tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 25, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
good evening. thanks for joining us tonight. the senate votes to proceed on debating a health care bill still mired in mystery. jared kushner behind closed doors on capitol hill in the russian investigation. bewie begin with the president's attacks on jeff sessions as well as the acting director of the fbi whom he accused of basically being corrupt. for a man who campaigned on law enforcement, he has a funny way of treating the top law enforcement personnel in the country. today at the white house, the president was asked feld fire his attorney general or trying to make him resign. >> why you're sort of letting him twist in the wind rather than making the call for him? >> i don't think i am doing that. but i am disappointed in the attorney general. he should not have recused
himself. almost immediately after he took office. and if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me prior to taking office and i would have quite simply picked somebody else. so i think that's a bad thing, not for the president but for the presidency. i think it's unfair to the presidency. and that's the way i feel. >> when pressed by another reporter whether he would fire sessions, the president said we'll have to wait and see and i quote, time will tell which does seem to mean the attorney general is twisting in the wind. the bigger issue is whether the president understands or cares what the role of the attorney general is supposed to be in our democracy. he criticized sessions for recusing himself for anything to do with the russian investigation. today the president tweeted "attorney general jeff sessions has taken a very weak position on hillary clinton crimes where are the e-mails and dnc server and intel leakers. putting aside he may be trying to divert attention from the
russia investigation, the role of the attorney general regarding hillary clinton should not be a surprise to anyone. sessions own confirmation hearing he made it clear he had no intention of going after clinton. >> with regard to secretary clinton and some of the comments i made, i do believe that that could place my on the activity in question. i've given that thought. i believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigationsing that involve secretary clinton that were raised during the campaign. >> for all his new attacks on clinton, the president didn't seem interested in fulfilling the campaign chants of lock her up. here's what he said in mid november talking about the clintons. >> i don't want to hurt them. i don't want to hurt them. they're good people. i don't want to hurt them. >> what a difference eight months and an escalating investigation to the people
around you makes. as for attorney general sessions, today anthony scaramucci said the president "wants his cabinet secretaries to have his back." what trump doesn't seem to understand is that the role of attorney general is to represent the country in legal matters not to have the president's back. one person among many who does seem to understand that is the current attorney general. here's what he said at his confirmation hearing back in january. >> the office of attorney general of the united states is not a norm had political office. and anyone who holds it must have total fidelity to the laws and the constitution of the united states. he or she must be committed to following the law. he or she must be willing to tell the president or other top officials if no if he or they overreach. he or she cannot be a mere rubber stamp into for a president who often talked how important loyalty is and asked comey for a pledge of loyalty, the president doesn't seem very
loyal to his attorney general. in an interview with the "wall street journal" today, the president said this about the campaign rally in alabama where he won sessions' endorsement, his first from a sitting senator. "i had 40,000 people. he was a senator from alabama. i won the state by a lot. massive numbers. a lot of states i won by massive numbers but he was a senator. he looks at 40,000 people and probably says what do i have to lose and endorsed me. it's not a great loyal thing about the endorsement but i'm very disappointed in jeff session." with friends like these, you know the rest. jeff zeleny joins me. start with the president early this morning tweeting about the attorney general but it seemed to go on throughout the day. >> it started in the 6:00 hour and a in your riff messages that the president was sending out clearly still agitated and fuming about his attorney general. now is, he's essentially setting the tone for the rest of the day with that. he did an interview with "the wall street journal." he held that press conference in the rose garden, all along you
know, so agitated with his attorney general. the question hanging over all of this would he fire him, but this is what he said in the rose garden. >> i want the attorney general to be much tougher on the leaks from intelligence agencies. which are leaking like rarely have they ever leaked before at a very important level. these are intelligence agencies we cannot have that happen. you know many of my views in addition to that but i think that's one of the very important things that they have to get on with. i told you before i'm very disappointed with the attorney general. but we will see what happens. time will tell. time will tell. >> so saying time will tell, time will tell not exactly a ringing endorsement but not giving any certainty either way there. but interesting, anderson, for the first time he's bringing up the fact that he wants his attorney general to be harder on leaks. of course, the reason for his anger the root of his anger you talk to any of his advisers, it
