tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 12, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
good evening. a lot happening tonight including exclusive new video only on cnn of donald trump long before he decided to run for president with the fa and son music promoter who brokered the infamous meeting with donald trump and the attorney. trump is headed to paris. his mood one of frustration and fury, at time defiance. he spent the last few days hunkered down in the office, watching a lot of television news coverage. that is when he's not on twitter denying that he's doing just that. quote, the white house is functioning perfectly, focused on health care, tax cut reform and many other things. i have very little time for watching tv. he certainly watched donald trump, jr. on fox and was up this morning early tweeting about it. quote, my son donald did a good job last night. he was open, transparent and innocent. this is the greatest witch hunt in political history. sad. as for not watching tv, the very
next tweet he takes aim at the coverage he's not watching. quote, remember when you hear the word sources say from the fake media, oftentimes those sources are made up and do not exist. keep it honest. it would of course be better for reporters if every source to every story agreed to go on the record name and all. the interesting thing is it didn't seem to bother candidate trump who frequently quoted anonymously sourced stories that benefit him. in any case in the donald trump jr. e-mail story, sources have been confirmed by the very e-mails donald trump, jr. finally released under pressure from the "the new york times." now he's talked about that meeting on television. >> in retrospect, i probably would have done things a little differently. again, this is before the russia mania. this is before they were building it up in the press. for me this was opposition research. they had something, maybe a concrete evidence to all the stories i had been hearing about that were probably under reported for years, not just during the campaign. so, i think i wanted to hear it out. but really, it went nowhere and
it was apparent that wasn't what the meeting was actually about. >> so, for all the claims of phony unnamed sources "the new york times" reporting has been spot on. as for that other tweet claiming a witch hunt we take you now to today apartments senate confirmation hearings from the president's own pick to head the fbi. >> in light of the don junior e-mail and other allegations that this whole thing about trump campaign and russia is a witch hunt, is that a fair description of what we're all dealing with in america? >> well, senator, i can't speak to the basis for those comments. i can tell you that my experience with director mueller -- >> i'm asking you as the future fbi director you consider this a witch hunt? >> i do not consider director mueller to be on a witch hunt. >> the thing about witch hunts is nothing ever calls of it. you never see a witch. we've seen new significant developments every week, sometimes several days a week which may explain why the white house is under so much pressure which is where we begin with
cnn's dana bash and the new interview with the president's russian lawyer and whether the russians hacked the election. dana, what are you hearing? >> reporter: what i'm hearing, anderson is best encapsulated by a source who speaks with the president frequently who says that you have to remember that everything should be viewed as the president receiving anything, any bit of news with the word russia in it through one prism, and that is the fact that he considers that an attempt to dee legitimatize his election to the white house. and, so, knowing that that is the context through which he receives information about anything, even and included information that is in black and white showing that his son was eager to take a meeting from somebody who said that they had information from the russian government. so, this is kind of gives you a window into the thinking of the president. and it also explains what he
actually said in public to reuters, giving as you said, a new interview today saying he only learned, first of all, about the meeting a few days ago. but that he didn't fault his son for taking the meeting, saying, quote, many people would have held that meeting. now, you played one sound bite from his own fbi director nominee. at another point, the nominee, christopher ray, said that he explicitly would suggest anyone getting a solicitation for opposition research from a russian national should call the fbi. so, his own nominee to head the fbi disagrees with him. but, look, there's no question just in terms of the atmosphere this has had a very big impact on the sort of vibe inside the white house. one source told our colleagues that it was paralyzed. i spoke to a source tonight who said that that is diminishing a little bit as the time has gone on, particularly since they are
kind of breathing a sigh of relief that they are hoping to change the subject by the president lifting off to go to paris to have a very important bilateral meeting and they hope that that is going to be a way for them to change the subject. but other times they've tried to change the subject, other shoes have dropped. they're hoping that doesn't happen this time. >> sara huckabee sanders was asked about the white house under siege multiple times. i want to play a bit of what she said. >> you know, the president wants to be focused on his gent and he'd much rather be talking about health care, tax reform, infrastructure, national security. i think that that's his focus and when he's talking about those things that's a good day for all americans. >> how does that push back square with the optics coming out of the west wing? >> well, first of all, it's sort of -- tlgs a little bit of irony that not only do we not see sara huckabee sanders orz anybody who does press conferences sort of feeds into the bunker mentality when it actually sounds like they're in a bunker. but i think at the end of the
