tv The Messy Truth With Van Jones CNN January 25, 2017 9:00pm-10:01pm PST
can we lose the 'all'. there's no cbs and we don't have a ton of sports. anywhere, any... let's lose the 'anywhere, anytime' too. you can't download on-the-go, there's no dvr, yada yada yada. stream some stuff! somewhere! sometimes! you totally nailed that buddy. simple. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. only xfinity gives you more to stream to any screen. >> welcome to the messy truth. here we are. we are still inside the very first week of something. i don't know what it is. it's either week one of the trump presidency or it's week
one of the anti-trump resistance. either way, the truth has never been messier than it has been these past days. tonight we are going to try to attempt to answer a very serious and very sober question. what in the holy heck is going on in america right now? it is nuts. it feels like the politics of a developing country and not the most adadvanced nation on earth. tonight we are going to try to figure it out. first of all, you have to try to understand your new president. not just agree with him or
disagree with him, but really try to understand him. here's my take. in trump world we are seeing a big clash now between mythology and math. okay? trump just sounds crazy. he sounds like don off the rails. my inauguration crowd was massive. the biggest ever. the inauguration was viewed by more people than ever. if you take away the millions of invisible immigrants, i won the popular vote. without getting into all of that, the math obliterates all of these whoppers. so why does he keep saying stuff like this? the trump mythology requires him to say it. i'm not just talking to his brand. his much, much deeper than that. if you want to understand your president, consider there may be a method to all of this madness. remember trump does not see himself as a normal politician
and he never had the strategy of a normal politician. a normal politician who wants to prove himself will point to the constitution and be done with it. notice something, trump never even mentions the constitution. he talks about polls and ratings and crowd sizes. polls, ratings, and crowd sizes. trump sees himself as the leader of a mass movement. movements are measured by how many people you are moving. okay? trump sees himself as a pop lift which means he needs to be popular. how popular are you when you can't win the popular vote? when you knock his vote totals, you are stroke striking at the very source of this man's legitimacy. trump needs to believe he has the masses with him. so given his mythology and his strategy which is to position himself as a leader, it's
rational in his mind for him to talk about the numberplace even if he has to make up some of them. it's not psychopathy. it's strategy. keep that in mind with the president. she is teeny and tiny and a couple hundred people. 24 months later, that little nothing movement had grown and grown and it took over the house representatives and they still have the house.
by comparison, the women's marchs were massive. this could be the start of something big. do not under estimate the anti-trump resistance and before i move on, i have to say this. before i praise them too much, it is fair to ask where was all of this progressive passion and enthusiasm when it might have mattered like during the election. that's the part that drives me nuts. most of these marchers also voted. how many of them volunteer and got involved and did the phone banking. raise money. you can be mad at trump all you want, but most democrats know they under estimated trump and they didn't do everything they could have done to beat him. let that be a lesson to everybody on both sides. democracy requires hard work every day before, during, and
after an election which forgets that. in this environment, they will regret it. that's it. i want to introduce you guys to somebody who cares about all these issues. voting rights and democracy and someone who fights for vows every day. she is an oscar winner and emmy winner and a grammy winner and tony award winner and all kinds of winner. you want to win? she is the winner. whoop i goldberg. >> i wanted to point something out to you. you asked where were all these people in the march. you want to tell you it wasn't just liberal women marching. trfs female trump voters.
because a lot of the women that i talked to said i voted for him for this reason and i wasn't going to sleep everything out including me. i'm here because i feel like i need to let him know this is not okay. you say this. i saw a tweet from a congress guy who said that -- he said it was a bunch of liberal women marching. you are the kind of person we are marching against. birth control is not just birth control. there it does a lot of things for women's bodies. that's what i want to tell you.
