tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN January 4, 2017 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
each other a little bit better. >> makes sense. i feel like one of these women could end up my wife or fiance for a while. >> in the end aren't we all dolphins swimming with sharks and looking for true love? at least on television and the rid lick list. "cnn tonight" starts now. >> dd looking for ways to rein in the power of the top intelligence adviser. sources say the president-elect wants to limit the power of the director of national intelligence. this among his twitter feud with the people who risk their lives to protect us. what will happen in the briefing? and inauguration day is 16 days away. marching band at odds over whether to perform. political correctness or
standing on principle. get to your chief national security correspondent and -- start with you jim. learned that donald trump is working on ways to limit the power of the director of national intelligence. what more can you tell us? >> first off it's not new. dni, director of national intelligence started recommendation of the post-9/11 panel to get better communication among all the intelligence agencies which was issue pre-9/11, not sharing information. instituted and since then concerned about bureaucracy. overarching security of the dni, does it serve the interests of the intelligence community? lot of talk to change it. now donald trump is saying does this work well.
our reporting is that michael flirngs trump's national security adviser is driver of this. and he was pushed out in part by this director. theres background there. i will say on the other side spoken to heads of the other intelligence agencies over the last couple of years who have bristled at bureaucracy of having overarching director of national intelligence, does it really work? there are bureaucratic issues and political issues and question is how does that actually play out under a trump administration? >> fareed? >> i think on this trump has some reasonable suspicions and skepticism, the intelligence community of the united states is crazy large. 16 agencies, spend something like $67 billion on intelligence a year, 900,000 people with top
secret classifications and as jim was pointing out after 9/11 the solution after 16 agencies is create another layer of bureaucracy on top of it. something is wrong with the system. i don't think we get $67 billion worth of intelligence. way to bureaucratic and streamlining makes sense. danger is trump is mixing this up with the separate issue of russian hack, credibility of that and two are not related at all. could want to streamline intelligence without doing that. secondly going to make it very hard to do genuine reforms because the intelligence community is now so guarded and perhaps up in arms against him. >> now people are wondering, he's not necessarily challenging the findings but mocking them. creating a situation that's uncomfortable. latest thing on twitter, intelligence briefing on
so-called russian hacking delayed until friday, perhaps more time needed to build a case. that's not challenging, that's mocking. >> this is a case unlike weapons of mass destruction and things with many different opinions in the intelligence agencies and in fact the bush administration, dick cheney in particular almost forced intelligence agencies to provide the conclusions they were looking for. this is a case in which all 16 agencies have independently concluded from what they can tell it's highly likely russian hacking. two important private security firms also concluded it was probably russia that did it. at very least seems like you would want to hear the case because it does seem a serious and credible one. >> his defense of russian head vladimir putin is mind boggling to a lot of people and increasingly becoming alarmed by it.
is it because he's sensitive about any suggestion that he didn't win outright, that he got any help from the russians? might that explain it? >> listen, i don't know. asked a lot of people that same question don. what is the driving force behind the skepticism of as fareed said, judgment of all 16 intelligence agencies and should note with confidence. october 7 statement, a month before the election and donald trump won was with confidence and intelligence agencies don't often make judgments with confidence. there's often nuance. this is one not disagreement or questioning of. i will also note it's not just democrats saying this but republicans. speaker of the house, majority leader in the senate, mccain, graham, et cetera are convinced russia is behind it. why is donald trump pushing back? it's a real question. no one knows what is inside his
head but do know the real dangers of this. on this issue because it's consensus view of the u.s. intelligence community that russia hacked election and are a threat to u.s. national security. then the question becomes in the future with north korea, nuclear capability, the next terror threat to the u.s. homeland, where is u.s. confidence in that intelligence assessment if the president-elect, soon to be president, has said the intelligence community should not be believed? there are real consequences to this. >> it's beyond just the hacking which is important but he's been very pro russia and putin all along. is it business ties? money, what is going on? >> nobody knows. on the business ties -- >> people are saying what does
putin have on him. >> it's worth reminding everyone donald trump never released tax returns after promises he would. and does lead to reasonable suspicion. my own gut is probably isn't that. maybe some loans from russian oligarchs but he seems to have developed a fascination for putin specifically. and fact he's effective and doesn't have to deal with democracy. there are populist leaders in the world who see putin as man on a horse who can get things done but don't see what he's trying to do is systematically undermine western democracy, interests, nato, european union, all things that the united states has spent decades
creating and created the pro western world we live in. >> and idea is maybe his connections would be exposed and not good for him. >> this is one of the reasons why every president since nixon has released tax returns. >> in interview last week wee wikileaks julian asaunk. >> can you tell the america people 1,000% you didn't get it from russia or anybody soshted with russia? >> we can say and have said repeatedly that our source is not the russian government and it is not state party. >> what should we make of this jim? >> listen, why trust julian asang? lay it out there. years their mission statement is to undermine what they call
secrecy-based conspiracies. on that list they list the u.s. government. their publicly stated intention is undermine the united states and other western governments and focus on that. exposing military documents and service members deployed abroad. intelligence sources deployed abroad and diplomatic cables. there's a long history here of making a target of the u.s. so the idea that julian asange is a trustworthy source is unimaginable. don't trust me or listen to the obama minutes or the democrats but republicans. mich mcconnell, paul ryan, lind cy graham.
