tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN December 2, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
ac 360 begins right now. good evening, thanks for joining us. we begin with breaking news. even before taking office the president elect of the united states of america has in one phone call potentially changed more than three decades of u.s. diplomatic practice. today donald trump spoke on the phone with president of taiwan a highly unusual move that could have tremendous implications for u.s. diplomacy. trump tweeted a short time ago the president of taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. thank you. this call between president elect trump today and taiwan's president, why is it such a big deal? i think to a lot of people listening tonight they will think well, okay. so what?
>> reporter: the u.s. broke off relations in 1979 was of the one china policy. and the chinese feel they should be dealing with china when they deal with taiwan. the u.s. has been holding to that for the last 40 years. they are unofficial contacts. there is trade with taiwan. but this is something the chinese are very sensitive about. even when the u.s. and chinese officials, when taiwanese officials speak, it is under cover. nay they don't meet in public. nothing is announced. so this is sure to rile china, certainly. and obviously there is a lot of uncertainty about how donald trump is going to approach china. he's talked about tougher policy towards china. and this call kind of all fits into the fact that the chinese are very worried about what could be a very different policy under president trump. >> were the white house, the state department aware that this call was going to happen? >> not at all. and this is really fitting in
with all of the calls that president elect trump has done. the state department is ready to provide, kind of, briefing paper, backgrounds and give the president elect a briefing on some of the sensitivities of this. certainly if the state department and the white house would notified beforehand they would recommend against it because of the sensitivities with china. and this is part of the thing. president elect trump has done very few intelligence briefings. he hasn't had any briefings by the state department. and you have seen over the last week a lot of these calls with the world leaders are really supposed to be really congratulatory. very perfunctory. very much quickly. thank you for my congratulations. looking forward to working with you. you just saw yesterday the call with the prime minister of pakistan in which president elect trump was talking about what a fantastic country it is. low he can't wait to visit. how he's ready to solve any problems that they want. this didn't take into account the tensions between the u.s.
and pakistan over pakistan's failure to crack down on terrorism. so the fact that he's not having these briefings seems to be not only a diplomatic breech of protocol in instance but also could have potential consequences down the road. >> just to be clear. when was the last time a u.s. leader has even spoken with a taiwanese leader? there are no formal ties between the two countries. >> well in 1979, when the u.s. and taiwan broke off diplomatic relations. so this really is --. but the idea that the u.s. would be closer, have closer relations with taiwan is not really unprecedented. i've been talking with diplomats who follow taiwan. and they say that when an incoming republican administration is taking office there is an effort to try to elevate the relationship with taiwan over china. ronald reagan invited a time when each delegation to his
inauguration. so it is not unprecedented. but these diplomats say that the relationship with china is really too important for this the go more further. >> we're getting word about the potential response from china. senior white house correspondent michelle kosinski joins me on the phone what you heard? >> that is how quick this happened. a call was made. there was reach out from the chinese government to the u.s. we don't knee the details of the call. we don't expect to get it. what the white house is saying is they confirm that china has already reached out but they don't want to get into diplomatic discussions. so how deep this discussion went we're not sure at this point but it is very telling how quickly this happened. i mean, as soon as we knew about this call between donald trump and taiwan, before we even knew the details. and he's now tweeting that it was they who reached out to him. that is how quickly china was reaching out to the u.s. what the white house has been saying is kind of a very, very
careful response. that it is committed to the one-china policy as elise was saying. and she also mentioned the pakistan call. the pakistani government -- out the call with donald trump and directly quoted him ads saying to the prime minister you are a terrific guy. you have a very good reputation, you are doing amazing work, which is visible in every way. highly unusual to see read out in like that in a phone call from the president elect. so what the white house responded to that with was that, you know, again very diplomatically, very carefully, not wanting to criticize trump for saying, you know, president obama has been benefitted -- and i'm read directly from the white house response here. has benefitted from the professionalism and expertise of career diplomats at the state department. they were able to offer him good advice about engaging with world leaders. every president has benefitted from that advice. and i think president trump
