tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN July 9, 2017 10:00am-11:00am PDT
this is "gps," the global public square, welcome to you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria, coming to you live from new york. today on the show, president trump's second overseas trip, the g20 meeting. the face-to-face one-on-ones with vladimir putin and xi jinping. how did the president do? we'll talk about it with a terrific panel. also 50 billion objects will be connected to the internet in the not-too-distant future.
sounds great, right? but that is 50 billion potential entry points for hackers. we'll tell you about it. and america celebrated independence day this week. but are americans forgetting their own history. a fascinating conversation with billionaire philanthropist david rubenstein. but first here's my take, in washington there is a conventional wisdom on north korea that spans both parties and much elite opinion. it goes to like, this north korea is a crack pot dictator with a strange hair cut. he is irrational and cannot be negotiated with. meanwhile the only solution is more and more pressure. but what if the conventional wisdom is wrong? the north korean regime has survived for almost seven decades, preserving not only
it's government, but it's dynasty. it has persisted through the fall of the soviet union, the arab spring and other dictatorships from taiwan to indonesian. the kim dynasty has been able to achieve striking success in it's primary objective, survival. kim jong-un is a young man but has been highly effective at preserving his authority. look at the world from north korea's perspective. the regime saw the collapse of the soviet empire and an even more unsettling transformation in its key ally, china, which went from being a fiery ideological soulmate to a pragmatic trading nation. china often votes for sanctions at the united nations.
donald trump now says he wants china to, quote, end this nonsense once and for all which again can only mean getting rid of the kim dominant in some way. so the north korea regime has tried to buy insurance. and in the realm of international affairs, the best insurance is nuclear weapons. north korea has accurately calculated that china and south korea are more terrified the chaos that would follow a war or its collapse than of north korea's nuclear arsenal. perhaps the right way to look at north korea then is as a smart, rational, calculating government that is functioning shrewdally, given its priority -- regime survival. more pressure only strengthens its resolve to buy even more insurance. how to handle it under these circumstances? the first way to break the log jam in u.s. policy would be to convince china to put real pressure on its ally.
that won't happen by serving president xi chocolate cake at mar-a-lago. under pressure north korea could collapse and the newly unified korea would resemble south korea. with a defense treaty with washington will have to promise beijing now that in the event of unification, it would withdraw its troops, change the nature of its treaty relationship with the new korea and working with china, eliminate korea's nuclear arsenal. but pressure will only work if there's some reason for north korea to make concessions. pyongyang has indicated in the past that it seeks a formal end to the korean war. remember, washington signed only an armistice in 1953. north korea also wants a recognition of the regime and lifting of sanctions. obviously none of this should be offered right now, but there is
no harm in talking to pyongyang and searching for ways to achieve the eradication of the nuclear program. but there is reason to hope that china will -- hope however is not a strategy. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. and let's get started. it is not often on the show that we can break good news about iraq, but today is one of those days. iraq's prime minister abadi arrived in mosul today and declared it liberated. this was avenue three years of
control by isis. it was a bloody fight to recapture iraq's second largest city. but it is apparently over. nic watson walsh is near mosul. nic, that was said to be one of the worst bloody urban battles since world war ii. what did u.s. and iraqi traps learn about isis in the process of almost liberating the city? i know there's some fighting still going on. >> reporter: i think, frankly, it's incredibly hard to fight an enemy that courts and welcomes death. this has been a major challenge, particularly in the old city where we still hear there are slight pockets of fighting despite prime minister's tweets saying they have liberated mosul. it's been an issue of suicide bombers, emerging from the rubble, detonating their own devices, using civilians as human shields.
