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tv   New Day  CNN  May 23, 2017 3:00am-4:01am PDT

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coordinated attacks. that's the big question for investigators. who was this bomber? was there help? the device suggests some level of sophistication. this arena holds 21,000. many people still unaccounted for. the numbers you hear will likely change in terps of the victims. right now police are focusing on just one lone suicide bomber uniquely positioned in the enclosed area that connects concert hall to victoria station, the big metro station. so that was the right place to be if you're up to this type of evil. people around the world are reacting temperature attack, including president trump who was in israel this hour. we have it all covered. let's do first to cnn's clarissa ward in manchester. clarissa. >> reporter: hi, chris. this is as close as we can get to the arena because police have
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cordoned off the entire area. this is a huge venue and last night it was attacked. many of the people attending this concert, ariana grande very popular with the tween audience. a lot of young girls eight, nine, ten years old. it was packed, as i said, at 10:33 p.m. that's when the chaos unfolded. take a look. >> what's going on? oh, my gosh. >> the deadly explosion rocking manchester arena in england. the blast sending panicked concertgoers including many young fans of pop singer ariana grande. running for the exits and jumping over barricades. >> there was bodies, at least 20, 30 people on the floor that you could see.
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they were just dead. >> police now investigating the incident as an act of terror carried out by one male wide bomber. >> we believe the attacker is carrying an improvised explosive device which he detonated causing this atrocity. >> the attacker died at the scene after detonating the device in an area near the box office outside the arena at 10:33 p.m. as the concert ended. >> there was a mad rush to get out because nobody knew what was happening. >> parents screaming, frantically searching for their children. >> there was chirp crying trying to get in contact with parents. parents on their phone, obviously upset. they were crying, trying to get in contact with the kids. it was just an awful, awful thing to witness. >> the attack leaving many traumatized, especially the
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children. >> she's just petrified whoever did this will come to the house or go to her school. she's devastated. for her at 10 years old to witness something like that is just horrific. >> one mother in anguish pleading for help finding her missing 15-year-old daughter. >> most horrible experience ever. you can't find her. you don't know if she's dead or alive. i don't know how people can do this to innocent children. >> the city left reeling from the tragedy. >> something that manchester in its own unique way will make sure we turn into a strength for the city by working together. >> authorities have two main focuses, helping people who are till missing their loved ones, who became separated during the
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chaos of last night's event. of course, the second one is to try to identify who this lone male suicide pommer was and to work out whether or not there was a larger network providing him with financial and technical support. chris. >> all right. uk leader theresa may speaking in. let's listen in. >> the people of this country have fallen victim to a terrorist attack, an attack that targeted some of the youngest people in our society with cold calculation. this was among the worst terrorist incidents we have ever experienced in the united kingdom. although this time manchester has suffered in this way, it's the worst attack the city experienced and the worst ever to hit the north of england. the police and security services are working at speed.
