tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 12, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
that he did not know that his son, donald jr., was meeting with the russian lawyer at trump tower last summer. now at the heart of this scandal. instead, he said he only found out a few days ago. back now with the panel. as a legal matter, are you surprised that the president would go on the record publicly and adamantly insisting he had no knowledge of his son's meeting with the lawyer either prior to it or recently. a meeting that included kushner and manafort? >> he is not afraid to take bold stands. he's obviously been wrong, i think it's charitable to say wrong as opposed to lying about the fact that there was no contacts between his campaign and people affiliated with the russian government. we know, now, from these e-mails, that that's the case. what he has to worry about is what are the other e-mails show? i mean, here, you know, these are very important e-mails that were just released. but that's a tiny fraction, obviously, of the e-mails that are going to be available to the special counsel. former director mueller.
so, you know, what will the e-mails show about discussions that he may have had with his son and other people about contacts with russia. >> professor -- >> even if the president was informed, at some point, you know, before or shortly after the meeting, does that from a legal standpoint matter? >> well, it can matter, you know i have a column on this in the hill in the morning, about what a 1001 investigation means. and the most important thing from the defense side is to maintain the one thing that's alluded the trump white house. that is the consistent, coherent narrative. where you get into trouble with 1001 is when you have all these conflicting accounts. it broadens the investigation, it undermines other parties, including in this case, your own son. so this could be very damaging in terms of the scope of the investigation and adding more questions for your son, who's -- or your son-in-law in this case,
who's fast becoming a target. >> richard, can you explain just what kind of teeth federal ethics officials actually have. we saw the director of the office of government on ethics resign just i think it was last week, at least partly because of frustration with the current administration. >> well, yes. you've got to have a bar somewhat higher that be what do you do to keep your clients out of jail. and we're spending a lot of time in the past couple of days in particular, talking about various criminal statutes and which you would charge under and which you wouldn't, whether you meet the burden of proof. and this is respect to very high-ranking people in an administration only six months into the administration. i personally can't believe that donald trump, when he was a candidate, wouldn't be aware if his son-in-law, his son, and paul manafort, all three, were meeting with a russian lawyer who was told -- they were told an agent of the russian government, that he would be unaware of that. of course, he says he's unaware of that. he says a lot of things, but
i'll believe that when i believe president obama was born in kenya. i've heard so much nonsense coming out of the white house, including the president -- >> the other bigger thick that they learned in that e-mail or whether they learned it for the first time or heard it before is that the russian government was backing donald trump as a candidate. the idea that he wouldn't have been told that is -- i mean, it's possible, i suppose. but we've got to leave it there. >> it's impossible! it makes no sense. >> thanks, everybody. coming up now, how confrontational was the president during vladimir putin -- the meeting with vladimir putin? does he really believe that russia hacked the election? answers tonight in a new interview. also, the latest on a white house under siege over the donald trump donald trump e-mail revelation, plus, republican lawmakers grappling with how to react. and struggling to pass a health care bill. reporting for us tonight, cnn's jessica schneider. ryan nobel is on capitol hill. pamela brown with some new exclusive video. we begin at the white house and jessica schneider.
so the president addressing donald trump jr.'s meeting with w reuters. what is he saying? >> the president saying he knew nothing about that june 26th meeting between his eldest son and that russian lawyer. the president really, this is the first time he's spoken out about this, saying he didn't know anything about it. of course, his lawyer and the deputy press secretary, this is the same message that they've been pushing for the past 24 to 48 hours. the president telling reuters this, saying, i didn't know until a couple of days ago, when i heard about this, i think many people would have had that meeting. of course, i think that's the exact same sentiment that his son, donald trump jr. issued in an interview last night. donald trump jr. saying that he was a political novice, a businessman, and as a businessman, he believed taking this meeting was okay. his father tonight, the president, issuing that same sort of sentiment. anderson? >> as the president departs for france, he hasn't had any events since returning from germany saturday night. did the white house address that today? >> the president has been out of the public eye for four days
now. a rare stretch for a sitting president. at the press briefing, deputy press secretary, sarah huckabee sanders addressed this. she said that just because the president isn't standing behind a podium doesn't mean he isn't communicating with the american public. she talked about the meetings he has been holding, and she said this -- >> there's nothing secret about having meetings, which i read off to you earlier with members of his staff and members of the administration. the president had an incredibly robust schedule overseas in both poland and germany and he's preparing to leave this afternoon, where he'll be spending quite a bit of time with a lot of those of you who are traveling and will be taking questions from you guys tomorrow. >> reporter: and of course the president on air force one right now, on his way to paris. he will hold that press conference with the french president, emmanuel macron, tomorrow. of course, it's very likely at that point, president trump will face some of these questions about donald trump's jr. with that russian lawyer.