day, you asked about optics. i talk to people inside the white house, and the reality is that they don't really care about optics. if they did, then they would be approaching this in a very different way and it doesn't really square with the notion of a president who is all about perception. as you said, despite tweeting he doesn't watch tv, he does watch tv. he understands it. but they, a, didn't go very well when they had a series of on-camera briefings from their perspective at the beginning of the administration. b, don't really want to answer the questions right now, don't want to feed the notion that reporters who are in the white house briefing room have, you know, sort of legitimate questions to be answered. also, the other thing i will say is that members of the white house say that they do go on television. they do answer questions in other ways, maybe not for the white house press core. and the last thing to remember is twitter. the fact is that donald trump believes that the best messenger is himself, that's why he refuses to stop tweeting and
that he can get his message out directly to his 30 plus million followers and he doesn't need to do it through the traditional means of a white house briefing. >> yeah, dana, thanks very much. very pleased we have somebody from the white house on the broadcast tonight, deputy assistant to the president sebastian joins us now. thanks very much for being with us. i want to ask you about a number of things. the president's trip to france which is important, the victory in iraq and mosul. i do want to start off with dana and others are reporting. the president has had four days now without an event on his public schedule. you've heard the reporting that there is a bunker mode in parts of the white house since the news of donald trump, jr. broke. i want you to be able to comment on that. >> oh, absolutely. it's laughable. your kie ron talked about a crisis. your reporter talked about a bunker mentality. i actually work in the west wing. i work in the white house. it is absolutely nothing of the kind. we are pushing the "make america great again" agenda. the president is a steam
locomotive that will not be stopped. it's just fake news. i'm sad to see cnn falter this. i know you want to see salacious covering for your ratings and corporate sponsors will have more money. that's not media, that's not reportage, it's fake news. >> i'm going to ignore the insult because i don't think it gets us anywhere. >> it's not about you. it's about actually having journalism back on tv. where are the walter chron kites of yes, sir ter year? this is just about ratings and money. it's actually quite sad. >> the president tweeted today, when you hear the words sources say from the fake media, oftentimes those sources are made up and do not exist. i'm wondering how the president can actually make that claim when all the reporting by "the new york times" and the meeting his son held with the russian attorney have been proven by his son's own e-mails which he only released because the times was going to publish the contents of it. >> is that the same way all the unnamed sources said that director comey including cnn,
was going to completely gain say everything the president said about their meeting 24 hours before his tert testimony? >> we were reporting wrong and we corrected ourselves unlike the white house which has never corrected itself on anything. but i'm giving you an opportunity now to correct what the president said this morning because what he's alleging is that the reporting is fake and, in fact, his son's own e-mail chain shows that it's accurate. do you deny that? >> no, i deny the fact that there is anything here that is untoward. again, this is an obsessive nine-month -- >> you do not deny all the sources in this the times was correct and he says it is fake news? >> i stand by what the president said and i stand by what his son said. we are incredibly impressed by don junior's transparency and the fact that he actually published these e-mails and said he will -- >> all right. let's be honest here, though. he only published these e-mails because "the new york times" got the e-mails and was going to
publish them and then he smartly got got ahead of it. the only reason this story has lasted so long is because he wasn't transparent from the beginning. even trey goudy today said, and i quote, if you were had a contact with russia, tell the special counsel about it. don't wait for the "the new york times" to figure it out. why not be up front and transparent on saturday when he was first approached? >> this story only has legs because the fake news industrial complex is obsessed. nine months of accusations with zero, zero evidence of anything illegal. on the contrary, the dnc sends its operative onto the soil of a foreign nation to the embassy of the ukraine, not to collect dirt, but to actually use it in a coordinated campaign with a foreign government. that's what cnn should be covering. but why aren't you? >> well, two things on that. first of all, you're avoiding answer the question about donald trump's lack of transparency. >> total transparency. >> him saying this meeting was
about adoption issue was his concern for orphans? >> it was absolutely misrepresented. the individual who requested the meeting -- >> no, that's what he said the meeting was about on saturday when he knew all along by saturday that's not what the meeting was about. so, that's not being transparent, right? >> when he gave as much information as was necessary to be put out thereafter -- >> it wasn't correct information. >> it was absolutely. >> this meeting was about adoption of orphans? >> all of it was true. >> this meeting was -- >> somebody wanted to provide negative information that at the end -- >> he didn't say that. >> under false pretenses -- >> he didn't say that. >> about adoption. i thought we were going to talk about real issues. like what we're doing with our allies in france. >> i am going to ask you, but you're not being honest, you're not being up front. >> anderson -- >> are you a tv producer now, are you concerned about how many minutes we're talking? if you have to go, you have to go. >> you're falling into the fake news trap again and it's sad, anderson. >> okay.
