tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 25, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
thanks so much for joining us, don't forget you can watch "out front" any time anywhere just go to cnn go. good evening, there's a lot happening this hour, the white house is now saying they cannot be sure former national security advisor michael flynn did not break the law concerning his conversations with russia. we have a lot of reporting ahead on that tonight, but we begin with the story that is just breaking, another loss for president trump, courtesy of a federal judge. a judge this time in california has blocked part of the president's executive order on immigration, the part that threatened to take away federal money from so-called sanctuary cities, this will potentially affect hundreds of cities across the nation that have polities
that limited their -- chicago won't hold back city services depending on citizenship and so on. the president's executive order on immigration had ordered homeland security and the justice department to keep federal money away from those with those policies. but tonight a federal judge has blocked those late tonight. what exactly does the ruling say? >> reporter: as you said, anderson, it's a nationwide halt -- the federal judge in northern california, he is an obama appointee and he did say that san francisco and santa clara's claims that this portion of the executive order was unconstitutional, and he said that it had merit. this ruling actually looked a lot like the ruling halting the travel ban and the judge's words in this case were reminisce sent as well. he pointed to the president's own words writing in this
ruling, if this was any duty about the scope of the order, the president and attorney general have erased it with their public comments. the president has called it a weapon to use against jurisdictions that disagree with his prerferred policies. and his press secretary has reiterated that the president intends to ensure that counties and ore institutions remain sanctuary. this judge in california doing something similar, halting this sanctuary city executive order. >> has the department of justice responded? >> the doj did just respond and their response actually dealt les with this ruling and more with their contention that the federal government can prohibit cities from withholding information from immigration officials, the doj putting it this way in part saying the department of justice previously stated to the court and reiterates now that it will
follow the law with respect to regulation of sanctuary cities jurisdiction. >> and the san francisco city attorney just held a press conference, what did he say? >> he did not hold back. the san francisco city attorney said that the president was bullying in signing this executive order and he praised the judge in this case. >> this is why we have courts to halt the overreach of a president and attorney general who either don't understand the constitution, or choose to ignore it. this is why san francisco had to stand up on behalf of people everywhere. be they immigrants or native born. as americans, we all have a duty to confront injustice even when it emanates from the white house. >> reporter: so the city attorney with very strong words there, he also said that the trump administration would be
better advised to move on to other issues and he told the trump administration to stop targeting these immigrant communities. >> jim acosta joins us from the white house, has there been reaction from the white house, jim? >> this just came in a few minutes ago, the white house chief of staff reince priebus told us a few minutes ago. it says the ninth sir kuwait, this is an example of the ninth circuit going bananas, we will appeal this. he also called this an example of forearm shopping, saying that they were frying to find the most hospitalal section of the american justice system to take care of this and it was absurd that the administration could not put -- along with other
reporters here at the white house. anderson, i talked to a senior administration official earlier today who said they believe they will prevail in all this, but keep in mind, this is the second time that the trump administration that president donald trump is seeing one of his main executive orders aimed at immigration tied up in the courts, it was earlier in this administration, in the early days of this administration, you'll recall that travel ban was frozen in the courts and so once again, the president trying to use his powers as president of the united states, or executive order to do things he can't get accomplished up on capitol hill and the court stepping in and stopping him and it's not the only loss on the immigration front today, anderson, republicans on up capitol hill are trying to draft legislation to avert a government shutdown at the end of the week, in that legislation, there's no mention of border wall funding, there's another loss for the president. the white house appears to be taking this compromise of just
accepting border security money and essentially delaying this promise that the president made out on the campaign trail, so on a few different fronts, some big losses, big set backs from the president on immigration. >> particularly in a week coming up to the 100-day mark to rack up as many accomplishments as they k jo. >> it was a great day for our constitution, it think it shows that unconstitutional threats again cities cannot take away our rights and they can't steal our tax dollars, this was a day that i hope that everyone sees that the hard work of fixing a broken administration should be the scapegoat. this was not the ninth circuit going bananas, the words of chief justice roberts being echoed back that the 10th amendment is something sacred and you can't put a fiscal gun to the heads of cities and
