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tv   CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin  CNN  May 24, 2017 11:00am-12:01pm PDT

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hi there, i'm brianna keel later. we're following major developments out of manchester, england. the brother of the bomber is under arrest for planning his own attack in tripoli. back in the uk, five people are now in custody in connection with the bombing as police say they believe the bomber was part of a wider terrorist network. and all of this as we get word from u.s. officials that the attacker spent three weeks in libya, returning to england just days before he walked into that ariana grande concert surrounded by children and teenagers and
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debts nat detonated a suicide bomb. joining me right now is hala gorani. what can you tell us about the bomber's arrest? >> reporter: he's under arrest in libya. this is according to a militia that works with the interior for planning a terrorist attack in tripoli. his name is hashem abedi. he said that both were members of isis. this is coming to us from the militia. the militia said, as i mentioned, that he admitted that they planned these attacks and he was, in fact, the brother who is about 20 years old, according to the date of birth we've been given, was in manchester when salman abedi was planning the attack on the ariana grande concert. this gives us more pieces to this puzzle as to how this was planned, how wide this network is and that really is appears more and more that this is going well beyond a lone wolf
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situation. so again, this militia detaining hashem abedi has admitted that he's a member of isis, that salman abedi is also a member of isis and that he was in manchester when salman was planning that attack against the venue and that he, himself, according to the militia, was planning a separate attack in tripoli, the capital of libya. >> hala gorani, thank you so much. i want to bring in amy poke who is with the national security council under president obama. i want to get your reaction to what we just heard, amy, that the brother is now under arrest in libya and also that it appears that the bomber in england had gone back to libya recently for a few weeks. >> right. so it's not a surprise that there's a connection to libya here. there's been reported intelligence that there is a
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branch of isis operating in libya. we know, based on public reporting, that there have been attacks planned against western europe for some time, including against the united kingdom. so we don't know the extent of the network here. we don't know whether or not he was operating with an established cell or whether or not he was operating with a smaller group. but it's not a big surprise to hear that there's a connection in that country. >> information that we do not have confirmed, but you heard in ha hala's report there, that the brother now in prison in libya, they are both members of isis. >> right. >> what does that mean? does that mean someone who got training, someone inspired by isis? >> it's hard to say, because belonging to isis in this context is not the same as al qaeda, for example. it doesn't necessarily mean that they've had training or have sworn an oath of allegiance or have been part of an actual cell. isis has been content to basically inspire people and get
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anybody acting on the street to act in the name of isis. so it will take some more investigation to really understand what's at the heart of that. >> and this threat level that they are at, the highest in a decade, what do you make of that? is that a precaution or do you think actionable intelligence says they need to be on this level? >> it's difficult to say. if i were in their position, i would do it at least as a precaution. we know that there have been threats made against the u nitdnit united kingdom. there was a plot that was carried out. if i'm in their shoes, i want to be safe even if i don't yet have the intelligence to back it up. >> all right. amy, stay with us. i'm going to get to something else real quick, all interrelated, though. the uk home secretary says she's irritated with the u.s. after u.s. officials leaked the identity of the manchester bomber hours before british police, although we don't know the exact source of these disclosures, the leaks are renewing concerns over the trump administration and its handling
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of the classified information. the country defense minister may have made changes to their intel program in israel because of this meeting two weeks ago when the president shared classified information with russia's foreign minister and ambassador. i want to bring in cnn global affairs analyst elise labott. amy pope is back with us. please explain what is going on here and this irritation. >> i think it's apples and oranges, brianna. because what you have with president trump in that meeting with the russian foreign minister, i think he was bragging and blurted out some of the u.s. intelligence that he shouldn't have. and, you know, this was -- he didn't really know what he was and wasn't supposed to say. you heard dan coats yesterday, the director of national intelligence, speaking to lawmakers saying that no one really ever went over with him what -- there was no process involved. i think what you have with the
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british example is that u.s. law enforcement officials and other officials who are familiar and being briefed on the investigation are talking to cnn and other reporters here in the u.s. about the investigation. they want to look as it they are looking with their british counterparts. they want to be on top of it. maybe the dhachanges are going be the same. >> but they got out in front of the british. and not only is it annoying because they want to be in the lead of their investigation, this is damaging our element of surprise, they said, when we're going about our investigation. we're not coming out and saying these things because we want to protect the integrity of the investigation and we would appreciate that our u.s. counterparts who are working on the investigation understand that. >> is it usual, amy, that something like this would happen or does this happen all the time? >> no. it always happens, right? >> this is not unusual. this is very much like the president of the united states
