tv Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown CNN June 18, 2017 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
believe to push that person toward police, does that give you any clues? >> yes, one of the benefits of hearing something like that is this is not an ongoing incident. so if there were multiple people or multiple events, we would certainly know thaty now. it doesn't mean this isn't scary or animated from a political belief. it means this being a able to get the driver, the public engaging and getting the driver to the police at least tells me from an operational perspective that this is not an ongoing threat. but now the lon dob b police have got to it tell us, the people who will be waking up, what this is. as i said earlier, their failure to do that so far is significant
at this stage. but i think that the immediate threat i would say this stage is at least contained given the descriptions we have seen so far. >> the fact that they have not put out any warnings to people nearby, although we heard from cynthia say that she was witnessing what appeared to be police going to buildings and houses in that surrounding area. does that make sense to you? >> what you want to do in a case like this, the person is apprehended, but you have to make sure there aren't multiple attacks. we have seen it enough, unfortunately n western europe lately. so keeping civilians, reb the time. this is late on sunday night in the sense that people are home. keeping them in their homes. people get curious. they hear things and come watch and then that becomes a soft target for further attacks.
so part of this is trying to contain the population and the citizens within their homeso the curious do not become vulnerable targets if there are multiple attacks. the police are going to be worried there might have been others in the car that got away. but this is exactly what we do in these kinds of attacks. e we want to limit the ground zero space and you do not want populations coming towards it. we have seen previous terrorist attacks where it's the second one or third one that get people who were curious about the first attack certainly in the boston marathon bombing the second attack harmed some people running towards the first bomb. the second bomb was placed down the street in a way that would have impacted first responders. >> it does appear looking at the
video they have cordoned off that area, but on the careen k one we presented to the viewers from cynthia was taken very quickly after the incident took place. i want to just reset for our viewers who may be just joining us now who are tuning in to what we are seeing. what we have learned roigt now is there was some kind of an incident right after midnight. reports that a vehicle has colied with pedestrians and there are several casualties. the video you're look iing at there is brand new just in from the scene. we don't know how many casualties there are, but we do know at least one person has been arrested according to police. a witness i spoke to moments ago said police were performing cardiac massage on one victim who waon the ground. this happened on seven sisters road north of central london. officers say they were called to the scene there shortly after
midnight local time. it's now just after 2:00 a.m. i want to bring back in our cnn national security analyst peterbergen who is familiar with this area. we have learned so much information just from that eyewitness who didn't see the actual incident itself, but she was able to give us a great description of what has happened since then. did you have a chance to listen in and if so, what stood out to you? >> well, the witness seemed to imply that the targets of the attack were muslims leaving the mosque. and the mosque that the visited in the past is a notorious mosque historically. the viewers may recall him
because e he a distinctive appearance. he had one eye and hooks for hands because of an accident. but it attracted many militants to his mosque. the shoe bomber and others, this was a place that i'm giving you a history here. if you were interested in targeting a group of muslims at a mosque that was notorious, this would be the mosque you would do it at. i think it's significant that they had the reputation historically of being one of the most militant mosques in london. and that reputation may be more
historical than current. this was a place where many militants in the past came to worship and was run by a guy who was now serving a lifetime in a u.s. prison. i mention that because if the person driving this was planning to target a particular mosque, muslims working at a particular mosque, this might be part of his calculation. >> police just confirming there were reports of a vehicle and collision with pedestrians. they said officers responded with other emergency services and a number of casualties being worked on at the scene. e e we heard from that eyewitness following the event that there were at least two people that she saw on the ground and at least one person
appeared to have serious injuries. it appeared they were doing cardiac ma salk saj. now she says that the emergency crews have since left the scene. presumably the manss were taking people to the hospital. she said that police still had a heavy presence in the area and that it appeared they were going to buildings and houses around this area as they continue an she did say s s one pson t. being put in a police car that there were there was yelling outside heroine doe when she locked out there were huge crowds that are gathered and people yelling and shouting trying to get police officers attention and they were pushing a person toward police when they arrived on scene. again, we don't know if that person was the person who was drive iing the vehicle involved the collision or how that person is connected. these are all pieces of information we're hoping to get answers on when police are putting out more information.