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they ever working but i want to tell you what i can at this stage. at reports of an explosion police were called to manchester arena near manchester train station. we now know a single terrorist detonated his improvised explosive device near one of the exits of the venue, the time and place for max ma'imum carnage. the explosion at a pop concert attended by many families and groups of children. all acts of terrorism are cowardly attacks on people. this attack stands out for its appalling, sickening cowardice. deliberately targeting defenseless children and young
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people who should have been enjoying one of the most memorable nights of their lives. as things stand, i can tell you in addition to the attacker, 22 people have died and 59 people have been injured. those injured treated in eight different hospitals across greater manchester. many are being treated for life threatening conditions. we know among those killed and injured were many children and young people. we struggle to comprehend the warped and twisted mind that sees a room packed with young children not as a scene to cherish but as an opportunity for carnage. but we can continue to resolve to thwart attacks in the future. to take on and defeat ideology that fuels this violence. if it turns out there's others responsible for the attack to seek them out and bring them to
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justice. the police and curt services believe that the attack was carried out by one man, but they now need to know whether he was acting alone for his part of a wider group. it will take time to establish these facts and the investigation will continue. the police and security services will be given all the resources they need to complete that task. the police and security services believe they know the identity of the perpetrator. but at this stage of the investigations, we cannot confirm his name. the police and emergency services have, as always, acted with great courage. on behalf of the country, i want to express our gratitude to them. they acted in accordance with the plans they had in place and exercises to test those plans and performed with utmost professionalism. 400 police officers were involved in the operation
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through the night. many paramedics, doctors, and nurses have worked valiantly amid traumatic and terrible scenes to save lives and care for the wounded. significant resources have been deployed to the police investigation, and there continue to be visible patrols around the system, which include the deployment of armed officers. for people who live and work in manchester, their remains a large cordon in place around manchester arena and station which will be in place for sometime. the station is closed and will remain closed while a detailed forensic search is under way. we know that many friend and relatives of people caught up in the attack are till trying to find out what has happened to their children, brothers and sisters, parents, and loved ones. so please, think of those people who are experiencing unimaginable worry. if you have any information at
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all relating to the attack, please contact greater manchester police. the threat level remains at severe. that means that a terrorist attack remains highly likely. the independent joint terrorism analysis center, which sets the threat level on the basis of the intelligence available to them will continue to assess this throughout the day and in the days ahead. later today i will travel to manchester to meet the chief constable of greater mmplg police in hawkins. the mayor of greater manchester and members of emergency services who have come to manchester's aid in its moment of need. and as i announced last night, the general election campaign has been suspended. i will chair another meeting of cobra later today. at terrible moments like these it is customary for leaders and
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others to condemn perpetrators and declare terrorists will not win. the fact that we have been here before, and the fact we need to say this again does not make it any less true. for us and often while we experience the worst of humanity in manchester last night, we also saw the best. the cowardice of the attacker met the bravery of the emergency services and the people of manchester. the attempt to divide us met countless acts of kindness that property people closer together. and in the days ahead, those must be the things we remember. the images we hold in our minds should not be those of senseless slaughter but of the ordinary men and women who put concerns about their own safety to one side and rushed to help. the men and women of the emergency services who worked tirelessly to bring comfort to help and to save lives.
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of the messages of solidarity and hope, of all those who opened their homes to the victims, for they are the images that embody the spirit of manchester and the spirit of britain, a spirit that through years of conflict and terrorism has never been broken and will never be prone. there will be difficult days ahead. we offer our thoughts and prayers to the family and friends of those affected. we offer our full support to the authorities, the emergency and the security services as they do about their work, and we all, every single one of us, stand with the people of manchester at this terrible time. and today, let us remember those who died, and let us celebrate those who helped, safe in the knowledge that the terrorists will never win and our values, our country and our way of life
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will always prevail. >> theresa may reassuring the people there having suffered through this alleged terror attack in manchester saying terrorists will never win, our way of life will always prevail. president trump also peg out about the situation. he spoke to the british leader earlier offering condolences. the president in jerusalem laying a wreath at the memorial museum in jerusalem. earlier he used strong words to condemn this attack while speaking alongside the palestinian president. here is a sample. >> so many young, beautiful, innocent people living and enjoying their lives murdered by evil losers in life. i won't call them monsters, because they would like that
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term. they would think that. i will call them from now on losers, because that's what they are. they are losers. and we'll have more of them. but they are losers, just remember that. >> let's bring our panel in. cristian amanpour and paul crook shan shank. what's the latest they are telling you as far as intelligence. >> the police i think have identified the individual who carried out this attack. they need to confirm that, obviously. but that's very important because that will give them a big head start now in terms of
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interviewing associates of this individual going to properties, residences connected wmg individual, looking at social media and trying to see if there's any network behind this attack. the concern is if there is a network other individuals connected to that network, that cell, may move forward with attacks in hours ahead. so they want to better understand this and they also want to prevent more blood shed. >> who has he been talking to, one of the first questions investigators ask. didn't mention isis, no claim of responsibility for this attack yet spoke generally about the attack. said one line meant many years in recognition in uk, just because i've had to give you this message of resilience before doesn't make it any less true. there has been a string of attacks there now. it must be withering.