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sharing classified information with a foreign adversary. this is difficult to keep all of the difficults under wraps. i absolute ly agree it's damagig to the investigation. in the united kingdom, they're focused on trying to undue what's in place here, whether he's working with somebody else. any detail that the bad guys can see means that they can get ahead of law enforcement. and so that's the problem but it's a different matter. >> let's look at the matter as it pertains to israel and if they do change how they are going to share information with the u.s. how does that affect things? the u.s. is trying to fight isis. >> right. >> what's the real effect here? >> it could be extraordinarily damaging. the information that they share -- that the president shared, in this case, was about an aviation plot. the results of that information was that the u.s. put in place a series of measures to protect passengers from that potential -- the consequences of
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that. and the information directly impacted the way we do business here. if we didn't have that information, that means there's a layer of defense that's missing and it puts us all at risk. >> i think what you'll see is the israelis be a lot more explicit about what you can tell allies, who you can tell and that. what usually happens in a process like this is officials go through it, go back to the ally and say, look, we want to share some of this with some of our other partners and friends and allies. what do you think is responsible for us to tell them? and there's a discussion between the two countries. i think the israelis are going to be a lot stricter about not -- i don't think the intelligence relationship is going to change. i think they're going to be a lot more clear about what they can and cannot share. >> no, really, you cannot share this. >> exactly. >> elise, amy, thank you so much for that. >> thank you. a close friend of james comey says the fired fbi director has a story to tell and that president trump should be scared. we'll have his warning ahead.
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plus, when talking about the trump campaign, the former cia director says oftentimes it's too late before people realize they have committed treason. what does that mean? we'll talk about that. and the pope and president trump, it's a rather complicated relationship, as you probably know, but after a war of words, they meet face-to-face for the first time. we'll see what happens.
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welcome back. i'm brianna keilar. fired national security adviser michael flynn has denied giving information to both members of congress a day after pleading a fifth to a senate intelligence committee. today, flynn has rejected document collection from the house. now the house committee ranking member, a democrat, plans to subpoena flynn for the paperwork and as flynn clams up, his former boss is shoring up an outside legal team. a senior administration official says it's expected that president trump will bring in marc kasowitz who has been his lawyer for more than 15 years. kasowitz has handled several well-known trump cases including against the author of "trump
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nation." the president did lose that case. also, the trump university class-action case which was settled at a cost of $25 million paid for by president trump. joining me now is a federal prosecutor for the northern district of illinois. i hear some people who would look at this and say, oh, my goodness, he's lawyering up. but when you talk to lawyers about it, they say, of course he is. your take? >> absolutely. i would recommend the same thing to the president in this circumstance. the president has a white house counsel but the white house counsel represents the office of the president of the united states, not donald trump in his personal capacity. so, for example, things that mr. trump did before he became the president of the united states would not be privileged. if he was talking about those matters with the white house counsel. similarly, if there are things that he's doing that are not in his official capacity, that are
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not part of the office of president, those would not be privileged if he's talking about those issues with the white house counsel. so it's very important for him to have his own attorney. >> it sort of takes some of this off the plate of white house counsel. obviously they are working on a lot of other things that have nothing to do with this russia investigation. i want to go back to something that we heard the former cia director john brennan say. he told a house intelligence panel that sometimes people may not know that they're on the path to treason. here's what he said. >> by the time i left office on january 20th, i had unresolved questions, in my mind, as to whether or not the russians had been successful in getting u.s. persons involved in the campaign or not to work on their behalf, again, either in a witting or unwitting fashion. frequently, individuals who go along a treasonous path do not even realize they are along that path until it gets to be a bit too late. >> so, this idea that he
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introduced yesterday, this idea that someone unwittingly could have participated in something that ultimately is treason, if, say, that did happen, if a member of the trump campaign or an associates of donald trump, would they be charged with colluding if he or she was not even aware that they were involved with something, say, a russian intelligence officer? >> so i think an important distinction that your viewers should realize is that treason -- there's something called treason. that's a specific crime and being charged with treason requires that you act intentionally to subvert your allegiance to the united states. but there are a variety of other things that you can do that are improper, like mishandling improper material or other things that you could do that -- you could, for example, make false statements or other things and what you might -- what i think, you know -- what i think
