tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 11, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
and a new culture built around customer service. it all adds up to our most reliable network ever. one that keeps you connected to what matters most. breaking news, the president's eldest son reveals what he his father and everyone is in the trump orbit revealed. he reveals in e-mails from june of last year he did have contact with the russian in campaign capacity to talk damaging information on hillary clinton that he believed was coming from the kremlin. he even believed this was a russian government attorney. all of the angles right now from jim sciuto, jim acosta, manu raja and ivan watson in moscow. we begin with, jim, we know donald trump jr. received e-mail offering compromising
information about hillary clinton. how did the information come together and how are players connected? >> a complex web. decide to lay it out all names involved in visual form here. we have vladamir putin, president of russia trying the intel community, to determined, to influence the election. on the other side the oldest son of president trump, who at the time was working on behalf of his father's campaign. now t. you have rob goldston, publicist, tabloid reporter the one, donald trump jr. e-mailed on june 3, 2016 with offer of a meeting with a russian lawyer tied to the kremlin. goldstone, he and donald trump jr. go back to, well, the miss universe page enlt ant in russi through the pop star, the son of a real estate tycoon. in russia known of something as
a donald trump of russia. trump partnered with him to bring the 2013 miss universe pageant to moscow. through that miss universe pageant that goldstone met the son, the origin of the relationship between the e-mail. very familiar by the time the june e-mail was sent. the prosecutor general where it gets particularly interesting about the information involved here. a putin appointee. and the lawyer who, met -- with -- with donald trump jr. in trump tower that day as well as with jared kushner and paul manafort. met there. look at all the faces on the screen there. you have a connection going back to, that miss universe pageant there. where goldstone was familiar with donald trump jr. goldstone saying he could
introduce donald trump jr. to the lawyer connected to the kremlin. the lawyer of course, offering information provided by, chaika, the prosecutor general in russia. who is, again, close to vladamir putin. offering this important information which he says is damaging to hillary clinton. and, goldstone saying that e-mail part of a larger -- effort by the russian government to influence the campaign to the advantage of donald trump. it is admittedly, a complicated web. putting all the faces on the screen there. but again none of the people involved in the e-mail came out of nowhere. the lawyer connected back to this prosecutor. goldstone, this, little known, publicist. miss universe, providing the connection between donald trump and the russian oligarch back to vladamir putin. a complicated web.
when you get to the e-mail. this is the network. >> should point out. talked to the attorney for the, the russian pop star and his father. and they, they, the attorney denies that they're in any way connected to the kremlin. want to point that out. denies that, that the father, had a meeting, or that either man had a meeting with the russian prosecutor. which is what goldstone in kated on the record. they're publicly denying it. got news on the special counsel. robert mueller's investigation. what can you tell us about that. my justice department colleagues reporting that in light of the e-mail. and previously undisclosed meeting with the russian lawyer, the special counsel, robert mueller will be investigating both that meeting and the e-mails involved. and this interesting note. that the special counsel did not know about this meeting. until very recently. the first time he filed to get
security clearance. he listed no meetings. he looked back at his records and discovered the other meeting. previously unreported with the russian lawyer. resubmitted. the origin of how we now know about this meeting. and, that's how "the new york times" got it. now how the special prosecutor is in charge of all of this. finding out about the refiled clearance form. one other point. andersen. this is one meeting that we know the function of this meeting. there are many other meetings that took place between trump world and russian officials during and preceding and the months preceding the election. all areas of investigation for the hill prosecutors and appreciate the update. >> jim acosta, the response from
the president and staff, pretty restrained. >> it has been. no tossing around, phrases, fake news, enemy of the people. the news is getting pretty real over here tonight. anderson. the president tweeted within the last hour, that he loves his son. and that he is a great person who loves his country. that is -- was essentially a tweet that the president was putting out there to direct people to donald trump's appearance on fox news. later on this evening. but, andersen, if you were in the briefing room earlier today as i was, sarahhuckabee sanders was talking to reporters off camera. a very restrained response. all she did was read the president's statement. the president handled the e-mails in a transparent fashion. despite the fact that he changed the story a number of times on this. when asked whether or not members of the president's team might be brought up on charges of freeson or perjury, she said ridiculous. >> donald trump jr., some of the
comments he makes on fox news have been released. >> that's right. he does say he wished he had done things a little differently. more of what he had to say. >> things are going a million miles an hour again. wait a minute. i heard about all these things. maybe these are something. these were basic information that was going to be possibly there. i didn't know the guys well enough to understand if this talent manager for miss universe had this kind of, thing, so, iowaned to hear him out. >> did you tell your father anything about this? >> no, it was such a nothing. there was nothing to tell. i mean i wouldn't have remembered it until, you start scouring through the stuff. it was literally a wasted 20 minutes which was a shame. >> now, what's interesting, andersen over here at the white house. tomorrow, the president is going to have another one of these schedules where he is going to be behind closed doors. not going to see the president talking in front of the cameras.