i love it. i want to get to the march and they have different opinions. i do want to get to your opinion about this most recent thing about this voting stuff. you have a guy who is the president of the united states and used to be the president in the 60s was sending investigations into the red states because you had real identifiable people whokd not vote. now you have somebody sending investigations into the blue states where invisible made up people did vote. how does it land with you that voting rights has to be turned upside down into a joke. >> when i'm trying to think of this young lady's name who was with the party that lost. >> the green party? >> the green party. jill stein wanted to do a recount. his people said listen, there
was no voter fraud. we went in and look at this and there is nothing here. i'm thinking okay, you won. now here you come and suddenly now there is millions. it's like millions of voter fraud people. where were they the last time people looked for them. >> i have to bring somebody in here who wants to argue with you. >> i don't want to argue and i have been talking all day. i will talk to you, but i won't argue with you. >> you are talking about when jill stein said there was something wrong with the election. donald trump said there was nothing wrong and now he said there is everything wrong. we have a student here named amanda who did not go to the march and she is a woman. >> i want to start by saying the march was a powerful opportunity and so inspiring for the climate
of our country to see millions of women and humans to turn out to march on a multitude of issues they are passionate about, but it became problematic when they were quick to exclude and not to sponsor a group that did not share the same ideology as them. this was supposed to be an inclusive event. when the main body of protesters disagreed, they were excluded. >> was that i a mistake? >> it was a mistake. >> it was like a litmus test for the kind of woman that could come. >> no, part of the problem and i only found this out yesterday. we asked her about this because she was close with the people who organized. the people who organized this never specifically said this is for you and this is for you. once you get too many people
involved. you can't come and you can't come. from what i understand, it wasn't the case in new york. everybody marched in new york. what i was told is that that was not true of the organizers. yes, it was a mistake. this was about women marching. >> what else do you think as a trump voter? >> i thought the rhetorics were hateful. when you have an icon talking about bombing the white house and thinking about bombing the white house, what consequence does that create? what if someone else said that? >> someone did say it. about obama. ted nugent. it's bad on both sides. >> that's not powerful to create what should have been a positive movement. it should have stayed positive. >> i agree. >> it goes off to a negative avenue. >> we are trying to understand each other a little bit better. we spent a lot of time saying that trump's vile language and
profane language that children are watching. that was one of the best ads. can you see why people might feel like that? >> i'm not arguing against what she is saying. i'm saying this was wrong. i'm not saying hey, when you do that as ted nugent found and as madonna will find, the fbi will knock on your door and say excuse me, we want to talk to you that doesn't work. >> common ground there. >> if you can't -- we had presidents that i disagreed with strongly. we have been able to have these discussions. something about how this began put everybody on edge. whether you believe there should be a wall or whether you are mad at immigrants and whatever it is. there was a civility that disappeared.
i feel like to be able to say to you yeah, you are right about that. it doesn't require me to go hey, what are you talking about. it means i will say yeah, you're right. i can see that. if i can have the dialogue, we might be able to come to an agreement. it becomes an issue when people will not -- when they are not listening. they are ready. i want to hear what she has to say. i talked to a lot of women in particular who voted for trump who a lot of folks said let's see what he does. okay. but i think folks saw. wait a minute. just a second here. >> very, very good. we have a reverend who was at the march and feels differently about it. >> sir, i'm the pastor of the riverside church where martin luther king preached. as a christian minster, i felt it was important for me to show
up in washington at the march to be with our nation in this moment when the soul of our nation seems to be in crisis. with so many who feel marginalize and oppressed. as a woman and a mother of young adults, it was critically important to be there with my kids to get them to experience the democratic process where we show up with differing opinions and to raise our voices because we care about the future of america. >> one of the things i was curious about. it was a women's march and a big women's march. how do we deal with the fact that 42% of the women who voted voted for donald trump and 53% of the white women who voted voted for donald trump against hillary clinton. what kind of a women's movement is it with those numbers? >> i don't think women were voting for women. they were voting for candidates. that should be clear to people. it's what people said.
you are black and you voted for barack obama. don't make that assumption. these women voted their beliefs. if hillary had shared those beliefs, maybe they would have voted for hillary. you have to start up here with the bar. women vote the same way guys vote. they vote what their issue is. i think that it worked the way you are supposed to work. what i wish is it was not so muddy. i wish russia had nufr come up. it's too much. too many things. >> we have a few more to get into. when we get back, there is one issue. i feel weird saying it, but there is an issue donald trump raised. i think democrats may want to take note when we get back. audi pilotless vehicles have conquered highways, mountains, and racetracks.