threaten to take away our tax dollars because you don't like the way we do business. >> is it clear that this is what the administration defines as a sanctuary city in the purpose of their executive order or is that clear? >> no, it's been very unclear to us, it's more of a political term than a meaningful one. today my colleaguings had a quite productive meeting in washington with attorney general sessions where he said it was a very narrow definition that we're talking about, so it kind of underscores that is in the about politics more than people. and we need to get to the business of making sure that we fix our immigration laws, make more americans, make more citizens, and not more scapegoats. >> it seems like the department of justice is making a much more narrow definition of what they
expect an executive order to impact and the white house and president trump is making it sound like it's much broader, but the department of justice is actually arguing, is seen as much more more focused. >> it's still a witch hunt, to be defined, crime is lower, unemployment is lower, there's a lot of success and i have listened to our police chiefs and they have said this is the way to keep our cities safe and our tax dollars can't be just willie nilly taken away. >> and your argument for why this makes your city safer is that it encourages people who are undocumented to report crimes, it makes them feel comfortable that they can approach the police and not fear for their own status, is that right? >> absolutely, unless we watch
too many playing dramas, it comes from relationships and people who trust them, it comes from the grandmother who says hey, maybe you should talk to that person down the street or i witnessed something or here's the clue thatty need. and that's why we have had some of the safest years in our cities. and we won't break that trust. >> is there some middle ground to be found here between cities like yourself that don't want the police to be turned into immigration enforcement and what the department of justice wants? >> absolutely and it's well known that we don't -- we have to go to judges to get probable cause requests honored by judges as the los angeles police department and i should have to do the same. so it isn't just on the suspicion of somebody looking the wrong way, or having something in their past.
i also think the other common ground for president trump and for others to do what past presidents like ronald reagan have done, to have a bipartisan consensus, to figure out a way to fix this broken immigration system and to find a pathway for the 2 million people in my region and the 2 million people in this country to fulfill their american dreams rather than being pushed into the schhadows. it makes our streets les safe, if somebody doesn't report that ra rapist, the next person may or may not be undocumented. i hope that the administration and american cities can work together to get to the matter of fixing this problem of immigration and make our cities safer again. >> got to take a quick break, we're going to bring in the panel when we come back, we're also going to hear what sean spicer had to say about
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well the breaking news tonight, a federal judge has blocked nationwide mart of trump's executive order on immigration, the part that's blocked is keeping money away from so-called sanctuary cities. today at the white house, sean spicer was talking about the sanctuary city kpek give order. >> all told, he has signed 136 pieces of legislation, and he's made significant progress.
the president promised to enforce our nation's borders, the attorney general and immigration authorities have been working around the clock to fulfill that promise. >> just hours after he said that, a federal judge in california blocked that part of the executive order, joining me on the panel tonight is kirsten powers, amanda coats and elizabeth foley. it certainly feels lot set back for president donald trump in terms of his first 100 days, that sean spicer was touting as one of the accomplishments. >> this was one of the executive orders when he did his spate of executive orders around the travel ban, which means it was not vetted in much the same way that the travel ban was not vetted. these are sort of basic almost constitutional 101 things that probably if he had had more people with expertise poring over this may have addressed that. so i think the basic one is the
separation of power, and this is a power that actually belongs to the congress, so this is not something that the president can do as an executive order, congress would have to pass some sort of law before he could do something like this. >> matt, it's also much more limited, the president announced this great fanfare as executive order, he made it sound like all federal funds would be stopped to these cities. basically it's going to be three grants and the judge said, you can almost under the terms of those grants, you can limit the funding of those grants, so the judge didn't buy the notion that all freshman funding would be stopped. >> i think it's technical and detailed and this will be litigated but i think the large ever question is where i'm with donald trump and i think the american people are, i mean, number one, the federal government decides and sets immigration law, number two,
these cities are unilaterally deciding not to enforce federal law. number three, president trump is dully elegislated and has the authority to implement executive orders that deal with the implementation of federal law. i think it's perfectly reasonable for the federal government to withhold funds from cities and counties that are not following the rule of law and are not complying with federal law. >> what do you think about that? >> it's not unit lateral, there's a 10th amendment that says -- also the supreme court in 2012 with the issue of an obama care medicare expansion said, listen, you cannot condition federal funding in a coercive way, that it's akin to placing a gun to the head of these states. s they're siaying now we're
changing our minds on rules that were not required when you took the money. it comes down to the 10th amendment and the one that you saw them using as a weapon, it's a nod to the very conservative g gusses that said you can not do this. >> this is basically constitutional law 101, as kirsten said. the power of the purse does belong solely to congress and not to the president. now having said that, this policy of holding federal funds from sanctuary cities can be carried out by congress, but congress does have to abide by existing supreme court precedent that sets forth a road map about