the last time police tweeted or put police information out on their twitter account was now over half an hour ago. this incident again happening a little after midnight. they said local time so that's been more than two hours ago. you talked about the fact they aren't giving more information as being a a bad sign. >> yers, at this stage, the fac that we're not hearing it was a drunk driver or drugs suggests that the explanation is more complicated and political and that they want to get the story right.
as we started to focus on the geography, if this was a hate crime or terrorism, based on an mouse towards the muslim population then focusing on a specific mosque. now the timing makes more sense. because people may have been leaving the mosque at that time. but we're now at a stage where e we probably do need to hear from police. unfortunately, another night in
london where someone is utilizing a car as a weapon of destruction. >> peter, because this is happening during ramadan, does that raise or heighten your questions in terms of whether this person was targeting muslims in particular? >> particularly in a country like the united kingdom where the days are very long in june, you're fasting from dawn to dusk and then you're breaking the fast at night. now in the united kingdom right now they are at the height of summer. there's a large number at the
mosque breaking their fast and praying at this time of night, which accounts for the pictures we're seeing with kwielt a number of people being out and wearing white gowns and so that would be the significance of ramadan in this context. >> again, we're locking at pictures from the scene. on the left side, video recently into the newsroom here at cnn. we see a lot of emergency vehicles on the scene. a lot of flashing lights and a heavy police presence. again, we're bringing you the information as we're getting it. clearly, juliette, there's the question that we have been asking now multiple times. there's been so many attacks in london. we don't know what kind of attack this one is, but the fact that a vehicle has been used and has done significant harm in
this idea of how do you prevent something like that. >> it is almost impossible in urban environments. especially in a situation like this. after london bridge, after other e attacks, we use mobile barriers, truck, other things to protect big urban areas now that there's a growing concern about vehicles being use. if you look around, you'll be surprised how many mobile barriers there are. public safety doesn't advertise them. a way it needs to minimize the posbility that a car would get on to a bridge or a major public area or park. the challenge here is describing you basically have a residential area. you're never going to be able to minimize all risk as regard as
someone just driving along. so that's the challenge because this can be very catastrophic attacks depending on the success of the use of the vehicle. it's a different kind of attack than a bomb or a gun. but one that can have a lot of damage. what is interesting about this from what we're picking up at least some reporting going on now is that the individual picked up seemed fin. this could be a situation where someone with a lot of hatred and possibly directed towards the muslim community in london using
a car to harm them at a great time of religious -- this is the moment in ramadan and families are together and fast iing all day. there are children there. this is not sort of a random moment when it comes to islam and therefore, making it devastating for that community if as we're hearing and being reported this was targeted. this goes to simply because terrorism takes many forms. we should not be afraid to utilize that word even if the targets or if the targets are the muslim community, terrorism is attacks on a civilian population for ideological purposes and if this is based on a hate crime, but it may be something more. >> considering that cynthia, the
witness on the scene, that was saying that the ambulances had left when she was locking out her window and police were going dor to door or the builds in the different houses in the area rkts why wouldn't law enforcement say we're still doling with but here's what e we do know? >> i'm surprised right now we haven't heard more. i'm monitoring and your team is monitoring. i had a very different tone with you an hour ago. what that says to me now based on the delay in time is that they don't have an explanation of sort of mere negligence. this is not a drunk driver. this is not someone on drugs. this is something more and they
node to get that story right. i respect them for that. if this is an attack on the muz lymph community given what has been going on in that country, they need to get that story right. but the delay we are now over an hour of any official statement makes me feem believes bayeon past experiences there is probably a bad story to tell in terms of the intentionality of the person who did this against a population. by now you would know if he was drunk or on drugs. >> peter bergen, given this is an area that's a busy zone that is known to have this mosque, as you have described it, would you have anticipated there would be a higher security presence in this area on a night like tonight given its ramadan and knowing this is a city that is on high alert.
