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tv   The Messy Truth With Van Jones  CNN  January 27, 2017 9:00pm-10:01pm PST

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welcome to the messy truth. here we are. we are still inside the very first week of something. i don't know what it is. it's either week one of the trump presidency or it's week one of the anti-trump resistance. either way, the truth has never been messier than in these past six days. tonight we will try to attempt to answer a very serious and very sober question. what in the holy heck is going on in america right now? it is nuts!
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it does not even feel like america. first of all, we have a boastful strong man who is playing with the facts and media sources that have to pick between being pro opposition or pro government. massive demonstrations and counter demonstrations flooding the streets in america. it feels more like the politics of a developing country, not the most advanced nation on earth. what in the world is going on? tonight we are going to try to figure it out. here's how i see it. first of all, you have got to try to understand your new president. not just agree with him or disagree with him, but really try to understand him. here's my take. in trump world, we are seeing a big clash now between mythology and math. to his detractors, he sounds crazy. he sounds like don off the rails. my inauguration crowd was massive.
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the biggest ever and the inauguration was viewed by more people than ever and if you take away the invisible undocumented immigrants, i won the popular vote. without getting into all of that, the math obliterates all of these whoppers. why does he keep saying stuff like this? it's because the trump mythology requires him to say it. i'm not just talking about his brag doeshs brand. it's deeper than that. consider there may be a method to all of this madness. remember trump does not see himself as a normal politician and he never had the strategy of a normal politician. a normal politician wants to prove himself. you point to the constitution and the electoral college and be done with it. trump never even mentions the constitution. he talks about polls and ratings
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and crowd sizes. poll, ratings, and crowd sizes. why? he sees himself as the leader of a mass movement first and foremost. movements are measured by how many people you are moving. he is a pop lift that means he needs to be popular. how popular are you when you don't even win the popular vote. when you knock the vote totals, you are striking at the very source of this man's legitimacy. trump needs to believe he has the masses with him. given his mythology and his strategy which is to position himself as a pop lift leader, it is rational to talk about the numbers even if he has to make tup. it's not just psychopathy. that's strategy. keep that in mind. what about the anti-trump resistance? they are also misunderstood. the big marches are a bunch of sore losers.
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trump won. awe contrar. you might want to rethink that. i remember 2009 when the democrats had the white house and the senate and the house and president obama was the most popular human being on earth. we thought we were invincible and then the tea party showed up. they were teeny tiny with little bitty protests. a couple hundred people and we laughed them off. 24 months later, that little nothing movement had grown and grown and took over the house of representatives and they still have the house. by comparison, these women's marches were massive. this could be the start of something big. do not under estimate the anti-trump resistance. before i move on, i have to say this. before i praise them too much, it is fair to ask, where was all of this progressive passion and
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enthusiasm when it might have mattered, like during the election? that's the part that drives me nuts. i'm sure most of these marchers also voted, but how many of vem volunteered and got involved and did the phone banking and went to swing states and raised money? you can be mad at trump all you want, but deep down, most democrats know they totally under estimated trump and they didn't do everything they could have done to beat him. let that be a lesson to everybody on both sides. democracy requires hard work every day before, during, and after an election and whichever side forgets that is going to regret it. now, that said, i want to introduce you guys to somebody who cares about all these issues, voting rights, women's right, democracy. someone who does fight for her views every single day. she is an oscar winner, emmy winner, a grammy winner, a tony award
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winner, all kinds of winner. she is the winner. the real winner. whoop i goldberi goldberg. >> i wanted to point something out to you. you asked where were all these people? i wanted to tell you it wasn't just liberal women marching. it was female trump voters because a lot of the women that i talked to said listen, i voted for him for this reason, but i wasn't aware he was going to sweep everything out so i'm here because i feel like i need to let him know this is not okay. when you say that, just know -- i saw a tweet from some congress
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guy who said that -- you know who i'm talking about. it's just a bunch of liberal women marching, why should i pay for your birth control? you are the kind of person that we are marching against because you should know that birth control is not just birth control. birth control does a lot of things for women's bodies. if you are not going to do your homework, don't make statements like that. you sound dumb. so that's what i want to tell you. >> whoopi goldberg. i love it. the march was amazing and we want to get to the march and people here have different opinions and we want to get them in. i want to get your opinion about the most recent thing around the voting stuff. you have a guy who is the president of the united states and used to be the president
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back in the 60s was sending investigations into the red states because you had real identifiable people who could not vote. now you have somebody sending investigations into the blue states where invisible made up people did vote. how does it land with you this idea that voting rights have been turned upside down? >> listen, when i'm trying to think of this young lady's name who was with one of the parties that lost. the green party. jill stein wanted to do a recount. his people said listen, there was no voter fraud. we went through all of this. we looked at this and there is nothing here. i'm thinking okay. you won. now here you come and suddenly now there is millions of voter fraud people. where were they the last time people looked for them?