would certainly benefit from it in the same way. >> interesting. michelle kosinski. i appreciate the reporting. before air time i spoke with kellyanne conway. kellyanne can you offer clarity on this phone call president elect trump had apparently with the president of taiwan? do you know what was discussed? >> publicly i would just like to say whatever is in the read out and what's been publicly disclosed is really the only thing i'll have to say on the matter anderson. >> the u.s. doesn't recognize taiwan as its own nation. u.s. views taiwan as part of china. doesn't support taiwan independence. u.s. president hasn't apparently spoke on the a leader of taiwan since 1979. i think there is a tweet from the democratic senator chris murphy saying these are major pivots in foreign policy without any plan. that is how wars start. does -- i mean -- this does signal some sort of a shift in
the president elect's, you know, strategy vis-a-vis china or taiwan? >> well it sounds like senator murphy's tweet is pretty incendiary and does not signal much of a shift from what seems to be the documented democratic response to the election results. this is how wars are starting and it is a major policy shift because you get a phone call. that is pretty negative and presumptives you. >> auous. >> a this has been long-standing u.s. policy towards china not to recognize taiwan. >> right. again i can't discuss anything beyond what's been publicly said. and this is the commander in chief and will be president of the united states and he either will or will not disclose the contents of that conversation. but he's well aware of the u.s.
policy. >> the briefing materials president elect trump has used with phone calls with world leaders. whether or not he's used state department briefing booklets and information and the expertise of the people in the state department that's been available to him. can you confirm if -- if he did con summit th consult that before this phone call? >> i can confirm that he has access to those materials and he has access to diehl briefings and he has access to other information that comes to him from official government age anlss. >> does he read it though? >> of course he reads it. he's the busiest guy on the planet. pretty much has been for a while now. president elect pours the time in. he and vice president elect pence have talked to probably about 45 or 50 leaders now or met them. he's talked to 80 people or so as advisors are. folks offering their counsel, their experience, their vision.
he takes information given to him and provided. he avails himself of any number of different information sources including those from the state department and including those that come from intelligence briefings. >> just in terms of how it works, is there a policy before talking to a world leader or the president of taiwan that he would be briefed by the state department? or that he would make sure to, you know, be fully up on u.s./taiwan's unofficial relations? >> you are presuming that he's not. and i don't remember any discussions ever being asked about president obama or president elect obama i think eight years ago at this time. >> well he's never spoken to the president of taiwan. it is new so that is why i'm asking. >> as president elect i'm pretty certain that president obama spoke to world leaders in preparation for taking over as president of the united states and commander in chief and i can't imagine if he was asked here or elsewhere if he had been
properly or fully briefed considering he had very little experience himself. >> this is uncharted waters. not since, you know, for decades. >> anderson, president elect trump is fully briefed and fully knowledgeable about these issues. on an ongoing basis, regardless of who's on the other end of the phone. >> how is the structure right now on the transition. where -- you know, where is the discussion coming from of whom he should be having phone calls with? how does that actually work? >> that just works in an orderly fashion. as the matter of the executive committee. a matter of the president elect, the vice president elect, other advisors to the transition maki making suggestions and we're happy to schedule the calls and it is very orderly. we schedule the calls and make sure there is plenty of time for the phone calls. and so far they have just gone really well. dozens and dozens of phone calls and a few meetings by world
leaders by vice president elect pence and president elect trump all the while being sensitive to the fact we have a current president and current vice president still in office. he's having these private conversation, giving a read out here and there about them. but not trying to make policy and not trying to make waves until he's actually the president in six and a half weeks. >> i guess that is the question whether a phone call with the president of taiwan, which is a major shift in u.s. policy or, you know, just happened to have that direct contact is in fact making waves. there is another piece of cnn reporting. a different administration official says there was no contact with either the white house or the state department about the call beforehand. request you confirm that? >> i can't confirm that. but i tell you yesterday there was a major shift in policy in that donald trump and mike pence went to indianapolis and helped carrier broker a deal that kept 1100 employees here. that is a major shift in policy.
