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tv   New Day  CNN  July 14, 2017 2:57am-4:00am PDT

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it's called opposition research. that's very standard in politics. >> really very unlikely that trump knew nothing about this. >> what we don't want to do is jump to a conclusion. >> we have made a series of document requests to donald trump jr. >> think anyone asked to testify should testify. >> politics doesn't work. ignorance is not a defense under the law. >> the american people deserve better than obamacare. >> the meat of this bill is exactly the same as it was before, and in some ways even worse. >> i promise to repeal obamacare, ton continue obamacare. this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. this is "new day." it is friday, july 14th, 6:00 here in new york. chris is off. john berman joins me. great to have you here in studio.
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>> great to be here. >> another busy news day. >> it is. at the starting line, a spectacular show of force along paris' famed champs d'elysees. president trump and the first lady joining france's president to mark bastille day. 100 years since american troops arrived on french soil to join world war i. even overseas, new questions about russia. what and when did the president know about his son's e-mails and the meeting with the russian lawyer to get dirt on hillary clinton? president trump defending his son saying most people would have taken that meeting. >> the scramble to respond to this controversy now has white house aides exposed to scrutiny by counsel. aides of the president and jared kushner's legal team, they began strategizing in late june about how to manage the disclosure of you'll discovered emails. all this going -- newly discovered emails. all this going on as the health care bill by republicans at least right now is falling shorts of winning the support it needs. two republicans have already said they will not support it.
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mitch mcconnell says he still wants a vote next week. we're covering every angle of this for you. let's begin with cnn's white house correspondent, jeff zeleny, live in paris. good morning, jeff. >> reporter: good morning, john. president trump is indeed witnessing history this morning as he is watching the bastille day parade which this year coincides with the 100th anniversary of u.s. troops arriving here in france. as he's watching helicopters fly overhead and fighter jets, as well, there's still the russian cloud that is looming including new questions this morning about what he knew and when he knew it. new questions about who knew what and when about the meeting between trump campaign associates and a russian lawyer. and the emails that prove donald trump jr. thought he'd be getting dirt on hillary clinton from the kremlin. a source familiar with the process tells cnn that jared kushner and his legal team discovered the emails in mid-june. a person close to kushner says
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they discussed whether or not to immediately go public. that source adding that kushner told his lawyers he planned to sit down with the president to discuss the june, 2016, meeting. an interaction "the new york times" reports took place. all this raising doubt about the president's insistence that he only learned about the emails in the past >> the president never saw the e-mail, didn't see it until it was seen today. >> it was such a nothing, there was nothing to tell. i wouldn't even remember it until you start scouring through the stuff. >> yahoo news saying two members of president trump's legal team were informed about the e-mails three weeks ago. despite this knowledge, the president's son only publicly acknowledged the meeting with the russian lawyer after being approached by "the new york times" last weekend, leaving the white house scrambling to craft a response, and further drawing the president's closest aides into a crisis deepening by the
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day. >> we feel it's very important that we have all the important information so we can ask the right questions. >> the top democrat on the senate intelligence committee tells cnn the panel will request additional documents from both trump junior and kushner. >> it seems strange to me that those meetings were at least conveniently forgotten, at least by mr. kushner. >> and republicans and democrats leading the senate judiciary committee confirmed they will request trump junior's testimony. >> we're sending a letter to request his presence. >> the president appearing to support that idea in a conversation with reporters aboard air force one flying to paris. before issuing this staunch defense of his eldest son. >> as far as my son is concerned, my son is a wonderful young man. most people would have taken that meeting. it's called opposition research. >> reporter: but that simply is not true. republicans and democrats alike, as well as president trump's own nominee to be the next fbi director have said that meeting
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should have raised red flags for those trump campaign officials a year ago. all those questions will be awaiting the president when he flies back to the united states later today. for the next couple hours or so, the president is going to be sitting next to the french president, emmanuel macron watching all this military might go forward. it's certainly a moment the french president tried to impress on president trump about his america first policy, his isolationist policies, a bit of a history lesson as there are u.s. troops marching in this parade along with the french troops. alisyn? >> jeff, very interesting to watch their relationship develop as we watch live. it looks like possibly the end of this parade that they're watching. despite their differences on issues and the rocky start to their relationship weeks ago, french president emmanuel macron and president trump are standing side by side to mark bastille
