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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  November 29, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PST

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from russia with love. how will donald trump deal with vladimir putin? this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. reports of russia's meddling in our election just the tip of the iceberg? what is putin's goal? plus, a car plows into pedestrians at ohio state university. the driver jumps out and begins stabbing. the attacker is dead now. what appears to be the attacker's facebook page is full of threats and warning to america. was it terrorism? we'll discuss that. the man accused of killing nine people at a church in south carolina, the judge says
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he can represent himself. will survivors and family members be forced to come face-to-face with dylan roof? how to discuss that is senior contributor, and the author of security mom. good to have you both on. the new facebook post tonight is disturbing. let me read a portion of it. seeing my fellow muslim being tortured, raped and killed in burma lead to a boiling point. if you want us to stop carrying out lone wolf attacks, make people with dala al sham. we will not let you sleep unless you give peace to the muslims. you will not celebrate or enjoy any holiday. by the way, btw says every single muslim who disapproves of my actions is a sleeper cell waiting for a signal. i'm warning you, oh, america. what does this tell us about investigators proceed with this kind of information, julia?
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>> well, this is a lot of proof, at least from artan himself that he was motivated by some form of terrorism, but what we don't know at this stage, don, is this the rantings of a guy who had self-radicalized, has no contact with anyone, or has he been in contact or motivated and directed by isis and those abroad? that's where the investigation is going to lead. so we can call it terrorism because it looks like it is and he's certainly pronounced something akin to terrorism at least in these facebook posts, but that does not prove that this was directed by some terrorist organization. that's the challenging, if not chilling aspect of this form of violence that we're seeing throughout the united states, which is just these -- let's be honest, just these guys online, waking up, you know, expressing some sentiment and then using a car, a very easy weapon to get, and a soft target like a university which is clearly cannot be made harder because
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you want students to be able to walk around and engage in all of the things that happen at colleges and universities. >> michael, this man also spoke back in august with campus magazine for a brief profile, humans of ohio state. here is what he said. it was from a quote from "the lantern." he said, i wanted to pray in the open but i was scared with everything going on in the media. i'm a muslim. it's not what the media portrays me to be. if people look at me, a muslim praying, i don't know what they're going to think. what's going to happen. but i don't blame them. so the tone of his comments is so different. does this speak to how he became radicalized or the process of becoming radicalized? >> there's also the internal thinking versus what he wanted to externally express to a campus publication, right? we don't know enough about his psychology. based on that facebook quote you just read, dallah and al sham, that means the state in syria or the levant. that would lead me to suspect
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isis and propaganda had something to do with this. the fact he was quoting and praising anwar al-awlaki. everybody who commits an isis inspired attack,ala lauky is the gateway starter. i would classify it as almost an open and shut act of jihad or terrorism. however, juliette is quite right, isis directed, we don't know. the likelihood is small. isis inspired, probably greater. i mentioned this on cnn, on your show many months ago, the isis defector who i keep referring to who was part of isis's state security apparatus trained up foreign fighters and he has informants and people on the inside who feed him information, told me isis was looking to hypothesis in the united states, particularly minnesota and particularly drawing from the somali community there. then we saw the attack in st. cloud by a somali american. i asked do you know anything about this? and he said all i know is isis
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is trying to set up recruitment centers in north america, not necessarily people who have been to syria and iraq, but people who become agents of the caliphate and go around and cultivate and recruit more people. it is not to say this is what happened here, but -- >> you're looking to -- >> if you asked me, and we did, i was on cnn six hours ago and i said not enough information. in is pretty dispositive to me. >> do you agree, juliette? >> i do. i think the investigation now will be are there foreign ties, was there conversations with people abroad or other people here. so i think, you know, he's given us enough information to suggest what his motivation is. if i could just add one thing here, you know, during this time in which you're going to get isis to try to inspire people to do these kinds of attacks, one of the things we have to look at and i have to just applaud them publicly is the response apparatus at this university. the text that went out, the