the current president and vice president could have done that. they just did not do that. i can't confirm particular intimate details of phone calls that are being had between the president elect and world leaders. just won't do it. >> and obviously we did a lot of reporting on that yesterday, particularly, as well as both president elect trump and vice president elect pence, their thank you to the beginning of their self described thank you tour. just finally, can you comment on the pakistan government released what they said was a readout of the phone call between president elect trump and pakistan's prime minister. it was a one-sided readout. it was allegedly what donald trump had said. not what the pakistan prime minister had said. was that accurate? and does it? -- it was very unconventional for pakistan to do that. it was a brave protocol. is that something which was concerning to the president
elect? >> we refer to anything like that is done you get the full benefit of the conversation to the extent both sides agreed to a ruee read out. in the meantime, beyond what is publicly disclosed, i just cannot disclose anything further than that. it would be highly inappropriate for any of us to do that. so i'm going to have to stick with that. i can talk about a lot of aspect t about the transition. i can talk about many aspects of the campaign manager forum last night. a number of different policies that the president elect is very focused on for his first 100 days when he gets to washington. but i can't and i won't disclose any further details on private conversations, let alone private conversations that the president elect is having with world leaders. >> kellyanne conway, appreciate you being with us, thank you.
>> thank you. >> i continue to ask kellyanne conway questions about that symposium yesterday. we're put itting the full interview online. much more ahead. i'll speak with freed zachary and ivan watson about why even a phone call to the president of taiwan is a big deal. and a young couple recruited by isis. i love my shop,
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the conversation with taiwan's president in particular obvious lit isn't any casual phone call. i it has potential for enormous diplomatic implications. a senior official from china has already reached out to the the white house about the call. joining me now fareed zachary and ivan watson. a lot of people are say so what, it's phone call. it is a diplomatic break. not the tradition but does it really matter? >> it is a huge break.
welcome 47 years of diplomatic tradition. the united states does not really recognize taiwan as country. it has not recognized, allowed for a certain kind of constructive ambiguity. >> we don't have an embassy. >> constructive ambiguity. we don't completely buy the chinese argument that this is all one country. but the really worrying thing is, is donald trump winging this? or is it part of a sustained policy that makes sense that's been talked through. if it is the latter, fine. let's understand the policy, understand the pluses and minuses. kellyanne conway said the president elect is having private conversation with world leaders. the president elect and the president don't get to have private conversations really with anyone. there is historically always been a government official, a state department note taker who is recording what is happening to make sure first of all that it is there for history. but also to make sure that the rest of the government nose what's going on. >> even if the conversation is not released publicly.
>> they could be secret conversations but they are never private in the sense there is always someone in the government involved. i did research on hervet hoover and i was struck that even then there was always somebody recording it. now let's be clear. let's be honest. donald trump may have business interests in taiwan. we know he spoke to the president of the philippines and he does have business interest. in fact his business partner has been named the special envoy from the philippines to the united states. >> we haven't been able to confer business in taiwan. >> i said may. >> -- there in september perhaps for a luxury holtal but again we haven't been dr -- >> and to be clear you want to be sure there is somebody taking down what happened in the conversation. whew what's worrying about this is, you know, is he winging it? is it part of a strategic plan?