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day. cnn's alyssa bell is along the parade route in paris. >> reporter: it has been an extraordinary display, not just the military ties of the united states and france, alisyn, but also the history of those ties with that history lesson, the beginning of this parade this year specifically about world war i. you had a sense yesterday with the events planned for donald trump, that was emmanuel macron's plan all along saying, look, you may have been pursuing isolationist policy, maybe raising alarm bells here in europe, but perhaps by reminding you of the importance of these ties and the reason they were drawn and the fact they were drawn in blood a century ago, perhaps donald trump can be brought back into the fold. i've been watching throughout his term and he's been extraordinary, watching the two men continue that extraordinary
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meeting yesterday, chatting throughout, looking as if they were almost friends. i wonder if donald trump will leave here with a sense that there's one european leader with whom he can do business. >> melissa, thank you very much. we see them applauding now, looking happy, beaming, and the music striking up again. >> at one point as emmanuel macron and donald trump grow closer, emmanuel macron is 39 years old, the same age as donald trump jr. >> there are a lot of interesting parallels we'll get to. let's bring in our panel. cnn political analyst david gregory and ron brownstein, congressional reporter for "the washington post," karoun demirjian. david, do you want to just remark on this very interesting
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relationship that continues to develop between president macron and president trump? >> this is a fascinating display that we've been treated to, and an amazing spectacle of this parade. i think that president trump, especially someone who is so new to politician and the presidency is very much figuring out these relationships as he goes along. not unlike other presidents, is striking up relationships based on the chemistry he feels in the course of these set pieces, meetings like this, being put in positions like this. and if he finds a bond, if there is a spark that develops, he's going to run with that. we saw it with the chinese premier, we may be seeing it with the french president. he's played the point well, standing up to mr. trump with
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small gestures and larger gestures. i think this may be a sense that the president has that he has acceptance among a european leader. >> ron brownstein, what did the president know and when did he know it? it's a cliche question. it's really in play right now because of the new reporting from cnn overnight that says a lot of the white house aides might be in jeopardy of being investigated by the special counsel because how this unfolded. michael itzkoff told yahoo news alan garten, chief legal officer of the trump organization were informed about the e-mails in the third week of june after they were discovered by lawyers for kushner. we know because of the reporting from "the new york times" that white house aides were part of the initial very misleading response from donald trump jr., and now they'll have to answer for this, maybe under oath, ron. >> that is why, you can see in
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this just little development, why these investigations are so debilitating for the white house. the permutations, the variations are just infinite. this continues the pattern. if, in fact, the president was aware of this earlier than he said, it's raising to the ultimate level what we have seen throughout. donald trump jr., jared kushner and paul manafort all knew this meeting occurred. they either participated in or were silent as others argued for months including the vice president that there was no contact with anyone from russia. one of the reasons michael flynn had to leave the administration ostensibly is because he mislead the vice president about the nature of his contacts with the russian ambassador. jared kushner also allowed the vice president to go on national tv and say there were no comintacts with the russians. taking this to the level of whether the president was misleading about when he knew about this and participated
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potentially in a statement that was completely misleading about the purpose of this meeting, contradicted by the plain language in the e-mails, as i said, extends a pattern we have seen from the outset, raising it to the highest level possible. >> karoun, another confusing bit of reporting investigators are now looking into is whether or not president trump -- when he knew about the meeting, if he knew about the meeting, and if he was involved in the crafting of the first damage control statement that was the misleading one that was wrong about what the meeting was originally about. it wasn't about adoption. so that was supposedly crafted on the plane back from the visit after the g20, and we don't know whether the president was involved. his lawyer jay sekulow was on our air and basically said the president wasn't involved because he didn't know anything about that. there are other threads in reporting that suggest otherwise. >> right. it also raises the question of why lawyers might have been involved when the president
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himself wasn't involved, when the president, his son and son-in-law have different legal teams at this point. the question basically takes us back a few weeks. it doesn't take us all the way back to last year about who knew what when. if it becomes that, that's a whole other host of questions that we'll have to examine about what level of coordination this rises to or intent to coordinate with russian officials. it does raise the question of who is trying -- what message is trying to be sent, how much obfuscation. there are four different stories as to what actually happened here between, it didn't happen at all, it was a russian adoption meeting to now where it's like, okay, it's exactly what it said it was in the e-mails, but not a big deal because everybody does it. to tell you the truth, we're not fully there because, as the president said in his press conference comments, it's a russian lawyer, not a russian government lawyer. if the president is directing this, that's extremely