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communication, the quick response to kill him, all of those are part of how we need to think about our counter terrorism strategy, which is no one else died, thankfully, and there was a very strong response. so i'm not -- because you're not going to be able to stop every single one of these guys, so it is part of the narrative of what is going on right now. i think it is important to say, look, this was a horrible incident, but also applauding the investments we've made in public safety, first responders, the community, the college, the university, to engage the students to protect themselves, and on earlier segments you showed pictures of what the students were doing. >> juliette, that being said would you mention more blood shed was prevented by this heroic officer. without that it could have been worse and we owe him a debt of gratitude. >> that's exactly right. thank you. >> go on. >> no, that's exactly right, don. i think, you know, when you
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think about homeland security strategy given the terrorist threat we have now, there's going to be a focus on immigration, refugees, preventing this, cyber controls, making sure they don't have access to training radicalization. but there has to be an equal emphasis on preparing ourselves for these kind of attacks, and the university did what many universities have done. it has clearly put investments in the technology communication and the active shooter protocols to minimize the harms. unfortunately in the world that michael and i are in, that's also a success, right, no one else die. >> michael, juliette, i thank you very much. i want to turn to the latest on presidential election, donald trump's search for secretary of state. he is selena zito here in studio. good evening to both of you. sumlin, today's attack in ohio is a reminder whoever donald trump picks for secretary of state will have to deal with terror in so many ways. are we closer to learning who is
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likely to get the job? >> reporter: don, i think it is safe to say the pace of the meeting goes and interviews surrounding the secretary of state job really is picking up, certainly indicating that trump is right now putting a large focus on filling out this top spot. over the course of today and tomorrow combined he will have met with three of the top contenders for this job, today meeting with general petraeus, tomorrow meeting with tennessee senator bob corker and having a dinner meeting with mitt romney. we also know that rudy giuliani still is under contention for this post as well, and it is really this guilliani versus romney infighting within the trump transition team that really is ruling the headlines right now. that said, trump transition officials emphasize the decision over secretary of state is donald trump's and donald trump's alone, and he has not yet made that decision. he is, however, moving forward with other cabinet picks, transition officials confirming that he has chosen for hhs
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secretary, health and human service secretary congressman tom price, and we expect that announcement made tomorrow. >> in the meantime he's tweeting about voter fraud and election results, retweeting angry posts about journalists. what is he saying? >> reporter: he has been claiming for a day even though he won the election he believes he is the victim of voter fraud, claiming he believes he should have won the popular vote. we know hillary clinton is ahead in the popular vote by more than two million votes at this point, but these are basic allegations, one that my colleague cnn's jeff zeleny doing great reporting on all day saying no one on the trump transition team nor donald trump himself producing any evidence whatsoever to back up these claims. trump seems to be not too happy about that and he has taken to at which timing, retweeting a series of people online complaining about this sort of reporting by cnn's jeff zeleny,
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one notably aaccording to twitter biois only 16 years old. tweeting, pathetic, no sufficient evidence. donald trump did not suffer from voter fraud. shame, bad reporter. donald trump retweeting someone else talking about jeff zeleny's reporting, quote, what proof do you have donald trump did not suffer from millions of fraud votes? now, to note again cnn has been reporting on this all day. no one from the trump transition team is producing any evidence to back up these claims, and very notably the election officials in all three states where donald trump himself is claiming voter fraud says that is baseless as well. don. >> ahhh. selena. >> donald. >> it is just don, by the way. >> just don. >> my legal name is don, not donald. despite there's no evidence any of this, there's voter fraud he is sending out tweets. they do appeal, you say, to his supporters. why? >> they do. back in september when i
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interviewed him, i quoted my friend saying voters take him seriously but not literally. we take him literally but not seriously. >> that was great reporting, by the way. it all made sense after that. >> thank you. >> well, as much as it could make sense. but go on. >> but we kind of need to think about that because words mean completely different things not only to him but to his supporters and his voters. so we as reporters and politicians, we take words incredibly seriously. that's how we conduct our business, in how we report, in how we look at things and how we tell stories and how we find facts. >> let me ask you, don't you think leaders around the world, they may not be able to make that distinction? i think it is an interesting distinction on your part and explains in part the election results, but don't you think it is important for leaders around the world to take him literally and seriously? >> absolutely. >> you're just explaining, yeah.