is it part of a strategic plan to put pressure on china, it is perfectly plausible. let's understand about it. let's hear about it. but the president of the united states and the president elect don't get to do this without anybody in the united states government knowing about it. >> in taiwan, obviously it is enormous. they want full diplomatic relations restored with the united states. >> they are relatively isolated and the taiwanese crave official recognition. and the chinese news agency has already interpreted this phone call declaring a historical dialogue. first time in nearly 40 years. so there is a important symbolism here. how will the chinese react to this? will they see this as a gaffe? or will they see this as a deliberate provocation a step on chinese sovereignty. since they see taiwan very much as part of their state. even throe the taiwanese view
themselves as a separate country. >> cnn reporting that a trump transition advisor who supports the independence who's involved or at least in the past helped facilitate it. which it is not a impartial state department employee. what do you make of that potential involvement? >> i think ivan is exactly right. this is very thorny territory. china believes taiwan is a protons. province. this would be one of the largest shifts in foreign policy in decades. and you hope it would have been thought through. would have gotten everybody in the united states government on board, we understand what it is. ronald reagan did make a few ov overtures as president, but they were considered. thought through. and calculated. and china at that point was 2% of global gdp. china today is 16% of global
gdp. second largest economy in the world. one of the largest holders in american debt. again it is not that you shouldn't do it. but let's just hope there is actually some thought about this. >> i was trying to ask kellyanne conway about what is the process this is decided. she says he has access to information but didn't really go into any level of detail. and obviously ivan this comes at relations with china are always fraught. but there is a lot of flash points right now in south china sea and elsewhere that are, you know, very much in the balance. >> absolutely. south china sea. disagreement between washington and beijing over a huge body of water china claims to be pretty much its own sovereign territory. >> u.s. needs china's help to deal with north korea. and as some people have pointed out this kind of could potentially raise tensions at a time when you don't really need them with some of these very
serious challenges already on the table. people were not terribly worried that taiwan was going to explode even though you had the recent election of a pretty independent taiwanese president in recent history. >> and we need china for iran sanctions. china has been very helpful to the united states. you need china any time you do sanctions against anyone. any time you want to intervene with the u.n. involvement. any time you want to put sanctions on. any time you need funding for some international project. the china is the second largest economy in the world. we want or the clear what exactly our strategy is if the point is to piss them you have. >> donald trump did, you could argue he provoked them in ways during the campaign. a whole host of issues. >> candidates have often done that. people sometimes forget when bill clinton campaigned he
talked about the butchers of beijing referring to tiananmen square. and then you realize you are speaking for the whole country. and i hope that is what donald trump is thinking about, that we have the entire country to think about. not just one particular rhetorical shot that you can take. because were china to react badly. and it is difficult to imagine that they will simply take this quietly. they asked to see, henry kissinger is in china right now because they are trying to make sense of what is happening in the united states. but they have historically reacted very strongly and almost --. to any type of sentiment. >> high drama in a south carolina courtroom where the jury in the trial cannot reach a
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joining me is cnn political commentator jeffrey lord. and christen powers and jonathan dasny. >> what do you make of the phone call? >> the biggest question is whether it was an accident or something he did intentionally. he tweeted out he received a phone call and it was a phone call to congratulate him and he took the phone call. but, you know, it was on his schedule the day he was going to meet with john bolten. former b form former ambassador to the under george george bush.
there are people he is looking at from positions in the administration who advocate this kind of behavior. it is possible that. it is also possible he took a phone call and didn't know he was supposed to take it though i find that highly unlikely. >> jeff, there are questions raised about how much donald trump is receiving intelligence briefings and probably more to the point in this issue, communicating with -- communicating with the state department, actually getting readouts from the state department or consulting with them before a call like this. >> no it is not a concern. i'm sure he's consulting with somebody there in his intelligence group there that cease surrounding him. general flynn, etc. but anderson, i would point out that four presidents of the united states that i can think of right off the bat, franklin, roosevelt, nixon, reagan and obama. and have taken often and then
changed major foreign policy with different countries. franklin vo franklin roosevelt recognized the soviet union. richard nixon famously opened the door to china, stunned the world. >> but jeff nobody did it as president elect. this is ridiculous. >> ronald reagan did the same in his very first press conference with in terms of the soviet union. and of course president obama -- >> discuss it with somebody first and met -- we're talking about 40 years of diplomacy. >> i how -- >> hold on. but maybe what you would do is maybe have meetings and talk to people and think this through. not just do a phone call. >> the latest reporting, officials from the state department said that he -- they have not been in touch with anyone from the transition regarding president elect trump for any of husband phone calis
>> i understand that. but my point is -- >> i guess why doesn't that concern you? >> what i'm sorry? >> why doesn't that concern you? there is a state department for a reason. >> that is a good point. when richard nixon did his opening with china, he didn't talk with the state department. i believe. he even kept his own secretary of state out of it. he dealt with henry kissinger. his own private national security advisor. >> jeff, here is the problem. first of all we're normalizing donald trump again. and if you look back at the debates and throughout the campaign, it was very clear donald trump had no idea about diplomas. he had no idea how to talk about the world. >> the reporting is that mike pence has been consulting with the state department for some of his -- >> that's fine. he's the vice president elect. this is the problem long-term.