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look -- >> i have to bring someone who wants to argue with you. >> i don't want to argue. i have been talking all day. i will talk to you, but ooi i'm not going to argue. >> you are talking about when jill stein went into court. he said there was nothing wrong with the election and now he said there is everything wrong with the election. we have a student here named amanda who did not go to the march and she is a woman. >> absolutely. i want to start by saying the march was a powerful opportunity. it is so inspiring for the political climate to see millions of women and humans turn out nationally to march on a multitude of issues they are passionate about, however i think the march became problematic when a, they were quick to exclude and not to sponsor a group that did not share the same ideology as them.
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this was supposed to be an inclusive event. as soon as the main body of protesters disagreed, they were excluded for being sponsored. >> that was a mistake? >> it was a mistake. it was absolutely a mistake. >> it was like a litmus test for the kind of woman who could come. >> part of the problem and i only found this out because we asked her about this because she is close with the people who organize. the people who organized this never specifically said this is for you and you. once you get too many people involved, everybody said you can't come and you can't come. from what i understand and it wasn't the case in new york because everybody marched in new york. what i was told by her is that that was not true of the organizers. yes, it was a mistake. this was about women marching. >> what else do you think about the march as a trump voter?
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>> i thought the rhetoric was hateful very quickly. when you have madonna talking about bombing the white house, what kind of consequence does that create? >> someone else said it about obama. ted nugent. it's bad on both sides. >> it should have been a positive movement and stayed positive. >> i agree. >> that goes off to a negative avenue. >> we are trying to understand each other. i remember that we spent a lot of time saying that trump's vile language and his profane language, the children are watching, that was one of the best ads. could the children have watched this march? can you see why people might have been hypocritical. >> i'm not arguing against what she was saying. i'm saying this was wrong. when you do that as ted nugent
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found and madonna will find, the fbi will knock on your door and say excuse me, we want to talk to you. that rhetoric doesn't work. >> common ground there. we had presidents before that i have disagreed with very strongly, but we have been able to have these discussions. something about how this began put everybody on edge. whether you believe there should be a wall or are mad at immigrants or whatever it is, there was a civility that disappeared and just sort of -- i feel like to be able to say to you yeah, you are right about that. it doesn't require me to go hey, what are you talking about? say yeah, you're right. i can see that. if i can have the dialogue, we might be able to come to some agreement. it becomes an issue when people
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are not listening. they are ready to get their part in. i want to hear what she has to say. a lot of women who voted for trump who a lot of folks said let's see what he does. said okay. i think folks saw this and said wait a minute. just a second here. >> very, very good. we have a reverend who was at the march and feels differently about it. >> i'm the pastor of the riverside church where martin luther king preached many sermons. in that tradition, it was important if are me to show up in washington at the march and to be with our nation in this moment when the soul of our nation seems to be in a crisis. with so many who feel marginalized and oppressed. as a woman and a mother of young adults, it was critically important for me to be there with my kids and to get them to experience the democratic
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process where we show up with differing opinions and to raise our voices because we care about the future of america. that's why i went. >> one of the things that i was curious about and it was a women's march and a big women's march, but how do we deal with the fact that 42% of the women who voted voted for donald trump and 53% of the white women who voted voted for donald trump against hillary clinton. what kind of a women's movement is it when you have those numbers? >> i don't think women were voting for women. they were voting for candidates. that should be clear. people said you are black and you voted for barack obama. don't make that assumption. these women voted their beliefs. if hillary shared their beliefs, maybe they would vote for hillary. first you have to start with the bar. women vote the same way.