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>> the threat level is severe, which means another attack is likely and they will continue to keep assessing. we have to keep saying the intelligence people, intelligence and security leaders over many months have been saying terror threat is high. it's a matter of when, not if. they have managed to foil so many attacks but inevitably something was going to get through. this is that something, because the parliament vehicle and knife attack was not considered a classic terror attack. it was a one off. what we're seeing are these, as we continue to watch across europe and even in the united states, there aren't any more 9/11-style massive attacks, highly coordinated and deeply planned. but the terrorism of today is these individuals who may or may
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not have some help and that's what police are looking for right now. she did say this is the first time happening ever during an election campaign. all parties have suspended their campaigning for that june 8th election until further notice. >> clarissa, you're in manchester. theresa may said this is not the first time manchester has suffered this way. tell us about mmplanchester. what is that community like? >> well, the people of manchester known for their resilience. this is not the first time they have been victims of terrorist attacks. they did suffer at the hands of the i.r.a. many decades ago. we heard from the prime minister this is the worst attack not just in manchester but the whole northern part of the country and, indeed, one of the worst attacks in great britain. there's a definite sense here people are trying to go about their normal lives but you can see the look in their eyes.
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they are in shock. not because it's a terrorist attack, alalisyn, but as you hed theresa may, this is a terror attack that deliberately and to target children. this is what is so difficult for many people to try to wrap their heads around. because aryianna grande is a po tar very popular with tween audience. a lot of people were young families, groups of children i have seen walking around here, many as young as 7 years old. make no mistake about it. this is a community that is on high alert. this is a community that is in shock. this is a community that will be grieving for sometime as people say about the important work of trying to ascertain whether or not this bomber, who they said they have identified, although they are choosing not to name for now, whether or not there was a group supporting him financially, technologically,
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personally or otherwise. >> so paul what does it mvp to you no claim of responsibility by any organization yet, then you see also the clues here on the ground, the timing obviously advantageous to the concert. the location, bottleneck point between the concert hall and the victoria station, and, of course, the device. >> well, early stages, we saw after westminster in march it took isis nearly a day to put out a statement after that attack claiming some ownership in that attack. but you're right. no claim of responsibility from any terror group. isis with morning radio bulletin a few hours ago. there was no mention at all of the attack in manchester. obviously all signs pointing to islamist terrorism given this was a suicide bombing.
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the contacts he-- context of th uk, a high threat, spike in terror activity. they are making one arrest a day in counter-terrorism operations. last week in london four men arrested, they thwarted a terror -- in the council of the uk. a lot of concern as we move forward here. >> we're seeing some activity happening in manchester. these are live pictures. class, a, you're there. do you have any idea what's happening on the streets of manchester right now? >> we don't have her right now. we're just showing you a live picture from manchester, england. this is an active investigation. we're told police know the identity of the attacker. they haven't released it yet. they are trying to find out, paul, who else might be involved. yesterday police had a controlled explosion manchester police put out warning about
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that. you see the media moving in now. what do we know about how many different resources are involved on the uk side to figure out what happened here? >> the entire counter-terrorism apparatus of the country has been put into action here. this is perhaps the best in class in terms of national capability all around the world. they have a lot of experience unfortunately with these kinds of attacks going all the way back to the days of i.r.a. terrorism in the 1970s. the intelligence services and police work very, very closely together in a coordinated fashion here in the uk to try to stop these kind of attacks but then to investigate them. afterwards they will take advantage of the fact there's a huge amount of cc tv coverage in a place like manchester to try to retrace the footsteps of this attacker. >> paul, hold on one second. clarissa is back with us. clarissa, do you know what's
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happening in that neighborhood? >> well, i mean, unsurprisingly, alisyn, everyone here is on a high state of alert. there's a definite air of tension. it often happens in these sort of days and hours after this kind of an attack that you'll see these. in this case apparently a false alarm. people began to rundown the treats screaming move, move. there is an elevated police presence over there. i don't know if our camera can just pan aside. walk with me over here. you can see in the background an elevated police presence. not sure exactly what that is and what exactly happened. as i said before, this is typical. this is common. we have all experienced this before for many of us who cover the paris attacks. we were repeatedly in instances like this where it just takes one person, a moment of panic, a moment of fear to sort of set off a chain reaction. so far things do appear to now
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be calm in the area after an initial flurry of activity, alisyn. >> thank you very much for all the insight. obviously we'll check back with you during the course of this developing story. so the terror in manchester is unfolding outside of an arena packed with children and teenagers because of the ariana grande concert. coming up we have an eyewitness who took his little brother. listen, sugar, we're lettin' you go. it's that splenda naturals gal, isn't it? coffee: look, she's sweet, she's got natural stevia, no bitter aftertaste, and zero calories. all the partners agree? even iced tea? especially iced tea. goodbye, sugar. hello, new splenda naturals.
