john mccain, and national correspondent for the atlantic. i love reading the atlantic. thank you, very much, gentlemen, for joining us here on a friday night. mark, i'm going to start with you. if you look at the latest poll, hillary clinton on the most recent poll of polls just 18
days before the election. is donald trump hurting the republicans down ballot? >> sure. look at races a week or so, like new hampshire, and marco rubio's tied. it's certainly having an effect. it's not necessarily a huge wave election like it is sometimes that just washes everybody out, because i think there's certain message some of the republican candidates are effectively using, which is you need me there as a buffer and you don't want all branches of government in democratic hands. that's sort of where the messaging has come from. >> and if you look at the ads in those states, and the producers say, let's play one. >> america's future is far from certain but no matter who the next president is, new hampshire needs a strong voice in the senate, that senator, kelly aiot, she works across the aisle to get things done.
>> so basically cross the country, where you said they may be in trouble, they're saying vote republican, not vote for donald trump, and the resources from the rnc are going to the candidates and not necessarily donald trump. >> that's why paul ryan did. he said i want to keep the resources where we can keep the important members in the house and the senate and kelly ayiotte is the answer to that. >> republican voters may stay home for this? >> it's a really difficult situation for republicans. it's breaking my heart. historically -- >> it's breaking mine. >> -- thinking back to 1996 when it became clear bob doyle was not going to beat bill clinton for re-election, there was a similar shift of resources to the senate and the house, but it wasn't in the same situation, candidates were being asked to say do you count against bob dole or not?
sure, bob dole's find, but now there's this extra twist of saying what do you think of donald trump and his comments on women? what do you think about us saying he's not going to accept the results of the election, what do you think about xy and z. so there's the additional drag of being forced to answer about donald trump, in all of these appearances. >> has the top of the ticket, james, ever mattered so much in a positive way or negative way than with donald trump this time around? >> i think that you know there are such things as waive elections in 1964, lyndon johnson, he swept barry go goldwater, and had a grasp, on the congress, and beat george mcgovernor very badly by nixon it. probably matters more in differently nowace voti as voti general has become more partisan it. used to be there was ticket splitting, so people are more
partisan in their voting but i can't remember a time when there's been this -- this moral element to what -- where you're asked to say, to a traditional republican, let's say kelly ayiotte in new hampshire, we want you to vote republican, but what about the things that the republican standard bearer is saying, doing, and standing for. so this is what's new to me. >> you're shaking your head. why? >> i was agreeing because the thing that's different now is because of the extreme jerry mondayering mandering that protects from the real waive elections. >> do you think marco rubio is still down? do you think he's safe? >> no, i think he's in real trouble. >> i want to play this ad from the president, who is out campaigning in florida and this is a shot he's campaigning for patrick murphy, a shot across marco rubio's ballot, look at this. >> [ speaking spanish ]
♪ >> can that move the needle with republicans and drem accuraemoc? >> sure, i remember florida from 2,000. part of the reason he's there -- if republicans don't win florida, we lose. it's as simple as that. if they can -- they have a great turnout operation and where they need barack obama is with those younger obama coalition voters, needs to get them excited, because they have a good turnout operation. a lot of them aren't excited. that's the guy that can excite them. >> what are you saying james?
