tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN March 22, 2017 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
become a secondary effort. >> reporter: just how busy is north korea with its weapons programs? the pentagon calculates it has increased its missile launches by more than 80% over the last year. wolf? >> barbara, thank kate bolduan picks up our special coverage on "erin burnett out front." democrats crying foul after trump's communications may have been incidentally picked up by the intelligence community. time for an independent investigation on trump and russia? the other major breaking story tonight, terror attack in london, four dead, at least 40 injured. the investigation ongoing. was it isis? plus, does president trump have the votes? hours before the house votes on the republican health care plan, one congressman changed his no vote to, quote, hell no. let's go "out front." good evening. i'm kate bolduan out for erin
burnett. a stunning battle in washington tonight. devin nunes, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, revealing today donald trump's personal communications may have been incidentally picked up by intelligence agencies conducting legal surveillance. nunes arrived at the white house today to personally brief the president on this finding. he also briefed the media, which infuriated democrats who say that he left them all in the dark. >> the president needs to know these intelligence reports are out there and i have the duty to tell him that. what i've read seems to be some level of surveillance activity, perhaps legal, but i don't know that it's right and i don't know that the american people would be comfortable with what i've read. >> tonight, democrats are calling nunes out, saying it was a purely political move on his part today. they accused him of trying to give the president cover for his baseless charge that president obama wiretapped trump's phones.
the top democrat on that very same house committee, adam schiff, saying he has grave concerns over what the chairman revealed. democratic leader nancy pelosi going much further, charging nunes is now in her words deeply compromised in saying he cannot possibly lead an honest investigation. athena jones is "out front" for us tonight at the white house. this is a pretty stunning twist in an already complex and highly charged political story. >> reporter: it is highly charged and it is complex, kate. and this announcement by chairman nunes was clearly welcome news to the white house today. they've been under fire for the past three weeks because of the president's baseless claim that he says predecessor was spying on him. while nunes' statements today in no way confirm that claim, they did muddy the waters a bit, raising questions about surveillance collection. and the white house seemed pretty eager to make sure that reporters had a chance to go out and speak with chairman nunes,
announcing that he was headed to the stakeout cameras here after his meeting with the president. a short while later, they did not do that when members of the congressional black caucus were headed out to speak. a top republican stepping squarely into trump's political storm. house intelligence committee chairman devin nunes says president trump's personal communications could have been picked up by investigators through, quote, incidental collection of intelligence, not involving russia. >> this is information that was brought to me i thought the president needed to know where incidental collection and the president and himself and others in the transition team were clearly put into intelligence reports that ended up at this white house and across a whole bunch of other agencies, and i thought it was important for the president to know this. >> reporter: nunes also said he was alarmed to discover the names of u.s. citizens involved in the trump transition or otherwise associated with the incoming administration in a few
dozen intelligence reports. a practice he referred to as unmasking. a white house ally who was on the executive committee of the trump transition, nunes came to the white house to brief president trump. the top democrat on the committee said nunes' actions make a good case for an independent select committee investigation, adding -- >> if you have a chairman who is interacting with the white house and sharing information with the white house when people around the white house are the subject of the investigation and doing so before sharing wit the committee, it throws a profound doubt over whether that can be done credibly. >> reporter: the president later said he felt somewhat vindicated by nunes. >> i somewhat do, i must tell you. i somewhat do. i very much appreciated the fact that they found what they found. >> reporter: nunes agreed, telling cnn -- >> president trump to some degree is right that, you know, he did end up in some intelligence reports. >> reporter: but that is not
what trump tweeted three weeks ago in a series of predawn messages that began -- "terrible. just found out that obama had my wires tapped in trump tower just before the victory. nothing found. this is mccarthyism." but nunes said the revelations did not in any way confirm the president's ununsubstantiated claim that the president spied on trump tower. >> i always said there wasn't a physical wiretap of trump tower. no evidence of that at pull. >> reporter: democrats on the committee said they were not familiar with the evidence nunes cited and one member of the committee said the community cases in question were senior-level people talking about trump, not trump himself, calling it mostly gossip about what trump was planning for his administration. the nunes news comes as the president faces a credibility crisis of his own making. that's according to the usually friendly "wall street journal" editorial page, writing today of his refusal to retract his widely refuted wiretapping claims, saying, "if he doesn't
show more respect for the truth, most americans may conclude he's a fake president." there's no sign that the president or the white house tan plans to retract his accusations against president obama, and to be clear about what chairman nunes said today, he cannot say for sure that the president's communications were collected, just that they might have been. a nunes spokesperson has declined to respond to congressman schiff's allegation that nunes was working with the white house instead of the house intelligence committee that he chairs. it's that same committee that is charged with probing russia's meddling into the 2016 election and any ties between russian officials and trump associates. kate? >> athena jones, thanks so much. "out front" now, democratic congresswoman jackie spear. she sits on that committee. thanks for your time. >> thank you.
