tv Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer CNN December 2, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm PST
happening now. breaking news. cannot convict. one juror throws a murder trial into chaos in the case of a former south carolina police officer who shot an african-american man in the back. can the deadlock be broken or will there be a mistrial? moscow meddling. we're learning more about russia's attempts to interfere with the u.s. presidential election. democrats are putting pressure on the obama administration to declassify information about vladamir putin's intentions. tale of two trumps. the president-elect gives americans campaign flashbacks by holding a raucous rally. tonight, new details about his
plans to keep his victory lap going in the days and weeks ahead. cage match. trump and clinton campaign aides face -- meet face to face, unleashing anger and ugly accusations. how did it turn into a bitter brawl? what does it mean for trump's calls for unity? we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." this is cnn breaking news. >> we're following breaking news out of south carolina right now, where jurors we're told the judge -- where jurors told the judge they're deadlocked in the trial of a former police officer named michael sleighle. he's accused of the shooting death of walter scott. that was captured on video as
scott was running away. the judge said the jury is willing to continue deliberations. stand by, more on this in a moment. right now, president-elect donald trump is back at work on his transition, meeting with potential candidates for top jobs after returning to campaign mode during his first post election rally. we're told he's very busy with a schedule for a so-called thank you tour in the days ahead with ten stops, including events in north carolina and iowa next week. we saw glimpses of the inscripted donald trump in ohio overnight as he slammed the immediate you and celebrated his victory over hillary clinton. also tonight, senate democrats are urging the obama administration to declassify and go public with new intelligence about russia's attempts to meddle in the presidential election. this as sources tell cnn the intelligence community is increasingly confident that russian hacking was intended to help donald trump.
as mr. trump prepares to take office, america's unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest level in nine years. the u.s. economy adding 178,000 jobs in november, and the jobless rate falling to 4.6%. i'll talk about the trump transition with a top democrat, congressman john gerumendi, as we bring you the full coverage of the day's top stories. let's begin with the breaking news in the trial of former police officer michael slagle. cnn's brian todd is here with the latest. jurors are saying for all practical purposes they're deadlocked, but the judge is instructing them to continue. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. a lot of fast-moving developments in the court just now. we were told that the jury is now back in the courtroom and the judge has been handed a note. we don't know what it says. things are moving very fast.
we can show you a live picture of the courtroom and the judge speaking. just moments ago, when the jury was brought back into the court, the foreman said they want to keep deliberated. the judge asked him to let him know what further explanation of the law they needed. but just now, they've been brought back into the courtroom and handed the judge a note. it is not clear whether the judge may declare a mistrial or ask them to keep deliberating. earlier, the jury indicated that a further explanation of the law might help them reach a consensus here. but also, one juror sent a note to the judge saying he could not in good conscience convict the officer of the murder of walter scott. that juror seems to be the real issue here. the other jurors could not convince that person to convict. that person has held out, and now we see the court in session there. it's possible a mistrial might be declared. it's possible the judge may send them back in to continue deliberating, wolf. >> laura coats, it just takes one juror.