how congress can put spritrings the receipt of freshman funds. i wrote an opinion piece a couple of months ago that basically told congress how it can do this, if that road map dots it's is and crosses it's ts, it can give president trump a longer term victory than this pr victory that he apparently was going for. >> was this just a rushed botched job by the administration to get this out without thinking i through. zbri don't want to criticize too much, because you always make mistakes in the early days of an administration. that was a short-term sort of pr victory, now they have to sort of play the long game here on a lot of these issues, because its
unclear that unlike a lot of administrations this trump administration is going to face serious challenges to almost every month it makes so better play the long-term legal game. >> kirsten, it's pretty stunning if that's the case that just like with the seven country ban -- >> there are -- the judge raised five different constitutional objections to this which seems like a lot on an executive order, you have separation of powers, the violation of spending clause, and one is void for vagueness, which means that there was no explanation for states of how they could not run afoul of this and another violation is that there was no motion to be heard and basically appeal. that's a lot of constitutional violations in one executive order. >> the white house has said when they put this out that a definition of what is a sanctuary city would be
forthcoming. i just talked to the mayor of los angeles and he doesn't know what's the definition of a sanctuary city. >> i think it's funny that liberals are now defenders of state's rights and keeping the big, bad federal government from overreaching, look, very clearly what these sanctuary cities are doing, is unilaterally deciding not to enforce federal law. i agree that congress -- >> to the argument that the mayor of los angeles makes that they want people to report crimes, even if they're undocumented they do not want -- >> that's a perfectly valid argument except that we have the rule of law, the rule of federal law says you cannot come into this country illegally and they are choosing to not abide by the department of justice enforcement. >> rudy giuliani did this, he's
a law and order person, rudy giuliani had a sanctuary city, for all the reasons we know, you need people to report crimes, this is a little bit ral thing. . >> the thing about it is you're missing a policy perspective. and that is this, as a former prosecutor, it's not just reporting crimes, there are prosecutorial -- for the federal government to come in and say that we're going to restructure those priorities is really an undermining of what the legal objectives are of a prosecutor's office. their goal is not simply to tout or flout the law, their goal is to enforce the priorities they have about trying to minimize
and solve violent crimes and you can all agree that being an undocumented immigrant in and of itself is by far never a violent crime. >> look at the san francisco case, where the guy was deported multiple times and he was killing u.s. stecitizens. >> the actual policy defense of these cities is they're trying to prioritize solving crimes like that that do exist, but trying to reallocate funding and their priorities in order to accommodate the -- >> as it moving through the courts. more breaking news, new questions tonight about payments former trump national security advisor michael flynn got from russia and turkey, is chair of the house oversight committee says that flynn's failure to
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facing new allegations tonight that he didn't disclose payments received by russia and turkey and violated the law. the violation would be punishable with five years in prison. the republican chair and ranking democrat of the house oversight committee announced their findings after reviewing flynn's application for security clearance calli ining what was contained in the documents troubling. >> do you believe that general flynn might have broken the law when he filled out sf 86. >> that would be up to him and a law enforcement agency, i don't know what he filled out and approximate with what he did or did not do. he filled out that form prior to coming here so it would be up to the committee and other authorities to look into that. >> t
>>. >> reporter: tonight new questions about whether president trump's former national security advisor broerk the law for not disclosing payments from russia and turkey? >> do you believe that michael flynn broke the law? >> i see no doubt that general flynn complied with the law. >> reporter: it comes after the leaders of the house oversight committee looked into documents in a private briefing, they reveal they have seen no proof that flynn received permission from the state department for the foreign payments he received. >> he was supposed to get permission and he was supposed to report it and he didn't, period. >> and they're saying he didn't fully disclose the northeasterly half million dollars his firm was given. or the $45,000 he received from russia for an rttv speaking
engagement, a fee that might have to be paid back. >> as a former national security adviser, you cannot take money from russia, turkey or anybody else. it appears as if he did take that money, it was inappropriate and there are repercussions for the violation of law. >> flynn's attorney says he did comply with the law on the russian payment. quote, general flynn briefed the intelligence agency, a component agency of dod. the embattled former national security advisor left amid controversy in february after he lied about discussing sanctions with russian ambassador sergey kislayak, now the former acting attorney general sally yates who alerted the white house about flynn's conversation with kislayak will soon testify in front of the senate judiciary committee about russian interference in the election.
