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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  January 24, 2017 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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absolutely scottsdale. five days into his presidency, donald trump is changing the subject tonight. this is "cnn tonight." has learned will sign executive action tomorrow on building a border wall with mexico as revives false crimes that millions of illegal voters swung the popular vote to hillary clinton. will this do damage to his presidency? and shocking prediction, 43,000 americans per year could die without obamacare, talk to doctors who say the danger is real. first jeff zeleny. thanks for joining us from
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washington. hearing that trump is expected to announce executive orders on immigration restrictions and the wall. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: president trump is traveling to department of homeland security to sign a few orders. all pertain to immigration. talking about the wall and tomorrow put pen to paper signing order directing them to build that wall. of course he has talked about that. under way in congress. unclear exactly why an order needs to be signed but symbolic big moment as he a tries to change the subject as you said and keeps going through the week aktdivities. meeting with auto manufacturers, others throughout the week that fit the big priorities. tomorrow immigration and also later in the week continuing to roll out immigration proposals
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including refugees, targeting some countries, syria and others, that are terror-prone and going to roll back and change the u.s. refugee policy. that will come after the wall tomorrow. when he goes to homeland security department. >> been wanting to discuss this with you, saw it earlier live. at briefing and you challenged white house spokesperson sean spicer on president's claim of voter fraud. fill us in. >> president trump talked about the fact that he still believes there are three to five million people who voted illegally and kept him from winning the popular vote. made that claim on monday evening at white house in meeting with congressional leaders. sean spicer, white house press secretary was asked if the white house believes that. he said the president believes that. i asked sean spicer if he belie believes it, he was a chief
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adviser for the republican national committee and priebus was chairman of the republican party. trying to get to the sense if they believe it. he wouldn't answer but reason it matters, across the country republicans have said we don't think there's widespread voter fraud. why is president trump talking about this? still has questions about his legitimacy and believes others are questioning it and trying to make point that popular vote not on his side for this reason but it matters because it's fundamental part of democracy. if that many people cast votes illegally, shouldn't they investigate it? haven't decided it but president still talking about it when aides would frankly rather he talk about anything else including his agenda like
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tomorrow at department of homeland security. >> bring in tim o'brien and glenda blair and roger martin. mr. martin says the attacks on president trump reinforce his strategy. lots to discuss. glenda you spent a lot of time with the president, you say this obsession of crowd sizes and vote totals goes beyond running for president. explain that. >> he has to win, he has to be seen as absolutely top winner, alpha dog. and i think that he can't really take in the idea of anything that challenges that. or if any notion of his being anything less than the complete winner in the whole situation. i think there is also a deep feeling about whether he is
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legitimate here. he was raised as rich kid and think there's like -- from early on some sense of do other -- were other kids hanging out with him doing it because he was a rich kid? he has to always not just win but absolutely trounce the opposition, other side, competition. in a situation where he's three million votes short, there has to be an explanation for him of why it is. has to be that someone did something wrong because there's no other way to look at it than he won in his mind. >> deep-seated fear of not being seen as ledge mate president? >> i would say fear of not being seen. motivating force in his life is getting attention. it's been true throughout the political campaign that led to his election. he's very adept at figuring out buzz words and statements that
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he can use and will experiment with messages to stay in the public eye. in the 1980s, japan was about to take over the united states, 2017, china. 2012, obama and birtherism. 2017, the wall. he'll say what he needs to say to get attention. it's the first thing that motivates most of what he does. >> rather than allegedly calling journalists and writers to put himself -- posing as his own pr person, twitter became outlet to make accusations and get in the news and create -- >> and create false narratives. >> you say when trump makes false allegations we expect it but more disturbing when sean spicer has to say it and defend it. explain that? >> accusations of trump focusing
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on him being politically incorrect. powered a lot of his kpachblt he realized he couldn't enter a crowded field of 18 republican candidates and win in that category and leveraged behavioral science understanding, he had to create a new category to have a chance. that was politically incorrect politician. every time the media and others attacked him for being politically incorrect, they were reinforcing his core positioning with his audience. and that continues to this day. and it reinforces what positioning he chose to take. >> yeah. gwenda, trump didn't make the most recent claim in public as he has in the past, said in