>> as juliette said, we live in urban societies. and we can't turn them into fortresses. i think this is quite unexpected. the pattern of events that we have seen in london the past several months have been jihadist attacks that have succeeded and some haven't succeeded. there were two attacks that did succeed since march, but because this is what it appears to be a targeted attack on muslims, that is not something that we have seen.
i'm trying to rack my brain thinking of an attack that was directed at the muslim community in this way. i think it would be hard to criticize british authorities for not anticipating this kind of thing because london is one of the largest muslim cities in the world. where this incident took place this terms of many muslims. so you couldn't protect every place muslims worship in london. it would be an impossible task. but if this is what it appears to be, that this kind of incident was not something that
might happen, obviously it would change. but i think picking up on what was said earlier, the mayor of london is a muslim. he's made a number of important statements about london is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. if this turns out to be a targeted attack on muslims, this is another kind of incident that breathes uncertainty in the city that has been quite a lot of terrorism of late and adds to the the general uncertainty that we saw in the election that just took place. this strong e showing of the labor b party. there's theresa may thought she
would win in a landslide. and i think this will be another incident that confirms for them that they are living in a time of real uncertainty. >> and peter, given that london and the uk have experienced so many incidents, we have ian lee now on the phone joining us. he's at the scene right now. ian, what are you seeing? what can you tell us? >> can you tell me what you're seeing on the scene? [ inaudible ]
>> we can't hear you roigt now. i'm not sure if we have a mike issue, but we want to talk to you as soon as we can get that sorted and get a sense of what's happening on the ground. let's go back to peter bergen and the fact that sadly there's been too many incidents and tragedies that londoners and people in the united kingdom have had to deal with. obviously, ian lee is in a place where it's loud there. we can hear a lot of commotion.? i'm getting no answer. but we're e seeing some more images right now. is this from ian's camera, you guys?
i see ian there in front of the camera. and now we have an eyewitness who is on the telephone line, so standby. we'll some kom back when we get the issues sorted out. hill ary, if you can hear me, please talk to me about what you have witness ed tonight. >> so we were walking home. everything was fine. then maybe half an hour later or so, i started hearing a lot of commotion on the street. i could see everything from my window so i looked at what was happening.
it was next to the park station. a car had slided with people exiting the mosque after prayer. there was a a lot of commotion going on. there was around it and shout ing at the man. it was the person who had hit. everybody was being pushed back. some were saying this was an act of terror. >> let me stop you for just a moment because i'm having a hard time hearing you. i want to make sure i understand what you just said. did you hear people shouting
saying this was an act of terror? >> yes, ab act of white supremacist attack and people were shouting this is an act of terrorism, even though he's white, these were the koind of comments they were yelling out. this is an fact of terror, they began pushing people back. they were saying we can't give you permission at the moment and people had been injured and to get back as far back as ponl to get emergency services through. they pushed people back and i went back into my flat. they had been watching things
unfold. >> so did you see the person who indent who may have been this driving the vehicle? >> no, i saw a lot of people crowding around somebody, but i couldn't see. there were a lot of people. you never know what can happen next. i did see the white van. >> so it was a van that you saw. do you know how many people were injured or have any injured or how many might have been injured? >> i'm not sure. there were at least three people who were injured because we were being pushed back. so they could get emergency services through. but i think tlmp more.
that's just a number i can say for sure. >> what more can you tell me e about the crowd that was outside that you were interacting with when you got out there? where did they come from? there had been a prayer event that was going on nearby and people were just exiting that? >> e yes, it's one of the biggest in the u.s. it's a private community and people were there for prayer. i was on my way home and there were a lot of people who had come out from prayer, but also citizen who is live on the street who had come out to see what was happening. z and the women and children and a lot of young adults and adults, women crying, a lot of people panicking. there was a lot of shouting in arabic, so i can't tell you exactly what was being said.
some of the people, there were sho shouting. people wanted to get closer and the police were calm, not rising to any agitation and just trying to get people back far enough to put up a call. but that calmed down quickly and did move back. in terms of the citizens, everybody is cooperating and a lot of people standing outside trying to see what's happening. >> did police give you any idea of what they were dealing with? did they give you information on b scene to say this is what we know?