>> i'm saying there's linguistic point. there's never an understanding of a foreign language than president obama is speaking. i think also in his english attacks on marco rubio, the president has been making a case saying to senator rubio, toomey in pennsylvania, and speaker ryan, look do you stand with this man or not? do you want historically to be listed with donald trump? and i think that's a theme the democrats will push. >> do you think the republicans could lose the senate and the -- and the house? >> again, back to the redistricting question. i don't think they're going to lose the house. there's just too many safe districts. >> okay. donald trump says candidates who withdraw their support from this campaign they're hurting themselves, people like ohioa's senate candidate, rob portman. >> we have a couple cases where people that aren't supporting me, they're losing and i'm
winning states. >> do you agree? >> i think rob portman's a great candidate and he's the kind of candidate that can separate himself from the ticket and he's independent enough and he's a very authentic guy. rob portman is still running strong in ohio and i think he's going to be fine. >> james take us through -- we've got 18 days left here. what's next? what happens? >> it's very hard -- you know there's no historical case of somebody coming from as far behind as donald trump seems to be now and winning, so all the odds, you know, barring the -- even more unexpected than we've had suggests that hillary clinton will win. so we'll see number one the way in which donald trump carries out these next two-plus weeks. number two, how the republicans as a party behave. again i think there are two conflicting axis and in the short-term, many republicans feel they suffer by differing from donald trump, that's why paul ryan has been so delicate in the way that he's taken his distance. but i do think there's long-term
cost to the party, many individuals and seem to embrace him and the way the republican party waves those two calculations is going to be fascinating and consequenceal to see. >> in riding the wave of anger does donald trump continue to do that and we're going to talk about chris christie. you sink into it, but you can still move around. and now that i have a tempur-flex, i can finally get a good night's sleep. buy the most highly recommended bed in america for as low as $25 per month and a 90 night free trial. i'm beowulf boritt and i'm broaa broadway set designer. when i started designing a bronx tale: the musical, i came up...
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back now with mark mackinnon and james falowes. mark was jealous because he didn't get to respond. what do you think happens? >> republicans has been complaining there has been enough mainstream comments on wikileaks, and donald trump has been talking about other things that obscure that message. i think a big part of the news the next couple things are going to be wikileaks. a lot of things that haven't been talked about, like foreign governments making contributions to the clinton foundation that have the appearance -- that have a bad appearance, and so we know there's more to that to come. our show this week is going to focus entirely on wikileaks.
>> hold that thought. roll tape. >> wikileaks. do you think the mainstream media's overlooked this issue? >> are you kidding? [ laughter ] yeah. nobody in the press wants to do anything to hurt hillary, but what bothers me is the journ journalists -- the information in the e-mails is remarkable. i mean, it's like -- it's like a condensed version of 15 bob woodward books. we have 11 full-time reporters on it and i run a web site, do you know what i mean, with 75 employees. where's nbc news? they gave zero minutes to covering this last week, zero. >> do you agree with that? >> yeah, no, i think he has a point, but now there's vacuum -- the reason they haven't been talking about it is because donald trump hasn't been talking about it. if he gets focused on and on message, there are a lot of significant important issues that need to be andsked and answered. there could be many more revelations. the debates are over.
those are the things that could have moved the needle in a significant way. that's not going to happen. the only thing, barring some really catastrophic event that can move the needle are more wikileaks disclosures. >> exactly. and i agree ywith you. james has there been anything in the wikileaks that's been game changing or a bombshell? a lot of people see it inside baseball, people are talking crap about each other on e-mails, doesn't everybody do that in the company or are there really some bombshells in there? >> i have not spent a lot of my time looking at these and most of these what i have seen number one is embarrassing e-mails showing people don't understand the principle anything you put in an e-mail is likely to be leaked. there is more of the appearance and question and unwhole sosome appearance of trade offs, so if that became more of an issue, i'm sure the clinton campaign would say let's match foundation
for foundation and there's the whole russian angle here, so this will be a theme in the next week or two. i would be very surprised if it changes the fundamental dynamics based on what we know so far. >> if donald trump is saying i'm not going to accept the results of the nomination or grab her by the whatever, we would be covering it, because you do such outlandish things. >> the media is going to cover whatever the nominee is talking about. if donald trump is talking about this that's what the media is going to cover. i've been a lot of campaigns. the only surprising thing is it hasn't been worse than it is. it probably would have ended the campaign -- >> you mean your own e-mails? >> yeah. i'm going back and making sure i have a double lockdown whatever you call it on my security now for sure. but -- but the point is that there's just over the next couple weeks, that's going to be -- it's eye rolling, i agree.