11 can say convict, but if one juror is not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, that judge has no choice but to call it a mistrial. >> absolutely right, wolf. that's really how the system works. you have to have unanimous consent. a prosecutor is fear of that reasonable doubt and what a defense attorney holds on to for dear life, that reasonable doubt. one thing we're talking about, the fact that we all thought this was going to be a murder case. at the end of the trial, they said the jury could consider a voluntary manslaughter charge. that may have been enough of a signal for that one juror to say there may be some doubt whether there's premeditation or whether fear was justification here. that may be what's driving this person to be the one holdout
juror. >> the defense attorneys, brian, you've been watch thing closely, you were down there. they argued yes, we all saw the video of walter scott running away, and he was shot in the back by the police officer, michael slager, but we didn't see everything that happened before that leading up to that moment. the police officer in this particular case, his attorneys, his defense attorneys keep arguing in his mind he still felt threatened. >> that's right. that's been the central core of the defense case here. we don't know exactly what happened in the moments before this video was shot. the defense claims officer slager claims there was a tussle, there was a fight, and that the dead man, walter scott, took his taser. well, there was no video to support that. there is some indication of a taser in one piece of video here in the cell phone video. but again, the role of this taser, how it was used is really not clear at all. what is clear is that you see walter scott being shot several times in the back by officer slager as scott runs away. seemingly a very, very strong and convincing piece of evidence here of some misconduct by that
officer, possibly murder or manslaughter by that officer. this jury not yet reaching a consensus on this. one juror holding out at this point. >> jeffrey toobin is with us. jeffrey, it seemed to so many people who just saw the video like a slam dunk. here the police officer has his gun, the other man unarmed is running away, walter scott. the police officer shoots him in the back several times. >> you know why it seems like a slam dunk, wolf? because it is a slam dunk. this is an outrageous case. you know, of course the defense has a story here that there was some altercation. that never gives a police officer the right to murder someone who is running away. you know, the message that this hung jury sends, if in fact it winds up to be a hung jury, is it just shows how difficult it is to convict police officers of even the most appalling crimes. even in a world where there are
controversies about michael brown's death in ferguson and eric garland's death in staten island. this is a case where the prosecutors arrested the police officer instantly, because the evidence was so clear. i mean, i just find this a heartbreaking situation because this is a slam dunk case, and it is not resolved. >> we just learned, jeffrey, that the judge -- he's told the members of the jury, all 12 of them, they can go home for the weekend. but he wants them to resume deliberations monday morning. he's not yet ready to declare a mistrial. gives your analysis of that. >> judges hate mistrials, because they don't want to retry cases. you know, he gave what's called a dynamite charge, or an allen charge, which basically says to the jurors look, you're not supposed to give up your conscience, but you should listen to each other, reason
with each other. but you know, there is a long history of single holdout jurors, swhich is especially maddening because it's just one person. prosecutors recognize if a jury is split 6-6, 7-5, they recognize there are problems with their case. but if the jury is split 11-1 for conviction, that means almost always that there is a problem with the juror, not with the case. and that certainly is the conclusion i draw here. but there's nothing that can be done about it, except to have the juror change their mind. >> interesting what we heard earlier, wolf, is that the one juror who held out gave the judge a note himself saying he couldn't in good conscience, convict the officer. the judge said it's unusual for a juror who is not the foreman,
to give the judge a note like that. >> it is. you almost have a norman rockwell painting in mind with the woman sit back being the lone holdout. this case should have been a unanimous conviction, and it's also a friday night after a case that's been widely and highly publicized and is very, very volatile in terms of what it represents to the community. i hope in my mind, and i know in all of our hearts, this will be resolved in the right way. but remember, the friday night after this case is being judged is a mistrial, that would not be what you would like to go away as a judge. even more so, there is an opportunity that this one juror may, in fact, decide that even though his conscience perhaps can't be the guide, maybe the law as it should be, is his guide. and that may ultimately change his conclusion. it may not, but it's not a
friday evening. >> by asking for the instructions here, the other jurors may be trying to convince this one person, follow the law here, maybe trying to judge this person one way or the other. now they have to pick it up on monday. >> the trial is in recess. guys, thanks so much for that. let's move on to the trump transition right now. tonight, the president-elect is juggling his behind the scenes work with plans to hold more campaign-style rallies. jessica, what's the latest there at trump tower? >> reporter: another a day of back-to-back meetings here. the president-elect sitting down with several people, including the former u.n. ambassador john bolton and robert gates, even the democratic senator from north dakota, heidi hicamp. donald trump, when he went
before that crowd, returned to that candidate trump persona. he held a rally for hundreds in cincinnati, ohio. >> we're going to make america great again. >> reporter: the first stop on what he's calling his thank you tour. part off the cuff bombastic and boastful with a clear message, i told you so, all signature trump. >> we won wisconsin, we won michigan, we won pennsylvania. and that person is doing the math, and that person was saying for month that there's no way that donald trump can break the blue wall, right? we didn't break it, we shattered that sucker. >> reporter: trump once again lashing out at the media. >> these are very, very dishonest people. >> reporter: and boasting about his nine-point ohio win, despite a non-endorsement from john kasich. >> your governor called me after the election, he said, congratulations, that was amazing.
