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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  January 24, 2017 9:00pm-10:01pm PST

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good evening. thanks for joining us. the president believes what he believes. that's what sean spicer, the white house press secretary said about the president's claim millions of illegally documented immigrants voted illegally for hillary clinton. let's be clear before we go further. there is no evidence that happened. if it did, it would be an great voter fraud of our times and extraordinary fraud. if it happened you would think there would be calls for a congressional investigation and justice department hearings. if the president really believed it happens you would think he himself would be calling for those investigations. now, either the president believes something for which there is no evidence and is false or he doesn't really believe it and is just using this as an excuse to explain why he did not win the popular vote. either way, the president is spreading a falsehood and is the subject of our "keeping them honest" segment tonight.
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jeff zeleny begins it. >> reporter: the white house is standing by president donald trump's unsubstantiated claim that millions voted illegally in the november election. >> the president believes that, he has stated that before. i think he stated his concern of voter fraud and people voting illegally during the campaign. he continues to maintain that belief based on studies and evidence that people have presented to him. >> reporter: press secretary sean spicer doubling down on the president's claim. but repeatedly unable to point to evidence that backs up the charge that has been debunked by republicans and democrats alike. >> you said the president believes there was voter fraud. i wonder if you believe that. you were with the republican national committee at the time and reince priebus was the chairman of the rnc at the time. do you believe there was widespread voter fraud? >> my job is not -- >> how can he be comfortable with his win if he believes -- >> he's very comfortable with his win. no he's very comfortable with his win. it's an electoral based system. he got 306 votes.
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33 of 50 states voted for him. i've asked and answered this question twice. he believes what he believes based on information provided. >> what about democracy, though, sean? >> next. >> what does that mean for democracy? >> it means i've answered your question. >> have you? >> reporter: the allegations of voter fraud which trump repeatedly made before taking office surfaced again after the president repeated that claim monday night while meeting with congressional leaders at the white house. >> i think he won handily. he's very comfortable with his win. >> reporter: but he doesn't sound like it. he won the electoral college but lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million. he charged that three to five million people voted illegally, a claim as unsubstantiated as when he first made it after the election. but now carries the weight of the presidency. republican senator lindsey graham says if trump believes it he should disclose his proof and ask for an investigation telling manu raju such allegations erode the president's credibility. >> so i would urge the president to knock this off. this is the greatest democracy on earth. you're the leader of the free
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world and people are going to start doubting you as a person. >> reporter: from the white house podium, spicer left open the door to launching an investigation. but repeatedly brushed aside questions from reporters. >> there is no investigation. it's -- i said it was possible. anything is possible. it was a hypothetical question. my point to you is that to ask us on day two, he made a comment last night on something he's believed and said for a long, long time. >> reporter: gets to work laying out agenda, trump is still on a quest to prove his legitimacy. it came on the fourth full day of his presidency overshadowing his executive actions to revive the keystone pipeline and clear the way for the dakota access pipeline, two more reversals of the obama administration. the president said today he is closing in on his first supreme court nomination to replace the yearlong vacancy of antonin scalia. >> we will pick a truly great supreme court justice. >> jeff zeleny joins us now.
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sean spicer did not answer your question about whether sean spicer actually believed what the president is saying given he was working at the rnc and would know about i would think about that kind of concern. didn't the president's open attorneys rule this out already, that there was this massive fraud? didn't they say there was no evidence of fraud? >> indeed they did. if you'll remember back to that lawsuit about the potential recount of votes in michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania, in the michigan case specifically, the trump lawyers argued this in the court papers saying all available evidence suggests the 2016 election was not tainted by fraud or mistake. that was in the court filings. so if you ask republicans privately, they do not believe this. they believe that he won the electoral college. the question is why does the president believe this? and if it matters or not. now, at the white house tonight they are trying to move beyond this, change the subject a it goes into the second day here, but until the president says it himself, anderson, i'm not sure this will go away. >> jeff zeleny, thanks very much.