is the entirety of the russia investigation. still so upset about that, but he shouldn't have been surprised, it's, because the attorney general jeff sessions then senator said he would recuse himself during his own confirmation hearing in january. >> why is the president so hesitant to fire sessions if he's so clearly jump set with him? >> i think his first instinct was to fire him or the shaming so obvious that he would step aside. but he's been advised by many of his advisers here in the west wing as well as some outside advisers that replacing the attorney general will be so incredibly difficult. imagine in this environment in washington trying to confirm someone, trying to get someone through the senate even the republican controlled senate. so many republican senators are coming to sessions' defense saying look, the attorney general is not the president's lawyer. he's the attorney general of the united states. so the that's why advisers are saying the president has held
off as of now on firing him because he has been persuaded at how difficult it would be to replace him. but still tonight, anderson, the attorney general very much uncertain sort of in limbo, if you will, and the president still fuming, anderson. >> jeff, thanks. the president is in youngstown, ohio, tonight for a campaign style rally. sara murray is there. the president taking the stage a short time ago. what's been his message so far this crowd? has he talked about the attorney general? >> reporter: well, certainly we've been watching for any sign of the president would bring up jeff sessions. he left him twisting out there today. he hasn't actually mentioned sessions by name but he did hint at what people have thought is sort of erratic behavior from the president particularly when it comes to this sessions issue. listen to president trump just recently earlier this evening talking about his not so presidential behavior. >> although i'll be totally
honest with you. sometimes they say he doesn't act presidential. and i say hey, look, great schools. smart guy. it's so easy to act presidential. but that's not going to get it done. in fact, i said it's much easier, by the way, to act presidential than what we're doing here tonight. believe me. and i said, with the exception of the late great abraham lincoln, i can be more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. that i can tell you. >> now, that riff certainly seemed like a reference to the game of chicken he's playing with the attorney general. it wasn't zt only newsy item. trump is still speaking.
i brought up health care warning any senator who votes against repeal and replace is probably going to have problems. >> sara, thanks very much. joining me tonight kirsten powers, jeffrey toobin, maggie haberman, and david shallian. you've been talking to folks probably close to the president. what is he doing with jeff sessions? >> a lot of this is a kaleidoscope. you're looking at it and people are seeing different things. is he genuinely very angry, blames jeff sessions. he said this in this interview with me and my colleagues last week. he has continued to say it, even saying it privately. in his heart of hearts, he would like jeff sessions gone. jeff is correct, is he caught in this sort of catch 22. he wants him gone but who is the replacement and how do you get the replacement in unless it's a recess appointment which will create all kinds of backlash. in terms of backlash, he is choosing the one person who really is not only indicating a pretty pure conservative policy formula out of anybody in his
administration with the exception of scott pruitt to attack and he is somebody who has a lot of credit with the conservative base and the reaction and support sessions has gotten surprised the president a bit. >> david, i want to read thing "the washington post" reported. in a recent conversation, sessions chief of staff told reince priebus the attorney general had no intention of stepping down. hunt made it clear to priebus that sessions "plans to move forward with his agenda in the department and he has no plans for resigning," according to one person familiar with the exchange. priebus did not say trump planned to fire sessions if he didn't leave. these people said. what do you make of that, david? >> we're missing what do you think of that, mr. president? the ball's in your court now. clearly what sessions and the team around him are trying to make clear here is you know what, mr. president, if you don't want me to be your attorney general anymore, you have to fire me. i'm sticking around. it's not sacrificing that that is the posture affidavit a day where all of his former