>> reporter: at a time when many are calling for the president-elect to reach out to all voters, trump went in the other direction. >> we did have a lot of fun fighting hillary, didn't we? [ applause ] >> reporter: while also calling for country to come together. >> we're going to seek a truly inclusive society where we support each other and we forcefully reject the language of exclusion and separation. we're going to come together. we have no choice. we have to, and it's better. it's better. >> reporter: trump using the rally to confirm reports from cnn and others that he'll nominate retired general james mattis as secretary of defense. >> the closest thing to general george patton that we have and it's about time. >> reporter: but at least one democrat is promising a fight over the congressional waiver necessary for general mattis to take over the top post at the pentagon, senator kirsten gillibrand releasing this
statement. while i deeply respect his service, i will oppose a waiver and will not vote for an exception to this rule. mattis left the marines in 2013, not enough time to meet the required seven years as a civilian. speculation continues as who he will pick for secretary of state. mitt romney still one of the leading consenders for the spot. the president-elect providing some insight into his relationship with the former massachusetts governor, who infamously labeled trump a fraud during the primary fight. >> he's been very gracious. and don't forget, i hit mitt pretty hard also, so i understand how it all works. but he's been very, very nice. we had dinner the other night. it was actually good chemistry. >> reporter: and donald trump promising more cabinet announcements next week,
starting with general mattis on monday and has his supreme court picks narrowed down to four. and he has two stops next week, one in fayetteville, north carolina, and one in des moines, iowa. he's promising about ten of these thank you tour stops over the coming weeks. >> jessica, thank you very much. let's get the latest now on russia's reported attempts to meddle in the u.s. presidential election. democratic senators are urging president obama to declassify and go public with new intelligence about moscow's role. our chief senators are pressing the obama administration --
on new intelligence that russia's meddling in the u.s. election was intended to help donald trump. multiple sources tell that to cnn. the democratic pressure comes as sources with knowledge of the investigation tell cnn that the u.s. intelligence community is increasingly confident that russian hacking was intended to steer the election toward trump rather than simply to undermine the political process. the sources, however, do not see the new information as significantly changing the intelligence agency's understanding of russian motives, since the democratic party was the principal target of the hacks. seven democrats on the senate's intelligence committee wrote president obama yesterday insisting such intelligence should be "declassified and released." the letter did not specify what the new information was. senator king signed the letter. >> i think the story of russia's involvement in this election is the biggest story of the decade, frankly. and i think it's going to only
grow. >> reporter: congressman adam schiff also wants to see more information public, specific to russia's involvement. >> they largely accomplished their mission of sewing discord in the united states and tipping the balance in favor of mr. trump and against secretary clinton. >> reporter: but republican lawmakers down played the letter, telling cnn, there was no new information to suggest the intelligence community has changed its overall assessment in any way. one month before the election, the intelligence community declared that they were "confident the russian government directed compromises of e-mails from u.s. persons and institutions, including from u.s. political organizations." noting document dumps from the websites dc leaks.com and wikileaks, which targeted the democratic party. but the intelligence party has not publicly indicated that russia's intention was to help donald trump over hillary
clinton. just after the election, director of national intelligence james clapper told congress he expects russian hacking to continue. >> i don't anticipate a significant change in russian behavior. the russians have a very active and aggressive capability to conduct information operations, so-called hybrid warfare. >> reporter: in his annual address to parliament yesterday, russian president vladamir putin dismissed the claims as "myths." a trump ally said, this is nothing more than sour grapes from partisan democrats upset that hillary clinton lost. i want to make something clear, democratic lawmakers are telling cnn their concerns are not about who won the election, but the integrity of the u.s. electoral
process going forward. >> on a diplomatic matter, we're learning about this phone call that the president-elect donald trump had with the president of taiwan. you know a lot about this issue. tell us why this is so, so sensitive. >> reporter: i've covered china for more than 20 years. if you wanted to poke china in the eye diplomatically, to cause a diplomatic uproar, this would be the way to do it. a u.s. president-elect has not spoken directly with a leader of taiwan since 1979. that's when the u.s. recognized beijing as the u.n. seat of china, as in effect the real china. so to have this direct back and forth before he takes office, a significant diplomatic development. i have to tell you, it is likely that heads are spinning in beijing tonight. does this signal a change in u.s. recognition of taiwan versus china?