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problematic, because this is raising the most hard and fast allegations of intent to coordinate or collude that we've now seen. >> live pictures from paris. it looks like the parade is wrapping up. president emmanuel macron right there, president trump right there. president trump will spend the weekend at his golf course in bedminster here in new jersey. the flight last week from europe very eventful. david gregory, karoun was talking about the response from the white house. we are talking right now about june and july of this year, about when the president knew and what did he do about it, not, as of now, back to last year. misleading the american public, jeffrey toobin and other lawyers will tell you, not in and of itself illegal. you can mislead and lie to "the new york times" all you want. it won't get you thrown in jail. however, it will raise the eyebrows. no question, david, of the
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special kocounsel looking into this. why is the white house so concerned about the timing ofd this? >> so concerned about the timing. why, by the way, with this revelation about the e-mails, we know it contradicts months and months of white house denials about the very substance of this investigation which the president continues to call a pitch hunt and has called a hoax when it is clearly not. so what is the president hiding? what are those aides hiding? they knew about this, they decided not to be forthcoming about it. the president has never come out and had a press conference to answer any and all questions regarding this. they simply don't come clean. and that's why this thing is so suspicious and has been now for so long. look, the president made very clear when he was a candidate that he didn't take any of the prospect of russian interference seriously. now as the leader of the country he still doesn't take it seriously. there is a legal investigation
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going on about potential cooperation with an attempt to interfere. this is fundamentally a leadership question about how seriously the president takes this and what he'll do to prevent it from ever happening again. at the same time we have to remember that while the president embroils himself in his own botched communication strategy, because he takes it over, he doesn't trust his communications people, they turn off the cameras at press briefings, they are not leveling with the american people, other things are not getting done. here is a president who is on the sidelines just hoping there's a health care repeal bill when he campaigned on it being the number one thing he was going to do, and he's really a spectator in this process. it's not leadership and it's not driving an agenda. that's what's got to worry people around him and certainly his supporters. >> ron, what i hear coming out of the white house is this belief that because no information was exchanged, no dirt was handed over,
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reportedly, from this russian lawyer, the white house and the president think, end of story, nothing to see here. they don't think because of the enthusiasm before the meeting expressed by don junior and the receptiveness to the meeting, that that's where the problem lies. >> as i said, these kind of investigations are very difficult on the white house and also very difficult for the media because we are left to debate allegations and charges back and forth without a full understanding of the facts that the special prosecutor is ultimately going to have in their possession. whatever we are saying about what happened at this meeting and potentially other interactions is inevitably subject to change as people are testifying under oath. it's one thing to change your story to "the new york times." but before long there are going to be people testifying under oath, probably in front of multiple venues and even without the possibility that the meeting
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looks different when all the facts are in and other interactions may change our picture of it, there is the threshold issue which the fbi director nominee noted. if you get an e-mail that says this is part of the russian government effort to help your father and you take the meeting and don't tell anybody, that's a distinctive and unusual choice. >> stick around. we've got a lot more to talk about, our eye on paris where the parade on bastille day is wrapping up, a city he slammed repeatedly during the presidential campaign, slammed even now as president. now the president singing its praises. why the sudden change of heart? how much more next.
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i have friends that used to go to paris. they don't go anymore, they say paris isn't paris. >> i was elected to represent the citizens of pittsburgh, not paris. >> what you just missed was president donald trump and
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french leader emmanuel macron, about a 30-secondha second hand >> it was epic. >> what a fascinating trip this has been, one of friendship following that sound bite you just heard from candidate donald trump who disparaged paris really every chance he got. he talked about a friend jim who won't go to paris anymore because he's afraid. the associated press couldn't exactly find jim. >> can i superficially say i don't want to forget the first ladies. both married to quite glamorous, fashionable women. it's just a beautiful picture of the four of them in front of this parisian crowd at bastille day along with their first ladies. it's fun to watch.
