tv CNN Newsroom With Carol Costello CNN November 28, 2016 7:00am-8:01am PST
indeed talk with general david petraeus. he's doing that sometime this morning. it's rumored petraeus is up for the position of secretary of state. as you know, mitt romney is and also senator bob corker. in fact, trump will talk with romney and corker tomorrow. but today he's talking to general david petraeus. i want to bring in sara murray, because this is interesting, because david petraeus was convicted of giving classified information to his mistress so she could write a book. >> reporter: well, it certainly is an interesting meeting. look, donald trump's plate is packed full today but the meeting with petraeus which we expect later on this afternoon or this evening is one that could potentially be an opportunity for him to fill this secretary of state position that's been the subject of much palace intrigue. as you point out, petraeus would be an interesting pick for secretary of state really for any top level cabinet position because of the scrutiny he's faced for mishandling classified information. now, he did plead guilty to a misdemeanor count of mishandling
confidential information, but he resigned as cia director in the midst of this scandal as he was having an extramarital affair. the broader context of all of this is the battle for the secretary of state position that we are seeing play out in sort of an uncomfortably public way. that's going to continue not just today, but also tomorrow. sources are telling us that donald trump will be meeting with mitt romney as well as senator bob corker as he tries to flesh out his options for secretary of state. now, mitt romney isn't exactly a fan favorite even among some of donald trump's closest advisers. take a listen to what kellyanne conway had to say about the potential of romney being part of trump's cabinet. >> the number of people who feel betrayed to think that a governor romney would get the most prominent cabinet post after he went so far out of his way to hurt donald trump. there was the never trump movement and then there was mitt romney. he gave speeches against donald trump, he attacked his character. i'm all for party unity but i'm
not sure that we have to pay for that with the secretary of state position. >> reporter: now, tough words from kellyanne conway and it gives you an indication of how many people still remain in the mix for this position. we are talking corker, romney, petraeus and even rudy giuliani who made it no secret that he was interested in the secretary of state job. now, if you think mitt romney spent his weekend sitting around wondering what people are saying about him, wondering if he would get picked for the job, he certainly cast a nonchalant appearance on social media, posting this photo of himself with his wife as well as his children at the beach. i think we have that photo for you. saying no greater joy than making discoveries together with grandchildren. at least on social media, mitt romney is playing it cool. we will see what comes out of his meeting with donald trump tomorrow. >> it will be interesting. sara murray, thanks so much, live for us this morning. meantime, donald trump is lashing out, slamming the recount push in three states and at the same time, falsely claiming millions of people
voted illegally in an election he won. confused? here is president-elect trump's tweet. quote, in addition to winning the electoral college in a landslide i won the popular vote. if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally. of course there's absolutely no evidence to support that. but this hour, officials in wisconsin are holding a meeting, discussing how to conduct that recount after the green party pushed to retally the votes. cnn's senior washington correspondent jeff zeleny has more. >> reporter: the fact-checking continues even after the election. let's start with the fact that donald trump said he would have won the popular vote despite millions of people voting illegally. there's no evidence to support that at all. moving on to the recount potentially in wisconsin, that is being called for by jill stein, the green party candidate, who has been raising a lot of money, millions of dollars, for a potential recount in wisconsin. donald trump won wisconsin by some 22,000 votes.
the clinton campaign over the weekend said they would participate in this recount to oversee it, if you will, but they also said they had no evidence of any wrongdoing or that any different outcome would come out of a recount here. despite all that, the trump campaign, the trump new administration, is firing back aggressively. let's take a listen. >> this is a total and complete distraction and a fraud, and something that they should drop. we will sit there and look through ballots, we will win again for the second time and they will lose again for the second time. >> i was asked on cnn and elsewhere goodness, a thousand times, will donald trump accept the election results and now you have got the democrats and jill stein saying they do not accept the election results. the idea that we are going to drag this out now where the president-elect has been incredibly magnanimous to the clintons and the obamas is
pretty incredible. >> reporter: so there is a meeting happening at this hour in wisconsin to talk about the way forward for a recount. in all 72 counties across the state. now, you can request a recount as jill stein is doing, but since she was not within the margin of error by any means, she only had a few thousand votes, she will have to pay for that recount. they are discussing that now. it could start as early as thursday. again, important to point out even democrats believe this will not change the outcome of this at all, but this still may go forward until mid-december. carol? >> going to be a messy process. i just talked with an elections commission official and he says what if this stein camp goes to court to force a recount of all the paper ballots? electronic machines are backed up by paper ballots. can they recount three million paper ballots by december 13th? which is the date that's federally mandated? >> reporter: it is indeed. that is difficult to do. but the poipt hernt here, all o might be proceeding but no one