there are still so many questions that the point about how many civilians have been killed in the final moments of this very bloody battle about how many iraqi security forces have died too. there's a moment of sort of a weight being lifted from the shoulders of iraq here, a nation burdened by 15 years of war here. yes, they appear to have kicked isis out of its largest population center, declaring an end to the caliphate, three years and ten days since al abadi declared. final moments of victory was supposed to happen when the iraqi forces reached the tigris river, running through mosul. it's there's enormous challenges ahead. unnerve the shia, who now run the country after years of being
oppressed under saddam hussein, finding a way of being generous in government and the military to bring this city back into the fold again. to build again. to use their money in the best way. otherwise, many fear in the years ahead we'll see some form of isis come forward. that is what we're dealing with perhaps a momentous moment for iraq and perhaps for the world, too, that's dealt with the offshoot of isis and ideology and terror attacks not just in the uk, london, paris, brussels, nice. i can go on. it's terrifying how the idea has spread. today, the idea faces an enormous symbolic setback of them basically being finished apart from a few small towns where they maintain a presence, finished in iraq. fareed? >> it's unfortunate that the symbolism doesn't include being able to fly iraq's flag because of course isis destroyed that mosque as one of its final acts of barbarism.
nick paton walsh, good to have you on. thank you so much. next on "gps," the g20 meeting and the much-awaited and much-anticipated puttin/trump meeting. of independence. i myself am a nurse, my daughter is going to physician's assistant school. we're passing on family traditions. ♪ do yno, not really. head & shoulders? i knew that not the one you think you know the tri action formula cleans removing up to 100% of flakes protects and even moisturizes for sofia vergara hair a trip back to the dthe doctor's office, mean just for a shot. but why go back there, when you can stay home... ...with neulasta onpro? strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. neulasta helps reduce infection risk by boosting your white blood cell count, which strengthens your immune system. in a key study,
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how did he advance america's interests, how did he hinder them? here to talk about this is our panel. eliot abrams joins us from washington, he was the national security advisor for george w. bush and reportedly a top contender for the deputy secretary of state job in the trump administration. ann applebaum, columnist for "the washington post" and pulitzer prize winning historian. let's do this sequentially. ann, what did you think of donald trump's speech in poland. i was struck by the way in which he spoke of the west really as a kind of civilization more than an idea. >> yes, that was very striking to everybody who heard the speech. it was as if the west was a
civilization or even almost a kind of tribal organization, which is at war with other people. and that was left slightly unclear as to who the other people were. it sounded as if he was talking about islamic radicalism. of course american presidents for years and years have been coming to warsaw, obama did it, george w. bush did it. but they usually use different language, at length about nato, it was about our democracy, it was about poland's journey from dictatorship to democracy, it saw the west as a kind of positive political group community. this was something very different. it sounded a little tribal. no mention of democracy or very little. very glancing reference to nato and russia. it seemed to be offering something quite different. people here were quite confused by it. >> elliott abrams, what did you make of that?
it did sound like trump, and i think steve bannon might have written this speech, this was the west as religion, race, tribe, culture, not the west as democracy, liberty and the rule of law. and as somebody who, in the reagan administration, as i recall, had the portfolio of spreading democracy around the world, what do you make of it? >> i thought it was a very good speech, and i'm afraid i have to disagree with anne. he must have used the word "freedom" about 15 times. he talked a lot about the polish history, a history of resisting russian aggression and russian control. he did talk about culture. we all took courses in western civilization. it shouldn't be a great shock. he talked about culture but so did pope john paul talk about culture and western culture. this was not a u.n. general assembly speech that had universal values. it was a speech in poland which wants to be part of the west. so i think his criticisms are really extreme and wrong.
>> anne marie, let's go to the russia part of this, the putin meeting, how do you think it went? what do you make of trump going to europe and, you know, getting on well with putin? >> and he got on far better with putin than he did with our allies at nato and the g20. but i think the most important thing to me about his meeting with putin, is that the russians are celebrating. it was deemed a triumph for putin in russia. and he gave putin the two things that putin wants most. one, twob treated as an equal on the world stage with syria, with cyber security. you talk about the fox guarding the hen house, i can't imagine better. >> this is trump saying that we might have a joint task force. >> on cyber security. yes. we'll hand over some more of the keys to our cyber kingdom. but the other is that putin wants to be treated as an equal on the world stage and to have
no questioning of what he does at home. and there was nothing, there was nothing about ukraine, there was nothing by human rights violations, there was nothing about the way he has cracked down and his corruption. the kinds of things that george h.w. bush, george w. bush, clinton, obama all pushed russia on the difference between the west universal human rights, right, which apply to everyone, and the way the russian government behaves. and there was none of that. >> he went to saudi arabia before he went to europe on the last trip. the reason for that, they promote him. they controlled. he's transactional, doesn't care about human rights. he went to poland first. they bus in 15,000 people, and say trump, trump, trump. they control dissent, where it's not about democracy.
