tv CNN Newsroom With Ana Cabrera CNN July 22, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
furman. that's going to do it for me in new york. so glad to have you with us. good night. >> the detective and the tapes. >> do you use the word -- in describing people. >> and divided our country. [ cheers ] >> so what else was on those tapes? >> i put my hood on and i called a tribunal. >> a cnn exclusive. excerpts from the mark if you areman tapes you never heard.
>> lesbians. >> and the thought of it takes your breath away. >> laura heart mckinney tells all. >> what was it you couldn't say then that you can tell me now. >> tonight, the furman tapes revealed. >> wir now into the third day of this major riot. >> los angeles a city tortured by a history of racial rage. >> fireman attempting to get in and fight the blaze were held off by rioters. >> racist white cops ignited the riots. >> national guard and police sweep is underway to bring peace and order. >> by the late '80s allegations of excessive use of force escalated racial tensions. rappers like n wa made clear --
>> [ bleep ] the police. >> black neighbors were ready to blow. then in 1991 there was this. a grainy video of four white cops beating rodney king. when the lapd officers were exonerated in 1992, the city exploded. then just two years later. >> this is a horrendous crime we have two people dead at the scene. >> two people brutally murder, nicole brown and ron goldman, and the main suspect, football legend o.j. simpson. >> you are charged with the crime of murder, how do you pled. >> not guilty, 100% not guilty. >> there was a wealth of forensic evidence from drops of blood to shoe prints, to a
bloody glove mark furman was a detective in the investigation skbld play a pivotal role in the trial. >> do you use the word -- >> and it was a trial that from the start was clearly about race. in a city with a deep history of racial turmoil. >> when you say on your oath you have not addressed any black person as a -- or spoken about black people as -- in the past ten years, detective furman. >> that's what i'm saying, sir. >> when you were watching the trial and you see this and you know what you've got on those tapes, how did you react? what were you thinking? >> i just laughed. i couldn't believe it. i thought you got to be kidding me. why would he say that? >> she is laura heart mckinney, the wire who reported conversations with mark furman. >> anything out of a --'s mouth
is a [ bleep ] lie. >> and she has remained mostly silent until now. >> why did you decide to come forward now and talk to us? >> i trust you. >> does it feel good to talk about this? >> yes. it's time. >> ms. mckinney, come forward please. >> there were bits of the puzzle i wasn't able to reveal at the time and i was unable to be as truthful as i really wanted to be. >> so she is telling her story, her truth, and for the first time exerts from the if you areman tapes you've never heard. vulgar. >> sexist. >> how do you arrest a violent suspect? >> have a man do it.
>> disturbing. >> you got to be a borederline sociopath, you got to be violent. >> violent. >> five years ago i would have choked him out until he told me the truth. obviously he's lying the first two times, after that you need to get the truth. it's called the u7d lie did he talk test. you use that you get a lot of laughs from the policeman. like a locker room. some new kid, give him a 77th lie did he talk te lie test. >> even one tape made just months before he would testify in the o.j. simpson murder trial. >> even before the trial started, he knew how important
he was to this case. >> right. he knew exactly how important he was. >> yet he lied on the stand. >> i have no idea why. >> in 1985, mckinney met him in los angeles, ten years before the o.j. simpson trial. >> what's it like to be back here? >> this is an odd feeling, very odd feeling. >> it all began here at what was then a lis's restaurant. >> i was sitting outside working on my laptop and he said what are you doing? he was dressed in regular clothes. and he sat down. so he started asking questions and asked what you are writing? >> she told him she was writing about a woman cop. his response surprised her. >> he stopped and said a woman cop? he said you're never going to find a woman cop who's a good
cop. and i thought, whoa. >> how would the conversation unfold where you realize this guy can help me what i'm working on. >> why would you even say that? he said i work with them. they're incompetent. they're unable to hold a gun and dangerous. >> exactly what mckinney needed to write her screen play about misogyny in the los angeles police department. >> natural response is scream, hide in the corner. >> but before the recordings there was a relationship. >> first of all, weighed brief encounter. >> what do you mean by brief encounter? >> we had a romance. >> so it started out as a romance before you started doing the tapes? >> yeah, it did. i would say it did. >> the taping began with the
romantic relationship ended. >> if somebody thinks enough of you, they'll call you a name. >> the nicknames he gave these women are pretty hash. >> we have all the female names. there's one called critter. there's another one we call hench monkey, like in the wizard of oz. >> can i use that? >> sure. critter. >> what were you thinking when he said those things? >> bingo. i feel that often when i'm working on -- there will be a bingo moment. or i'll get chills. when i get chills, i can help somebody else get chills. >> but laura would get much more than chills and a dramatic screen play. >> you have to be able to shoot people, beat people beyond recognition and go home and hug your little kids.