you're shaking shiny objects to try to divert people but i don't think viewers are really that easily diverted. >> you know why the president's description of a witch hunt is accurate? because there never were witches and there never was any collusion. it's bogus. the dnc -- >> you're claiming donald trump, jr. was transparent from the get go? >> donald trump, jr. is transparent. absolutely. >> he didn't just release his e-mails -- >> anderson, you're like a broken record. >> because i'm not getting answers from you. >> i'm answering every time. >> you're respond being bull you' -- but you're not actually answer. >> let the viewers judge, you are 13th place in national ratings behind nick at night which is at 11:00. >> you used that line on monday. it was mildly amusing monday. >> 4 million viewers. you barely scratch 200,000. >> i think it's funny you have enough time at the white house which apparently you're so busy you're able to sit around and read kneel son numbers. >> i get good prep from my team
because the white house team is superb. i don't deal with this because i have a day job. >> last night donald trump, jr. said two contradictory things. he said people are trying to reach out all the time with campaign with information like this which many surrogates have said this happens all the time. he also said no one else at any time during the campaign reached out saying that information about hillary clinton. so, which is it? did it happen all the time or did it never happen? a r >> i will return to what the president and donald trump, jr. and also jay sekulow said, that in the heat of the campaign, he took a meeting as a favor to an acquaintance. that meeting was sold to him on false pretenses and as soon as it was clear that that was the case, it ended. >> right. but the surrogates are saying it happened all the time. he said it happened all the time. but then he also said last night, this is the only time it ever happened. i'm just trying to get a straight answer. >> you'd have to ask him. i didn't run his day planner. >> fair enough. the president's nominee for fbi
director was asked if it was appropriate for him to take the meeting. i want to play that for our viewers. >> let me ask you this. if i got a call from somebody saying the russian government wants to help lindsey graham get reelected, they've got dirt on lindsey graham's opponent, should i take that meeting? >> senator, i would think you would want to consult with some goods legal advisors before you did that. >> so the answer is should i call the fbi? >> i think it would be wise to let -- >> you're going to be the director of the fbi, pal. so, here's what i want you to tell every politician. if you get a call from somebody suggesting that a foreign government wants to help you by disparaging your opponent, tell us all to call the fbi. >> to the members of this committee, any threat or effort to interfere with our elections from any nation state or any nonstate actor is the kind of thing the fbi would want to know. >> so, i'm just wondering, do you believe the president's
nominee for the lead of the fbi is right or wrong, this is something donald trump, jr. should have called the fbi about and your claim about ukraine involvement with the dnc which they deny if that happened, that they should call -- they should have called the fbi about it? >> no, they actually initiated it. the dnc initiated -- that's where the real story is. when you actually go to another government to coordinate dirt on a political campaign -- this isn't something we started. there is a massive difference. you do know the difference, right? when you initiate it, when you initiate it -- >> i understand the word initiate. >> good. >> we've actually reported on this, politico wrote the article i believe it was back in january. i'll put it up on the screen. so did cnn. if -- the difference is there is not as far as we know an active investigation of any ukraine involvement. and frankly, if there was, i think it would be a much bigger story and i would love to report on it every single night.
but there is an active fbi investigation into russian collusion in this election and russian involvement in this election and any possible collusion with the campaign. so, that's why i think there is a difference in the reporting. >> but then why haven't you dedicated ten minutes of another segment which is meant to be about international relations on that story instead of what you're doing now? >> what i need to do right now is i should take a commercial break. when i come back i actually want to ask you about the president's trip to france and the victory in mosul if you're willing to stick around. >> i'd be delighted. >> i appreciate that. we'll be back in a moment.