those are the questions that will be asked of the trump team. >> it's been a one china policy since the '70s, and this could signal that's changing. no reaction yet from the chinese government. let's talk about all of this with a top democrat, congressman john gerumendi of california. your reaction to the fact that the president-elect, in their official announcement, said he spoke with the president of taiwan, who offered her congratulations during the discussion. they noted the ties that exist between taiwan and the united states. president trump also congratulated the taiwanese president from becoming president earlier this year. it's a sensitive diplomatic issue. >> no doubt about it. and the next secretary of state is going to be on his force, out in the field trying to clarify where this president-elect is going. beyond that, let's also understand november 19, the trump organization was in taiwan
trying to close a real estate deal. so we have this issue of international diplomacy, but you also have this issue, are there conflicts here? this is going to be a very complicated situation going forward, and god help the next secretary of state trying to sort out this man who is not even bothering to take his intelligence briefings daily. >> the vice president-elect gets that intelligence briefing every day. let's talk about the allegation that the russian government deliberately tried to intervene in the u.s. presidential election with the hope of helping donald trump become the next president of the united states. you've seen this letter from senate democrats. you're briefed on this. how serious is this issue? >> it's very, very serious. this is intervention by russia. >> do you believe it did happen? >> no doubt about it. there was a hacking -- >> there was a hacking of the
democratic national committee. all of that has been announced by the u.s. intelligence committee. but what is your intelligence sparse what the russians did, as far as the presidential election is concerned? >> without going into the intelligence, all you need to do is take a look at what was going on. did you see anything about the republican campaign, any hacks of the republican national committee? no. it was all hacks of democrats and then rolled out over time. you don't need to be an intelligence expert to understand what was going on. connect the dots. russia did it, no doubt about it. and what was the result? >> you want the president to release this classified information? >> absolutely. this is not just about today but about the
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less than seven years, you guys in the house and senate will have to pass special legislation, a waiver to give that individual permission to become the civilian leader of the department of defense. your colleague, adam smith, the ranking democrat, he said this, he said the unusual circumstances of his nomination raise serious questions about fundamental principles of our constitutional order, civilian control of the military is not something to be casually cast aside. are you in favor of -- voting in favor of a waiver to allow general mattis to become defense secretary? >> i'm very concerned about this, because it goes right back to george washington. he resigned his commission as commander of the continental army to become president. now, that was one -- >> general mattis resigned three years ago. >> after world war ii, congress decided they wanted a separation. that's been in place with one exception, george marshal in the
'50s. it's a very important point. it's not just the secretary of defense, it's all the secretary army, navy, air force, all those secretaries are also -- they're also civilian. so there's an important dichotomy here, and we really ought to be very careful about this. which way i'm going to go on this, i'm going to go to the hearings, but up front, i am concerned and i suspect all of congress should be concerned. it's not democrat, republican, but about civilian control of the most awesome military machine in the world. >> before he could be confirmed by the senate, both chambers have to pass this legislation of this waiver that would allow him to be considered as the secretary of defense. i assume we'll see what happens down the road. what about -- if he does become the secretary of defense, would you have a problem with general david petraeus becoming secretary of state? >> we're beginning to stack up the generals. >> do we have a problem with
that? >> i think we need to be careful. petraeus is a good person. >> mattis is a good person. >> but now we have generals in every one of the key positions dealing with the military and international affairs and that takes on a heavy tilt to the military. and we can best be careful here about what all of this adds up to, when you start looking at the intelligence community, you start looking at the military, and the secretary of state, and where we're going to go on homeland defense. all of those things, we need to be careful. >> congressman, thank you very much for coming in. appreciate it. just ahead, can the president-elect bring americans together when he's telling his doubters, i told you so? (vo) it's the holidays at verizon,
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donald trump extending his thank you tour in his first rally in cincinnati, we saw some classic donald trump. >> we spend too much time focusing on what divides us. now is the time to embrace the one thing that truly unites us. you know what that is? america. it's america. from now on, it's going to be america first. we're going to put ourselves first. we condemn bigotry and prejudice
in all of its forms. we denounce all of the hatred and we forcefully reject the language of exclusion and separation. we're going to make joint decisions, and the nice part, our victory was so great, we have the house, we have the senate, and we have the presidency. [ applause ] remember when they said, he cannot win north carolina? so we just won ohio, iowa, and we had just won florida. breaking news, donald trump has won florida. they say whoa. and we won it big. but then the people back there, the extremely dishonest press -- [ crowd booing ] i mean, think of it. we won in a landslide. that was a landslide. remember, you cannot get to 270, the dishonest press. how many times did we hear this? there is no path to 270. they go for weeks, texas is in play. then you turn on the television like two minutes later, donald trump has won texas.