is disputing the fact donald trump is president-elect, he's meeting with potential people for his cabinet. this wisconsin situation may sort of drone on but one official said this is maybe giving false hope to people who don't accept the outcome of the election. the reality is even if wisconsin was overturned that would not give the election to hillary clinton. it's time to move on and most smart democrats realize that. >> that's right. wisconsin only has ten electoral votes, right? jeff zeleny, thanks so much. let's talk about all of this. with me is matt visor for the boston globe, ron brownstein from the atlantic and larry sabato, from the center of politics at the university of virginia. before we delve into this recount thing that's going on, i want to talk about general david petraeus, because it's just some might call it odd that general petraeus is being considered for secretary of state when he admitted guilt to mishandling classified information, and
isn't that -- isn't that what donald trump complained so bitterly about when hillary clinton served as secretary of state, that she mishandled classified information? >> carol, that was before the election. you should have wiped your server clean on november 8th. i think it's shocking you are calling these things from prior to the election. kidding, of course. look, obviously if he is picked and there's a large group of people now being considered for secretary of state, if he's picked, president-elect trump and the trump team will have to explain this. it's also true that just about everybody who knows general petraeus will tell you that he's a very, very able person. he did make a serious error, perhaps the president-elect is willing to give him a pardon, in a sense, and put his talents to use. i think that's a legitimate decision that he could make. >> you know, he did say also during the election, and i did hear you, larry, but mr. trump did say during the election,
ron, that what hillary clinton did was much, much, much, much, much worse than general petraeus. it seems like he was sort of setting this up even during the election process. >> look, i agree with larry. general petraeus obviously made a serious mistake but we are talking about a very accomplished person and it's kind of cutting up your nose to spite your face for the country for a future president to deny themselves of what he could bring to the table in any number of positions. in that sense, this is not surprising. but it is, against the context of the way donald trump talked about hillary clinton's handling of classified information makes it unusual. there's a broader point which is if you look at donald trump's agenda on foreign policy, it departs much more decisively from traditional republican thinking than it does on domestic policy and his kind of reassessment of the internationalist bent of the republican party, since eisenhower beat taft in 1952 and his reconsideration of alliances, of trade, of
immigration, our entire relationship with the world, it's hard to find someone who is both credible as secretary of state and shares those basic views. that's a very narrow needle to thread. >> it's obvious that members of trump's transition team are sort of in-fighting about who serves as secretary of state. kellyanne conway coming out and slamming mitt romney saying he said all sorts of mean stuff about donald trump. how could he even think of appointing him as secretary of state. congressman chris collins said on "new day" well, he had harsher terms. let's listen. >> what do i know about mitt romney? i know that he's a self-serving, egomaniac who puts himself first, who has a chip on his shoulder, that thinks he should be president of the united states. there's no love lost between me and mitt romney. i have called him a loser for the last six months. >> so matt, what do you make of this, that trump's transition team is openly, i don't know, campaigning for certain people
to become secretary of state? >> it's interesting, in some way not to be unexpected. donald trump has sort of put on a show a lot of times and it's hard to tell kind of how much of this is orchestrated by him or not. there's reports that he's upset with kellyanne conway for going so far. i don't know how much to believe about that. but it is striking and it's striking how much open dialogue there is among his advisers publicly, as well as privately, you would imagine. all the meetings are interesting, him meeting again with mitt romney tomorrow. you have the sense that trump was struck with mitt romney during that first meeting that they had, and genuinely impressed with him and maybe thought to consider him more than just having a showy meeting. >> okay. i want to move on -- go ahead, ron. is that you? >> just real quick, one thing to
consider about is that again, the breach between donald trump and the republican foreign policy infrastructure was much greater on the domestic side. you had literally dozens of the people who you would expect to be in all the deputy and assistant secretary positions at the pentagon and state department signing letters during the campaign, veterans of former republicans' administrations saying they did not believe he was qualified to be commander in chief. any of them watching what is happening to mitt romney, can any of them look at this and say this is something i want to go through, if in fact they did reach out and try to overcome that earlier enmity? what you are seeing is kind of this civil war on the foreign policy side playing out on national television in a way that i have got to think is discouraging to many of the others they might be looking to fill kind of the guts of the pentagon and the state department. >> larry, while all of this is going on, this recount is going to happen in wisconsin at any moment now. then trump tweeted out that he really could have won the popular vote had he campaigned in states like california and then he came out with a later tweet that said there were many
illegal voting -- there's fraud going on in california and in new hampshire and in virginia. what do you make of all of that? >> well, i would say first, the recount is a waste of time and money, in all probability, and therefore, i would agree with trump's team on that point. however, his tweets are making things worse. just to go through it very briefly, first he claimed he got an electoral landslide. electoral college landslide. 306 electoral votes, assuming he gets michigan in the end, is certainly a healthy margin but it's very close to what john f. kennedy got in 1960, what jimmy carter got in 1976. both of them won very close elections, as did donald trump. the difference being of course -- >> larry, i'm sorry. i have to interrupt you. we do have a serious breaking news alert to tell our viewers about. it's very disturbing. we understand that the ohio state university in columbus has issued an active shooter alert