>> people are injured and trying to get help. >> they can't tell us anymore at the moment. it just goes down. i live above a market and they have been giving away 12 packs and inside as much as possible. >> thank you so much for sharing what you can with us. e we really appreciate it. we are just getting a tweet now. this is coming from the muslim council of britain saying we have been informed that a van has run over worshippers as they
left the mosque. our prayers are with the vi victims. right now, police still not confirming what's going on, but we do know that there were reports of a vehicle with collision and emergency services and that there are a thunderstorm of casualties being worked on. that was the latest that we had. bringing everybody up to speed who is just joining us, we are following breaking news out of london. reports that a vehicle collided with pedestrians and there are several casualties. this is brand new video just in from the scene. we are told there are a number of casualties and one person was arrested. we spoke with another eyewitness who saw police performing cardiac massage on at least one vict victim. this happened on seven sisters road north of central london and that tweet i just read to you from the council of britain saying we have been informed
that a van has run over worshippers as they left finsbury park mosque. they were called to the scene shortly after midnight local time. it's now nearly 2:30 in the morning. i spoke a short time ago with a woman who lives close to where this happened. she described what she heard and saw. >> it's a a corner right in front across the road from my apartment. and they are very nervous shouting very loud. trying decembsperately to make time to a police car that was just passing the road. is km in a matter of seconds,
many cars arrived just after that. i didn't see exactly what happened. i saw it was skreesming and shouting and very nervous. >> do you know where all these people came from? were people just hanging out in the street? was there an event going on? >> no, what happens is that this community in london is a very mixed community. it has people from many countries and cultures and e we all live perfectly fine. i never saw anything close to this happen at all. we have a church in one road. an angelic church in another corner in a a mosque across the road as well. and we never had any problem at all in here. but whachs what happens is that
usually when they say prayers, they gather to talk for a bit. i'm guessing there was more of them because it was ramadan. so i'm guessing they were the victims because they were desperate. i saw so many of them crying and screaming, so i'm guessing if someone were run over people maybe they were there. >> the people you saw crying and trying to get police attention, they appeared to be muslim? how could you tell? >> they were all wearing the white muslim.
because i'm so used to seeing them every day, i just assume there's some muslims between the victims i saw on the floor. >> we are hearing from police based on what they have put out, the information that we have that there are multiple casualties or a number of casualties are the words they used. from your vantage point, could you see how many people may have been injured? >> i saw a lot of people injured. they were trying to get away from the scene. i saw at least two on the floor. i saw at least two of them on the floor. one of them maybe was really, really bad hurt because i saw a police officer doing cardiac massage trying to resuscitate them. so i'm guessing at least one of
them was really, really bad hurt. i'm not sure about the others, but paramedics were working ob the floor for quite some time. they just left them. >> so there's an ambulance that has come and gone. are there still people laying on the ground? >> the road is still closed. there's many police officers around. but most of the people have dispersed now. there were some houses around. i can see them trying to talk to witnesses as well. there's one more car. all the ambulances, all of the victims.
>> what i saw, i saw some on the internet after. i saw when the first police car arrived, these people were pushing someone towards the place. they were mad. i drnt see inside. it locked like a man that was being arrest. and the person who poste said their guy had run over people on that corner. >> who said their guy had run over people on the corner?
>> with a car, i don't know what kind of car. >> you didn't see the vehicle that was involved in this? >> no, because there was a lot of people in front of it. there's always some cars parked in the way so maybe it's one of those. i can see half of the road here. it's just further down. it's like take him and put him in a police officer. took him away. but i didn't see anyone else after. >> so you did see they. put somebody in a police car. it was a male. did you see what he was wearing or anything else to provide a description for that person? >> not really. i could see that was in the
first moment when there was a lot of people in the first police car arrived, so everybody was nervous. there was a lot of people together. easily 200 people or probably more in a corner of this access road. i saw after i could consider his it a little more, but not sure if i could describe him. >> when you said there's 200 people, that's a lot of people. were those folks that were already outside do you believe? or just eventually came to the scene? >> yeah, definitely run to the scene. it was a little access road. it's just one block away from the entrance of the main station. so that's why it took he awhile
to go to the window. . then i realized. >> that was a witness who was nearby when she heard kmoegs on the street outside her apartment and locked out to see this gathering of people who were in a panic after a vehicle ran over pedestrians. we're waiting to hear more information from police. but we have received a tweet from the muslim council of britain that reads, we have been informed that a van has run over worshippers as they left the mosque. our prayers are with the victims. finsbury park mosque is happening on seven sisters rod. it's a big intersection. i want to bring in the senior editor at the islamic monthly. thank you for being with us. what's your reaction to what we're learning?