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he was referring to is that sometimes you might do things that you think, oh, well, this isn't such a big deal. i'll show this to this person or i'll try toll -- i'll fudge something here or there without realizing that the person that you're assisting is an agent of a foreign government. >> do you think the difference between the idea of something being treasonous, as maybe a layperson would use the word, and treason as you would use the word legally, you make that distinction there? >> exactly right. if someone, for example, is lying in order to protect russian interests, the average person might call that treason. but if he didn't know that the person he was lying on behalf of was a russian agent, perhaps it wouldn't legally fall within that definition although he may be committing some other crime. >> all right. let's talk about michael flynn. obviously he can refuse to speak but this idea of not cooperating when it comes to subpoenaing paperwork, you have the senate intel committee, they are looking at charging him possibly
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with contempt. what can they compel him to do with their actions? >> there's a few different things. they've issued subpoenas to corporate entities that he's affiliated with because corporations don't have a fifth amendment privilege. right now courts can change that. they've been giving more rights to corporations over time, the supreme court has. but they don't have a fifth amendment right. in addition, they could either -- they could -- the senate could give him i mmunity to the production of documents which would mean he'd have to give up the documents and they still could be used against him but the source of those documents would not be used against him. in other words, let's say he has some incriminating document. they could still use that document against mr. flynn but they could not say that they got it from him in that proceeding, or what they could also do is pursue contempt proceedings. either the senate could do that by themselves, which they have
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not done since 1935. they could have a full hearing and essentially a trial themselves or order him imprisoned or more likely, which they've done more recently, refer this matter to a criminal prosecutor and ultimately that u.s. attorney could decide whether or not to pursue contempt. >> we will see what happens, renato, thank you for being with us. >> you're welcome. next, on high alert after the manchester attack, the united kingdom raises its threat level to critical. that's the highest it's been in a decade. they are saying another attack could be imminent. the terror attack also triggering security changes here in the u.s., including at tonight's u2 concert. also, the white house considers a familiar yet controversial name to help advise the administration on crisis management. that's right. corey lewandowski kol soon be heading to the west wing. is that going to happen? we'll talk about that in a moment.
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suicide bomb. and just in, back home, homeland security is, quote, tracking upcoming events across the u.s. which includes nba playoff games and the indy 500. stadiums and arenas are on high alert, including tonight's u2 concert in houston. let's talk about this with cnn's ryan young. talk about this beefed up security at big events, including last night near chicago. >> absolutely. the weekend had a concert, 14,000 seats sold out and a lot of people showed up to that concert and one of the things that they did see also was armored vehicles and police with long guns. dogs were also outside to make sure everything was okay. we even talked to a group of young ladies who came over from great britain who said they were scared about going to the concert but with all of the extra security, they were glad to see the extra, beefed up
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patrols. >> we got slightly scared but it didn't stop us. >> i feel pretty safe out here. >> be careful tomorrow night and be safe considering what happened in manchester. >> reporter: we heard over and over again police officers telling us they want to make sure people going to these events, they see something strange, they say something. the beefed up security is something that we'll see throughout the memorial day weekend. you name some of those events that are going to be pretty big this weekend, even here in chicago outside of wrigley field, there was an announcement. they are going to add 30 new cameras to the outside of that and make sure that people are safe. we've seen several changes to arenas throughout the country where clear bags are only allowed on the inside but now that extended perimeter, we've talked about this before with airport safety, how far can you
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extend it? and of course with those large gathering events like the nba, nascar, you may see a further pushout of that security where you'll see checkpoints to make sure people mulling around will now be checked and scrutinized once again. >> ryan young, thank you for that update. police say it's going to be several days before they officially release the names of all of the victims in manchester. but one by one, families and schools as well are confirming that their loved ones have passed. the campbells are one of those families. you heard olivia's mom and dad pleading for help yesterday trying to find their missing daughter olivia. but a few hours later, olivia's mom confirmed on facebook that she's gone. "rest in peace, olivia campbell taken far, far too soon. mommy loves you so much" in olivia's memory, we wanted to
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share some of that interview so you can hear her mom describe her personality in her own words. >> she's just a bubbly child. i you're feeling down, she'll make you laugh. she'll hook you until you smile again. she's always there no matter how she's feeling. she'll put everybody else first. so many people knew her. >> we had no problem with her going to the concert. a young lad got the tickets for his birthday. she likes music.