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disturbing news to share with you right now. we have a little more information. the ohio state university in columbus, ohio has issued an active shooter alert on campus. moments ago, the school posted this on twitter. quote, buckeye alert. active shooter on campus. run, hide, fight. watts hall, 19th and college. deborah feyerick is with us with a little more information. this is a huge university, 66,000 students. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: well, we do know there's a huge response right now. the police are on scene, other agencies responding as well. the fire department there also. that part you read out, the run, hide, fight, that is really a warning to the students. that's what they are supposed to do. first they run. if they encounter anybody, then they fight. i'm sorry, then they hide and
then they fight. so that is normal sort of when you are dealing with an active shooter situation. that's what they are conveying to the students. right now we know that police are responding as are other law enforcement agencies and they are trying to determine exactly what is going on. we are told that it is in an area -- it's on the campus. we are trying to confirm that right now. those are the few details that we have as we work the phones. >> all right. deborah feyerick, stand by. i will let you get to finding out more information. do we have an ohio state student? okay. we are working on getting an ohio state student who did hear gunshots. let's bring in tom fuentes, our law enforcement analyst. this is a huge, huge campus right in the middle of a large city in ohio. how challenging is this for authorities? >> well, the biggest challenge from the beginning is to make sure there actually was a shooting and that they are
actually pursuing something that actually occurred. we have many instances where somebody thinks they heard a shot, heard a loud noise or something, and then later they can't verify there actually was a shooter. first we have to verify that there was. i haven't heard if that's already been done. i'm just joining you now. if that's already been done, they have to determine that first, then try to find out from there do they have somebody who just is randomly going to shoot other people, if it's a personal dispute between a couple of people where somebody has a vendetta to go after an individual. all of those are yet to be determined. >> we understand columbus fire is also on the scene. we don't know exactly what that means. it could mean there are injuries. we just don't know anything. you are absolutely right. it's very early on. the alert ohio state sent out is intriguing. it said for students to run, hide and fight. that's new, isn't it? >> i have heard that in other shooting situations where
authorities have put out that exact same statement. i know when we had the report of a hospital shooting i believe at the naval facility in san diego they put out a very similar thing. i commented on the air at the time but if you are in a hospital bed, where are you going to run to, where are you going to hide and how are you going to fight. just as a generic thing the authorities put out or the school authorities put out to pretty much try to cover themselves and tell everybody we have warned you do something. >> tom, stand by. we have that ohio state student on the phone right now. his name is wyatt. hi, wyatt. >> hi. >> what are you hearing? >> we heard the gunshots about maybe a half hour ago from our dorm across the street. we can't see much, but we did hear these sirens from across the street and they are still going. >> you are at 19th and college? >> yes. we are just across the street.
>> did you hear -- i mean, do you know for sure it was gunfire? >> we can't know for sure, but we did hear like three or four things that would sound like gunshots, then we heard sirens come so we assume they were gunshots. >> so that alert, did it come over your phone from ohio state? >> yes. there's a school-wide alert we get through text message from ohio state that tells us to stay safe. >> what are you doing to stay safe? >> we are just staying in our room. no one's allowed to leave our dorm. we are going to stay safe. >> did someone come through the halls and tell you to stay put? >> no. no one came through the halls. we got the text message. in the lobby they are telling us we have to go back into our rooms. >> got you. it must be nervewracking for you not knowing exactly what's going on with what you've heard.
>> right. it's very scary. we don't know much. we just know there was an active shooter across the street. >> we are getting now pictures from wbns, a local affiliate of ours from columbus. we are seeing police vehicles on the scene right now. what can you see from your window? >> we can see about the same thing. we just see a bunch of police cars and ambulances around the hall where the shooting supposedly took place. >> is this -- is this sort of thing still surprising to you that something like this could happen on your campus? >> it is surprising. i know there's a lot of people that go here but it's still surprising to see an incident like this, especially when it's so close to you. it's a scary thing. >> do you have your roommate in the room with you? are you alone? >> no, i'm with my roommate. >> that's a good thing. have you called your family? >> yes. yes. i told them i was safe.
>> so was it your mom? >> it was my dad. i will call my mom after this. >> oh, my goodness. your mom's not going to be happy with you, wyatt. >> i know. >> what did your dad say to you? >> he just wanted to make sure that i'm safe and wanted to see if i knew anything that was going on. first he wanted to make sure i was safe. >> what state is your dad in? >> he's also in ohio. he's up in the cleveland area. >> so he's far away. >> yeah. >> i don't know. this could drag on for a long time. i just can't imagine how you're feeling along with your roommates. >> right. it's a scary thing for sure. we don't know much of what's going on. but the fact it's so close makes it a lot scarier. >> going back to the sounds you heard that might be gunfire, were they really loud? did they come in quick succession? >> they did come in quick succession.
