degrees, lying about how many of their graduates get jobs after degrees. devos says she's delaying the rerule to review it. -- delaying the rule to review it. americans hold millions in student loan debt. it's a lot and growing. students who graduated with debt in 2016 had an average $37,000 in debt. ten years ago, the average was about $20,000. gosh, a big burden still. >> not fun to get out of school with all that money. >> no. thanks for joining us. i'm christine romans. >> i'm miguel marquez. "new day" starts now. >> reporter: president trump gearing up for his first high-stakes meeting with russian president vladimir putin. >> need to go in with a list of demands. russia should be making concessions to the u.s. not the other way around. >> anything that makes trump look a little weak makes putin look stronger.
>> i think it could well have been russia, but i think it could well have been other countries. >> that definitely did try to influence the campaign. >> absolutely no doubt about it. >> russian spies are ramping up their intelligence-gathering efforts in the united states. >> i'm not surprised the russians feel as if the cold war is back on. >> safe to say now that president trump is an enabler of russia's interference. this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. this is "new day." it's friday, july 7th, 6:00 here in new york. alisyn is off. poppy harlow joining me. thank you, good friend. i will try ton sneeze on you. -- try not to sneeze on you. on the starting line, the high-stakes meeting between president trump and vladimir putin at the g20 summit. the face to face hours away. will president trump address russia's election meddling with putin? big question. ahead of the meet, cnn has
learned that since the election russian spies are stepping up intelligence gathering efforts in the u.s. officials say russia has been emboldened by the lack of a strong response from the current and previous administrations. >> and there's backlash over president trump's comments slamming the u.s. intelligence community while he was on foreign soil. sean suggesting he doesn't -- again suggesting he doesn't fully believe his own intelligence on russia's meddling in the 2016 election. former director of national intelligence, james clapper, among those pushing back hard on the president's assertions. defense secretary james mattis says north korea's launch of the icbm capable of striking parts of the u.s. does not bring the united states closer to war. the white house insisting diplomacy is the still the first response. let's begin with our sara murray who is live at the g-20 in hamburg. what are you hearing as a key, key meeting is about to take
place? >> well, good morning, poppy. presidents trump and putin have actually already met this morning. they shook hands, but the substantiative meeting comes later, and you can bet that everything from their body language to their public comments, if they make any, will be scrutinized was a the world awaits this highly anticipated meeting. >> if putin likes donald trump, guess what, folks, that's called an asset. >> i hope we have a fantastic relationship. >> i don't love, i don't hate. we'll see how it works. >> reporter: after months of anticipation, president donald trump set to come face to face with russian president, vladimir putin. the controversial head of state behind the 2016 election interference that has haunted the trump presidency. the pair will meet today for 30 minutes, accompanied only by their translators and top diplomats. russian foreign minister, sergey lavrov, and secretary of state, rex tillerson, who has a
long-standing relationship with president putin. >> we've begun an effort to begin to rebuild confidence between ourselves and russia. >> reporter: tillerson is one of the top officials who has been hurriedly preparing the president for the high-stakes face-off. white house advisers say the agenda is not set, but key issues could include the conflict in syria, north korea, and russian aggression in ukraine, which led to sanctions. sources say president trump has been presented with a large binder of reading materials for the g-20 summit, but only a few pages of notes and bullet points on his putin meeting. >> we urge russia to cease its destabilizing activities in ukraine and elsewhere. >> reporter: trump delivered a tough message to the kremlin ahead of today's sit-down. pledging support to the nato alliance in the face of russian aggression. >> we stand firmly behind article 5, the mutual defense commitment. >> reporter: but just hours earlier, the president stopped short of condemning moscow for
meddling in the 2016 election. >> i think it was russia, but i think it was probably other people and/or countries. and i see nothing wrong with that statement. nobody really knows. >> reporter: this statement undercutting the conclusions of his own intelligence community. >> there's absolutely no doubt about it and the high confidence levels, the multiple sources of information we had and its high fidelity, still leave me very convinced of the voracity of that report. >> it remains unclear if president trump will bring up the election hacking today, but a growing number of lawmakers are urging the president to raise the issue. i don't understand how the united states president can protect the country if he's not willing to sit down with vladimir putin and look him in the eye and say, i know you did this. it will stop. >> reporter: now, this morning, it's clear president trump's mind is on the 2016 election, but not on russia's role. he tweeted this about a former