donald trump doesn't know diplomacy. he doesn't understand the world. and this sort of phone call is mind boggling. because anybody that had a smidgeon -- the two of us. if we were president elect we would know that there is a long-term one china policy. we would not accept this kind of call. >> but so what? >> and hold on jeff. and we would at least call up the state departments, the experts and say how to do we handle this? and number two, in case you didn't know, donald trump is president elect currently. he does not have the authority to be talking to and essentially making these kind of steps that put the united states and the current president in the kind of danger that -- >> all right john -- >> the other guy. >> jeff, i want you to be able to respond to that. >> it's ridiculous. my friend. >> look. when barack obama was just the presidential nominee of the democratic party he went over to berlin and gave a major foreign policy speech. something no other presidential nominee had ever done and he wasn't even president elect. come on, john. john, john. -- >> but wait a minute jeff.
he didn't meet with the head of state. >> john -- >> he didn't meet with the head of state that he went and gave a speech and by the way -- >> -- a problem. you are advocating the status quo. and donald trump has been elected to do things differently. now, i don't know and you don't know -- none of us know -- what's really going on behind the scenes with this phone call. but what it was -- however you want to describe it, this is something that we're going to see a lot of in the future, where the current ways of doing things, in washington which the american people have said does not work are being changed. radically show. >> i'm sure there would be many who agree with that. >> i think that is a great point, yeah. >> maybe he's winging it -- >> i don't think he should be winging it. i think it is right that people want to do things differently. and i i don't think people are necessarily opposed to a different tact with china perhaps. the issue here like i said what
we really need is more information. we need to know what went into the thinking behind this. and it does seem he just responded to an incoming phone call which doesn't seem like a strategy. and there was a reason, jeffrey you were saying so what. well there is a reason united states sided with china. it is one of the biggest markets in the entire world. -- >> -- change -- >> but with china and taiwan it is an either/or. you either are doing business with taiwan or you are doing business with china. china is not going to say you continue to have a relationship like 24. this is not the way they are going to work and they will very likely retaliate. >> diplomacy does have some -- but any normal diplomat running for office in the united states senate b understands the rules and you can't just come in like a bull in a china shop and upset these things it. does tame tyke and takes thought and process talking to people. and this is the problem we have to face with donald trump.
he's unprepared. he does not understand the world and we have a man walking to the oval office that will tweet and will pick up phone calls and not go through those kind of processes that can result in a shift but should do so in a very thoughtful way. >> john, we've done it your way and the government is in a mess. that is all i can say. the very first thing that ronald reagan did. and actually there was some accident to it. for decades the soeviet ambassador had been the only one of 150 ambassadors to get a private entrance into the state department to go directly in private elevator to the state's office. when ronald reagan became president he drove into that garage and was turned away. the message sent things are changing. whether this is internal or not. things are changing. message delivered. >> i think it is right as a president to set the policy for the united states. it is just the united states isn't his toy.