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they vote their issue. i think it worked the way it was supposed to work. what i wish is it wasn't so muddy. i wish yaush had never come up. it's too much. too many things. >> luckily we have a few more segments and you are going to be surprised. there is one issue and i feel weird saying this. one issue that i am glad donald trump raised and i think democrats ought to take note. that's charmin ultra strong, dude. cleans so well, it keeps your underwear cleaner. so clean... you could wear them a second day. charmin ultra strong. it's 4 times stronger, and you can use less enjoy the go with charmin.
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don't pay hundreds more for taxes and fees on your wireless bill. introducing t-mobile one. now with taxes and fees included. get 4 lines of unlimited lte data for 40 bucks each. all unlimited. all in! switch to t-mobile today. >> welcome back to the messy truth. i'm here with whoopi goldberg. first i want your reaction to this moment from the inauguration that is still rolling around in my brain. >> the crime and the gangs and the drugs that have stolen too
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many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> now, if you thought those were just words or rhetoric, we might be seeing action soon. the new president tweeted this last night. if chicago doesn't fix this horrible carnage, that word again, carnage. 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings, up 24% from 2016, i will send in the feds! now, look. here's the messy truth. there is a lot of violence. >> yeah. all over the country. >> there are a lot of funerals and i don't think when you look at the obama presidency there was that urgency about the inner city violence.
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aren't you happy that trump is saying he is going to do something? >> you know what, if he wanted to do something, we would have a lot more discussions about how we deal with this crime and with the gun issue. to me if you start the conversation, i see you are having issues there. >> he is starting the conversations. >> yeah, but he is starting it by saying i'm going to put martial law in your state. that's not the way you start a conversation with people. there is bad crime everywhere, but at some point we are going to have to discuss gun violence and what to do. go ahead. >> i want us to open our mind a little bit. he wants to put the issue on the table couldn't he end up being
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the savior for black folks. >> i don't know that black folks need a savior. i'm sorry. i wasn't aware. obama, let's talk a little bit about obama. here the guy gets in and day two, what's his name? mitch mcconnell said we are not doing anything. nothing. here he is. then come the posters from the kids that work at the white house. the people working in different -- do you remember this? the different offices. the big poster with all the presidents and the last one was obama with big red lips and big eyes. >> that was bad. >> it continued. then it continued. >> let's not do the same thing. >> let's be realistic. obama did what he could do as
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the president of everybody. if he had done just stuff for black people, people would be out of their minds. the guy is not the issue now. i don't mind donald trump wanting to go in and help. i do mind that when you start this conversation by saying we are bringing in the feds, to me that's an issue. >> that are could be a negative, but you said yourself if the brother had done it, they would say you can't do that. now you have trump who is trying to do that. should we work with him? >> i don't know if rahm emmanuel or whoever the governor is, i don't know if they are feeling like he wants to come in or whether he is grandstanding. there is a trust issue. i don't know. anything that will help, i'm in for it. >> my frustration and you know this, you go to our communities and all too often you got the vigils and the teddy bears and
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the candles because you have yet another young brother or young si sister who has been killed. they said pull your pants up and nothing gets done. >> if we started to the right place and said listen, i understand you have issues in the community. there are huge issues. there are no jobs. let's talk about the white communities where pills and drugs are the issues. we all got issues. if somebody said listen, come to a summit and tell me what you are seeing in your community. i would love that. >> if trump had that and invited you, would you go? >> it would take a while for me. i will tell you why. i felt that when he came on to our show years ago spouting the
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lie that turned out to be -- he was born in another country and we don't know who he is connected to. and that went on for eight years and never has he said you know what, i'm sorry. i shouldn't have done that. if he begged. >> he might be able to get you. listen, i want to get somebody else in the conversation. this is not abstract. this is real life stuff. we have people who are going through things and we have a hero here whose husband lost his life. a law enforcement officer. i want her to be able to ask you a question. >> hi there, how are you? >> good. >> my husband was shot and killed in the line of duty. as we have seen over the past few years, community policing is tough in america. along with our community
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relations. it's challenging on both sides. lives are lost on both sides. how can we put the politics aside and really focus on positive solutions with the understanding that both sides are at stake. >> there was a police captain, i think out of texas. he talked about the fact that his son had been taken by violence. i think another family member been taken and how moved he was by what happened because he understood it. for me, i think people need to get into the community and talk to the folks and say listen, none of us want this. nobody wants to shoot anybody. but when something happens, we have to come to you and you have to help us. if no one says listen, there are nervous officers out there and bad things do happen, but we
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have to admit that they have happened. we can't sweep it under the rug and say it never happened. we have to make everybody honest and both sides have to say listen, i don't have my husband and you don't have your son. we have a connection here. let's try to make it something that will work. i think honesty in both supports and in the police department were clearer. empathy, i guess. it would be much easier for people to say you are not just shooting because you don't like me. you were scared. i think people would understand that. if you are in the dark and somebody comes through a door, i don't know how i would respond. you don't want to give me a hand gun. you don't want that. >> first of all, let's give her a round of applause. nobody wants to go through that. thank you so much.