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yeah, it was -- >> it was like a dream come true. >> she wanted to see it. and as far as we were concerned, manchester is several minutes away. >> hundreds of people. >> hundreds of people. >> it was half past 8:00. she said they were amazing and she was waiting for ariana to come on. she thanked me and said she loved me and that was the last i heard from her. she's my baby and i miss her so much.
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my doctor recommended ibgard to manage my ibs. take control. ask your doctor about nonprescription ibgard. the white house is preparing for what could be a long and challenging fight over the trump/russia probe and the administration could be turning to a controversial figure from the campaign trail for help. sources tell cnn that former trump campaign manager, corey lewandowski is going to possibly come on as an adviser. trump fired lewandowski last year and in the meantime republicans keep getting questions like this. >> does it concern you that he was asked to leave and then he asked the fbi director jim comey to let flynn go? >> yeah, so i don't know the r
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voracity of these things. that's why we have an investigation. what i'm not going to do is comment on things that are under ongoing review. we've got three investigations going on right now. we have a house intelligence committee investigation, the senate intelligence committee investigation and a special counsel ran by bob mueller. he's a highly credible person. >> cnn chief political correspondent dana bash and white house reporter is joining me right now. all of this is happening as we see this new poll out and it shows that most americans think that president trump has abused his power and his approval rating is really not good. >> it's not good. just to be fair and for context, this particular poll tends to skew a little lower for donald trump than others. however, even by the context of this poll, it isn't good. >> compared to last month? >> yeah. last month it was much better for the president. now it's lower.
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it's 37%. i mean, that is really alarming and it's not just that. if you look into the poll, it's -- some of the core support that he's relied on, working-class white voters, they are still supportive of him but he's slipped with those voters. that's something that there's no question that the white house is watching and, most importantly, the republicans who are all on the ballot on the house side are looking at as well. >> that must be very alarming to the white house. >> there is a lot of optimism and they have their own polls. republican strategists were telling me that the approval rating is improving this week, that the overseas trip has been good for him and they are looking to getting back on their agenda this week. they acknowledge that it's been a rough ride. they are very optimistic and hope with a special prosecutor, it will cool the temperature in the room and things will get back to normal in washington. but how many times have we heard
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that open optimism before. we'll see. >> one of the things in terms of numbers and politics and how the president's approval rating may or may not affect it, it's not just about 2018, it's about tomorrow. literally tomorrow. there's a special election tomorrow in montana and then later in georgia. montana republican strategists focused on this are worried. they don't think they are going to lose it but the polls have tightened and not in a good way. >> they should want to be very comfortable with that. >> exactly. >> the president is putting forth a budget. what does that mean for his core supporters if he's shown losing support? and then check this out, listen to a relationshpublican describ of the math used in this. this is mark sanford. actually, no. we're going to talk about john mccain. so mark sanford, congressman, has come out and said this is not real, this idea of the growth, really the math,
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projected economic growth and how everything would have to be constructed around that number. you spoke to senator john mccain as well about this, right? >> and this is really what is fascinating. i'm not sure they have the sound. we have it. let's play it and talk about it on the other side. >> my reaction is it's probably dead on arrival. my second reaction is that old line about figures lie and figures lie? that's not a 10% increase in spending. it's a 3% increase in spending. >> so, the white house needs to obviously realize that when they are trying to explain to republicans, especially those who are debt and deficit hawks, those who are very keen, like john mccain, on increasing defense spending, much more even than the president proposed, that they need to know that they have people like that out there. and so that is -- again, these are republicans saying dead on
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arrival because they believe that these numbers, that these books are cooked and even he said that these are lying number gls and his budget is really politically toxic to a lot of people and republicans, even before it came out where they had a sense of where it was going, they were quick to say, listen, these priorities are not our priorities. you get a bigger bang for your buck. we don't want to see millions of people losing medicaid. even some of the deficit hawks say we don't want to go after pbs and big bird. they realize it's not politically appealing for their base either. >> shannon, dana, thank you so much. next, a personal friend of james comey says president trump should be scared. hear why, next. and the pope suggests that the president doesn't act like a christian and then they came face-to-face today. see what happened. and how sean spicer, a devout catholic, was not included in the v.i.p. meeting
