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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  December 8, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PST

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that's it for us. thanks for watching. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts right now. and breaking news, donald trump revisits his greatest fits in des moines. >> we will make america strong again. we will make america rich again. we will make america safe again. and we will make america great
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again. >> this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. the president-elect announcing new members of his team today. scott pruitt, a climate change denier tapped to head the epa. then there's andrew puzder, trump's pick for secretary of labor. he's the ceo of a corporation that owns hardy's and carl's jr. and he's against a $15 an hour minimum wage. meanwhile, kellyanne conway implied she would not take a white house job because she has young children. but what about men with children? let's go live to jeff zelly in des moines. did donald trump particular to the script on his thank you tour? >> reporter: good evening. he did stick to his script. this is the presidential-style
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donald trump. we've seen a variety of donald trumps but tonight, exactly one month from election night when he found out he was indeed on his way to the white house, he stuck closely to his teleprompter speech. he thanked the people of iowa. he was basking in the glow of the victory. he visited ohio earlier. a very interesting moment at the beginning of the rally. there were a couple of small pockets of protesters. he was in the middle of talking about ohio, mentioning john glenn when protesters broke out here. watch how donald trump reacted to this. >> for the next seven decades, he devoted his life to serving the american people, which he did from the cockpit of his fighter jet. tough times. in the weightless silence of his mercury -- oh, that's okay.
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that's okay. we have to respect john glenn. that's all right. i think you're actually on our side. they just don't know it. they will be soon. >> interesting. i think they are actually on our side but they don't know it yet. that does represent one of the challenges he faces here. he's going around to these battleground states that he won, speaking to his supporters who voted for him but he does also have to win over other people with his ideas and it's clear that that is something that he's trying to do here, trying to bring his message of change that he campaigned on into reality. we know the realities are far more difficult as he builds his cabinet, don. >> sounds like he's taking an oath from the current president on how to deal with protesters. fill us in on the latest cabinet picks. >> reporter: we have nearly all of his choices except for four positions.
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secretary of state, top among them. i am told by an official look for that potentially early next. a long list of people still in the running for that. also, an opening in the veteran affairs administration, an opening in the interior department, at the department of agriculture. other than that, what we're seeing is a pattern running throughout all of them. conservative business men, largely business men, running the epa or tapped to run the epa, tapped for other positions here and they by and large are opposed to the obama agenda, the obama era regulations. this is to be expected here. of course, one of the interesting things we see, republican presidential candidates campaigning to reduce the size of governments and eliminate some of these departments. donald trump is not doing that. he's naming someone to all of these positions, like epa, like education, like the department of labor and transportation. look for them to try and change much of what has happened over
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the last eight years. also look for most of them to get confirmed. there may be a hiccup here or there but important to remember here that republicans control the senate. democrats are objecting to a lot of these choices, particularly epa. but, again, republicans control the senate and they will need 51 votes to get these nominees confirmed. >> jeff zeleny, thank you very much. i appreciate it. i want to bring in cnn analyst david geragos and analyst kristen power. david, i'll begin with you. donald trump won the white house exactly one month ago. did you here a campaign speech here or a unifying message tonight? >> he's mostly just playing to his base, don. he's gradually moderated. he didn't go into a lot of attacks against other individuals but i'm not sure it's working in the way that perhaps he wanted. we do have a new survey out
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today from pew, comparing the approval of his appointments and the way he will explain what he will do as president to past presidents and similar polls were taken all the way back to george bush sr. in 1989. he has low numbers. 40% on both. it does not appear that he's really building a base. he's got a reliable base but he doesn't appear to be going beyond it. >> kristen, there's always twitter. the carrier union boss who trump lashed out is now receiving death threats. there they are right there. do you they they are knee-jerk reactions or is it more calculated than that? >> could it be both a little bit? >> it could be both. i think he's reacting at the moment and i think a lot of what he does is very calculated.