>> we'll ask her about what she knew about russia, was it an administration effort to unmask people for political purposes, we're going to get to all things russia, in terms of what the administration did and what russia did. >> and the gop chairman of the senate intelligence committee says the panel wants to question flynn. >> is there any way you give flynn immunity to testify? >> no, there niece way, no. >> pamela joins us. now there are continued calls for an independent investigation into russian interference, is that looking at all likely at this point? >> it can certainly happen, just today, anderson the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein was confirmed in the senate so now he will oversee the russia probe for doj, and he has told senators according to senator chuck schumer that he will appoint a special prosecutor if in fact it is necessary. in fact a recent poll showed 73% of americans want outside counsel, they want an outside bipartisan commission to look
into russia's meddling in the election and possible ties with trump campaign associates, beyond what's already going on, you have the house oversight investigation. >> i'll talk to congress hahn jim heinz a member of the house committee oversight leader. be right back. allergies with nasal congestion? find fast relief behind the counter with claritin-d. [ upbeat music ] strut past that aisle for the allergy relief that starts working in as little as 30 minutes and contains the best oral decongestant. live claritin clear, with claritin-d.
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well, the breaking news tonight on capitol hill, the chairman of the house oversight committee says michael flynn, the former national security advisor failed to disclose payments from russia and turkey. white house won't say if flynn broke the law, as you know, there are multiple trump investigations under way, four congressional committees are conducting probes, congressman jim heinz is a member of the house intelligence committee. so the news that general flynn may not have followed the law when it comes to disclosing payments, what do you make of
that? >> the form, fs 86 is the form that anyone fills out who's getting security clearance. it is true and i take them at their word that these payments were not disclosed and it is also true that if you knowingly misrepresent information, if you lie on that sf-86, it is a felony, so the question becomes now was it a deliberate omission or was it an accident? and that's something that i would expect both my committee, the intelligence committee to look into. >> the house oversight committee are saying that the white house failed to provide them with documents related to flynn, how surprising is that to you and how much has your committee gotten from the white house, were you satisfied with their level of cooperation? >> it's concerning because it is almost always true in these things that cooperating and putting all the information that you have out there is the right way to go. when you say, hey, we're not
providing you with information that we have, it raises in the minds of people like me and the minds of the public why not. the question of if there was anything more than just inattention to these details, and our national security advisor getting significant payments from foreign countries, but it is of course something that we will be looking into. michael flynn has a lot of testifying to do before a number of committees and recall, ae anderson, that he did ask for immunity in exchange for that testimony. so we're going to hear more from michael flynn. >> it do you think he should get immunity? >> my first answer is no, he wouldn't. in the law enforcement context, you give immunity usually to smaller fish because you might think there are bigger forecast to go after, so until someone sat down with michael flynn and
lawyers to try to find out what -- and what kind of legal trouble is he in. until you know those two things, you can't make a judgment on whether it makes any sense at all to give him immunity. >> and so far that hasn't happened with michael flynn nobody's sat down to see what he has? >> on the congressional side, no, he hasn't. when he offered to testify in exchange for immunity, the senate and the house committees didn't take him up on that officer, who the house committee may or may not be doing, we don't know because it's an ongoing investigation. >> sally yates will be testifying and also former intelligence committee member james clapper have testified before an open committee. how important is it for you to have open hearings as opposed to closed hearings, obviously you can learn a lot more from a
closed hearing, they can talk about more than they can in an open hearing? >> they'll be con trained from talking about classified information and being a government official, they may have information they can't discuss in public, but as many of these hearings as possible happen in the open, so the american public can see what we're seeing in an investigation. we can't have an investigation that ends in six months and how people are going to know what lines of inquiry we need to follow. this one, i think will be particularly interesting, you'll recall four, five, six weeks ago, with chairman nunes's race to the white house, it was preseriopr pre -- we were all set and ready to go, and then boom, it just disappeared. we may learn when they finally
do testify, main why it was so important that that open hearing be cancelled back when it was. >> are you satisfied with the pace of things? we know members of the senate intelligence committee are frustrated with their side of the investigation, how is it going on the house side? >> we had that two or three-week kind of carnival when we were wondering what was going on. since chairman nunes has recused himself from the investigation, mike conaway has taken over that investigation, i think we're back on track, we have agreed on witness lists, we're scheduling hearings so i do think we're back on track, it's important that i caught wind obviously of everything that was said over on the senate side. before you start interviewing witnesses you've got thousands of pages of documents to review, many of them have to happen in classified spaces, and you have to think very carefully about what order you interview witnesses in as well.