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president's claim when word got out last night overshadowed the other headlines. the same can be said about sean spicer's defense of it today. it dominated today's press conference. because it contains a number of shaky assertions and mud gi arguments, we thought it was worth playing a longer portion. >> does the president believe millions voted illegally in this election? and what evidence do you have of widespread voter fraud in this election if that's the case? >> the president does believe that. he has stated that before. he stated his concerns of voter fraud and people voting illegally during the campaign and continues to maintain that belief based on studies and evidence people have presented to him. >> why not say he will definitively investigate if he believes and administration position is there was massive voter fraud? >> first of all, the comment he made was he said 3 million to 5 million people could have voted illegally. based on the studies he's seen. >> 3 million to 5 million people voted illegally, that is a scandal of astronomical proportions.
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does anyone ever restore -- doesn't he want to restore american's faith in their ballot system? wouldn't he want an investigation? >> as i've noted, he's believed this for a long time. >> why not investigate something that -- >> maybe we will. >> i want to be clear about this investigation because it seems like he's opened the door. have you discussed with the president -- >> which investigation are you referring to? >> possibly investigating this voter fraud -- >> i did not -- no, i did not. >> you said it's possible. >> anything's possible. >> what evidence do you have? >> as i said i think the president has believed that for a while based on studies and information he has. this isn't the first time you've heard this concern of his. >> it's not but it's worth clarifying whether illegal ballots or illegal immigrants -- >> there have been studies that came out of pew in 2008 that showed 14% of people who have voted were noncitizens. there are other studies that have been presented to him. it's a belief he maintains. >> you heard sean spicer referring to a 2008 pew research study. that, in fact, does not exist.
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pew, however, did a study four years later which the campaign cited on other occasions so we assume that's what he's referring to. we reached out to a man involved in that study, david becker, the primary author of the study. thanks for being here. just to be clear, the pew study which you authored that's been frequently cited by the trump camp for months it found that while there are millions of out of date registration records due to people dying or moving, that does exist, there was no evidence that voter fraud resulted from that. is that correct? >> right. there was no attempt to even quantify it in many ways. we were really just trying to quantify the challenges that election officials have keeping their voter lists up to date. this study came out almost five years ago now. what we've seen since then is that thanks to the work of many in this space, states and local election officials have done a much better job of using data and technology to keep their voter rolls up to date. i think the rolls for the 2016 election were probably the most
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accurate list we've ever had and they'll get better. >> so when sean spicer says the president believes there's been massive voter fraud based on studies and evidence, that's what the phrase that's been presented to him, to your knowledge, are there any studies or evidence that points to any kind of large scale voter fraud? >> i don't know of any evidence. i was at pew and ran the elections team there. i was there eight years, i was a lawyer in the justice department in the voting rights section there for seven years in the clinton and second bush administrations and studied this extensively. i don't know of any study that's found significant voter fraud. studies have found 31 cases out of a billion nationwide, virtually nonexistent. election officials across the country studied in their own states, tried to prosecute people who have allegedly committed voter fraud, found only a handful of instances. i think this says something really good about the american people. they take their elections seriously.