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he was getting great coverage for this deal that he did and this person comes along and basically rains on his parade and he has in the political morning consult poll, 60% of people thought better of donald trump after this deal, including about 42% of democrats. so now along comes somebody and says actually what you said wasn't true, it's not that many people. the fact of the matter is, it's still a lot of people. and donald trump, i think, another way to handle it would be to say, hey, let's figure this out and try to get these people's jobs back. instead, he attacks him and starts talking about something that he's really never said before, which is blaming jobs going to mexico on the unions. this is a new story line because before it was always that it was trade and globalization that was taking the jobs. >> that would have been the less reactionary and more diplomatic way. should he be more careful? >> yes. i think he should be more careful. but donald trump got to where he is with such an improbable
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election and doing this kind of stuff. sew probably feels, i can do it my way. >> i think we're seeing a pattern emerge here and that is that donald trump approaches these questions of being presidential and governing from a power perspective and that is, do i have more power than the other side? am i the alpha male in this situation? and i'm going to seize upon every situation and basically threaten the people who may oppose me or stand in my way. if you don't do this, i'm going to do that. >> you know, david, it's different when you're knocking the media and knocking a big company. what about an individual like that? essentially punching down? >> i don't think he was punching down although he did go after this union chief. i thought what we saw tonight in iowa, very importantly in this rally, after a series of threatening american companies in this union chief and going after this union chief, tonight he was actually trying to bully china. he went after them right at the
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beginning, bringing terry branstad up, his new ambassador to china. he brought up a series of complaints that normally would have been handled by diplomats and quietly in order to get china to come around, especially trying to get chinese help on stopping the crazy north koreans from blowing up things. but this pattern of constantly using threats, here's what i want to you do if you don't do it, boom, i'm going to hit you on something, that is, i think, very unlike any president i've seen. it's very new and i think may work for a while but ultimately it has real problems -- we'll run into real resistance down the road. i think the chinese, among others, will not be bullied. >> kristen, his supporters seem to like it. is he an equal opportunity offender. is that right? >> he's very aggrieved and sees
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himself as being under attack and undervalued and i don't know that he thinks it's punching down. i think he feels like he's on the same level. >> counterpunch. >> yeah, a counterpunch. look, he's attacked reporters by name. i've been attacked on twitter and he's singled out katy tur in the middle of tens of thousands of people, singled her out. i mean, putting her safety in jeopardy. he doesn't seem to understand the power that he has. i really don't think that he gets it, that he doesn't -- i think he just thinks it's two people -- >> i think he understands it all together too well. that's the problem. >> really? >> the power that he has. >> especially when people say to you -- because now that the union chief is saying that he's getting death threats, kristen mentioned katy tur and others and when he attacks someone, reporters, not just me, anyone, any reporter, most times they don't respond.
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but people do come after you, david. you think he understands that that is a threat to, you know, someone's safety, when he attacks? >> well, i'm not sure he appreciates the safety angle so much but i do think he wants to draw blood. and when he goes after boeing, the air force one costs, he's scoring points with people who want to cut government costs but mostly he's trying to bully boeing and they are apparently talking to him now. but the bigger issue is how he goes after these individual companies, saying if you now leave, i'm going to deregulate and the rest. if you leave anyway, i'm going to slap a 35% tariff on you. you're not going to be able to sell your cars because the prices will go up 35%. that's a pretty big threat. >> i want to move on to talk about this because i felt a certain kind of way about it in the beginning and then after thinking about it, i think i changed my mind. we're learning tonight that
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donald trump is going to stay on his executive producer of "ce b "celebrity apprentice." he's going to turn the business over to his sons but will keep the stake in the company. the second part we'll talk about, turning it over to his sons, but the fact that he's getting royalties from "celebrity apprentice," a show that he helped make successful, i think the media is reading too much into that. ronald reagan got royalties from movies he was in. the current president gets royalties from books. is there a distinction? >> that suggested he was still having some sort of role in the production of the "celebrity apprentice." if it's just receiving royalties, yes, i agree, it would be the same as receiving royalties from a book. if he was involved in it, i would say no.