it's like 12:00 in the evening, and pennsylvania, i'm leading by a lot. and we couldn't get off 98%. they didn't want to call it. we're leading by so much that it's impossible if i lost every other vote and they refused to call. and we won wisconsin, and we won michigan, and we won pennsylvania! and that person is doing the math, and that person was saying for months that there's no way that donald trump can break the blue wall, right? we didn't break it, we shattered that sucker. i'll never forget it, because it felt so good. and then to look at the map and say oh, wow, there's no way for hillary clinton to become president. donald trump is president of the united states. [ applause ] the bottom line is, we won. we won. we won big. the african-american community
was so great to me in this election. the hispanic community, great. we did great with women. can you believe it? for whatever reason, people in uniforms like trump. this is truly an exciting time to be alive. there's been no time like it. the script is not yet written. we do not know what the next page will read. but i'll tell you, it's going to be a great page. i talk about our great movement. you are the movement. i'm just really the messenger. although i've been a very good messenger, let's face it. >> let's get some analysis from our political experts. rebecca, that was vintage donald trump. the donald trump we saw for a year and a half winning the republican primaries and then the general election. >> it was. so we talked a lot, speculated that maybe donald trump would pivot, would evolve during this transition period as he moves towards the presidency, wolf. we haven't really seen much of
an instance of that. he's still donald trump. still very much an entertainer, and as we know, his default mode is very much to create drama. he thrives off of plot twists, off of entertainment, and i think we're going to see a lot more of that. but that's what has kept his supporters so captivated throughout the campaign and i think he doesn't want to lose that momentum. >> and it's worked so well for him. he may continue that for the next four years, maybe even eight years. >> and he knows he has to keep his supporters happy and his advisers look at his rallies as something that is like a rock concert, a football game, something where people go to be entertained and energized. so you can't separate donald trump from his rallies. he is his rallies. so i wouldn't be surprised to
see this become a permanent fixture of his candidacy. >> rob, would you be surprised if he changed and became "more presidential?" >> yes. you know, look, i think other presidents obviously have gone out and done rallies with their supporters. it's not unique for donald trump. i think what is unique is the ad hoc nature of it. i think the real question is the one you raised with rebecca, can he find a language and agenda that speaks beyond -- speaks to americans beyond his base? obviously, this was a very divisive election. we saw enormous divides. he is on track to lose the popular vote by over 2.5 million votes, even though he clearly won under the electoral rules. there is a lot of apprehension as he nears the white house. while he is successful at stirring up and energizing supporters, the larger question
is can he find a language that reaches beyond them. >> i was struck that on this program 24 hours ago, we were reporting pretty hard he selected general james mattis to become his secretary of defense. we said the announcement would come next week. his aides started pushing back, no decision has been made. the president-elect is still deciding and encouraged us to move back. then all of a sudden last night at his rally, he went off script and said this -- >> we are going to appoint mad dog mattis as our secretary of defense. [ applause ] but we're not announcing it until monday, so don't tell anybody.