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private meeting with top congressional leaders. does that tell you anything? >> i think what matters is that he told his press spokesman this was the line of the day. and i think that yeah, he does what the other two people were saying, just said, he's all about wanting attention. and think he's all about performing. and to be a performer, you have to do something unexpected and do something -- say something outrageous, do something people aren't going to expect, so people keep paying attention. he did it throughout the campaign and he was the politically incorrect candidate because he kept saying something people weren't going to expect. get outraged, have to watch the next day and stay tuned in. doing that now. keeps trying to defend the idea that he won, couldn't countenance idea he didn't, has
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to say he won and look for why it happened and come up with explanation that doesn't make sense to anybody but that's the explanation he's sticking to. he never backs down as we've noticed. >> timothy brought up i thought a good point about creating false narratives. should we be surprised if he doesn't believe in these conspiracy theories, rather than false shock, i can't believe he said that or believes this, he perpetuated one of the biggest conspiracy theories in recent history for five or six years that the president wasn't born in the united states and didn't have a legitimate birth certificate. >> and should be revolution in the streets. >> we should be not surprised if he really believes in this. >> i don't think it's issue of what he believes in. he's focused on oeng the narrative. say what he needs to to keep
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critics off balance or win over whoever is in front of me at the moment. >> man behind the curtain. >> and you're all reinforcing it. he probably smiling. >> calling it incorrect is probably different than -- he was predatory with women, didn't disavow the klan. not necessarily just politically incorrect but saying what does he value, what does the country value and what values putting to the test in this election? putting that under umbrella of political correctness is homogenizing it in a way that's actually pointless. >> roger? >> i mean keep it -- keep it up. it is flabbergasting to me to
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watch the opponents of trump. i'm just sitting back. sort of bystander to this to watch the opponents simply not getting or understanding the strategy and not understanding how they're contributing to the success of it. and have contributed to it. so if you want, keep on doing it. >> it's not a strategy, it's ideology. >> it could be that too tim. i wouldn't -- i would not argue about its merits. all i'm making is argument about its effectiveness. it was only strategy that could have gotten him elected and he was aided and abetted entire time by primarily the media who reinforced morning, noon and night his core message which is, rightly or wrongly, clear as a
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bell, political correctness gotten us into the mess we're in now. i was politically incorrect businessperson and made me successful and going to be politically incorrect politician and you're going to get him -- not making argument. >> he promised to bring back people's jobs, that's what got him elected above everything else and why supporters dismissed everything shocking to other people. he stayed on message to his credit but about jobs. >> also -- >> that's what you think but lots of people have said going to bring back jobs. that is not the distinctive thing. >> and many supporters would say people ignored facts as well and that's more important than perception. >> absolutely. he's the master of distraction,
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disruption, changing the subject. when anything gets uncomfortable, of just sailing past with another unexpected -- whether you call it politically correct -- but something people don't expect, gets everybody all upset and make them react to him so he continues to be the main topic. did it throughout the campaign and he's doing it now. he has a whole government, cabinet appointees, in charge of everything and continues to distract us, pull our attention away from the hearings on capitol hill, various things going forward. he's still fuming supposedly about the three million votes that hillary got and saying it was illegal aliens and taking us down a rabbit hole of having to respond to that. it's not the important question. >> but wouldn't they put three
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million people in places where the votes actually counted? doesn't make sense. coming back, president trump promised to repeal and replace the affordable care act. talk to two doctors. you do all this research on a perfect car, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company
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the president has already taken the first steps to repeal and replace obamacare. one of the biggest campaign promises but next guest says could put tens of thousands of