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>> welcome back. i'm here with whoop i goldberg. first, i want your reaction to this moment from the inauguration that is rolling around in my brain. >> all right. >> the crime and the gangs and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> now, if you thought those were words or rhetoric, we might be seeing action soon. the new president tweeted this last night. put it up. if chicago doesn't fix this horrible carnage, that word again, carnage. 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings of 24% from 2016, i will send in the feds!
now look, here's the messy truth. there is a lot of violence. >> yeah. all over the country. >> there are a lot of funerals and i don't think that when you look at the obama presidency that there was that urgency about the inner city violence. is this a good thing and are you happy that trump is saying he is going to do something? >> if you really wanted to do something, we would have a lot more discussions about how we deal with this crime with the gun issue. see? if you start the investigation with hey, i see you. i see you having issues there. we want to help. what can we do? >> he talked to rahm. he is starting the conversations. >> he is starting the conversation by saying i'm going to put martial law in your state. that's not the way you start a conversation with people. listen, there is bad crime
everywhere. at some point we are going to have to discuss gun violence and what to do. go ahead. >> i want us to open our mind a little bit. this guy is the president of the united states. he wants to put the issue on the table. couldn't trump wind up being the savior? >> i don't know that black folks need a savior. i'm sorry. i wasn't aware. also, obama, let's talk about obama. here the guy gets gets in. day two, what's his name? mitch mcconnell said we are not doing anything. nothing. here he is. then come the posters from the kids that work at the white house and people working in different -- do you remember this? the different offices. one big poster with the
presidents. the last one with obama with big red lips and eyes looking like this. it continued. they continue to do the same thing. i'm saying let's be realistic. if you wanted obama to do something, he did what he could do as the president of everybody. if he had done just stuff for black people, people would have been out of their minds. okay. the guy is not the issue now. i don't mind donald trump wanting to go in and help. i do mind when you start this conversation by saying we are bringing in the feds, that's an issue. >> that could be a negative. you said yourself if the brother had done it, they would say you can't do that. that's terrible. trump is trying to do something. should we work with him? >> i don't know if rahm emmanuel or whoever the governor is, i
don't know if they are feeling like he wants to come in or whether he is grandstanding. there is a trust issue. i don't know. anything that will help, i'm in for it. >> my frustration is and you know this, you go to our communities and all too often, you have the vigils and the teddy bears and the candles. you have yet another young brother or sister who has been killed. we then go say gun control and they say pull your pants up as if they did that. nothing gets done. >> well, if we started in the right place and say listen, i understand you have issues in the community. there are huge issues. there are no jobs. let's talk about the white communities. pills and drugs are the issues. we all got issues. if somebody said listen, come to a summit and tell me.
i would love that. everybody could have the conversation. >> if trump had that and invited whoop i goldberg, would you go? >> it would take a while for me. i will tell you why. because i felt that when he came on to our show years ago spouting the lie that turned out to be he was born in another country and we don't know who he's connected to. that went on for eight years. >> terrible. yeah. >> never has he said i'm sorry. i shouldn't have done that. maybe if he begged. >> if he begged. we might be able it get you. i want to get an important voice in this conversation. this is real life stuff. people are going through things in the community and we have a hero whose husband lost his life.
a law enforcement officer. i want her to be able to ask you a question. >> how are you? >> good. >> my husband was a law enforcement officer who was shot and killed in the line of duty. as we have seen over the past few years, policing is tough in america. >> yeah. >> along with community relations. it's challenging on both sides. lives are lost on both sides. how can we put the politics aside and focus on positive solutio solutions. with the understanding that both sides are at stake. >> uh-huh. there was a police captain, i think he is out of texas, who talked about the fact that his son had been taken by violence. that i think another family member had taken him and how moved he was by what happened because he understood it.