only time we will see the president make his way in front of the cameras when he departs the white house for this trip to paris. he is scheduled to meet with the president of france later on this week. andersen, this is the third day in a row, that the president has been behind closed doors with no public event scheduled with him in front of the cameras. i talked to a white house official about this earlier this evening. they said no they're not wagon circumstanceling arou circling. a few days for the president and team to reboot after the foreign trip last year. anderson. make no mistake, covering the white house, for a, number of years now, it is highly unuse yalg. during the week, with, with really no holidays going on to see the president and his team. president of the united states and his team, with no public events on the schedule for three days in a row. it does not get more unusual than that, from a public event standpoint. >> jim acosta. appreciate it. thank you very much. view from capitol hill, six months into the administration. lawmakers would like to be busy with other things are instead busy with this. some are investigating it. others are reacting to it. some doing their best to avoid the subject entirely. any way you look at it.
quite a mix. manu raju late developments including from congressional investigators. you have been on the hill. what its reaction from republican law makers? >> they're all over the place, andersen. some are frustrated this drip, drip, drip of information continues to undercut the, the president's own agenda. said this joifrz whole ming. what the white house is frying to do. mitch mcconnell saying this is something that he, the investigators need to look at. and then there is, others who are saying they need more information. including chuck grassley. whiting a letter to senior trump officials to get more information. then there are others raising serious concerns about this controversy. here is a mix of reactions from the hill today.
any time you are in a campaign. i don't know what mr. trump's, junior's version of the facts are. definitely he has to testify. the e-mail was disturbing. >> other shoes will drop before this thing is over. said that for weeks. >> how damming does this look? >> have to see what it is all about. >> do you personally have any concerns about the fact that the president's son met with the russian lawyer in an effort to get dirt on the clinton campaign after being told that the russian government want feud help his father's campaign? >> well i am sure that, senator burr and senator warner and their committee will take a loot at all aspects of the russian investigation. >> that was a senate majority leader punting on the question. not saying he has any personal concerns. democrats taking a tougher line including the former, runningmate to hillary clinton, tim kaine saying could be
potenti potential treasonous. other democrats not going that far including chuck schumer. also raising significant concerns, calling for donald trump jr. to testify in public session. anderson. >> that's the next question. how does newt information we learned today affect the on going russian investigations. >> well the house and senate intelligence committee, top democrats on those respective panels are calling for don jr. to testify in, before the committee as well as everybody else who is involved in setting up that meeting. they're asking for records. and the like. the two democrat on those panels. the chairmen of the committees have not been as forceful, mike conley leading the house, investigation, on the russia side, has not made any public comments on this declining to comment earlier today. richard burr, republican chairman of the senate intelligence committee. approached him to say. said he did not want to comment. on donald trump jr. could be potential witness. i asked him does this give you any clear indication there could
be collusion here. he said, i am not going to go there. because, we are "very early in this investigation." so a sign, andersen, a lot more, capitol hill wants to dig into in light of the revelations. >> appreciate it. when traditional means of communicating between washington and moscow was red phones and grim faced soviet ambassador. the whole notion of meetings set up with concert promoters, tied to pop stars, beauty pageants and the rest is odd. so is tossing to a reporter in moscow for reaction to it all. ivan watson there for us tonight. so many players in this. many of them russian nationals. what can you tell us about some of the people involved. u.s. an eclectic cast of characters. anderson. you have a pop star, dad, azerbaijan billionaire real else state, the lawyer, was known to