this is not something that can happen in a one, or two-week period. this is something you would rather do right and comprehensively in a fashion to do it quickly. up next, president trump insists a big beautiful border wall as he often calls it will be built, but the question is where is the funding for it on capitol hill, and will mexico really pay the bill for it? the new twists and turns next. not ink. printing doesn't have to be painful. now, during "hp savings month" at staples, get up to $180 off hp printers. try new flonase sensimistgies. instead of allergy pills. it delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only block one. new flonase sensimist.
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well the big beautiful wall that candidate trump promised over and over again that mention quo would pay for. with a friday deadline fast approaching, one republican plan does not have money in it for the border wall but does have funding for boarder security. >> we're doing plans, we're doing specifications, we're doing a lot of work on the wall and the wall gets built. the wall is very, very important. >> in your first term? >> well, it's certainly going to -- yeah, yeah, sure, we have plenty of time, we got a lot of time. >> white house press secretary sean spicer was asked about timing for the wall and the budget for it. here's what he said.
>> there is a national and economic safety issue by having a wall that ensures our country's safety and there's plenty of playing that can be done and in fy-17, and we'll continue to ask for more in fy-18. >> you'll notice that in neither president trump's comments nor in the press briefing is there someplace mentioned south of the border called mexico, which means you and me and all of us are going to be paying for the wall. >> we are going to build a great border wall. we will build a great, great wall. >> we're going to build a wall, don't worry about it. >> we will build the wall 100%. i promise, we will build the wall.
and who's going to pay for the wall? >> mexico! >> who's going to pay for the wall? >> mexico! >> who? >> mexico! >> it will be a great wall. mexico is going to pay for the wall. mexico will pay for the wall. and mexico's going to pay for the wall and they understand that. mexico is going to pay for the wall. believe me. 100%. >> well, mexico's foreign minister by the way today said in no scenario will mexico pay for the wall. joining me now is jack kingston and paul begala. how essential is it that he delivers at least in some way here. sean spicer is care testimony to say, there's not a delay, but it seems like there's no funding for it this time around. >> his base wants it. rush limbaugh went in today and
attacked the wall. he says first we don't need it. the flow of mexicans, have gone back home. in other words we're losing mexico. they're going back home, mr. trump's wall will only slow down their departure. 60% of americans opposed it in the quinnipiac poll, every single member of congress, republican, democrat alike whose district that wall would go through opposes it. and finally, he's got a higher priority, yeah, he said that on the campaign trail, but his higher priority which he's already outlined is a massive tax cut for corporate america. 2.4 trillion for wall street fat . >> the number of people crossing over into the united states has dropped dramatically. the extension of time lines, are we witnessing the same thing
with the president's effort to repeal and replace obamacare here? >> i don't tlhink so. those numbers are real. illegal border crossings were down 60% last month. we're at a 17-year low. enforcing the law works. the greater umbrella of immigration control and getting a grip on our illegal crossings, the president is delivering on that. i want to say this. the policy -- >> what about the wall? is it crucial that he has to do that? >> i think it's crucial he absolutely has to fight for it. but i think the american electorate understands that he is fighting chuck schumer, a man who voted for the wall in 2006, along with his senate colleague barack obama. you know, remember one thing that paul and i know and we have discussed off camera a minute ago is that the issue is great for us. i'm just talking straight politics. this is not good policy. but sometimes a political policy -- party does well when
they talk about an issue. that issue doesn't have to get resolved. if we, republicans, are the party of border enforcement, then it's a good issue for us. if chuck schumer wants to lead the fight against it, i know that's good in democrat pockets. i think that's -- >> what about that? the congressman is saying as long as he is seen as fighting for it, maybe he doesn't are to deliver on it. >> lincoln said you can fool some of the people some of the time. that's how donald trump got to become president. he got fewer votes by 3 million than hillary clinton. but he fooled enough people. i don't fault those people. you fall for a con, it doesn't make you a bad person. it makes the con artist a liar and bad person. he conned the folks, many of them really good people. >> paul, we haven't been conned. his approving rating with republicans is 80% to 85%. we understand -- >> the con is working. >> he is fighting for us. i think that's what people see.
