tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 18, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
operates as a politician. the idea for the wall didn't come from donald trump, it came from sam lundqvist berg and roger stone two long-time advisors to trump who back in 2013, 2014 wanted to keep trump focused on the issue of immigration because they thought it was a powerful one. but they knew that trump's attention always wandered. and so they came up with this idea of the wall just as a device to keep trump focused on the issue of immigration. >> to remind him to speak of that. >> to remind him to speak. if you can plant that seed in his mind he can riff on it. at first trump didn't seem excited. he wound up going to iowa giving a speech. he tried it out, got a great response from the crowd, and did what trump does best. he started riffing on it. said, i'm going to build a wall and nobody builds like trump. i'm going to build a wall in mexico is going to pay foyer for it. >> that was a riff. >> that was what trump does so well. he senses what it is that works with his audience and he develops it further and further and further. by the end of the campaign, it was like a leonard skin erred
concert where trump's fans would show up and chant, "build the wall" until he did the bit. >> fashion nating book. josh, thanks so much. >> thanks so much. >> we're talking this hour conversation of consequence undisclosed until now. vladimir putin and the president of the united states had a second meeting at the g20 summit we're learning, just the two of them and the russian president's interpreter, no official record of the meeting, no american interpreter was there to make sure the president wasn't being somehow misled. david gergen, meetings this close going back decades, this was not normal. the president by the way, tweeted about this minutes ago. quote, fake news story of secret dinner with putin is sick. all g20 leaders and spouses were invited by the chancellor of germany. press knew, scla make mark. cnn justice court pamela brown has all the late details, joins us now. that's not the story, pamela. >> reporter: right, it seems the president may have a misunderstanding of what is now being reported. today so what the press has just recently learned is that president trump and his russian
counterpart vladimir putin spoke for a second time on july 7th and a previously undisclosed discussion at the end of that dinner during the g20 summit. so we knew the actual dinner was going on, but apparently this is a conversation after the dinner and a senior white house official told cnn that this discussion was nearly an hour and only included president trump, putin and a russian translator. so, president trump was alone. now, the white house is confirming this meeting today only after being pressed by reporters and it said in a statement that this conversation took place in full view of other world leaders and their spouses at this dinner hosted by german chancellor angela merkel. anderson, this discussion came after that scheduled two-hour long bilateral meeting earlier that day that was widely covered. the white house today seeking to downplay the significance of the discussion, calling it perfectly normal. a u.s. president often hold private and improve two discussions with other world
leaders. however when you look at the context, lack of immediate disclosure from the administration as well as trump's own posture in regard to russia weighing significant questions. also several foreign policy experts we've heard from including david gergen as you mention, saying meeting with a foreign adversary like this for this amount of time without anyone else on the u.s. side when it's just the president alone, they say that is not typical normal practice. >> you have also got new information about donald trump, jr.'s meeting from june 2016 at trump tower. >> yeah, that's right. we've learned the identity of the eighth person in trump tower as ike. he goes all the way back to 1989 with the russian oligarch and business associate of donald trump. he was an employee of the family. he was born in the soviet union, studied in moscow. is now a u.s. citizen. he actually appeared, take a look at this video, this is exclusively obtained by cnn. he's standing there in the background highlighted. standing right behind donald
trump to the left there, this is in vegas in 2013. and then of course a few years later he was at that meeting along with the other family, publicist rob goldstone who as you know had promised don junior incriminating information on hillary clinton before the meeting in that e-mail exchange. now, his attorney scott says the client attended that meeting thinking he would be needed as a translator. he says he has never had any involvement with the russian government. he also says special counsel prosecutors have already reached out to his client seeking information and he says his client is fully cooperating, anderson. >> all right, pam brown, thanks. the panel, jeffrey tubin, does this seem normal to you -- the white house goes into great detail about -- and goes into detail that there was a two-hour meeting between vladimir putin and makes a big deal of that fact, to not disclose this one-hour meeting? >> if it's a one-hour meeting, it is a big deal. that's a long time to talk.