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>> i'm just explaining what is going on, right. that's how people viewed him. after he went on his ram page tweet about "hamilton" and when he was talking about these millions of voters, i reached out to the trump voters that supported him. they're fine with it. they like this guy. they feel as though he has their back and they also feel like he's speaking to power, and he's just letting them know. >> he's also gotten a lot of press because he appears to be backing away from campaign promises, which they may not care about either, about obamacare, about biltdiuilding wall, about prosecuting hillary clinton, they don't care? >> about obamacare, i interviewed him in april. he did say that back then, that he wanted to keep the 26-year-old part in "the insider," he thought that was important, and he also thought that the preexisting conditions was very important to keep in place. what was the other question?
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forgot? >> we were talking about building the wall. >> i did a piece for "the washington post" and i called voters i interviewed. i said, what about the wall? >> we never thought he was going to build it anyway. >> we never thought he was going to build a wall. i think that's what people don't understand about this election. people don't think we heard them. we didn't listen enough to them. >> yeah. and all of it is really just a bias distraction from maybe conflicts of interest because he is a master at manipulating the media in a sense. >> he is a businessman first. whether he will be a good or not good president, it is way too soon to tell, but he will always be a businessman first. it will be something incredibly different to cover. >> yeah. >> sorry. >> you can say that again. thank you, selena. >> thank you. >> when we come back, did russia influence our election, and what is vladimir putin's end game? ♪ if you have medicare
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did russia influence or
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election? what does vladimir putin want and how will president-elect trump deal with him? to discuss, bill dougherty from the international center for defense and security, and cnn presidential historian douglas brinkley. as i understand, jill, we have a delay so i want to warn our viewers and you agency well. jill, tell us about the reports of russians trying to influence our elections through the spread of fake news on social media. >> well, you know, you got a lot of things going on, okay. let's back up. we've got the allegations that they hacked into computers for election officials. we also had the hacking definitely of e-mails by the dnc and john podesta, and then finally you have this really murky world which is fake news. i think that's the thing that people are talking about right now. it is a very complex world in which, yes, russia has an operation, a very big operation to kind of spew these stories.
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sometimes they're blatant lies, sometimes they're half truths all mixed up. they put them out, and then they kind of get into this circular situation of fake news being put out by other people for their own purposes. it could be alt-right, it could be white nationalists, it could be european people on the right as well. so i think overall the question is did this really affect the election. it is very hard to really pin that down because how do you say, how many fake stories does a person believe. >> yeah. so what do experts think happened? is it hard for them to pin it down? do they have an idea of what happened, the experts? >> you know, there are a couple of reports that have come out, actually i would say three pretty new and very interesting reports. what they have done is they've taken the metadata for all of these fake news stories and they've kind of traced them
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back, and they've said, okay, there's some people out there who are using click bait. you know what that is, basically getting people to click on and making money from it. so eliminate those. but look at the people or look at the conversations that are engendered by fake news, are they designed to kind of atrack people, get them talking about fake stories? let's say hillary's illness was a very good example. some of the earliest reports of her when she fell came out from the russian media, from russian tweets. so they analyze this metadata and they can kind of say, okay, this probably came from an organized source. but, don, you know, we can talk about this more, but the overall purpose is not always individual tweets about individual facts or non-facts. it is really, at least for the russians, it is to give the impression to people that american democracy is chaotic,
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that it is not working, that the system is a mess, and therefore don't believe in american democracy. it is not hard to make that point, by the way, when you have a candidate, in fact donald trump himself saying that the system is rigged. >> so, douglas, what does putin want? what does russia want to get out of this? >> well, traditional russian expansionism. we tried to contain it in the cold war but it is ruling its head again. they want more of a free rein in the ukraine. they would like assad back in power in syria. they would like to be kind of left alone by the united states in doing that, and they see in donald trump somebody that is going to treat them as a partner. barack obama has zero love lost for putin. he actually despises the putin government. jo george w. bush, if you recall, flirted with putin for a moment saying, i saw the soul in him, and then backtracked big time from that.