from where we were, we could just like faintly hear something that sounded like they could be like pops, but then the sirens came so we kind of assumed what they were and we got the notification saying they were shots fired. that's where we kind of assumed they were gunshots. >> wyatt, i will let you go so you can call your mom. you better do it right when you get off the phone. thank you. >> i will. thank you. >> i want to go back to tom fuentes. we are seeing pictures of the scene right now. i don't know how much -- >> yes, carol, if you look at that, you look at the photos of the scene, you will see they have yellow police line tape spread across the road. that indicates to me that they have a contained crime scene. they are not looking for an active shooter, i don't think, running around because everybody outside of that yellow tape seems to be pretty calm and more or less standing around. to me, just looking at these aerial photos, i would say whatever they have, it's contained in that building or
near that building since they have the police tape keeping everyone out, and people that are on the outside aren't exactly being told to shelter in place or run back in their buildings. they are going about their business or standing around watching to see what happens next. to me, i think this looks like a contained situation and at least the active shooter part of this may be called off pretty soon. >> it's likely something happened with all of this police activity on campus. >> right. it appears so. because they have fire department vehicles, ambulances, police cars, all standing by. whatever is happening i think they believe to be contained inside the perimeter of that yellow police tape. >> is it easier for authorities to deal with shootings when universities are in the middle of a major metropolitan area? >> i don't think it's ever ease
y y for them. we have had shootings in rural areas and they wonder if the shooter got out of the area and ran into the woods. obviously in an urban environment like this university and the capital of ohio, it's a large urban area, it would be difficult. just the nature, the fact you see so many people standing around, it doesn't seem like they would be in fear of their lives if they are just standing around watching. >> i hope not. i want to bring in a former nypd sergeant, also a law enforcement analyst. joe, i know we have very little information to go on. you heard what tom has been saying. you heard from that student i interviewed who said he heard three pops that sounded like gunfire. when you survey this scene, what do you see? >> yeah. i was just looking at the video there. nobody seemed to be in a big rush. we saw something like this happen in jfk recently where there was a couple of what people thought were gunshots and everyone panicked and it turned out luckily to be nothing. let's hope this is the case here. a lot of people are just
standing around. i think if there was something that was really going on, i think law enforcement would have these people moving along and you know, put them some place in safety. i see the tweets went out from ohio state university, they got the message out quick which is excellent. i think social media plays a big role in these things going forward. >> exactly. i know you work at a university here in new york city, so that ohio state sent out this particular warning to students, run, hide, stay safe, universities have really worked on drills so that students will be safe during these kinds of situations. >> yes. absolutely. we have even a cuny alert that goes right to your cell phon via text message or you can follow on twitter or facebook. i think the text message is the way to go because every kid basically has a cell phone. it's a way to get information out quickly to the group and
yes, run, hide and then fight is of course the last version that is taught. >> so are there drills for students, fresh minnesomen comi because the word fight, it's like how do you fight a person who has the gun? >> that's the last resort measure. that's if you are cornered, this is it, there's no other option that you can do. hopefully you can go for the element of surprise. that's when we teach the kids, in the event this happens, you can escape immediately, do so. you run out of an exit door, whatever, staircase, whatever it may be. if you're trapped somewhere, tried to hide. either a closet, under a table, somewhere out of sight. that's basically what you're doing because the shooter's going to be just looking for those live targets. if they don't see anything they might move on to it. the school has even retrofitted the doors where they can put shields up so the shooter couldn't even look into a room to see if somebody was in there.
they are trying to do the best they can under the circumstances that we are seeing nowadays. >> okay. i didn't hear the end part of what you said but we understand ohio state students got this emergency text, in fact that's what a student told me that i interviewed a little earlier, that the warning came over a text and you're right, social media and iphones play a huge part in keeping students safe on campuses these days. >> yes. we have these retrofitted doors now that you can't see in and it's a way so that the shooter, when they are walking by down a corridor, they look into the classrooms, they can't see anything. this is an extra protection for the kids. >> i'm getting eyewitness accounts. this is from an ohio state student who is 22, a senior at ohio state. he was in class at the time of the shooting. i will read this to you.
you can comment afterwards. anthony says there's a lot of police and fire trucks and an ambulance outside the building. the officers are putting on kevlar vests and have big weapons. i can't see anyone going inside the building. he must be talking around 19th and college, because that's where the sound of gunfire was reported, he says there's just so many cops here. we heard a lot of sirens. i was in class and everyone got a text message at the same time from the emergency alert. someone said they heard popping right before we got the alert but i didn't hear it. we are in shelter in place right now in the building next door. a lot of information, right? >> -- key information as to what the situation is there. you still have there was a lot of what sounded like gunfire that was heard by some people even though this student didn't hear it. now you have a huge police response. the way to set up a perimeter around that building, they may still believe there's a shooter in the building or they are going to try to be certain and
do a building clearing exercise which can take a long time to go room to room, closet to closet, every possible place an individual could hide. you could have a situation where individuals were shot and then the shooter might have killed himself, might already be dead or might be hiding inside the building. or they could be holding hostages also, is another possibility. right now it just doesn't seem that they have -- that they believe they have a shooter at large anywhere else but inside that yellow police tape perimeter. >> so how long will these students have to stay in place, do you think? >> they have to make sure this building is perfectly clear before they do anything. it also depends on the type of weapon that's being alleged, too. you want to create an even bigger perimeter if there's a long gun like a rifle or shotgun. get those kids to safety. right now, the best thing is to have them stay where they are until law enforcement can go room to room, closet to closet and search.