for me, i think people need to get into the community and talk to the folks and say listen, none of us want this. nobody wants to shoot anybody. when something happens, we have to come to you and you have to help us. if no one says listen, there are nervous officers out there and bad things happen. we have to admit that they have happened. we can't sweep it under the rug and say it never happened. both sides have to say listen, i don't have my husband and you don't have your son. we have a connection here. let's try to make it something that will work. i think if honesty in both suppor supports -- the empathy, i guess. it would be much easier for people to say you are not shooting because you don't like it. you were scared. if you are in the dark and somebody comes to a door, i
don't know how i was. you don't want to give me a handouhand gun. you don't want that. >> let's give her a round of applause. nobody wants to go through that. thank you so much. this is the kind of conversation i think america needs to have. we can be real and honest and get messy. another thing that the president talked about in that carnage comment was this piece around drugs. i want to bring my friend, joel, into the conversation. here's your microphone. joel lost a loved one to opioids. >> my son nicholas dialled from kill bag. fent fol is a drug that is stronger than heroin. the dealers are making these and
selling them in hopes it boosts their sales and people come running. that's the mind set of an addict. if someone dies, they have the good stuff. let's go there and get it. okay. so one of the reasons why i voted for donald trump is because he's made a promise that he is going to strengthen the borders and protect them and keep the drugs from coming in. what are we going to do to keep him to the fire to make him stay good on that promise. >> i know something you have seen close and personal, do you have words of comfort for joel before you get down to the policy questions of how many people are suffering with addiction and are dying? >> the opioids and the pills and all of this stuff is so prevalent and it's easy to get. this is going to sound crazy. i'm not so worried about what's coming in from mexico. i'm worried about what's here
and what comes into our homes via a script from a doctor or what kids are doing. they are crushing up the pills and mixing it with cough syrup and it's insane. i don't know what i can tell you about the border. i don't know that that's the issue. i will tell you this. every time you talk about your son and tell that story, somebody's life is getting saved. believe me when i tell you that. please believe me. i know from experience. >> shouldn't we be doing something to prosecute the drug dealers a little harder and make examples out of them when we catch them and they are killing our children. >> they are killing our children, but so is alcohol. people have or six times where they have these driving records.
we have to be clearer. >> let me follow-up on that. >> be careful about this. these crazy commercials that say watch what's going on in your medicine cabinet. i'm telling you that that's the best thing you can do. take what's in there and put it away. >> listen to whoop i. >> or not. >> you mentioned the stuff going on in white communities. when we get back, i went on a road trip where coal miners taught me surprising political truth. i will talk about it when we get back. >> so many pundits have said if they didn't offend the coal miners. they didn't know there was something that you were concerned about. >> everyone thinks we are one-topic people. we are not.
>> we are back with whoop i goldberg. we are back in a moment. here's the messy truth that i discovered in west virginia. coal miners who for generations were reliable voters turned out in droves for donald trump on election day. some of those miners were caricatured as one-issue voters, but they had a lot more on their minds.
take a look. >> west virginia is coal country and has been for generations. coal production has been on a steady decline here since the early 1990s. in the last six years, it took a complete nose dive. that led to a loss of jobs and for many, a loss of hope. enter donald trump. >> and for those miners, get ready because you will be, wooing your ass off. thank you. >> here we are. we are in the heart of coal country. also the heart of the collapse of coal. president trump made a lot of promises to the coal miners. he said he is going to give them a big break tomorrow. we are here in mingo county, west virginia to see what it means to the folk who is live here. i meet up with a group that knows coal. bill has been laid off since 2015. he is a coal mining celebrity for this exchange with hillary clinton during the campaign.