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he was hired to do a job. one job. he's the president of the united states and that's what he needs to be spending his time on. >> david, what do you say? >> well, i think -- look, i think the amount of money is minimal and it's not worth talking about. i do think there's a question of taste. do you really want to be connected as president of the state with "celebrity apprentice" all throughout your presidency? i would think that would you move on. i think the big question, the big enchilada is december 15th when he reveals what is he really doing about his company. >> there's a conflict of nbc and nbc news will cover him throughout his presidency. let's talk about his sons, though. you said he's going to keep a stake in the company. his sons are going to run it. do you think that's enough? >> no. >> no? >> no, it's not. imagine if chelsea clinton was running the clinton foundation and was working on the transition team, which is
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essentially what's happening right now with his children and then hillary was like, oh, and i'm just going to hand it off as president to chelsea and she's going to run this with bill clinton and people would be hysterical. their heads would be exploding. this was donald trump krcriticid this when she was secretary of state. "the new york times," who is liberal, they said if she won, they should give up all operational control, bill and chelsea. so i just don't understand how anyone would accept this. >> but i also hear, david, the surrogates are defending it saying we should give him a chance. everybody should give him a chance, the same chance that they gave hillary clinton. >> when did she get a chance? >> she's not president-elect so she had no chance. defending it that way doesn't make sense. >> i don't even understand what that means in this context. >> right. >> listen, he's already got foreign diplomats going to his home in washington throwing
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parties. they are under pressure. they feel under pressure that when visiting heads of state or government come in here to washington, they shouldn't stay at blair house, they should stay at his hotel. and his people are going to be out looking for hotel opportunities in other countries. we just heard about taiwan and that sort of thing. that is pay -to-play. you pay your dues, put something into my kitty and then by the way i'll have an audience with you and consider something. that's what happened in centuries gone by. i think it's fundamental and i think there will be constitutional questions. he can separate himself out. we ought to give him time to say, here's what i'm going to do and let's not judge it, prejudge it totally. let's see where he comes out. if he really separates out, we ought to praise him for it. >> i'm out of time. thank you, david, kristen. >> okay. when we come back, donald trump says he takes his cabinet appointments seriously.
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apparently not that seriously. what do his picks tell us about his presidency? afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.
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signal, signal hey guys, how's it going? that's not even music. ♪ now when you're ready, you can sell your old car and find your new one all on you know us for shopping, and now we're there for every turn. donald trump becomes president at 43 days and he is gradually filling key
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presidential posts. i want to bring in ari fleischer. good evening. i have to start with you because you're the only one here. >> good evening, don. >> let's talk trump's latest cabinet picks, shall we, his pick to head the epa is attorney general scott pruitt, a prominent critic of climate change science. what does this selection signal to you? >> well, that he wants his people in there and reverse the direction we've been going in in the previous years. with the epa, it has a lot less to do with climate change. we're still trying to find out where trump stands on those issues but a lot more on the legal epa versus going through the rule of law and through congress. that's why pruitt got that job. >> so let me ask you this. there was the gore meeting. we discussed it. the leo did i n
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the the leonardo dicaprio meeting. and then he picks a hard liner. >> first of all, cabinet secretaries carry out the president's policy. he said climate change was a chinese hoax. on another hand, he said he's open to listening to various i on it. i don't think we know yet what direction he will give the people responsible for carrying out certain responsibilities with climate change. make no mistake, presidents call the shots and cabinet secretaries carry them out. so if he has raised questions in the past about climate change, and i think what he has raised has been exaggerated, he's questioned the degree and extent to which human element has caused global warming. he has not denied that the globe is warming. he's acknowledged it is. but it doesn't matter because
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it's the president's policies that he's going to be charged with carrying out. >> he's also suing the epa, correct? >> he is suing the epa along with 28 other attorney generals because the epa is overreached and i think that's why donald trump tapped him for this job. there's a legitimate issue, he can no longer get legislation passed through congress. he went too far in enacting regulatory changes, executive orders and tried to govern by fiat and the courts have struck down many instances in which he has done that because they went beyond what any previous epa administrator had done. >> i want to play this. this is manu raju. he spoke to senator tim kaine earlier. here's his reaction to donald trump's cabinet picks, ari. >> i don't mind having an epa critic. that is not my concern. he's a climate science denier.