it's almost unfathomable to understand why u.s. president-elect is investing confidence in him on this issue. >> when wikileaks happens donald trump's response was should be the death penalty for things like this. gone from -- >> can i tell what he said. sided with him in a tweet about him. but then -- he's wanted -- intelligence officials saying he's wanted over sexual assault allegations, lived in ecuador, published confidential u.s. documents and diplomatic cables. posted hacked e-mails from the dnc and clinton campaign. and for all those reasons donald trump said should be death penalty against wikileaks.
>> but i'm willing to take him at his word. what he said our source was not the russian government. of course his source is not the russian government. it's not stupid. probably many, many links between the hacking that was done and person who then eventually gave it to him. says could have been a 14-year-old hacker. two highly reputed security firms pointed out highly unlikely. for example this was spear fishing expedition, hundreds or thousands of potential e-mail addresses, not just john podesta's and same unit seems to have hacked in eastern ukraine. how many 14-year-olds on their bed are simultaneously hacking democratic national committee and folks in the ukraine?
circum stantial evidence is pretty strong. >> what kind of incentive does this pushback by trump give the intelligence community? are they going to only give him what he wants to hear? >> he had a good point. source not the russian government. let's raise the possibility he's playing donald trump. his incentive is to undermine the western system. >> putin is doing the same thing. >> he's written that in essays and manifestos so he can possibly say the source is not russian government or state actors but we know that russia in hacking used nonstate hackers to hack the u.s. system. reasonable possibility. what does it mean for u.s. and elsewhere, we have to be
skeptical of those claims just as we are of any claims. but if there's anybody you want to be skeptical of, it's julian assange on these kinds of issues. i think we just have to take this kind of thing, these charges with a grain of salt. >> quickly. got to run. >> point of the question, next time we have to do a drone strike, convince allied governments to support us, deal with cyber issue, in all those cases president of the united states will be presenting world with the confident conclusions of the intelligence community that he has just undermined. >> and late breaking news is coming in on fareed's phone. every moment he's working. thank you. coming back, donald trump trusts assange now but not what he said a few years ago. what does this mean for intelligence community?
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u.s. intelligence officials telling cnn they're increasingly dismissed and concerned about donald trump's public attacks. here to discuss. james woolcy, chairman of the foundation for defense of democracies and former director. ambassador glad to have you on this subject as well. it's amazing thing when you stand back and think that the president-elect, appears to be standing against all the u.s. intelligence agencies and every senior member of his own party in favor of russia and in concert with julian assange, what's your assessment. >> i'm not sure he's made
assessment of what go with and don't see it as signing up with assange for example. i think he's been skeptical for some time of the intelligence community and said fairly tough things. but you know, they're going to have to get used to working for a new boss. he's the one who won the election. and intelligence community was frankly i think ready, willing and able to support hillary, but they were really stunned and not quite ready to try to figure out how to deal with the winner. and i think it's going to take a little bit of time -- >> do you think it's partisan issue for intelligence officials? >> well not in a party sense, no. but i do think -- i've talked to a number of people in the last several weeks, and i do think there was a lot -- lot more
people in the intelligence business who were ready to work for their -- hillary clinton. >> do you think they would give donald trump or hillary clinton different intelligence based upon one being a democrat and one a republican? >> i don't think different intelligence but i do think what is happening is a lot of negative statements coming out of the intelligence community which basically says we would prefer to work for hillary clinton rather than for donald trump. but they don't get to decide. >> with all due respect ambassador, do you think the intelligence is wrong? >> which? >> that said russia interfered or hacked the election? >> i think certainly has been some vigorous russian activity. no doubt about that. but the key thing is did it have or have a chance to have any
impact on the vote counting, the voting machines? looks like a, whoever did it, maybe some of it russian, was not successful in getting anything done in the voting machines, and -- >> i don't know any intelligence agency has said had changed outcome of the election but did scan voter rolls. >> there's important point. op-ed in the "wall street journal" makes clear the software used here is pretty primitive and thousands of networks that have been hacked to some extent by this software. so you're not in a world in which it looks like any of this has had any impact on who won the election which is good. what we need to do is make sure
that we get these machines operating correctly and right kinds of them within the next two years so this risk and danger doesn't loom up again. >> okay. >> and things that have no paper trail cannot -- devices like that can't effectively be checked after the fact. >> i want kiersten to get in. every single intelligence agency said that russia had role in the election and as i pointed out, they don't believe it would have changed outcome, although they scanned voter rolls, freightening could duet that farment what do you make of this? >> i guess the one question for the ambassador, you're a former cia director, would you have listened to julian assange or your intelligence officials at cia? >> i don't think there's any point in listening to julian assange.