but there's potential for a big new development, that's where it could come. >> and they tend to put both of them together, the server and -- >> yeah, they enplainflate the thing. >> is there a kumbaya of the respect party after this is over? >> good god no i think it's going to be civil war in the republican party. >> james? >> just as we have never seen a campaigner like donald trump in my lifetime, which is now very long, we've never seen a crisis like this for a political party in the lifetime of anybody who is now around. probably the last thing that was comparable as we've discussed were 1912 in the bull moose party. of course the democrats had their dixiecrat party, and the vietnam war, but there was never a candidacy out of the norm, and see depending on -- assuming that trump loses, how people on
november 9th start saying who was to blame, it was just an aboration, was it the direction of the party in the last four years. i think that will be a very, very consequential evolution for the party as a whole. >> i want you to weigh in on chris christie. his aide testified he closed off on the lane closure of the wbg bridge and today once again he repeated he had no prior knowledge. is this the end of the road for chris christie and i mean that pun is intended. >> not a -- not being a garden state guy myself, i won't weigh in on the particulars of the insurance instance there. when chris christie was not rewarded and went all in, didn't get a position more honorable than being kind of the captive of war behind him at some rallies, i think that was a bad choice.
there was a decision by governor christie that is probably not going his direction. we'll see the almost consequences but it's hard to see how 2016 ends up with him in a better position. >> we probably won't see much of him on the campaign trail for donald trump? >> i think he's one of the people that was a really smart advisor around donald trump, in terms of focusing his message. he was around for that second debate, helping him prep for the second debate. so it's a huge distraction at the very least, that takes christie out of the game and out of the inner circle of donald trump at a time when he really needs him. >> the circus, show time. >> from russia with love. we're going to do a real prime or wikileaks, the history, both sid sides, the democrat it's russian charges. we'll give you the whole background so people can understand it because it's complicated. >> thank you, appreciate it. thank you, james. >> thank you, don. when we come back, what makes trump tick inside the mind of the candidate. yeah, a little. you're making money now, are you investing? well, i've been doing some research.
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amidor, visiting professor of the state of the new york, and the former department of psychi it, r try, and allan dershowtiz, a vey clever man for book titles, as well. i know you're not donald trump's psychologist -- >> i wouldn't be here if i was. i couldn't talk about it. >> you've seen a lot of him on the campaign trail. you can offer your assessment? what are we observing? >> first and foremost, people say how you can diagnose him, but i can i didding on nodiagno terms of psychology. i see the narcissism. if you look at the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder, this is someone who has an exaggerated sense of his importance.
he is very important as a nominee, but also has a very thing skin, some be who if you insult him, it enranges hges hi say anything that is remotely possibly interpreted as an insult, he will interpret it as an insult. i'm not hearing people talk about is donald trump appears to me, psychological, to be somebody very, very afraid. >> you say there is anger beneath anger is fear? >> always. almost always. beneath the kind of -- really it's rage that he expresses at his rallies and the debates and the interviews. i've been watching him for more than a year and watching interviews and extemporaneous speeches he's giving, not teleprompter speeches and he's got a lot of anger, and that really is based in fear. we know what he's afraid of. we know the walls he's trying to build. >> what?