and of course, those e-mails that came out just yesterday. anderson? >> the irony about sarah huckabee sanders' comments is that she's not saying them on camera. that they're not allowing cameras to videotape white house briefings. thanks. coming up next, manu raju with capitol hill where the president's pick to head the fbi testified today. his name is chris wray. more than a few prominent republican lawmakers have been speaking up and speaking out, demanding answers. what have been you been learning, manu? >> reporter: frustrated. a lot of members are concerned about this constant revelation, day after day, new controversies. and the inability of the white house to put it behind them and the failure in the words of people like trey gowdy, a conservative south carolina republican who heads the house oversight committee, saying, just disclose this information right away to investigators. don't let this be a peer in the press. this is something other republicans say is constantly undermining what they're trying to do up here, including senator
john mccain, who told me, quote, it's sucking the oxygen about the room, this issue about the russia investigation and the failure of the white house to deal with it in an effective manner. this is one area. the other area, is just to learn more about what's happening. this is really putting some new steam behind some of these investigations on capitol hill. a lot of members want to learn more about that meeting that donald trump jr. had, anderson. >> right, you mentioned the ongoing congressional investigations. have any of the committees extended invitations to donald trump jr. to appear before them? >> well, they have expressed interest. whether there's actually a formal invitation, that process is still being worked out. chuck grassley, the chairman of the senate judiciary committee, told me earlier today that he planned to have a phone call to help try to set up an impossible interview with donald trump jr. his committee, the senate judiciary committee also wants to hear from paul manafort, the former campaign chairman of donald trump's who was at that meeting with donald trump jr. and the russian lawyer. manafort himself, of course, already of interest to investigators on capitol hill,
given his long connections with russia, his meetings with russians. he of course has denied any collusion. but the interesting aspect of the manafort news today is chuck grassley wants him to do it in a public session next week. that is much quicker than a lot of people anticipated. he's even threatening to subpoena for manafort's appearance. but he's trying to work that out with special counsel, bob mueller, to see if that will work out. >> manu raju, thanks. late today, video surfaced of three main figures with donald j. trump. jr. emane chain. cnn's justice correspondent, pamela brown joins us now with the exclusive pictures. pam? >> cnn has obtained this exclusive video from 2013 of donald trump meeting with the father and the son who last year allegedly promised to help pass along damaging information about hillary clinton from the russian government to donald trump jr. through an intermediary. and the video really is a fresh look inside their relationship, apparently just as it was beginning.
the behind-the-scenes video, obtained exclusively by cnn, shows then businessman, donald trump, in las vegas in 2013. at several events during the weekend of the miss usa pageant, hanging out with the men now at the center of the newest development in the russian controversy. the men, russian pop singer, emin agalarov, and his father, aras, a real estate developer in russia, were helping trump hold his miss universe pageant in moscow later that year. >> the richest men in russia. >> in the video, trump is seen having dinner with the agalarovs, along with their publicist, rob goldstone, seen here leaning over to talk with trump. on tuesday, trump's son, donald jr., released e-mails from goldstone, pitching a meet between with a russian lawyer, promising she would provide damaging information about hillary clinton provided by the russian government. according to the e-mails released by trump jr., emin
agalarov seen here between trump and goldstone told goldstone to set up the meeting. "emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting. this is obviously very high-level and sensitive information, but it's part of russia and its government's support for mr. trump." the exclusive footage provides a closer look at the friendship between the two families and could help explain donald trump jr.'s willingness to take the meeting arranged by goldstone. at dinner, trump can be heard boasting to the men about his work on the miss universe pageant. the next day in front of reporters, trump spoke grandly about the promise of taking miss universe to russia. >> i think it's a great thing for both countries. and honestly, they really wanted it in russia very badly, politically they wanted it. >> reporter: trump predicting his pageant could even bring russia and the u.s. closer. >> it really is a great country. it's a very powerful country.