colleagues up on capitol hill in the senate started putting out statements supporting him, attesting to his integrity, some going as far as to make the case that he was correct to recuse himself which as you know is at the very core of what angers president trump about sessions. >> you know, kirsten, what sort of message does it send to other senators or folks on capitol hill who may be facing whether it's tough votes on health care when the president says i'll have your back, he turns on jeff sessions, why would they believe he would support them when times get tough? >> they shouldn't. we've discussed before that loyalty is a one-way street with donald trump. he expects it to flow to him and doesn't necessarily feel the need to send it back the other direction. it raises the questions why would anybody want this job or take the job when they see what's happening. i think the reason he isn't firing, one of the reasons is because we often talk what would it take to get donald trump's base to turn on him. this actually could possibly be one of those things, even
breitbart today ran something criticizing trump for his treatment of sessions. sessions is steve bannon's mentor. he's described him as one of his mentors. this is somebody who the base really loves and who is really carrying out the few things i think people can look at and say are happening in terms of conservative governing. so the problem for trump he would prefer that he resigns versus him having to fire him. maybe he thinks he can humiliate him into firing him. it's not going to work though. >> the attorney general the idea he should have the president's back, that's not his primary responsibility of the attorney general. >> right, that's the substantively disturbing part of this. the human interaction of his lack of loyalty is kind of creepy but that's sort of just a personality matter. the department of justice exists to enforce the law equally with regard to all people. the president of the united states entered this office under investigation. jeff sessions realized correctly that as an important campaign
surrogate, he couldn't lead that investigation. african agrees that was a correct decision, and trump's obsession with loyalty, i mean as you pointed out, it was a big theme of his interactions with jim comey. this is why he's mad at -- this is why he's mad at sessions. mr. scaramucci, the new communications director said you know, cabinet members have to have the president's back. no, not the attorney general. the attorney general's job is to be independent. the president doesn't get that. >> that's not how the it went down though. there's an important factual issue there which is it's not that jeff sessions realized this is taking place and i need to recuse myself because i was a surrogate. he gave a botched answer during his confirmation hearing and when that was confronted with that, this he recused himself and he didn't give the president a heads up in the process. in the president's mind, i'm not just justifying it but saying i don't think it was because jeff sessions initially realized there was some issue at play.
it was an issue he created. >> but that makes trump's position even more bizarre. >> i understand what you're saying. >> it's because there was this is intervening fact. >> correct. >> of the botched testimony. >> correct. what sessions did most people think was the right thing to do. the president would be one of the few exceptions. but it is an important point in terms of how that went down. >> jim, the president's criticizing sessions for not being tough on leakers. sessions did oversee the arrest of a leaker and he's cracking down on immigration, the war on drugs, all things the president wanted him to do. >> true this is about none of that except russia. when the president fired james comey, there was a cover story that lasted less than 24 hours. you remember this deputy ag rosenstein memo about how comey mishandled the clinton investigation. this was something that the white house spokespeople propagated for again, about a day till the president blew that up himself and said it was how
comey handled the russia investigation. here now before the president makes a move he says outright it's how he handled the russia investigation. that's really what this is. the president has said it himself and it's with a pattern here that he's upset with a number of people whether it be sessions or mueller or comey before him because it's an investigation he's uncomfortable with and that he wants to go away. and as the president often does, he measures loyalty and effectiveness via the prism of how does it affect him himself and with sessions here, he's the latest victim to fall to that. sessions did not defend him from this russia investigation did, not make it go away and therefore, sessions is not doing his job right. that's the way the president sees it. it's not the way democrats see it, it's not the way many republicans i speak to see it, but that's the way the president sees it. >> keer kirsten have you seen anything like this? >> of course not.
this is kind of the only word i can think of is sort of bullying. it seems like somebody just taunting somebody. it's not bullying in the sense that jeff sessions is an adult and can take care of himself. it's this idea trump can kind of swat him around like a cat playing with a toy there's something unseemly about it. >> we'll take a look more specifically at this idea of loyalty in the trump camp. also senator john mccain making a plea for bipartisanship after voing to bring a health care bill to the floor, a bill he says he has no intention of voting for in its current form. gives us more. t we want more than just texting. more than just surfing and shopping. because sure, we want to use this to call the people we love- - like our directors. but mostly, to get the entertainment we love. maaaaark ! ! ! switch to at&t for the only unlimited plan that gives you 60 channels of live television on any screen all for $70 a month.