>> is mexico going to pay? >> i don't think mexico will pay directly. as jeff sessions says, there are a number of ways to get money out of mexico and one of them is the payments that go back for mexican workers who are in america. there are ways through that or through trade, through tax policies to recoup some of the money. >> taxing the money that mexican workers send back or just taking the money? >> i think it would be taxing the money they send back. anderson, let me say this. i'm speaking as a republican. 70% of this battle is building the wall. we republicans, the line about mexico paying for it, i know it's a big crowd pleaser. you could ask them in terms of voter -- the value of that is less than building the wall. >> seems popular with the crowds, the idea of mexico playing for it. up next, ivanka trump
father's report on women's issues. >> he has been supporting families and enabling them to thrive in the new reality -- >> you hear the audience. >> ivanka supporting her dad in germa germany. here is tom foreman. >> reporter: fashion mogul. >> white diamonds. >> reporter: policy walk. >> i have been engaged in a long-term campaign to support young professional women. >> reporter: or defender in chief whether for her father's behavior toward women. >> i'm not in every interaction. he's not a groper. he clearly did not think that was the star of david. i think that it should have been taken at face value. that was clearly not the intention. >> reporter: the true nature of ivanka trump's role is a mystery. just as it was throughout the
campaign, it still is even as she settles into the white house as an unpaid adviser. >> i want to thank my daughter ivanka who is with us today. >> reporter: she's shown up in top level meetings with foreign leaders. she has a staff, an office in the west wing and expecting security clearance. she's been at the table to discuss american business concerns. at her dad's desk to congratulate an astronaut in space. >> i'm here in the oval office along with my daughter ivanka. >> reporter: again, what is she doing? ivanka has implied her chief agenda is keeping rights for women and children in the forefront. indeed, her father brought it up to congress. >> my administration wants to work with members of both parties to make childcare accessible and affordable, to help ensure new parents that they have paid family leave. [ applause ] >> reporter: others suggest the first daughter is first a voice of moderation.
offsetting conservatives on matters such as gay rights, climate change and abortion. but she won't confirm. >> my father agrees with me on so many issues. and where he doesn't, he knows where i stand. >> reporter: beyond that, she's supremely cagey. seldom revealing where she stands on how she shapes her father's positions. driving critics crazy. >> i think most of the impact i have over time most people will not actually know about. >> reporter: that's convenient. we should give her credit when good stuff happens and then blame others when bad stuff happens? that's not a job description of a political adviser. that's a description of an old testimony god. >> reporter: this matters because ivanka's unique position raises questions about accountability and transparentsy, all of which are difficult to answer if we don't know what her job is. >> tom foreman, thanks very much. thanks for watching 360.
time to hand things over to jake tapper for "the lead." president trump said we're going to win so much, you're going to be sick and tire ftd winning. then federal courts said, not so fast there, donald trump. "the lead" starts right now. another judge dealing president trump a major setback. this time regarding an executive order on sanctuary cities. cory booker will react in minutes. breaking tonight, the house oversight committee saying the president's former national security adviser, michael flynn, may have broken the law regarding a russian payday. plus, a candid conversation with facebook's -- how they are coping with the pain of shockingly losing her husband. good afternoon. welcome