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i think fraud is exceedingly rare. and if you look at numbers you're more likely to get bitten by a shark who's won the powerball lottery than find someone who committed voter fraud. >> have you ever heard of a shark actually winning the power ball lottery? >> no. that would be unusual. >> that study you said i think it was -- 2016 study out of a billion voters there were 31 provable cases of fraud or attempted fraud? >> yeah. i think it was 2014, overseen by a professor at -- law professor at the university at loyola law school in los angeles. but republican and democratic election officials, people like republican secretary of state john huston in ohio who's worked really hard to make it easy to vote but hard to cheat, has looked into this study extensively and found only a handful, maybe a dozen over many election cycles in ohio when there are millions of votes being cast. >> based on what you've seen of this past election, you would say there's zero evidence of fraud at this point and
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certainly fraud on the scale that the president is talking about 3 million to 5 million illegal votes. it's impossible? >> yeah. i mean, any claim that suggests that fraud exists, it does exist more than zero. it just doesn't exist many much more than zero and any claim beyond that is false and not supported by the evidence. >> david becker, appreciate your expertise. digging deeper into how president trump's recent statements fit into a larger pattern, winston churchill famously said we will never surrender. forgotten is he uttered those words in the context of realistically and clearly explaining the allied retreat at dunkirk. president trump has no taste for surrender but he shows little appetite for the bitter truth or mildly inconvenient facts. as joe johns reports, that tendency dates back long before he got into the race. >> i will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election
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if i win. >> reporter: throughout his campaign, donald trump repeated false claims despite evidence to the contrary from talking down american democracy. >> i'm afraid the election's going to be rigged, i have to be honest. >> reporter: to questioning whether a faulty debate microphone was somehow rigged to work against him. >> i don't know if you saw that in the room but my microphone was terrible. i wonder was it set up that way on purpose. >> reporter: to widespread voter fraud. >> the only way we can lose in my opinion, i really mean this, pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. >> reporter: and even before he was a candidate -- >> "the apprentice" is a monster hit. ♪ 91, money, money >> reporter: when his tv show "the apprentice" slipped in the ratings he still proclaimed it as the number one show on television. >> anybody here knows because you're in the television business, the apresent technical
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analyst is the number one show on nbc, the ratings through the roof. >> reporter: jim dowd, the show's pr director saying trump became kind of a monster when it cams to the ratings. >> he's been a bad judge, very unfair. >> reporter: when his real estate training program, trump university, was sued, trump complained the judge was treating him unfairly because of his mexican heritage, even though the judge was born in indiana. >> i've been treated very unfairly by this judge. this judge is of mexican heritage. i'm building a wall, okay? i'm building a wall. >> reporter: and on his other businesses. >> i've had some downs but i've had friends that went out of business, you'll never see them again. i never went bankrupt. >> reporter: while he never declared bankruptcy, his companies did, four times, in fact, most notably for his atlantic city casinos. >> i had the good sense, and i've gotten a lot of credit in financial pages, seven years ago i left atlantic city before it totally cratered and made a lot of money in atlantic city and i'm very proud of it. >> reporter: joe johns, cnn, washington. >> certainly a fascinating record, very much part of the larger conversation which we'll have with the panel when we come back. i'm sure they're anxious to get started.
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and later, is the new administration cracking down on dissent by censoring tweets? we'll tell you about tweets on climate change numbers that were up and then taken down. the administration's explanation for why it asked the department responsible to stop posting. does it hold water or would a democrat today say vladimir putin would be proud? i mean wish i had time to take care of my portfolio, but..
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well, what are you doing tomorrow -10am? staff meeting. noon? eating. 3:45? uh, compliance training. 6:30? sam's baseball practice. 8:30? tai chi. yeah, so sounds relaxing. alright, 9:53? i usually make their lunches then, and i have a little vegan so wow, you are busy. wouldn't it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do? yeah. introducing essential portfolios. the automated investing solution that lets you focus on your life.
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what bad back?gels work so fast you'll ask what pulled hammy? advil liqui - gels make pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil. welcome back. lead story is president trump's claim about millions of people committing voter fraud and whether it's part of a larger pattern of not conceding anything negative or trying to spin it to something. is eternal sunshine positive thinking or swing something else? our panel joins us now. jeffrey lord, van jones. ed rollins. runs a pro trump superpac. ryan, making claims about widespread voter fraud is
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different than making unsubstantiated claims about the size of inaugural turnout. >> i think so. 5 million people would be about 4% of the people that voted in the 2016 election. so that would be the most massive voter fraud in the history of modern democracies. it would call into question trump's election. he only won by 80,000 votes in three states in the midwest. so if 4% were fraudulent, there's a decent chance by trump's math, you'd want so 4% by trump's math you'd want to investigate. >> none of this is true. >> congressional election, senate elections, there would be a massive investigation. >> our adversaries around the world, when they make the case against united states, they say democracy in the united states is not real democracy. you shouldn't be supporting -- other countries where we support democracy, you shouldn't be supporting this. this is playing into the hands. this is not just domestic implications and sowing, you know, doubts about democracy in