this is a very trying time for law enforcement, too. this is a very difficult task. they don't know who or what they are actually looking for. >> do i still have deb feyerick with me? okay. all right. she's on the phone with her sources right now. i'm not going to bother her at this moment but for those viewers just joining us, there was an active shooter alert reported at ohio state university in columbus, ohio. it's a very large place, 66,000 students, right in the middle of a large municipality, columbus, ohio. students, teachers, faculty, everyone urged to shelter in place and avoid the area. just a few moments ago, probably about 45 minutes ago, this buckeye alert came out from ohio state university. active shooter on campus, run, hide, fight. watts hall, 19th and college. that specifically is from the ohio state emergency management team. now students are in their dorm rooms, locked in place. some students are still in class. they are also locked in place. they all got this message, run,
hide and fight on their iphones, via text message. some got it on facebook, some via twitter. so the campus has come the a screeching halt at this time. you can see lots and lots of police vehicles around 19th and college. that's where the sounds that some thought were gunfire rang out. i want to bring back in tom fuentes because he's an expert in analyzing police scenes and telling us what they mean. what can you see, tom? >> i don't see anything different in the last few minutes than we have been seeing, and that is they set that yellow police perimeter tape around the scene as they believe the scene to be, and everyone on the outside of that tape is just casually watching. to me it indicates they are not believing there's an active shooter running around on that campus threatening other people, that whatever occurred, the police believe it was within the perimeter of that tape and inside that building and then as we have talked about, the room
to room search is a very methodical, very difficult problem. however, if they hear additional shots, then they are probably going to just go storming in there and try to stop whoever is shooting. but you do have a good possibility the shooter may have shot a couple of people and then shot himself and the whole thing could be over but the police don't know that yet. it will be difficult for them to do the methodical search to determine that it's over. >> all right. i want to bring joe jacaloni back in, too. some students are still trapped inside of buildings and as tom said, police are probably going from room to room searching everywhere in these very large buildings on campus where they suspect this gunfire emanated from. this could go on for a very long time. >> yes, it can. it has to be like tom said, very methodical. they have to look in every closet, every crevice, wherever it may be where somebody could be hiding. if they encounter -- >> hey, joe, i'm going to cut
you off. we have an eyewitness. let's listen. >> i was going to class and just saw people running and was nervous. i was like oh -- >> explain how you were able to see a body. >> i walked towards where people were running from. >> reporter: you told me the name of that building? that's on woodruff? >> um-hum. >> reporter: tell us what happened. you were on your way to class? >> just saw people running, cops, sirens, everything. >> reporter: you saw someone on the ground? were they saying anything? >> i don't know. that's all i got. >> reporter: can you share your name? >> scott. >> reporter: what year are you? >> fifth year senior. >> reporter: b-e-e-t-l-e? >> "d." >> reporter: thank you. >> it appears there may have been some injuries arising out of this incident. we don't know that for sure. we just heard what that eyewitness said. let's talk to another student,
andrew hinton. hi, andrew. >> hi. >> where are you right now? >> i'm in the residents hall building right next to scott dining hall. >> is it anywhere near 19th and college? >> yes. it's very near it. >> so that's where another student said he heard gunfire right around 19th and college. did you hear anything? >> i did. >> what did you hear? >> i was originally walking to class and when i saw people running all directions, i heard two or three shots and i was grabbed by some guy and told get in the building, and i have been in here since. >> are you in a classroom? >> no. it's like a dormitory style building. >> are there other people with you?
>> not currently. i'm just sitting in a hallway. >> so what's going through your mind right now? >> well, i'm looking out the window and there's cops circling the dining hall with weapons drawn. i'm just waiting it out, i guess. my friend sent me a picture of a guy dead on the ground outside of the chemical engineering building so it's kind of scary. >> when you say down on the ground, did that person appear to be injured, could you visibly see any injuries? >> he was very much deceased. >> oh, well of course, cnn can't confirm that right now but i hope that's not true. we just don't know yet. >> yeah. i hope it's not true either. >> so are police going through the building that you're in now checking different -- >> no. no.