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>> president trump noted yesterday france, of course, america's oldest ally. president said some people don't know that. it's part of usual basic american history, lafayette is a name that comes up from time to time when studying the revolutionary war. president trump enamored with the reception he has received from the official french leadership over the last week and, in fact, months, since emmanuel macron was elected president. >> absolutely. you can hear his change of tone. his eyes seem to have been opened to the beauty of paris and magic of paris. he talked about that, so different than the sound bite we just played when he was sceptical about the merits of paris and suggested it had become dangerous. now you see all this panel inge tri. >> here is another handshake, second in less than five minutes. watch it.
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>> nobody is letting go. now they're arm wrestle iing. wait a minute. this has morphed. it's a handshake hug. it's a double handshake. okay. this is the master of handshake. >> i have to say, i would assume both presidents actually enjoy now all the focus on their various handshakes and probably make a joke of it in private given how much everyone has spoken of it. i think you can tell there is a new type of affection there. another one. >> that was a hug. >> i was going to say, one of the things president emmanuel macron knows is that president trump does love pageantry. president trump wanted a more traditional military parade which doesn't happen at american inaugurations.
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emmanuel macron knew that. this is something president trump surely loves. in the dinner yesterday on top of the eiffel tower, very elegant. something that probably appeals to president trump's sensibilities. you can see president trump waving good-bye. >> and applauding paris. >> again, different from the campaign rhetoric. >> let's bring back david gregory, ron brownstein, karoun demirjian. karoun, we won't make you talk about the several handshakes, but what they represent. this is something very different. what we are seeing right now is behavior as president, his posture toward paris, as it will, quite different than what we saw from candidate donald trump. why the change? >> well, he's now president and has to work with these people. macron has made a concerted effort to reach out to donald
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trump despite his make our planet great again criticism when he left the paris climate accords, he's made a point of trying to engage. in a way i think it's a very good thing he's bringing trump to paris for a display like this. these sorts of ostentatious displays are the sort of thing you see in countries that are not part of the west more often. moscow does this sort of thing all the time, the grandeur, military pomp and circumstance. the fact we're getting a taste of this from a western leader who has figured out what appeals to trump and how to, as much as he's taken a strong stance of criticizing him, appeal to his appeal for these things, stature as president of the united states and bringing him for the most special day in france is flattering to his ego as well. that is smart politics right now. >> david gregory, this is -- i see it as such vintage president trump. he can make a 180-degree turn in
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his opinion of something. so, first, he has this kind of hunch about paris because, let's face it, there were tragic and horrible terrorist attacks. he has said that. he gets there and gets a warm reception and sudden is beguiled by france and its people and its leaders. he then loves paris. >> i think this is the kind of transformation that happens when someone moves from being a candidate to being a leader of state that is more understandable. there is a rhetoric about the campaign and talking about terrorism and then it's being the president of the united states and meeting a new leader. i come back to the point i made before. i think for the president who doesn't have an ideological core
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and doesn't really have a core with regard to his foreign policy. for him personal relationships are really what matter. i think if he has a spark of a relationship here with the europeans, he feels is more positive than he's had with german chancellor merkel or even with theresa may, he wants to run with this because he thinks he can achieve something. we've seen this with past presidents. berman and i saw this with president bush and his first encounters with vladimir putin, a sense of personal chemistry, believing at that point they can make something of that. i think in this case there is, no question, an appeal to ego, that he enjoys being part of this moment, something he has not been part of. so what i think it contradicts at the moment is a president who wants to run and even govern as a more nativist president who is going to try to isolate foreign countries on trade and national security matters, now realizing, hey, i've got some new room here as the leader of the free world