>> jeffrey, his special spokesman only a little while earlier tweeted, no decision had been made. and i get the sense that the president-elect, he has a lot of fun doing this kind of stuff. he didn't want to wait until monday. >> i think that is a safe bet. he was having the time of his life. what is so interesting about these sorts of speeches, especially about, you know, going state by state through the election is that it was all about him and his, you know, his triumph and we won this state, we won that state. ultimately, though, the success or failure of a presidency is about things that are accomplished or not accomplished. you know, there was an announcement today that unemployment went to 4.6%. that is historically a very low unemployment rate. unemployment is like a report card on presidents. donald trump is going to take office with a very low unemployment rate. if it continues to go down, that will reflect well. but if it goes up, then he's got a problem. and that's what is going to
matter, not the rallies. >> we're going to talk about that in a moment. ron brownstein, he clearly enjoys the showmanship aspect of all of this, donald trump. that was so evident in that speech in cincinnati last night. >> yeah, absolutely. as i said, it's not unusual for presidents to rally their supporters, but they're doing so with a teleprompter, a carefully prepared remarks. donald trump was still basically winging it. as the author of the phrase of "the blue wall," i was glad to hear him talking about it being shattered in pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. but you wonder once he gets into the white house itself, will a communications team be able to establish more kind of structure around what he does on the stump? because the words oh of a president, as you've been talking about with taiwan today, matter enormously. that is the real difference here. i think the degree of kind of free flowing, extemporaneous, ad hoc continuation of the
campaign. we'll see if that can continue into office itself. >> let's talk about what jeffrey toobin reported, the positive jobs numbers that came out today. 4.6% unemployment, the lowest in nine years. the republican national committee looked at the downside of all of this, even though 178,000 jobs were created. they said, the 4,000 manufacturing jobs come on top of the 300,000 that have been lost under president obama. president-elect trump's determination to save 1,000 jobs in indiana is just a preview of his agenda and prosperity for all. so you hear one thing from the republicans. out hear something else from the obama administration. these numbers, 4.6% unemployment, that's very good numbers. >> right, it's very positive.
but we've seen this growth throughout these past years in the obama administration. but what that statement hits on was really the story of this campaign, that that growth, the jobs growth in the obama administration, has been mostly for white collar jobs, and white collar workers, people with college educations, not the people who came out and supported trump, these working class americans. even though the carrier announcement was mostly symbolic, 1,000 jobs matter, but in the broader scheme it's a drop in the bucket. that was basically symbolism for what donald trump hopes to accomplish. but it's absolutely spin. democrats are always going to find in the coming years the bad aspect of donald trump -- >> if you look at where the economy is, abby, right now, opposed to eight years ago, the economy that president obama inherited, it's so much better, the unemployment rate, the dow jones at 19,000, it was 6500
eight years ago. but in the election that really wasn't translated to the benefit of the democrats, whether running for the house or the senate or for hillary clinton. >> right. and added to that the president with high approval ratings. but i would want to get rid of these jobs statements. they don't really tell us anything. but this jobs report with trump is not so much about whether the jobs exist and who they're for, but the quality of jobs. so people might be employed, but they're not employed in jobs that are pushing them into the middle class. so it's a cultural statement about whose individual is washington on? are they helping us move into the middle class? so that's not reflective in the jobs numbers. when people are employed at mcdonald's and they want to be employed in a middle class manufacturing job, like their father was, they're not going to necessarily feel like the economy is working for them. >> ron brownstein, you studied this very closely.