clinton campaign staffer. everyone here is talking about why john podesta refused to give the dnc server to the fbi and the cia. disgraceful. back to you, poppy. >> a surprising message for the president in the middle of this g-20 summit, indeed. sara murray, thank you. president trump is ready to meet with president putin in just a few hours, but we have new reporting on new concerns in the u.s. intelligence agency here about stepped up russian spying efforts across america. shimon prokupecz broke the story. >> russian spies are ramping up their intelligence gathering efforts here in the u.s., according to current and former u.s. intelligence officials who say they have noticed an increase since the election. the russians have not been slowed by retaal their efforts after they meddled in the election. officials say they've been replenishing their ranks since the u.s. expelled 35 russian
diplomats suspected of spying last december. in some cases, the russian spies have tried to gain employment at places with sensitive information. the fbi would not comment for the story and the russian embassy didn't respond to a request for comment, poppy. >> so clearly, multiple current and former u.s. intelligence sources know this. and this is how you guys got the reporting. what are they doing about it? >> well, that's right, poppy. even after the meddling in the 2016 u.s. elections, both the obama and trump administrations have been slow to take measures to respond to the intelligence threat. according to these former and current officials. now, partisan political disagreements over the russian ki activity and president donald trump's reluctance to accept intelligence conclusions about meddling in the election has slowed efforts to counter the threat. also another issue is that there is ongoing frustration with the state department over granting visas to people the u.s. intelligence suspect are
intelligence officers. a state department official not commenting spes ining specifica visas and the fbi's counterintelligence squad is trying to keep an eye on some of this information, poppy and chris. >> let's bring in our panel. we have cnn senior political analyst, ron brownstein, and congressional reporter for "the washington post," karoon dehersha, also, david sanger. thank you for rushing to the camera. i'll start with you as a reward for your solarty of dispatch. we know that the president won't be alone, he'll be with the secretary of state, we know putin will be with lavrov. we have a graphic we've prepared for you. what we know about the preparation of the meeting. what went into this meeting. people can see this at home. how about the preparation? do we have that? preparing trump for the meeting with putin? you have his big weights there
fae owena hill, rex tillerson, james mattis giving him different perspectives. so the stakes, brother sanger, what do you see? >> the first thing to know about this, cruhris, is there probabl has not been a more important bilateral meeting with a foreign leader than you've seen president trump have in his presidency. one with more at stake. vladimir putin's doing this now for 16, 17 years. president trump has been doing this for six months. and it's going to be really interesting to see how the two of these interact. we may not know a whole lot about how they interact because there aren't going to be very many people in the room, as your graphic indicates. secretary of state tillerson will be there. he knows putin from his days at exxon, but he hasn't dealt with him directly on this kind of issue, except for one meeting in moscow, a few months ago, that he held during a brief trip
there. so, what do they have to get done? they have to figure out how they're going to go deal with the question of russian hacking. it strikes me, it's not that difficult, and you make a brief reference to what they did in the past and you talk to them about what it is that the russians are doing now. in germany, if you believe that the russians were behind some of these hacks into the e-mails of employees of nuclear power plants. you can talk about that, so forth and so on. they've got to deal with nuclear issues. the russians from violation of the intermediate nuclear forces accord. they have to find a way around that. they have to deal with syria, and they have to deal with russian aggression around -- and i think one of the big questions is, how do you do all of that in a meeting that's supposed to be only about 40 minutes long with translation underway? >> so, ron brownstein, a few things have changed in the last 24 hours. that could change how president trump goes into this meeting. one, he committed, finally, the
united states to article 5 of nato, which russia not happy with. you've also got his condemnation of russia's meddling in eastern ukraine, both yesterday in the speech in warsaw. and on top of that, one of the people, as chris put them on the screen, who's preparing them for this meeting is fiona hill, a fierce putin critic and she just joined the administration last month. does that change things, as he goes in? >> it just shows you, kind of, the balance of forces, in not only broadly the american foreign policy establishment, but even within the republican kind of foreign policy establishment. and you -- you know, it includes most voices in that chorus have been skeptical from the outset that there is a different relationship that is possible, a significantly different relationship that is possible. there are a lot of things that are unique about president trump. you know, we saw him yesterday criticize his own intelligence service and the free press on foreign soil. that's pretty unique. but one thing that's pretty