>> her 12 tapes would become a racial powder keg. >> the defense will question laura hart mccan i beny. >> i guarantee you. there's a celebration behind closed doors. >> impacting the trial of the century. >> do you use the word -- >> the defense says those tapes will show furman is a liar and racist who was capable of planting the bloody glove. >> revealing a racist and sexist society in the lapd. >> he threatened me and said i'll take and you any other females you want to bring and i'll choke you out in a minute. . it's about moving forward, not back. it's looking up, not down.
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s. she knew exactly what her movie should be about. >> so your goal was to write a screen play about sexism within the lapd, why? >> i hate it when people are cruel to each other and that it's got to be happening not just here, it's got to be happening around the country. >> and it was sure happening in l.a. in the 1980s with resentment and retaliation against a campaign to recruit more women and minorities to the lapd. >> i could tell there was a tory there. i didn't know what the story was, but i was determined to deal with it. >> and her man on the inside, officer mark fuhrman had plenty to say on the subject.
the police academy, shadowing them, and i represent their voices. >> we were trained with this gun and how to load it. >> recognizes like tia morris. >> every rank in the department up threw capital. >> in 1983 she was new to the force and ready to protect and serve in west l.a. at roll call, rookie officers like morris sat upfront. >> the tenured officers like if you areman he and a lot of the ordinarily officers would sit in the back and throw paper or pencils at us, or make loud and vulgar comments if the watch commander read our name. they'd say, she's a pig and things like that. >> nobody stood up and said this is wrong, back down. >> no. >> when you found out you had to work with beat with him, what was your reaction? what were you thinking? >> i was scared.
i was scared only because of him standing up in front of all of our peers and in front of the watch skmarnd other officers and he flatout said i do not want to work with morris. from the moment he stepped out of roll call, he was angry. the whole night he threat understand me and challenged me to fight. he said i'll take you and any other females you want to bring up to the academy and i'll choke you out in a in a minute because you're not even strong. you can't handle a man. [ siren ] >> then came a high-priority call, burglary in progress. he didn't get out of the car so i would approach the scene by myself. >> he didn't back you up? >> no, he sat in the car. he shined his light and just sat there. i didn't get out. >> . >> what if somebody would have
come towards you? >> he would have been happy. because then he could have allowed me to get hurt and that would have been right up his alley. >> morris says she was so scared she didn't even finish her shift that night. but if you areman wasn't the only one with this attitude towards wyoming there was a covert club. they called themselves mau, men against women, meeting here at stoner park in the dead of night. >> so when i first told you about men against women, what was your reaction? >> i couldn't believe it. you guys actually go to the park after work and just drink beer and denigrate women? >> . >> i spent time here when i was writing thinking about what it
would be like for the marksau guys to be here. >> he described disciplining one of their zone if you areman and the guys would hold these late night meetings and figure out how they were going to harass other male officers that were being nice to female officers. >> who had helped them in some way? who had not reported something in a report that those officers felt they should have or done something nice for them, had backed them up. . >> coming up tribunal and kill parties. >> it takes your breath away just the thought of it. hi. i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there.
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>> mark fuhrman roll playing as the quote grand dragon, leading what he describes as a tribunal, calling out a fellow officer for fraternizing with a female cop. >> and then i go does anybody have any evidence to produce? well, on 2/25 i observed the defendant not only touch but kiss on the as one of the female officers. i did not. silence. it's a lot of fun but you blow off a lot of steam. it makes guys aware. >> seemingly makes guys aware that if they are nice to female officers there will be consequences. that's how m.a.w., men against women, reportedly worked. >> we have factions in five divisions. >> what was a typical outcome of these mock trials? these tribunals? >> depending on the crime
committed, the grand dragon would determine what the ostracization would be. that the other guys wouldn't talk with him. >> however, there was, as fuhrman describes, a way to avoid quote being put on trial. >> publicly humiliate a female officer in front of a bunch of male officers. >> tia morris says she had to work with the men of m.a.w. so when you heard about men against women and this group of guys making it their mission to intimidate and harass women, did you believe it? >> i didn't. but then i really saw how serious mark fuhrman was about the other men talking to the women. especially the male whites. if they came up to me and spoke or anything like that, mark fuhrman would say what are you doing?