he's a ne'er-do-well. >> so you wouldn't do what donald trump is doing but would listen to the cia analysts over assange? >> i don't think i have to pick oent the cia analysts, lots of people i would listen to with respect to something like this. one, i just mentioned fellow at ai, the author of the op-ed at journal. and he's neither julian assange or somebody who works for the cia. >> so listen to them over the cia? >> i would listen to someone making a cogent point and doing it with good evidence. don't start from the proposition of i'll listen to x because i like or don't like him. >> 16 or 17 intelligence agencies doing what she's saying. >> it's no the really -- >> let's not forget, not just about russia but dnc and podesta
and evidence -- >> i don't think there's a problem with what donald trump is saying about the politization of intelligence, question is where is he getting alternate theory? if you're going to say analysts aren't giving you good information and coming up with another stream and making accusations where is it coming from? >> he's said he knows more and going to present it. >> who is he getting the information from theoretically? i don't understand. >> here's what donald trump said about julian assange in 2010 about wikileaks. >> talking about that. you had nothing to do with the leaking. do you think it's gratefzbrafl. >> should be death penalty or something. >> he said should get death penalty. went from criminal to credible.
>> and sarah palin come out to apologize for attacking assange as most conservatives did originally. now that he's siding with trump it seems like he's a wonderful human being. i personal -- he's a nefarious figure in a lot of ways, accused of rape for example. doesn't mean all the information he releases is inaccurate right? i think you can look at information and consider it but as was pointed out earlier, stated central goal is to undermine the united states and donald trump is going to be president of the united states. >> thank you. interesting conversation. thank you ambassador and kirsten, donald trump tweeting a warning about repealing obamacare, why he's telling them to be careful. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose.
a 51-48 vote in the senate today marked beginning of the end of obamacare but do the republicans have a plan for health care system once they repeal the current law? discuss with john ad lon, editor and chief of the "daily beast" and margaret hoover. >> i love that. can you do that every time you introduce me. >> do you think it's fair to call it battle royale brewing over obamacare? both the president and mike pence rallying troops for their cause. listen to pence first. >> we're going to keep our promises to end illegal
immigration, build a wall, infrastructure built. invest in rebuilding military. as commander in chief marshalls strategies with military commanders to hunt down and destroy isis but first order of business is repeal and replace obamacare. >> is that a good strategy? >> i think what is interesting about what happened with pence today, you got to read between the lines on what he did there. pence is this true blue -- he's a real conservative. credentials of paul ryan and reform conservatives and original conservatives in congress. that's what they need to need. on the other hand pence's boss president-elect is saying what is the replace. they don't have replace plan
yet. so pence is the perfect person to sort of go assuage conservatives and reform republicans to say this is first priority but if you listen to what he said in the meetings, warned republicans and conservatives to be careful not to hurt individual americans by repealing precipitously. goes along with trump's tweet. he's saying let the democrats own the failure. >> saying that republicans must be careful that the failed coverage with the -- will take place this year and dems are to blame for the mess. will fall on its own weight. be careful. but sounds to me reading between the lines of pence and what donald trump says, sounds like a rebranded obamacare. just a sticker over the top and few changes. >> he's a master of branding.