>> he has many conspiracies he's worried about. i made a list. i won't read the whole thing. the election is going to be rigged, which is just entirely based in -- to coin secretary clinton's phrase, donald trump's reality and mr. trump's reality. there's no evidence of that and i'm not going to be the person who is going to litigate that. he's afraid of immigrants, both documented and undocumented. muslims, mexicans, the judge in the case against trump university because he's of mexican heritage. he's afraid of the dnc, the gop, believes there's conspiracies in all of these areas. secretary clinton, look at all the things he's certain secretary clinton and the clinton cartel are doing to him, from sending people to create violence in his rallies and we were talking alan and you reminded me of one other thing he's accusing her of and i'm forgetting what it is, but
there's such a long list of conspiracie conspiracies, including global warming, made up by the chinese. the media of course -- let's not leave you guys out -- >> yeah. >> on, and on. and i have to say, tom cruise's father conspired -- >> ted cruz? >> did i say tom cruise? i'm sorry for the slip. think about that. >> so you're nodding your head. are you nodding in agreement? >> i'm a little bit skeptical of trying to diagnose candidates generally. at one point i did disagree with, dr. amador, if he were his psychologist, he would be here today because donald trump would say he's the healthiest person to ever run for president and there's never been a movement more mentally table person, as he had his doctor foolishly,
almost no investigation come up with that medical report he was the greatest person in the world. but i want to analyze him rationally as a political candidate. i think what may appear to be mental illness or whatever, has a real rational. what he's doing is speaking to two audiences with two voices. he knows how to speak to his base, and he knows how to speak to the people who want to be riled up and at the same time, he then can speak the next day and say i didn't really mean to say that, i didn't mean that i want you to go out with pitch forks the day after the election and have a revolution, i really meant to say i'm going to do what al gore did. so he has this capacity and it's a brilliant capacity to actually speak to two different audiences with two different voices, and that can be dangerous. he's accused hillary clinton of doing the same thing. he said at the al smith dinner she has one public persona and one private persona. was he projecting what he himself does?
he's very hard to figure out but we have to take him at face value. >> you said mental illness. i don't know about that -- >> i wasn't saying -- >> you're analyzing him. >> i think maybe from a personal trait there is narcissism there, but i've often heard from different, you know, psychologists and psychiatrists that's not necessarily a bad thing to be narcissistic. >> it can be a good thing if you've got good impulse control, which he's clearly demonstrated he doesn't. if you look at the reports from his inner circle, from his running mate, his spokespeople, he's going to accept the results of the election and he contradicts them. his impulse control with the twitter wars. >> that's interesting to me is someone who is running for -- as leader of the free world is -- can tweet about a journalist or somebody who is enconventional because you would never get a mitt romney, or barack obama, or ronald reagan -- and there
wasn't twitter back then. he's tweeted about me. why does he care about what i think? >> he has no sense of priorities. anything that comes into his head he must respond to immediately and that's why he was so good in the first third of all three debates and then hillary clinton managed to press some buttons and then the other -- other donald trump comes out. and we don't know who the real donald trump is, and we're electing both of them. so you have to like both sides and both voices to cast the vote for him. >> our conversation continues on the other side of the break. we'll be right back.
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sgljtsds a . and we're back. donald trump and hillary clinton traded barbs at the al smith dinner. dr. xavier amador and alan dershowi dershowitz. we're continuing our conversation what leads donald trump to do some outlandish things and you believe? >> he has a long standing belief of paranoia. sometimes we should be paranoid and afraid, but this is somebody with a long standing of what we would refer to in psychology as pathological paranoia, meaning it's in the spectrum of mental
disorder potentially, or maybe you know actually. >> not just the personal trait? >> no this is not just about the election, and earlier alan said it was hillary clinton in part pushing his buttons. but remember he's espoused conspiracy theories going back to the academy of television and arts they were rigged against him personally. this is a personality trait and traits can be come pathology, yes. >> we have to be very careful. >> yes. >> we've had two experiences in my lifetime with people who were thought to be mentally ill. one of them was barry goldwater and when he ran in 1964, over a thousand psychiatrists in an article in "fact magazine," diagnosed him as mentally ill and today he'd be in the center of the republican guy, but then
we have james forestal, who was in charge of the cold war with the soviet union and he was raving paranoid, ultimately jumped out of the 15th floor of his hospital, killed himself, fearing that russian planes were coming. imagine having a secretary of defense who was paranoid so we have to understand the concept of mental illness is a serious one. we shouldn't use it politically just against people whose policies we don't like, and it's very important to give the benefit of the doubt to the candidate that what they're doing is calculated and rational without trying to diagnose them or attribute character traits to them. there may be character traits but when we vote, when we consider a candidate we have to consider them on the merits of their views, not the underlying psychology behind it. >> yeah. let's talk about cardinal dolan and the al smith dinner. cardinal dolan was sitting in
the middle of donald trump and hillary clinton. he shared this interesting moment, listen. >> and after a little prayer, mr. trump turned to secretary clinton and said you know you are one tough and talented woman, and he said this has been a great experience -- this whole campaign, as tough as it's been and she said to him and donald whatever happens we need to work together afterwards. >> so it was pretty tense last night. what does it say, that this is a show what we hear of what -- so again, who is the real -- >> cardinal dolan is a great guy and tries to look at the most positive side of everybody and he's a great reconciler and you have the best candidates between the great, they're going to put the best possible light. and we don't know if the cameras were on whether this was confidential. it certainly wasn't a confessional because cardinal wasn't be telling us what went on in confessional, but he brings out the best in people.
