tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN January 22, 2017 7:00am-8:01am PST
this is gps, global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live in new york. >> i donald john trump. >> today on the show the trump inauguration and four years to come. what the new president said on friday about how he sees the world.
>> it's going to be only america first. >> what his cabinet nominees tell us about how he will deal with that world. we have a great panel to tackle it all. how can we understand the ideology of donald trump? a new journal has been launched to understand that. does trumpism have a philosophy and what is it? i'll talk to the magazine's editor. china, washington's new foe and russia, america's closest buddy. how will president trump order decades of precedent in these two critical relationships? we'll discuss it all. first here's my take. on friday we heard something unusual, even unprecedented in american history. we heard the newly sworn in
president of the united states deliver an inaugural address that was an exercise in undiluted pessimism. his description of the country he now lead s vivid. american carnage. it could be the title of a gangster movie. jackson's first inaugural address was low in comparison. there's no precedent no matter how grim the reality he has chosen to begin his term in office in dark tones of despair. in the midst of the great depression franklin roosevelt told the nation they had nothing to fear but fear itself with a horrific civil war still in its last throes, lincoln said let us strive onto bind up the nation's wounds. with unemployment at 4.7% and crime rates down to a 20% low,
donald trump spoke of american carnage. many of trump supporters would argue this is appropriate. america is in dire straits. it has its problem but if you have any sense of history you could come to the opposite conclusion. america today is the world's largest and most dynamic economy. the economy has grown stealowly although steadily. unemployment has plunged. the deficit is at a reasonable 40-year average. finally, after years and years of stagnation, the wages of average americans, median income has begun to rise. crime and violent crime are down substantially. there was a small up tick recently. homicide rates are lower since the early 1960s. our air and water is cleaner than in decades. discrimination has declined.
women and minors have more opportunities to work in advance than ever before. since 9/11, the united states has had no major terrorist attack on its soil. the number of americans who have been killed by international terrorists since that date have under 100. of course, it's not just trump. many americans believe that the country is headed in the wrong d direction and they voice some of this doom and gloom. why is that if the actual facts do not support such a grim picture. one of them might be for many, many years now there's been a sustained campaign of outright negativism about the united states. americans have been told by politicians, pundits and media organizations that their country was going to hell, destroyed by immigration, trade, crime, terrorism, multi culturalism and more. on friday, they were told this again by their president in his
inaugural address. is it any wonder they believe it? let's get started. what does america first look like? let's get stralight to look at this new era? joining me is william cohen. he served as secretary of defense in the clinton administration. he heads the cohen cohen group. here is new york are richard haass and anne-marie slaughter. he's the author of a world in disarray. anne-marie served under president obama and leads the think tank new america. michael doran is here as well.
he's now a senior fellow at the hudson institute. for anyone keeping score, that's three republicans out of four on this panel. anne-marie. i'm going to give you the first word. trump in an america first speech by his own definition began by thanking the people of the world. he does see there as something global, right? >> he does. he was announcing a global nationalist movement that the parties in europe, the right wing parties will be meeting tomorrow to talk about this new support. he sees this as a resurgence of nationalism against globalism. against globalization, the global elite and he was very much putting america in that context saying america will pursue its national interest and we expect other nations to pursue their national interest and this is a global movement. >> what is it an america first