typical is that it is not unusual for presidents to believe they can forge a better personal relationship with a leader from another nation, with whom we have long had difficulties. and through the force of that relationship, cut all the gordian knots of the underlying interests and conflicts of interest with the nation. president trump is not unique in that. when you showed the clips before, what he said during the campaign, about what he expected from his relationship with vladimir putin, i think what they're going to find is that those ie iying conflicts of interest, just as he had with xi jinping, it's very hard to do that on the basis of a handshake or a good chocolate cake or even a good meeting. >> judging by the president's tweets this morning, he's not overly concerned about this meeting. do you think that's a tactic in terms of him trying to lessen the expectations? >> or just in terms of him trying to spin the narrative again by bringing up podesta, which i would be surprised if all the nations of the g-20 are actually discussing that more than discussing north korea or other various things on the
agenda. we're heading into this meeting where the request is, will trump actually control the narrative the way he has been doing with his twitter account in the public. we know the issues that are going to come up, syria, ukraine, north korea. the russians want the compounds that we took away from them or we seized in late december back, and that move was taken because of the alleged election meddling and hacking. so it may come up in that connectio context, but the question is, who is going to be spinning and driving the way these things come out. if it is putin based on his pre-presidential training and career, trump may end up making concessions. you heard him say have many times, president trump wants putin to like him. he thinks that will be a good thing. if he in the moment thinks that putin will like him more by handing things over, all of this prepwork, all of these outsiders who have been advising him, all of the fiona hills and james
mattis' in the world, thaur not in the room. we don't know what the president will ultimately do when he is face to face with putin and has more experience and may control that conversation on certain points. and that is the concern if he doesn't go in there with a set list of things he wants to accomplish. >> look, president trump now goes into this meeting also armed with the information that cnn has just broken, as shimon just reported, that russian spies are stepping it up here in the united states. why? because they don't feel like there has been any punishment, really, or any backlash from the obama administration or the trump administration. former director of national intelligence, james clapper, warned what that means for future elections in this country. listen. >> their general push, they're going to stretch the envelope as far as they can to collect information. and i think largely, to -- if i could use the military phrase, prep the battlefield for 2018 elections. >> right. so david sanger, does that change the calculus at all for the president? more pressure on him to bring up
meddling? >> you know, he may have to bring up meddling, but as i said before, more interesting is what the russians are doing now, including what you're reporting on the stepping up, but also, the cyber activity now, which is sort of the best way for the russians to run short of war operations against the united states and against its allies. so i think the big question facing president trump here is, does he want to emerge from this announcing he had a great meating, or does he want to come across appearing as if he pushed back, as if he's tough. and that would be an easy answer for most other presidents, but this president more than most wants to put his stamp on the "i can do this because i've got such a great relationship with him." i would hope and think that the specious with xi jinping, where he came out of the mar-a-lago meeting saying, you know, what
great friends they were and how much they've helped and to discover that xi jinping was only going to go so far on north korea and it wasn't very far at all, has made the president recognize that one of the differences between diplomacy and real estate is that in diplomacy, your national interests almost always trumps. >> well, as they say, we will see. a lot of this is going to be about posturing, it will be the spin after the meeting, but, of course, ultimately, as you're alluding to, david, the proof will be in the performance. what actually happens after this meeting. >> but immediately people will talk about the picture, the president's smiling. >> the handshake, the posture, who shook first, all these silly things and yet we pay attention. gentleman, appreciate it. president trump and his defense secretary, james mattis, contradicting each other about the threat from north korea and what it means for this country's response. are they on the same page? we'll take a closer look, next.