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to exercise some will. >> ron? >> macron clearly is positioning himself as the bridge between a conservative u.s. president and a european continent that is deeply skeptical of his america first vision. there's a precedent and analog for this. this is similar to what former british prime minister tony blair positioned himself as the bridge between george w. bush and europe, and that ultimately divided his party and led to him being called bush's poodle when he went to the extent of supporting the war in iraq and really debilitated the labor party. the gap between the fundamental world view of macron and trump puts limits on this relationship even though clearly i think he's being designated as the bridge between this president and a europe that is dubious of many of his views of world affairs. >> many people calling the trump whisperer in europe. >> interesting perspective, panel. thank you for standing by
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a federal judge in hawaii has loosened restrictions on president trump's travel ban. grandparents will be allowed to travel from six mostly muslim nations. derrick watson ruled the white house misinterpreted last month's supreme court decision when it excluded those relatives. no word whether the white house plans to appeal this. >> the senate gop's revised health care bill has no votes to spare. two republican senators are saying they will already vote against it. so can republicans turn the tide? how are they trying to do that today? cnn's suzanne malveaux is live on capitol hill. give us the latest there. >> good morning, alisyn. president trump already engaged in a twitter storm, if you will, four tweets this morning about this issue trying to salvage he's going to be back at his
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desk with pen in hand. republicans have to deliver on this promise. we've heard president trump aboard air force one expressing appreciation for the difficult testify of getting this passed. he said, and i'm quoting, he said it's the only thing more difficult than peace between palestinians and the health care is this narrow road about a quarter of an inch wide, you get a couple here, lost four over here. health care is tough. of course, health care is stuff, trying to bridge conservatives and moderates of his own party. here are some of the highlights to try to make both sides happy. an option for cheaper plans, but fewer benefits, the ted cruz amendment, an odd to conservatives, provision to allow people to use their health savings accounts for their premiums, that is not allowed in the law, $45 billion boosed for opioid addiction treatment. no significant changes to medicaid, a huge blow to moderates and finally no tax
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repeal for the wealthiest americans. so far two definite nos, and they cannot afford to lose an additional republican. otherwise this dies. >> suzanne malveaux on capitol hill. the big question is, will they lose that one additional vote? will the senate be able to get this bill to president trump's desk? we'll speak to our panel coming up next. iness. but who takes care of mom? office depot/office max. this week, get this ream of paper for just one cent after rewards. ♪ taking care of business. does it look like i'm done?yet? shouldn't you be at work? [ mockingly ] "shouldn't you be at work?" todd. hold on. [ engine revs ] arcade game: fist pump! your real bike's all fixed. man, you guys are good! well, we are the number-one motorcycle insurer in the country. -wait. you have a real motorcycle? and real insurance, with 24-hour customer support. arcade game: wipeout! oh! well... i retire as champion. game hog!
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the senate republicans are still haggling over their health care plan. president trump tweeted, republican senators are trying hard to get failed obamacare replacement improved. i will be at my desk pen in hand. republican senators must come through as they have promised. let's discuss with our panel, david gregory, ron brownstein and karoun demirjian. we already know rand paul doesn't like it, susan collins, shelly capito of west virginia has reservations. where is this? >> i think they're still in a
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very difficult place. they're close enough to perhaps pull it across the line because with the president engineering and making demands from the white house, it's a reminder of how much political peril republicans face if they don't come through on this. i think what a lot of more centrist conservatives even are feeling is that this is just an incredibly unpopular step to be taking with how they refashion a repeal of obamacare, that it puts them in a very precarious position and they're not sure about the kind of political backup they'll have if they take this vote and ultimately pass it. they would have reconciling to do with the house version as well. i think that is the state of play at the moment. >> ron brownstein, you noted mitch mcconnell has taken a traditional tact to get this through. he's made concessions to the conservative members of his party hoping and/or assuming that the moderates will fall into place, so-called moderates. there's a huge amount of pressure on some of these
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senators right now. susan collins has already said she's a no vote, even on the motion to proceed with bringing the measure to the floor. there's dean heller of nevada facing a tough race. what will happen with him. rob portman, lisa murkowski of alaska. that's where the pressure is. >> senator mcconnell has made a clear calculation here. he has moved this bill substantially to the right of the original bill to mole mollify the conservatives. he's banking on the mainstream republicans, shelly capito of bf wf, rob portman of ohio, jerry moran, lisa murkowski to buckle in the end. the ted cruz amendment really is a cruise missile aimed at the republican coalition. what it does is essentially allow insurers to segment the insurance market so younger, healthier people can buy cheaper