strategy do to the kind of world in disarray that you describe very effectively in your new book? >> when you start talking about america first, it sends the signal that we're going to have a very narrow calculation of our self-interest and others have to do the same thing. either weaker states will appease. some of them more powerful neighbors. we may see a little bit of that in asia towards china or just as dangerous, i think the world is on the verge of becoming something of a self-help society. people depending on the united states will say hold it. against the backdrop of all the uncertainty of the last eight years and now we have this new president who is talking about a narrow definition of america's role in the world, they will say they can't count on us. i wouldn't be shocked if he see more countries strike independent deals and think about developing their own
nuclear weapons program because they can't be as confident as america securities. >> he said two simple rules by american and hire american. if every country would drop that rule, who would buy american exports. you served as a republican senator in the reagan era. does this strike you as a sharp break from republicanism, reaganism? >> i think it's a total break from reaganism. president reagan talked about open trade and free trade and engaging the world, not retreating from it. it just returned from saudi arabia and i found some of the leadership was enthusiastic about mr. trump, president trump because they want him and believe he'll take a harder line toward iran and isis. on the other hand, they are apprehensive that he may have the u.s. embassy moved from tel
aviv to jerusal rurusalem and f taking action in protest. there's mixed reaction right now. my fear also is that we're picking enemies. we're drawing red lines. one around north korea. one around china but not one around russia. i think it's going to be quite a four years of disarray. >> mike, how does this strike you? >> i think he's laying the basis for a redefinition of the west. i think it's going to lead to stability and prosperity. i don't see the basis for fear. he just returned the churchill bust to the white house. i think that's a sign of a certain kind of mixture of nationalism and globalism. i don't think we should see these as posie in opposing view. he's going to have theresa may in washington at the end of the week. we'll have a new special relationship between britain and the united states based on this idea of economic nationalism and
i think that will set the basis for a restructuring of the u.s. european relation but not a destruction of what exist. >> america first is his slogan. that's from the 1930s from the left from a group of people at yale law school who were about keeping america out of wars. what he is saying is we will not fight other countries wars. we will not come to their aid. it's a vision of america that was absolutely anti-nato. >> i don't think he looked at the history books for this. this is a very -- the slogan what it means to the people he's speaking to, the people in ohio, michigan and so forth is i'm going to put your interest above the interest of our global commitments. >> that means our allies. >> no, restructuring. >> what's missing is a sense of
how the united states has benefitted from our leadership in the world. it was all about cost, not about benefits. the return on investment to the united states of the last 75 years of global leadership is extraordinary. stability in big parts of the world including asia and europe. unbelievable prosperity in the united states. the world is moved in directions. it's more open economically and politically. it's such a dark image. you talked about the dark image of american economy and society. it's also a dark image of the world and it ought to be much more positive. >> bill, we have 30 seconds. do you think this kind of pessimism, how does the world react to it? you travel all the time. do they view it as an accurate picture? >> they are troubled by it because the american people have been the leaders of a liberal, globalized economy. now they're trouble saying
you're on your own. you can no longer count on the united states and you must fends for yourself. if they have to fends for themselves they are unlikely want to join the united states when it comes to the united states wanting them to participate in any particular military action or diplomatic action. i think going on -- being on your own means exactly that p i think it will lead to the destruction of the pillars of security we have erected over the last 50 years. >> i'm going to ask about the strange things donald trump has done since the inaugural. in other words, just yesterday. oh look! creepy gloves for my feet. see when i was a kid there was a handle. and a face. this is nice. and does it come in a california king? getting roid rage. hemorrhoid. these are the worst, right? i'm gonna buy them. boom. i'll take them. impulse buy. ommmmmmmmmmm. with the blue cash everyday card from american express you get cash back on purchases. it's all happening.