>> congressman schiff, the top democrat on the committee, called this a body blow to the investigation. he says he now has basically ruled out that chairman nunes can run an impartial investigation into the trump campaign and the ties to russia. do you have confidence in chairman nunes? >> i would agree with ranking member schiff. we can't have a presidential whisperer running the independent investigation by the intelligence committee on the russian interference in our elections and what relationship if any trump associates had with the russians. >> something else he said, to your point, you said a trump whisperer, if you will. nunes needs to decide according to schiff whether he's chair of an independent investigation or a surrogate of the white house. those are remarkably harsh words about his colleague on this key committee. do you think chairman nunes is working for the white house on
this? >> well, don't forget that chairman nunes was part of the transition team and provided advice to -- >> right, a long time ago and now running this investigation. >> i think what we have to underscore here is that this investigation loses all credibility unless he makes a profound apology for what he did and moves forward and speaks about the independence that he's going to show in terms of this investigation. we're an oversight committee. the intelligence committee is oversight. if he was made privy to something, he should have brought it to the committee for our oversight of the agencies that we have authority to observe and to critique. >> congresswoman, nunes said today he felt just the way the timing went today, he got the information, he informed the press, th then he needed to get the white house to inform the president. you don't think that holds water? >> no.
there's no urgency. there was absolutely no urgency to him racing over to the white house. i think this was pure theater. i think in many respects it was probably orchestrated by the white house. president trump -- >> how so, congresswoman? >> well, because i don't believe he just ran over there. i think there was communication between the white house and mr. nunes before he made that trek over there. he announced it to the press. i mean, this has all the stage craft that you might want in a great spy novel pong other tham things. i think the hearing this week was very clear. the republicans were more interested in looking at leaks, and ironically what's the first thing he runs over to the white house with, a leak. i think that we really have got to recognize that there are three equal branches of government -- the legislative branch is one, certainly the intelligence committee has a responsibility to take this responsibility given to us and independently evaluate it, not
run over to the president whenever you get a particular leak, and that's the way it looks. >> congresswoman, what i'm hearing you say is it's kind of done for you. you're not even -- are you even leaning over the possibility this committee can conduct this investigation or do you think the committee because of the chairman's actions has lost all credibility, it's done? >> well, i would say this. unless he takes steps in the next few days to change the direction in which he has been taking this committee, we probably are done. the problem of course is then there is no house investigation. there's only going to be a senate investigation. and i think that would not be good for the american people. >> so the president after being briefed he says he feels somewhat vindicated by what congressman nunes told him. nunes did make cheer the original wiretap claim that the president made is still wrong. but if you allow for the revised white house argument that they now mean the president was
subject of general surveillance, chairman nunes told jake tapper this. >> it does appear like his name and people and others ended up into intelligence reports. so, i mean, look, you can make what you want of it, but, you know, most people would say that is surveillance. >> congresswoman, he's seen these reports. you all have not yet. you haven't seen these reports. do you leave open the possibility at all this could be surveillance of this president, this could in some way vindicate the president? >> you know, i like to look objectively at the facts. i don't have any facts in front of me yet. so until i have that opportunity, until he shares his purloined documents with us, we can't make that assessment. >> congresswoman, what now? so now it sounds like the chairman feels this way, the democratic leader of the committee and you as well feel completely opposite.