be lobbying against the act which is this u.s. legislation punishes russians in human rights abuses withsanction and was shopping around a documentary, and defended a firm that had assets seized in connection with that. now the british music producer, rod goldstone, says he runs his own pr company. we too entertainment. and he had also been a judge on miss usa, pageants. beauty pageants. he said the client is a pop star, emin agalarov and worked with donald trump toon the miss universe pageant in moscow. boasts he is the only person who has gotten trump to appear in a music video which happened in
2013. a year later, trump appeared in a happy birthday video. on his 35th birthday. now the father, he is the president of this company called, crocus group, they own nobu restaurants here in rush yeah. they own shopping malls. and they're building stadiums for the upcoming fifa world cup. it reveals, real estate. business internationally. and entertainment. and move into politics that has ended in such a dramatic controversy. is this getting a lot of coverage in moscow. is this viewed as a big deal. the kremlin has the not commented on this yet. and it is more kind of receive
action right now that we are seeing. to the summit. meeting that took place last friday. the historic meeting between trump and putin germany. that was last friday. still reaction. one of the three basic agreements that the two presidents reached. setting up the cybersecurity working group has fall any part. you have one newspaper here, saying we can't trust trump's tweets anymore. the kremlin protective of trump. a spokesman saying we believe we can work with him. we are hearing from russian officials. that they're threatening to finally respond to those sanctions that the obama administration put out amid charges of meddling in the u.s. election. when the obama administration seized two russian diplomatic compounds and expelled 35 russian dip low mat diplomats.
starting to hear murrays the russians may run out of patience and respond in kind. andersen. >> ivan watson. thank you. >> perspective from some one who briefed many presidents in both parties and some of the deepest secrets the country has. former cia, and michael hayden knows a thing or two about russian spying. speaks out when we continue. you don't let anything lkeep you sidelined. come on! that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein, and 26 vitamins and minerals... best one ever! for the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. ensure, always be you.
when donald trump jr. released e-mails he gave a window into international intrigue. how much showed up on the radar of various u.s. intelligence agencies if any at all. we don't know. good to get perspective from some one with deep knowledge of how it works in this country and russia, michael hayden. director of the cia and nsa. >> general, for e-mails released how much do they intensify questions what went on between the trump campaign and russian government? >> well, my lesson learned from the e-mails and put aside what may, may not have happened. whether any information was transmitted or not. there was a clear sign in the e-mail, andersen, that the trump campaign welcomed assistance, cooperation, collusion, however
you want to describe it, welcomed assistance from the russian government. to help them defeat hillary clinton for president. nontrivial. not a lawyer. not going to claim it is illegal. certainly not treasonous. does display something the administration denied throughout its existence. >> it is interesting, a lot of trump surrogates have been making the argument. donald trump jr. made the argument before today's release of the e-mails. just standard operating procedure. this happens in campaigns. people look for opposition research. and meetings with all sorts of people. seems what is different from, from e-mail tuesday, is he, whether or not she actually was from the russian government, this lawyer, donald trump jr. met with her with the assumption she was a russian government attorney and this information came from the russian government. >> right. and that's an important point. i do think there are distinctions between talking to the new zealanders or australians about something.