don't talk to her and they would back away. >> men against women wasn't only about denegrating females, fuhrman also told screenwriter laura hart mckinney that m.a.w. held what they called kill parties. celebrations she found unimaginable. >> the thought of a kill party takes your breath away. when there was an officer-involved shooting, some officers of the m.a.w. group would celebrate it it. the thought of taking someone's life and happy that it wasn't you and finding a way to go great job. that was a hell of an evening. it's just overwhelming, the really is. the idea of a kill party. >> tribunals. kill parties. equally disturbing is that mark fuhrman stayed on the job
despite allegations of his sexism, racism. >> he told me i needed to go and dance on "soul train." >> and internal investigations. in 1985, ten years before the o.j. simpson trial, tia morris testified before an administrative board about the behavior of mark fuhrman and other officers. >> it happened because of the lieutenant that noticed the issues were spilling over to another watch. he told us what he observed and what he had been hearing about the men against women and w.a.s.p. the white anglo-saxon police. he did specify he knew it was stemming from fuhrman and said he was going to start an investigation and he did. >> they weren't formally punished but his reputation took a hit. so then mark fuhrman comes up for a promotion and you say? >> no. >> bernard parks was an lapd
deputy chief when fuhrman came up for promotion. >> a person's background had to be as sterling as possible. i made a point to always take a moment to look at somebody's background and not give them an opportunity to put the department in a bad light. >> so you knew he would put the department in a bad light? >> my view was you didn't want to take the chance. >> one year after fuhrman was passed over for a promotion, parks had to set up another task force. >> we set the task force because in the early '90s almost the same things were happening in west l.a. that were happening in the '80s and you heard rumors about women being mistreated and not given an opportunity. >> one member of that task force, tia morris. >> it was amazing to me because for one i'm sitting here thinking here i went through this in the '80s and i'm saying the department knew about a lot
of this stuff. they knew how he was and nobody did anything. >> so being on this task force, you were privy to internal reports and mark fuhrman was mentioned in a number of these. >> yes. we were privy to all of his past investigations and a stress claim he filed where he talked about how he hated blacks and hispanics. and women. and he was blaming the department for his stress because of those issues that he had. >> this time the investigation resulted in officers being reassigned, including mark fuhrman. a fateful move with consequences that no one could have imagined. coming up, mark fuhrman's behavior would no longer be just an internal problem.
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plus had less major bleeding. both made eliquis right for me. ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. by 1995 laura hart mckinney had settled down with her family in suburban north carolina. but back in l.a., her old buddy mark fuhrman was back on the stand. >> you say you have never spoken about black people as n -- or spoken about black people as n -- in the past ten years? >> that's what i'm saying, sir. >> as bailey was grilling fuhrman, no one knew about the tapes, except for her and a few close allies. then came the one phone call that changed everything. >> i picked up the phone. he said may i speak with laura hart mckinney and i said this is
she but i didn't recognize the voice. and then he said this is pat mckenna. >> mckenna was a private investigator working for o.j. simpson's lawyers. a sign to find anything that would support the defense's strategy that mark fuhrman was a racist who planted evidence. >> he asked me if aid story and if in that story i had research tapes and if i had taped mark fuhrman. >> and your thought? >> i just froze and said yes and then we left town. immediately. because i had no idea what to do. >> including what to do about some unexpected advice. >> who suggested you destroy the tapes? >> judge who was an acquaintance of mine in l.a. >> did that surprise you? >> yes. >> so did she want to protect mark fuhrman? >> i'm thinking she wanted to
protect the integrity of the trial. >> what did you say to her? >> i was flummoxed. why? >> did she see the writing on the wall? was she afraid potentially a murderer could walk free because of what these tapes represented? >> she didn't know what was on the tapes but her point was when i said the tapes are confidential and she said it's a murder trial. nothing is confidential and they would subpoena you and your tapes and your life would change forever. >> and that's exactly what happened. when mckinney refused to hand over the tapes, simpson's lawyers came to north carolina and took her to court. >> mark furman is still a friend of yours, is that correct? >> he's a business partner. i have a business relationship with him. >> and you're still trying to market this screenplay?
