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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  April 16, 2017 7:00am-8:01am PDT

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this is gps, the global public square. welcome to you in the united states and around the world, i'm fareed zakaria. we'll begin the show with talk of thermal nuclear war. that is what the north says the korean peninsula may be on the brink of. they say the person responsible is president trump. what should he do now? is it possible to tamp down the tempers there? that and much more with a terrific panel. then, president trump and coal. >> get ready. you are going to be working your
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asses off. >> trump thinks coal is coming ba back. it isn't and i'll tell you why. >> the turks are going to the polls sunday to decide whether they want their president to be almost all powerful. will he get what he wants and potentially be in office until 2029? and, next weekend, france votes on a new president and the french envoy to america breaks tradition and risks his job by blasting the woman who could win that election. the ambassador explains to me why he's speaking out. finally, why london has created a big debate in china. i'll explain. first, here is my take. i didn't really believe there was such a thing as trump derangement syndrome, hate red of donald trump so intense it
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impairs people's judgment. not that i didn't notice the harsh, unyielding language against trump. i have said a few things myself. trump seemed to do thing that is justified it. once elected, instead of calming down and acting presidential, he continued the stream of actions and lies. seemed marked by chaos and incompetence, then the strike on syria. on that issue, trump appears to have listened to security professionals, reversed the earlier position and chosen a calibrated response and acted swiftly. i supported the strike and pointed out in print and on air that trump was being presidential because the action, quote, seemed to reflect a belated recognition from trump that he cannot simply put america first, that the president of the united states must act on behalf of broader interest and ideals. on the whole, i was critical of
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his syria policy, describing itd as incoherent. from the response on the left, you would have thought i endorsed donald trump for pope. columnists describe my view as nonsense. one declared on television, if this guy could have sex with a cruise missile attack, i think he would do it. a gaggle of speech writers said how my comments were the stupidest of any on the planet. white house speech writers must have written the lines barack obama spoke on september 27, 2013, announcing the u.n. deal, in which the syrian regime agreed to give up its chemical weapons stockpile. >> this binding resolution will assume the assad regime must keep its commitments or face consequences. we'll have to be individual lent in following through. >> in other words, trump watched the violation and enforced it in
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the manner obama implied, which is why every major obama policy official from hillary clinton to thomas to leon panetta to david petraeus supported the region and beyond. the strikes were discreet, measured, intended to convey a signal and designed to ensure the u.s. did not descend further into the syrian civil war. they were very obama-like. two senior obama officials i spoke with told me were barack obama still president, he would have likely ordered a strike similar, if not identical in scope. presumably the former speech writers would have used different words to describe the same strike. conservatives understand trump's about face more than liberals. they are distraught by his embrace of obama's policies.
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andrew mccarthy whot, when it came to foreign policy, i was worried the 2016 election would be clinton delivering the third obama term. instead we have trump giving us the third clinton term. liberals have to be careful to avoid trump derangement syndrome. if trump uses a policy, it cannot be wrong, evil and dangerous. in my case, i have been tough on donald trump. i attacked almost every policy he proposed during the campaign. a week before the election, i called him a cancer on american policy and urged voters to reject him, but they didn't. he is now president. i believe my job is to evaluate his policies and explain why, in my view, they are wise or not. many of trump's campaign promises and policies are idiotic and unworkable. it was always likely he would reverse them as he has begun to do this week on several fronts. those of us who oppose him face
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a challenge. we have to ask ourselves, would we rather see trump reversing himself or relentlessly pursuing his agenda? the first option would be good for the country and the world. though it might save trump from a form. the second would be a disaster for all. it raises the quandary, do we want what's better for america or what's worse for donald trump? for more, go to and read my post this week. lelt's get started. let's get straight to north korea's worning that, quote, thermal nuclear war may break out any moment on the peninsula, end quote. david was a speech writer for
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gg george w. bush. he is now a cnn global affairs analyst. you worked with george w. bush's national security council, edited a book with defense secretary mattis and now at the hoover institution. david, what do you make after having promised to call china currency manipulation from day one, it is not. i said nato is obsolete, it is not obsolete and now getting involved in syria. >> he might have been an anti -- the united states is steering for one after another confrontation and steering alone. if you knew you were heading for a confrontation, you would not begin by cannesling the transpacific partnership and burning every friend you have. in syria, you do not start this
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without your partner. the united states is alone, alone, alone. that is the theme of the trump foreign policy. >> cory, what do you think? >> for korea, the concerning problem is you can't take a policy harder line than the south korean government is willing to take. it parallels the berlin crisis. you can't go further than our allies. i don't think the trump administration has yet acknowledged that to the extent they should. vice president pence's trip to the region may help that. >> on china, he reversed himself on nato he reversed himself. >> fareed, i think instead of building a wall, the president is running into a wall. that's called reality. we have seen reversals on a number of issues. i think he's doing more the right thing than the wrong thing. david is right, there's a disdain from alliances, but even on that he's coming around.