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welcome back. with the president heading to france for bastille day, we're talking with white house correspondent sebastian. obviously the president has been critical of france in the past. it is an important ally. >> absolutely. it's our oldest ally. so, we are delighted that thanks to the 100th anniversary of america's engagement in world war i, the president and the united states is being recognized as the guest of honor at this year's bastille celebration. it is the first time an american president has gone to these celebrations in decades. and we want to reassure everybody, as we did at the g20, as secretary mattis and the vice-president have done in recent visits, that we stand by our allies. we stand by article 5, and we understand -- i was with a senior french diplomat just minutes before i came here --
that we have a very serious common concern, and that's the threat of terrorism to france, to the western civilization that nato represents. >> there was other good news for the white house. the iraqi government has declared victory over isis in mosul. nick payton walsh has been reporting and other cnn personnel over the battle. it is a huge victory, obviously not the end of isis at all. the distrust between sunni shi'a and curds will continue to exist inside iraq. how does that get solved from a political standpoint? >> look, it is a massive event, you're right, because this isn't just a second biggest city in iraq. it's also the city that -- where the isis, the islamic state, declared caliphate in 2014. so, when prime minister abadi says caliphate is now destroyed, he's absolutely right. when it comes to the long-term victory, yes, it's not about can i net iks. it's not just about body bags or
hvts, high body targets being killed, it's about the political end in state iraq. i think there is a simple formula here. all of these individuals, whatever clan, whatever religious group you belong to, whatever tribe, there is one simple question. will your future, the future of your children, your grandchildren be served by continued fighting, continued sectarian violence, or by iraq coming back together as a nation? i don't think that's the hard sell logically. maybe emotionally, but that's what we're going to do with our allies, with our partners, is to create an iraq that functions again as a unitary state. >> there have also been reports this week that isis leader baghdady has been killed. has the united states been able to confirm that? >> so, right now we treat all of these reports with great skepticism. remember for how long anderson, the reports were that bin lauden was dead or he was on dialysis in a cave. totally bogus.
we have the most powerful intelligence community in the world. we are assessing these reports, but right now we are not going to verify. >> fair enough. i also want to ask you about something in "the new york times" earlier this week. they said the white house reached out to erik prince, the founder of the security firm black water, the military contractor of dine core which has done a lot of work in afghanistan over the years. asked them to devise alternatives to the pentagon's plan to send thousands of more troops to afghanistan, a, can you confirm that's in fact the case? and that the white house did reach out to those two men? >> i'm not going to confirm or deny what meetings we have in the white house or elsewhere. but we are very open to outside ideas. we see the last eight years as having brought disastrous national security decisions, whether it was in libya, in syria, in iraq or elsewhere. so, this is an administration -- this is a president who wants new ideas. we're not going to stay in the washington bubble or the
corridor of wonkery. we want people who understand the threat, who have been there in the field and just people who have new ideas because the last eight years -- in fact, the last 16 years have not brought security to america or to our allies. >> as a nerd and a wonk, i won't take that personally but i think you're kind of a wonk as well. deputy assistant to the president, appreciate your time. >> >> thanks. >> lot to talk about joining the panel tonight, kristen paris, dana bash, and gloria borger. first of all, you heard sebastian gorka pushing back on the idea the white house is under siege in any way. he says things are going swimmingly, nothing to see here. >> right. look, it seems to me it depends on with whom you speak at the white house. i spoke with somebody last night who said that it's quieter inside than you would think, and that obviously today is a lot better than it was yesterday for the white house. but there are still the factions
there that remain. the president, i have been told by somebody who talks to him quite regularly, that the president believes that the media is creating a conspiracy that does not exist, and that is what you heard from sebastian gorka. and that he intends to continue fighting back this way, and that is, again, what you heard from mr. gorka. >> dana, we hear, though, from john mccain on capitol hill today who said this has sucked all of the oxygen out of the room, this drip, drip, drip. even trey goudy saying, look, it's a drip which is hurting the president's agenda. >> no question about it. as much as the president and the advisors who come on television want to argue that there is nothing to see here, there's no distraction, we're just work, work, working like normal, it's just not reality. and even if they can walk and