>> obviously, i'm saddened to hear about this attack that took place in finsbury park. i think it just is a sad continuation of a cycle of violence we're seeing in the last and it's something that communities of color and minority communities have to grapple with right now in the western areas today. >> it's important to note that police have not said this is an act of terror. we don't know who exactly was involved or what their motivations were. but we do understand at least one person is under arrest according to police statement. we also heard from that eyewitness telling us that when police arrived, people on the scene were pushing a person toward police. so clearly it sounds like there were citizens on scene taking
action trying to right the situation. we're waiting to learn more about what the situation is. but would it make sense to you that there would be a large gathering of people at a mosque on a sunday night during ramadan? >> ab slosolutely. we have our nightly prayers where hundreds of people come to their local mosque s s to pray h their fellow muslims. i think something important to keep in mind is that it is an act of terrorism when somebodies to kill any group of people. that cannot be underscore d. when a person drives their van into a large group of pedestrians seeking to kill and maim, that's an act of terrorism day definition. >> what do you know about this area? i understand you're familiar.
>> my wife lived in london for ten years. it's a very diverse area. people from all sorts of backgrounds. if this turns out to be an attack on the local mosque, it was targeting the musli communities there. london hasvery, very large muslim population. some statistics show that people in london, it's a multicultural area and it's a tragedy regardless of where it occurred. >> we really appreciate your time. thank you again for joining us. senior editor. i want to speak now. she was inside the mosque during the attack and witnessed the aftermath. what can you tell me? >> basically when we finished, i
stayed behind to talk to someone. after that, i heard people shouting and screaming. people were saying go inside, go inside, it's not safe. then i didn't listen and i kept walking and then the crime scene, i saw some people laying down. sadly one of them was dead. and then police moved us. that's what happened. and also someone was arrested. i believe it was the criminal. >> a friend of yours was with someone was hit, we understand? >> sorry? >> i'm being told that a friend of yours was with somebody who
was hit by this n. >>y frie, her brother was injured. i couldn't talk to hir becse police beliemoved me. >> what do you know ashlt the people that were injured? >> all of them from mosque when they were leaving. >> did you see how many people were on the ground and may have been injured? >> at that time, there were four people. one of them, i believe, was dead. the rest were badly injured. >> i'm so sorry to hear that. who was gathered at the mosque? how many people were there as part of the prayer service tonight? >> can you tell us more about how many people were there at the mosque this evening and gathered and what this event exact ly was and how this unfolded? >> well, it's ramadan so
obviously we pray. there's a lot of people there. at that time, there were people outside. first, i thought it was a fight or someone was stabbed, but then it was a terrorist attack. >> so somebody seemed to think this was a terrorist attack immediately? >> yeah. >> why is that? >> because he targeted people and he killed people. he tried to kill a lot of people. so obviously, it's a terrorist attack. he targeted muslims this time. >> you believe muslims were targeted. >> yeah,hewere. 100%. >> again, we appreciat you spend iing some time. we're sorry for what you witnessed tonight. glad you personally are safe. thank you again for joining us. i want to bring in security
analyst peter bergen now joining us. you have been listening. we're starting to get more information about who was on scene here. we have now confirmed that there was an event at the mosque this evening and that people outside the mosque appear to be the target of this vehicle that plowed into pedestrians. we don't know exactly the motivation. we don't know the person who was behind the wheel. we don't have the information about the number of casualties. what we do know from police is there was a vehicle and collision with pedestrians and officers responded to the scene along with other emergency services. there were a number of casualties being worked on at the scene one person has been arrested. that's the only information out there. this mosque apparently had a lot to do with what was happening in that area at the time when this attack occurred.