are you going to -- what happens now? >> we have a hearing tomorrow on another issue, but i'm sure it's going to come up. we'll probably want to go into some kind oaf executive session to talk about it. it will no doubt be a topic of conversation tomorrow. >> congresswoman jackie speier, thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thanks. "out front" with me now, cnn senior political analyst mark preston and white house correspondent sara murray. geez louise, what a day. mark, if you were sitting at home watching this, you have whiplash right now. what is going on? >> yeah. i would be absolutely confused. i wouldn't really understand what chairman nunes was doing. i might actually believe him if i'm a donald trump supporter, which is exactly what the white house wanted, and honestly, kate, i would be shocked that the white house didn't know about this before chairman nunes went down there to brief donald trump. for him just to get the information just seems too easy. and if that information was out there floating around as he says
it was, you would have to assume it would have made it way to the white house in some form or another before the chairman went down there today. >> and so in that respect, sara, president trump said that he does feel somewhat vindicated by all of this. what are your sources telling you at the white house right now? >> the white house certainly believes this is sort of the beginning of the vindication that they have been insisting all week long would be coming. i spoke to a source earlier this week who said, look, there was an -- there wasn't actual wiretapping but some sort of backdoor surveillance of the president. this seemed to be what they were hinting at. the thing that's perplexing about all of this is we saw congressman nunes come out and say this does not move from any way the president's initial wiretapping claim. but to make it more confusing he also said the president did not seem to know about these intelligence reports in the first place, which gets us back to the initial question of why would the president have put out that wiretapping tweet? so you sort of end up running
around in circles to get the evidence to quote/unquote prove what the president put out initially. >> you kind of say -- we know one thing. the literal wiretap didn't happen. >> right. >> but now what are you dealing with, it seem really unclear. what is also unclear is kind of where this white house is right now, mark. at the very least they seem to be at a fork in the road. you have to republican health care bill, which they're really focused on. that's in trouble. you have more russia clouds circling overhead, and then you have approval ratings. you have this quinnipiac poll showing his approval rating is at 37%, a new low. how does that factor into all this? >> it becomes a smokescreen. what happened on monday was terrible for president trump when you have, you know, two of our top intelligence law enforcement officials going out there and saying that they had seen no evidence that president obama had wiretapped trump tower. now, you're going into tomorrow's vote on health care and it's very much on the edge. we don't even know if the bill
is going to pass and we've seen this time and time again from president trump or his associates, redirect, redirect, redirect, throw up a smokescreen. and that's what appears to have happened right now. if i'm wrong in saying that, it's only because that's the pattern we have seen so far. but it is -- what i found really strange other than a lot of things that chairman nunes -- >> everything that's played out today if. >> right. everything. was this one particular quote. he said about president trump, he need to see what's out there on him and it's up to him to decide whether or not it was a proper collection or not or if it met a threshold. as congressman speier just said, there is a separation of government. there's three branches of government. there's the executive branch, the judicial branch, and the legislative branch. why would the presint be -- why should he get to see information that's being collected potentially to bring a case against him and his associates? >> and why is he the one to determine that? standpoint, the week they're
having, are they concerned about the week that they've had so far? >> i think that's a great question to ask at the end of the night tomorrow. if they can manage to get this health care bill through the house and they can prove that this president real hi is a deal maker and if can get things done amid all the chaos playing out, they'll think it's a very good week. if this health care bill goes down, then you have a week that just looks even crazier and sort of challenges the notion that this is a president who in fact can maneuver washington and can actually get his legislative agenda moving. that is what's at stake tomorrow. >> a big win on a big promise can change momentum. great to see you. thank you. next, new questions about former trump campaign chairman paul manafort and ties to a russian billionaire. tonight the white house can't distance itself from manafort fast enough. and does trump have the votes to pass the health care bill? our guest tonight, a republican
voting no and if the bill passes trump could be a one-term president. and jeanne moos on joe biden on a favorite flashback, which is a bfd. . >> thank you, joe. no matter how the markets change... at t. rowe price... our disciplined approach remains. global markets may be uncertain... but you can feel confident in our investment experience around the world. call us or your advisor... t. rowe price. invest with confidence.