then he goes to g20 and meets with vladimir putin, to go in and try and delegitimize the russian system is a win for putin. the other thing that's a win for putin is the fact that the united states gets more divided. divided internally. divided from the transatlantic relationship and europe is divided, too. if you're putin, who wants a more multipolar system where everyone has a sphere of influence in their backyard, russian doesn't get bothered by the americans. china is their biggest problem. from that perspective, it's positive. look at trump's tweet this morning, where he says until we syria, i can't move on sanctions. look at what he had to say to the russians, had to at least say, look i actually did push them on the hacks. we know he doesn't care about the hacks. we know there are no consequences. but the reality of these investigations, which are only going to pick up steam, constrains putin to only have a win vis-a-vis the united states. and that means there won't be a
serious reset between these countries. >> and how did trump's meeting with putin go down in poland? he seemed very liked in poland but did they like the embrace of putin? >> well, it's very complicated to say what poland thinks of trump, because poland like the united states is very divided. one of the previous speakers alluded to the current government which is liberal or liberalizing, the best way to put it. and actually brought in people to cheer for trump at the speech, to make sure that there was no disharmony. therefore, people who are pro government are confused by the meeting with putin, people who are anti-government are pointing fingers and saying, look, we told you so, why are you trusting this man? that's actually a common sentiment across europe. people notice the gap donald trump uses in written speeches,
his talk about the west and so on. and the difference between that and the way he tweets and speaks extemporaneously, when he criticizes, he's criticized the media, which has he did here in poland where the media has been under attack. he has criticized the judicial system, he talks about enemies of the state. this is all totalitarian and differences from the facts. people in europe don't trust him, they don't know what he stands for or when he can be relied upon. >> we will keep going. when we come back, next on "gps" as the g20 meeting was ending, france's president emanuel macron said the world has never been so divided. is he right? i will ask the panel when we come back. to my weight and shape, so i sleep deeply and wake up ready to perform. right now, save up to $500 on select tempur-pedic mattress sets
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we are back with our panel. elliott abrams, what did you think of the summit? you've prepared presidents for many different kinds of summits, how do you think this one was? >> the real work is done in the bilateral meetings. there were a lot of good bilaterals. trump obviously trying to work with xi jinping on north korea. it may work, it may not. trying to work with putin on syria. and today we get a sericease fi that maybe will save some lives. on other things where you can't work with other people, what does he do after the summit? he immediately sends tillerson to kiev and sends a known envoy. i think this summit is pretty standard except for one thing.
trump has a separate position on climate change. and that leads president macron to make what frankly is a silly statement, the world has never been so divided. yeah, how about the cold war and world war ii and world war i? let's put things into perspective here, really. >> anne applebalm, what do you think about trump and the europeans? is this much ado about nothing? >> no. i think the difference between this summit and trump's last meeting to europe, i think this time people are a little bit more prepared for trump. last time people didn't know what to expect. everything he did came as a surprise. this time, there was preparation. we knew that -- the europeans knew that trump wasn't going to go along with the climate change agreement. language was written as a g19 declaration was made. i would disagree with elliott on one slight point. it's not just climate change where he's different. it's also trade.