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plans. the inex-able result of that will be to limit ability of insurance for older pooh 'em with health needs. two-thirds of everybody in the country 45 to 64, the big losers under the cruz amendment are white. most of them are republican voters, 60% of them vote for republicans. you still have in this second version of the bill -- john, this is the real crux of it, it maintains all the severe cuts in medicaid which have become absolutely crucial in responding to the opioid crisis in states like west virginia and ohio. also nevada and colorado would be huge losers in the medicaid population. dean heller and, for that matter, cory gardner would be voting to reduce the medicaid population by almomost half. >> karoun, they say they have a
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solution to that opioid issue that so many people have raised. let's put up what we know to be true about the changes to the bill. option for cheaper plan with fewer benefits. that's what so many people have called for. why does john berman have to pay for maternity benefits when he isn't going to need it? then the hsa payment on premiums, your own spending accounts. here we go. $45 billion allotted for substance abuse, opioid treatment, they think that will fill the gap of what people need, no changes to medicaid from the previous bill. the previous bill had $772 billion cuts to medicaid over the next ten years. no repeal on the obamacare taxes on the wealthy. i think this is what rand paul objects to. karoun, what do you see? >> i think about two weeks ago, ohio governor john kasich said the $45 billion is a nice number, but it's basically a drop in the bucket, a band-aid
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on a gushing wound of the opioid crisis. i think the problem for a lot of republicans is that they have governors at home who won't be convinced by all this at all. that's the case in ohio, those are two moderate republicans looking at this. we haven't heard all that much from the arizona republicans. they're also from states that have issues with opioids and other drug crises and also a population that's not all that young. so you're looking at basically who it is that has to make the decision to vote for this based on the changes. yes, it will make them unpopular in the national gop, but will it make them more unpopular at home to vote yes? that's a very critical decision for anybody who is up in 2018 or frankly even 2020. sometimes what you end up seeing in matters like this that are very politically controversial when there's a lot ot stake, is that you'll see a new people come out, like susan collins, like rand paul. you'll either see droves of
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people saying, okay, i'm going to make this decision except for maybe the people that have already come out and said no, or you'll see at the last minute a bunch of people won't vote for it. it won't be 49 or 48 votes, but more like 45, depending on the these people feel like they can make a safe decision with the local interests and the governors that have taken stances on this versus what the national party and the president want. >> it's complicated. go ahead quickly, david. >> i think also we have had obamacare being implemented in good ways and ways that have negative results. a lot of these lawmakers are talking to experts in the field and finding out where the gaps are. some of this tinkering doesn't solve the problems, what effect it has on the insurance market. there's tinkering going on that makes a lot of lawmakers worried about what the ultimate impact will be, especially when they've seen a positive result of, say, expanding medicaid in terms of populations. >> those advantages and
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disadvantages come up in things like hearings which they're not having to reform this which is interesting. >> panel, thank you very much for all of that. how many ways can you shake someone's hand? we're going to count the ways, because we didn't know that there were there many different types of handshakes -- >> at least two right there. >> wait a second. >> i'm not done. that's the arm wrestle handshake. here comes the double hug handshake. double hold handshake. >> there are seven hands involved with this handshake right now. we'll be right back. my abdominal pain and bloating made daily life a guessing game.
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te tempur pedic. heavy rain moving into new york city lasting until noon today. the rest of the weekend pretty good. the rain down into washington, d.c. could be severe. wind damage in d.c., baltimore, la plata, even toward richmond, virginia, later this afternoon as the rain moves through. a couple more showers in the city later on this afternoon, 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 tonight. other than that, the bigger weather is farther south. a great weekend for a lot of people north of the front which is new york city, philadelphia, boston, rochester over to even parts of maine will be in the 50s and 60s for morning lows. deep south remains stuck in the muggies, john. >> stuck in the muggies, chad myers, thanks so much. president trump's comments about the french president's wife making major noise on social media. this is the moment you have to
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♪ i noticed it as soon as we moved into the new house. a lot of people have vertical blinds. well, if a lot of people jumped off a bridge, would you? you hungry? i'm okay right -- i'm... i'm becoming my, uh, mother.