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around the world our country is held up as an example of the greatest democracy in history. this is playing into our adversaries who make the opposite case. so it's to me completely mystifying why the president of the united states thinks there's any advantage in spreading this false information. >> you've covered the trump campaign very closely. it is a lot of what we heard during the trump campaign and now it's happening in the white house. >> i think he is incredibly plagued by the criticism that his election was somehow not legitimate and you've heard this a lot. he was very bothered by what congressman lewis said about him, saying he was an illegitimate president, and that's a serious to make. with trump it's always the size of the reaction and the reaction was pretty large. i think he is has not adjusted yet, i don't know if he will, to how different it is to say something like this when
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it's also really striking to have the press secretary say this from the podium. that makes a policy. this is not just people whispering on background that the president said xyz at a meeting. ryan is right. people in other countries will look at this and there is a desire to downplay democracy and the electoral process and this does feed into that. >> ed rollins, you served in white houses. how do you see this? >> i don't feel good about it. at the end of the day, he believes this. to a certain extent, someone can explain here's why you lost to hillary. california you didn't campaign. there was no republican running statewide. you lost that state by 4.3 million votes. if you had gone there and spent $100 million, maybe you wouldn't have. how could i have lost by three
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million votes? >> he does believe it. when a president states something today, this was a guy who lived in a fantasy world. both the business and wrestle mania. build up numbers that this is the best building. i think he believes this. that doesn't believe this and what he doesn't understand, my issue is when you step on your own story. the critical thing about running
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a white house. it's always a battle every day. is he going to set the national agenda. is the congress going to set the national agenda. while we are sitting here talking about it. not the pipeline. today whether you agree with the policies or not, he had a great story to tell. there were things being done. >> you are going to delight with the fact that you are getting me in trouble with my former boss. let me just -- let me just say that i have no idea how many people voted illegally, but let me say in reference to articles in the "wall street journal" of 2016 and national view online and there are by my count at
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least nine examples of voter fraud by noncitizens voting. the authors of this, and the former justice department official and the "wall street journal" have said. they don't know. you can find nine examples. >> they made a real study of it. they found nine examples. >> there is only so much. what they are saying is they don't know how many. what i'm saying. >> there is only so much in the "wall street journal." they don't have space to focus on three million? >> anderson, they are saying the obama administration blocked efforts by states lie kansas, alabama and georgia to verify the citizenship. they wrote the study that the white house claims to be basing
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things on who said i understand. people out here with a different story. i am saying senator graham and senator mccain should get off their butts and investigate it and find out. >> why isn't the president calling for an investigation. >> i think he should. >> i think jure genius is worthy of a greater cause. yes, in a system where we have 320 million people who can vote. three to five million is bigger than some of our states. it's a massive number of people and you would have to believe the worst things possible both about the electors -- it's also i didn't even want to talk about this. as i have been trying to point out and get people to vote when they are eligible to vote is
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almost impossible. the whied that there is five million people not eligible to vote -- >> find out how many. >> trump doesn't want to apparently. it could be the case that this is the most genius thing that trump has ever done. because we are talking about this and maybe he is glad because all these wonderful things that hoe has done today are actually awful things from my point of view. he is doing terrible things. he is shoving pipelines down people's throats and gagging people. >> by the way, we are going to cover all of that. >> you just want to say. >> they did exactly what any strategist executed perfectly. with a lot of missteps along the way and he beat a very viable candidate and campaign that was
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enormous. by going this way, it diminishes what happened. >> that's -- >> get over it. >> he won't let anything go. >> i do want to come back to the white house. we have more breaking news. i understand president trump is expected to announce several executive orders dealing with visas and refugees? >> he is going to the department of homeland security tomorrow in washington. tomorrow afternoon and continue signing executive orders that he has been signing. i am told by aides at the white house this is going to be a multiday roll out of immigration type things. it seems like these will be focused on border security. they are focusing on visa and
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refugee programs. this administration are hot spots for terrorism. it's part of a ban on muslims. this is still being developed in terms of how it will be shaped. his immigration orders will be focused on immigration. >> we may not know the details on it and that's fine. at one point you talked about a ban on muslims entering the u.s. basically a ban on people that are beset by terrorism. do we know the parameters. >> we don't know what the parameters are and it's not a full-scale ban. that's on the december of 2015. that was the first order shot at this. he adjusted that. he called it extreme vetting. i'm told it is going to be a
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more limited executive order targeting companies specifically where there is terrorism. this is going to be part of a multiday roll out. what it's not going to include are the dreamers. that is something that conservatives and people who voted for them wonder why he is not overturning what they signed. in the white house briefing, sean spicer said the president is focused on people who will do this country harm. he will put off at least for now the younger immigrants here. the dreamers. tomorrow and thursday when he signs the orders, look for immigration action and the refugee actions on thursday. >> appreciate that. a national park goes rogue posting a series of tweets on climate science in the wake of blackouts ordered by the trump administration. details ahead. dale! oh, hey, rob. what's with the minivan? it's not mine. i don't -- dale, honey, is your tummy still hurting, or are you feeling better to ride in the front seat? oh! is this one of your motorcycling friends?