and, again, europe dealt with that by announcing a new trade agreement between the european union and japan. people are determined to go ahead with a trade agenda, a climate agenda, and other issues that the europeans care about. and they're simply going to go around the american president now. so, i agree, it's oversaying it to talk about a divided world. i'm sure there will be ways in which everybody is going to work together on issues of concern to all of us. but it is also true that europe is now recognized that the u.s. is different from what it was in the last two or three or four or five, really, administrations. and they're looking for work arounds. they're looking for ways to do things without them. >> emily, it is striking how the europeans are stepping on to the world stage that the united states seems to be somewhat stepping back from. >> i think the sort of way to
look at this trip is america first means america alone, which means america last, because essentially what he has done is hand the banner of an inner dependent global rule-governed world, tackling global problems to the europeans. to macron and to merkel. and suddenly they are building a global trade area that will extend japan, australia, all the way across russia and china. >> and of course the eu is a larger market than the u.s., so these other countries are interested? >> absolutely. and china is the eu's biggest trading partner. so now you have the eu, and xi jinping and japan and australia, our allies creating trading agreements, they're taking the lead on climate, they're taking the lead on how you shape globalization. that's what this was about, is shaping globalization. we're pulling out. we say we're america first but
basically we're just america isolated. >> you talked about a g0 world. instead of the g20 there's no leader. is that the world you saw? >> certainly these countries around the world are seeing the united states as much less of a leader, and that's where you get macron, it's not on climate and change, it's also on values, the fact that the united states is not seen as a partner in sharing the values of institutions that have actually run the world, which was the g7 plus one and now the g20. merkel -- angela merkel in germany has the biggest problem with that, because she's the one who sees the west in the least transactional ways. that relationship is fundamentally more broken. the other big takeaway from this summit is the meeting with xi jinping. you had the meeting at mar-a-lago, trump and president xi getting along very well.
that relationship is clearly deteriorating, some are going to -- mexico canada, but with the countries that aren't, trump is betting on countries like poland and saudi arabia, he's not betting on countries like germany and china, which long term strike me as better bets. so, i mean, if you think about the united states not being alone but being the superpower that only a few have to be, what the rest aren't, we do see an unwind. >> elliott abrams, 30 seconds. america alone, is that a fair characterization? >> no, i don't think it's a fair characterization. i think one of the things that trump has done is to reaffirm the commitment to nato. he has talked just now about a new trade agreement with the uk. i think we are building under bush, then obama, and we will continue to build now a much closer relationship with india. so i think this is really overstated. i think people are, frankly, looking for ways to pick apart
trump foreign policy. there's plenty to criticize but i actually do think the criticism is quite silly. the g20 doesn't stand for our values, with china and russia in the it, it has nothing to do with our values. it's a method of getting heads of government and state to meet to try to solve problems and that's all it is. >> we will leave it at that. next on "gps," the russian view of the trump/putin meeting. one of russia's foremost policy thinkers, witness a close adviser to the government, will join me in a moment. than tylenol 8 hour. and only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just 1 pill. this is my pain, but i am stronger. aleve. all day strong. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪
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university. he has advised president putin himself. pleasure to have you, sergey. what did you make of the meeting? >> well, it was a long anticipated good news, some saw it has being restored, leaders are starting to talk to each other. it might have cast a good shadow on the overall state of russian/american relations, which are bizarre, toxic on both sides but especially, i'm sorry, on the american side, and are completely counterproductive and even dangerous. >> the way it has been characterized by the russian side, president putin explained to president trump that the russians had not interfered in the u.s. elections and that president trump agreed with that assessment. is that your understanding of what happened?