>> did you see them go into any other buildings nearby? >> i did not. i saw them walking around the dining hall. >> that this sort of thing could have happened on your campus, does it surprise you? >> yes. it does. it was a regular day for me up until right now. >> then you got -- did you get a text or how did you know other than the guy grabbing you, did you also get a text from your university? >> yeah, shortly after i was, you know, grabbed or whatever, buckeye alert said there was an active shooter on campus and my teacher e-mailed shortly after and said stay where you are, class is canceled. >> when you get a text from your university saying run, hide, fight, what's -- what is that like? >> i don't know, just probably the first thing -- i don't know.
i mean, like what can you say? in that type of situation, you just got to -- if you're in hiding, stay in hiding. if you're not in hiding, run to hiding. if you have to fight, fight. i don't know. >> andrew hinton, one last thing. did you call your parents? >> i did. i called my mom right after i got in this building. >> what was that conversation like? >> she's very worried but i assured her everything was okay as far as my safety. >> is she far away? >> yeah. she's two and a half hours away. >> i'm glad you called her and you stay in place and stay safe. thanks so much for joining me this morning. >> thank you. have a good one. >> you try to. all right. i want to bring back in tom fuentes and joe giacoloni.
is deb feyerick off the phone yet? she's not. okay. tom, could you discern anything from what andrew told me? >> you talking tom fuentes? >> tom fuentes. >> no, not really. we have got -- many times in these situations we have individuals that see or hear things but don't actually see what we really want, which may be impossible, is an eyewitness to who is doing the shooting. we don't have that, or what the circumstances were or what security cameras might show as far as individuals in that area, or in that building. or in the hallways. any of that type of information. we still don't have that. >> tom, we do have a bit of new information. i'm sorry to interrupt you. i want to go to deb feyerick because there have been injuries.
andrew was right about that. what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, what we are now learning is that the fire department is confirming, the columbus fire department is confirming at least seven individuals have been taken to area hospitals. we are calling the hospitals right now but we do know there have been injuries. those seven people are being transported. we are waiting for a number of calls from multiple law enforcement agencies which are responding, trying to gauge exactly what is going on on that campus. but we can tell you, you can see the heavy police presence there. they are trying to block off some of the streets, keep people away, run, hide, fight as you have been saying. that is strategic. that's what law enforcement is teaching individuals, whether it's at a school or an office. those are the steps you take. first you run, you get as far away from the gunman as you possibly can. then you hide, then if worse comes to worse, you fight. right now you can see it's secure. seven individuals have been transported to local area hospitals. that's what we have for you so far.
>> we don't know how they were injured? >> reporter: we do not. nor do we missouknow the extent their injuries. we are reaching out to the hospital right now to try to determine specifically what kind of injuries they sustained. >> i have a lot of friends in columbus. they are all at the scene right now. they are speaking to many people barricaded inside of buildings and bathrooms of buildings. the police are advising students and faculty, anybody at ohio state to stay where they are. here you have it from the osu emergency management team, buckeye alert. continue to shelter in place. wait for police officers directions. please contact police 911 only if you have information. i suspect i know why officials are asking students only to call 911 if they have information, because the lines are probably clogged. >> yes. we want to make sure that when you have a real emergency, the police will be able to get to exactly those students or the faculty that needs the help.
we don't want them running to places where they don't need to be right now. it's just very important and listen, sitting in the hallway is not hiding. i hope that gentleman is listening, can find himself a nice hiding spot. because that's not a good place to stay. >> i know students can listen to cnn on their phones, on their iphones so say that again. what should they do if they are inside a building right now? >> if they are locked up in their building right now they need to find a hiding spot. sitting in the hallway, sitting out in the classroom in open view is not doing so. if there's no place to hide, for instance, like a closet or something like that, they should be far away from the door so if anybody is peeking in, they can't see you. that's the plan. it's not perfect but you know what? it will work in most situations. >> so if i'm in my dorm room, should i barricade the door? >> yes. you can barricade your door. you can put your bed in front of it. you are trying to make yourself a harder target. you would want this person to
just give up trying to gain access to you or your room or your classroom, whatever it may be, and just keep on walking. that's the idea. generally in these shooting cases, unfortunately, these people try to shoot as many people as they can. so getting tied up trying to gain access to a location is not really beneficial to them in their mindset at that moment. >> so when you hear that seven people have been transported to area hospitals with injuries, what does that tell you about this incident on ohio state's campus? >> well, what i'm hoping is that this is people who maybe have been trampled down during the initial stages of this. i'm hoping they are not gunshots. i think everyone else is thinking the same thing. we just, and this is what happens sometimes in a mass panic. people do get hurt, they fall down, people just keep on running, unfortunately, and people step on hands and toes and they will break legs. we are hoping those are minor
injuries, we're hoping that's the case. we can also, we have to keep an eye open for any information. if we are looking for a mass amount of ambulances showing up, this could be another indication that something else is definitely more nefarious going on. >> i'm looking at ohio state's campus newspaper called "the lantern" and the students are reporting the news as they see it. they say police are now surrounding lane avenue garage, s.w.a.t. vans are present, the bomb squad as well. tom, i will go back to you for this. that could just be a precautionary measure, right? >> it could be. we just don't know if they have more specific information, or if any of the injured that were transported, they would all be accompanied by police officers and if they are in a position to say how they would receive their injury, that would be important information for the officers. the problem, too, is that if you have a large number of people that may have been shot, it