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take a listen to what his defense secretary, james mattis, just said about north korea. take a listen. >> i cannot believe this capability in itself brix us closer to war, because the president has been very clear and the secretary of state has been very clear that we are leading with diplomatic and economic efforts. >> so karoon, unless the president means very severe additional sanctions on banks, for example, pretty severe things doesn't seem to jive with what mattis is saying. how do you see it? >> it's a clarification that is important that the secretary of defense made, because you saw these rockets firing in the air, and clearly, that's supposed to send a message to north korea about the force we could exert if we wanted to hold them back in. but would that make north korea
ramp up faster and produce a response that would force us more towards a difficult situation. mattis is trying to be abunda abundantly clear that's not what's happening. it's also notable that there has been a lot of pressure from other countries like russia and china on the trump administration, not to go in that direction. they did not want that sort of a response, that the united states planned with south korea. and have been urging trump to take more of a, let's sit at the table and have talks, let's have concessions on both sides. you won't do military drill ifs they'll pull back their ballistic missile tests. this is just a situation in which no one is exactly sure about what pyongyang's response will be to any sort of military show from the united states and thus, you're having the guy who speaks for the military most, try to tamp that down. that does leave other options at the president's disposal. but like you just said, to take the most severe ones would be to come down really harshly on china and there's potential backlash for that, too. we're more economically tied to
china. that is a large adversary to take on. yet, they are the central piece of this in many ways, because they are the ones who have the most sway and the most fluinflue and the most economic relationship with north korea. >> look david sanger, people keep saying, whether it was obama, whether it was bush before him or president trump now, there are no good options in north korea. you can only sanction them so much. it's a very repressive society. they've been under intense sanctions pretty much since the 50s with the armistice, but this possibility of them having a seat at table, that starts to be bubbling up a little bit more. we have senator ed markey on, democrat out of massachusetts on the show today. he believes that that's the only way forward, that north korea has to have an actual seat at a negotiating table. there's been reluctance to do that. why? and what do you make of that proposition? >> well, first of all, if it
happened, chris, it would hardly be the first time. in 1994, president carter went on his own authority, somewhat angering the clinton administration, to pyongyang and negotiated directly with kim el song, the country's founder and grandfather of the current president. that resulted in a fact that did slow north korea's development for about six years. the bush administration conducted direct talks with north korea through chris hill, negotiator, that ended up with them dismantling part of one of their nuclear reactors or at least a cooling tower. they later broke out of that agreement shortly after president obama took office. it would hardly be the first time the united states has sat down with the north koreans, usually in conjunction with other allies and the chinese. but i think there is a big question here. if you listen to what the president said about severe actions he could take, is he thinking military or economic? my guess is, he's thinking largely economic sanctions. there are some very severe ones
they could do, including intercepting north korean ships at sea or at ports. something that the obama administration got going with something called the proliferation security initiative, to inspect these things. but there is, in fact, a risk to that, as well, that you can get into a firefight with the north koreans that escalates fairly quickly. there aren't many good military options unless they see another missile that is being prepared and they decide to try to shoot it down with an anti-ballistic missile or do a preemptive strike, and that's pretty risky. >> so ron brownstein, stepping away from north korea for a moment fto a major trade deal, the parameters of which have been agreed to between japan and the eu, this is on par with nafta. this is huge and it completely cuts out the united states from having a seat in the middle of this. and it will, if it is inked, it will hurt economically, somewhat, the united states. so, what's the signal to the trump administration? and how significant do you think
it is? >> look, it's very striking that the eu and japan are -- have completed this enormous trade deal. at the same time that we see in asia, you know, china trying to move in to fill the gap that we created by walking away from the transpacific partnership, when president trump took office. i mean, you do see nations of the world continuing to try to build these bonds. and the same story on the climate -- the paris climate agreement, where, you know, all of the other major signatories, china and germany, are talking about renewing their commitment to pursuing this work. the question will be whether america first, as the president describes it, translates into america alone, as these other nations kind of move in to fill the gap, created by his vision of -- the vision by the administration that we have been taken advantage of, in all of these international agreements. when, in fact, you know, the history of the last 70 years is that the u.s. has fundamentally