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welcome back. as we return to the investigation of trump campaign ties to russia, the big question hovering over the beltway, will fired fbi director james comey testify before the senate intelligence committee as expected after memorial day? washington insiders wonder if special counsel robert mueller is even going to allow it. if it does go through, though, a friend of james comey gave an ominous hint about what could lie ahead for the president. >> i have no doubt that he regarded the group of people around the president as dishonorable. this is a guy with a story to tell. i think if i were donald trump, that would scare me a lot. >> i want to turn now to the assistant managing editor of cnn's washington bureau. wow. he's saying that comey has things to say that are going to be damaging to president trump. >> and that he wants to say them publicly. you know, we're hearing the same
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thing, that if and when comey testifies, which is probably the week after next, he certainly wants to do it in public. he doesn't want it to be behind closed doors. he wants the spotlight, which he's been in before and he has some stories to tell. >> donald trump said he's a showboat. you know, he's sort of accused him of that. >> he's said worse than that. >> but it also seems that comey, certainly recently when it comes to some of these issues, he wants to hear them and he wants them out there. when he was fbi director, that's perhaps not the best way but he's compelled to do. >> sure. you remember last july, the famous press conference over the hillary clinton e-mail case, its with a 12-minute recap of an investigation that didn't even bring charges. he got a lot of criticism for that and ten years ago he gave a very famous senate testimony about his confrontation in a hospital room with george w.
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bush's lawyers. so he is -- he's very comfortable in that spotlight. trump may call him a showboater but others would say he's just someone that wants the story out there. >> that july moment that you're talking about related to hillary clinton, that one was of the things that the deputy a.g. cited, the idea that you would have a press conference to explain that there aren't going to be charges brought. >> right. >> so bob mueller, who's now been appointed by the justice department to go ahead and look independently at these possible connections between the trump campaign and russia, he's going to speak to comey before this. >> sure. >> that's what we know, right? >> yes. and they are very close. they work together for years after 9/11 when mueller was the head of the fbi and comey was at the justice department. >> mueller says, look, can you just cool it so i can do my
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investigation? what is the expectation on whether that is going to happen? >> i'm sure they will have a conversation. i'm sure that they will talk out what the legal complications could be and, you know, the spectacle of ali north and point dexter testified before congress created all kinds of legal problems with the justice department which was ultimately thrown out and it was seen as tainted in some way. the last thing they want is it to hurt any possible criminal case. my guess -- and it's only a guess -- that at the end of the day, comey gets the green light to testify but not about the investigation itself, not that he'll say, you know, the russia investigation is off limits but that he would be able to say what the president said to him and be able to quash the investigation. >> which is the big deal. >> some say it's the smoking gun. >> we will see. eric, thank you so much for
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that. interesting for sure. next, the art of the deal visits the vatican. president trump meeting pope francis after calling him disgraceful. and also, sean spicer is feeling slighted after not being able to meet the pope which is a huge honor for someone who is a catholic. [team member] so, how can i help you? [customer] have you ever walked into the paint store feeling like you should really know more than you know? satin versus semi-gloss, and...i don't know! [team member] yes...i know the feeling. [customer] that's how i feel right now about all the financing options for this project i'm doing. i feel like i should know more than i know. [team member] don't sweat it. we have this new tool--my credit options guide-- that gives you a customized comparison like this, which helps you discover which credit options might be right for you. [customer] oh, this is better. they should make one for paint. [team member] want to get started? [customer] sure. went to ancestry, i put in the names of my grandparents first. i got a leaf right away.
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a meeting of minds over a year in the making has finally happened. pope francis and president trump putting a war of words behind them inside of the vatican. the two met today in a private 30-minute session and reports are that the mood was kind of tense in the beginning but when it was over, here's what happened. >> thank you very much.