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americans in danger. cofounders of physicians for a national health program. good evening doctors. thank you so much. grateful to have you on. you both have more than 30 years of experience studying death rates relating to changes in health care and concluded that repealing obamacare could result in this many deaths a year. how did you come to that conclusion? >> there are a bunch of studies that look at what happens when people lose insurance, pretty consistent that lot of people die losing insurance and biggest of the studies show for every million people who lose coverage, about 455 will die in the next year. multiplying out by the number expected to lose coverage in the affordable care act is repealed
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about 43, 44,000, may be off by a few thousand but tens of thousands likely to die if they lose coverage and repealing it will lose millions of people coverage. congressional budget office been clear about that. >> explain the correlation between the loss of health care and so many deaths. how would this happen? >> people need medical care, preventive care, treatment when pregnant, of high blood pressure. these things save lives. variety of studies show when people lose their insurance they die. some studies show as many as two people per thousand for every thousand who lose insurance. that adds up to a lot of people. and we're pretty sure under whatever the republicans do, going to repeal obamacare, we
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know that. about 20 million people will lose coverage and millions left uninsured and will be thousands of unnecessary deaths every single year as result. >> and as example, people uninsured, when have heart attacks delay going to emergency room, that causes zra extra dejz. that's one important reason but many others as well. >> but do they have a point, meaning the gop and president when they say there are things wrong with obamacare that need to be fixed. say going to replace with something fantastic or better. >> okay. well plenty of things are wrong with obamacare, including 26 million people who have no insurance despite obamacare, including the facts that copayments and deductibles way too high.
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can't afford. that's what is wrong. ought to be moving forward to single pair system but going to move backwards. >> what are your thoughts on reforms proposed by the trump administration to take the place of obamacare? >> well, all we know from president trump is he's going to give us something great. but if we look at details laid out by paul ryan for instance in his blueprint for health, tom price, the new appointee for the secretary of health and human services, saying block grant medicaid and cut it back as muches a third, voucherize medicare, instead of seniors guaranteed benefits, get a
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voucher to go on the market to see what they can buy. talking about insurance companies cut back on the range of services they insure and still call it insurance. increase copayments and deductibles, make access to health care much worse and going to see people getting sicker and dying younger as result. to me as a doctor -- >> go on. >> we're physicians. me as doctor, that's simply unacceptable. many doctors have joined together in physicians for a national health program say let's move forward to single payer. >> i've spoken to number of doctors who don't feel the same way about obamacare. there are differences in opinion on this in the medical community. >> sure there are differences
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but actually majority of doctors, if you ask according to surveys, actually want to move forward to national health insurance. very few really want to go back to the pre-affordable care act, prooe-obama care when even more people were uninsured. even the ama and i have disagreement s with them. their bottom line is want everybody covered. most doctors agree on that. >> thank you so much. appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> our pleasure. >> coming back, president trump's latest 2003 war. why the administration is coming down hard on the national parks. it's a supercomputer. with this grade of protection... it's a fortress. and with this standard of luxury... it's an oasis. the 2017 e-class.
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only xfinity gives you more to stream to any screen. download the xfinity tv app today. president's nominee for budget chief found himself in the hot seat today over the size of the inaugural crowd. interesting move. discuss with maria cardona- director of black outreach for president george w. bush and
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andre bower. start with you paris. at the confirmation hearing for nick mulvaney, the issue of inauguration crowd size came up. >> which crowd is larger, 2009 or 2017 crowd? >> senator if you allow me it give the disclaimer, not sure how it ties to the onb. from that picture appears that on the left-hand side is bigger than the right-hand. >> sneaky move. question when they spin like that, is the administration -- is he undermining his own nominees, forcing them to respond to what is obvious? >> i don't think the president is forcing his nominees for the cabinet to do anything, it's senators playing politics with the confirmation hearings asking
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silly questions. if they want to be serious about the confirmation hearings and nominees ask serious questions, probative questions and about roles and what the public expect. not crowd sizes. >> maria is it playing politics? >> kind of a brilliant move. i love how paris says it's senators that should be taking this seriously, the freaking president of the united states should be taking this seriously and he's the one focusing on crowd size and three to five million illegal voters, insidious lies that undercut not just his own credibility but credibility of his administration and nominees. at end of the day, why this is so pernicious and any of areaious, credibility of the us around the world.