it's a country that we have a relationship, but not a great relationship, and i think that this can certainly help that relationship. >> reporter: investigators plan to examine the trump tower meeting and the e-mails. on fox news tuesday, donald trump jr., who does not appear in the 2013 video, said he had limited knowledge of the russian family. >> i met emin once or twice and maintained a casual relationship there, talked about some potential deals and that was the extent of it. they really didn't go anywhere. >> but new video and others show the president's own connections. >> what's wrong with you? >> reporter: in 2013, trump appeared in one of emin's music videos. >> you're always late. you just don't have a pretty face. i'm really tired of you. you're fired! >> and wished him happy birthday in a video posted on emin's instagram. >> emin, i can't believe you're turning 35. >> on cnn's "new day," their lawyer said the e-mails don't add up. >> it's just fantasy world.
the reality is if there was something important that mr. agalarov wanted to communicate to the trump campaign, i suspect he could have called mr. trump directly. as opposed to having his son's pop music publicist be the intermediary. >> pamela, it's weird. i talked to that attorney yesterday and he had a different answer on that. he said they actually weren't that close and that's why they were using the intermediary. we heard from the father of the pop star today. what did he say? >> well, yeah, it is interesting that you point that out. he was making the point in that interview that he would have reach out directly to the trumps, but in the interview he recently had with a russian radio station, bfm, he tried to distance himself in the wake of the e-mail release, that the father of this russian pop star, aras agalarov. he said he didn't personally know don jr. and said he doesn't really know goldstone either. and he said it was a, quote, tall tale that goldstone asked trump jr. to contact him about dirt on hillary clinton. so really all sides here trying to distance themselves from this. anderson? >> pam brown, thanks. and thanks to all of our reporters. back to the capitol now to one
of the items that republicans, including the president himself is getting lost in the fog of the russia story, health care. mainly passing a gop replacement for the affordable care act. cnn's ryan nobles joins us now with that. so i understand the president had some strong words in support of this bill tonight. what did he say? >> anderson, he's made it very clear he wants to see a bill to replace and repeal the obamacare health care bilk bill very soon. and he's really placing that responsibility on senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell. listen to what he told the christian broadcasting network in an interview set to air tomorrow. >> it has to get passed. they have to do it. they have to get together and get it done. >> what will happen if they don't? >> well, i don't want to even talk about it. i think it will be very bad. i will be very angry about it. and a lot of people will be very upset. but i'm sitting waiting for that bill to come to my desk. >> mitch mcconnell is a tactician of great skill. do you think he can pull it off? it's his job.
>> he's got to pull it off. mitch has to pull it off. he's working very hard. he's got to pull it off. >> and there's been some question about just how active the president has been in this process. senators do say that he's been engaged in the debate. but he hasn't really used his bully pulpit to convince his supporters to get behind this bill. we'll see if that changes after this new bill is revealed tomorrow morning. >> is there any sense that republicans are making progress to getting the 50 votes they need to pass? >> there really isn't a whole lot of optimism up here, anderson. there seems to be a pretty big divide between the conservative and moderate wings of the party. we'll see when this bill comes out tomorrow and the subsequent cbo score, which won't come out until the beginning of next week to see if that divide can be brought together in any way, shape, or form. but rate now, it seems like a tall task for republicans to get this bill passed. >> ryan nobles, thanks very much. we're going to return to the russia story after the break. you'll hear from a member of the senate intelligence committee and we'll look closer at how all the pieces of a very intricate puzzle fit together. not just this meeting but everything that happened in the weeks and months that follows.