and remember, right after that meeting the president tweeted he had agreed with putin to do a joint cyber security operation, which was i think everyone agreed one of the most ridiculous ideas anyone could come up with. and the president immediately backed off it after marco rubio and others denounced it. but perhaps that goofy idea is something that came up in this dinner, but we'll probably never know because the only american there was the president. >> if this reporting -- why not disclose this meeting if it was an hour-long meeting? >> why not disclose it, but the white house believes when you meet with vladimir putin in front of a bunch of other people they're not going to find off about it. it's not like a secret meeting. he spoke at the end of the dinner. "the new york times" reported someone said it looked like they were off on their own and not engaging with other leaders. it's not like they were off
secretly. he was sitting next to me london i can't. the president went over to talk to putin according to reports and engaged in a conversation that went on an hour. oh, by the way, this happened, this conversation. it is extreme to say this was a conspiracy, the president talked to putin seated next to his wife. it sort of happens when you're the president of the united states. >> actually it does n't. actually when you're president of the united states you protect the presidency. and you don't meet with somebody who is responsible for an attack on america without laying some kind of ground rules for how you're going to respond to that and say, well, i asked him about it and he denied it and so what are you going to do, get into a fist fight? now this white house, which has a policy of basically not briefing the american people and keeping them informed and having briefings ridiculously that are off camera to cut out entire way people get their news and information, which is on video and on -- via television, now you're going to go off and have a separate meeting. we should know. the united states has been
compromised by vladimir putin. this president appears to be compromised by vladimir putin. if nothing else, thought that he was not vulnerable and now he's having secret meetings. i would like to know what was said and to what extent this president pushed putin on the fact he tried to hack our election. >> also, no u.s. interpreter. >> no u.s. -- how many secret meetings do we have to learn about before we understand it's not just that the meeting is not normal, the presidency is not normal. no facet of this presidency is normal. and the idea that we should have to have drips and drabs of finding out about four people at a meeting now there's six now there's eight people at a meeting. we have to pull teeth to get the truth out of these people. something is wrong. if he was -- you know, if it was a positive interaction where he was furthering the u.s. interests and as much as he talked about his two-hour meeting with the american public, he would have, i believe, brought up the fact that he continued to press putin
on whatever issues they were talking about in the one-hour meeting. but he didn't do that. he didn't say anything about it. he kept talking about, you know, when he was tweeting, the next day -- in the two days that followed the meeting that he had, the two-hour meeting he had, he talked about what he had talked about, he furthered the u.s. interests, he said nothing about this other meeting. there's a problem here. there is a perception problem and there may be an actual problem, but we don't know. but 25 years of journalism experience for me, my antenna are on fire. i don't know what it is. i don't know what the extent of it is, but something is not right when people try to hide something, it generally means they have something to hide. >> how is he trying to hide it if he had the meeting wither other people are seeing it? >> we do not know -- we do not know, not one thing that was said during that meeting. and we'll never know. we'll never know. >> when you cover the white house, you brief reporters who cover the white house on what
the president does. he doesn't go off and do things in the people's name -- i don't know how you did stuff at the rnc. but when you cover the president of the united states, that's what you do. charles is exactly right. this is not normal. it's not appropriate. and it's bad u.s. policy. you can't defend this. >> and the other world leaders that were there were reportedly surprised and shocked when they saw the two of them together, all of the photos in the past we've seen with president obama and vladimir putin with president bush and vladimir putin, you always saw somebody from the u.s. delegation in all of the photos whether they were formal or informal. and don't forget, this meeting took place when there was already controversy brewing over what lavrov said and what tillerson said. lavrov said that president trump had accepted vladimir putin's denial of interfering with our elections whereas tillerson said, no, we just brought it up and we chose to move on to other subjects. >> do you think there should have been, you know, someone there from i mean a u.s. interpreter or someone who is well briefed on all the issues
to at least kind of help the president out? >> sure, i think if you're going to have a casual meeting and it's going to turn into something an hour long, you probably should grab somebody. i think there are so many other things. david's response started the cover white house briefings, the investigation and this is what happens. we have a conversation that donald trump had with vladimir putin and now the pile on begins. so, the coverage -- >> it's not a pile on. >> sure. >> those things are all related. if you don't share with the american people what you do in the people's names -- you have to brief the american people when you're the president of the united states. this president doesn't know foreign policy. he's uninformed. he's demonstrated that -- >> another pile on. now we're getting into what he does on policy. you can see how people who are watching the president watch this kind of coverage -- >> disingenuous. >> it's all related which is disclosure -- >> you're making my case for me, david. you're making my case for me. people that are watching this and they're trying to learn about what actually happened at the meeting and they see people