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for putin feeling the economic sanctions, he's feeling isolated, oil prices have dropped. he would like to get back into the game with the united states, but on his term. what we have -- what the trump administration is going to have going for them is that both of us have the same enemy in isis. so there is a possibility of seeing us do joint military exercises. it might be russia doing the bombings that kill civilians, not us. >> as an historian, have you ever seen this kind of thing before, a foreign country meddling in u.s. election and news con new coverage, or is it a new online world with shares and clicks and meddling by foreign governments? >> there used to be a thing with a telegram inciting mexico to declare war on the united states in the world war i era, and if they would do that germany would
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give back arizona and new mexico. this kind of intrigue has gone on, but not in this sort of way where russia brace evenh russia support wikileakss and going after hillary clinton and the democratic party. this strange love between donald trump and putin, there's never been anything like this. yes, nixon and breshnev but what is going on with donald trump and putin is one of the stranger things of 2016. >> just the average person in russia, jill, what are they saying about this? >> well, i think it goes along with what they're getting from their own domestic media which is the united states is a mess. so if i'm sitting here as a russian, i might say, okay, yes, there are allegations that we here in russia have elections and many, you know, russians would agree, that have not been totally above board. but look at those americans, it
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is even worse. and their own presidential candidate is saying that that's the system that exists there. so should i, you know, think that the united states is a paragon of virtue and that i want that? and i think this more than anything, don, is what russian propaganda, if you want to put it that way, is trying to do, which is not so much say, hey, our system is a lot better, watch russia do what we're doing. but to say that the united states is a mess, that the united states is weak and falling apart and democracy is just a fake. so don't believe it. it is more tearing down than building up an alternative message. >> jill and douglas, thank you very much. when we come back, dylan roof accused of a brutal, shocking crime, the killings of nine people at a black church in charleston, south carolina. now he is being allowed to represent himself at trial.
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is that right? ♪
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dylan roof is accused of killing nine people alt a predominantly black church in charleston, south carolina last year. jury selection in the trial resumes at 9:00 tom morning, but there are already questions about the proceedings. let's discuss with jeffrey toobin, cnn senior analyst and jennifer barry haas is a reporter for the charleston post and courier. you were inside the courtroom today, jennifer. what happened? tell us about the proceedings. >> reporter: well, the morning started pretty predictably, people were arriving expecting for jury selection to begin. the proceedings had been delayed for three weeks at that point waying for a experience hearing and a judge's ruling on roof's mental state. on friday the judge ruled he was competent to stand trial, and so most people arriving in the courtroom this morning were expecting for that to go forward. when the judge took his seat he discussed the fact he had
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received a last minute motion for roof to represent himself, and he moved forward with that and pretty quickly made a decision that roof had the right and the capacity to represent himself. and so suddenly the entire nature of the day and the proceedings changed. >> what was his demeanor? >> you know, he was like he always is when i've seen him in court. he was quiet, respectful, answered the judge with, you know, yes, sirs, and really did not elaborate a whole lot on much of anything other than to ask the judge's questions. he was dressed in his gray jail jump suit, and so really looked a lot like he's looked whenever we've seen him, which is somewhat docile and even a bishbit shy even. didn't communicate a lot with
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his attorneys. didn't say much other than to answer the judge's questions in very succinct manner. really just seemed -- docile is the best way i can think to put it. >> jeffrey, he was granted the right to represent himself after the judge declared him competent. from a legal perspective -- i'm not going to ask if it is a smart move, it is not. >> it is a ridiculous move if you're trying to limit your punishment, to try to get acquitted. i think the paradox here is we all know dylan roof actually committed this crime. anyone who could commit such a heinous, horrific crime has to be crazy in some sense. just the way we would describe crazy. legally he is probably not insane because it is a very difficult standard to meet if you're trying to meet it. so the fact that he committed this crime makes it somewhat understandable that he would want the focus of attention to