maybe just a giant marketing exercise. let's go through what donald trump said in the past. first of all used to support single pair. then going to repeal and replace with something terrific. official campaign position. parameters set out moving to more reality of governing position is keep popular provisions, preexisting conditions and kids under 26 stay on the plan and reiterated want to make sure everyone doesn't have coverage taken away. creates parameters that makes radical change difficult. if you don't take care of it, budget buster on your hands. already a trillion dollar budget -- ten trillion over ten year debt increase. fiscal conservativism out the
window, dealing with the legislation is it a problem. >> president obama urged the democrats not to rescue the republicans. saying the new plan should be called trump care, what is good for the goose? >> it's hysterical that president obama doesn't want to own that anymore, give it to trump? what is that. >> not what he's saying. >> exchanges are on the precipice of failing. if the republicans repeal quickly expedite the failure and republicans will own that. will be trump care and he will own that failure. that's why warning republicans to be careful and measured and thorough. >> so why does pence say first order of business? >> i believe he's emissary, a perfect bridge between conservatives who consider this
a big priority. >> but all right getting conservative think tanks saying repeal and delay hugely destructive to markets. there's a recognition once you move beyond bumper sticker bluftering there's fundamental problems. you know why? nothing but a slogan for a decade now. when the head of the ways and means committee said not going to to do infrastructure? the first 100 days -- >> that's the next question. are you reading ahead? can't replace obamacare like they wanted to in full. how will that be received? hard core conservatives want it replaced and infrastructure reform but if they punt on it -- >> trump has a grace period and lot of good will with the
republican conference. haven't had this much opportunity to pass policy reforms over the past decade and haven't seen it this soon. but tax reform is on the books and other policy reforms that conservatives will be happy if trump passes. >> husband is doing this. >> shut up. >> no stop. this is a guy who got in while losing popular vote by 3 million. not a major mandate here. infrastructure spending is one of the few things that hillary clinton and donald trump agreed on. massive consensus it's needed but to put that on back burner and remote this, it's setting the tone. it's not good for business or making a deal to try to unite the american people. >> to be fair, a lot of other things will be happening. scotus appointment, lot of --
so -- >> -- >> democrats and republicans trying on the nomination hearings and supreme court. >> but if you read between the lines and what is going on here, it's like he's at odds with his own party on obamacare, ethics commission and infrastructure. >> nothing new. we all knew that guy running in the republican platform didn't believe in these things but that's the thing, reform republicans have been -- wanting to reform the party and do different things and it's getting reformed not by us. >> and if you were a fiscal conservative or libertarian you're worse off than the obama administration. >> you get what you vote for. >> have you seen "hamilton"?
you know how jefferson says that financial system is a work of genius, can't dismantle it, i've even tried. this is obamacare. >> they're going to try. >> it's going to be iobamacare with a trump sticker. up next marching band at historically black college at odds over performing at trump's inaugural parade. get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. oh yes.... even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee! in means protection plus unique extras only from an expert allstate agent. it's good to be in, good hands. this is your tax return. ok. now, there are many right ways to fill out this tax return.
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the members of the marching band at talladega college at odds over invitation to perform at inaugural parade. historically black college and president will decide whether or not they will perform. victor blackwell is there for us this evening. good evening. president of the college supposed to make a decision. what's the latest? >> that decision was supposed to have come long before now. we were told all morning that the president billy hawkins would tell us on camera on campus whether or not the college band would be performing. that never happened. in fact learned that the president wasn't on campus or in the state. huddled in owe landdo with the board of trauftes. unable to make decision while the furor continues online.
talladega college's tornado marching band at center of storm. facing backlash after announced would perform for inaugural parade. sup yet about the support. >> living in poverty, schools are no good. you have no jobs. what the hell do you have to lose? >> response on twitter and facebook to the participation immediate and emotional. there is no honor in performing for one of the world's most racist people, donald trump. one man writes. another writing shame on you. while others feeling nearly 300 band members should participate. one woman writing she's proud of the school for breaking barriers of racism. another urging students to go for it. >> really? seriously?
no. >> when shirley farrell heard about this potential role, started petition urging college to withdraw. over 1300 signatures. member of the band launched counterpetition, it's no the about politics but seeing firsthand the process of a transition. farrell still thinks bad idea. >> oldest historically black college in alabama, we have a reputation of fighting for freedom and equal rights and justice and he doesn't stand for any of that. >> says most ofbded by rally in birmingham. black lives matter protester beaten by white men in the crowd. >> and trump at podium seemed to encourage that. >> trump doubled down several days later. >> maybe he should have been roughed up. disgusting what he was doing. >> i don't want the school to even give the appearance of
supporting him. >> the #talladegacollege trends on twitter but is it a hot topic here. asked people in talladega, should the band march? >> good exposure for the college. >> what do you think? >> yeah they should go. >> great to have them represent him. he's against black people which he's not. >> it all falls down to what is good for college and its students. they need it. >> this narrative that final decision not been made but developed after the backlash developed. we've obtained the application from the school to inaugural committee asking to participate and confirmation they had been selectedment on paper already a go. >> so don't know until the president decides if the band
will show up correct? >> that's true. expecting answer tomorrow, possibly friday. but band is on campus, rehearsing for some performance. also know that 150 members of this band have gone through the u.s. secret service clearance program and are prepared to perform depending upon what we hear from the president whenever that announcement comes. >> thank you victor. coming back, political correctness or standing on principle. and hate crime? you got the amazing new iphone 7 on the house by switching to at&t... what??.... aand you got unlimited data because you have directv?? (laughs to self in disbelief) okay, just a few more steps... door!