>> yeah, so we have had absolute ly no evidence that the perpetrator that this was an accident or that he was impaired in some way. we have the muslim council s saying muslims were deliberately targeted. several eyewitnesss that have talked to you confirm that in various different ways. so we have what looks like a targeted attack ob muslims leaving a mosque in north london. a mosque which, by the way, has certainly had a history of attracting militants in the past. and while we don't know the motivation, if you were somebody planning to make a statement, it would be the place you want to make it because it's only been associated with people who are now in the united states prisons on life sentences and i say all this and i'm referring to the
history of the mosque. if you wanted to make a statement, this is a mosque where islamist militants are gathered in the past and this might be part of the calculation of the perpetrator if this is terrorism. london is part sort of kind of a mix of working middle class or muslims live in north london. it's oneover the largest muslim cities in the world odds the middle east or south asia. the mayor of london is a muslim. and i think this all contributed to a feeling in london of uncertainty when you had terrorist attacks in march all the the westminster bridge than more recently at the london
bridge and a number of terrorists have been averted. it appears to be very different. and i think juliette was saying earlier terrorism, what is the definition? harm directed at civilians. and this attack seems deliberate. somebody tried to kill members of a republican delegation. i think this attack if it is terrorism there's very little doubt that this is terrorism. terrorism can come from any number of political ideologies. from the left, from the right,
neonazis, anti-immigration activists and i think that's where we are tonight. >> i want to bring back the senior editor at the islamic monthly. as we're continuing to learn that it appears that there were a lot of muslim people in this area and that many of them were the target of this van that ran into pedestrians that police are now investigating, do you feel that muslims were under attack? >> it's come out with a public statement saying that some of their worshippers were targeted in this attack and as peter was mentioning, the term terrorism is something that should become to apply to any act of mass murder that's meant to send terror across the population. and i think it's really important to keep in mind had the driver of this van been a
muslim, this would have been call ed an act of terrorism. now when the victims happen to be muslim, we see a lot more trepidation in using that term. i think we have to get away from the double standards of our societies and call an act of terrorism regardless of who the victims are and who the perpetrators are. >> i think we're careful to go there until we hear from a word from the authorities on the scene. we don't have all the nfgts at this time, but i think you bring up a good point. let me bring back juliette who are is joining us via skype. we have not >> we still have not heard any information from the law enforcement there. >> that is exactly right. so, what that says is that there is no denying explanation for this tragedy. in other words, it's not drugs, it's not drunk driving.
this is something that the police are both investigating because they want to make sure that other mosques that might be vulnerable are protected at this stage. remember it's ramadan. this is not just a safer time for the muslim community. it is also a family time. so, you have multiple generations visiting mosques at the very time this has happened. and, so, i would anticipate as i've been saying that the absence of anything being said by the metropolitan police since those tweets almost over an hour ago now means that they are trying to figure out what the story is and what they should be saying to the public. if this is, as we now -- as peter and i have been saying, certainly looks like it based on our expertise, a targeted attack, targeted terrorist attack against the muslim community, if that is where the evidence is going, the first thing you are going to want to do is to harden to the extent you can mosques throughout
london because of ongoing ramadan festivities. and remind your viewers for, you know, christians in this country, the attack in south carolina on church goers in the church had a particular significance. there are places of worship seen in this day and age of horribleness, could be places where faith and kindness can thrive. and, so, the particular horror of targeting a mosque as the eyewitnesses and the recordings show cannot be underestimated for a community that is a huge population within london, certainly, and makes up -- it's diversity and vibrancy in a city that is really a sort of center
for the kind of diversity that many nations wish that they could have. so, that is where this is going. i have no, no doubts any more that we will hear from the metropolitan police to tell us news regarding the purposefulness of this attack and they are just probably trying to figure out who the perpetrator is and making sure there is no one else. it is to protect others in the muslim communities, protect the mosques. people will be waking up in two or three hours going to the monthsi mosque for morning prayers. they have to make sure people are protected, the number one priority now. >> what we know from police now is a vehicle collided with pedestrians. the muslim council of britain put out a statement saying they were told by law enforcement it was a van who hit worshippers who were leaving the mosque in this area, the simsbury mosque in the northern part of london, north of the central part of that city on seven sisters road. and there were a number of
casualties on the scene. we have heard from eyewitnesses who said that they saw a number of people on the ground, anywhere from two or three people who appeared to have some serious, serious injuries, and one person who at least appeared to have serious enough injury where they were doing some kind of cardiac treatment for that person, cardiac massage is how that was described. juliet, it's been almost three hours since this took place. we know it was a little after midnight according to police when they received the reports of the vehicle plowing into pedestrians. what were police and law enforcement, investigators be doing right now? >> number one priority is protecting the population in london, in particular, the muslim community in london. so, number one is are there others who may be affiliated with the vinl who we understand is not only 0 in custody, but is not injured, that he is actually able to speak or at least provide some evidence. they know who he is by now.