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amanpour. at latest count, 22 people have lost their lives. dozens more are injured. those numbers are likely to change after a terror bombing at an ariana grande concert in the uk. the concert had just ended at the manchester arena. there were tons of kids, teenagers loved ones packed in the arena that holds 21,000 people. we're told it was sold out and many are still unaccounted for. joining us by phone is andy james. andy attended the concert with 10-year-old brother ellis. it was an early birthday for him, his first concert experience ever. we're joined by joel goodman, the photographer who captured the explosion quick afterwards on the scene. andy james, tell us about the night before this happened. >> we were just going into the arena, about 10 past 7:00, you
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know, taking our seats, seemingly unaware of what was going to happen really. we entered the arena, later on when the explosion actually happened. just took our seats. really enjoyed the concert. then i think it was about 10:35, 10:40, we went to go and leave, to the merchandise, t-shirts and all that. we were gout to walk up the stairs where the explosion happened. it rattled all the chairs and felt it in your chest. it was terrifying. >> alisa is okay, you're okay. is there anybody who you knew who became a worse victim of this situation? >> no, both of us are okay. i made sure we got outside of the arena as soon as possible. sunny that happened i just grabbed him trait away and went
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in the opposite direction. i had been to the arena a couple of times before that event. made sure we went in the opposite direction, got out as quick as possible, got away from it all. i don't know anybody affected. there's been a lot of posts on social media as well about people being injured. one of my friends works in one of the main hospitals in manchester as well and said so many people in and out of the hospital today. >> eight different hospitals handled the flow, many unaccounted for. what did you think it was when it happened? >> as soon as it happened, something clicks in your head. straightaway with the terrorism that happens in the world right now, i knew straightaway it was an explosion, something else was about to happen. you have this feeling like oh,
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god, this is actually happening. couldn't believe at a con certificate something like that. he was really, really well collected, kept himself together. really good for someone his age. >> we'll get back to that in one second. that was the right advice at the time. joel goodman, you hustled down to the scene. what did you see? >> i saw a bit of rather nasty scenes of people, walking wounded, i guess you would describe who were injured, temporarily bandaged neck, knee, heads pleading. being held by friends. people hobbling away or on the ground and emergency services obviously all over the place. police, ambulance running and doing their best to keep up with some of the shocking events andy
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was describing. >> we're showing photos that you took during and in the immediate moments after what you witnessed there on the ground. where this took place, the response, what were your thoughts on those aspects. >> the location, i work a lot in manchester. i photograph sometimes in southern manchester arena as well. it's a place that anyone who has enjoyed a bit of comedy or music over the years would have been on at least one occasion. so the last thing you want is this to be your homety. this is the shocking event. obviously there's a lot of people still unaccounted for. so it's very difficult to sort of still formulate at this early stage, if that makes sense. >> it never makes sense,
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something like this, other than finding a way to carry on as theresa may advised the country. joel, thank you for your insight and photos. andy, thank god your safe and your little brother, too. he's go going to have a lot of questions but he has a good big brother to help him through the situation. hopefully he'll remember the first part of the night more than the second. be well. alisyn. >> chris, we'll have much more on the terror attack at the ariana grande concert. first, sources tell cnn that president trump tried to convince intel leaders to publicly deny any collusion between his campaign and the kremlin. what does this mean for the investigation? we explore that next. fothere's a seriousy boomers virus out there that's been almost forgotten. it's hepatitis c. one in 30 boomers has hep c, yet most don't even know it.