and doing this kind of activity, with a government that the american intelligence community was, was beginning to evolve the story. of how much sthap wethey were g involved in the election. put that aside. let me admit for purposes of argument. that is innocent. that's there mall. that's just politics. what we have got is the campaign with a categorical denial, the administration, with a categorical denial. any such meetings ever took place. that's concerning to me, not just for the past, but for the present and the future. i mean, the administration makes these, really, absolutist claims. and it doesn't seem as if it has done its home work to make sure they're on solid ground. that's bad poll techitics and p. >> talked to steve hall, earlier today, one of the things he said was that -- russia, it is possible, i mean, that, that
their modus operandi not uncommon to use a third party rather than having a russian diplomat or government official actually meeting in this case with donald trump jr. very possible this was a probe just to see was somebody in the trump orbit willing or, or open to the idea. even if she didn't have any concrete information. >> absolutely plausible scenario. they have far more control over their citizens than we have over ours. that scenario that you have laid out, andersen. one that, somebody of my background would assume the russians were doing. in terms of using, all of the tools they had available. to make this approach. keep in mind, andersen. i mean, the american intelligence community is concluded that this was a massive synchronized long term effort on the part of the russian federation to manipulate the american electoral process. >> you know, back in may when i
speck to you, you told me how concerned you were with this administration underscored the u.s.'s prosperity and success are not guaranteed, saying, a quote which i repeated a million times, i have seen how thin the veneer of civilization really is. are you any loss concerned about that now? >> no, i am not. that actually brings me home to the point, i, that this made on me. in the last 12 hours, andersen. the style of decision making that we saw in the campaign. chaotic. not particularly rules bound. not respective of protocol or accepted practices. not seeking out or accepting, exper tee exexpertise. that that decision making, this incident reveals about the campaign. i fear we are still seeing too much of that within the administration. i have often said, pass/fail effort from my point of view is whether or not the wonderful people that president trump has chosen for those senior positions, and a fairly well, well, functioning american
government, can break through to the circle of family and friends, around president trump, who is accustomed to running a family business, not an extended government. and this incident, reveals the kinds of things i fear were still seeing elements of and how we are being governed to day. >> one of the things the president said today was he praised his sons what he called transparency. lot of people have taken issue with the idea that donald trump is being transparent. you're a student of, of human behavior, sure you have read a lot of interviews with people, over the years. in your work. when you hear somebody giving one explay natination one day. coming out with a statement the next day. which adds to it. then seems to sort of contradict what it was said the day before. and then the next day under pressure, that, that the e-mails are about to be released. releases e-mail. did you find a credible narrative from the person. certain point. the person lose credibility in
your opinion. >> they do. look, andersen. under different circumstances. we have had stories from your network. when i amount director of cia coming out. they're not happy stories. and, frankly, our rule of thumb is, you can't win by hiding the ball. you have got to get well ahead of that wave. otherwise it is going to crash over you. and, and that's no way to handle these kinds of things. and to make sure frankly, that the story ends of in a point where you think, that, that the truth resides. >> general haden. appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. when we come back, a new story from "the new york times." maggie haberman breaking stories over the last few days just out. details from her. tech: when you schedule with safelite autoglass, you get time for more life.
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ferocious families. dangerous dragons. experience game of thrones and all the rest of hbo for free from july 10th through the 16th with xfinity on demand. from action, to comedy, to drama. this summer hbo and xfinity have you covered. and catch the game of thrones season 7 premiere on july 16th. winter is coming to xfinity. little did we know when we said good night to maggie haberman, she would turn around and get a new scoop. on "the new york times" website. with patriot patty baker, maggi us. >> apologize for interrupting your dinner. apologize to your family. >> on the plane ride back, air
force one from having met with vladamir putin. trump aide according to your reporting trying to work out a statement for donald trump jr. to make, correct? >> right. they were involved in drafting it. you had -- you know, don trump jr. who basically, was essentially flying solo. president and aides on air force one on the way back from europe. the president according to one person, familiar, did not craft it, signed off on it. knew what was being said. look, what is also really interesting here and what we have going on right now is you have, you know, something of a circular firing squad of blame developing where you have -- the legal team for the president, getting very frustrated with jared kushner, you have the president getting very frustrated with his legal team including long time lawyer, mark kasowitz. one of the hallmarks of the president is when he feels frustrated or things are not
going well, he, he, focuses his ire on an aide. and this is not a surprise what is happening here. there is also a lot of contradiction as to exactly who authored, who approved what, who wanted to do what, we have three people telling us that don jr., you know, advocated on saturday for pushing back. much more full and being more public with what happened. we have other, other sources insisting that isn't what happened. although it would be in keeping with how, don trump jr. typically handled thing to want to sort of say more and defend himself. but this is becoming, complicated. >> so, just on that question of -- of whether he wanted to give out information or push back. the president signed off on the statement saturday. the statement saying the meeting was abut -- adoption. that statement which was then later on in subsequent days had to be amended. >> yes, it know it clear the
president actually knew that there was more than that there. you know, we have had, don jr. and aide to the president insist the president was not really aware. the nature of of what happened. and the e-mails were known to exist. how much the president was read in. and he was aware. >> briefly, you said the team, of the attorney for donald trump, for president trump, frustrated with jared kushner, do you know why? >> they believe that he is -- a "freelancer" who whispers in the president's ear. and who is trying to help himself. and i think that, that, what has gotten lost in the, largely in the, in the, this issue with this meeting, that don jr. was the key in arranging was that jared kushner is the one who went into government. who had to, amend his, foreign contact form for security clearance.