built the international rules-based system, not as an act of charity, but because we believe it is in our interests to have the nations of the world interact alone a pattern of laws, rather than just kind of naked aggression. so, yes, this is a big moment, and it is a sign, i think, very similar to what we're seeing with paris, which is that the administration has chose within a path that puts them fundamentally out of step with many other nations. and people here who cheer that, but others who worry, in fact, it is isolating us in the world, and thus diminishing rather than increasing our leverage. >> also important to note, if hillary clinton had been president, the u.s. would have walked away from tpp as well, given her stance on that at the end of the campaign. thank you all very much. ron, you have been working overtime. you have a new column we want to tell people about. you can go to cnn.com/faultline to read his weekly column. >> a good look at the deepening political divisions in our country. so this delta flight from seattle to beijing was forced to turn around because of an aggressive passenger. we'll tell you why other passengers wound up taking
so, this delta flight from seattle to beijing was forced to turn back because a crew member was assaulted by a passenger. and really, the passenger was trying to exit the plane, was making all kinds of erratic moves. three people were injured, overall. according to a witness, the passenger, 23-year-old florida man, kept going to the bathroom before making making a move for the exit door. passengers tried to stop him by breaking boo ing bottles of win his head. it took a while, but he was subdued and faces a court appearance in seattle today. the white house is searching for a new white house today after one of their chief critics announced he was stepping down. that's walter schaub. he repeatedly raised questions over president trump's decisions not to sell his business
interests. schaub says he was not forced out, but reached the limits of what he can achieve. he's heading to a nonprofit. wounded congressman steve scalise is undergoing another surgery. it will be thursday, they did it, no control an infection. scalise was shot last month at a republican congressional baseball practice. we all remember that. the hospital says scalise tolerated this procedure well, but he's still in serious condition and he's endured multisurgeries and he's going to face a lot more, because he's g got fractured bones and internal organ issues. this is a complicated recovery. we will stay on it and we send the best to the whip and his family. >> we certainly do. residents in the northeast today face drenching rains, severe, gusty thunderstorms, and let's get to our meteorologist jennifer gray for a look at the forecast. what have you got? >> poppy, that's exactly right. by the way, this is brought to you by temper pedic.
can't rule out the possibility of an isolated tornado, but thunderstorms are going to extend all the way back in the plains, from the northeast. we actually have a couple of rounds of rain. we have one round coming through right now, but you look back towards detroit, you see that second round of rain. that's going to be what's going to move through a little bit later this evening into tonight. so if we time it out, a bit wet this morning, early, and then another round late tonight or around the 10:00 or 11:00 hour, pushing through the northeast. chris? >> all right. appreciate it, jennifer. we'll keep an eye on it through you. president trump, has he painted himself into a corner on the russian election hacking ahead of the big meeting with the russian president? how, why? we'll discuss, when "new day" continues. for 10 years, my tempur-pedic has adapted to my weight and shape, so i sleep deeply
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could very well have been russia or it could well have been other countries. i think a lot of people interfere. i think it's been happening for a long time. it's been happening for many, many years. >> president trump directly contradicting his own intelligence agencies, while, i should note, he's on foreign soil. what impact is that going to have on the intel community overall? let's discuss with our cnn counterterrorism analyst, phillip mudd, and former state department official, shamiela shoutedry. nice to have you here. sto phillip, he embraces some intelligence, but anything that could reflect negatively on him or his campaign or his presidency, he writes off the agencies, completely. does that hurt the united states, big picture, in the yeys of the world? >> i think it hurts the united states in terms of the relationship with russia. when he walks in the room, and i'm thinking not about what happened last year during the election, poppy, but how we think about 2018 and more importantly, the presidential election in 2020. the message to vladimir putin,
unless the president gets more aggressive is, do the same thing you did with the americans last year and in the french election this year. i think what's happened last year is over. the congress is looking at it. we may have indictments if american citizens were involved in working with the russians. but the real question is whether the president sends a question that says you can't do this in 2020. the intelligence community will keep talking to him about what the russians are doing. the intelligence on this that i've seen, it's been in the public forum because of leaks has been excellent, but the real story is whether the russians get the message that says, don't do it again. right now, that message clearly isn't out there. >> well, it's all about deterrent effect, right? whether or not the president believes the proof 100%, of course that's going to weaken your posture, if you're trying to sell somebody they did something wrong and that person knows that you don't really believe that something wrong happened, there's going to be a natural backlash? you don't need to be a world leader to understand that dynamic. but once you get passed that, you know, either russia is going to get something in return to stop this behavior or the united