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or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis. we're back with mike doran, richard haass, anne-marie slaughter and william cohen. i want to start with a split screen image of two inaugurals, obama's and trump. the president's press secretary
said they had the largest inaugural in history. it was -- the press secretary said it was much larger than obama's. i ask you to look at the two photographs. the reason i bring this up is the word of the president of the united states, the word coming out of the official press white house secretary is important. i recall a store that was told about the cuban missile crisis. president kennedy's envoy goes and tells them the russians have put missiles in cuba and gives them an envelope and said here are the aerial photographs to prove it. the president of france said i don't need to see the photographs. if the president of the united states tells me this, i assume it's true. isn't there something to be said for being absolutely scrupulous about voracity and accuracy when
you're speak fing from the podi of the white house? >> absolutely. on every call with president nixon. his attorney general said watch what we do and not what we say. words have a kinetic power all of their own. they can produce a reaction immediately in a world of nano technology and instant information. being careful what you say and being truthful in what you say is critical to maintaining stability and peace in many parts of the world. your word is your bond. if you don't tell the truth, you can't slip back in today's world in which if you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth. i don't think that can happen or should happen in this world. >> mike, you are much more
sympathetic toward trump. you also have a active twitter account. you're a good tweeter. what do you make of this? should there be different rules? are we in a different world where certain amount of exaggeration, bravado is okay? what am i missing? >> there was a lot of this in the obama presidency. if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. the israeli officials have told me about americans coming while we were secretly negotiating with iran and while they knew and american officials came and told them that wasn't happening. voracity is in the eye of the beholder. i think the most important thing is here -- >> you really believe that? everybody does this the same? >> the issue is what are we talking about. the key line is the one that selena zito wrote during the campaign. trump's detractors take him
literally and not seriously and supporters take him seriously but not literally. look at the picks that he's made for foreign policy. his cabinet picks are absolute mainstream republicans. they would be comfortable in any administration. as secretary cohen said, look at what he does, not at what he says. i think those picks mattis, tillerson, they send a message of strength and stability to the world. that's the most important thing. the other point i make, the one that secretary cohen eluded to, he said the saudis realize they will get serious with the iran ians. i think our allies see that america is back. that will have a stabilizing effect on the world. >> what do you make of the cia
visit. one of the things that upsets me is this constant, he's repeated many times, we should have taken iraq's oil. he's not a candidate now. you kind of have to take this seriously. you can't just say, well, it doesn't matter. i don't know what it means to not take it literally but to take iraq's oil would be an act of colonial theft that any country has not done in 70 years. it would be illegal and mean a permanent occupation of iraq. >> it would mean all those things. the united states would be b bogged down against a national armed resistance. wars of conquest is not what this country is about. we fought this wars, whether you agreed with them or not, but for principle. i disagree with what michael said. what you say matters. you can't just speak to one audience. he's not a candidate. he's speaking to the entire world. you have to broadcast, not
narrow cast. it has to been taken literally because it will be heard literally around the world. least got a pretty big inbox. i've written this book about a world on disarray. he doesn't fleed need to be goi around the world picking fights on the size of the crowd on the mall. he has plenty to worry about including his relationship with the intelligence community. i thought yesterday was an opportunity missed. he could have addressed what his relationship will be. >> you have 90 seconds. you told me before you disagreed with my take. tell me why. >> i think you're looking at averages and certainly on average, the united states is doing much better in many ways. i think trump has tapped into the fact that large groups of americans are not seeing any material improvement in their standards of living or their prospect or hopes or dreams even as others are succeeding far
better and if you miss that, it's not because the media is telling you a bad picture of the united states, it's they're reality is so far removed from the elite reality or city reality that they want somebody who is actually speaking to them. >> of course, the question becomes is are his policies going to improve them? >> that's a very different story. i don't think so. >> we're going to leave it at that. richard haass and bill cohen thank you so much. we'll be back to talk about the political plhilosophy of donald trump. what is it? we'll explain just that. smart kid. indeed. it's good to be in, good hands.
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donald trump's politics are not traditionally conservative and they're not traditionally liberal. what are they? something else all together. something probably not seen for a while in america and a new journal has been launched to examine and chart this new trump philosophy. the journal will be called american affairs and julius krein is the ed tor as does katrina vanden heuvel. you have a developed ideology
that coincide with some of the things he's been saying. explain what your rationale was. >> trump himself is not tiintor. that said i think there are a few core concepts.ntellectual. that said i think there are a few core concepts.intellectual. that said i think there are a few core concepts.intellectual. that said i think there are a few core concepts.intellectual. that said i think there are a few core concepts. >> you came at this at because during the republican primary, you're a financial analyst and you started to write a blog pointing out something that was interesting as well is that trump was alone among 17 candidates in diverging, disagreeing and dissented from
reaganism. sort of free trades, deregulations. >> it is interesting to point out that reagan took a number of enforcement pressumeasures agai free trade. i think trump is unique is that he won the presidency not only by opposing the democratic party but repudiating the dogma of his own party. that presents a unique opportunity for a broader realignment in our politics that i've never seen in my lifetime and also some unique challenges in government. >> how does this strike you? >> first of all, i congratulate julius for launching a new journal. i think it's too early in political historian would tell you it's too early to attach an ism to trump. there are some core concepts.