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a russian billionaire to promote the interest of putin's foft around the world. it is a charge manafort denies. tom foreman is out front. >> reporter: the white house was already running away from the president's former campaign manager paul manafort, but now the president's team seems to be in a dead sprint, insisting lawmakers, law enforcement, and officials have all reviewed allegations the russians may have had american help hacking the last election and -- >> seen zero evidence of any collusion between the trump campaign and russian officials, and that's not going to be changed by a former business dealings of a campaign staffer from a decade ago. >> reporter: just a staffer? not according to other prominent republicans during the race. >> nobody should underestimate how much paul manafort did to really help get this campaign to where it is right now. >> reporter: but those business dealings, the press secretary was talking about a new revelation that manafort worked for russian billionaire oleg
alleged to have secretly promoted russian president vladimir putin's agenda with manafort making millions. he says the money was for business consulting. manafort says the work did not involve representing russian political interest. and the white house jumped on the story at dawn. >> take paul at his word he was working on business interests for oleg and it wasn't tied to the russian government. >> reporter: but the president's team must now also prepare for manafort maybe being grilled by the senate intelligence committee over documents purporting to show he made even more money from the pro-russian former president of ukraine. cnn has no independent proof manafort did anything improper, and he denies all the allegations. but listen to senator mark warner talking to erin burnett. >> we know what russia has done to interfere in the electoral process. now we have to see what kind of combination or conversations took place between folks affiliated with the trump campaign and the russians.
>> reporter: and there is manafort's former partner roger stone, also a trump ally. late in the election, stone correctly predicted a dump of hacked information damaging to the democrats. it came from julian assange's wikileaks, and since assange has ties to the russians, critics suggested stone must too. stone called it a flat lie. roger stone, paul manafort, and donald trump were working for the rugs? please. it's tedious and no evidence in the possession of our vaunted intelligence agencies proves this. and indeed there may be nothing to find. that is certainly a possibility. with all of that smoke, lawmakers want to get some of these people right in front of them so they can question them directly and see if there is some fire. kate? >> great question tonight. thanks, tom. "out front" with me now, assistant secretary for the obama administration at homeland
security and jason miller, a senior communications adviser for the trump campaign and communications director for the presidential transition team. thanks for being here. jason, can you say with a straight face that paul manafort in the words of the press secretary played a very limited role for a limited amount of time? >> i'm not going to come on and try to qualify exactly what paul's role was. i think it was pretty obvious in the public what he did. he came on board in spring. he left the campaign in summer. so there was a block of time when he was on board with the campaign. so full stop on that, that he worked for the president for a number of months during last year. now, what he's being attacked on today is work that he did or pitched or proposed doing a decade earlier and has absolutely nothing to do with the president of the united states or his campaign. what we do know is that during this time that we know whether it's mike morrell or james clapper, or senator chris coons or chairman devin nunes, all
these folks have gone through and said there is absolutely no fire behind the smoke, there's any aspect of collusion or anything else. and as you correctly were talking about earlier in the show, what we do know is that the president of the united states was being systematically surveilled this past fall, and i think that's the big story and what's really -- >> i'm not sure we're saying systematically surveilled this fall. >> i would describe it systematically surveilled. absolutely. >> that is to be investigated by the committee, and i will tell you this is all since the election. this was all post the election is what devin nunes says. juliette, from your perspective, this is multiple connections in terms of the stories that are out there now going back to manafort with ties with pro-russian entities. republicans, not democrats, republicans like john mccain, susan collins, this has raised serious concerns for them. from your -- with your background from homeland security, are those concerns founded? >> i think they are and i mean a
couple things. of course there is just the question of why even paul manafort was so quick to deny his ties to russia. i think that's part of the concern is these constant sort of we didn't have anything to do with russia, whatever, and then these stories. even they're 10 years old, i would agree that this is an old story. what i want to say, though, to your viewers is the problem is that these cases of conspiracy and collusion take time to form. this is what comey but telling the public during the hearing. there is not going to be a silver bullet. there is likely not an e-mail between vladimir putin and donald trump saying let's do this for the campaign. nonetheless, there is enough information now to suggest to a person looking at all of these different pieces that on the spectrum of benign behavior and potential conspiracy or collusion we're nowhere near benign anymore. and i think that's the point of comey's willingness to come forward about this investigation and that's where the manafort --