>> i was completely unprepared to be in a courtroom. i was extremely nervous. >> this material is collateral. and i will deny the subpoena. >> i think it's an outrageous ruling and we're going to appeal. this is bombshell evidence and it's absolutely critical. it's relevant, germane, material. >> you won. you didn't have to give up the tapes. >> yes. i was very pleased that we won and thought that's the end of it. great. >> and then you lost on appeal. >> right. >> and then you thought? >> i thought i have to send the tapes. >> so did he say, laura, please don't give up those tapes? >> he requested i not give up the tapes. >> what did you tell him? >> no. that i had to give them up. >> did you feel a need to protect him? >> no. he's very capable of protecting himself. >> as for mckinney, she could no longer protect the tapes or her
privacy. so who told pat mckenna you had these tapes? >> that, i don't know. that person has never been revealed to me. >> still a mystery? >> still a mystery. i don't know. >> so to this day you don't know who gave you up, basically to the defense. >> no. i don't know who called. >> did you stop and think about what you should next do? coming up, o.j. simpson charged with murder and mark fuhrman still taping. more from the infamous tapes you've never heard. speak now. (coughs) so sorry. oh no... it's just that your friend daryl here is supposed to be live streaming the wedding and he's not getting any service. i missed, like, the whole thing. what? and i just got an unlimited plan. it's the right plan, wrong network. you see, verizon has the largest,
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good afternoon, ms. mckinney. >> good afternoon, mr. cochran. >> over the -- >> johnny cochran had everything he wanted. laura hart mckinney, her tapes, and recordings of mark fuhrman saying the "n" word. >> and in preparation of your testimony today can you tell the jury how many times you counted that he used that word? >> approximately 42. >> 42 times? >> yes.
>> yeah, the 77th. leave that old station. it's got the smell of -- >> how did you stomach listening to that over and over again? >> those comments that he used made me feel repulsed but also it lit a fire under me. it's despicable, the fact he can think about that and talk like that makes me think it's happening and so i have to find a way to reflect that. >> so it just empowered you. >> it just pissed me off. >> and it made her a crucial player in the trial of the century. she could have profited handsomely from those tapes but she didn't. >> i would never do that. i would never have sold the tapes. >> is it true you were offered $250,000 for them?
s. >> i was. >> why didn't you sell them? >> no one, talking about me, should be profiting from this tragedy people have to live with every day of their life. >> but mckinney was still thrust into the spotlight and that meant anxiety and fear. i remember you got a lot of death threats. a lot of people were angry with you. they didn't understand why these tapes had to come about. >> right. >> did you feel safe during all of that? >> no. i was extremely scared. >> in a matter of the people of state of california. >> the verdict didn't make her feel any safer. >> we find the defendant not guilty of the crime of murder. >> what was your reaction to the verdict when o.j. simpson was found not guilty? >> i didn't go out of the house for a while. >> really? >> yes. >> why?
>> there was the reality that maybe the tapes had something to do with the jury's verdict and because of that i would be persona non grata in many people's eyes. >> mark fuhrman certainly was exposed as a liar and forced to go silent. >> detective fuhrman, did you plant or manufacture any evidence in this case? >> i assert my fifth amendment privilege. >> but his silence would not protect him. his voice on those tapes could not be erased. excerpts you are now hearing for the very first time. >> you got to be a borderline sociopath, you have to be violent and walk away from blood and go to dinner. you have to be able to shoot
people, beat people beyond recognition and go home and hug your little kids. you don't pack those qualities. no women do, and if you do they're either so ugly or they're lesbians or so dyke-ish that they're not women anymore. they're like caught in between it's like half in a door and half out. you know they're caught between dimensions. there's just no way to do it all. >> stories of alleged sexism, racism, and police brutality. mckinney's tapes would impact more than just the o.j. simpson trial. they would impugn the integrity of the lapd. when you heard those tape recordings for the first time, what did you think? >> it was a belly punch at the wrong time.
and you go how could this have happened to us? how did we even let him stay on the job? >> he was an lapd assistant chief when a task force investigated everything fuhrman said on those tapes. why had he been allowed to behave the way he did for so long and not be held accountable? >> because the command staff that was in charge of him did not do the job they should have done, which is to deal with the issue in a strong manner. so it was kind of shunted off to the side. boys will be boys and we needed to tell the organization if you even claim to be engaged in this kind of behavior, we'll investigate it and let chips fall where they may. and secondly, if it was within statute, then we would take it to the district attorney and file on it it. >> in 1997 the task force
released this report, keeping secret portions of the tapes. excerpts not played in court and never made public until now. this is the confidential version of that report. it reveals more of fuhrman's disturbing recordings. quote, grabbed her by the hair and stuck a gun to her head. held her like this. threw the -- down the stairs. and quote i'd pick up three or four gang members, bring them to the station. take one in the basement and just beat the dog out of him." >> hundreds of inert views were conducted and nearly a quarter of a million documents were reviewed. >> in the end the task force confirmed 12 of 29 events described by fuhrman. but concluded that he embellished a lot, that just about everything he
told mckinney was bigger, bloodier and more violent than the actual events. with one exception. m.a.w. men against women. >> did you ever at any point feel i need to report what he's saying? this is dangerous? >> no. no, i didn't. i really believe that if i could tell the story in a way that was honest and fair with a strong narrative that i could help inform people. >> fuhrman's words would inspire mckinney's writing for decades. >> he told you he personally felt trapped. what did he mean by that? >> he was trying to articulate the depth of his soul. there is something with his own identity that was connected to being a police officer and so much of it was being besmirched by having to work with women that if he'd been in a different
time in history, he would have been more appreciated, more respected, more openly respected by people. next, fuhrman worries more about the movie than the murder. >> and whatever happened to mckinney's screenplay? "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business. when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites.