they are searching his home. they are searching his social media feed. so, that's the first primary issue. the second, of course is ensuring that there's no more damage or harm done this night so you'll see some hardening presumably of softer targets in the muslim community and at mosques that ought to be done given that ramadan is still ongoing. and then the third and sort of longer term piece is an investigation, is this someone who has shown hatred towards the community and how did he do so? was he known to police officers? was he known to the mosque? that's always a curiosity, is it someone who has shown up there protesting just to figure out how big this network is. but if this was a targeted attack, as we will figure out relatively soon, again, it's a civilian population for religious purposes. we should not shy away from the term terrorism. it would apply in this instance
if the motivations were as being described at least by the muslim community there and some of your eyewitnesses. but we will wait for the metropolitan police to say what they know at this stage about the motivation. >> again, the statement we got from the muslim council of britain was, we have been informed that a van has run over worshippers as they left simsbury park mosque. our prayers are with the victims. is that enough to indeed say they were a target, juliet, to call this terror? >> i think the metropolitan police were probably very careful about what they wanted to say publicly to the muslim community at this stage. but i interpreted that as we are nervous, you know, you may be under some heightened threat at this stage, and that probabl has been followed up with greater police presence at mosques during this time. so, the very fact that the metropolitan police would have reached out to the community i think is a way of -- is a kind
of community engagement we've seen in britain. we see it here in the united states between law enforcement and the muslim community in terms of sharing information, but also being ready if something like this were to happen. look, you know, coincidences happen. i'm willing to admit that, but we've had too much reporting over the last two hours and too much silence by the metropolitan police to make me think that a car just happened upon a busy mosque on ramadan at this stage. so, that's what i'm looking at right now and anxious as everyone else is to hear from the metropolitan police in terms of what their findings are. >> peter burg en, we talked a lot about the muslim population in london that they have, a large muslim population. based on just the dynamics on the ground there, is this -- are
these different cultures and religions well integrated? >> i would say, ana, they're much more integrated in the united kingdom than other countries. let's take france, about 8% of the population is muslim, but up to 60% of the french prison population is muslim. that gives you a sense of how discriminated against the french muslim population is in france. and we've seen obviously a lot of terrorist attacks in france, similarly in belgium. many carried out about people who have gone through the french or belgium prison systems. i think the united kingdom has done a much better job overall of integrated tir musm populations than certainly many countries in europe, which is not to say that it's perfect. i think united states does an even better job because we have the american dream which is operated, all sorts of
immigrants, including muslim immigrants. they are about as educated as the americans and have similar income. that is not something you can say about unite the kingdom muslims. european countries have been integrating muslims. it's not perfect. bear in mind, of course, the mayor of london is muslim so that speaks for itself. there aren't too many american mayors of cities in the united states who are muslim. so, being the mayor of london is one of the most important political jobs in the united kingdom and arguably one of the more important jobs since london is an important financial center. i would say overall that muslims in the united kingdom are better integrated than their european counterparts, but there are problems. we've seen growth of anti-immigrant sentiment in britain which was sadly
underlined by the brexit vote. and there is certainly an anti-immigrant party like the national party which is a fascist party as it exists in the united kingdom. and much of it is directed against immigrants. but frankly this is -- i think it is a terrorist attack against muslims coming out of a ramadan service. that's unusual. as we wake up tomorrow morning in the united kingdom, i think people will find this to be, you know, something that is not at all common. >> peter bergen, juliet, thank you. please stand by. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> we are following breaking news out of london right now