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british music promoter, a russian singer, his oligarch father, a russian lawyer peddling criminal intelligence on hillary clinton, add in the president's son, his son-in-law, his campaign chairman, bring them all together at trump tower, documented all in a chain of e-mails, stir gently, wait a year, and you have the beginnings of a spy story and some believe a smoking gun in the trump/russia collusion saga. before we hear from one of the senators trying to unravel it all, let's walk through it step by step. tom foreman has the timeline. >> reporter: late spring, 2016. hillary clinton is on a roll. polls have her far ahead of donald trump. a white house endorsement is just days away. then, june 3rd. an intriguing e-mail arrives for donald trump jr. from a music promoter for a russian azari pop star offering information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia and would be very useful to your father, claiming to be part of a russian government effort to help trump win. "i love it," the candidate's son responds.
june 7th, a meeting is set to discuss the matter with russian lawyer, natalia veselnitskaya. four hours later, a big announcement. >> i am going to give a major speech on probably monday of next week. and we're going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the clintons. i think you're going to find it very informative and very, very interesting. >> reporter: two days later, june 9th at trump tower, donald jr., trump's son-in-law, jared kushner, and campaign official paul manafort have their meeting with veselnitskaya for the promised dirt on clinton. but donald jr. now says it was a waste of time. >> i think i wanted to hear her out. but really, it went nowhere and it was apparent that that wasn't what the meeting was actually about. >> reporter: his father who was also at trump tower that afternoon needles clinton with a tweet that same day, where are your 33,000 e-mails that you deleted? june 15th, a cybersecurity firm announces a major hack of
democratic national committee computers and blames the russians. a week later, trump final rolls out that major speech he promises, once again talking about clinton's e-mails, but offering no new information. >> while we may not know what's in those deleted e-mails, our enemies probably know every single one of them. >> reporter: mid-july, the republican convention, trump is now officially the nominee. his campaign chairman, paul manafort, dismissing all allegations of ties to russia. >> no, there are not. it's absurd and, you know, there's no basis to it. >> july 22nd, wikileaks posts nearly 20,000 e-mails from democratic committee computers. some embarrassing and damaging to the party and its candidate. yet, on cnn's "state of the union," donald jr. dismisses democratic howls about russian interference. >> well, it just goes to show
you their exact moral compass. i mean, they'll say anything to be able to win this. this is time and time again, lie after lie. and a few days later, donald trump says this. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> investigators must now scrutinize this timeline and many more details with the trump team insisting any appearance of working with the russians is purely a coincidence and skeptics saying it looks a lot more like collusion. anderson? >> tom foreman, thanks. we wanted to hear from a republican on the senate intelligence committee tonight, to react to the trump jr. e-mails and other key developments. we invited them all. none agreed to come on the program this evening. however, democrat ron wyden did. i spoke with the oregon senator a short time ago. senator, yesterday after donald trump donald trump jr.'s e-mails were released, you tweeted saying, it is now incumbent of elected officials from both parties to stand up and do their duty, protect and defend the constitution. what did you mean my that?
>> first of all, i hope that this will lay to rest the argument that we hear in these corridors that there isn't any evidence of collusion, because there certainly is clear evidence that there was an attempt at collusion. and what my colleagues have got to do and it's important to do this in a bipartisan way, is insist on strong oversight, ask the tough questions, make sure that there are plenty of open hearings, use the subpoena power, and go where the facts lead. >> do you question at this point his credibility. i mean, as you said, all we know about what happened in the meeting is from donald trump jr. and also the russian attorney, who has given an interview to nbc. the president, this morning, tweeted praising his son for being open and transparent, and yet we know, donald trump jr.'s story has changed multiple times. >> that's really the key point, anderson. i think we're now on the fourth change.