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he said it to the boy scouts yesterday and other crowds for a while. >> we could use some more loyalty. i love loyalty. loyalty can be a wonderful thing. loyalty is very important. >> loyalty. you know, some of these people have like a 10% loyalty meaning if they sneeze in the wrong direction they're gone. >> well, this isn't a new thing for the president. he said this in 1994. >> i'm like this great loyalty freak. i'm loyal to a point of the absurd. >> back now with the panel. joining the conversation ken cuccinelli and scott jennings. scott last you said sessions is a man of integrity. there's a lot of republican members of congress including other who have come to his defense who disagree what the president is doing. do you disagree with what the president is doing? >> i think at some point these guys should think about talking. jeff session coz call up the white house and ask for a meeting. they could clear the air or they won't. sessions signaled this week if you want to fire me, fire me. otherwise i'm going to indicate
your agenda and doing a pretty good job. the president is frustrated about if he's going to be put through the wringer about things that came in the campaign, why is he being held to a standard over campaign stuff hillary is not being held to. something caught my eye tonight you'll see more of in the coming days. it appears to me that reacting to perhaps the president's frustration, some conservatives on the house judiciary committee will try to move forward with a congressional investigation on loretta lynch and things that came out in jim comey's testimony. i don't know what's going to happen to jeff sessions. i don't believe he's going to resign. ultimately the president may get his wish. people will look into hillary but it will be congress, not the doj. >> ken, does this make sense to you the president is doing this so publicly? >> flow, i wouldn't use that phrase it makes sense. i will say that jeff sessions is showing people he's a standup person when it comes to the rule of law and the constitution and respecting the office he holds. and i have to also say that it
is nice to hear after eight years so much of the largely left media establishment defending the role of the attorney general as somewhat independent. the last attorney general's for president obama did his will, but president obama and they were much smoother about not doing all this public junk that we're seeing almost daily from the president directed at attorney general sessions. >> i mean, to your point, you had director comey testifying about loretta lynch telling him what i think adjective it was or verb, i guess an adjective. >> noun. >> what noun it was how to describe whether it was an investigation or. >> matter. >> a matter which is just -- and he went along with it which i am also surprised from you. i saw a tweet where you went through folks who have been fired in this administration who actually did the firing. it never seems to be the president himself. for a guy well-known being the
person on the "apprentice" who said you're fired, does he not like actual interpersonal pressure. >> people who have worked with him closely over decades say that he actually really, really dislikes interpersonal conflict when it's direct conflict. he's fine with this kind which is tweeting that jeff sessions is beleaguered or that this is terrible or sort of giving a shove in a certain way. but he is -- i asked one a couple of people close to him why is he doing this? why doesn't he just fire him. answer from all of them because he can, he can do this. and you can do with that what you will. in all of these instances comey he september his aide with a letter. corey lure r lewandowski it was don junior executed it. when it was flynn i believe that steve bannon was the one who had to deal with that. when chris christie was shoved off, again it was steve bannon. this is not something where trump calls somebody on the
carpet and says that's the end. it's counter this image he created on the "apprentice." >> if you listen to the litany, who is it he's so loyal to? in that clip he was saying i'm a loyalty freak or so loyal to people had is there somebody he's been loyal to? >> loyal to himself. >> you just did the whole lis how he has other people. he doesn't have the decency. >> he's loyal to his family. >> but also politically, think about the house republicans who voted for the health care bill. he has that big celebration. all these house republicans took a tough vote that they may lose their office because of. and then he turns around and says the house bill was too mean. which chuck schumer jumped on immediately and said even the president says -- so that's an absence of loyalty that may cost republicans their jobs. >> really important. >> if sessions is replaced eventually what, does that mean for leadership of the investigation? it would revert back to the sitting attorney general instead