part of how all this became known. >> thank you, that story is on "the new york times" website now. with us, ryan lizza, paul begala, and asha rengapa. start off with you. legally in terms of legality, is donald trump jr. in trouble? >> he could be. >> in what way? >> what the e-mails basically show is a level of knowledge and level of intent that before now was not so expolice it. -- explicit. that opens up potential liability. not a smoking gun. no prosecutor is going to prosecute donald jr. on this e-mail alone. but it does open up the question of, things like, election fraud, conspiracy to, commit election fraud, getting, soliciting, something of value from a foreign government which is illegal to do. in an election.
in black and white, information he was getting into. >> congresswoman, you heard the reporting, a circular firing squad in the white house, leaks from different things, how concerned are you, that wants the president's agenda to move forward. wants to focus on issues important for the future of the country. what is happening now in this white house. >> it's, what maggie has there is, some sort of high level, you know, intriguing gossip. that's it. all it is. this is all again, this is not the story. it's been exhaustively covered. kudos to you. talking with general hayden and you talked what we need to defend here. absolutely true. essential that we defend of what this country is about and what it represents so we can indeed, counter enemies like russia. russia can be kidd considered a hostile power. no question.
what we do that, through the what the president is doing. putting americans back to work. getting energy going again. making sure the government runs belter. making sure va runs better for veterans. this is a real story. you are on to that. >> the russian hacking, you don't believe is part of a real story or real threat? >> there is no story here that donald trump jr. being involved with russian hacking. donald trump participated in politics as usual. >> russia in general does the hacking concern you? >> yes, in the sense that we should always fighting to make it less vulnerable. the dnc should have been less vulnerable. secretary clinton did not nol low security procedures. >> does sound a little bit like blaming the victim here. >> not blaming the victim. >> because, they, in fact, put us at risk. secretary clinton put us at risk. and she, had the most knowledge of anyone in this electoral
process of what we were dealing with. >> paul, just in terms of where donald trump jr. is now. and maggie haberman's reporting. one thing you talked about in the past, clinton white house, that, bill clinton even in the darkest days, when he was facing stuff with monica lewinsky and the eyes able to compartmentalize things. not sure what that says about him. but he was able to do it. and that is essential in the white house. is this white house able to do that? >> psychologically suited to be president. a lot of things coming at once. some times foreign crisis. domestic. political. personal. some times all at once at the same time. but his mother passed away when he was about to leave for a summit in russia. he had to be able to compartmentalize. essential for a president. this president seems obsessed with the russia story. and for good reason. because he knows there is something there. i'm really struck by maggie's reporting always am of the circular firing squad. i have been through nothing like this. close. you either come together or come apart. people that went through
impeachment with for clinton are like brothers and sisters. looks like already this tight, small family business is turning on itself. according to maggie's reporting. that's a big problem. because you know my, our old colleague, the late bob novak used to say in his column world, that you are either a source or target. well, the people in that inner circle are either a source or target for mr. mueller and his investigation. and, they're going to start turning on each other. they're going to start ratting on each other. i think maggie's reporting is a leading indicator. >> carl, the e-mails, as a smoking gun, it is premature? >> yes, premature. at the same time i also said we are in the midst of a malignant presidency. part of the malignancy is the lying by people named trump. what we are seeing here is, now we see that much of the focus of where investigations are going is into the trump family. it is something that has the president, i'm told. i wanted to ask maggie about this. it has the the president in a rage. that's he knows that mueller is
looking act his family's finances. at his son-in-law's finances. at his finances. at this, all of the trump organizations' finances to look for links. he is in a rage about this. but right now, make no mistake. the trump family is under investigation by the congress of the united states, by mr. mueller, and this is a really provocative situation when you have a president like trump and also, when one of the questions is about incessant lying, obfuscation, undermining investigations. no, is there a smoking gun? no, we have a long way to go. we are early in the process. again one of the reasons the president is furious. >> it's interesting -- when you read the e-mails, and we don't know if this is the complete list of e-mails this is what donald trump jr. put out. when, when said that, the russian government is backing his father, he doesn't seem to react to it in any way. some people have said it sund