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i won't forget what you said. good luck. >> that's pretty good, right? the relationship has not always been this cordial. pretty contentious, in fact, during the election like this. >> translator: a person who thinks about building walls wherever they may be and not building bridges is not a christian. >> if and when the vatican is attacked by isis, which, as everyone knows, is isis' ultimate trophy, i can promise you that the pope would have only wished and prayed that donald trump would have been present for a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. >> what a difference an election
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makes. joining me is tara palmieri and also joining us on the phone, john allen, editor of "the crux" and author of "the francis miracle." thanks to both of you for being here. there are reports that the pontiff left quite an impression on the president and that the topics of terrorism, the paris accord came up. john, when the president clearly said to the pontiff that what he had said made a big impact on him, what do you think that could have been? >> well, i think actually from president trump's point of view, this meeting probably went about as well as he could have envisioned. frankly, if he had scribbled out the outcome on a cocktail napkin with a pen, which would be in character for this president, i don't think you could have envisioned a better outcome. first of all, the chemistry between the two men, particularly towards the end of
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the meeting, was obviously quite warm. secondly, if you look at the statements that the vatican put out afterwards, there was a deliberate effort to play down issues of contention and to play up the issues where pope francis and president trump might be able to find common ground. the statement led with the joint commitment of the defense of human life which is, of course, vatican speak for the fight against abortion, religious freedom and freedom of conscience. there was recently an executive order put out on religion freedom. despite the obvious differences between francis and trump, their differences on immigration, poverty relief, so on, that in this meeting, they wanted the climate to be upbeat and the focus on where they could agree. >> tara, i want to ask you a question about protocol because it's so important on these
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visits. and to that point, the issues of veils is something that many observers were wondering about. is melania, the first lady, going to wear a veil in saudi arabia. she did not. some have head her outfit evoked even though she didn't wear a veil. but she did at the vatican and so did ivanka trump. what did you think about the choices on protocol there? >> i think the difference is that the pope requested that they wear a veil. this is standard for anyone who is visiting the pope. and whereas in saudi arabia, they didn't actually make that request that they vwear veils. it's not illegal for foreign women to veils. so i think the difference is the request and symbolism of it and it's respect for the pope and it doesn't have a broader em plication. >> tell us, john, about the
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gifts that they gave to each other. this is significant and a lot of thought behind them. >> yes. they present gifts to the pope and the pope does likewise. this is hardly something that is unique to the president of the united states. but president trump presented pope francis with a collection of the writings of martin luther king jr. which is a carefully thought-out move because if you remember when pope francis spoke to congress last september, he lifted up four great americans that he admired in a particular way and one of them was martin luther king so trump ha bed bee well briefed about the likeness of pope francis. pope francis gave the president a mini statue, a bronze medallion that was the depiction of an olive tree which was
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described as a symbol of peace saying that he wanted the president to be an agent of peace. he wanted him to be someone who would work for peace and it's quite likely that at the end of the meeting, when we overheard president trump on the way out saying to pope francis that i will not forget what you said to me, that may well be part of what he had in mind. >> tara, i want to ask you about something. as we look at this opportunity, this photo opportunity, there's someone missing and a lot of people are talking about how sean spicer, the very visible representative of the white house who is an extremely devout catholic, was not included. and we actually have some reporting by cnn that he felt left out by this, which you cannot blame him for. what happened? >> i think what you're seeing is the disenchantment that president trump has expressed to his aides with sean spicer.
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my sources have told me that he suggested that he feels that some of the newcomers that came on with the rnc, reince priebus, they are not as loyal to him as keith shiller who had a chance to go and visit the pope. he's a bodyguard. he's been around since the beginning of the campaign and dan ska veen know who has worked for the president for 15 years. white house officials are saying that you may not see sean spicer again at the podium after this trip so it would make sense that the president would start limiting his appearances and these people are very close to trump. they are literally family. he really values loyalty and blood and there is something to it. as a reporter, when i make a phone call to the press office and it's about reince priebus, i get a quicker response than i do when it's about the president. there's a sort of loyalty towards him because he was the one who brought them into the white house and trump wants to know that the loyalty is to him,
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first and foremost. >> very good point. tara palmeri in brussels and john allen, thank you to both of you. i'm brianna keilar. we're beginning this hour with our breaking news. the brother of the manchester concert bomber has just been arrested, accused of planning a second terror attack in libya in the syrian capital. five people are now in custody with the bombing as police say they believe the bomber was part of a wider terror network. the country has raised its terror threat level to imminent attack. this is the first time that it's done so in a decade. all of this is as we get word from u.s. officials that the attacker went to libya and returned just days before walking into the concert of ariana grande. joining me now is barbara starr, our senior pentagon