jumping to conclusions -- >> right, about being transparent. >> going so far as to pile on the criticism of the president, you lose credible with people when you want to talk about the meeting when you get that far down the road. >> i think the problem is depending on who you are and how you see donald trump, you see the situation very differently. i think for people if this was president obama doing this, they would feel more comfortable with it because for people who like president obama, they trusted his judgment, they trusted the fact that he was looking out for american interests. and i think there are a lot of people that are concerned that president trump has a very unusual relationship with vladimir putin, to put it nicely. so, i think that's why some people might be suspicious about this and he hasn't been completely transparent. but on the other side i think you're right, there are people who look at this and they trust president trump. they say he's allowed to go and have meetings -- >> of course he's allowed. i don't think it's just, you know, people like obama or don't like trump. it's that there are certain rules and customs that american presidents have operated by for many years, in many respects. some of them i do think are
related. a televised white house briefing, describing when a president meets with a foreign head of state. meeting with a foreign head of state with an american interpreter as well as a russian interpreter -- >> i totally get your point, mike. the white house made a big deal the fact that president spent two hours with vladimir putin. if that was important to them to show that, like, they had a substantive meeting, you would make the argument that an extra hour would actually further that idea. it wasn't just a two-hour meeting. we had another hour long meeting. it seems like by not at least reporting this publicly that whether or not they're trying to hide or they made a mistake or incompetence or whatever it is, seems odd. >> i don't disagree with you. they probably should have added this. they should have talked about this is what happened. they should have valued something that sounds like it started off as a personal conversation that turned into a larger conversation. but my point is, you know, i believe in a strong press.
i believe that we have to have credibility in the media to cover the things that matter. if every single time something like this happens, the dial gets turned to 11, a litany of things get rolled in, now it's part of the russia investigation. >> this is vladimir putin. he's under investigation. >> i'm trying to do you a favor and tell you how to talk to a huge group of americans. pay attention to the things that matter, the other things we're going to talk about, but let's not blow it up. >> i appreciate your advice on how to talk to the audience. but i will tell you this is not just some any leader. i think you understand the president and people including his son and senior advisors are under investigation for welcoming cooperation with the russians during the campaign. so, at the very least you should be smart enough to disclose. i think you'd agree with that. >> i actually agree with you. if everything is a crisis, if everything is oh, my god look what he did this time, after a certain point it's like the boy that cried wolf. >> the biggest meeting was o.j.
simpson. he's potentially getting out of jail in 48 hours. i'm always glad to see -- >> we're going to take a break. >> i read the book on this. [ laughter ] >> in which a very young jeffrey tubin was -- we're going to dig deeper in this. the tower meeting, newly identified eighth person in the room, all that. what are all these different topped & loaded meals? it's an american favorite on top of an american favorite, alice. it's like labor day weekend on top of the fourth of july. hotdogs. get your favorites on top of your favorites. only at applebee's. get your favorites on ti enjoy the freshers. things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you
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talking about the latest russia revelation, the second meeting between trump and putin. the eighth person in the room in the meeting between donald trump, jr. and paul manafort. i spoke with richard blumenthal who sits on the senate judiciary committee investigating aspects of the russia story and just got the green light to hear from donald trump, jr. and jared kushner. >> this eighth individual who represented a family with potential financial or other ties to the russians is part of this pattern of concealment. beginning in june, but going through even the period before and after the election and the inauguration. >> back now with the panel. mike, one of the things trey gowdy i think said last week, he's a supporter of the president, anybody in the white house who has had a meeting should just tell the special prosecutor and just get it -- special counsel mueller, just
get it out of the way. it does seem like this is such a cliche to talk about the drip drip drip, but it doesn't help the white house, does it? >> no, i agree with that. and i think they're going through the process of trying to figure this out. but people forget about things that they did. claire mccaskill forgot she met with the russian ambassador, so did nancy pelosi. they're trying to gather this information. i think the bigger context of what was going on, did the trump campaign collude and all that sort of thing. i wasn't on the trump campaign but i had a front row seat. they had a difficult time colluding with the rnc. this was a campaign that doesn't look like other campaigns because the candidate was the communications director, the campaign manager, the campaign won because donald trump had a message and a vision and he got it to the american people and he didn't have a traditional campaign structure underneath him. i don't think that campaign colluded if they wanted to. >> to your point i don't agree with that. that's the point i find so dangerous. i have no idea whether anybody committed a crime and i'm not