what we forget is the populist is he's driving a reactionary populist but there's another populist which bernie sanders ran on in the primary that's worthying about today. brexit and the election of donald trump are blamed on elites who failed to listen to the forgotten men and women. there's different ways of doing that. the nation has challenged and championed people to think about a populist that's inclusive and not divisive that doesn't scapegoat as donald trump's does. i think that's important to remember. there's going to be a fight on inside both parties, republican and democratic. a populist aggressive wing inside the democratic party, it seems critical in the wake of trump's election that if the
party will rebuild and revive. >> if trump ends up becoming the sort of populist, protectionist, nationalist candidate. it seems the politics is realigning around that open/closed dimension. the people who were saying we want protection. trump embraced the idea in the inaugural address. protection is good. it will make us strong, secure. is that the core of it? >> i think we use these terms open and closed and they have certain moralistic is istic coi that make open better. the problem, you brought up scapegoating. who is the scapegoat?
it's not a minority group. it's not even foreigners. it's the bipartisan political elite that is the scapegoat. >> it's never banks or corporations. >> it is. he's attacking carrier and ford from moving jobs away. things of that nature. >> it's tough to say it's not foreigners when the entire campaign is about muslims and mexicans. >> he's say the mexicans are smart. >> it's also too early to know what trump will achieve. that speech he gave the other day was full of promises. you have three branches of government. you have the white house. you have a congress that's teethered to the heritage foundation and you have -- >> supreme court.
>> you have a supreme court but foundation and you have -- >> supreme court. >> you have a supreme court but i think you have a tethering to a republican party in congress that's very much traditional in its supply side tax sides and you have a cabinet. fareed, davos was up in arms this year. epic fail. looks like a goldman sachs executive retreat. that will test whether trump can fulfill the promises to the working class and those he talks of as forgotten men and women. i think that's the the challenge for the progressive community to speak to those people effectively. >> is the test whether or not the economic policies work or is -- a lot of economic policies seem to be other than in trade, fairly traditional republican. tax cut, deregulation, get government out of the way, cut corporate taxes.
>> well, i think the test for everything is whether it works. i agree there's a divide between the white house and the republicans of congress. it's going to be -- trump is going to have to be very nimble in building coalitions. >> will he remake the republican party along his ideological lines? >> it's possible. there's a unique opportunity to do that. >> i think he's disruptive but not transformational. i think hit will be a figure as the republican party and democratic party remake thems o themselves to speak to the people of this time. >> we'll come back and check in. next, we'll dig in on the two biggest foreign policy challenges facing trump, russia and china. also talk about relations with each. we'll talk about them, back in a moment.
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enemy for decades then came a post-cold war. over three administrations tensions have grown reaching a boiling point over ukraine and syria. russia was likely behind the dnc hack and there are allegations and just allegations, but turning into investigations about ties between russia and donald trump and members of his team. trump and putin exchange kind words about each other. what does all this mean? joining me now stephen cohen, scholar of politics and history and staff writer at the atlantic who was born in russia. there's something that put together all the things that donald trump has said about foreign countries. they're all negative. the europeans are terrible because they don't pay their bills. the chinese are raping us, i think is the word he's used.