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and that causes me great concern because if there's any agency at the federal government that virtually every decision they make is a decision based on science. >> what about the armed services committee, the general they are putting in there, what about the idea that they are putting three generals in the cabinet. >> general flynn's trafficking in conspiracy stories that a fourth grader would find incredible suggest either that he's highly gullible or that he's so consumed with malice that he loses his ability to judge what's fact and what's fiction. >> those are tough words. he's a climate change science denier and that conspiracy theorys that a fourth grader would know better, i'm paraphrasing there. those are tough words. what's your reaction? >> well, on the climate change, i think he's an exaggerator. this is why you have a hearings process and they'll have a chance to ask the hard questions
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and get the direct answers. but what he's talked about in the past is the degree and the extent of man's contributions to climate warming. he didn't deny it. he just raised questions about the degree and extent. that's a legitimate science inquiry. >> what about flynn? >> so you're always going to have -- >> i'm sorry? >> what about flynn? what about his comments towards him? >> in the case of flynn, i think he's going to have to answer hard questions about what he said before and, again, i'm a big believer in the process, don. you can go back to anyone's record and find things that are said and your liable to defend what you said. but ultimately at the end of the day, presidents get their selections unless that person is wholly unqualified. >> let me ask you this, though. even if it's as recently as the past couple of months or within the last year? that's not ancient history.
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that's pretty recent history. >> no, i don't think it matters whether it was ancient history or recent. if it's recent, it's a little more valid. it's cause for questions and answers. i'm not willing to rule somebody out or in on the basis of a tweet. i'm willing to let the process play forward and let them explain it. the point i was making, we have a longstanding history of the loyal opposition does not object to the person on the basis of ideology. if they think a person is just not qualified, that's typically grounds to vote against somebody. i went back and looked at barack obama's picks and hillary clinton was confirmed, 94-2. despite the fact that many republicans in the senate strongly opposed her. timothy geithner, treasury, eric holder, 75-21. loyal opposition does not historically vote against somebody because they don't like that person's policies. they recognize presidents are
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entitled to put their people in place and i hope the democrats don't vote on ideological grounds and i know you'll see a split in the democrats. they will vote on ideological grounds but a lot of people will support the nominees because of tradition and because they are in tough races. >> i have to go. i'm over time here. but do you have a pick for secretary of state? >> i do not. i think the three main names have hit turbulence and we're going to get somebody new and different. >> ari fleischer, thank you. appreciate it. up next, donald trump is well on his way to filling his cabinet but just how much diversity can we expect from his team? i love getting more for less. that's why this control enthusiast rents from national. where i can skip the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. on average, four out of every five rentals at national is a free upgrade. getting a full-size and paying for a mid-size?
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the president-elect working steadily to fill his cabinet as he prepares to lead the country but he's getting pushed back on some of the people he's chosen. here to discuss now, congressman marsha blackman, michael nutter, the former democratic mayor of philadelphia. haven't seen you in a while, congresswoman. welcome back to the show.