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this is the kind of thing that can get messy. another thing the president talked about in the carnage comment was the piece around drugs. i want to bring my friend joel into the conversation. here's the microphone. he lost a loved to opioids. >> my son nicholas died from a kill bag. he thought he was purchasing heroin and it turned out to be pure fentanyl which is 60 times stronger than heroin. these dealers are making these kill bags and they are selling them. what it does in the hopes of boosting sales. it skyrockets. people come rung. that's the mind set of an addict. if someone dies, they have the good stuff, let's go there and get it. so one of the reasons why i voted for donald trump is because he made a promise that he is going to strengthen the
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borders and protect them and keep the drugs from coming in. what are we going to do to keep him to the fire to make him stay good on that promise? >> i know addiction is something that you have seen close and personal. do you have words of comfort for joel before you get down to the policy questions given how many people are suffering with addiction and are dying? >> the opioids and the pills and all of this stuff has been so prevalent and easy to get. this is going to sound crazy, but i'm not so worried about what's coming from mexico. i'm worried about what's here and what comes into our homes via a script from a doctor or what kids are doing. they are mixing and crushing up the pills and mixing it with cough syrup and it's insane. i don't know what to -- what i
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can tell you about the border. join that that's the issue. i will tell you this, every time you talk about your son and tell that story, somebody's life is getting saved. please believe me when i tell you that. please. i know from experience. >> shouldn't we be doing something to prosecute the drug dealers and prosecute them harder. they are killing our children. >> they are killing our children, but so is alcohol. people have five or six times where they have got these driving records and we have to be clearer. i think. >> let me follow-up on that. you probably don't think that the border strengthening and the crack down will make a difference, but what would make a difference and get people off drugs in the middle time we have left? >> be careful.
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these crazy commercials that say watch what's going on in your medicine cabinet. i'm telling you that is the best thing you can do. take what's in there and put it away. >> listen to whoopi goldberg. >> or not.
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we are back with whoopi goldberg. first, here's the messy truth they discovered in west virginia's coal country. coal miners who for generations were reliable democratic party voters turned out in droves for donald trump on election day. some of those miners remember caricatures of one-issue voters. they had a lot more on their minds. take a look. west virginia is coal country and has been for generations. coal production has been on a steady decline here since the early 1990s. in the last years, it's taken a nose dive. that led to a loss of jobs and a
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loss of hope. enter donald trump. >> for the miners, you will be working your ass off. >> we are in the heart of coal country. also the heart of the collapse of coal. president trump made a lot of promises to the coal miners. he said he is going to give them a big break tomorrow. we are here in mingo county, west virginia to see what it means to the folks who live here. i meet up with a group that definitely knows coal. bo has been laid off since 2015. he is sort of a coal mining celebrity for this exchange with hillary clinton during the campaign. >> i want to know how you can say you are going to put a lot of coal miners out of jobs and tell us how you are going to be our friend. >> and alan has a job in the mines. >> my first question is simply this. what does trump have to do to
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deliver? to satisfy folks? >> my reason for voting for trump was not because of policies, but a presence of trump. we have a gene pool that is inbred. the same individuals that populated capitol hill is disconnected from the base. trump will make people start to think and realize we could possibly lose our jobs and don't become more representative. >> you got famous because of the challenge laid out to hillary clinton. if she had a different position would you have voted for her? >> no, sir. >> why not? >> on the very fact alone of pro life. >> if she hadn't have offended the coal miners. they didn't know something else was on your mind. >> everyone thinks we are one-topic people. we are not. >> you are christians and proud
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of it. as a christian couple, how can you support donald trump when you know the fear he strikes into muslim children and american latino children? how do you round that circle? >> i'm sorry. it hits kind of close to home because some of her family won't speak to me right now because of my support for donald trump. >> we have muslim-american family. >> her sister is married to a jordanian man. they never expressed their fears to us beforehand as far as this. >> i wouldn't want anybody to think just because someone is in office that it's not a dictatorship. this is still america. it is still awesome. it's a country of immigrants. you can't say we are not going to let anybody in, but it has to be done in the right responsible way. i would like to ask donald trump