you know, it started off, it was something about adoption, then it was sort of a generalized sense about a contact with a russian. then it became clear that there was an e-mail, where it was going to be a session designed to advance donald trump's prospects for getting elected president. i think we're on the fourth version. and that's why i, as a member of the senate select committee on intelligence, we've got to make sure that if there are other versions and every time i think we've heard the last one, there has been another version. >> how big a cause for concern for you is it that jared kushner was not only at this meeting, but didn't initially disclose it on his security clearance form, had to for a second time amend his security clearance filing? >> it's very troubling. and what it tells me is that he should not be involved now in handling sensitive security
matters and materials. >> you think he should have his security clearance revoked? >> i've taken the position that on the floor of the united states senate we're not making judgments about people's security clearance. you and i have talked about that on the show before. but i certainly feel given, what you describe is now being reported extensively, he should not be involved in handling sensitive security materials and matters. >> he's one of the president's top advisers. that's a big statement. >> yes, it is. >> i understand that both paul manafort and jared kushner have agreed to testify in front of your committee. senator warner indicated on monday he wants donald trump jr. to testify, as well. how important is it to you that they all testify in public? how likely do you think that is? >> it is absolutely essential that this get on the public record. and anderson, for a little bit of history, for your viewers, as you know, i started this effort
back in january, we were asking mr. comey about matters he had looked into. that led to discussions between richard burr and senator warner about what the hearings were going to look like. and at the top of my list, i insisted on open hearings. it's absolutely critical. it's where some of the most important matters have come out in recent years. it's where i asked james clapper, whether the government had collected any type of data at all on hundreds or millions of americans and he lied. this hearing with those individuals has got to be on the public record, so that there can be accountability, both to the congress and to the american people. >> senator wyden, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thanks for having me, anderson. coming up, how the white house is trying to portray donald trump as a model of transparency. you'll hear from the white house insider on that next. the future isn't silver suits and houses on mars,
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you're avoiding asking the question about donald trump's lack of transparency from the beginning -- >> total transparency. >> so him saying that this meeting was about adoption issues, was about his concern for orphans, that was true? >> it was. it was absolutely misrepresented. the individual who requested the meeting -- >> but that's what he said the meeting was about on saturday, when he knew all along by saturday that that's not what the meeting was about. so that's not being transparent, right? >> when he gave as much information as was necessary to be put out there after the collusion accusations. >> it wasn't correct information. >> it was. >> that this meeting was about adoption, about orphans? >> all of it was true. all of it was true. that somebody wanted to provide negative information. >> he didn't say that. >> that the meeting was under false pretenses. >> he didn't say that. >> i thought we were going to talk about real issues, like what we're doing with our allies in france. >> we did talk about that later. with me now, mary katherine ham, errol louis, kirsten powers, scott jennings, and paul begala. scott, can the white house
really claim this was transparency with a straight face? i mean -- >> in a crisis public relations situation, typically you want your first response to be, you know, what's the old saying, measure twice, cut once. you don't want to be coming back to the well. they did, however it took, arrive at a transparent moment of e-mail release. that was a choice they had to make. they need to follow through on that now. and he does need to testify. he's offered to do it. that's absolutely the correct public posture. one worry i have about this whole issue is that in some of the reporting, there are west wing staffers on air force one, helping craft the response for donald trump jr.. >> reported that in "the new york times." >> yes, this is troubling, because you may have people who weren't in the meeting, who maybe didn't even know anything about it until that moment that are possibly now in the investigatory loop when they otherwise might not have been. and so, as someone who's lived through an investigation in a white house, paul may want to talk about this, too, it absorbs time, attention, and resources that most west wing staffers
just don't have. for them, i worry about that. a way forward for the white house here is to follow through on these pledges of transparency. pause, remember, kushner has also said he wants to talk. that is absolutely the correct public posture, but they need to get it going to give the public confidence they're going to follow through on it. >> paul, i'm sure you're dying to relive the investigation you went through. but do you agree with scott? in terms of -- it reminds me when john edwards, it's a different level, but gave a mea culpa interview and a professional interview and lied during that interview and had to later on correct. >> yeah, to scott's point about those staffers on air force one i really feel for, as well. presumably, completely innocent, but they had to craft a statement. the statement was false. it was misleading. it was knowingly misleading. you said, as you pointed out in your interview, that the meeting was about adoptions, it really wasn't. >> even about adoptions, it's about sanctions. >> of course. of trying to get around human rights sanctions that we rightly levied against the russian regime. that's a problem. if i could decode that interview you had -- >> please do.