this is bipartisan policy through republican and democrats and i think he needs toe maybe spend some time and understand that. >> leave the conversation there. everybody have a great weekend. this week the ohio state campus was shaken by vials. the fbi said the 18-year-old would be terrorist or terrorists may have been radicalized by al qaeda or isis. up next, another couple young and in love and radicalized. ow a university of mississippi cheerleader and her boyfriend committed themselves to isis and ended up in a u.s. federal prison. when it comes to healthcare,
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isis, a radical extremist? hardly. he's as american as you and me and he got into this mess because he fell in love. >> reporter: how did this happen? >> where do you want know start exactly? >> his friends know him as mo, born and raised in mississippi. muslim and non muslim friends. hit and miss with the ladies. until at mississippi state university in his senior year he met and fell head over heels for a mississippi state cheerleader named jalen young. >> yes. she was beautiful and things like that. >> she's american too. and mississippi all the way. but within months mo says jay lynn was changing. converting to islam. changing her dress. then began introducing mo to the online brand of islam she had been learning about. >> this happened so fast. >> it did. maybe we were going a little too
fast. you know. >> but you were in love. yes. yeah. >> and she was coming to you, right? >> yeah. and, you know, that love can ultimately, you know, blind out your intelligence. >> the federal bureau of prisons rarely grants access to convicted felons like mo. this is an exception. an agreement wean the department of justice, cnn and muhamed himself, perhaps for all to understand just how powerful isis's online propaganda can be. his girlfriend jay lynn young merely showed mo the videos. the videos did the rest. >> when she showed me that video i think it just kind of brought a tenseness in her. you know, i felt those same things, i guess, just because she was feeling it. >> and that progressed. >> yeah.
it progressed to the point that i -- my mind wasn't thinking straight. >> mo, what were you going to do? drop your entire life and run over to a war zone? >> yeah. i mean, when she first looked at these videos, she had, you know, a strong belief that okay this is the group to really help out, you know, the muslims. rebuild towns, people were helping to feed -- feed the needy. >> according to the fbi jalen young reached out to a contact she thought would help her and mo travel to turkey. cross the board entire the syria and join isis. the two secretly married. began an intensive preparation period. and bought oneway tickets to istanbul. >> on the day they packed their
bags he wrote this goodbye letter to his parents. the first line, i love you, i'm sorry, i've decided to leave and won't be coming back. they got as far as as the boarding gate. >> the moment they arrested you? >> my heart sank. my whole body shut down. >> turns out the online isis recruit who are had been helping make arrangements for the couple was in fact an fbi employee. this past summer they both pleaded guilty. mo given an eight year sentence citing his cooperation with authorities. jalen young, the master mind was sentenced to 12 years. she's refused to speak to cnn. >> you haven't said her name once. >> yeah. >> you haven't. no i have not. >> he also finds it difficult to speak about the other woman in his life t woman he wrote this final goodbye to. mo's mother was suffering from cancer at his arrest. she died earlier this year. >> and that is probably -- or is
one of the the biggest regrets that i have in my life. still haunts me to this day. that i would prefer this woman that i've been together with for under a year and lie to my mother about where i was going. >> his other regret, that in time of confusion, especially about his religion, he failed to reach out to his dad, an imam himself, who would never have taught his son to kill or hurt anyone. >> i wish i had just reached out to my dad. if i had just asked him, he would just illuminate me on what was happening, what's really happening with this group. i feel like that i should owe people back to say, hey, don't do what i did. it's -- there is no -- that is not what they are doing over
there. what isis is doing over there, that is not islam. >> anderson, mo declala is not bitter. in fact he tells me he's glad he was caught. he tells me now had me made it to syria there is a good chance he'll be dead. when he leaves prison he'll be 32 years old. ahead a dead locke jury in the murder trial of the south carolina police officer charged in the killing of walter scott. a singer juror holding out. coaching means making tough choices. jim! you're in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the only brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp.