would indicate that this might be an individual wanting to just kill anybody he encounters and not a specific vendetta of going after one person or one professor or somebody, one or two people, that there may be a grievance that that individual has. that's more troubling that you would have somebody that just wants to shoot people and doesn't care who he shoots or how many. but the fact this they have got this perimeter that they have set up for awhile now, almost very early on in the aerial coverage that we have, has shown that they put that yellow tape up which would indicate to me that the police had a good indication that whatever they were dealing with is inside that yellow police perimeter. another reason for telling the students to stay sheltered, to stay out, is just keep them off the streets. often in these situations, you might have a plainclothes detective responding with a gun drawn running down the street and then a bunch of people see that and call the police and say i just saw an active shooter
running down the street. we have had that in a number of these situations, where individuals mistake police officers that are not in uniform for possible shooters who are involved in this. >> also, tom, we have learned the fbi has been called in. what will the fbi start to do now? >> well, in a situation like this, the other federal agencies, state and county agencies, that come in are there to provide assistance to the primary department that has jurisdiction. if this was not a terrorist incident, it's going to be under the jurisdiction of either the campus police or the columbus city police and they will be in charge of this but they will welcome all assistance they can get. that would include support to process the crime scene. they might have multiple crime scenes where they need additional forensic teams to assist and they may have leads that go outside of the local jurisdiction that they might want assistance from the federal agencies.
that would be the primary reason, just to provide assistance. now, if it somehow turned out that it was a terrorist act, the fbi would need to be there as early as possible and be involved in the investigation as much as possible, because it could be fbi jurisdiction if it turned out to be terrorism. we don't know that. but it's always a possibility. they need to have the agencies on site to provide assistance immediately. >> we do not. all we know, there was an active shooter alert. we know seven people have been injured. they have been taken to area hospitals. we don't know the extent of their injuries. deborah feyerick has been working her sources and has a little bit more information to share. what have you got, deb? >> reporter: yeah. just to sort of play on what tom just said, there's a huge response and all the local agencies are in fact answering the call. you have the sheriff's department that is on scene, have y you have the police department, the ohio state public safety
officers, atf is there on scene as well, as well as the fbi and again, this is all coordinated and i just spoke to a number of law enforcement officials. they plan for this. they rehearse for this. they make sure that when there is some sort of active shooting situation that in fact, people are able to respond and respond as a team. this coordinated effort is massive and you can see some of the larger vehicles that are being brought in right now. again, they don't quite know and the people that i'm speaking with, it is so fresh and so new that they are waiting for the information to come into them that you can see the response they are mounting is significant. seven people have been injured, some people have been taken to local hospitals and so right now, they are right in the thick of it and we are developing more information. >> in case you are watching and have family at ohio state, two of the injured parties were transported to grant hospital, two were taken to the ohio state university hospital. the other three went to different hospitals. i wish i could name them, but i
can't. tom, that large vehicle, what is that? tom? all right. we just lost tom. joe, do you know what that large vehicle is? >> it may be a bomb disposal type of truck. i don't know specifically yet. i don't want to speculate. it could be a s.w.a.t. team inside. we don't know exactly what's going to happen with this. >> what we are looking at now, this is video that kids have taken, young adults, not kids, are taking outside of their -- outside of windows. this is what's happening outside and what they are witnessing right now. if you are in a situation like this, should you be at a window, joe? >> no. i mean, you want to stay away from windows, away from doors, in a corner somewhere. if you had to, if you think -- if law enforcement believed there was a bomb in there and do
you, too, you should take cover underneath a desk or whatever in case there is an explosion. it might be able to prevent some of the glass or from the ceiling coming, raining down on you. this is just something else that they go over in training. unfortunately, these buildings aren't prepared to withstand a blast. they have a lot of glass in them. makes them look pretty but they are very vulnerable to these kinds of incidents. there's just something that happens in the design. i think going forward as college campuses are being created, i think they will factor this into less glass and more of a security measure. it doesn't look pretty but it does the job. >> i'm getting more information so bear with me. we understand eight people have now been transported to area hospitals from the ohio state university campus. we understand one person is in critical condition. we don't know if these people are faculty, students, visitors, who they were. but eight in all transported to
hospitals. one in critical condition. we also have new video coming in to us with a person on the ground. we can't determine -- you know, anything for sure from this, but it does appear that from these pictures, is this the one, where the person is on the ground? all right. is he in front of the fire truck? it appears that that person is on the ground. we don't know that person's condition. again, eight people now transported to area hospitals from ohio state university. joe, i want to bring you back in. atf is involved. the campus newspaper is reporting that there's a bomb squad on campus. s.w.a.t. of course is involved. this is a massive operation now. >> absolutely. this position we have on any type of college incident or any active shooting, it's anybody's coming. you make sure this investigation gets done properly and if there is an active shooter, to be able