i'm still trying to figure it out. >> first, he has a very important job in counterterrorism. he's a deputy assistant to the president. that's one tier down from the top, steve bannon, reince priebus, kellyanne conway. those are assistants. he's a second tier person. those become the most important in a crisis. they have to stay in their jobs. he is not staying in his jobs. he's supposed to be doing counterterrorism, that's really important work. instead of doing that, instead of briefing the president, for example, on his trip to france, he's coming on and insulting you and trying to defend something he probably doesn't know anything about. so that's a really bad sign for the trump white house. they need a legal strategy, a communications strategy, they need a management structure that keeps people in their jobs, so they actually can do the work for the american people. and these insults, though, by the way. if he had an answer, he would have given it to you. the reason he insulted you is because he can't answer the question. and my strong advice to him would be, well -- he said, i don't know, maybe he's doing the right thing for his own career. there was reporting in april,
may, and june that he was on his way out. yet here he is in july. my suspicion is because he gives interviews like that and insults us the way donald trump lakes. >> it's like don rickles, that's his sctich. he's like the hungarian don rickles. when he did answer questions, he said something that was factually incorrect. he said this lawyer was completely independent, had nothing to do with the kremlin. now, he has no actual knowledge of whether this lawyer is connected to the kremlin in any way. there's a lot of reporting by "the new york times" that she is, in fact, she denies it, the russian government denies it, but he doesn't know, and yet he's on television stating factually, she's independent. >> yeah, so it is interesting as paul's pointing out that it's him. and maybe there is nobody else who wants to do this, because this is very difficult to defend. so it says a lot that this person who really has no connection to this is coming out and saying things and not really making any substantiative argument. even the things he was saying was the equivalent of me trying to convince you that this dress is yellow.
i mean, it was -- he just kept saying that things -- that objectively happened and didn't happen, and wasn't willing to engage on the substance. and i think he is trying to ingratiate himself to the president, because there's no other explanation for why anybody would do this. >> first of all, i love you in yellow. look, it was transparent in the actual e-mail chain is transparent about what's going on here, almost shockingly so to the point like, why would you write that down. now, it may not mean that people have been alleging is possible, that the trump campaign openly colluded with the russian government in this giant global conspiracy to sway an american election, but this is the president's son in his own words saying to an allied lawyer of the russian government, bring it on. bring it to me. i would enjoy that information. and the distinction about whether it is legal or illegal
matters, and robert mueller will be dealing with that. but also the standard as with the clinton campaign and the e-mail stuff, the standard should not be if it's illegal, then it's totally okay. and too many people are running to that conclusion. >> and also what we've talked about before, even if she wasn't connected to the russian government, which it seems pretty clear she is, he thought she was. >> right, that's what matters. not -- >> right. >> whether or not she actually had information, which she keeps pointing out, oh, she the didn't have any, which we don't know if that's true or not, but he believed she was connected to the russian government or at least that's what was indicated in the e-mail, and that she had information coming from the russian government. >> well, that's the key point. is that the e-mail says, this is information from the russian government, as part of their campaign or as part of their effort to help donald trump, which, of course, raises additional questions. well, gee, what else, is this the first, is this the last? >> it did not sound like the first time. >> it did not sound like the first time. it's only under close questioning, presumably under oath, that we'll get to the bottom of this. hopefully in open session so the american people can find this out, but certainly mueller and
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members of the president's inner circle, time and time again, have denied any connection whatsoever between their campaign and their administration and russia. >> did any adviser or anybody in the trump campaign have any contact with the russians who were trying to meddle in the election? >> well, of course not. >> are there any ties between mr. trump, you, or your campaign and putin and his regime? >> no, there are not. that's absurd. >> did anyone involve in the trump campaign have any contact with russians trying to meddle with the election? >> absolutely not. >> so no collusion whatsoever between anybody involved with trump and anybody involved with russia in the 2016 campaign? >> no! >> i have been called a surrogate at a time or two, and i did not have communications with the russians. >> we don't know of any, any contacts with russian agents. >> this conversation never happened. >> this was time and time again, lie after lie.