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more breaking news involving a national park and what it has been posting on a twitter account. this has been enforcing a social media blackout on the epa and suspending all accounts on friday. the broader concern is that they are putting a lockdown on the information it doesn't like. sean spicer was asked about blackouts at the press conference. >> they had the same kind of thing that they are banned from tweeting? >> because they had inappropriately violated their own social media policies and guidance was put out to the department to act with the rules that were set forth. >> that's some of the back story. we have the latest. i understand this is over this
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latest tweet from badlands national park? >> the latest news surrounds that national park in south dakota and the twitter account. it sent out a series of tweets that could be seen as defying president trump. one read "today the amount of carbon dioxide is higher than in the last 650,000 yea years #climate." not the kind of tweet the president might endorse. he called climate change a hoax invented by the chi nose. that tweet was up for a few hours before they were deleted. democrats came out to criticize the move. dnc secretary said in a statement that vladimir putin would be proud. this comes after the trump administration asked the department of interior to
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temporarily stop tweeting. that was after they retweeted the images that compared the crowd sizes of barack obama's inauguration to donald trump's. >> why were the tweets deleted? was it from the administration or what? >> at this point it literally is a mystery. we reached out to the park and they have not returned cnn's calls. it remains unclear. was this something that the administration said they had to do? similar to what we saw at the department of the interior. that is unknown. >> thanks very much. more to discuss. i was like how many people follow that? many more now. you are a democrat. are you concerned about this? the democrats were. >> listen, this is serious stuff. i'm glad we are going to talk about it. you are starting to see a
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pattern now. >> usually you have the political appointees and a direction that said the civil servants and people who were the b team. they will be there before and after you are gone. they don't get interfered on facts and data. we are already into the social media intern around from the white house. that's frightening and wrong. you have to let the facts speak for themselves. you don't want this stuff going on. >> the badlands national park. let me repeat this. it's a park. it doesn't tweet. people tweet. >> right. >> my point here is and we saw this with the intelligence community and i said we will see this from other bureaucracies, these civil servants, lots belong to unions which endorsed the democratic party candidates.
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wait, wait, wait. >> you are saying it's not a fact that the carbon dioxide load is greater. fact or not a fact? >> these people work for the president of the united states. whoever that might be. god forbid in the obama administration some rogue person in the administration tweeted something that was different. >> how is it -- the administration's policy is to deny the fact of science and math? are you saying that you believe, the president of the united states has a policy against facts? >> stay away from the issue. the issue is do civil servantings -- are they politicized? >> carbon in the atmosphere is not a political fact. >> the department of housing and urban development did this. what if they did this. >> i protected you when you worked for me in the white house, but in the bureaucracy,
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there is plenty of political people on both sides. they are active and care deeply about the issues and i promise you in the epa, they are more active and one of the determinidangers in the new administration, don't get captured by the natives. you know nothing. they care of you. two weeks later they come back and you can't possibly defend. you cannot possibly think it is great for the republican party or a new administration to delete tweets that only put out facts. is that saying climate change is not real? >> i think there a lot bigger issues to deal with. what i learned from the last couple of days, i never want to be a press secretary. this poor soul up there get the crap backed out of him. >> the question is do people who
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work in a badlands park, they work for the president. don't they work for the american people? >> sure, but the president whoever the president is is their boss. he runs the executive branch. they are in the executive branch. no matter who, i would defend president obama if there was a rogue conservative. >> what rogue? >> whoever it is -- >> it's a fact. let me tell you why you are wrong. you would be right if someone tweeted and said this amount of carbon is in the atmosphere and it's causing climate change to happen. this was a fact that said the amount of carbon in the atmosphere is greater than it's been. nobody is arguing that and that got deleted. we will come back and take a quick break and talk about the new executive actions president trump signed clearing the way for pipelines that his predecessor had blocked.