asserting such what concerns me is the arrogance and uninformed naivete to think they could be compromised. you had two previous administrations that were somehow baloxed up by vladimir putin. if donald trump thinks he can waltz right in and think -- >> who is responsible, if he's a candidate and there is something going on and the obama administration is responsible for who is coming into the country, who is taking meetings with people -- the campaign should have vetted people, kept better records. >> even now, even having -- whatever the substance of this meeting, i would love to believe they had a separate meeting where he talked about, you know, read him the riot act of all the things the united states was going to do if they continued meddling. i can't believe that's the case. he keeps putting himself and they put themselves in a position to be compromised in a way that i think was dangerous. and he's so concerned, the president is, with this sense that he will be seen as illegitimate that he doesn't do the hard work of answering all questions about this. >> with the trump tower meeting, every former intelligence person
we've had on the broadcast has said this raises all sorts of questions. i mean, it sort of is -- looks like a classic espionage operation. again, we don't know the principals all deny any contact with the government. even if a meeting, questionable meeting isn't reported, that should raise red flags because then the russians know something that the u.s. side doesn't know. [ laughter ] >> right? just putting it out there. >> can i raise one thing that hasn't gotten talked about a lot about this russia meeting, there was a document that was turned over by one of the russian people there. donald trump, jr. said the meeting was useless, but there was a document that was turned over. where is it? who saw it? what became of it? what does it say? that certainly -- >> it was -- >> it was one of the russians or
the russian-american lobbyist said -- >> implicating bill and his ties to the dnc. but you go back to the credibility problem that this administration has and you have a president who called his son transparent. the few words that he used to describe him in his first statement following the news about this meeting is my son is very transparent. drip, drip, drip every single day we hear about another person who met -- undisclosed person who was in this meeting. none of these people were adoption agency officials. it's a ruse to say this was a meeting about adoptions just like it's a ruse for president trump to be tweet building this dinner saying this was a dinner and everyone knew about it. no, this wasn't about the dinner. >> up next, going to shift gears. president trump is shifting blame to the democrats for the failure of the republican senate plan and what his plan is now. d but they're different. it's nice to remove artificial ingredients. kind never had to. we choose real ingredients like almonds, peanuts and a drizzle of dark chocolate. give kind a try. ♪
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his disappointment on health care earlier today. what are you hearing from the white house tonight? >> reporter: that's right, it was a defeat that took the white house by surprise. there were certainly staffers in the white house were feeling dejected by it and president trump was pretty forthcoming about the fact that this is not the outcome that he was looking for. here's what he said today. >> i don't think -- no, i'm certainly disappointed for seven years i've been hearing repeal and replace from congress, and i've been hearing it loud and strong. and then when we finally get a chance to repeal and replace, they don't take advantage of it. so, that's disappointing. so, i'm very -- i would say i'm disappointed in what took place. it will go on and we'll win. >> reporter: now, on top of things he's disappointed, it's worth noting, president trump also said this is not on me in terms of the failure of this health care bill. we're just going to stand by and let obamacare collapse. that was his message today, anderson. >> the white house invited all republican senators to lunch tomorrow. is this the agenda or do we
know? >> reporter: well, it will be interesting to see what comes out of this meeting. it's also worth noting, anderson, like you said, it's republican senators. earlier today we saw sara huckabee sanders go to the podium and say, hey, we're willing to move forward on this on a bipartisan basis. we want democrats to come to the table. the reality is the white house has not tried to engage democrats ton this. they still tried to move forward on a repeal plan, which is something they know democrats are not ever going to show up and work with them on. so, i think everyone is sort of wondering what the next step is on this as the senate realizes there aren't the votes there to move forward with the straight repeal, there weren't votes for the repeal and replace plan. everyone is going back to the drawing board to say what can we do about this thing we have been campaigning on seven years. >> sara murray, thanks very much. john kasich has been a strong critic of efforts to cut medicaid benefits. i spoke to him earlier today before i could find my glasses. >> governor kasich, when you hear the president say as he did today his plan is to, quote, let
obamacare fail, is that an option? >> no, i really don't think it is. and i'm not sure that's what he really means. i've always believed that he's not hung up on some ideological fix on this. that's my view. if they were able to give him something that's stabilized the insurance markets, began to deal with the problems of rising halth care costs, i think he'd sign it. anderson, i mean, what the focus has to be and it's something i suggested, i don't know, four, five, six months ago, the focus ought to be on stabling those insurance markets on the exchange so that people can get health insurance. and then we need to move beyond that and think about what insurance is all about. what is the risk we're trying to cover? what are the responsibilities of people aside from those risks that we cover on insurance? and then i also think, anderson, that we need to look at all these entitlement programs. medicaid, medicare, social security, and we ought to put them on a road map to stability. they ought to be reformed.