>> i didn't take any money from russia, if that's what you're asking me. >> it's disgusting, it's so phony. >> why would there be any contacts between the campaign? >> i can't think of bigger lies. >> donald trump jr. himself told "the new york times" back in may, did i meet with people that were russian? i'm sure, i'm sure i did. but none that were set up. none that i can think of at the moment. and certainly none that was representing the campaign in any way, shape, or form. but now we know he did meet with a russian that was set up to get dirt on hillary clinton that was ostensibly from the russian government and ostensibly with a russian government attorney. back now with the panel. so the president tweeted, why weren't the same standards placed on the democrats. look what hillary clinton may have gotten away with, disgraceful. to your knowledge, has there ever been a time in history where the sitting president of the united states that has won in a completely legitimate election was so focused on the person who didn't win this far into his administration? >> well, i have to say, in
defense of donald trump, very often presidents blame their predecessors. he's actually blaming his opponent, which is a little more unusual. but franklin roosevelt attacked herbert hoover for 12 years. we do tend to do that. >> president obama went after george w. bush for -- >> and this president attacks -- by the way, i don't think that's so terrible. he's going to try to drag hillary into it. that's not a -- as a hillary supporter, that's not a concern that i have. it's more this -- it's kristen saying, a red dress is yellow. there's a monty python sketch where graham chapman says there is no cannibalism in the british navy. and by no, i mean there's a certain amount. first, right, there was absolutely no -- russia didn't hack. it was a 400-pound guy on his bed, right? then, well, russia hacked but we had no contacts. we saw them saying. okay, well, there were meeting, contacts, but no collusion. now there's evidence of collusion in this meeting with donald trump and their message is, cnn sucks, not here's what we're doing to protect america. >> and the president says, actually, anybody would take
this meeting. so now, we just watched all these people say, what? the shock and horror that you would ever suggest that we would meet with anybody connected to russia, and then the president says, i think many people would take this meeting. >> i mean, scott, you've worked on -- would anybody take this meeting? >> no. no. most people might have. most people probably would have called the white house or the campaign's lawyer or general counsel and say, what am i supposed to do this and then they would make a decision. >> which is what chris wray, the fbi nominee said today, well, i suggest that you would want to talk to some counsel about that. >> exactly. >> and then he said they called the fbi. >> let me translate from red america. here's what hacks off the trump people about clinton. even to in day. we had this issue that pops out and immediately we go from zero to treason and impeachment in 2.7 seconds, which is ridiculous. and all the while, these clinton people lecture us about, oh, if we had gotten this information, here's how we would have handled it. we would have handled it ethically.
when the trump people know that hillary clinton was literally handing out hammers to people to destroy 13 phones and five ipads. who did they call when that happened? the answer is, they called no one. and so to translate, these people did things that were, they didn't call anybody, and now they're lecturing republicans about, oh, this is how you should have handled it? spare us the lectures. that's the translation. that's why the obsession, as some people have called it, exists today, because of the lectures they're getting on the ethics of information. >> surely, first off, hillary was investigated for months. about that. >> excuse me, scott, i agree. >> i let you smear her, my friend. let me defend her. she was cleared by the fbi, mr. comey even said, no reasonable prosecutorial charge. so that's been thoroughly investigated. this trump stuff has not been thoroughly investigated. it will be now because of director mueller, but it has not been investigated. and the charge is much, much worse. if true, they subverted the democratic process of picking a
president and tainted mr. trump's election. >> but let me push back on that. i think it's based on something that mary katherine wrote, i think, in the federalist, if i read this correctly, and i'm not a very good reader, so maybe i didn't. the clinton people made the argument, well, there was no legal wrongdoing, but that's not necessarily the same standard that the trump people are being held to. i think the trump people can argue that maybe there's no legal wrongdoing, but like, morally, you know, was it right for hillary clinton to have, you know, destroyed machinery or had people -- >> right, my point is, that story was covered and she paid a political price for it. 600 days in a row we covered hillary's e-mails, which was not a very important story. to tell you the truth. it wasn't. it was overplayed, overhyped, over covered by the media, with rising to the bait of donald trump. the trump/russia story, at the time, a lot of people were saying, oh, that's conspiracy theory. robby mook came on our air and said, i'm told by experts that the russians hacked. people say, oh, he's a conspiracy buff. turned out to be true. now it's the government.
now our country has been attacked and we are not responding. that's what i want to know. >> there is now an active fbi investigation into this. this is not -- there is a real investigation. >> i think the translation is, correct. that is what some people angry about it. and they're angry about it does seem like rules are not evenly applied. and i think a that can be a valid argument and complaint. it doesn't help coming from the president's twitter account all the time. and you have the problem on both sides, which is, yes, doing something that's not technically illegal does not mean that it's ethical and good for the potential leader or leader of the country. and you get that too much from both sides. it happens a lot. and we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for not technically illegal. hillary or trump. >> we'll take a quick break, more with the panel, continue the conversation. we'll dig into jared kushner's role in all of this. jared kushner is the one person in that meeting who got a security clearance and now works in the west wing.