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i was glad senator pointed out ridiculous nature of what this president is making a priority as opposed to the issues facing this country. >> let's talk about this, how many freedom people and agencies have to get out message. after the national park service tweeted crowd size, president apparently enraged. and stopped tweeting. amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere higher than any time in the last 50,000 years. deleted. is the president going to spend his time quelling all dissent in is. >> donald trump is not a big fan when things he thinks should be in his control are not. when it comes to federal government, political appointees will serve at pleasure of the president, folks whose job is to
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carry out his goals and vision. job not to lie or tell the public untrue things. especially career folks which in the case of the badlands park, talking about someone who is not a political appointee, a career civil servant. job is execute what they're supposed to do, running twitter or managing a project, regardless of who the president. is i hope this administration ensures that people feel they can rely on federal government for accurate information, whether it's unemployment rates, census, something that will come up during the time we have this president, lots of things we rely on the government for for accurate information and data. i hope this administration will not do anything to further undermine that trust. >> mentioned unemployment numbers, asked how going to calculate it and not a good
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answer from sean spicer. just tell the viewers that. do you see this as censorship kristin? >> do i see asking agency to take down a tweet -- i think it's bizarre. early on in the obama administration in 2009, when you still have agencies where you don't have a lot of people in place, there's always this tension between the white house being heavy handed. don't love the idea of making this organization take down a tweet. censorship is strong term. wouldn't use at this stage but talk to me again in a kuchl weeks. if it becomes a pattern, more troubling. >> you know we will. says vladimir putin would be proud in response to the tweet deleted. are they wrong? >> this is more inside the beltway bs. people watching the show don't care. what is more important is donald trump meets with some of the
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biggest ceos in the world, then with the union bosses. day two doing things that change people's lives. opportunity to create new jobs, keep them in this country. all this side stuff, i know the media is fixated on it and call out donald trump saying he's bad guy. what about the senators -- >> i agree with you, spoke about nick mulvaney but not hear to report on things people want to hear but give them the truth. i think they care about -- >> when donald trump was pulling noubs -- >> the election is over. hillary clinton is not even a prospect now. no one is thinking about her. you keep going to that. this is donald trump's america. he is the president of the united states. >> they didn't want to report on the rally sizes then but talk
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about -- >> doing the same thing. going back to the election. president has won. >> just like the president. >> and we're asking about. >> showing you how the media operates. >> now you're a media expert? >> no just. >> if donald trump. >> didn't want to talk about it. now it does. >> if donald trump wasn't so focused on the obsessed with size of the crowd and people who didn't vote for him, then this would not -- >> why bring it up today. >> made it on issue. >> default of anytime someone doesn't want to talk about something factual, or not true, this is how the media spin it's. no one is spinning anything. putting out a tweet about factual information, how is that
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spinning? why shouldn't the american people know that information. why not care about it? if not, why not inform them about it? >> i think we should. jumping from crowd size. >> you jumped to crowd size. i said nothing about it. >> i think andre's point is valid when it comes to day two. >> he can defend himself. hold on. >> i wasn't trying to defend -- >> andre was speaking. go ahead. >> i don't mind carbon emissions. i don't know who called them out. might not have been -- don't know how high that went. maybe the numbers were wrong. maybe that's why pulled it down. i don't have any information to know why it was pulled. may have been a viable reason. may not have been to fr the topup, don't want the message out there. >> i appreciate you answering the question. we'll be right back.
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lift up your head and keep moving or let the paranoia haunt you? everybody lack confidence, everybody lack confidence i keep my fee-fi-fo-fum i keep my heart undone
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the strong in me, i still smile. how should we listen to and interpret the news president for the next four years when he
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often contradicts himself. john mcwhorter is here to help us with that. professor of linguistics. are you trump whisperer? >> i would try it out. >> so untruths, falsehoods, lies. last night repeated lie this millions of illegal voters cast bat ols that cost him the vote. that's proven false. >> president believes that. he's stated that before, i think he stated concerns of voter fraud and people voting illegally in the campaign and continues to believe that based on evidence and studies presented to him. >> he's spreading facts that are proven false. so confusing. white house spokesperson backs him up.