>> that is my understanding of what happened, but i have not been in that room, as you might expect. so i don't know what was happening there, but i know that russians are saying and believing that they have not interfered, first, and i think mr. putin has a lot of first-class information to support his views. but, anyway, the fact that sides are starting to discuss the cyber warfare things is a healthy development. i think we have to deal with this matter much more seriously than we used to. >> russia and israel were the only two countries where a majority of people preferred donald trump to hillary clinton. do you think that president trump's embrace of putin, the fact that they had a good meeting, has this sort of
vindicated the russian view that they were right to think that trump would be a better president from russia's point of view than the alternative? >> i don't think that there was real support for mr. trump, and i don't think this is a deep support for mr. trump even now because we all know he is handicapped by this kinky inside struggle that you have with your country, which undermines your position in the world and your prestige. so what we were assured of is the accommodation of neocons and liberal internationalists who would have come with mrs. clinton, would have been the worst possible scenario. they would have had to vindicate their defeats they have incurred on their country and the destabilization that has occurred around the world. so mrs. clinton was the worst
possible -- not her, but her administration was the worst possible outcome. we'll see what happens now. >> it seemed to me that vladimir putin must have had a single strategic goal, which is publicly articulated often, which is the end to the sanctions that were put in place by the western countries after the annexation of crimea and the activities in ukraine. do you think that donald trump's tweet this morning in which he said i cannot move on sanctions unless the russians move on ukraine, was that disappointing? did you think there was hope that donald trump would, in some way, relax the american sanctions but, more importantly, allow the europeans to relax
theirs, which is, of course, the crucial issue for russia? >> there are many people in my country who believe the sanctions are useful. and there are others like myself who say that we're entering a different very economically liberal world, unfortunately. and of course, mr. putin or any russian strategic goal is not about sanctions. we want a world to be more secure, want to avoid a war and we have -- we want to restore russia, which we have partially. we have restored our might. and now we'll have to restore our economy to become a full-fledged great power. that is the strategic goal. these sanctions are a hindrance, but not a severe one. and it is not among the items on our agenda. >> briefly, sergey, finally, do you think putin left the summit a happy man?
>> mr. putin is a happy man. he has been winning. and he believes that he is morally and intellectually right. but he is clever enough and good at hiding that. he is very direct and forthcoming. and i think he wishes good relations with the united states. i'm a happy man after this meeting because i believe that our relations were very dangerous. >> putin is winning, pleasure to have you on, sergey karaganov. next on "gps," george santiana said those who do not remember the past are destined to repeat it. how to get people interested in the past? a billionaire has an idea and he's spending tens of millions of dollars to test it out. i noticed it as soon as we moved into the new house.
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desensitizes aggravated nerves with the max strength lidocaine available. new icyhot lidocaine patch. this past tuesday, americans celebrated one of the nation's most treasured annual holidays. for many july 4th means hot dogs, parades and fireworks but should be seen as a celebration of one of america's most important documents, declaration of independence, approved by the continental congress on july 4th, 1776. it is, thus, the date inscribed on that document. the original sits highly protected in the national archives. but 47 years after the declaration was signed, when the original was already said to be fading, an engraving was made off it. my nest next guest owns four of the 50 surviving copies of that so-called stone engraving. he doesn't keep them in his living room. the copies are on display at the
state department, national archives, national constitution center and the new york historical society. he also owns one of only four surviving copies of magna carta. also on display at the archives. the 13th amendment and eman's pags proclamation is amongst his possessions as well. the owner of all these and more, david rubenstein, the billionaire businessman, who made his money as the co-founder and co-ceo of the equity firm the carlyle group. i sat down to ask him why he collects these pieces of paper and why it's so important for people to see them. explain why you do this. it's an unusual kind of charity. most people think the government should be doing this. why are you doing it? >> one, the government doesn't have as much money as people think it has or should have. for example, take the national parks system, which everyone
loves. it has $11 billion in unfunded commitments to make the parks what they should be. the private sector probably won't come up with all of it but will come up with some of it. i'm doing it to draw attention to several things. one, we need to know more about american history. if you go to visit some of these monuments and memorials you learn more about history. you can learn everything you want to learn online but you can look at the washington monument online and learn about the washington monument but there's something about the human brain that says i'm going to go back and learn more about it after i go to the monument. knowledge is so limited in a recent survey less than 50% of americans could name the three branches of government and that judge judy was on the supreme court, which is not the case. yeah. >> sometimes you just buy documents that can be preserved. what are you looking for? what is the criteria? >> i'm looking to buy historic documents like the magna carta,
which freed slaves, emancipation proclamation. put them on display where people will go and see them. if they go and see them, they might be inspired tobuy a docum preserved. >> yes. you see that's the original. let me learn more about it. tame "hamilton." terrific play. more are inspired to learn about hamilton than ever the case before. seeing the play you want to learn more. hopefully seeing original copies of the documents you might be inspired to learn more. theory, people learn more about the history we might have a better country and better democracy. >> what's your favorite of all you've done? >> i like many. take monticello, thomas jefferson's home. when i went to visit the first time it needed repair. i talked to the president of the
thomas jefferson foundation and we agreed how much money was necessary and she helped transform it to a better place than before, i think. take the magna carta. the only copy in private hands? the united states. they lorn moearn more because i important in our own history, not just the british system. you can graduate from almost any american college as a history major and not have to take history. most colleges today you're not required to take any coarseness american history to graduate. no civics courses taught largely in high schools anymore. the truth, people who are naturalized citizens, you are. the test you took to pass and become a citizen, i doubt if most native-born americans could pass that test without an enormous amount of studying.