and that would include everything that we talk about on medicaid, it has to be done with both parties or you'll never get it done. >> the president also said today, i'm not going to own it, i can tell you the republicans are not going to own it. i mean, to you does it sound -- it seems like a lot of folks are still trying to blame one or another side. republicans blaming democrats, democrats blaming republicans. >> i heard schumer say these are the conditions for us to be able to do something. hey, we have a lot of people who are in need of continuing health care. we need people to be treated. we need them to get primary care. we don't need to put them in the emergency room. we don't want them to live paycheck to paycheck worrying about the fact that if they don't have health care they could be bankrupted. and these are people who play by the rules. so, i think it is possible -- i don't think, i know it's possible to get a bipartisan group of senators to say, let's first stabilize the insurance markets. let's make sure that people can get the kind of coverage they need to have a healthier america.
>> but there's been so much talk of just letting -- i mean, the republicans have been saying, look, that obamacare is collapsing and to just let it collapse. mitch mcconnell, the majority leader, said today he wants to hold a repeal only vote in the near future. and as you know, republican senator shelley moore said she didn't come to washington to hurt people. would a repeal without replacement hurt people? >> no, repeal is not acceptable. of course you'd have lots of people that would lose health insurance. i don't think it would be good for the country. i don't think it would be good for the party. i don't think it would be good for anybody who is down there in congress. >> you talk to a lot of focus on capitol hill, obviously a lot of governors. do you think there are enough democrats and republicans willing to work with each other in a bipartisan way? >> i do, i do. sometimes, though, they want to ask permission from their leadership, like i need to ask. like, you know, i need to have a hall pass. do i have to ask the teacher? that's a frustrating thing for me. you know, when i was in the congress, i was offering budgets against a republican president
of the united states because i didn't think he was saving enough money. i became the chairman of the budget committee. we balanced the budget. we did it on a bipartisan basis. this is not easy, but, you know, lead when you're there because at the end every politician has a million plaques on the wall. you know what you do with those plaques? no one cares. do something that's going to improve america, not to worry about the party and all this other stuff. health care is so important to every american and that's why they need to have it. >> governor john kasich, thanks for being with us. >> okay, thanks anderson. >> back with our panel. republican strategist doug high. the notion of repealing without replacing, is it, a, even if it's possible, is it going to hurt the republican party if they do that? >> i think it will. i mean, you know, there's no republican that wants to be in the position where they're going to be blamed for people being thrown off coverage. i mean, the problem is this is an idea logical approach that
many conservatives never would have signed on for in the first place. it was unfortunate that obama rammed this through on a party line vote, but here we are. and now you have governor kasich, you have others. it's very difficult to take an entitlement away once it's been given. that's the reality. the real challenge now for the president, i agree with what the governor said. the is not in a good position being very idea logical on this position. to broker some compromise early on, republicans like i was saying before, it's republicans who can't agree on health care when it comes to government being involved. so, the challenge for the administration is how do they now work and use their power to try to revive the uncertainty that's in the exchanges in the markets. >> you're shaking your head. >> obama didn't ram anything through on a party line vote. let's go through historical facts. president obama actually tried to get republicans in the mix. the basis of obamacare are exchanges. this was a heritage foundation idea. so, he really did try to get republicans on board.