>> i want to know how you can say you are going to put a lot of coal miners out of jobs and come in here and tell us how you are going to be our friend. >> and alan has a job in the mines. >> my first question is simply this. what does trump have to do to deliver, to satisfy folks? >> my reasoning for voting for trump was the presence of trump. you have a political gene pool that is inbred. you have these career politicians and it's populated capitol hill for so long. they are disconnected from the base. trump being an outsider will make people start to think and realize. we could lose our jobs if we don't become more representative. >> you got famous because of the challenge you laid out. >> the very fact alone of pro
life. >> if she had not offended those coal miners, they would have voted for her. they didn't know there was something else. >> everyone thinks we are one-topic people and not. >> you guys are christians and proud of it. as a christian couple, how can you support donald trump when you know the fear he strikes into the hearts of american muslim children, american latino children. how do you round that circle? >> sorry. it hits close to home because some of her family won't speak to me because of my support for donald trump. >> we have muslim american family. >> her sister is married to a jordanian man. they never expressed their fears to us beforehand as far as that. >> i wouldn't want anybody to
think just because someone is in office that it's not a dictatorship. this is still america. it is still awesome. it's a country of immigrants. you can't say we are not going to let anybody in. it has to be done in the right responsible way. i would like to ask donald trump what are you going to say to the people who are scared? >> my last question is this. hope is a fragile thing. >> sure is. >> it's hard to get and when it goes, it's devastating. you have people hanging by a threat. their jobs and pensions are gone and health care is not there and trying to push that opioid away. you see a man and tell the president. speak for them. >> mr. president, you are the most unconventional candidate that took this office. a lot of mechanisms in place to put you in there and in your own words, if you do not deliver,
you're fired. >> a round of applause there. good people. >> always good people. >> good people. >> don't agree with them politically. they got the same problems, whoop i. that we have in the hood. jobs, not there. drugs there. health care. why do poor white folks and poor black folks stand together? >> someone always puts a label on it. said it's not us. they are doing it. once you start with them or them or that neighborhood, poor people are poor people. they are trying to do their best and raise their kids and do you
have to make sure they can breathe. make sure the air is clean. if you don't do that. we will have an issue. the company said look. that will cost us too much money. we will take our business elsewhere. i don't understand why we can't figure out how to make it work on both ends. >> i think the common pain should lead to common purpose. both parties, the democrats let down the rural poor. both parties should do better. whoop i goldberg, thank you for being here. it means so much to have you here. a legend.
listen. when we get back, i am kind of confused. about the first six days. i'm going to bring in the best trump translator. jeffrey lord. we disagree a lot. you are going to learn something. jeffrey lord. i love the smell of napalm in the morning. no, this is double espresso. hodor! hodor! ehhh, hodor.
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>> welcome back to the messy truth. i'm van jones. it has been about 24 hours since president trump signed an executive order that will do lasting permanent damage to mother earth. the keystone xl pipeline, the dakota access pipeline are two pro pollution projects that our great grandchildren are going to be regretting and it's part of
the drill and burn, drill and spill agenda. it's terrible. it's terrible. are we talking about it? are we getting it to all the climate science about it and the clean water policy ramifications? nope. no, we're not. why? because the entire country has been consumed with this whole fake voter fraud nonsense. i'm thinking, you know, maybe there is a method to trump madness. i laid out one explanation for why he is pushing the crazy theories. there is another that goes hand in hand with that one. maybe he is saying all this crazy stuff to distract us from what he is doing. that would be a chilling prospect. here's another thing you want to consider. think about this in america. you know what the number one book being sold is? 1984 by george orwell. i want to read you a passage.
it says the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and your ears. it was their final most essential command. let me tell you this. you can believe your eyes and you can believe your ears. data is data, facts are facts. there are no alternative facts. let's not go down that road and i hope that's not where trump is trying to lead us. to find out, let's bring in the best trumpologist i know on earth, the great jeffrey lord. get him up on the stage. my nemesis. >> how are you, my friend? >> have a seat. >> thank you. >> jeff and i are like the ernie and bert of american politics. >> how has your week been? >> for you it has been great and for me terrible.