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breaking news. jurors in the walter scott shooting trial are deadlocked with a sichg will male injure or holding out. smik al slager faces 30 years to life in prison. he's charged with the murder of death of scott, after a traffic stop in april to 15. the killing captured on video. hard to forget that video. what are we hearing? there's been a lot of back-and-forth between the jury and the judge today. >> yeah, anderson, it was a roller coaster day in this trial. the judge and jury going back and forth, seemingly every few hours. the jury telling the judge that
they were having a hard time coming to a consensus. then the judge essentially tell them to go back and work harder and deliberate until they came to a decision. it started around 1:00 p.m. when they asked for testimony from a specific witness. minutes later, they gave a note to the judge saying they were having a very difficult time coming to a consensus. the judge issuing an allen charge, telling them it was their duty to come to a verdict. the jury deliberating for a lot longer. they came back with three separate notes for the judge, indicating that again, they were having some trouble. the judge then asked if they were hopelessly deadlocked. they thought if perhaps they had clarification on some laws they could come to a decision. they ultimately asked the judge for the trial to be postponed until 9:00 a.m. monday and the judge conceded. >> is it the holdout juror who communicated with the judge? >> yeah, that was one of the most fascinating parts of today. one of those three letters to the judge that i mentioned was
actually an emotional note from the one holdout juror who told the judge he could not in clear conscience convict michael slager. interestingly enough, a separate part of that note said he could not look in walter scott's family's eyes and tell them michael slager was innocent. clearly indecision there. the other two notes coming from the jury foreman who said that it was just that one juror, that the 11 others were already decided. the third note saying that the juror was having, quote, issues. apparently that juror at some point became very emotional. and could not come to a decision along with the rest of the jurors. >> walter scott's family just spoke. what did they say? >> very emotional response from them. one of their attorneys saying that this isn't a story about one black family against michael slager. that this was the world against michael slager, p in the pursuit of justice. they pray the one undecided
juror reflects over the weekend and comes to a conclusion on monday so they can put this behind them and begin to heal, anderson. >> joining me is criminal defense attorney. how common is it that there's a one holdout juror. >> it's uncommon. typically all you need is more than one to have some kind of an alliance. one juror is usually going to be overcome by the will of the other jurors. but in a case like this, defense attorneys like me admittedly aren't big fans of allen charges because we view them as sort of putting undue pressure on that one juror who may be holding out. usually holding out for an acquittal. >> the judge has told the jury, i mean, to continue. is it rare that the judge actually knows who the holdout juror is? >> in south carolina, the general rule is that the judge can't ask the jurors specifically about the division, who's voting what way and where. but if the jurors tell him without him asking, then there's
no constitutional violation. but as a general rule, the judge isn't supposed to know the breakdown among the jurors. practically speaking, he or she is usually going to find out. >> if there is a -- if the holdout continues to hold out, there would be a mistrial, i suppose, i assume, a retrail trial. there's a federal case against slager. how would a mistrial affect that? >> generally in the federal context, the federal government has a policy, not a constitutional rule, but the petit policy. if there is a state prosecution that ends in either an acquittal, or a conviction, then the federal government has to look at whether or not substantial federal interests are vindicated. it may not feel that's the case. first of all, this is not an acquittal. this would be a hung jury. but additionally, the federal government probably views this case as vindicating civil rights law as opposed to simply state murder laws. >> this is a case where it was
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thanks for joining us for the second hour of 360. a break in nearly 40 years of diplomatic practice. donald trump spoke on the phone with the president of taiwan. this happened without any contact with either the state department or white house according to administration official. trump tweeted twice about this tonight. first the president of taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency, thank you. interesting how the u.s. sells taiwan billions of dollars in military equipment but i should not accept a congratulatory call. what more do we know about how this all came about? >> we understand that an adviser to president-elect trump's transition team, steven yates, a very pro-taiwan, former official with the reagan administration, with the bush administration, with vice president cheney, he was in taiwan and helped to facilitate the call. we understand that this wasn't