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so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount we do have breaking news for you. a terror attack at an ariana grande concert in manchester, england. 2 people is the number now killed. that number might change. dozens more have been injured. there was an explosion after the pop star left the stage at the manchester arena and police believe the attack was coordinatan improvised explosive device.
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we just heard theresa may addressing the manchester carnage. >> president trump talking boult renewing the fight for middle east peace with prime minister abbas. can't escape intensifying collusion problems at home involving russia. current and former u.s. official tell cnn president of the united states ask top intel chiefs to publicly deny evidence of collusion, as former national security adviser michael flynn risks being held in contempt of congress for refusing to testify about russia. can they do that in congress? cnn's laura jarrett live in washington. laura. >> reporter: chris, the president has fiercely denied any coordination between his campaign and russian meddling in the '6election even slamming the investigation as a witch hunt. it now appears he privately made a pitch to members of his own national security team in the hopes they would publicly come to his defense and help push back on the fbi investigation.
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president trump's first international trip overshadowed bionic controversy at home including stunning revelations from u.s. officials that the president personally asked two top intelligence officials to publicly deny any evidence of collusion between his campaign and russia. sources telling cnn the director of national intelligence, dan coats and security agency director michael rogers were uncomfortable and refused to comply. reaching out after james comey publicly exposed the bureau's investigation in march. >> that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the trump campaign and the russian government. >> the trump administration responding to this latest pom shell saying the white house does not confirm or deny unsubstantiated claims based on illegal leaks from anonymous individuals. according to the "washington post," rogers documented the president's request in a memo
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written by a senior nsa official, which will be available to the special counsel now overseeing the justice department's investigation, robert mueller. according to sources, mueller has already reviewed comey's handwritten memos detailing the president's early request for the fbi to drop the investigation into his former national security adviser michael flynn. >> i didn't think he was someone who would bring benefit to the president or administration. i made that clear to candidate trump, i wouldn't let general flynn in the white house, let alone give him a job. >> flynn's attorneys now saying the client will invoek fifth amendment refusing to comply with senate intelligence subpoena for a list of contact he had with russian officials. >> we have to find out whether we have the ability to either hold general flynn in contempt or -- i've got to get the legal
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answer to that at first. >> president trump's past criticism of e-mail scandal when took the fifth. >> if you're innocent, why take the fifth. >> appears flynn lied to investigators about who funded his foreign trips, including a 2015 trip to moscow. now, comey has agreed to testify before the senate intelligence panel after memorial day. we've also learned he wants to speak with special counsel mueller before he goes public. former cia director john brennan will testify before the house intel committee today. alisyn, chris. >> thank you very much for all that. let's bring back to the panel to discuss, cnn political analyst and author of "how's your faith?" david gregory. senior correspondent david drucker and cnn analyst and washington white house reporter abby phillip. great to have all of you. david gregory, now we know it
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wasn't just president trump pressing comey to make some public declaration at the moment he had seen no collusion betweened administration and russia, now other heads. how big a deal? >> i think it's a big deal. we have a pattern with the president reflective of investigation of russian collusion. the claim without substantiation. now evidence based on this, wanted to slow down the fbi investigation. so it's a really big deal. we've been saying throughout the morning, i don't know if this is obstruction of justice. the president outside private counsel for all of this. we have this huge spectacle down the pike here. that is fbi director comey preparing to testify publicly on capitol hill about his disputes with the president, intimidation, conversations they had, all the threats back and
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forth. but with mueller there as special counsel, will that actually happen or will that be pushed aside for this special council's investigation to move forward. regardless, this is really the centerpiece. which was why was the president working so hard to get this piece of the investigation shut down. >> david, the facts laid out by these sources which the white house are dismissing as illegal leaks from anonymous sources. one, do you think that's a winning argument? >> no, at least not at this point. i think at the beginning of the argument, when it was just about flynn and just about the unmasking of conversations that should have been kept classified, i think back in january you could make that argument. i think we saw republicans try and do that. good, we'll investigate russian meddling and why this classified information is leaking. i think at this point with so
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much information out there about the president's personal involvement in trying to quash this thing, even because of a sense, if that what it turns out to be because of unfairness, not because he did anything wrong in terms of the underlying issue, i don't think it flies anymore politically with the american public. >> is the best argument right now if comey was so worried, why didn't he say anything? if coats and rogers were so worried, why didn't they say anything? they were senate intel committee. last week they could have said whatever they wanted. >> not a bad argument to make but not when you're driving news events to your detriment. this gets back to a pattern the president has whether through twitter or news conference or even in israel yesterday where he volunteered to members of the media because he was being pressed there, hey, i never mentioned israel in that meeting with the russians when we know that he disclosed inappropriate ly classified intelligence to the russians.