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megan's smile is getting a lot because she uses act® mouthwash. act® strengthens enamel, protects teeth from harmful acids, and helps prevent cavities. go beyond brushing with act®. . before the break were walking about the focus campaign on hillary clinton which some are calling a double standard. >> >> i'm glad scott brought it up. this is a lot of things that
conservators feel i just don't think a lot reflect what happened. the story was broken by the "new york times" and the kly stron 9 campaign is still angry with the "new york times" for how much they covered that issue. you don't see that happening with bright bart or breaking news or whatever. liberals, democrats were extremely critical of hillary clinton. i was very critical of hillary clinton and people fell that even having the server was a mistake let lone the stuff you were talking about. she was held accountable and investigated. the clinton campaign can get anyone on her that complained about her, but the media covered her. i don't think that's a fair comparison. >> i don't hear people today or conservators complaining about a lack of couldn't of clinton. i think everyone acknowledging it was covered she was investigated. most of the republicans i know
acknowledged this meeting is a pr disaster. >> but that is what's being said no one is covering ukraine stories and russia. >> i hear you. most renés understand. not everybody believes laws were broken, it certainly isn't treason, that's ridiculous. we're now reviewing lectures from democrats, some connected to clinton some not. hindsight 2020. everybody may get it right later. mistakes were made in people who are criticizing them today. >> not patriotic samaritan should be involved with -- we were and are under attack by a he or she still foreign power and they seem to be abetting that hostile foreign power.
we should be retaliated massively. if i was a trump supporter i would want to retaliate because it has taken its cricketry. right now the senate has passed pretty good sanctions, the house has bottled them up. the house is bottling it up. the wous is opposing it. why aren't we moving in that direction to punish putin. >> i think what you're say g is right. the truth is i know paul is close to hillary and he's defender her. i think a lot of democrats felt that what hillary did was not normal. it's not normal to set up a private server and do a lot of these things. i don't think a lot of people were arguing that oh, everybody
does this. she was extremely criticized for. >> sander'ss punished her throughout the campaign. when he said we're sick of hearing about your damn e-mails it was dismissive. so, i think we're -- >> also said that knowing -- moderating that he knew we were going to continue asking he got the benefit of saying we don't care about your e-mails. >> exactly right. there's something else that has to be said which is that donald trump jr. i think is the focus of a lot of attention because he released the e-mails, set up the meetings and the one who should he loved it. some of the more cautious people of that meeting, kushner and manafort who said i didn't read till the end of e-mail which is probably not true. these are people who know the laws very well. they know what lines they're not
suppose to cross. they have a lot of answers that we need to hear about what was going on, why and how far it all wen. to that extent this can't be dismissed as, well everybody does this, or it's a naive kid. >> donald trump jr., given that he's now -- this is now part of the investigation, more of his e-mails i assume are going to be looked at by investigators, goes on television last night and which he says contradictory thing, oh know this is never happened before. >> one because he's giving warfaring because he's a child of trump which is perhaps going to prove a weak bs of this white house. two, he's not technically part of the white house so they're letting him do the talking. there's tons of trump junior for good reason but jared kushner was in this. i think you're on something to
this 0-60 idea. many conservatives feel like skantd ls for the obama administration, there were scandals but more responsible couldn't of investigations with a lot of caution of let's wait and see where it takes us. in the trump administration it seems there's a hurry to get to that conclusion. >> thank to everyone in the panel. we'll be right back. cherous for. [ camera shutter clicks ] sure, i've taken discounts to new heights with safe driver and paperless billing. but the prize at the top is worth every last breath. here we go. [ grunts ] got 'em. ahh. wait a minute. whole wheat waffles? [ crying ] why!
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