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what are you going to say to the people who are scared? >> my last question is this. hope is a fragile thing. >> sure it. >> it's hard to get and when it goes, it's devastating. you have people hanging by a threat. the jobs are gone and pensions are gone and health care is not there. they are trying to push the olymp opioid. speak for them to the president. >> mr. president, you are a most unconventional candidate. a lot of things happen. a lot of mechanisms that put you in there and in your own words, if you do not deliver, you're fired. >> round of applause there. >> good people. >> always good people. >> good people. don't agree with them politically, but they got some of the same problems, whoopi,
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that we have in the hood. jobs not there, drugs there. health care fragile. same in the hood. why do they find up fighting when we should be standing? >> someone always puts a label on it. they said it's not us. they are doing it. once you start pointing at them or them or that neighborhood or that neighborhood, poor people are poor people. they are all just trying to do their best and raise their kids. trying to do all the things that everybody wants to do. the miners have a particularly tough issue because on one hand, the epa said you have to treat these people like people. you can't treat them like that. you have to make sure they can
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breathe and the air is clean. if you don't, we will have an issue. the company said look, that's going to cost us too much money. we are going to take our business elsewhere. i don't understand why we can't figure out how to make it work. >> the common pain should lead to common purpose. both party, the democrats have lead down the rural poor and republicans lead down the rural poor. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> a legend. a legend. >> in my own mind. >> the winner. when we get back, i have to tell you, you are scared and i'm scared. the first days of the donald trump presidency. i will bring in the best trump translator. jeffrey lord and i guarantee we will fight, but you are going to learn something. he will be with us when we get back.
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>> welcome back to the messy truth. i'm van jones. it has been about 24 hours since president trump signed an ekative order that will do lasting permanent damage to mother earth. okay? the keystone xl pipeline and the dakota access pipeline are two pro pollution projects that our great grandchildren will be regretting and it's part of trump's drill and burn, drill and spill agenda. and it's terrible. it's terrible. are we talking about it? are we getting it to all the climate science and the clean water policy ramifications? nope. we are not. why? the entire country has been consumed with this voter fraud nonsense. i'm thinking maybe there is a method to trump's madness. i laid out one explanation for why he was pushing the series.
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maybe he was saying all this crazy stuff to distract us from what he is really doing. that would be a chilling prospect. here's another thing you want to answer. think about this. right now today in america, the number one book being sold is 1984 by george orwell. it says the party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and your ears. it was their final most essential command. you can believe your eyes and you can believe your ears. data is data. facts are facts. there are no alternative facts, okay? let's not go down that road. i hope that's not where trump is trying to lead us, but to find out for sure, let's bring in the best trumpologist i know on earth, the great jeffrey lord!
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get him up on the stage. my nemesis. >> grab a seat. >> like the ernie and bert of american politics. >> how has your week been? >> for you, great. for me, terrible. thanks for asking. help us understand. is this an orwellian plot or do you think trump believes all the stuff he is saying? >> all what stuff? >> the five million people, half of the number of undocumented people in america all snuck into voting booths and nobody noticed. >> here we go. look. i don't know what the number is and in talking to people who are very familiar with this, they say that's the problem.
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this has happened. the numbers we don't know about. the heritage foundation has records. just a sample. 700 criminal cases that. i flied the supplied the names, who the people were, et cetera on their site. you can find this kind of thing in lots of places. >> isn't it a long way from 700 to 3 million, 5 million. >> but there was a congressional race in california, for example, in 1996 where the candidate won by 1,000 votes and a house committee investigated the election later and found out that 664 of them had been cast by illegal immigrants. so in other words, i mean, i don't understand the hesitation with dealing with the problem. find out for heaven's sake because when people who are noncitizens of country are voting, they're canceling out the votes of everybody in this room. >> help me understand this. why is he canceling out his own election? i mean honestly, the guy won.