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mark fuhrman was still getting together with you and recording these tapes after the murders had happened. did you find that odd at all, that he was okay being recorded talking about this? >> no. no. because he liked to talk about his thoughts and his feelings. >> stunning to hear now, but not really surprising when looking back on a man known to be cocky. >> do you use the word "nigger"? >> no, sir. >> and pled no contest to perjury. but in his 1997 book, fuhrman apologized, writing, "in my
heart i always knew it was wrong, even if i said them only to create a fictional story. my first fall our was the lure of agreed and the second was my lack of compassion." >> i'm not a racist. >> fuhrman also went on an apology tour, visiting diane sawyer, oprah, and larry king. >> i thought i knew better, being a policeman, how to make the most controversial, outrageous, violent, controversially crammed police show we could make. and i was wrong. i didn't know what i was doing. >> one thing fuhrman has said is, eh, at times maybe i got a little carried away talking to laura. i don't know if you've heard that before. what's your reaction to that? >> he said those things, so he believed them. but i don't think he got carried away. i think he was truthful. >> today, no longer a screenplay consultant or a cop, fuhrman, who declined to be interviewed
for this program, is an author and tv crime analyst. as for laura hart mckinny -- >> screen writing is such an emotional journey. we have to be willing to be vulnerable. >> she teaches screenwriting at the university of north carolina school of the arts. and that screenplay she developed with mark fuhrman's help? it never became a movie. >> missouri scum who should not be allowed in her policemen and police women brotherhood. >> it became a book. >> he violated all principles by touching a female officer. he glanced at the notepad and pounded his heart, oh, god, kissing one policewoman in uniform and embarrassing it all. >> it's fiction. and the title? the same as fuhrman's real life secret society. men against women. was completing this book
therapeutic to you after all these decades? >> yes. >> publishing the book was therapeutic. but disclosing the tapes? still painful. for more than 20 years, you were the woman with the tapes that changed the face of this trial. what has that been like for you? >> it hasn't been good, i will say. that part hasn't been good. i've felt that ashamed would be wrong, but i have felt bad that the revelation of the tapes could have actually had something to do with the verdict. >> -- simpson not guilty of murder -- >> could have actually helped to make a guilty man go free. >> if this is your verdict, so say you one, so say you all.
>> but those tapes have also done exactly what mckinny started out to do. chief willie williams proposed sweeping changes in how his department handles sexual harassment. >> it doesn't happen under my watch, period. >> are you glad laura recorded mark fuhrman? >> absolutely. it had a huge impact on the o.j. simpson trial and made us look absolutely horrible within our minority community. they said, look, we've been saying all along that you used the "n" word, that you lie. and it took years after this to deal with it. >> we will be doing the reorganization of the department, and it will serve the best interests of the duties of this department and the citizens of los angeles.
>> are you glad laura recorded mark fuhrman? >> i'm very pleased. most things, hard lessons, are things that are thrust upon you when you don't ask for them and you have to react to them. you think everybody is better for it. >> i think those tapes spoke volumes. the revelation was priceless. >> decades later, are you glad you didn't destroy those tapes? >> yes. >> why? >> i have three sons. i would have a very hard time today sitting here thinking of my sons and telling them that i destroyed something that i was proud that i had done. >> why would he want to keep talking to you for so many years? did he ever say why? >> he wanted to be infamous. >> that's what he said? >> he said that. >> but infamous is very
different from famous. >> he said, no, i want to be infamous. >> well, he became infamous. >> he did. the fbi arrested ten people for allegedly spying for russia for up to a decade. >> most of them spent decades blending in with american society. >> a long term fbi investigation. >> ten suspected sleeper spies. >> they just seemed like a nice quiet family. >> their whole goal was to disappear. literally disappear into a community and not be recognized for who they are. this is a different world. this is the world of those who are involved in trying to be able to hurt our country