chew gum at the same time inside the white house, what you talked about from john mccain and virtually every other republican who will even stop and talk about it on capitol hill, is a bigger dose of reality. and that is that they're the ones who are trying really, really hard to, for example, come up with 50 votes to fulfill the republicans' promise to repeal and replace obamacare. and even though they're trying to sort of stay tunnel vision on it, it isn't easy to do when you have a lot of incoming and sort of loud noise that you cannot ignore, which is pretty consequential. and by that, i mean, of course, the continuous drum beat the russia story. >> it's interesting, kiersten, the president has now reverted today to going back to the old, you know, the old chesnut of fake news, don't believe sources when for days the white house has been sort of quiet and unable to push back or figure
out a way to push back because all the reporting has been completely accurate. >> right. >> as borne out by donald trump's own e-mails. donald junior. >> this isn't open to interpretation. this isn't something, it's not an anonymous source. it's something that was actually tweeted out by the president's son. everybody can look at it. and, so, it's not something that the media has come up with and you can do the normal questioning that they do. nonetheless, he's still going with the hashtag fake news thing. we saw sebastian gorka doing the same thing. and also i think doing a lot of gaslighting where he, you know, just really wouldn't answer the question, claiming that, you know, donald junior has been transparent when he really hasn't been transparent. >> by every definition of transparency, that is not transparent. >> he forced something because you got tipped off it's going to be released by "the new york times." giving a bunch of different stories -- first it was there were no meetdings with the russians. and it was a meeting but it was about adoption. it's not really about adoption. that's not transparency.
>> even the idea that it was about adoption, adoption is, in russias it it's not about adopt it's about sanctions. >> it's about the ban or slowing down of the adoption process is really important because it ties into murders. it ties into human rights. it ties into what kind of actors we're dealing with when you're talking about the putin government. and that is what sort of makes them an adversary. there are a lot of different he was and a lot of different reasons you can characterize russia maybe not acting in the best interest of the united states. but that is universal when you're talking about journalists and lawyers and others turning up dead that we have sanctions in place because of those and other sort of aggressive actions including the seizure of territory. so, you know, to say that i took this meeting, even though i have an e-mail showing that the government was out to sort of discredit my opponent and nothing came of it, therefore
it's all fake news, that's not even going to begin to cut it. the insults and the bluster and bullying i think just indicates the white house is worried about it. >> mary catherine, the drip-drip is interesting to me and trey goudy today saying, look, if you had a meeting with someone from russia, just tell the special counsel. just be up front about it, get it out of the way before "the new york times" tracks it down. >> i don't think that's in their nature. i don't think that is going to be a shift we're going to see. had you seen it earlier, i think it would have helped. look, this is the story where, because it comes from his own son, and because it's getting closer to donald trump. but deal with his children which i think makes it a bit more emotional for him that that's who this is touching, this story is touching right now. i have no doubt that the white house is pretty good at operating in a chaotic environment most of the time or at least that's where they're comfortable. this may be far more chaotic and get in the way of doing things because there's actually this real female that says
essentially all the things they've been saying did not happen, there is this pin to hang it on now with his own son saying, look, yeah, come to me with this. >> and yet on the one hand his son last night says this happened -- kind of thing happened all the time and the next sentence, i have the line here somewhere, in the next sentence, oh, no, this was the only time it ever actually happened. >> yeah. i mean i just don't think he's a particularly credible source at this point on anything, you know. and i think that the fact that this -- he didn't -- the reaction should have been oh, my gosh, what the russian government is supporting or campaigning, okay, call the fbi. it's just -- that right there, everything from there on out is problematic. >> right. the line exactly he said was but people are trying to reach out to you all the time with this. and later henny says was anyone else at this point in the campaign? oh, i've got information about hillary that you remember. he said, no, no. dana, we've heard that time and again from surrogates saying, look, this happens all the time in the russian campaign.
>> exactly that's what i was going to say, anderson. here's from wash aington and somebody who has covered campaign many years, it doesn't happen all the time. opposition research people offering you dirt on your opponents, yes. but this particular flavor of it from a foreign national and from an adversary, not enemy, but an adversary of the united states, and particularly a country like russia which is known -- and even the president knows because -- and his people know and his family knows because they've done business in russia. they understand some of the kind of -- the craft that they use to get information or to put information out there. come on, i mean, it's not -- this is not what happens. and there is example after example that we know from covering it real-time in 2000, the gore campaign got something they shouldn't have gotten and they gave it to the fbi.