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breaking news in the white house. president trump is expected to sign executive actions on visas and refugee restrictions and
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started to advance a keystone and dakota access pipelines, overturning decisions made by his predecessor, president obama. here's what he said this morning. >> this is with regard to the construction of the keystone pipeline. something that's been in dispute and it's subject to a renegotiation of terms by us. we are going to renegotiate some of the terms. if they would like, we will see if we can get that pipeline built. a lot of jobs. 28,000 jobs. great construction jobs. >> we are back with the panel. ryan, this shouldn't come as a surprise. this is something that president trump talked about on the campaign trail. >> republicans have been campaigning on this for years. yes, there will be tens of thousands of jobs created in the one to two years it takes to build the pipeline. the number of permanent jobs
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would be trivial. in the dozens. i have been to the canadian company that will build it. the first great project in america under trump is a canadian project. i have been to calgary where the headquarters is. they are done from a control room in calgary. it won't create long-term jobs. the construction in the short-term it will. he made an interesting caveat subject to renegotiation. we will be interested to see if they submit the application to build the pipeline and say we need more to let you guys do that. that would be more of a victory for the united states. >> it has taken on symbolic value for all the sides on this debate. >> we had been hearing and put it in the context.
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this is about framing the beginning of his presidency on what he promised to do in the first several days. ryan is right. when you look at the numbers here, i don't know that this is going to bring the kind of boone that he is talking about. overall there is a broader issue where if he is not careful and i think he is making certain gapes this week. what he has done on trade was smart politically. if he is not careful about expectations, he is setting himself up for something of a fall. i thought it was interesting that sean spicer at the podium yesterday refused to say what the unemployment rate is. that means they can move the numbers how they want from the podium. not manipulate the statistics, but say what number they want. a lot of jobs are not coming back. this is potentially problematic.
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>> for a president who is just starting out, a two-year benefit is better than -- >> the best part of this drill is some of the big issues that obamacare repeals and replaces with the tax programs, those are all complicated and he needs the help to make that happen. they are not quick fixes. that's to say president obama did x, y, and z. i'm changing that today and he will do a series of those. i said i thought the speech that everyone thought was gloomy. he stood up and said that about the campaign trail. i'm not talking about that. i'm talking to you and these are the promises i make. the executive orders are something can do. right now is more important. >> the keystone pipeline has never been understood by either side. you are talking about temporary
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jobs and multiply to the 30 jobs permanent in canada. this is not a huge jobs creator. it's not a pipeline for oil. you have oil pipelines all over the place. it's a pipeline for something called diluted --. they will scrape the nastiest dirtiest stuff in the world off of the bottom of everything in canada, they will shove chemicals and shoot it down here. the last time we did this, we had a spill of that stuff and it ruins a city and it has not been fixed. there is no insurance for people who deal with the spills. we have never talked about the fact that there is a lot of spill for a few jobs. >> president trump and the ceos he met face-to-face. even since winning the election. they want to put america first. is trump's hands on approach good for business? we will talk it over with the trump critic robert reisch and trump supporter. e heroes --
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as you certainly know by now president trump has pledged to put america first and he's calling on american companies
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to join him including fiat, ford, chrysler. since winning the election mr. trump has met with more than two dozen business leaders. president trump is pledging incentives such as corporate tax cuts in hopes they'll keep businesses here. he's also warning of a border tax for companies to make their goods overseas. trump's tough approach letting the free market be free or is he using the bully pulpit to bully these companies? we have guests to talk about it. >> secretary rice, if it results in more jobs for u.s. workers isn't that a good thing? >> more and better jobs. i think more jobs is not the only objective. we also want higher wages. american workers have not had on balance a raise in 30 years but yes, it is a good thing.