thanks for asking. help us understand. is this an or wellian plot or do you think trump believes the stuff he is saying? >> all what stuff? >> about what stuff? >> about 5 million people, half the number of undocumented people in america all snuck into voting booths. >> this is how he always started. i don't know what the number is and talking to people very familiar with this, they say that's the problem that this is in fact happening and has happened. numbers we don't know about. heritage foundation for example has records, just a sample, 700 criminal cases, supplied the names, convictions, who the people were et cetera on their site and you can find this kind of thing lots of places. >> isn't that a long way from 700 to 3 million, 5 million? >> congressional race in california in 1996 where the
candidate won by 1,000 votes and house committee investigated later and found 664 cast by illegal immigrants. so in other words i don't understand the hesitation of dealing with the problem. find out for heaven's sake. when people who are noncitizens of the country are voting, canceling out the votes of everyone in the room. >> help me understand this, why is he canceling out his own election, he won, why are we having this conversation? >> we're having lots of conversations. >> one of the things that happens when you change presidents -- this happens by the way, historical reference -- >> getting to reagan? >> i'll get there. reagan was complete opposite of carter, barack obama the complete opposite of george w. bush.
the american people often enough decide after electing this person want to go all over here to elect this person to succeed him and he's the direct opposite of president obama. >> and one thing people don't know about me and you, much as we fight on tv we actually are friends and we care about health care. your mom is going through a lot and so is mine. we take this seriously. there's a family here i want you to hear from. we have the entire family here. this is a family that has gone through some of the scariest stuff you can go through when it comes to cancer, talking about preexisting conditions this is the fact of their lives. >> this is my daughter kelsey, two time cancer survivor.
at age seven she was diagnosed with stage four cancer, covered under our insurance, graduated from college at age 22. affordable care act allowed her to continue on our health care plan until age 26 if need be and that was a god send. five months after graduation he was diagnosed with her second cancer. she was covered under our plan because he was able to stay on our plan. we understand there's issues with the aca, not saying it's perfect but it's clearly helped millions of people across the country including us. i guess my question is, why is the gop in such a rush to repeal the aca without having a specific plan to replace it? and then maybe secondly, there are certainly good parts of the affordable care act, preexisting conditions, no limits on
lifetime caps, what's the hurry and why can't some of those be kept? >> i think some of them will be kept. listening to them and president trump himself has mentioned this. i do feel a lot of people out there are upset about the act. in the course of writing about this since its inception come across people, i talked to one woman who believes affordable care act was responsible for taking her husband's life and another guy says the same about his sister and go into stories which are poignant, fact of the matter is american people writ large don't think the system is working and want to change it. >> you may be right but let me say, people need confidence. confidence comes from competence. isn't it incompetent to be this
far gnat debate and we still don't have a plan from the president? talking about months. don't you understand why people who want to give him a chance are terrified right now? >> sure. here's the thing. i understand. but as you know, seen the pictures when obamacare was passed. it was this high. to repeal and replace means you have to have people up there going through every last page of this thing to figure out that they're not going to accidentally hurt people here. and get this done at the same time. >> we'll come back. stick around. we have more questions from the audience in our next segment. (vo) when you're on your phone 24/7, you probably think you need an unlimited plan. but actually, the majority of people pay for data they never use. that's right, two out of three people use less than five gigs. now verizon introduces
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welcome back to "the messy truth," i'm van jones, got jeffrey lord with me. president donald trump signed two executive actions today. one about building a wall on the u.s./mexican border and other is taking funding away from sanctuary cities refusing to turn over undocumented immigrants but aren't we give us -- supposed to be the country of immigrants? give us your tired, your poor, your yearning to live free. you want too knock over the statue of liberty? >> everyone in this room and everybody in this country is descendant of immigrant. >> except for native americans. >> and they came from somewhere else originally. did they not? that's where we start on this. his only point is when people come into this country from elsewhere, we need to know who they are.