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nobody reported he disclosed the source of the intelligence was israel. so he has a way of driving events to his own detriment and that's why i don't think these other things while good questions are going to end mattering. >> speaking of that, this is the tale of two presidencies playing out on the screen, split screen, basically. he's having his first foreign trip. he's getting lots of praise overseas, a lot at home as well. he's going to these historic sites at the same time that all of this is happening back here in this rapid-fire news cycle of what seems like new nuggets of the investigation. so it's hard to know when he returns where his presidency will be in terms of the public's view of it. >> right. i think the white house thought this foreign trip would be an opportunity to change the topic, to put out a lot of glossy
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images of the president being a world leader. in the meantime there's a constant drip from these ongoing investigations in part because trump worked so hard to make enemies out of his own government, out of the intelligence officials and law enforcement within the fbi. that's part of what we're seeing here, so much of this information is coming up because of concerns within the government by u.s. officials who are looking at all of this and saying that some of this needs to be publicized in part because they viewed it as an attempt from the white house to quash, squash this investigation over time. to your earlier question, chris, about why -- you know, why nsa didn't come forward, why james comey didn't come forward, i think one of the questions we still have is how big apart of the investigation are the attempts to influence the investigation.
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that's part of the overall looked into at this point in time is all of this that went on over the last four months, internal memos by james comey by codes and by others. so there's a lot of potential documentation out there, evidence that is out there, that we are just learning about that could very well be part of a very prod investigation that federal officials have tried not to say too much publicly about because it's extraordinarily sensitive. >> the best indication will be -- we've got to go to the manchester bombing developments but david we'll check back with you in a little bit. panel, thank you very much on this. we have more on manchester pomming and russian collusion. we'll get to both ahead. senate intelligence are now increasing pressure on trump's ousted security adviser mike flynn. this the latest threat. they say, hey, we may hold him in contempt of congress because he didn't want to hand over documents. can they do that? if so, under what circumstances.
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made daily life a guessing game. will i have pain and bloating today? my doctor recommended ibgard to manage my ibs. take control. ask your doctor about nonprescription ibgard. we've been getting new
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information all morning about this terror attack at ariana grande concert, actually just after it ended in manchester, england. back home we're also covering latest developments in the russia probe. michael flynn's attorney has indicated that the former national security adviser is not doing to turn over any documents. instead he's going to take the fifth in lieu of testifying or cooperating with intel committee. let's talk to robert ray former counsel of whitewater scandal that investigated the real estate controversy involving clintons and grew from there to much different things and cnn legal analyst jeffrey toobin. good to have you both with us this morning. if he doesn't want to turn over documents and doesn't plead the fifth, then could congress hold him in contempt. >> yes, but he's taking the fifth. >> if he's taking the fifth can they hold him in contempt now? >> yes. >> this is a threat. >> we have the fifth amendment
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to allow people to not cooperate with investigations. based on modern law, that includes not testifying and not producing documents. >> robert ray, when you tell a client we should take the fifth here, is that because they are guilty and want to hide as the president once stated. >> with regard to documents, that's a narrow exception and there's a line of cases that refer to that process, a testimonial component to documents that general flynn may have in his possession that cannot be used against him unless, you know, immunity is granted. that has a separate string of consequences. i suspect the fedex act rather than contempt will be an attempt to force before a court to test the limits whether he has production coverage under fifth amendment. that's a more complicated