those 1,000 jobs that were saved at that carrier plant in indianapolis, donald trump getting an enormous amount of credit for that right now, especially when he says to his supporters, that's only just the beginning. wait and see what i do. >> right. it's hard to reverse literally generations of global and technological change that have reduced manufacturing employment, even as manufacturing output has continued to increase on a case by case basis. ultimately, you can't really do it. it's like trying to use a teacup to hold back an ocean. but the powerful symbolism of showing i am concerned about your welfare and feel your pain, as another president once said, is very powerful for him. what's striking is the degree to which this intervention has already divided conservatives. you had "the wall street journal" page, sarah palin denouncing what he did as the kind of picking of winners and
losers that republicans would do under a democratic president. so on the one hand, i think the business community and most republicans like the idea of rolling back taxes and regulations. there's probably less enthusiastic about companies making investment decisions that involve moving jobs overseas. so we'll see how sustainable this model is, but it is a powerful way for him to talk to his voters. >> jeffrey toobin, i'm curious to get your reaction to this exchange that occurred at harvard university, normally since the early '70s, political operatives from all the campaigns have a very fancy dialogue about what's going on. listen to how it deteriorated between clinton and trump operatives yesterday at harvard. >> it is a very, very important moment in our history of our country. and i think his presidency goes forward, i'm going to be very
glad -- >> it got pretty nasty over there, which is -- i watch these kind of events at harvard over many years. that was extraordinary. >> yeah, and i think it speaks to one of the great historical debates we're going to have about the 2016 election, because was it really about the white working class who were upset about the flight of jobs and manufacturing jobs, or how much of it was an appeal to racism, to sexism, to out and out really ugly parts of american life? clearly, the clinton campaign feels that trump, you know, through his association with the alt-right movement, played into precisely those things and it
wasn't just about exhibition but race and gender, too. i think that historical debate is going to rage for a long time. >> yeah. ron, you've attended these events, as well. it shows how raw three weeks plus after the election, how raw the tensions are right now. >> yeah. in fact, four years ago, gloria and i co-moderated that very same panel. yes, this was an extraordinary exchange. and it goes to the point of somewhat jeffrey said. how much was economic anxiety and demographic anxiety, about feeling left behind in a america that is changing in many ways. the two things kind of braid together and overlap and fundamentally many in the same community feel ellipsed culturally. donald trump spoke to campaign. that that debate is not only
going to go r to go on academically but there is an a substantial portion of his electorate that use him more as an guider than a uniter. >> over the last two day, i was in harvard for many of the these sessions. one thing that came out of it was the tenor of the trump camp. they were very fixated on winning. not as fixated on, sort of, having a kind of calm dialogue like we might have experienced in past sessions and i think that tells us something about how the team is going to go forward. you saw with trump last night this his rally. they are obsessed with coming out on top and they are not as concerned about extending that olive branch and that is one of the reasons the things got so high. >> pretty extraordinary moment indeed. stick around we have much more coming up. we'll be right back. ♪
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brown? >> she did. virginia brown is kirby's mother. and that day she learned her daughter was dead. >> she was cooked to death. that is how she died. this beautiful woman, who was drunk on life and had friends all over. >> kirby's life ended while she was trying to improve it. the surfer and avid horseback rider wanted more. a life partner and help growing her business. that is when she found self help guru james arthur ray. >> i can held you, i really can. >> the motivational speaker already had built a multi million business, and appearances on oprah, larry king and the today show. >> she really was very taken and signed up immediately. >> she reached one of the highest level workshops, a retreat that cost her her live
savings. $10,000. >> during the five day retreat at this campground in arizona participates were challenged to shave their heads, go on a 36 hour trek into the desert without food or water and ultimately end up in a steaming hot sweat lodge, all in an effort to transform their lives. >> it was in the sweat lodge where it all went wrong. hot rocks doused with water, creating steam and temperatures well past 100 degrees. courtroom testimony revealed that people were screaming, throwing up. crying and babbling. others were passed out. 19 people end up in the hospital that day. mother of three liz newman died at the hospital. shore pulled one person to safety right past brown. according to witnesses they lay dying inside the tent feet away
from ray. >> what did james ray do to my life? he blew up my life. >> reporter: a jury convicted ray of negligent homicide. he served 20 months in prison. after his release ray told cnn this about the sweat lodge. >> i didn't know, nor did anyone know that anyone was in -- in a death, a life or death situation. >> he's now making another run at success as a motivational speaker. as documented in this cnn film enlighten us. >> i was involved in a terrible accident and i lost three friends, people who i really cared about. >> his three good friends, that he left in the dirt, unconscious and did nothing to help them. those are his three good friends. >> after her daughter died, virginia brown started an organization called "seek safely," an educational tool to protect those interested in self help. the $11 billion industry is not
regulated. >> i want this story of her death to be that cautionary tale that will save other people's lives. >> sara sidner, cnn sodona, arizona. >> tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. only here an cnn. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next. breaking news. trump risking a major international incident breaking protocol, doing something no president has dope in nearly 40 years. and trump and clinton aides come face to face and tempers fly. you will hear it tonight. and president obama's gift to the president elect. why frump is calling it a joke. let's go "outfront."trump is ca. let's go "outfront." breaking news. president elect donald trump shocking the world with a