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mayor nutter was on last night. we'll let him start. just kidding. of the 14 cabinet posts plus the attorney general, the president-elect only has five left to fill. so far, trump has chosen two women. he's chosen one asian, one african-american in their complete first cabinets. this is what president obama did. he had four women, three chinese americans, one latino. bush 43 had three women, one hispanic and two african-americans. how much diversity do you think we'll see in trump's cabinet? >> well, one, you don't have many positions left and we should probably add governor nikki haley who i believe is indian background. so at some point you run out of seats but so far, not a lot of diversity here but also when you look at president obama's cabinet and match up the numbers to mr. trump's, you also find a significant lack of government
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experience in many of the trump picks. i counted 16 people announced, eight of whom have any kind of government experience versus president obama's cabinet, almost all of whom had some level of government experience and many of them, multiple different tours in various state or federal positions. >> congresswoman m, how much diversity do you think we'll see and are you concerned about a lack of diversity? >> i think you're going to see diversity and also you have to keep in mind he's elevating the status of the small business administration and linda mcmahon, who is incredibly capable, is taking that post. so he will have diversity in there. he's going to have diversity of thought, of gender, of race. i think that this is going to be a group of individuals who are going to bring complementary skills and robust discussion and that they are going to serve the
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president-elect very well. >> uh-huh. go on. >> well, again, there are only five positions left. i think when we hear, you know, the litany of folks for secretary of state, national intelligence and a couple others, i'm not sure that there are any people -- >> let's put up secretary of state now because -- >> yeah. i'll let you respond congresswoman man. secretary of state, all white men there. go on. >> you can look at who is going to be secretary of state. there may be somebody else who hasn't even come to the forefront yet. donald trump is ahead of schedule. he is ahead of where everyone who has preceded him in the last 40 years has been in filling out this cabinet he is going to build this cabinet out well. he doesn't have to have people who have had vast government experience in there. that is what has gotten our
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country into this mess. you need individuals who -- >> congresswoman, aren't you in the congress? >> -- in a business-like manner. yes, i am in the congress and i've brought business skills. that's exactly right. i also brought -- i had an entire lifetime outside of the public sector and in the private sector and, michael, one of the things -- >> i wasn't making the argument that everyone has to have government experience. i was just pointing out a fact. >> one of the things you need to understand is that leadership skills are a transferable commodity. and what our nation needs right now is leadership skills from the private sector being brought to bear in the public sector to clean up some of the mess that's been created by individuals that think that government is the solution to every problem that we have. so -- >> let the mayor beyond.
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>> that's an interesting perspective. i think for some people -- >> it's a very solid perspective. >> that's your opinion, congresswoman. >> absolutely, it is. >> let me finish. i think for some people, those skills may in fact be transferable but they are not automatically transferable and, quite frankly, and you're an elected official and i was and i ran a government, some skills from the business side are not particularly well-suited to be in government. the government is not like your private business or your private hedge fund or your private investment vehicle. it's a little different. >> i'm not saying it is. >> and has a different responsibility. >> that's exactly right. but diversity of experience enriches a person's view, the world view that they bring. >> diversity of race and background and diversity of gender brings something else. >> and people that just have only government experience do not have a tendency to make the most thoughtful and well-rounded
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public officials. >> how about this, congresswoman. >> because they always believe government's going to be the answer. >> so the five big spots that are left, tell me who you think the african-american, latino, the asian and the women are going to be for those big five spots. why don't you tell us that right now. >> there are individuals that mr. trump is interviewing and working with and a member of the transition team and i allow him to make the news when he chooses to make the announcements and there are great people that are talking with him and he will have some wonderful announcements. >> and i enjoyed the conversation. thank you very much. thank you, mayor, congresswoman. >> why kellyanne conway says it would be a bad idea for her to take a white house job and what role will ivanka trump have in her father's administration.
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top trump aide kellyanne conway says it would be a bad idea for her to take a job at the white house and her reason has a lot of women up in arms
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right now. here to discuss is margaret hoover, mel robinson, commentator and legal analyst. mel, haven't seen you in a while. good to have you on. >> thanks, don. >> margaret, at a politico women rule event, kellyanne conway said this, my children are 12, 12, 8 and 7, which is bad idea, bad idea, bad idea, bad idea, i guess meaning for every child, for mom going inside the white house. they have to come first. and those are very fraught ages. as a mother of two, you have two young kids, what's your reaction? >> i do have two young kids and i frankly -- look, i had the opportunity to look in the white house when i was 25, 26, 27 years old and even at that level, i was there during hurricane katrina, these were 16, 18, 20-hour days and you have to do that on a very high
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tilt consistently and there's a very good reason why white house officials wear out after 18 months. you are married to your job. you're serving the country and you have an opportunity to make a difference. i get it. like, i understand what kellyanne is saying. when people say why can't you do both? she's making a decision for her. it's up to every individual to do that but i can certainly understand with small children, there's a time for everything and maybe when you're a mom of small children, it works for you but maybe it doesn't. >> just playing devil's advocate. i grew up with a single mom and was raised by my grandmother and mom and i think women can do jobs just as well as men, if not better, even when they have children at home. certainly when you are in the white house, you can afford help. people can help you.