states will find a way to frustrate their efforts, or the game will continue as it has for many years. aren't those the realities? >> those are definitely the realities? and we have to take a step back and ask the question, why is russia increasing its intelligence question on the united states? and i think there's two reasons. one, they definitely see a lot of vulnerabilities coming out of the trump administration. after the election, they have a lot more data to work with. they know through our own russia investigations that trump advisers are extremely vulnerable. they're loose with information, there have been incessant leaks of classified information. and i were the russians, i would be looking at all of that as a huge opportunity to expand operations in the united states and trump himself has publicly lashed out at his own intelligence community, and that presents another opportunity for the russians to enhance their activities and surveillance on the americans with full
knowledge that there will be this imbalance in the bureaucratic infrastructure. trump doesn't seem to want to invest more in intelligence. he's not reading his report. so all of this means the russians have hit the jackpot. >> because you worked at the state department, let me get your take on this. part of cnn's report iing on th stepped up efforts by russian spies in the u.s. is that the state department is still willing to give out a lot of these temporary visas, even to these suspected russian intelligence officers. it's complicated, right, because you need a reason behind not granting a visa. what's your experience in the state department say to that part of this? >> actually, this reminds me a lot of my time of working on the u.s./pakistan relationship and we face similar challenges and we basically had a spy war between pakistani intelligence and the krcia. and we had very much the same issues where there were pakistanis officials coming to the united states and american officials were going to pakistan
and both sides were suspicious that we were sending too many folks, unregulated. and it wasn't just a diplomatic issue. there are serious sort of security issues. a lot of this has to do with the behind the scenes relationships between intelligence communities and when they go wrong, the diplomatic community is often the one that has to bear the burden of, you know, showing face, a strong face in front of the world. and i think that's what has happened here. and that reflects the obama administration's struggles with how to take strong action against the russians. they wanted to -- they wanted to show that they would punish russia for meddling in our elections, but there are just a lot of trade-offs. and pushing hard against russian intelligence could have had serious effects on other policies, where the united states did need to negotiate with russia, say, in syria, and would have to use diplomatic force. >> what's the bottom line on this review, jill mudd? how much of an impact does questioning the intelligence
service actually have? you've said that those men and women are going to do their job, regardless. >> we used to refer to the president as the first customer in the cia. when you're in the intelligence business, you think you're serving a customer that has to make decisions for america. but if you take a step below in washington, the people in my world regard the other customer, secretary of state rex tillerson, secretary of state mattis, cia director, these people in the six months that the president have been in have gotten pretty good reputations. in my small world -- >> oh -- >> uh-oh. >> phil mudd said too much. they cut him off. >> what happened? >> he was revealing state secrets and there he went. no. >> he's back, like that. >> phil, what'd i tell you about playing with that button? you're mysterious enough. finish your point. >> i was saying, there's a variety of senior customers, and when the first customer cuts you off, people below him are viewing the cia director quite positively. mike pompeo, the new cia director, has made a great
impression on the agency. a lot of people like me saying those doing the work behind the president are doing good work, we'll serve them even if the president blows us off. i think that's what's going on. >> in a way, that's heartening. you like the tone set from the top. and hopefully they understand the obviously political motivations behind the president's resistance here. it is, as you laid out. it is, you know, it's not a coins decidence if the informat is good for him, he believes a source more than when it's bad for him. but if the men and women, as you're suggesting, phil, believe in pompeo and tillerson and those who are doing the work of diplomacy, they're still getting the information they need. america is still going to be strong. thank you very much for your perspective. one of the most popular players on the tennis court went down with an injury at wimbledon. but this was not pretty and not just because of the injury, but because of how it was handled, okay? you're going to see something that i've never seen happen before at a major tournament.