mexico is terrible. all muslims. we know how he thinks about japan. the one country he is always said nice things about, for years, is russia. what do you think explains that? >> i've always thought russia and america were quite similar. they both have this idea that they are unique, that they are special. they have a special destiny given to them by god. they both have imperistic tendencies and russia's run by putin who has this adolescent masculinity that appeals to somebody with adolescent masculinity. he's like an action hero leader. i think that appeals to donald trump. putin has talked about being the
last bastion of christmas dom. >> there was this idea of slarua as a third rome. steve, do you think there's some kind of -- is it a personal affinity or do you think i'm making too much of it? trump is very tough on foreigners and foreign countries but he's consistently been nice about putin and russia. >> i don't know what nice means. what he has not done is vilified putin. that's a sharp departure. he's what he either thinks or hope. i hope that trump has been told that the relationship between the united states and russia today is exceedinglydangerous, including on a nuclear level. he's been told that a new
datante is necessary and it's in the republican tradition of eisenhower, nixon and reagan and that he trump, for the sake of american national security, should move in that direction. if that's the case, i don't know trump or anyone around him. my response would be simple. it's imperative for the sake of american national security. it's possible to do but it's going to be exceedingly hard politically, primarily in the united states but also in moscow. >> and, you have to look at what russia's been saying as all of this has been happening. russia sent clear signals that you're not going to get anything for lifting sanctions against us. putin's spokesman said now impose the sanctions, we're not going to bargain with you. you're not going to get anything from us. he said again yesterday that
symmetrical reduction in nuclear arms is not possible and unacceptable. they have repeatedly signalled they're not going to bargain. all will have to be unilateral from trump's side. putin isn't going to meet with trump for another couple of months. he's already playing the senior partner and it's unclear. it's very dangerous to have an adversarial relationship with russia. what kind of deal are you going to make? what is the u.s. going to get out of it? >> steve, you talk about the importance of detante. i think everyone wants better relations. >> i don't agree. i don't think everyone. >> do you think it's a serious issue or do you dispute the facts that almost many, many
intelligence agencies and many independent observers believe that russia has interfered with elections in hungary, poland and the united states. it's using soft power, asymmetrical warfare in a way, do you believe it's true and how should they respond? >> let me focus on the acqbasic cuizatio -- accusations. when various networks go on the air, newspapers say trump is an agent of the kremlin.
imagine john kennedy in 1962 trying to negotiate our way out of a nuclear crisis. etch d each day kennedy was called a puppet of the crekremlin, we do want a situation like that. until they produce some facts, i don't think they should be discussing it. >> the issue is not trump. it's putin. >> people aren't going on the air and sticking their finger in the wind and saying we think he's an agent of putin. they're relying on intelligence assessments. >> oh, please. let's talk about intelligence. >> i want to be clear. i don't and this network has never reported, even reported on the contents of that dossier. only that the intelligence community briefed trump about it which is a fact. nobody has disputed.
what i'm talking about is putin and russia's very successful cyber warfare. i'm wonder should western countries do something? >> are you talking about the hacking of the dnc? >> yes. >> in his last press conference, president obama said we don't know how the material got to wikileaks, which is part of the -- he said we don't know. we've withbeen told by the cia, did know. he didn't use the word hack. he used the word leak. >> it's two separate things. first it has to be hack and somebody has to take it and leak it. is this part of a pattern? this is not an isolated case. >> this is a strategy they have been working on for a long time going back to 2007 when the internet in astonia was subject to attack from russian servers
because they took down a monument to soviet soldiers. it was developed across the kind of so called mirror broad. the former soviet universe. it's slowly become more and more sophisticated. what's striking to me, four or five years ago i'm not sure that the russian government, that the kremlin knew what the dnc was. they have slowly developed these strategies in ukraine, in eastern europe and western europe and it's finally crossed the ocean to the u.s. what is interesting is this happened 25 years after the collapse of soviet union when the global agreement was liberal democracy was the most moral, deliberate way to rule populations. putin seemed to have reversed that and said no system of government is better than any other. we're no worse than you are.