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he said the right thing about nato. he's trying to work with china on north korea rather than around them. we should commend it where we can. but, on north korea, in particular, this is the number one dilemma. north korea is racing to the point where they have a ballistic missile and hit the united states in the hands of a leader who acts impulsively and irrationally. this is the most urgent priority for the president in getting this right. >> tell me, when you were handling this issue, is it not fair to say when you talked to the chinese about it, they have a reasonable perspective? they say look, this is right next door to us. it's a bankrupt regime, the regime could collapse, we would have millions of refugees, a korean unification on south korean terms and we face a unified korea on south korean terms with 30,000 american
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troops and treaty alliance with america and nuclear bombs. why do that? >> you laid out china's case. it's the same the president laid out for president trump when they met. here is the thing. china fears instability on the peninsula for the reasons you cited. they need to do something about it. what we made clear to china, we started doing it during the obama administration is north korea is a core interest of the united states. taiwan is. north korea and the danger it represents is core to us. ideally, we work the china, put pressure on north korea to get it to the table to negotiate. failing or trying to do that, we have to take steps to protect ourselves and allies. probably more sanctions including, perhaps, chinese doing business with north korea. none of this is directed at china, but china is not going to
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like it. it could be incentive for china to get strong on north korea. >> what do we do about south korea? they are terrified of the peninsula, 30 miles or 35 miles from the north korean border. most of south korean's population live in a striking range of missiles and worry about a collapse. they point out north korea is many times larger than east germany and many times poorer. >> i think that's right. the south koreans are anxious about their vulnerability to hardened artillery sites launching across the dmc and they are right to be concerned about that. i think the chinese case for the north korea policy shouldn't be accepted. there are a lot of variables treated as fixed.
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if the north korean regime were to collapse, the united states could reassure the chinese that first of all, we wouldn't send troops north and second of all, if south korea isn't threatened by them, you could remove american troops from the korean peninsula. there are lots of things we could make variables in this that is chinese are treating. >> denuclearize. >> absolutely. we unilaterally denuclearize south korea. the north koreans ramped up their threat as a result of that. >> you said be patient. >> be patient. i don't understand why the united states is talking so much or so loud. as dangerous as they are, in the end, they need money. this is not a strategic calculation. this is a blackmail operation. it's like a hostage taking. as the cops say, they go home to a hot dinner and warm bed. they have time. you do not, if you are the
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police, you do not shoot first. you don't commit suicide for fear of death. this is one to wait out. >> we will be back in a moment and we are going to talk about the dropping of the mother of all bombs in afghanistan. was it a trump stunt or something more serious. the average family's new, but old, home: it stood up to 2 rookies, 3 terrible two's, and a one-coat wonder named "grams". it survived multiple personalities,
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that's why i rent from national. where i get the control to choose any car in the aisle i want, not some car they choose for me. which makes me one smooth operator. ah! still a little tender. (vo) go national. go like a pro. we are back with david and tony. tony, from all you can tell, was this mother of all bombs intended as a signal outside afghanistan? >> it is probably the wrong signal. the bomb they used, i defer to the military experts and have to trust their judgment is designed to take out things at the