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down with a really ugly injury at wimbledon, but it was what happened next that's really driving the interest. coy wire has more on the outpouring of support and the delay, the delay that we saw take place, coy wire. never seen anything like that in a major tournament. >> yeah, it was odd, indeed, chris. good morning to you. known for her bright personality, dyeing her hair bright colors, bethany maddox sands a beloved player in the tennis world. it was in the singles competition that maddox sands was running towards the net, her knee buckled, she collapsed to the court, she would be writhing in pain and chris touched on it, some criticizing officials at wimbledon that it took entirely too long for anyone to go to her help. >> help me! help me! help me! help me! >> you could feel the tension. her doubles partner, lucy saf
safarova appearing on the court in tears. an outpouring of the support from her fans on social media. a terrifying scene there for any athlete, when you're playing at that level. and this is the super bowl of your support, if you will, your career flashes before your eyes. all right, we'll move on to the next story here. the first time folks are going to see floyd mayweather and connor mcgregor going face to face in a press conference. it's coming up. it's about to be here. ufc, the champion is looking to do something no one's ever really done before. take on a boxer on a huge stage in vegas later in august. and the press conferences, the tickets go on sale later at 3:00 today. the people are saying the fight is going to be boring, but one thing these athletes, before their actual fighters, they are entertainers. they're going to be like peacocks spreading their feathers out there. everyone's wondering when these two finally go toe to toe and face to face for the first time.
>> i'm wondering, it was the first thing i thought of this morning when i woke up. it was top of mind for me. thank you, appreciate it, and we wish her all the best in terms of a recovery. a growing number of states refusing to give some information to the president's voter fraud commission. that includes maine. maine's secretary of state, though, is a member of this commission, still, though, said, no. the request for all of that information, he joins us next. ♪ when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites. the lincoln summer invitation is on. it's time for a getaway. now get our best offers of the season. on the agile mkc. on the versatile midsize lincoln mkx. or go where summer takes you in the exhilarating mkz.
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all right. so a u.s. federal district court is going to hear arguments today from a privacy rights group and they're fighting that the president's commission on election integrity, that their request to collect certain voter information violates the law. you've had a lot of states refuse to supply some or all of the information. and that has put it somewhat at a standstill. but there are big questions about the need for this commission. joining us is someone in a very unique position. we have maine's democratic secretary of state, matthew dunlap. he is a member of the commission but also one of the secretary of states that doesn't want to turn over all the information that's been requested. it is good to have you with us this morning, sir. >> thank you for having me. >> so this is somewhat of a fix. you find yourself in. why would you be the member of a commission that you don't want to fully support?
>> well, first of all, let me just say that we have an awful lot to be proud of in the conduct of our elections in our country. it's not because of the work i do, but the work our neighbors do, our local election clerks, city clerks, ballot clerks. the work that they do is extraordinary, which kind of takes us to where we are right now. the questions that came from the president that led to the formation of this commission and they asked me to be a part of it. one of the things that's been discussed is the accusation that millions of votes were cast illegally. now, i've said right along that we probably wouldn't find an awful lot to back that claim up, but nonetheless, i believe that sunshine is the greatest disinfectant and i thought participation in this commission would help further that cause, that we should be talking about what makes elections work well, as well as some of the barriers that could be put before voters. that would discourage them for participating in the election process. the request that came from the commission, for comprehensive voter informs, the central voter
registration systems that are built under the help america vote act of 2002, we had 503 different voter lists in maine just ten years ago and now we have one electronic list. the commission requested that information, so that they could do cross-state registration checks, to see if people were registered in multiple jurisdictions. which, by the way, is not against the law, it's just against the law to vote in one jurisdiction. >> we had members of the staff of the trump administration being caught up that, being registered in two places, because they moved. >> that's right. >> the question i have goes to this specific thing. this is the problem i think people need to understand. even if they got the information they're asking for in their commission, and by they, you wouldn't be able to find out there were millions of illegal votes with that information. i rode all of this analysis from some of the people who look at this kind of data for a living, and they say that you actually need a lot more information than you just have on the voter rolls, this whole eric database and all of these different statistical problems that come up when you start analyzing the
data. is that true? that even if you had all of this information that you guys were asking for, you wouldn't be able to uncover the kinds of problems that are being suggested? >> well, we haven't even started meeting yet. as we meet and have those discussions, i think we should probably refine what it is we're looking for. it's like looking at everyone's driving records to see if there are any drunk drivers o out there. it doesn't necessarily follow. the problem we ran into, the request that came from the commission said all the information being conveyed from the commission was going to be necessarily public information. under maine law, anyone who accesses the voter list, whether it's a candidate, campaign, party, et cetera, or someone doing research, has to keep that information confidential. so we could not comply with the request, as it was stated before. >> there's a big privacy issue, there. you can make people really vulnerable to having their identity stolen, especially if you turned over social security numbers, which was requested in the letter. it did say subject to your own public information laws. but this information would be vulnerable, if it were made public, would it not be?