of rosenstein? >> that's right. first of all, if you fire sessions does rosenstein stay. and then you have a question as to who would be willing to carry out what the president wants. i mean, you have these watergate parallels that come up. and you remember the saturday night massacre. you had the attorney general and deputy attorney general resign refuse to carry out the firing of archibald cox. then you had robert bork who was willing to do it. who would that character been in that scenario. beyond that, you have would the senate in light of not just being upset with this decision but also with their their collegial loyalty to a former fellow senator jeff sessions would they be -- how quickly do they go through the process of approving a presidential appointment to replace a jeff sessions. >> anderson, to that point, if you were trying to replace jeff sessions as a political matter with one who was as popular with the nationalists sort of conservative base that trump has
sulticated, i don't think you could get that person confirmed right now. at the end of the day, have you session who's is popular with trump's base and if you try to confirm someone new, i can almost guarantee you the trump base wouldn't like who they could get through. sessions staying around ultimately politically may be the best thing for the president even if he has short-term frustration. >> sessions isn't just popular with the president's base. is he also popular with the movement conservative base that didn't initially get on board with president trump. but did later. and he so he has a broad coalition of grass-roots support himself just in the attorney general. >> and dave, to a point kirsten made earlier, the justice department, he's doing things to indicate the agenda. i mean, it's not as if he's -- it may not get coverage every day but he's moving forward. >> tonight at the rally in youngstown, ohio, donald trump touted how tough the administration is being on sanctuary cities, how tough they are cracking down on
immigration. he didn't give hat tips to sessions tonight. he left his name out of that. but he was touting the big achievements of his administration before this crowd, he was touting the work of jeff sessions. >> ken did you say maybe he should tweet it. >> maybe jeff sessions should tweet this stuf. >> i'm not sure if he's on twitter. up next the other breaking story out of washington today. the senate barely voted to move forward with the health care plan. now there's a twist, something the democrats are doing tonight. we'll tell you about that plus senator bernie sanders joins me, as well. vacation. so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. visit booking.com. booking.yeah!
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yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens. more braving news. the senate barely eked out a vote to move forward on the gop repeal and replacement plan. two votes ron johnson's and senator mccain made it all possible as did a tiebreaking vote by vice president mike pence. mccain's support for startling -- store starting debate may not extend to the actual bill or the process his party leaders are using to create it. take a look. >> i think we'd all agree they haven't been overburdened by
greatness lately. and right now, they aren't producing much for the american people. both sides have let this happen. we keep trying to find a way to win without help from across the aisle. that's an approach that's been employed by both sides mandating legislation from the top down without any support from the other side with all the parliamentary maneuvers that requires. we are getting nothing done, my friends. we're getting nothing done. i voted for the motion to proceed to allow debate to continue and amendments to be offered. i will not vote for this bill as it is today. it's a shell of a bill right now. we all know that. >> phil mattingly joins me from capitol hill. what are you hearing from sources about how how republican leadership was able to pull this off today? >> a lot of policy promises. a lot of political assurances and some good old fashioned arm twisting. even this morning, president trump, vice president pence on
the phone to on the fence members trying to get them across the line. one source telling me the president would essentially tell members how well he did in their state and why they should vote with him. don't look past what senator mitch mcconnell was doing making promises to his members they would get opportunities to vote on what they wanted policy wise. in the end, it was the pressure that ended up working. members recognizing this was a vote they were going to be going on the record and very real concern almost fear of being the person that killed this issue that they voted on for seven years or campaigned on for seven years. the process will continue but there's no question about it, anderson. it was not easy to get here and probably won't be easy to get it done either. >> where do things stand as far as passing some version of the health care bill. >> it's extremely complicated. right now they're in the process of debating and about to vote on the first amendment. take a look what mitch mcconnell said today kind of underscoring the difficulty they face going