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it's been hard, but some of the stuff he says is actually pretty helpful. pumpkin, bundling our home and auto insurance is a good deal! like buying in bulk! that's fun, right? progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto. it is already being called, by us mostly, the mother of all handshakes. >> only by us. >> president trump and president macron saying good-bye to each other with this handshake that never stopped and morphed into several different handshakes and things at once. joining us to discuss, molly ball, cnn white house reporter kate bennett -- molly, we were
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looking at this and sort of joking about how the relationship between president trump and emmanuel macron changed. >> it never ends. it's still going on, this handshake. >> this is and ha shake with affection as opposed to the first time they met when they had sort of the fierce handshake face-off. i think we have pictures of that to give you a contrast of what that was like, when they first met. here it is right now. it's going back and forth. we'll find that. molly, the politics of physical interaction, explain. >> well, i would say, first of all, we know macron approaches these handshakes somewhat strategically. he said after the first aggressive handshake that he did it on purpose, he was trying to make a statement, he was trying to sort of speak what he sees as trump's language which is the language of dominance and gain the upper hand literally in this interaction. we don't need body language to tell us that the relationship between trump and macron is going to be awkward. trump all but campaigned for
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macron's opponent in his election, and they embody very different points of view about europe and about globalism. so this seems to be another interaction where macron, who seems to be the one who is not letting go, is sending some kind of message, and the message he sent with this whole trip has been that he wants to have a relationship of openness with the united states, but he's willing to be aggressive in projecting his point of view. >> kate, not only is he shaking macron's hand there, also simultaneously hugging and kissing his wife. not easy to do. as john said, he thought there were seven hands involved in that handshake, but there really only can be six. in any event, what do you see in all this body language? >> it was handsy. i think at the end of the day, macron had a goal, and that goal was to sort of woo president trump and build this friendship and establish it.
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he did so with lots of pomp and circumstance, an arrival ceremony and today's parade, and dinner last night in the eiffel tower, all the bells and whistles that maybe resonate with president trump. in that sense, this very friendly good-bye where president trump doesn't want to let go and they're doing the sort of bro shake. that very much says it went beyond sort of a professional relationship, where this weekend did more to solidify a friendship. and they're buddies now. i think that's what this closeness and all those hands maybe demonstrated as well. >> they're buddies that talk about each other's wives apparently. there was that interaction which has blown up on social media where president trump greets president macron's wife and says the following. let's play it. >> kate, i just want to speak with you for one second.
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i know you often focus on sort of the elegant and the fashion of all of this and the first ladies. what do you think about how the first ladies presented themselves and president trump's response to france's first lady. >> this effusive compliment is not something new to president trump. we saw it with him saying the beautiful irish press. he feels it's a strong compliment. in the beginning melania pauts her hand on mrs. macron's back. after the comment about her physical appearance, macron's wife sort of clings to melania and off they go. there was a moment of awkwardness. but i think at that point the two couples know each other well enough to understand that the observation made by the president about ms. macron was
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perhaps maybe a gast to some people, but also in his mind a compliment, a high compliment. >> molly, president macron, just one of the 39-year-olds president trump focused on in the last 24 hours. the other being his son, donald trump jr., he defended saying anyone would have taken the meeting. he called his son a wonderful young man. you've written a fascinating profile of donald trump jr. in "the atlantic." what do you make of the way his father has talked about him and his role really for the white house and the family? >> well, that was, first of all, a very artful segue, the 39-year-old thing. i want to commend you on that. i've spent quite a bit of time with don junior, wrote a profile about him last year and again this week. he is clearly an adult in his own right. he's co-hosted "the apprentice," done a lot of hotel deals for the company. this is i think true in the way
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that donald trump sees his children. he still sees them as kids, if not just offshoots of his own personality. his company has always been a family affair. his campaign was a family affair. his inner circle, his brain trust has always been his oldest three children. don is the oldest. while he had sort of a wild period as a kid, he's very much come back into the fold and become a mini me of trump. it's very clear he was given adult responsibility and had adult level input particularly in the campaign which is what this controversy is about. >> molly, given that now he accepted this meeting and he was enthusiastic about this meeting with this russian lawyer, is your angle that for a long time he was the family troublemaker and has kind of tried to reinvent himself? >> yeah. well, as a kid he was the troublemakerment after college he sort of went off and found himself and bar tended in
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colorado. he's not exactly like his dad. he's known for being an outdoorsman, loves to hunt and fish and camp whereas donald trump i don't think has any interest in really setting foot outside if he doesn't have to. he gets that from his mother's side of the family. his mother, ivana trump is from the former czechoslovakia. don junior is actually fluent in the czech language. he is a chip off the old block. more than any other sub blings, he's a it fooer, he likes being in public, in politics. he's out there defending his dad on twitter and television in a much less scripted way than ivanka or eric or certainly jared who is very powerful, we know, but who you never see. he's a risk-taker. e likes to go out there and fight. and that may have taken him too far in this case. >> molly, kate, thanks very much. joining tonight for

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