new story about manafort falls in. it's just another piece. it's not going to settle the issue. but to totally ignore it or to deny his relevancy with the campaign is to say, well, i can take each of these pieces and say everything's fine. you're not getting most republicans agreeing with that theory and certainly not getting a lot of democrats. >> jason, the mere fact that the white house is working relatively hard to try to distance themselves from paul manafort on this, where you acknowledge without saying he did have a very big role in the campaign, the fact that they're working and trying to distance themselves from manafort now, does that tell you they are troubled that there could be something there with regard to manafort? >> i don't think so. i think what they're trying to do is set the record straight to put things into proper context. as i said -- >> i'm not saying set it straight. he's had a serious role. he was on trump doing an audio check. i saw it play out. >> we're talking past each other
a little bit here. i'm not trying to qualify his role during that stretch. >> got it. >> i think what the white house and the administration are trying to do is that mr. manafort worked for the campaign for a set amount of time. the issues raised were a decade previously. had nothing to do with the president, nothing in the transition team. mr. manafort had been diskissed well before then. they're trying to put it in the proper context in the amount of time he worked with the campaign. going back to the point here, what mr. manafort's really being attacked on, nobody really cares about mr. manafort. what they're trying to do is trying to attack the president by attacking someone who previously had worked for him. i think that's what's going on here. i think most people can take a look and see that's what the case is. otherwise you wouldn't have clapper or morrell or nunes saying there's no "there" there when it comes to this issue of collusion with russia. another thing, over the past year i spent hundreds of hours around the president and the
campaign team. and never once did i hear this talk about some supposed collusion or coordination or inside knowledge of other people doing other things. so this idea that too many people on the left are trying to cook um, somehow some coordination with a foreign entity, i think that's really disrespectful to the presidency and i think it's damaging for the long term. >> republicans though are concerned a well. juliette, final word on that. >> just quickly, jason said a couple things about clapper and morrell i want to say for the record that's not what they said. the one important thing about the next step is -- and should be of concern to the white house, is that manafort and also flynn are now clearly under some sort of investigation. one of them will talk. and if there is evidence of collusion or cooperation or conspiracy, they will talk about that. and so i think one of the reasons why the trump campaign is sort of not distancing -- not sort of throwing manafort under the bus but sort of -- you know,
they're not even critical of flynn anymore is because they don't know if flynn or manafort is willing to talk to federal investigators about what they know. that's the next step. >> also under investigation -- also under investigation they're going to find out whoever was surveilling the president and i think that person's going to be in a lot of trouble. >> we will be happy to report when all of this develops. great to see you guys. thanks so much. appreciate it. racing against the clock, hours to go before the house vote on republican plans to repeal and replace obamacare and president trump trying to seal the deal with undecided republicans. cnn's web count shows the numbers are not looking good at the moment. 27 house republicans officially on the no side or leaning that way and that is of course more than the gop can afford to lose. phil mattingly is "out front." >> this is the american health care act. >> reporter: house republicans still hope to secure a victory thursday after nearly a decade on obamacare.
they are still scrambling for votes. relying on president trump to close the deal. >> i am so pleased and impressed with donald trump and mike pence who are really leaning into this thing, working hard, talking to members, brokering things, getting it done, leaning into it. >> reporter: but it may not be enough. >> i said that we believe that the best approach is to actually start over. >> reporter: despite a full-court press from the white house and house gop leaders, as it stands, there are 27 house republicans leaning against or outright opposed to the obamacare repeal plan. driven mostly by the conservative house freedom caucus, who despite intense lobbying from president trump and vice president pence insists they have 25 no votes according to an aide. the group met privately thursday over pizza. their efforts were bolstered by two senators, rand paul and ted cruz. both of whom were urging the
members to block the bill. >> what's your message to freedom caucus members who may be considering voting for this? >> that i think principles are important and that often when you feel very strongly that something is not going to work, that that's more important than loyalty to party, frankly. >> reporter: undercutting a delicate balance gop leaders hope to strike, one that can draw enough support from all sides of the party. >> you have to have a bill you can get buy-in from a big tent, wide caucus party, the republican party, that can actually pass what we're putting together. no one gets everything they want. >> reporter: sources tell cnn the behind-the-scenes efforts have gone full bore with white house visits, private calls and texts in a desperate push to flim wary lawmakers. the divide also splitting key outside gop supporters with republican stalwarts including the chamber of chamber of commerce, the national right to life calling for support and conservative groups like heritage action and club for growth urging members to stand against the bill.