republicans refused to participate in any way to decide as we all know, they were going to oppose everything that he did. here we are now, and we have president trump complaining about the democrats being obstructionist when the democrats were more than willing to work with republicans. now there is no reason that when the core of obamacare are exchanges, which again, were developed by the heritage foundation, there is no reason that republicans cannot come and work with this and find something -- >> his slogan was resist. wants to work with president trump and i think -- actually, one of the worst nightmares for the democrats would be if you went to regular order, put this through the committees and started having amendments put on the floor and started looking at the democrats, will you work with us, they're going to get a huge problem from their bernie single winger -- >> i'm not saying the democrats aren't interested in obamacare. you can sit there with a straight face after what the republicans did. it is incredible to listen to people, republicans complain
about obstructionism after what we watched, the republicans were in congress who made it their literally got together and had a meeting and said we will oppose every single thing that president obama does. i'm not even making a partisan point. i'm really trying to stick to historical facts here and you're sitting there complaining about obstruction. >> historical facts, democrats brag about the medicare act. they want to say president trump is saying i'm not going to be to blame if obamacare fails. they passed it, they own it. i think the president is negotiating, just like if you had a neighborhood and it was going down, think about real estate and president trump's line. the value of the buildings is going down. i say i want to buy one. you say no. okay, i'm going to wait until they crater. the pressure on congress for how bad obamacare is clearly isn't enough for them to get their act together. the president is sitting back and saying, let's -- wait until the premium increases come out in october. he may revisit the entire thing again. >> he cannot say, i won't own
it. you own it the moment you were inaugurated. you are the president now. we have to take a moment and realize how incredible, like staggering it is for him to say, i'm just going to let it collapse. i mean -- one second. i didn't interrupt you. i'm going to finish this point. and i want to stop talking about in policy terms and talk about it in people terms. collapse, lose coverage. those are not euphemisms, but they are antiseptic terms. what is going to happen when people lose coverage, people who are healthy get sick, people who are sicker die. who is sick get sicker and die. that is what happens. when people do not have access to care, do not -- cannot afford the care, cannot get in to see a doctor, use up their lifetime limits. this is what happens. this is what happens. people die. and for the president of the united states to simply say, this is a political argument for me, i do not like obamacare
partly because i don't like obama is what he's saying. a lot of people who voted for him and who don't. and i will allow this thing to collapse and allow it to take down the lives of the people who are depending on it to death. >> let me ask you a question. protesters that showed up in march and april in congressional offices, those people think obamacare is great. how is it collapsing? democrat after democrat supported obamacare. they voted to repeal it. democrats voted to keep it. >> most democrats will say things need to be corrected. >> let's see them come to the white house and say let's sit down -- >> they haven't been invited. >> look, democrats, democrats do have a lot of tension from the bernie sanders wing about now moving to single payer. there are things that need to be fixed, charles, to your point. if we're talking about people, let's talk about how obamacare is being implemented. let's talk about what works. let's talk about what doesn't
work. un unfortunately, i thought president trump would be more pragmatic if it weren't such disagreement among conservatives. part of what is hurting implementation of the obamacare plan of the affordable care act is trump and other republicans have said, look, this is going to crater. we're going to let it collapse. that is not a way to sure up the market. the head of cms, you have tom price saying it's failing every day. now they're under -- >> let's talk about it in honest terms, though. the tension here is between rising costs for some people and the saving of other people's lives. that is the entire tension. on the campaign trail, people said, i understand that your premiums have gone up, and i will do something about that. basically i will cut off access to other people so that i can bring your premiums down. that meant i will literally let people die in order for you to be more comfortable and be able to make this payment. what we have to say is that if
that is the tension, we cannot allow either of those two things happen. we cannot keep having this conversation as if those two things are disconnected. those things are absolutely connected and we have to talk on those terms, that we can fix, but we cannot fix to the extent that we allow people to lose coverage, and therefore expose people to the possibility that they will get incredibly sick and that -- >> i want you to respond to that. we'll take a quick break and talk about health care when we come back including how the white house is trying to sway republicans before it's too late. tes. only at applebee's. tes. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest prices. so if you're anything like me...