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surface or very, very, very shallow tunnels. if you are going after north korea or iran, that's not the missile you use. there's a massive ordinance pen traitor or m.o.p. this is a different weapon. if that's the message they are trying to send, that's not the message. >> trump uses the wrong acronym and the pentagon uses the wrong bomb. what about the fact it might have reminded a lot of americans, 16 years later, we are still in afghanistan. we are still fighting -- every time we withdrawal from an area, the taliban returns. what do we do? >> well, donald trump has promised he will fight wars and win them. the united states has had a long run of inconclusive wars. that's one of the reasons he won the republican nomination. nobody would talk about iraq. we are going to renominate jeb bush, the brother of the man who
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opened this trauma the party never discussed. donald trump talked about it. now he's embarked on an open-ended conflict. there's no plan that one can see. it is -- it is interesting, how does he psychologically cope with the commitments he's urnds taking on behalf of us all? >> we have the missile strike. i applauded that, it's the right thing to do but it's in search of a strategy. how do you use that to leverage that to bring the civil war to an end? those are the kinds of strategies, the kind of deliberations they need to have in advance of taking action so there's a game plan to follow through. that's what we need to look for. >> you need to be careful of applauding something, even if it aligns with values. >> if it were a good foreign policy, donald trump would not
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be doing it. even if you like the strike, the fact there was no process or deliberation, there's no interagency process, there's no deputies meetings, it seems to have been done fitfully and impulsively and with no answer to the question. what do you do the next day? i think when you talk about normalizing, it's not just a moral objection. the reason it's dangerous is it leads you to make bad assessments. this is random and fitful. it's not true. >> could he do anything that would change your mind? >> he's him. he's never going to stop being him or become some other person. you cannot build the united states government in such a way that the people around the president control the president. unless he's an invalid, not even then. he will be the center of the turning point. if the president and secretary of defense have a disagreement, the president must resign, that's not what happens. >> there is this, as i
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described, two parts to the trump administration, the freedom show, which is donald trump, then there's mattis, mcmaster, tillerson, they are serious people, they are heavyweights. they believe in process. they believe in thoughtful reflection. on the record, they have said mostly sensible things. what is going to happen. will the freak show win or the grown ups win? >> i agree with david, the fundamental challenge is that the president is undisciplined and erratic in his choices. the dlib rative men of the trump administration can put good processes in place. i think the strike on syria, they thought their way through, where do the courses take us. in the american political system, you cannot protect against the president's influence. three things, you need three things, people, process, policy.
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they are things the president has shown a disdain for. if he can get the right people in. they have not filled the ranks of government. if they have a process and can develop policies, some may not survive first contact, but give a place to start, this can be at a better place. then the achilles heel is this, credibility. we are in an information war with russia and syria over this strike. syria and russia are trying to declaim responsibility for it. false narratives. unfortunately, as the president is tweeting in tweets that are diverse, that undermines his credibility at a time we need it. this is a president's most valuable currency, his credibility. and unfortunately, if president trump continues on that course, is going to default on it. >> he can hire the best people in the world. if they appear on the cover of "time" magazine, their career is over. >> the one person who has is
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steve bannon. all right, thank you. fascinating conversation. next on gps, king cole once powered america. donald trump says he's bripging coal back. he can't do that. hey ron! they're finally taking down that schwab billboard. oh, not so fast, carl. ♪ oh no. schwab, again? index investing for that low? that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard. what's next, no minimums? minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management.
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but we've got the get tdigital tools to help. now with xfinity's my account, you can figure things out easily, so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to now for our what the in the world segment.