those efforts clearly having an effect. house freedom caucus members continue to block any clear path to passage. >> we believe that we need to postpone the vote and get it right. >> and, kate, just a few minutes ago, a potential new development, house leadership telling me they are open to a change in the bill. it would be a change that the house freedom caucus members have been requested, a provision to strip out obamacare's essential health benefits. it hadn't been included up to this point because they were worried it would get through the senate procedural rules. now that is in play. president trump is calling freedom caucus members who are currently meeting privately as well. the speaker is currently meeting privately with other members as well. this appears to be starting to move in the right direction. the question is can they get it done by tomorrow. >> great to see you. thank you. "out front" now, republican congressman from kentucky thomas massi. thanks for the time.
>> thanks for having me on. >> you have been a no vote on the bill. no surprise. according to twitter today you've changed your vote as of this afternoon. >> yes. >> from no to, hell no. please explain. >> well, i thought i would double down. there's a lot of speculation as to whether members are changing their votes right now and i just wanted to let people know that i was steadfastly in the no category. frankly, i think that's indicative of a lot of my colleagues. i've counted 30 conservatives who are voting no on this, and they really aren't changing their position and haven't changed their position in the last 24 hours. >> that's very interesting because you hear a very different message from the white house and from republican leaders right now. the white house saying that the momentum's all in their favor, house speaker paul ryan saying they're adding votes, not losing votes today, and a spokesman for mark meadow who is you know well, the chair of the freedom caucus, is striking a bit of an optimistic tone. a surprising optimistic tone. his spokesman saying we're hopeful we can get something
done and they're working with leaders on it all throughout the night. do you sense the momentum is shifting in speaker ryan's favor? >> let me tell you how the leadership can be right and i can be right at the same time. i told you we've got 30 hard noes that aren't changing. there are more than 30 noes on this and those people just aren't vocal. i witnessed the leadership on the noor working on members of congress that aren't on anybody's list as being no. so they probably got problems that they are fixing that everybody doesn't even know about yet. so they may have switched ten members but not ten members on my list, not two members on my list. >> you still think this bill has no chance or do you think it's changing and does have a chance tomorrow night? >> they're meeting in the rules committee right now upstairs. and they're not going to make any changes in there that are going to change 30 of the freedom caucus or other conservatives like myself from no to yes. like the changes just aren't that drastic.
i think we could get to yes but i think it will take this bill going down tomorrow. they may pull the bill from the floor or they may push it to the floor. if they do, i think it will fail. >> you still think no matter wh the white house and the speaker think they have the momentum, the wind is at their back, you still think they are making it up, they won't get there? >> those are the key words, momentum, wind at their backs. they're not telling you they have the votes because they don't have the votes. they're youing a lot of euphemisms and sounding really optimist optimistic, but i can tell you they're in trouble. >> during the meeting yesterday when president trump visited you all, he warned you voting against this could mean some of you lose your seats and the republicans could lose the majority. do you believe it? >> we're afraid he's a one-term president if this passes. we are trying to save him. the phone calls to my office are running 275 against versus only 4 votes from my constituents who are in favor of this. so this electorally voting for
this is bad today and it's going to be really bad in two or three years when the changes start kicking in and health insurance prices start going through the roof. >> congressman, you also know politically this president is a man that is known to take names. this is a man known to have a long memory for those who go against him. do you fear he'll campaign against you when you vote no on this? >> well, he's been to kentucky, and i'm from kentucky, he was there this week and pence was there the week before. frankly in kentucky the vote against this bill is still the right vote. whether democrats are for no or republicans are, there's no constituency for this bill in kentucky. >> so if this bill fails, you will not blame yourself, of course. you aren't going to place blame on yourself. who are you going to say is to blame? is it paul ryan or is it president trump? >> when president trump took the advice of heritage organization and came up with a good supreme court nominee, he was a hero.