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should we abide by the dictionary definition, it's tough to call the president of the united states a liar. >> we have to get used to new way of interpreting the commander in chief. for the reason he's saying what he wants to believe. perfectly human. but he's president and wants to be taken seriously. certainly not doing what 11 or 12-year-old would do but oddly enough gotten to point where we elected a man who will say the way he wants it to be. idea that you can't prove it genuinely doesn't make sense to him because yes i think it's safe to say narcissistic or self-centered streak. to listen to donald trump we have to get past the idea he's ordinary politician who knows that anything he says is a kind
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of semiphore, staged. speaking a message people are supposed to interpret. he has no reason to have learned to do that. what he does is talk. you have to listen to make sense of him. not like him. listen as if he were -- not as rhetoric. 12. all of it makes perfect sense. >> really? >> sean spicer saying the president believes what he believes is artful way of saying listen to him as if he were adolescent or preadolescent person. there are adult things about donald trump but not in how he speaks to the public and united states. he doesn't know how to do anything else, how would he? >> you don't mean as insult. you're linguistics professor. >> he talks how people talk rather than speak. there's a huge difference. casual speech is messy and
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subjective, has a rather odd relationship to the truth. and then speech or writing wru get to back check, where you get to make it into something crafted. >> that's the focus of your piece. how to listen to donald trump for years. issue is talking versus speaking, more crucial distinction. someone as linguistically unpolished -- you broke down the difference. not used to someone holding highest office in the land not being as dwhash is the word? >> articulate, controlled, monitored. he wouldn't know. truth is, it's an american story. we're not a formal people. we've got to let it all hang out. all about being real. over the past 40 or 50 years
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old-fashioned oratory gotten smaller. george w. bush part it of but looked embarrassed he was inarticulate. and sarah palin had a swivel tongued way of speaking. you knew somebody else would come along who couldn't rub the words together. going to be others. listen to this man, forget ad lie stevenson, jimmy carter and speechcraft of george w. bush at times. >> you point to moments looic this. >> look, having nuclear -- uncle was engineer at mit. very good genes okay? wharton school of finance. very good, very smart. if you're a conservative republican -- if i were a liberal -- like, okay.
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>> what did he say? >> i love that one. all he's doing is giving his scatter shot thoughts about what people think of him like a 12-year-old, how conservative if he is one, get into some trouble and popping along. funny thing is man doesn't drink. it's not intoxication. he's doing what anybody does on a bar stool. you and i have both probably spoken that way off the cuff. >> that's part of the appeal for people who voted for him. >> yeah. i mean frankly he's real. speaking to me. if he says i'm going to bring the factories back, because he doesn't end sentences, disinclined to use subordinate clauses sounds real like the food we like and the sex we like. doesn't sound presidential. remember how mitt romney looked
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presidential and square head and goshes and expensive haircut and utter lack of any ethnicity. would have been a plus 30 years ago but couldn't win because he didn't let anything hang out. >> talk a little bit more about language. one of his advisers, kellyanne conway, came up with the term alternative facts. that's why -- what does that say -- now that's part of the l lexicon right? alternative fact as linguistics professi professor. >> horizons are narrower younger or less polished. just today 5-year-old daughter was telling mejerseycityisa state. that's what she thinks, fact to her. i didn't have time to correct it. donald trump knows jersey city not a state but lots of things
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rattling in there that are facts to him. and we've chosen him. >> said the press takes him literally but not seriously, folks tame him seriously but not literally. that's his speaking tone as well. >> he's self-centered for one thing and he bss, just shoots the you know what. >> and you can see that just from the language and way he speaks? >> ever since this began i've often thought he talks like someone speaks a language that's never been committed to writing. talks the way everybody talks after dinner at thanksgiving except he's supposed to be making interesting speech at rally. using good old fashioned budweiser spoken lang wj. huh we get along in our lives
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but doesn't feel the need to do something different when cameras are on or people are looking to him for coherence or extended thauchlt he's never had to do that. in his times, such that he never had to learn it. i doubt he thinks about it consciously. sorry if that sounds condescending but got away with it because never needed it. thank you. we'll be right back. with class-leading horsepower. , he's happy.t's with him? your family's finally eating vegetables thanks to our birds eye voila skillet meals. and they only take 15 minutes to make. ahh! birds eye voila so veggie good