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kell come to kentucky. population here deep in the heart of coal country, 500. it has a coal miners heart and the kentucky coal mining museum. soon, there will be solar panels on the roof of the museum to power it in the town where king coal ruled for hundreds of years. it is a sign of the time. for decades, king coal was the primary energy source for the united states. since 2000, coal has been on a steady decline. so much so that in 2016 cheap and abundant natural gas surpassed coal for the energy in the u.s. renewables like wind, solar, geo thermal and hydroelectric have been on the rise and supply 10% of u.s. energy needs. coal mining jobs have become an endangered species. at the peak in 1993, the coal
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industry employed almost 7,500 miners. thanks to efficiency they have been on a sharp decline. by 1980, the total dropped to 225,000. in 2015, the number of coal miners employed in the united states was down to 66,000. contrast that with the solar industry, which employed 260,000 people in 2016, a 25% increase over the 2015 numbers. what is behind the fall of coal and the rise of the western u.s.? it's simple economics. coal is more expensive than alternatives. the big natural gas boom in the u.s. have put the squeeze on the demand for coal. then, there is the pollution problem. kargt the union of concerned scientists, the top source is
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the primary cause of global warming. 23% of all greenhouse gas emissions in the u.s. come from power plants that use coal. president trump thinks he's going to reverse coal. at the end of march, president trump traveled to the e.p.a. to sign an executive order to create energy independence. in a single stroke, he wrote back obama era emissions. the claim, eliminating those regulations would bring jobs back to the coal mining industry. i guess he's trying to make good on a campaign stop where he told coal miners -- >> get ready because you are going to be working yor asses off. >> coal is not going to come roaring back nor will the jobs. coal plants are closing in record numbers. until the economic exchange, the number of power plants using
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coal will keep falling. why is trump so stuck on coal? well, according to a report from npr, the answer may lie in the state's where all the sew lor jobs have been created. the top six states generating the most solar industry all voted for hillary clinton. the states with the fewest solar jobs went for trump, including three key states, michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, which flipped from democrat to republican in 2016. in any event, the revival of coal is one more false promise and fake prediction from trump that just isn't going to happen. next on gps, one nation's president asked his people to allow him to be in office until 2029. turkey's people are voting on it this weekend. we will dig into it on what is going on, when we come back.
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turks are going to the polls on sunday for what one scholar
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called in the "washington post" the most consequential referendum in modern turkish history. that's not hyperbole. it would change them to a presidential system. the current strong man of turkey. since the attempted cue that captivated the world, he consolidated power. this would be the cull mononation of the process. if passed, it would abolish the prime minister, defend parliament, give the president powers to appoint supreme court judges and dissolve parliament. he would even have the opportunity to extend his term in office until 2029. one of the finals joins me now to discuss. a new book called "the islamic
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jesus." pleasure to have you on. >> pleasure to be on the show. >> it does seem as though this referendum, basically undermines the liberal part of liberal democracy, gets rid of the checks and balances on the executive and gives everyone, in particular, this authority. how dangerous is it? >> it is dangerous, fareed. turkey has fallen into a probe that you rightly identified many years ago in a liberal democracy. ballots rule in turkey. whoever wins gets the president. other aspects of liberal democracy, such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of dissent and separation of power is being undermined. if this amendment passes, it will be further on their mind, in my view. >> a lot of people have said, if it fails, it will also plunge
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the country into crisis because the president will not react kindly to the failure of this. this has been his pet project for years now. >> that is true. whatever comes out, turkey will not be able to build democracy anytime soon, in my view. this is happening at the context of a political war in turkey. supporters of the president think he's the man to save turkey after a century of being in the wilderness, he's making turkey great again, there are enemies and we should rally behind him. the other half of the country thinks he's threatening them. that very poisonous polarization is here with us to stay. whatever comes out, he will not solve that problem. >> you are teaching at welsly. i presume it is difficult to be as outspoken in turkey today. >> it has to be -- you have to
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be careful about what you are saying. one aspect of the ruling is psychology is paranoia. everything you say against the government can be taken as a sign of a conspiracy, part of a plot, a pawn of powers. conspiracy theories to this drive in turkey. yes, everybody in turkey who is critical has to watch its language. that's a fact of life we have to see and accept. >> fascinating case of dissent of democracy. to me, the most interesting thing about this book is that what you are trying to remind people is that islam, unusually or surprisingly, in a sense, has a very special place in its cannon for jesus. >> indeed, fareed. today, people think there are clashes in the world today. in this book, i wanted to look
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at the theology. there are interesting bridges. i mean, jesus, as a figure, so high highly revered in islam. mary is the most praised woman in scripture. jesus is the prophet of god, messiah, the word of god, very powerful words, if you know christian theology. in my book, i wanted to highlight the muslim image of jesus. and those who found themselves as hair sis and similar to islam. it is something that puzzled scholars and thi lonlg ans for centuries. >> historians say why were there jews and christians in the muslim middle east to begin with. obviously, there had to be a hospitable place for them to be. >> exactly.