but then when he started taking the advice of paul ryan and lobbyists in washington, d.c., his ratings went down ten points. i hope that's what he sees from this, that we're trying to save him from bad advice and maybe he'll start taking advice from the conservatives again. >> who's to blame if this fails? >> who's to blame? this shouldn't fail. after the bill goes down tomorrow, we can go back to the drawing board and they can bring conservatives to the table instead of just trying to break their kneecaps and twist their arms after the bill is written, and then we can all take the credit for a good bill. >> when it does fail you can come back and tell me who you blame. great to have you. thanks so much. >> thank you. "out front" next, breaking news, new details on the deadly terror attack in london. we'll speak to one man who watched it all unfold. plus, on a much lighter note, jeanne moos on joe biden weese return to capitol hill and why it's such a big "f"-ing deal. >> [ bleep ].
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the death toll rising after a horrific terror attack in the heart of lon on the, the killer plowing into helpless pe des reas -- pe december rans on a crowded bridge. four were killed, 40 treated for gyres. the attacker is also dead. police announcing they believe the attack is islamist related terrorism. nic robertson is "out front" in london. >> reporter: gunfire and chaos in the heart of london. 2:40 in the afternoon. a gray suv crossing the famous westminster bridge heading towards the parliament building. the vehicle suddenly mowing down pedestrians on the bridge, including three police officers. two people were killed here. one woman recovered alive from the thames river below. first responders describe still others with catastrophic injuries. two women crossing the bridge in a bus when they heard the
commotion. >> turned around, saw the car plowed into a lady underneath the wheel and you could hear screams and along the bridge because we were only crawing along the bridge. there was bodies literally -- >> must have been about ten bodies. >> at least 10 or 12 body. >> reporter: the vehicle then crashing into the security gate surrounding parliament. alan perry was on the opposite side of the bridge. >> i was walking along amidst a crowd of people when suddenly i heard this enormous crash and bang. next thing i saw a guy who i assumed to be the driver of the vehicle get out and race away. >> reporter: around the corner, kevin scofield spotted a man on the run. >> i looked to my left and saw a man force his way through a security gate. he went straight for a police officer, wrested him to the ground, and another police officer approached and walked
toward him with arm outstretched carrying a weapon. >> reporter: in the end, an officer was stabbed to death just inside the parliament grounds. police then shot and killed the attacker. this stunning photograph showing a police officer pointing his weapon at someone on the ground, a knife trapped under his right foot. nearby, another photo shows a member of parliament rushing to the aid of one of those injured, london police immediately treating the incident as a terror attack. >> all move back again, please. >> reporter: 2:46, six minutes after the first panicked calls, ambulances and a chopper arrive for wounded. a young doctor was among the first on the scene. >> so we all just went out and helped, got blankets and [ inaudible ] helped them -- >> how do you train for these things? >> not for that. >> reporter: with parliament on lockdown, prime minister theresa
may is hustled into a car and whisked away. at nearby buckingham palace, the queen inside, the gates are quickly locked. now the police are saying they believe they know the identity of the attacker. they say they're investigating his motivation, his associates and his preparation. but as we look at the sheer scale of this attack, so many people injured, i've seen video of the scale of the attack on westminster bridge. and you see people over at least 100 yards, possibly more, the side of the road, the sheer scale of this beginning to sink in, kate. >> absolutely. nic, thank you. "out front" now, the former polish foreign minister radek sikorski joins me now, an eyewitness to this attack. mr. foreign minister, thanks for your time on what is undoubtedly a horrible day for so many. you arrived just second after this all happened on the bridge. we see this video that you took. but can you describe what you
saw and what you heard? >> i was just in a taxi going the other way from the terrorist car that he must have passed us. i looked up when i heard what i took to be a minor collision and then i saw people on the tarmac and on the pavement. and at first i thought, well, a car accident, but then as the taxi moved on, i saw that the victims were spread over some distance. >> you heard it before you saw it. can you describe what you heard? >> it was a sound of a car hitting -- to me it sounded like a sheet of metal. so it sounded like a minor traffic collision. >> what injuries did you see or could you gather from the car that you were in? >> obviously, i was some