like, all most like a second reference, or perhaps, this has been discussed before. but it just steams to eems to be in the e-mail, not remarked on. if i am hearing that for the first time. i would, i would call the fbi. >> i was just be surprised. wait a minute. what? >> yeah, exactly. there did seem to be some sort of common knowledge about this, this effort by the russians. there wasn't much of a surprise or hey i will call you. let's not talk about this over e-mail. tell me more. instead he says maybe this will be good for later in the summer. what this does seem to clarify -- because one has to remember anyone who studies vladamir putin knows that what really irks him even more than sanctions over the ukraine, the sanctions that affect him personally, 44 russian businessmen that we has ties to, charged with corruption, human rights abuses are not allowed to conduct business in the u.s. and abroad. this is something he desperately wants lifted. and you do see a potential
reason as to why this president would want to reach out to the republican nominee, to see what if anything can be done, to get these sanctions lifted. remember how he retaliated. he is the reason why americans, out of most countries in the world, more americans adopted russian children, and he turned around and retaliation and curtailed that from happening. >> got to take a break. talk to ryan and the panel. continuing when we come back. up next, we will dig into the role of the entire trump family playing in this latest iteration of russia white house watch and how trump's other son is reacting tonight. think again. this is the new new york. we are building new airports all across the state. new roads and bridges. new mass transit. new business friendly environment. new lower taxes. and new university partnerships to grow the businesses of tomorrow today. learn more at esd.ny.gov
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has shifted. right. the one thing that all, all -- partisans of the president could say is no evidence of collusion, no evidence of collusion, no evidence of collusion. that is the thing that was exploded to day. because we have clear evidence that at the very least, the senior members of trump's campaign were willing and eager to collude with those in the russian government. >> whether it did representative the development, actual information or not, it almost doesn't matter -- >> it doesn't matter, the whole thing was fake, a sting, a setup. it was basically, "hey, we are the russian government would you look to collude with us." and "love it, let's do it." >> congresswoman, you see that differently? >> to me, donald jr. put his e-mails out there. knowing, listen, i started politics as an absolute
neofighneo fig neophy techlt. i am a doctor. politics is a rough, tough business. i was blessed to have many good friends and great career in it. but, donald trump jr.'s e-mails showed a guilelessness, in a sense, if you really think something is wrong happening, going to be doing something, you are not going to put it in an e-mail. not say, yes, absolutely. >> that's exactly what he did. >> but nothing happened. and nothing illegal was, but nothing illegal was represented even in that communication. >> it is interesting though -- >> look, i think you are right -- >> one of the things we are learning we may not have laws that deal with this sort of thing. i think the idea that this is a campaign finance violation, i mean those are -- >> interesting, you know the idea that donald trump jr. is just gullible and naive, you know, naive. he has talked in the past about the difficulty of doing business in russia figuring out who you are meeting with, if they're legit, if they can back up what
they are saying. the idea that he would go into a meeting with a, with a russian lawyer who has been described to him as a "lawyer for the government" a government which wants to give information, that doesn't sound naive at all. awe thought he would bring in paul manafort and brother-in-law jared kushner to the bring in paul manafort and jared kushner. also what troubles me and what should be troubling everyone is that russia's been sitting on this information for a year now, for a year. they've been watching members of this administration come out repeatedly in interviews saying we have not had any meeting, we have not had associations with russians, and they were just flat out lying. you talk about compromised, there you have it. >> they were willing to let the russian government help them win the election. that's what the e-mails -- >> let the congressman answer the question -- >> at the end of the day, that's what we learned today, they were willing to let the russian government or these representatives help them win the election. and you either have to be comfortable with that and defend
it as okay or not, but that's what we learned today. maybe that's illegal, maybe it's not, but -- >> okay, nobody on this panel is naive as to the fascinating things that go on in politics, the kind of information that comes in under the transum, over, whatever it is. the clintons were talking with them today. >> if you got an e-mail from the campaign, from -- >> i would have been shocked because i was running for congress. but you know, like -- >> can i ask you a question, madam congress -- >> let me ask you again -- >> okay, you ask. >> when you were running for congress, if you got an e-mail saying the russian government itself, for whatever reason, wants to be involved in your campaign, they have information on your opponent and they're sending a russian government attorney to meet with you, would you -- >> it wouldn't have been illegal for me to accept the invitation. >> you won't say yes or no -- >> anderson, that's irrelevant. >> would you have lied about meeting with them? >> they were in the roughest,