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be on himself as the lawyer in the trial when everyone knows he's not going to be acquitted and it is a virtual certainty he will get the death penalty, too. >> and if we want to know -- you know, i asked jennifer to take us inside the courtroom, what he's like inside the courtroom. remember the emotional moment during his bond hearing, it was on television? let's listen to this to take us back. >> we welcome you wednesday night in our bible study with open arms. you have killed some of the most beautiful people that i know. every fiber in my body hurts. and i'll never be the same. so saying was my son, but tawanza was my hero. tawanza was my hero. but as we said in bible study,
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we enjoyed you, but may god have mercy on you. >> it is really sort of surreal to watch it. jennifer, go ahead. >> i mean it is just so awful, you know, this whole case. i'm sorry. didn't mean to interrupt. >> no, that's okay. jennifer, you have been very close to some of the family members of some of these victims. what do you think of him being able to represent himself? what do they think? >> well, i think that a lot of them feel like this -- this is his attempt to make sort of a circus out of this trial and to deprive their loved ones of any real justice. i think, however, that if dylan roof is imagining that he'll be able to question them on the witness stand and that they may fall apart or that they may be frail, weak people, i think he is going to find he's wrong. the woman whose voice you just
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heard, felicia sanders, is one of the survivors of the shooting and she and polly shepherd, the other woman who was in the bible study during the shooting, they both were in the courtroom monday and they're both very, very strong, wise women of faith. i think that they have some things to say to dylan roof as well. so his decision to represent himself may, in fact, open some doors for them to speak their minds on some issues. but they are just remarkably resilient and strong, and i think that that's what we may wind up seeing. i'm not sure i would concede the turf to roof. there's been some discussion that, you know, perhaps he wants to have control and the power in this trial, but i think wallhat you'll find is the survivors of the shooting in particular are extremely wise and grounded,
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strong women. so he may find that that approach backfires if that's indeed what he's thinking. >> there's another factor as well, and jennifer can correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the judge is going to take a firm hand here and not let dylan roof turn this case into a circous. federal court tends to be a place where the judge exercises a lot of control. the judge undoubtedly gets what is going on here and he is not going to let these victims suffer unduly, beyond of course what they've already suffered. so i think to the extent dylan roof thinks, you know, he is smarter than everyone in the courtroom by, you know, making this effort, it is wrong. mass murderers often do this. >> we saw ted bundy, we saw charles man son. >> zacharias, the 10th highjacker, tried to represent himself. the narcisus involved in
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committing a crime like this manifests itself in the trial. it is not about getting acquitted. >> thank you. we'll be right back. snoept [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare? that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan,
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. donald trump won the election so why is he questioning the vote? here to krus cnn political kmen tags kayleigh menany. to you first, mr. sellers. let's get into some of the incendiary tweets donald trump sent out. first he claimed millions of people voted illegally. i won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people that voted illegally. what is your reaction? >> i think we can call it a bald faced, boldfaced lie. donald trump needs to focus on governing and running the country instead of sending out and following these twitter wars. every moment, every breath. but this brings up another point. donald trump, we can see the fervor in which he tweets about voter fraud which is a flatout
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lie. we can see the fervor in which he attacks jeff zeleny, the fervor at which he tweets various and sundry things, but not the fervor for everyone asking him to repudiate the hate attacks going on, don't see it when asking him to dedicate energy to bringing the country together. we don't see that same fervor when we talk about up lifting the ideas that make this country great. when people question about what more we want him to do, i want him to repudiate the hateful attacks going on in this country the same way he talks about voter fraud. >> bakari, let me stop you there because he probably will never do it. do you think then that he tweets more as a distraction than anything of substance? we should just start ignoring the tweets because they really don't mean anything, because many times they're not the truth. >> well, i had a conversation with a mentor of mine. she probably doesn't know she is a mentor, but i think that we're giving donald trump too much credit because i felt as if it
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was a distraction from conflicts of interest. i felt it was a distraction from the bloomberg article about the state controlled bank of kmiena, which is his largest tenant, having to negotiate. i think donald trump is a squared man, scared someone is going to take this away from him. i think he's tweeting in reaction to that. >> kayleigh, you and i discussed this a little bit. let's put this other tweet up and talk about it. this also without evidence. serious voter fraud in new hampshire, virginia and california. why isn't the media reporting on this? serious problem. big problem. is he at risk of undermining this? >> i don't think so. you have people trying to del delegitimizing him. if the system was by way of --