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news on health care. president trump has invited all gop senators for lunch at the white house tomorrow to discuss the issue presumably lobby for votes. we'll talk more about where the white house goes next on this and the president's remarks today. >> we're not going to own it. i'm not going to own it. i can tell you the republicans are not going to own it. we'll let obamacare fail and then the democrats are going to come to us. >> doug, if a repeal without a replace doesn't go anywhere, what is the next step? >> we don't know if there are next steps. that's the reality here. that is why i think it is incumbent on the president in some fashion to own this. were he in part -- >> you want him to own this? >> yes. we haven't seen him own it yet. you look at what happened, we struggled with obamacare for years. david covered it in 2014 when we couldn't even put a white paper together. now we're struggling to pass votes. we didn't have the president and the white house fully engaged on this, engaging the business community, engaging conservative groups. that left a vacuum. we had cbo stories that were
bad, process stories that were bad. without the president leading the charge and owning this we're not going to see anything change. he's the only dynamic new on this. >> i'm with charles on this. he has a responsibility now as the federal government does to make the system work. the federal government pays a huge role in this. not only suring up the markets, but delivering federal subsidies, making sure that it works. you can't as the president of the united states say look, i don't own this. look, you are the president of the united states. you're the leader of the republican party. you tried to get involved and you pulled back, then you were -- guess what, it didn't work. you do own it. >> mike? >> sara huckabee sanders said this isn't over yet. he's negotiating. he's saying i'm prepared to go into 2018 and have a fight on health care. i'm prepared to say the democrats are going to own this. they wrote this law. they defended, they said it was great. now they're getting mad at me that it's collapsing and people could die from the bill that they wrote. okay, let's go to the people and have a conversation about this. the single payer bill which is the bernie sanders government-run health care all the way has the most co-sponsors
it's ever had. i think it's dropped every congress, has the most co-sponsors it's ever had. there was a single payer law introduced in california that literally would have doubled the entire california budget. even the liberals in the california legislature said that's too much money to spend. so, there is a health care fight where the republicans are looking at what the democrats are in disarray on this and they think we've got -- it has president gotten ripe yet. we can get to a point of negotiating. >> i can't let this pass. >> enough leverage -- >> you just said the democrats are now saying they're upset because the bill they wrote is going to make people die. you said -- no, that is not -- >> people are going to die. >> let me tell you what i said because that is not in any way what i said. there are 30 million more people that had insurance now than had it before the aca. that means that fewer people have had to make the incredible choice about whether or not they were going to buy groceries or buy medicine. that means that fewer people were running into lifetime
limits with a child that was born, with -- i let you talk. i'm going to talk now. >> okay. >> they are now not having to run up against lifetime with a child. child did nothing wrong, didn't make bad choices. they were born with a problem. they are running out of a lifetime limit in the first year. those people have to make incredible choices. the choices they make still do not save their lives. there were more people caught up in that before the aca, 30 million more people caught up in that. before the aca than there are now. i am not in any way saying what you are accusing me of saying which is that the democrats wrote a bill that made -- it actually prevented more people from dying. >> governor kasich was saying he actually believes there is a possibility of the bipartisan ship here. is that a fantasy? >> not when the president is threatening to stop funding cost sharing subsidies, which by the way, expire this thursday for next month. that would be about $10 billion and could see premiums go up
some 20%. the throw a lot of people off insurance. when you talk about negotiating, the guy behind the art of the deal, that's not how you go into a negotiation by threatening. >> the counter argument is you have chuck schumer who says the door is open, but it's got to be this, this and this. to kasich's point. >> once the president can settle within his own party then he can talk to chuck schumer. his biggest headache is what is going on internally with his own party. >> that's the point. left to his own devices, president trump could get with chuck sum schumer. one of the problems trump had all along is he wanted to keep primary aspects of obamacare, including keeping younger people on their parents plan et cetera. he is more of a big government guy on health care conservatives or not. so, look, to kiersten's earlier point, you may not have liked me saying they rammed it through. obama was passed on a party line vote. that is always dangerous. >> whose fault is that? >> that's not the reality. >> what do you mean it doesn't
matter? >> at the time chris dodd said it was a huge mistake to pass it with only democrats. it has i think ceded part of the public lack of support for obama which has now grown over time. the real problem is now, it is in place and i think democrats are getting treated like the alamo. >> final thought. >> republicans are in a dangerous place here. we had four elections in a row where we said we are going to do this. we own everything. if we don't do t go into red states, purple states. they haven't seen a lot happening they're proud of. if we can't get rid of obamacare folks are going to stay home. >> up next, chief strategist steve bannon, the book the devil's bargain. we'll be right back. is not always easy. it's a long-distance run. and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for nearly 10 years. humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms.