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you can have nannies, baby sitters, you can do all of those things. even though she has the right and any woman who stays at home with her children has a tougher job than going out in the workforce, do you think that sends a right message, a double standard between women? >> we know kellyanne. we've been on air with her. she's not going to not work. she's probably just going to be working outside the white house. i don't think she's saying don't work or don't be a working person. by the way, i know kellyanne to be a dogged negotiator. i don't think she's sending a message. >> it's a personal decision. >> i think what she's doing, there are a lot of men who wouldn't take jobs at that time because of their families either. >> yeah. mel -- >> less men, to be clear. >> mel, you say this is a smart move because she will have more power and flexibility outside the white house. explain that. >> yeah, don.
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both of you already hit on some very important points and i don't think is a story necessarily about her putting her kids first. i think this is a story about her putting her entire life and business decisions first. let's think about it. choice a, become an employee of the government and work for the white house? choice b, remain an independent contractor with your own business where you have the power, you have the leverage and you negotiate what your salary is without any kind of conflict of interest. there is no doubt in my mind that this is a business move as much as it is a move about what's important to her. and if we really pay attention and women in particular pay attention to what she's doing, she is very clear about what matters to her and it's her family and it's remaining in power and in the era of donald trump and so she's going to do both. she's going to have the flexibility and she's going to negotiate a position. you watch. remain an adviser but somebody who's not on the payroll of the
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white house, don. >> you think it's a very smart move that she's making. >> of course. >> i want to say to you, emily, this is valerie jarrett, a senior adviser, a close confidant of the current president, i encouraged her to give it a try, first of all, because the experience inside the white house, working with somebody who you respect and know as well as she does, the president-elect is unique and i've had the benefit of that and i wouldn't have traded the last years for anything. that's what valerie jarrett says, a woman working in the white house now. >> i think that was a great decision for valerie jarrett. that decision worked for her and her family and i think kellyanne will make a decision that works for her and her family and she'll have that unique experience about being an independent contractor working for her business and continuing to advise donald trump. >> very well said. very well said. >> also, let's be clear, too, kellyanne's earnings, if you're
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a mother of four, you have a possibility of making more money, frankly, if you're outside the white house than in a federal -- >> i think it's blown a little out of proportion. i think people can make their own decisions as to what they want to do. again, a woman who stays at home with her kids and runs the business, that's tougher. >> stay at home with her kids, don? she's not saying i'm staying at home. >> i'm not saying she is. hold on. let me finish. meaning not going to the white house, running her own business, doesn't necessarily mean staying at home in a traditional role. don't get me wrong. that's not what i'm saying. >> i got it. but look, i think that the bottom line is, like we're trying to splice and dice this. she's turning down that job. no, she's not. you think she won't be in trump's ear for the next four years? she's doing it in a way that works for her and every woman and man should pay attention to
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that. she has leverage right now and she knows it. she's being very smart, she's being a savvy business woman and making a deal that works for her. that's what everyone should do when they are in a position to negotiate. >> she also said this. the question isn't would you take the job. the male sitting across from me who is going to take a big job in the white house, but would you want your wife to do that? what message -- what is she saying to that? would you want your wife to take that job? what do you think that meant, mel, anyone? >> i think she was talking about sitting in front of potential cabinet secretaries there and saying to them, these are men who she's interviewing and she's asking them to flip the switch. would you want your spouse to take that job? and i think what she said after that was, their face physically changed when they had to think, would i want my wife to take on a role that had so much responsibility and require so much time? in her opinion, most of the men she had been speaking to hadn't thought of it that way. >> of course not.
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>> okay. stay with us. we're going to continue much more coming up after this we'll continue to talk about this and other cabinet picks. we'll be right back. energy is a complex challenge. people want power. and power plants account for more than a third of energy-related carbon emissions. the challenge is to capture the emissions before they're released into the atmosphere. exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. our team is working to make this technology better, more affordable so it can reduce emissions around the world. that's what we're working on right now.