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matt first. college faced criticism over performing. president yet to make final decision. what should they do? >> if i was president would say you go. reminds me of jimmy carter boycotting olympics and russia. ultimately a mistake for the kids and in this case the musicians and in that case the athletes. i don't view performing at inauguration as endorsement of a politician, it's a celebration of the peaceful transfer of power. it's incredible opportunity to be part of something really big and would be a mistake to not let these kids go. >> simone, you say historically black college founded by former slaves shouldn't performs but legitimizes and normalizes racist comments.
explain. >> i do say that and historically black colleges under donald trump are going to be in dire straits. hasn't put together a comprehensive plan for them or minority serving institutions. shouldn't allow themselves to be used as token black group in this instance to pacify folks to say donald trump can't be racist or have prejudicial leanings in miz administration again black people. had them in inauguration parade. i think talladega has to stand for something. folks saying the kids and college need this, what the college needs is funding and support. that's what hbcus across the country need. not antics and reality tv. >> do you think it's up to alumni and president to decide, do you think the young people
understand the ramifications and historic ramifications of this? >> i don't think anybody has asked them. i didn't go to historically black college or -- but teeming with energy. i think young people are paying attention. not involving them in the decision. >> one band member started online petition to send the band. he said we believe this parade is not about politics but seeing firsthand the process of a transition. do you agree with that? >> i think that's the fundamental difference. if you view this as endorsement of donald trump then obviously a lot of americans would feel it's inappropriate to go and support him. but if you view this as
celebration of america, of the peaceful transfer of power, and something that transcends partisan politics then you go. that's where i come down on this. if i were a performer would have gone to bill clinton or barack obama's inauguration because it celebrations democracy not because i endorse for voted for them. >> i've covered a number of inaugurations and don't feel i got to see the peaceful transition of power up close. just pageantry and marching bands. >> and celebration of the next president of the united states. >> yeah four historically black universities participated in the president obama's first inauguration, grambling, hampton, howard and -- none of them scheduled for trump's inaugust rag. but obama himself says wants a
peaceful transition of power. so why shouldn't students participate? >> i love president obama okay? he was first presidential election i cast my ballot for but this is not business as usual. we will not and should not normalize this. young people are the folks that will be hurt the most under a president trump administration. we should be holding the future administration's feet to the power. if you want them to participate, show us the hbcu plan. if you want young people to seemingly endorse the president-elect, show me plan for engaging millennials and young people across the board. don't have one and shouldn't give a blank check. >> not just universities turning down invites. had a tough time attracting celebrities. it's been a bone of contention. you know they want celebrities there. celine dion, kiss, ice t, just a
few but on this part saying it's political correctness that they don't want to attend but isn't it political correctness to make someone afend they don't want to? it seems backwards to me matt. if stars don't want to attend, not being politically correct. would be politically correct to do it and say i'm doing it because it's for the country. >> but obviously wrong to compel people to come and perform before -- you know, trump as if he's a king that can summon you to washington. but look -- >> i have to be honest with you, that's what many people hear in your words when you say i think they should go and perform because in america we have a choice and some of the kids may want to go, others may not. >> they have a choice. i think there's a right choice and wrong but i'm prochoice in this case.
i would say this though, there's hypocrisy in the entertainment celebrity community. jennifer lopez saying happy birthday to the dictator of turkmenistan, beyonce performed for gadhafi's son a few years ago but duly elected president of the united states is somehow beneath these hollywood elites from going and performing. >> how much did they get paid? >> a lot. >> i think that's it. >> had to give it to charity after news broke but -- >> symone. >> this goes to show there are consequences for your words. they matter. donald trump has used inflammatory and offensive language and now nobody wants to go to his inauguration, boo hoo.
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this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. president-elect apparently trying to limit the power of the intelligence adviser. and shocking crime, four black suspects apparently assaulting a white victim while shouting anti-trump slurs. is it a hate crime? >> inside the mind of mass killer. dylann roof writes i am not sorry. have not shed a tear for the innocent people i killed. should he get the death penalty? >> get to the standoff between donald trump and intelligence agencies. michael weis, chiim, bear. and cnn's chief national security correspondent