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why are we having this conversation. >> we're having lots of conversations. >> this conversation. >> van, i think one of the things that happens when you change presidents who are -- and this happens, by the way, here goes my historical reference. >> are you going to get to reagan? >> i'll get there. i'll mention in this go round. ronald reagan was the complete opposite of jimmy carter. barack obama was the complete opposite of george w. bush. the american people quite often enough decide after electing this person they want to go all the way over here and elect this person to succeed. and he is i think you would agree the direct opposite of president obama. >> one thing people don't know about me and you, we actually are friends. >> we are. >> and one of the things we both care an awful lot about is health care. your mom is going through a lot when it comes to health care. so is my mom. we both take this very, very seriously. there's a family here i also
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want you to hear from. we have the entire family here. listen, this is a family that has actually gone through some of the scariest stuff you can go through when it comes to cancer and when you deal with pre-existing conditions. this is the fact of their lives. >> this is my daughter kelsey. she is a two-time cancer survivor. >> wow. >> at age -- [ applause ] >> at age 7, she was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. was covered under our insurance. she graduated from college at age 22. the affordable care act allowed her to continue on our health care plan till age 26 if need be. that was a godsend because five months after graduation, she was diagnosed with her second cancer. so she was covered under our plan because she was able to stay on our plan. now, we understand that there's issues with the aca.
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we're not saying it's perfect but it has clearly helped millions of people across the country including us. i guess my question is, why is the gop in such a rush to repeal the aca without having a spec plan to replace it? and then maybe secondly, there are certainly good parts of the affordable care act. pre-existing condition clause. >> certainly. >> the age 26 clause, limit, no limits on lifetime caps. what's the hurry and why can't some of those things be kept in whatever the gop -- >> i think some of those things will be kept candidly and listening to president trump himself has mentioned this. i do feel that there are a lot of people out there who are very upset with the act. i mean, in the course of writing about this since its inception, i have come across people. i talked to one woman, for example, who believes that the affordable care act was responsible for taking her husband's life. and another guy who says the
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same of his sister and they go into their stories which are very poignant. the fact of the matter is that the american people at large want think that the system is not working. they want to change it. >> you may be right. let me just say though, but you know, people need confidence. you worry about your mop every day. i worry about my mom every day. confidence comes from competence. isn't it incompetent to be this far in the debate and we still don't have a plan from the president? he's been talking about it for 18 months. listen, don't you understand why people even people who might want to give him a chance are terrified right now? >> sure. look, here's the thing. i understand. i understand. but as you know, you've seen the pictures when obamacare was passed. it was like this high. okay, so to repeal and replace means you've got to have people up there going through this through every last you know page of this thing to figure out that they're not going to
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accidentally hurt people here and get this done you know at the same time. >> we'll come back. we've got more questions from the audience in our next segment. very good. we'll keep talking. my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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welcome back to the messy truth. i'm van jones. jeffrey lord is here with me. president donald trump signed two executive actions today, one is about building a wall on the u.s./mexican border, the other one is taking funding away from sanctuary cities that refuse to hand over undocumented immigrants. here's the thing for me. aren't we supposed to be the country of immigrants and refugees? whatever happened to the statue of liberty, give me your tired, your poor you your huddled masses yearning to live free. i feel like you're against the statue of liberty, jeffrey.
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what's wrong with you? >> one thing, let's start with this. everybody in this room not to mention everybody in this country, is a dezendent scent o immigrant. >> except for native americans. >> they came from somewhere else, too. so that's where we start on this. his only point here is that when people come into this country from elsewhere, we need to know who they are. i mean, this woman that came in, that went to san bernardino on this so-called k1 fiance visa, she apparently had all sorts of stuff on her social media that basically said she was coming here for jihad purposes. nobody paid attention. and 14 people dead at a holiday, a christmas party just at the office. that's nuts. >> which is horrible. i don't think especially anybody that knows you, you don't have any ill intention. you're not up to anything negative at all. and yet, there are consequences to the

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