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. new book reveals never before told details about the political partnership president and chief strategist. steve bannon, donald trump the presidency written by joshua green. it's fast nationing with a lot of stories from the company trail, including how the talk of a border wall began. here's what joshua green told me earlier today. >> the idea from the wall didn't come from donald it came from two advisers to trump who back in 2013/2014 wanted to keep trump focused on the issue of immigration because they thought it was a powerful one. they knew trump's attention wondered. they came up with this idea of the wall, it's just a device to keep trump focused on immigration. >> two we mind the speakers -- >> to remind the speaking of it.
at first trump didn't seem excited. he wound up going to iowa did a speech on it and planned out and the crowd loved it. >> back now with the panel. based on his reporting if that's how this started, does it in any way undercut the idea of the wall? >> i mean i think steve bannon was sort of looking for a vessel for his ideas. if you look back, sara paylen was somebody he discoverstumble and discovered. and michelle balkman and he stumbled upon donald trump and it seems like they made the agreement on trade which is the thing he's been consistent about, donald trump. i know a lot of people push back the idea of him being a puppet
master and i think he is of donald trump. i think he's the god master of the things behind donald trump. >> so you're saying ideally demy god? >> there's no puppet mastering with donald trump. he makes the decisions and some people criticize him for having the essential doing everything. the president is in charge but he found someone in steve bannon that he agree with. someone they're heading did you know the same path so they're working together. steve bannon is one of the few people that doesn't need anything from the president. >> exactly the same when he was running breitbart and now that he's -- >> but he has been successful, he has a group of people listening to him, sort of his group of conservators right. he bring that to the table and that's the relationship they have. it's no regard to any
president -- >> no you're right because of -- >> it is a mini army and bannon was able to grow this after andrew bright bart's death. it's part of why we saw trump so successful with red hats and walls that everybody scoffed ate that v got behind. >> are we not going to talk about the fact of what that breitbart camp is. we're not going to bring that part up. anyway. am i the only person that looked at that interview and thought this is hilarious. the only way to get this man to focus is give him a four-letter word. this is the problem he's having with every part of his agenda which he doesn't understand it. he didn't have a healthcare plan, he kept talking about it for two years on the campaign trail, he didn't have one. and he didn't understand the one that was being voted on that's
why he can't make the case. he actually does not understand policy and therefore bannon is the only person that understand some sort of policy and therefore he is a puppet master. >> yeah but the ideas they agree on thing, donald trump for gooder ill doesn't have policy ideas. that's not who he is. anybody who's interviewed him and pressed him on policy issues during campaign knows this is not a person who thought about a lot of things. yes, he's making the decisions he's president, but steve bannon -- >> he has more of an overarching vision in terms of literacy and ideas. >> he's written movie script he's involved in entertainment and knows how to tell a story. the thing that the president doesn't have ideas -- >> i didn't say he didn't have ideas. >> there's a whole group of americans that they spoke to,
that people like us -- i was in washington, d.c., i'm saying people like us that we don't communicate to them. when they watch panels like this they don't relate to us. we're turning the dial to 11 on a bunch of issues with the president that they don't think matters when they're looking for a job, picking their kids up from school and healthcare. bannon was able to talk past that and say i care about you and it's brilliant. >> we didn't play the full interview, the author makes that point very well about how steve bannon figured out and heard the voices and figured out donald trump was somebody who was able to kind of connect with those voices -- >> fog you just said in any way contradicts what i said. >> we got to take a quick break we'll be right back. [car tires screech]
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find your awesome with the xfinity x1 voice remote. and that's it for us thank for watching. time to hand things over to don lemon for "cnn tonight." see you tomorrow. a previously undisclosed trump -- putin meeting revealed. how could that happen? this is cnn tonight i'm don lemon. turns out donald trump and vladimir putin wouldn't through talking after their meeting of two hours. they had another one on one conversation at the end of the dinner between themselves. a conversation that lasted nearly an hour. one the house never got around mentioning until now. the only three people who know what was said, donald trump, vladimir putin and a russian translator. what was it all about