to terminate it as fast as possible. that's why the s.w.a.t. teams are there with the long guns. they are more effective than small arms like an officer carrying a nine millimeter or whathave you. the atf will be involved, especially if there's a firearm in it. they will help trace the gun where it comes from. there are probably units right now, investigators, detectives from the local police department that are running social media checks to see if there was any threats via facebook or any other social media platform. i think that social media canvas is being done as we speak. there are a lot of social media platforms out there that we don't know about. if you remember the shooting they had in oregon, he had posted it on a platform that he was going to do this. investigators have that in the back of their mind and will be of course tapping into the internet and seeing what happens, seeing if they can find something. maybe they can get a name. >> as i'm looking at these buildings on campus, they are
huge and also, they are also apparently searching a parking garage also, a huge gigantic structure. this could take some time. >> this could go on for a number of hours. they have to make sure, you know, unfortunately, we don't know the extent of the injuries so that's something that would play a big role into how long this goes on. if there's minor injuries and they are not gunshots, this might end a lot faster. but if there is, which we hope there's not, this could go on for quite some time. >> i just want to ask my producers if they could turn around sound from one of the students that we interviewed, especially the first one who was trapped in his dorm room, because students are trapped in their dorm rooms, they are probably barricading their doors, they call their parents. their parents, i can't even imagine how freaked out the parents are at this point along with these students. they are waiting for somebody to show up and tell them what's going on. i just can't imagine how that feels.
>> yes. i believe the parents are probably freaking out more than the students are. that's just the way parents are. but the students, their best bet is to stay where they are until given direction to leave. like tom said earlier, we don't want them running around, outside of the location. they are safer where they are currently at the moment. the police department had this building cordoned off so i believe they have it isolated and contained. that's the number one rule in these things for law enforcement. isolate and contain. then they can work their way through each individual room. the way they go about doing it is that there's a mass amount of officers that enter a location and then they leave officers behind everywhere they go so that basically you take over an area and it's kept that way so that nobody can try to escape. >> we have some brighter news coming out of columbus right now. two of the patients, two of the injured on the ohio state campus were taken to grant medical center.
the public relations person, mark hopkins, he says quote, i can tell you that the patients have all -- i'm sorry. i will read this again. quote, i can tell you that the patients all have non-life threatening injuries. he could not provide any information on ages or gender or the type of injuries but at least that's a bit of bright news that these patients have non-life threatening injuries, right, joe? >> yes. absolutely. if they were gunshots i know they would be reluctant to say so, but until they get the okay i guess from law enforcement. i think those are good words to use, non-life threatening, and let's hope they are minor abrasions or cuts or broken arms or legs. that's what we are hoping for on this. until we know more. there are some other ambulances, i know i see in some of the videos they are pulling up. i don't know how old that video is but this is something where
they keep them at bay just in case they discover an active shooter and there are more victims, they will be able to get them to the necessary hospitals. it's not unusual that they split up the people to go to different hospitals, either. we have to know which one, there's the major trauma center and that would be a good indication of maybe what's going on, too. >> i was just looking at ohio stadium. that thrilling ohio state/michigan game just over the weekend. the campus was probably elated because ohio state won, now this had to go down. in case you are just joining us, there's an active shooter at ohio state university. the university's emergency management team sent out a text message and also they tweeted for students to run, hide or fight. this gunfire apparently erupted at 19th and college on ohio state's campus. all right. i got matthew horace on the phone. i want to go to deb feyerick first. we know eight people have been
trancesported to area hospitals. one is in critical condition. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: this is a large open campus. i spoke to somebody who used to do security there, who says it is very difficult to secure this particular campus because it is so large, so spread out. it does look like a lot of the law enforcement is localized at that one building. i spotted some sheriffs, some police. the fire department obviously is on scene to transport anybody who is wounded. a huge presence there right now as this is ongoing. >> you stand by, because i'm sure you will have new information for us in the hours to come on cnn. that does it for me. thank you so much for joining me. "at this hour with berman and bolduan" starts now. hello. i'm kate bolduan. john berman is off today. we are continuing to follow the breaking news coming in unfortunately at this hour, an
active shooter reported on the campus of ohio state university. we will continue to show you live pictures as we get them in. a lot not known, we need to say off the bat, of what is going on on the ground. the columbus fire department has just confirmed eight people have been transported to area hospitals. gunshots have been heard. the first message to students and faculty and employees came via a tweet and text earlier this morning, i think just about 10:00 a.m. this morning, saying this. buckeye alert, active shooter on campus, run, hide, fight. watts hall, 19th and college. a message a little bit later cautioned everyone to continue to shelter in place in the north campus area. a lot to go over. we are waiting for more information to come in as we are continuing to follow these live pictures. let's bring in our team of reporters and analysts. cnn law enforcement analyst will be joining us, deborah feyerick