>> what is the difference between what we hear in public and what happens in private? >> everybody has a public side and a private side, that's not news, and that's not something that should surprise anybody. you know getting back to what are we voting for when we vote for an elected official, yes, there are views but also their actions, their behaviors and we look at what they do over time, hopefully, when we make an educated decision. so, i'm not arguing one way or the other about whether or not donald trump has mental illness and i want to be very clear about that. what i am saying however is a lot of people in the media and experts and pundits are saying why is he doing this, scratching their head and there is a psychological perspective. the reason he may be doing this and it appears that way to this psychologist is he does have a problem with narcissistic personality issues. >> i want to get to hillary clinton personality, too, as well. >> i know hillary clinton and she is exactly the same in private as she is in public.
there is no difference between the hillary clinton i know from martha's vineyard and from other places and the hillary clinton i see in the stage. i've also met donald trump. when i've met donald trump, he perfectly rational, a perfect gentleman. >> he's not the same person you see on stage? >> i was shocked when i see him on stage. they are completely different people. hillary clinton, you get the same person every time. >> do you agree with that? because i'm not -- people say it's hard to connect, that she's calculating and she's not warm, and when you meet her -- i have to say when you meet donald trump in person, he's not the same as when he's up on the stage. when i interviewed him and i see him on the stage, i say who is that person. >> i don't see any difference. >> and when you meet hillary clinton, as well, she's very warm in person, but not necessarily that warm when you see her on television, i have to be honest. what is that, doctor? >> one-on-one, it's very different than when you're in front of a crowd of 5,000 people and the cameras are on you and that's what i meant about there's public and private side. we're sitting here in front of
cameras and this isn't the same person exactly in terms of my ideas, in terms of my beliefs and integrity that i am in my living room. i don't talk exactly like this in my living room. what we're seeing is somebody who is reacting. he's not just promulgating views that he has. he's very reactive to what others say about him, to what others believe about him, things that are published about him. >> but when you said -- we talked about donald trump, you said someone who is -- who has a very high opinion of themselves. anybody who runs for president, don't you think they would have a high opinion? >> they better have high self-este self-esteem. >> what does that say about her? >> i'll speak to that in a few minutes. when someone says i'm the only one who can fix the problem that's beyond several esteem,
that's grand iiosity. what donald trump said about her, according to cardinal dolan that's my view of her, highly successful individuals, articulate individuals, but we certainly don't see the kind of behaviors in secretary clinton's past that we see with donald trump, the kind of language that was recorded in 2005 about women that is -- is -- well, i'll just say that. >> but he's the populous candidate and populous candidates have a rational basis for making the kind of appeals that he makes. so i want to take donald trump at face value without in any way analyzing him psychological and i say he has a rational basis for speaking to the two audiences with two voices. in the end, it didn't serve him well in the general election it. served him very well in securing his base. >> you can have a rational basis and it can still come from a
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