we're going to infiltrate your systems and get the outcome we want. >> accuses us of interfering. >> not incorrectly. >> your dissent is registered. thank you very much. next on gps, the other major power with which donald trump has complicated relations. china. will it be good or bad for america to start a trade war? with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,
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what will happen to u.s. high pressu -china relations in the wake of rhetoric, threats? steve, let me ask you, the conventional wisdom is that the one china policy which is, to put it simply is we're going to punt on the issue of whether taiwan is a separate country. we're going to agree that both sides think they agree they are part of one country. we won't say whether taiwan is right or mainland china. that has preserved peace and stability and let taiwan flourish and it's become a rich
democracy. china has flourished and we've had no trouble. that's the way to go. trump phone call unsettles that. you disagree. explain that. >> i don't think one china is an american policy. if you travel around the country and talking to people the words one china don't tell you what our policy is about. the nature of china is more important than the number of chinas to most americans. not everyone agree it's gone well. it's gone for people that take notes in diplomatic meetings but we had a missile crisis in the middle of the 1990s. we had aggressive trade policies where the china had more of an advantage than the united states has. taiwan is the last geography that has a liberal democracy but isolated.
we have a policy defined 40, 50 years ago, it's the only part of the planet where america doesn't step back and recalibrate. i'm hopeful that we're going to have a rethinking and maybe a rebranding of what we do. i think we found we have a new leader of the united states that's not going to be told which words to use. taiwan is this flourishing democracy. isn't it weird we're not supposed to talk to them? >> i don't think we're not supposed to talk to them. i think it's fair we take a look at all our policies with regard to china and taiwan and think through what's worked and what hasn't worked. i don't think tweeting out diplomacy is the way to go and not tweeting out the potential to change one of our governing principles. president trump needs to take a
step back and remembering that negotiating with china is not checkers but chess. it's like a three level game of chess where we have to deal with them on global affairs, regional affairs and bilaterally. before we start saying let's revisit this and perhaps we will trade out taiwan as a commodity for a better deal for why that which will be a bad thing to do or on the other hand we're going to help taiwan declare its independence which not at all clear that's what taiwan wants us to do for them. let's remember we have broad sweep of issues we have to work with china on and develop a strategy and not just a set of inflammatory tweets. >> one of the things animating a lot of people in the united states ever since henry kissinger, is the idea you want to integrate clhina into the
systems slowly. there's this fear that what you'll have with the rise of china is when we had the rise germany or the rise of japan. a great clash between the established power of the united states and the rise in power. do you worry about that or do you feel like it's over done and we should push them and come what may? >> i think we have to look at all possibilities and be concerned, but at the same time we're not the only party with a vote in this. this is a little bit about the discussion about terrorism, there's another party that may have already declared some forms of war with the united states. when you talk about information, cyber, trade and things like that, there's been a fairly aggressive approach by china in recent years that's done very well for their national interests. what i've heard from now president trump is that well, after all these years when we're looking at intergrating clgrati
integrated. that's the simplification of the situation but it resonates with a lot of american experience. >> i have to say when you look at trade policy, i'm pretty sympathetic to the idea that the chinese, i don't know if cheated is the right word but they seem to have been able to take advantage of the stability to be highly non-open as an economy and benefit from all the openness of the western world and the wto. >> no doubt. the fact that president trump has suggested this is an area he wants to tackle right up front is a good thing. what does that mean? does it mean we want to be le leviilevhlee veeing a 45% import on companies. i don't think so. it's not only going to hurt chinese companies but american
companies. it's going to hurt american consumers. let's stop and take this piece by piece. i think there are things we can do. for example, in the investment realm, we should be talking more about reciprocity. your sectors in entertainment and culture and electricity and mining or financial services are quite closed to u.s. investment. maybe it's time we close our sectors as well. >> this is an area where trump has changed the conversation where he might get bipartisan agreement. thanks to my guests. that's all for this special post-inaugural edition of gps. thanks for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. remember when you said men are supeyeah...ivers? yeah, then how'd i get this... ...allstate safe driving bonus check?
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i'm brian stelter. this is our weekly look of the story behind the story. we're live in washington, d.c. on the second full day of the donald trump presidency. for months now we've been wondering what covering a trump white house might be like. now, i think we're wondering something else. is this what every day going to be like? this is what i mean. here is the president furious at you know who. >> as you know i have a running war with the media. they are among the most dishonest human b