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question. that would precede, as jeffrey points out, precede any attempt by the committee to hold him in contempt. >> next issue, the idea that the president of the united states went to coats and rogers, head of dni and nsa, can you please go in trouble and say there's no proof of collusion. they didn't like it so they didn't do it. >> it's all part of the same group of facts, which is was donald trump trying to impede the fbi investigation of the russia connection. whether this is a separate act of orb instruction of justice or obstruction at all, i don't know. that's certainly what mueller is going to investigate. when lou at the full pattern of activity culminating with the firing of james comey as fbi director, it certainly lays out facts worthy of investigating whether the president obstructed
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justice. this statement -- these intelligence officials, just another piece of that evidence. >> what if the president said i didn't know that was obstruction of justice. i thought i was just asking my guys if they could do me a solid on this because i don't think there's anything to it. >> one is, the first point is that ignorance of the law is no defense. more importantly than that, he may actually be right. if there was, in fact, no evidence, no collusion, having your people go out and say something to that effect, there's nothing wrong with that. even if ultimately shown to be some evidence of collusion, if he's managing, you know, a news story, a big stretch to say that's obstruction of justice. >> i think there's a distinction here between telling your press secretary to go out and say there's no evidence of collusion here, there's certainly nothing inappropriate about that. that's what press secretaries do. if you do go to an intelligence official to say that based on all the evidence you are
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instructing him to say there's no evidence of collusion, that gets, i think, a little more squirrely. that's someone who should be investigating that, not just a mouthpiece for you. >> what would impress you in terms of potential of obvious abuse of power, overreach or obstruction? >> well, we go back to the comey memos, people have too easily left to the conclusion that was an attempt to obstruct justice. what the president's hopes were, intimations about what director comey would or would not investigate and how far he would take this. again, seems to me you can argue maybe that's on the edge but certainly not over the line in terms of a provable case involving obstruction. frankly also, i don't think how people understand statutes are written relatively straightforwardly. it's actually surprisingly complicated to prove an obstruction of justice case, particularly at an early stage
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when, for example, at a time when comey memos were created, it's not even clear to me there was a pending grand jury investigation. i don't know when that -- we don't know when -- >> what he's trying to obstruct. >> arguably if he was trying to obstruct the fbi investigation. that's also difficult to prove under the obstruction of justice statutes. generally have you to have a pending proceeding. an fbi investigation is not a pending proceeding. it's got to be a jury investigation. it can come during the course of an fbi investigation but you have to show a nexus with some pending judicial proceeding. a grand jury investigation would qualify but wasn't clear to me at the time this occurred there was a grand jury investigation yet. >> i think when you have an fbi director investigating the president of the united states prodly defined and the president fires that fbi director because of that investigation, you certainly have something to go on to investigate. i think that's certainly what robert mueller's charge is.
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whether he finds an actual crime or impeachable offense is a different question. this is not a frivolous investigation. >> it could be wrong but not illegal, that's why they are looking at it. thank you for being on the show. >> we have breaking information about the deadly manchester terror attack. an arrest has been made in the investigation. we have all the details for you at the top of the hour. bp uses flir cameras - a new thermal imagining technology - to inspect difficult-to-reach pipelines, so we can detect leaks before humans can see them. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. on a perfect car, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises your rates. maybe you should've done more research on them.
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good morning chorlton welcome to your new day. we begin with breaking news. a bombing in england. at least 22 killed chorlton including kids chorlton dozens injured just after an ariana grande concert. the explosion creating chaos just as the concert let out monday night. the venue holds 21,000. we're told it was sold out chorlton many unaccounted for. this is the deadliest attack on british soil since subway bombings in 2005 that took about 50 lives. >> investigators say lone suicide bomber carried out the attack using improvised explosive device. british prime minister theresa may say police believe they know attackers identity but not releasing yet. emotional reactions pouring in from around the world. we have it all covered. let's go first to clarissa ward. live in manchester. she has no breaking details. what have you learned chorlton clarissa?

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