distance away, but i saw one gentleman bleeding heavily from his head. he was already being helped. people had already rush to help. so i thought i'd better warn others that there is something dangerous happening in the area. >> police saying that ear investigating this as terrorism right now. was that your first thought when you came up on this? >> not at first. at first i thought it must be an accident but when i saw the victims spread out over distance of 100 yards or so, then of course nice and berlin came to mind. >> foreign minister, thank you for your time. >> pleasure. >> "out front" with me now, a terrorism analyst with me here. paul, you've been watching this throughout the day. now that we're hearing from police, they're, calling this islamic related terrorism. >> it has all the hallmarks of
an isis-inspired attack. we've seen vehicle attacks from is isis-inspired and linked attackers in nice, france, last july 6, one in ohio state in november in the united states. fortunately no one but killed but that attack, the perpetrator drove a car into people and got out and tried to stab people but was shot dead by a cop. the m.o. in the berlin attack, that was a tunisian extremist who perpetrated that who was in touch with isis in libya. this is very much the kind of attack they're calling for? >> why? what do you know? because it's easy to do? >> exactly. and it's very difficult to get hold of weapons in europe even more difficult in great britain, just very hard. and so what they're doing is saying well here's another option for you to carry out mass casualty events, get a car or a
truck. >> does it surprise you there isn't a claim of responsibility? >> i think it's early days yet. it would surprise me if there's no claim of responsibility by this time tomorrow. they sometimes take a little bit of time. what they tell these perpetrators it's almost as important to launch the attack as it is to help isis claim ownership. very important for them to sort of claim allegiance to baghdadi on social media or upload videos -- >> right before they go -- >> so we could see that come out. >> thank you, paul. horrific tonight. on a much lighter note, jeanne moos is. >> john:ing us with joe biden remembering hi bfd moment. >> thank god my mother wasn't around when that comment was picked up years ago. announcer: get on your feet for the nastiest bull in the state of texas. ♪
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obamacare and his vp gushed praise. >> i've gotten you well enough, you want me to stop because i'm embarrassing you. >> reporter: the embarrassing part was still to come. >> t-minus ten. >> reporter: as joe biden dropped the f bomb. >> three, two, one. >> reporter: that big bleeping deal became known as a bfd. and the former vice president is reminiscing fondly. >> what happened is one of you guys were able to read lips. i was looking this way. thank god my mother wasn't around when that comment was picked up years ago. >> reporter: back then we called it the curse of biden. very few of our favorite biden bloopers actually contain curses. they range from miscounting. >> a three-letter word -- jobs. j-o-b-s, jobs. >> reporter: to prematurely personal retirement accountsing the death of the irish prime
minister's mother. >> god rest her soul although -- wait, your mom's still alive. your dad passed. god bless her soul. >> reporter: he said this to a politician in a wheelchair. >> stand up, chuck. let him see you. oh, god love you. what am i talking about? >> reporter: but joe usually managed a good recovery. >> stand up for chuck. >> reporter: now instead of bidenisms, we have trumpisms. >> nobody knew that health care could be so complicated. >> reporter: joe biden did. joe may occasionally miss the mark, but, hey, we miss that. moez m moez mjeanne moos, cnn, new yor. >> thank you, joe. >> oh, my goodness. >> we'll be right back. you have access to in-depth analysis, level 2 data, and a team of experienced traders ready to help you if you need it. ♪ ♪ it's like having the power of a trading floor, wherever you are.
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at ac 360" begins right now. >> we've learned more about the investigation in the links between trump campaign and russian government. those who broke the story join us. pam, what are you learning? >> the fbi has information that indicates associates of president donald trump communicated with suspected russian operatives to possibly coordinate the release of information damaging to hillary clinton's campaign u.s. officials told us. fbi director james comey made his bombshell announcement monday before congress that the fbi is investigating the trump campaign's ties to russia. so the