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one thipg i highlight in the book is a message at the end, what jesus can teach muslims today. theology about jesus is one thing. the teachings of jesus to fellow jews is a message that is valid for every religion. he reminded the fair sis, for example, of his time that one should not be just drawn into the literalism, blind obedience of law and try to see the moral purposes behind that. i think that's a message that muslims need today. in the book, i highlighted differences and similarities theologically and said the teachings of jesus is something muslim's should look at to find change and reform. >> on turkey and islam. pleasure to have you on. >> thank you so much, fareed. it's a pleasure. next on gps, rather
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undiplymatically criticized the presidency saying a win would be a total disaster. that ambassador will join me to explain when we come back. what if technology gave us the power to turn this enemy into an ally? microsoft and its partners are using smart traps to capture mosquitoes and sequence their dna to fight disease. there are over 100 million pieces of dna in every sample. with the microsoft cloud, we can analyze the data faster than ever before. if we can detect new viruses before they spread, we may someday prevent outbreaks before they begin.
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next sunday, the people of france will go to the polls to elect a new president. it's a crucial test in the wake of brexit and the race has been sometimes brutal and always hotly contested. if you turned on the tv in france, you might have thought you were watching a rerun of an american primary campaign debate. the spectacle lasted four hours, nine men and two women. yes, that is 11 candidates for france's presidency. one of the two women was the daughter of a long time leader, racist national front party. he took over the party six years
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ago and carried on many of her father's policies. she dropped some of the racism and anti element. she recently polled essentially tied for first place with sen tryst candidate. france said it would be a total disaster if she won. i asked him into the studio to explain why he broke diplomatic tradition to say such a pointed thing. >> ambassador, pleasure to have you on. >> nice to meet you. >> you have been remarkably outspoken on the dangers of her becoming president. let me ask you simply, you are a french diplomat. what would happen if she were to become president? >> actually, there is a real debate, i guess, among the french diplomats.
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my colleague, the ambassador in tokyo said i won't serve her if she is elected. for us, you know, the diplomats, all our career has been dedicated to explain france to them and especially we have a commitment to the european union. european policy is not a policy among other policies. it's a choice. it's a choice for democracy. my country has been invaded three times, two world wars. the lesson has been, we want to build a united euro. if she is elected, she will take france out of the european union. it is not any policy, it is a change of our society. i do believe that we, the diplomats, we have a right to say what we think. >> what do you think explains the rise of le pen and the right wing populism you are seeing
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throughout europe? >> it's for europe and the u.s. for the first time in my life, i see the political life in this country and in europe, the political lives are compatible. we have the same anti-establishment mood. they are telling the elites, you didn't deliver for us, so i want to toss the table. it's exactly the same rebellion, which means we have also to answer, you know, to their concerns. what is it mean, free trade. really, is it possible to have a free trade, which is citizen friendly? a lot of questions, globalization. a lot of it is immigration. >> and there is the question of immigration. in a sense of globalization, really, it means goods but also the people are traveling. >> france has had a particularly complicated relationship with
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this. it's taken in lots of people from algeria, morocco and found it hard to assimilate them. is that going better? worse? how would you describe france's struggled with assimilation? >> in terms of members, we have the first muslim community basically between 8% and 9% of the population. which means we have some neighborhoods which are fundamentally muslim. in these neighborhoods, you have french people or organizations which are testing us. you know, they come to us and say we want a women's only day in the swimming pools or we don't want male doctors taking care of female patients or i don't want my girl, my daughter to go to the gym. we have all these questions and we have to face them, we have to answer to them. >> you tend to be pretty tough on these issues.