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the real interesting question here, though, is what is the nature of the deal? republican presidents for the last three administrations have sat down with ceos and they promised and often delivered tax cuts and also regulatory relief so-called but all that results is higher profits and higher share prices and not really better jobs. not more jobs because most of these companies, in fact, every private sector company is in business to raise shareholder value and not to create more jobs. that's not the nature -- that's not the purpose of the private sector. so it'll be interesting to know what exactly is the art of this deal here. >> the other side of the coin is, is it a problem if businesses are making decisions not because of their climate or some kind of innovation but simply because they are afraid of the president? >> you do have to be careful.
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there's plenty of precedence for this. democrats of course are big fan of president kennedy who called in the head of steel industry and said, look, you've just raised prices and he pressured them and he is celebrated today for doing that. teddy roosevelt called in the heads of labor unions and business leaders to broker a solution to a coal strike i think it was in 1901 or '02. there's presidential precedent for this kind of thing. you do have to be careful about it. what's different. >> why do you say that? >> because you don't want the power of the federal government to just be willy-nilly loosed on whomever is a private citizen out there in a private company. on the other hand, we've never had a president like donald trump. he is gone directly from the private sector which he understands intimately to the presidency. so he's bringing in an approach to this that we have not seen with any other president in that
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sense, who's had that kind of experience. very fascinating to see how he does it. >> if ceos are worrying about what the president may tweet about their companies at any given time why shouldn't the president use everything in his arsenal to goad them into making decisions to favor the united states? >> that use of tweets and that kind of bullying can be very, very dangerous. it's not only anti-democratic and belligerent but it is also against the whole way our markets are organized. it's not a government by law. it is a government of law. it's a government of one person who is basically saying to individual ceos you better do what i want or else. i'm going to intimidate you. the other point that's interesting here is that donald trump did not invite in nissan and toyota and volkswagen. these are giant automakers in the united states. they are employing huge number of american auto workers. the number one selling car in the u.s. last year was the camry, the toyota camry, and most of that was produced in the united states. so there's an odd sense of
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america first that is both isolationist and it doesn't -- it's very economically unsophisticated. it's well, somehow the u.s. companies the big three are the only ones i care about when, in fact, g.m. has more employees overseas than it does in the united states. that's true of ford too. chrysler is not even an american company totally. it's basically an italian company. it's a bizarre view of companies. >> this does fly in the face of republican orthodoxy on free markets. >> it does to some extent. there's no question about it. i have to say earlier in the campaign i compared him on occasion to franklin roosevelt now i just want a roosevelt who seriously interfered in the american economy. i don't think that's donald trump's intent but i do think his intent -- i do think he believes to borrow a phrase from president obama the economy's in the ditch and is he going to pull it out of the ditch so this is how he's starting. >> the cynical way of viewing
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all this and i hate to be cynical is that it's all just symbolic. it's just to create the impression he's going to create or he is generating a lot of jobs when, in fact, these companies are not going to do anything that is not in their interest and is not profitable. auto sales of u.s. companies have been absolutely static for years. there is overcapacity by many industry analysts view. gm chrysler and ford to the extent they've done anything in extent to tweets have accelerated plans they've already had or put aside plans they already had to close plants. so this is just for show, right? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. this is somebody who knows full well that he's going to be judged on action. he's promised action and i think he's going to deliver. >> we'll see. sec ti secretary reich, i appreciate
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it. jeffrey, thank you. much more ahead in the next hour of 360, president trump believes what he believes. that's how the white house explains how he lost the popular vote. the white house is offering no proof. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads here. today there's drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. aleve direct therapy.
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says she won't take a bullet for president trump. that's being investigated. first the continuing fallout from the president's debunked claim that millions of undocumented immigrants voted for hillary clinton. it's dominated the headlines for much of the day, there's that and late orders of new executive orders. so you're learning information about new executive actions. let's start with that. what is it? >> reporter: we're hearing from our sources up on capitol hill that president trump will make a stop at the department of homeland security tomorrow and