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back now with my panel to discuss, thank you guys for sticking around. paris what did you think of what john mcwhorter had to say? >> i thought it was horrible, disrespectful and i'm glad i graduated from pepperdine, it was partisan talk and something that i've never heard before and i wish i hadn't heard it. it's impressive that he took that monologue and only pointed out republican presidents that had -- or candidates who had issues with their linguistic skills. if you want to bring your opinion to the forefront of the american people do so and present it from both sides and not seem like vicious partisan hack. mr. trump, president of the
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united states has artfully and specifically articulated his message clearly to the american people, that's why he won and appealed to people who don't go to columbia but community college, who may not have gone to college. had a simple message they were able to understand, that is why he won and going to be effective communicator we've never seen before. disagree with everything he had to say. >> john mcwhorter said the president says what he believes but didn't make what he believes the fact. down agree with that? >> i don't. this is a different kind of president. he understands people. and he's going to be nontraditional. get ready to expect that. equate to sunday sermon more than sundance film. not going to be formal. talks to the people and not over the people. that's why he related so well,
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when everybody thought trump was crazy in 16-way primary, he was nailing it, hit a nerve and won in a big field because he was able to connect, do something that nobody else was able to do it. media and elitists may say totally off base, what i called johnny lunch buckets in the street, hard working people out there every day are fed up and glad somebody is connecting what what they understand. >> what he said paris is joe budweiser, similar to what andre said. >> talked about 12-year-old. >> said appeals to the budweiser, working american. are you concerned naits president of the united states can just make something up, claim it's fact and get around it with language of alternative fact? this is honest question. where do you draw the line with
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that? >> i think the president is entitled to give his opinion about things. i think the president is allowed to have his own viewpoint about certain issues and entitled to defend himself against things he feels are inaccurate about his personal story, record and candidacy and what he's trying to do for the american people. i will draw the line when the president maliciously stands before the american people and lies to them with the intent of doing harm or causing harm for other people or the administration. i don't think he's done that. i don't think that sean spicer has done that. and i believer that the american people understand that. >> okay. kristin, is that where you draw the line? didn't stand before the american people but said 3.5 million people voted illegally, astonishing claim and there's no proof to that. in fact it's been disproven. >> it's astonishing claim. there's no evident to support
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it. i don't like the idea of public officials standing up to make assertions where there's no evidence to assert it. i think it's important to be consistent. i would have criticized the obama administration for standing up to say the attack on benghazi was because of a video when it wasn't. shouldn't be saying untrue things and right now shouldn't be saying five million votes cast illegally when there's no evidence. but idea of who gets to be arbiter of what is and is not true, there's a reason why so many people are willing when donald trump says something not quite in line with the truth, willing to believe it because don't trust what they hear from the media, sometimes it's little things that are sloppy, bad story alleges that rick perry doesn't understand the job he's taking on and it's thinly
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sourced story and clearly says he understood it or donald trump doesn't have bust of mlk anymore but he does and reporter didn't say it. >> i'm out of time. i agree with you. not that -- they apologize and admit it's wrong and that's never happened with the administration. so thank you all. i'm over time. that's it for us tonight. thanks for watching. see you back here tomorrow. 1930's cop,
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i want that role now. when i crave a turkey sandwich, i want to eat it now. [woman] john, i got your sandwich. [john] when my neck itches, i want to scratch it now. so when the irs owes me money, guess when i want it? [woman] now. [john] you are good. [vo] instead of waiting for your tax refund, you can get a refund advance of up to $1250 no interest at block. [john] don't just get your taxes done. get your taxes won.
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