i'll go back to what his fbi nominee himself said today. that is not okay. you must contact the fbi. it is standard operating procedure. >> it's also interesting, gloria, to hear gorka and others from the white house saying, look, we should be paying attention to ukraine and alleged outreach to the dnc which the dnc denies, was looked into by a lot of fact checking organizations. it is not sebastian gorka portrayed it. i certainly believe if there is wrongdoing, anybody should be investigated. but the fact is there is not, as far as we know, an ongoing fbi investigation into ukraine involvement in the election. there is one into russia. >> right. and, you know, that is sort of the knee jerk reaction, which is to deflect everything to hillary clinton. and it starts at the top. the president does this. and then it flows down. and everybody else says, well, the democrats did this. the democrats met with ukraine and plotted and, you know, that has not been proven at all.
and what we do have -- >> there was a contractor who worked for the dnc who met with people from the ukrainian embassy. >> right. >> there are hints of things, but there's no -- >> people around the dnc didn't know about it. it kind of unravels as you go along. and as you point out, if it were -- if it had happened and if the fbi were to take a look at it, you know, they obviously should. but what they do is they say, you guys are forming a conspiracy against us, but you're not -- but in a way they're setting up another conspiracy, which is the media conspiracy against them, and that's how they've decided to fight back on this rather than on the substance it's about something else. >> right. i want to thank everybody. coming up, some lawmakers demanding answers on capitol hill. what they still want to know next, also new cnn exclusive video shows the president, rob goldstone, russian pop star and his father at a private dinner
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the latest revelations about the trump campaign's meeting with the russian lawyer not helping what is already fragile party unity within the gop ranks. now even republican lawmakers are demanding answers. cnn's manu raju on capitol hill with the latest. lawmakers being vocal today about this latest controversy. >> reporter: no question about it. they are growing weary about controversy after controversy coming out of the white house at a time republicans realize they have precious little time to pass what they had initially viewed as a rather ambitious legislative agenda. a number of them not only concerned about the meeting, the merits of the meeting and whether or not donald trump, jr. should have taken that meeting with the russian lawyer, but also undercutting their message at a crucial time on the hill. take a listen. >> everybody knows that. i think it's very difficult when you have this overwhelming barrage of new information that unfolds every few days.
>> i'm obviously concerned, fundamentally. americans are supposed to decide american elections. the american people and anybody running for office knows you don't take foreign campaign contributions, either monetary or of another sort. obviously there's lots of reasons to be concerned. >> there is a common perception we're not doing much and we're doing quite a bit. most people back home aren't even aware, they're caught up in the sort of daily distractions that go oncoming out of the white house. >> reporter: anderson, the one thing republicans are trying to do, of course s to pass a new health care bill, one that actually will be introduced in the senate tomorrow, but one thing the republicans are concerned about is that there is virtually no white house messaging operation at the moment to back them up because the white house constantly has to deal with these controversies day after day and is making it much harder for them to do their job up here, anderson. >> manu raju, thanks. this all started when a music
promoter, an e-mail that came from a russian pop star and his father. video shows these men in 2013 when citizen donald trump met with him. pamela brown has more. >> reporter: the behind the scenes video obtained exclusively by cnn shows then businessman donald trump in las vegas in 2013. at several events during the weekend of the miss usa pageant, hanging out with the men now at the center of the newest development in the russia controversy. the men russian pop singer emin agalarov and father were assisting trump hold a pageant in russia that year. >> the rich est men in russia. >> reporter: in the video trump is seen having dinner with the agalarovs along with their publicist rob goldstone seen here leaning over to talk with trump. on tuesday trump's son, donald junior released e-mails pitching a meeting between the
president's son and the russian lawyer. promising she would deliver damaging information about hillary clinton provided by the russian government. according to the e-mails released by trump junior, emin seen here told goldstone to set up the meeting. quote, emin just called me and asked me to contact you with something interesting. this is obviously high level information but it's part of russia and it's government support for mr. trump. the exclusive footage provides a closer look at the friendship between the two families, and could help explain donald trump, jr.'s willingness to take the meeting arranged by goldstone. at dinner trump can be heard boasting to the men about his work on the miss universe pageant. the next day in front of reporters, trump spoke about the promise of taking miss universe to russia. >> i think it will be great for both countries and honestly --
>> reporter: trump predicting his pageant could bring u.s. and russia closer together. >> this could certainly help that relationship. >> reporter: investigators plan to examine the trump tower meeting and the e-mails. on fox news tuesday, donald trump, jr. who does not appear in the 2013 video, said he had limited knowledge of the russian family. >> i met emin once or twice and maintained a casual relationship there, talked about casual deals, that's the extent of it. they didn't go anywhere. >> reporter: but new video and others show the president's own connections. >> what's wrong with you? >> reporter: in 2013 trump appeared in one of emin's music videos. >> you're just another pretty face. i'm really tired of you. you're fired. >> reporter: and wished him happy birthday in a video posted on emin's instagram. >> emin, i can't believe you're turning 35.