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you believe france should defend its concept of seculars and liberalism and not give in to these demands. >> yes. the fact is, in france, religion is a private issue. you know, so you shouldn't bring religion into the public space. that's what some muslims are trying to do. >> do you think that when you look at brexit, does it mark, in your mind, a kind of catastrophic failure of the european union? does it mark an unraveling? how do you see it? >> it's a figure. to think about the european union between our british friends, it's sad. on the front page it was written, we miss the british. it's a failure. it's a lose/lose situation. >> you don't think britain leaving is the cause of others
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leaving europe? >> nowadays, i can't tell you. i can't answer. if i were asked before whether madam le pen would have been elected in france, i would say never. but after what happened here, i'm obliged to say she may be elected and win the elections in france. she said clearly she wants france out of the eu. frankly, it's not bragging, but if france is out of the eu, it's the end of the eu and the end of the euro zone. >> do you think this is rattling the doors of the french elite? >> of course. really, they are -- the people are telling us, you didn't deliver for us. the elites, they are voting against us. that's something extremely important. you know, really, let's say she is elected, we have five years
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to responds to the concerns, to show that the french elite or the french political system is responding. if he fails, she will be elected in five years. >> on that alarming note, a pleasure to have you on. >> thank you very much. next on gps, london bridges in arizona, but london's tower bridge is now in china, at least a copy of it is. it is the centerpiece of a big debate. we'll explain when we come back. "now my boyfriend wants to talk on sundays. just so many words." your boyfriend's got it bad. maybe think about being single until the start of the season. we believe in food that's anaturally beautiful,, fresh and nutritious. so there are no artificial colors, no artificial flavors, no artificial preservatives in any of the food we sell. we believe in real food. whole foods market.
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in my johnsonville commercial we open up in the forest. hi. i'm jeff. i'm eating my breakfast and all of a sudden a raccoon come up and ask me, "what are you eating?" i told him "johnsonville breakfast sausage, fully cooked." porcupine comes in and he says, "does that come in patties?" i said "yup" wolf comes in and says, "how'd you learn to talk to animals?" and i said "books" and we had a good laugh about that. [laughter] that's a commercial made the johnsonville way.
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there has been much criticism of donald trump's budget cuts to federal agencies,
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tasks with protecting the environment. another country recently announced drastic cuts to our environmental protection, which could have dire consequences. it brings me to my question, which of the following countries announced they would cut their budget by more than half? indonesia, brazil, russia or mexico? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. go to cnn/fareed and respond to our daily newsletter. you will get insight and analysis about the world's most important events in your inbox, daily. this week's book of the week is superb. derek thompson's hit maker, "the science of popularity in an age of distraction." why do some ideas, products, songs succeed and others fail? why is the mona lisa so famous.
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why is taylor swift so popular? if you like malcolm gladwell, you will like derek thompson. buy this book. now, for the last look, london's tower bridge, the bridge spanning the river is hard to mistake. take a look at these pictures. these are not the banks of the towns and that is not london's tower bridge. this was completed in this century and double the towers, located more than 5,000 miles away from london in china. "the new york times" pointed out the bridge revitalized debate over china's recreation of foreign lands marks. there are many arcs, eiffel tower, white houses and capital buildings within china's borders. a sydney bridge, opera house, roman coliseum and entire
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austrian village among others. not everyone is a fan of this bizarre architecture. though the times points out some officials may believe these buildings suggest high status. after the president's visit to the united states, it is only a matter of time before dwopers in china build the next copy of mar-a-lago. if they want to tweet the president of the united states, make sure the chinese version is bigger. the challenge question is b, the brazilian government led by michelle after the impeachment of the president announced the federal environmental budget would be slashed by more than 50%, part of sweeping budget cuts. it could make the regulations particularly difficult at a time forest clearance is spiking after years of progress. a driving force behind
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deforestization is brazil's meat industry, cutting down rain forests to make room for cattle raising and reducing the ability to absorb them. thanks for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. good morning. happy easter sunday and happy passover. this is "reliable sources" a look at the story behind the story and how the media really works and how the news gets made. ahead, dan rather talking about the white house press secretary's sloppiness and how the news media is covering trump's military action and the latest on bill o'reilly with observers wondering if his spring break vacation will become permanent. later, someone i want to introduce you to, a banker turned photographer crisscrossing the country,