we don't teach people these things anymore. it's unfortunate. famously it was said, those who don't remember history are condemned to relive it. they don't remember the past, as much, as they should. i'd like to preserve these things and things people should visit about historic homes, and memorials. >> the first to sign the giving pledge, pledging to give away most of your money in your lifetime. why do you think more people don't do that? >> well, if you come from very modest circumstances and many in the forbes 400 do, worked their way up, all of a sudden working very hard to make this money, saying i'm going to give it away, takes a change of thought. in my own case i came from modest circumstances, lucky in my business career and feel i owe a lot to the united states which made it possible for me to do what i was able to do and feel it's my obligation. i hope others feel the same. the united states has
disproportionate amount giving money. americans are more philanthropic by nature than people from around the world. hopefully that will exchange. >> pleasure to have you on. >> my pleasure. next on "gps," you just heard david rubenstein say, he doubts that most native-born americans could pass the citizenship test. could you? whether american born, naturalized or never step foot in america, you'll be able to test your knowledge, when we come back. of technologies to keep you cool while you sleep. ultra-breathable support layers channel heat away from your body. purecool technology delivers cooling comfort you can feel. and the performance cover is cool to the touch. so you sleep cool and wake up feeling powerful. right now, save up to $500 on select tempur-breeze® mattress sets at our july 4th event. find the breeze that's right for you at tempurpedic.com i own my own company. i had some severe fatigue, some funny rashes.
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your voice is awesome. the x1 voice remote. xfinity. the future of awesome. you just heard my guest david rubenstein talk about the citizenship test that immigrants take to become naturalized american citizens. he wondered if most americans could was it. a taste of that test, two questions from the current rotation. how many voting members are there in the house of representatives? 376? 400? 435? or 538? the test asks about american government today and about u.s. history and that brings me to the next question. what territory did the united states buy from france in 1803? florida? louisiana? maine?
or washington? stay tuned. we'll tell you the correct answer. this week the "book of the week" is only 81 pages long but filled with insight and intelligence. if i've ever wanted to understand physics better read car lowe rovelli's wonderful book. one of the world's leading scientists explained quantum mechanics, black holes with an elegance and clarity that reminded me of richard feinman. it's 81 pages but you'll find yourself coming back to it again and again. don't forget to subscribe to our "gps" podcast. go to itunes or wherever you find your favorite podcast and search fareed zakar "fareed zak" hit subscribe and you'll get it every week and never miss a show. the answer to my question was c., 435 voting members in the house of representatives, each
stapt allotment is determined by population, 435 is the maximum as set by law and six non-voting members one from each of the five territories. aamerican is a mow kaw, guam, the u.s. virgin islands and one from the district of columbia. my second question, b. in 1803 president thomas jefferson doubled the sides of the united states by purchasing the 530 million acres known at the louisiana territory. france sold it for a mere $15 million. today roughly $300 million or what some experts say is the worth of mar-a-lago. president trump's florida club. jefferson really understood the art of the deal. if you'd like to see if you can past the test, go to our website for a link. to become an american you must answer six of the questions
listed from 100. according to immigration services there is a 91% pass rate. let me know how you did by tweeting at me @fareedzakaria. thanks for being a part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hello, everyone. thank you for joining me p i'm fredricka whitfield. en the heels of the g-20 summit, americans still don't know who their president trusts. u.s. intel officials saying russia about slusolutousolutely president putin who said russia did not. president trump commented for the first time about his meeting in germany. trump tweeted, "it is time to move forward." some in the republican party are outraged.