>> reporter: on cnn's new day, their lawyer said the e-mails don't add up. >> it's just fantasy world because the reality is if there was something important that mr. agalarov wanted to communicate to the trump campaign, i suspect he could have called mr. trump directly as opposed to having his son's pop music publicist be the intermediary. >> pamela brown joins us now. i understand we heard from the father of the pop star today. what did he say? >> reporter: that's right. ross agalarov spoke to a radio station in the wake of the e-mail release. he said he doesn't personally know don junior. he also said he doesn't really know goldstone either. he said it was a, quote, tall tale that goldstone asked trump junior to contact him about dirt on hillary clinton. so, it's clear that all sides involved in this, anderson, are trying to distance themselves from one another. >> the interesting thing is i talked to the attorney yesterday and he denied there was a phone conversation between donald trump, jr. and the russian pop star. tm be interesting to see if any
evidence of that phone call turns up. in the e-mails it seems there was some sort of phone call before this meeting. >> reporter: yeah. i can tell you that robert mueller who is overseeing the special probe will be looking at that. we know, we've been told from our sources that now this is part of the probe, the investigation. and, so, you can bet that that's something that will be looked at as well. >> right, what was said in that phone call. pamela brown, thanks very much. one person present in that trump/russia meeting is still in the west wing. up next how jared kushner fits into all of this.
well, the main focus right now is on donald trump, jr.'s involvement with the lawyer he believed was connected to the kremlin. questions are now swirling about someone else in the conference room, the president's son-in-law and trusted advisor jared kushner took the meeting as well and still as far as we know has a valid security clearance. the white house won't confirm whether or not he does, in fact, still have access to top secret national security information. meanwhile kushner and his wife ivanka are in sun valley, idaho for a high profile business meeting and tech conference. randi kaye has more on kushner's
role. >> reporter: his name is in the e-mail chain. jared kushner. the e-mail forwarded june 8, 2016, just after 12:00 noon. from his brother-in-law donald trump, jr. to kushner and paul manafort then head of the trump campaign. now senior white house advisor, kushner was being invited to meet with a russian attorney. it had been promised she would deliver dirt on hillary clinton. the lawyer told nbc she remembered kushner. >> translator: i could recognize the young gentleman who was only present in the meeting probably the first 7 to 10 minutes. and then he stood up and left the room. it was mr. jared kushner and he never came back, by the way. >> reporter: and there you have it. the russian lawyer herself placing kushner, the so-called secretary of everything, in yet another meeting with a russian that was initially left off the forms he filled out to gain white house security clearance. had all those meetings simply slipped his mind? let's review. there was the meeting with
russian ambassador sergey kislyak at trump tower during the transition. that's when kushner allegedly tried to set up back channel communication to the kremlin. the white house declined to comment. >> i don't like it. i just don't. >> also the meeting with sergey gorkov, who not only has ties to president putin, but runs a bank under u.s. sanctions for the last three years. the optics are troubling. >> my dashboard warning light was clearly on and that was the case with all in the intelligence community. >> and now this meeting with natalia veselnitskaya. has some wondering how many other meetings kushner might not have disclosed and if security clearance should be revoked. the application form jared kushner filled out is known as the sf-86 form. and you might say kushner seas a
work in progress. the left time he filled it out he left the foreign contacts blank. the next day he amended that to say he had multiple contacts and would be disclosing them. the same form was modified a third time in recent weeks to include the meeting with donald jr. and the russian lawyer, a source told cnn. in a statement over the weekend, kushner's attorney explained that his sf-86 clearance form was prematurely submitted, referring to his original four months ago. and reiterated that her client is eager to cooperate and share what he knows with congress. while that sounds good, keep in mind that kushner's application for security clearance is submitted under penalty of perjury. that's because unlike his brother-in-law, donald jr. who is not a government employee, jared kushner is and was required by law to disclose his meetings with foreign governments. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> i want to bring in our legal panel with me now.