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you have people calling for recounts based on no evidence. you have jill stein coming on our network an hour or so ago suggesting there were potentially hacks and we won't know until we count the vote. there are people trying to delegitimize the the president-elect of the snats united states. >> don't you think people are going on the current president is sitting up there going,a ha, now you know how it feels to try to have people delegitimize you as a president? >> i think you have in some ways the president of the united states sticking up for donald trump on this -- >> he did it for years with the birther thing. >> he asked a question and got his answer and moved on. but, no -- >> he never moved on. >> i have to praise president obama because he actually slapped this down and said, hey, you know what, the people spoke, let's give him a chance and that's commendable. >> wait a minute. i don't have -- i have no idea what you're saying. >> i'm saying president obama has been really great in all of this and i want to commend him for standing up for the people's vote and saying let's give this guy a chance. i think it is fantastic. >> but my question is now he
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knows how it feels to have people say, you know -- or at least insinuate you're not a legitimate president because he did it for so many years. what does it have to do with the president saying -- you know, the president is being gracious and classy and saying we must accept the outcome of the election. >> absolutely. i'm making the point the president is doing that but elements of the left won't do that. jill stein namely, now hillary clinton is jumping on board with this apparently. i wish they would follow the lead of the president of the united states. >> go ahead, paris. >> yeah, and i think kayleigh is absolutely right. when you look at secretary clinton, i think it is a moment for her to be the senior stateswoman, if you will, that she is and not entertain this radical belief that mr. trump is not going to be or is not the president-elect and these silly, frivolous recounts. i think she should not be doing this because it takes her down another rabbit hole that is not tasteful. it is, frankly, beneath her. >> let bakari get in. go ahead, bakari. >> i think paris and kayleigh
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are fundamentally incorrect and wrong. the hillary clinton campaign is not doing anything other than sending lawyers to monitor a recount that's going to happen anyway. she didn't commence this recount, she didn't ask for it, she is not spending money or resources on this recount. all she is doing is going to send lawyers to monitor a recount that's happening anyway. so to say somehow this is hillary clinton's recount or that she is not being a statesman or she is supposed to do more is completely outrageous. but i absolutely enjoy the hypocrisy and it is a good giggle for me when people say people are trying to delegislate donald trump after year after year after year in which donald trump made his political stones -- >> did you not just hear me ask that question, bakari? >> there's a big difference. >> you have to appreciate -- >> he wouldn't listen to you, don. >> you have to appreciate the irony of it, don. >> i see it and i think people at home see it and i think most of the voters see it but i have to ask this. paris, it is also for false for
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trump to say the electoral college vote was a landslide. it was an upset but far from that. his electoral votes give him a smaller both than both of the reagan elections, barack obama's two elections, he tops only george w. bush's two narrow wins. can he call it a landslide? why is he calling it a landslide? he did very well, he did win, he got way more than most people thought, but you can't call it a landslide? >> i think you can call it a landslide if you look at how better he did than secretary clinton. >> you're changing the definition of landslide? >> i'm -- i think -- >> you can say he did better because he won, but can you call something a landslide when it is not actually a landslide? is that what you're doing? . >> i'm saying if you look at how well he did against secretary clinton in the electoral college, it was a landslide. so you can go back -- >> it wasn't a landslide, paris. a landslide is only a landslide when it is a definition of a
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landslide. that's not a definition of a landslide. that's you changing the definition of a landslide. >> no. >> because it is hillary clinton. >> it is you not liking my explanation of -- >> no, i'm telling you the truth. if you look at the definition of a landslide it is not one. i gave you evidence. let me read this again. it is false to say that the electoral college vote was a landslide. if you back to 1980, 306 electoral votes, give him a smaller margin than both reagan, george w. bush, bill clinton's two elections, barack obama's two elections. he only tops george w. bush two narrow wins. it is not a landslide. i'm just asking you the definition of a landslide. the truth about a landslide, it is not. yes, he won. he won by a big margin, but it wasn't a landslide. why is he saying that? >> because it was a landslide. >> okay. >> i believe it was a landslide. the american people believe it was. >> thank you, paris. we will be right back. >> it was a landslide.