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designed to make your car smarter, safer and more connected. put some smarts in your car. retired general david petraeus on the short list for secretary of state despite his
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misdemeanor conviction for sharing classified information with his biographer, paula broadwell. emily, i want to start with you, you have a any interview with paula broadwell. what did she tell you about the military not letting her move on? she's never been criminally large. >> i think this is a very difficult time for paula broadwell. it's been a very difficult couple of years for her as well. she has not been allowed to retire from the military. david petraeus has been able to move on, has a job in private equity, now being considered for secretary of state by donald trump and paula has not been able to even retire from her job. she has been turned down from various jobs and she's just really looking to move on for things that happen many years ago. >> here's what she told cbs earlier. >> no, i think he's unequally qualified for many positions, but that's not my position to say. i think the president-elect would have to decide and members
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of the senate. as i woke up to the news, you know, it was a bit of a shocker that he was being considered for a cabinet position and i was both shocked that i'm still in this tenuous position and yet happy because i think he should be able to go on with his life. he's earned it. so should his family. but then it begged the question of, why shouldn't i be able to go on? >> uh-huh. so is it a double standard? she's saying he should be able to go on. should he be allowed to move on? >> of course. >> and what about her? she's -- i think she feels in some way stuck as you said, right? >> she -- she is very excited for david petraeus. she told me she thinks she's the best candidate for the job and the right fit for this candidate but david pa tretraeus is campaigning for a job and the military has not yet allowed her to retire. hey, it's great he's able to campaign for a job, i want to be able to campaign for a job as well. >> go ahead, mel, what do you make of this? >> well, i think it's the
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perfect example that explains the bias that people pretend that doesn't exist in this country. david petraeus can have an affair and so can paula, and he's now up for all kinds of positions. he's moving on with his life. she's branded the scarlet letter. it's just not these two. monica lewinsky, bill clinton, example after example. i'm going to tell you another one, trump and hillary clinton. you cannot tell me that a woman that has had three wives, don, and has done the things -- >> three husbands -- >> has done the things -- three husbands. i'm switching. three husbands. thank you very much. definitely not a woman that's had three wives would ever be elected in this country in this day and age. she should be. she wouldn't be. there is a double standard in this country, period. when the average american looks at men and women, most americans or the average american is uncomfortable with a woman in
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power unless that woman is a mother figure. a woman in power that is working, that is making choices, that, you know, maybe traditionally women haven't made. they're going to be judged differently than men. in fact, you said something, don, in the prior segment when you were talking -- i can't remember -- you were talking about the fact, i think there was a moment where you talked about the fact that there were questions that kellyanne were asking of cabinet members, would you want your wife to do this? why is that even a question? the fact that the men were shocked and kind of put back like, oh, my wife might do this job, there is a different standard by which we judge women than we judge men, period. and i hate the fact that fallpa is going through this. i'm not saying this is a good thing. i'm saying it is a reality and it's not fair. it's not fair that petraeus is now in the position that he's in and paula is picking up the scraps and branded the way she is.
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it's not fair. we need to change this as a country. >> margaret, we discussed this in the commercial break. we were talking about in context of kellyanne conway. she's at a women's conference talking about women's issues and saying to these women at least what we think is men would never have to think about that question. >> she, herself, was making the point about the double standard. >> right. >> and highlighting the fact that, you know, men often don't have to think about these things. don't think about these things, haven't traditionally thought about these things, maybe they're in marriages that don't -- it's true, women still do more, okay? i'm a mother of two. i have a great husband who helps out a lot. you know, every marriage is different but, you know, look, there is a traditional flow that is, you know, hard to just rewire. >> i think in the paula broadwell thing, we made our point. i got to go, mel. >> it's not about women doing more. it's about women being judged on different standards. >> different standards. >> as men based on doing the exact same thing. >> yeah. i think paula broadwell, your points are very good and i think on the kellyanne conway conversation a lot of that was
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taken out of context and people were making a big deal out of something that she said at a women's conference and they don't know the full context of it. thank you, all. i appreciate it. fascinating conversation. see you soon. we'll be right back. known for its perfect storm of tiny bubbles, it has long been called the champagne of beers. ♪ if you've got the time welcome to the high life. ♪ we've got the beer ♪ miller beer
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a president-elect like no other takes his show on the road. >> i'm here today for


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