jeffrey toobin, jonathan painter and jeffrey turley. he amended his security clearance forms not once, but twice. it seems like the second time only after paul manafort according to "the new york times" told capitol hill about this meeting with donald trump jr. at what point should he stop getting the benefit of the doubt that it was just an oversight? >> well, one of the things about security clearances is the more powerful you are in the government, the less likely the officials are to give you a problem on security clearance. i mean, it is not an equitable system. but what is so troubling about this whole issue of omitting these visits is that the whole purpose of disclosing the names of the foreign nationals you've met with is so that the background clearance folks can investigate these meetings. and look at what the circumstances were. so this is not just some technicality.
this is something that is actually crucial to determining why someone should be granted or denied a security clearance and he seems to have had a great deal of trouble in getting his form right. >> professor turley, the other part of it is to that the u.s. knows everything that a foreign government, and maybe a foreign adversarial government may know. if the russians had this information, you know, about this meeting from the time it happened, and yet on the u.s. side, that information isn't sent around, the russians, therefore, have something on jared kushner, potentially. >> no, it's a valid objection. the really thumping heart of that form is, in fact, foreign contacts. i've had to fill out that form many times since the reagan administration, to keep clearances in cases that i was working on. and that's the one that i really, and most of us, really sweat over, to make sure that we list all of the foreign contacts we may have had. so, this is a legitimate ground of criticism, right above the signature block is a reference
to 18 usc 1001. that's the false statement sections of the criminal code. that's the section that gets most people into trouble in washington. it's rarely the scandal, it's often the aftermath. it's when people make false statements. they try to be too clever by half, or they omit things. people get charged under that. and as a criminal defense attorney, i have to say, a 1001 charges are the ones you really want least to see in an indictment, because they tend to be very easy to prove in a courtroom. having said that, most emissions on sf-86s do not result in prosecutions. it's usually administrative measures, particularly the denial of the clearance, which is unlikely, obviously, in this case. >> richard painter, what do you say to those who are saying that jared kushner shouldn't have a security clearance or it should be looked at. >> well, he has had an awful lot of contacts with the russians, and in a lot of different contexts, it seems like he has the wrong job.
maybe he ought to be the united states ambassador to russia, maybe the russian ambassador to the united states. i don't know. but the point is that he really has a lot of these contacts and he seems to have forgotten about just about all of them when filling out these forms, in a context where there's enormous controversy about russia and russian espionage inside the united states and russian meddling in the election. i mean, it's shocking. that's what we have as a consistent pattern, not just with mr. kushner, but others in this administration, lying about their contacts with the russians, up until a day or two ago, they kept repeating the mantra that there was no collaboration, and now we've got smoking gun e-mails, showing that donald trump jr. and the other two, kushner and manafort were eager to collaborate with the russians and running over there to have a meeting with this russian lawyer who was, they were told, was an agent of the government. that's a meeting that no loyal american would attend, unless
they're wearing a wire that the fbi had put on them. you know, that is a very, very dangerous situation, when russians are offering you dirt on your opponent. >> we're going to continue this conversation after the break. i want to get your take on what the president said to reuters about whether he knew about this meeting, when it actually happened. we'll be right back. there's nothing more important to me than my vacation. so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we're booking.yeah!
son, donald jr., was meeting with the russian lawyer at trump tower last summer. now at the heart of this scandal. instead, he said he only found out a few days ago. back now with the panel. as a legal matter, are you surprised that the president would go on the record publicly and adamantly insisting he had no knowledge of his son's meeting with the lawyer either prior to it or recently. a meeting that included kushner and manafort? >> he is not afraid to take bold stands. he's obviously been wrong, i think it's charitable to say wrong as opposed to lying about the fact that there was no contacts between his campaign and people affiliated with the russian government. we know, now, from these e-mails, that that's the case. what he has to worry about is what are the other e-mails show? i mean, here, you know, these are very important e-mails that were just released. but that's a tiny fraction, obviously, of the e-mails that are going to be available to the special counsel. former director mueller.