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back with with me know kayleigh mcenny, paris dennard and bakari paris. we were having a little fun. everybody, don't take it so seriously. geez, it is just -- >> don knows he won by a landslide. >> all right. okay, if it makes you happy, it
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was a landslide. >> yes! >> i agree with you, paris. two against two. >> we're going to change the definition of a landslide. >> i'll tweet it. >> serious stuff, let's talk about people in the trump camp opposed to mitt romney because of the speech in march. listen. >> there's plenty of evidence that mr. trump is a con man, a fake. his promises are as worthless as a degree from trump university. he's playing the members of the american public for suckers. he gets a free ride to the white house and all we get is a lousy hat. >> all right. kayleigh, if trump picks mitt romney will this grassroots supporter also be, you know -- his grassroots supporters going to forgive and forget? >> i think they'll need reassurances president-elect trump still will govern like he campaigned because mitt romney was so opposed to his viewpoint. i'm not saying romney should be taken off the table, but i think the person put in place is the person that most closely wants to advocate for trump's foreign policy and to me that's rudy
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giuliani. >> so you don't think he will be -- >> i think it will be rudy giuliani. >> paris? >> i think the challenge for governor romney is how does he walk back all of the things he said and then say, i'm going to wear that lousy hat, as he called it, and champion the trump administration's vision for not only this country but worldwide. it is going to be a very tall order for him to do that and seem credible or seem like he had good judgment back then or seem like he was not being a political opportunist right now. he could do it but it will be difficult for him. >> he's not the only one, bakari. people who are close to donald trump now and people on his team who criticized donald trump harshly during this election. why is mitt romney so different? >> well, i'm not necessarily sure what they're doing with mitt romney other than publicly tore meanting him. this is not the way -- >> do you think he should withdraw his name and say, you know guys, i don't really want this? >> yeah, withdraw his name and keep some dignity. mitt romney doesn't need this job by any stretch. mitt romney can still contribute to the world, to peace throughout the world and can
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continue to be a diplomat if he chooses. but to take the lashing he took from kellyanne conway on state of the union, from various supporters around the country, trump supporters around the country, i'm not sure why he's going through this public embarrassment. the fact of the matter is i truly hope rudy giuliani is the pick because those confirmation hearings will be so exciting, we could probably put them on pay purview. i don't see how rudy giuliani gets through screening. but you have rudy giuliani for secretary of state, an attorney general who doesn't believe in voting rights act, secretary of education who doesn't believe in public education. you look at the long litany of things going on in this administration and it is off to a bumpy start to say the least. >> and it gives us a lot to report about over the next four years, to say the least. thank you all. have a good evening. >> thanks, don. >> thanks, don. >> we will be right back. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com
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voting is under way for the cnn hero of the year. here is one of the top ten heroes. meet brad. >> rivers are amazing teachers.
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i learned a lot about what makes me happy and what i want to pursue and do each day. the idea first came to me when i was 18. that is when i started working on it. my aunt was diagnosed with cancer as a young adult. a few years later, i pursued kayaking professionally. i came to the cross roads and i found i wanted to give that sport an experience to people to benefit from it after seeing what my aunt went through. young people with cancer are the most under served population with the disease. they are facing the unique social challenges and this population deserves attention. you see it at the bottom of the rapids with the look of pride on their faces. you cannot teach that.
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this program allows them that opportunity. >> you can vote for brad or any of the favorite top ten heroes at cnnheroes.com. that's it for us. thank you for watching. i'll see you right back here tomorrow. details about the somali refugee who went on a stabbing spree at ohio state. will his final facebook posts conclude this was an act of terrorism. donald trump's overnight twitter rant. the issue this time? the journalists looking for fraud. and wildfires burning out of control in tennessee. the dollywood theme park on high alert

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