>> the information in the voter files is actually very high-level. ironically, i'm one of three secretary of states that also administers motor vehicle law. so when we are administering the real i.d. act and having that debate, the information that the federal government is requiring to be put in the databases was very far more damaging including certified copies of your birth certificate, your passport, but people didn't bat an eye at that. the voter information does have some similar information, but what would be provided under the law would be much higher level, your name, your address, the year of birth, not necessarily the date, no social security number would be provided. >> so the information you would be handing over wouldn't the necessarily be that helpful in terms of achieve the stated goal. and the secondary consideration, what is the goal? we had ken blackwell on yesterday, and he said, you just change one vote in every precinct in ohio and you have a
different turnout in the carter and ford election. whether or not that kind of wild speculation creates a rationale for a commission is a question that needs to be asked. do you believe that this commission is going to unearth large volumes of illegal voting when every study that's been done of a billion votes over more than a decade and all the prosecution research has been done shows we don't have that kind of problem? >> well, we've had millions of votes cast in the time i've been secretary of state, in the state of maine. and we've never prosecuted an allegation of voter fraud. we've investigated some things, like double voting, where it turned out somebody would request an absentee ballot and then forget about it, they get stuck in a pile of seed catalogs and show up in the polls. they're issued two ballots but only cast them. again, it gets to what is the overt act, what is the criminal act. and we don't see that. the thing to remember is that people are incredibly law-abiding. 98% of our laws are written for 2% of the people. so, i think you're going to see a lot of the same thing unfold
as we ask these questions about the conduct of elections -- >> will you also look into russian hacking in this commission? is that part of the purview? >> i think we should. i think anything that damages the integrity of the electoral process -- in maine, everything's paper. we use paper ballots. so russian hacking really can't reach to the level of an ink pen. but i know there are questions about that around the country. and having those discussions, i think, is valuable, especially in terms of how could it infiltrate the voter lists that we've been asked to look at. and a few other things. but i think we also be careful about not inadvertently putting barriers before law-abiding citizens. and keeping them from exercising their constitutional right of democratic self-government. >> that's right. illegal votes aren't the big issue as well as voter suppression is. it will be interesting to see what path this commission takes. secretary of state, thank for being with us. we look forward to having you back. >> thank you. >> all right. and thanks to you, our international viewers, for watching us here on "new day."
for you, "cnn talk" is next. for our u.s. viewers, president trump and president putin are going to go face to face today. what are the stakes? let's get after it. putin is showing he isn't planning to make things easy for trump? >> is he going to be commander in chief of the united states? is he going to stand up to the top spy in russia? >> he has to be strong. we do have to talk about russia's involvement in our democracy. >> nobody really knows. nobody really knows for sure. >> this was an aggressive action taken by the senior leadership inside of russia. >> the russian spies are ramp rg up their intelligence gathering efforts in the united states. >> not at all surprised the election hack caused no response from the united states president. >> as long as we don't push back with russians, they're going to continue. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and allison camarata. >> good morning,