toughest campaign for the biggest office in the world. >> why is it irrelevant whether you would meet with them or not? it shows whether you personally think it's appropriate or don't think it's appropriate. >> anderson, nothing illegal occurred. >> how do we know that? >> how do we know? >> madam congressman -- >> with all due respect -- >> how do you know -- >> do you know this from donald trump jr.? >> that's what the investigations are for. >> that's right. >> you're absolutely right. >> what i want to ask you is, why not say, fellow republicans, let us encourage these investigations, let us urge mr. mueller to do his job, let us urge the congressional committees to do their jobs, let us stop making the conduct of the press the issue, making the conduct of others the issue. >> and mr. bernstein -- >> look at what occurred. >> mr. bernstein, that's exactly what's going on. that's exactly what's going on. everybody's saying, donald trump jr.'s saying, i'll be happy to testify. he's volunteered. >> we have to take a break. we have more with the panel coming up. sorry, i have to get this in.
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possible -- i mean, the white house said didn't know anything about this, only recently heard about it. we've also heard in the past how los donald trump jr. and the other kids are, talk several times a day. do you think his son would have kept from him that he learned that the russian government is allegedly backing his campaign? >> i think it seems inconceivable and it doesn't comport with how trump conducted himself on the campaign. almost alone among world leaders he praised vladimir putin. he kept saying, well, putin says nice things about me, i'm going to say nice things about him. it doesn't comport with what we have seen trump do. this notion that was raised earlier, that somehow, donald trump jr. is some knife, that he's like gomer pyle of fifth avenue. >> no, no. >> surprise, surprise, surprise, the russians want to -- just a second, let me finish. >> obviously. >> when the e-mail says the russian government has information damaging to hillary clinton, where's that coming from? espionage. the only place putin and the russian government is going to get information about our
secretary of state is from espionage. >> she put it on her own server! >> so, we know that trump jr. and his campaign were wanting and eager to participate with a hostile foreign power to undermine the united states. >> it's also interesting that jared kushner for a second time had to amend the information he gave in order to get a security clearance, which he's still waiting for the full-time one. i guess he has a temporary one. but initially he had to amend it because it didn't include meeting with russia. >> right. >> now, once paul manafort apparently gave some information about this meeting to congressional investigators, that is when jared kushner, according to maggie hagberman last hour, that's when kushner seemed to remember this meeting again and amended it yet again. >> right. there is a lot of collective amnesia happening among senior people in this administration about their meetings with the russians, and this should give us pause. the security clearance process is really saying, we trust you with the most sensitive
information in our government. and the issue isn't -- is less, you know, what he put down and what he didn't, but what that says about him as a person. so, at worst, it's deceptive and it's not somebody that you want to trust with this information. at best, he simply lacks the judgment to know when something rises to the level of being important enough to report as a potential security concern. >> is it a legal problem? because i signed one of those forms. pain of perjury. it could be an oversight -- >> but donald trump jr. himself has said, had i to do it today knowing what i know now, i would have done it differently -- >> kushner is a government official. he has an obligation better pain of perjury to disclose. it could have been a mistake. >> absolutely. i'm being realistic about this. the most important thing is these are the people running our government, and as bianna said, if you don't know that when you get an e-mail that says, hi, i've got information from the russian government to help your
opponent, you want to meet? that's when you say, um, let me call you back and you hang up and you call the fbi. if you don't know that much, then maybe we shouldn't be letting them run the country. >> i want to thank everybody on the panel. we're out of time. thanks for watching. time to hand things over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. so, everyone, you have to admit the irony of it all. here we are talking about e-mails, not hers, but his, donald trump, not senior, but junior, e-mails showing that people close to this president were ready and willing to work with the russians to hurt hillary clinton and help donald trump. how can i say that? because here are the e-mails. they say as much. it's titled "russia clinton private and confidential." not convinced? well, the e-mail from a man with connections to a powerful russian family close to