forward. >> it's an open amendment process. this is just the beginning. we're not out here to spike the football. this is a long way. but weigh finish at the end of the week hopefully so we're pleased to have been able to take the first step in that direction today. >> anderson,et me tell you what's about to happen in a couple minutes. one of those amendments offered to the wary senators something that would add $100 billion for medicaid expansion state senators worried, more robust regulatory cutbacks will be on the senate floor for a vote in short order. that will fail. they will continue to debate and have a repeal only vote tomorrow. basically what you're seeing right now the is votes on anticipates that check the boxes for member who's they hadn't been able to get on board. all of those amendment votes are expected to fail. where does that leave mitch mcconnell? it's an open question. have you democrats that have been kind of delaying things as much as possible up to this point. they will start to throw out a lot of very damaging political
amendments trying to make republicans vote on those types of things. the reality remains. there is no clear ends game right now. we're going to have to watch this play out. there's real concern and a real possibility that they don't have the votes when the this is all said and done. it's going to be a wild next 48 to 72 hours. >>fy, appreciate it. earlier i spoke with senator bernie sanders for his take on today's vote. >> senator sanders, based on what you saw today, president trump calling today's vote a big step forward, do you think the republicans are going to be able to repeal and replace obamacare in. >> anderson, he think i can say without any hesitancy there's nobody in the united states senate who has a clue what's going on or what will go on. what trump thinks is a great step forward is part of his belief that we should throw 22 million people off of health insurance, raise premiums for older workers and cut medicaid by $800 billion. that's not what the american people think is a great step forward.
now, what happened today with the tie-breaking vote by the rpt is that we are going to proceed. what i think is going to happen later tonight is that the trump/mcconnell disastrous bill in fact is going to be defeated. we'll see what happens tomorrow. so i think nobody quite knows where we are but i was disappointed that only two republicans had the guts to say no to this disastrous process. >> if it is defeated tonight, what is the next step? i mean republicans clearly want to push this forward. >> what i think is there's so much confusion and disagreement within the republican ranks that what they may end up doing is coming together on a much, much narrower bill. it would be a bill that perhaps repeals the individual mandate, the employer mandate. repeals the tax on medical devices. and then if they could pass that and by the way, there's no guarantee that they can pass that, if they can pass that, then they would go to conference
committee with the house. but this narrow bill is very, very different from the disastrous bill in the house. and whether they could reach agreement and how long that would take frankly nobody knows. >> earlier today, you tweeted "this is america we are not going to pass legislation that allows thousands of people to die." some critics pounced on that saying is it fair to insinuate republicans would put forth legislation that would allow thousands of people to die. >> this is what study after study has shown. the republicans don't like to hear it. no republican in the congress wants to see anybody die unnecessarily. but what study after study including studies done at the harvard school of public health show is when you throw 23 million people off of health insurance, people who are now receiving cancer treatment, people who have serious heart diseases, people who have diabetes, people who have life-threatening illnesses, what do you think happens? and what study after study shows is that many, many thousands of
people will die. republicans don't like to hear it. they don't want to hear it, then they should not pass legislation that would do exactly that. >> what can democrats do next? is there any hope for a bipartisan effort on this bill. >> senator mccain called for it today. >> that's right. he was on the floor. what he said is in so many words this whole process has been absurd. you can't write a bill behind closed doors without any public hearings and without any serious debate. i would hope that senator mccain and my other republican colleagues will in fact vote to junk this process and there will be amendments being offered by democrats to enable them to do that. take this bill back to the committees and let's see how we can improve the affordable care act. nobody thinks the affordable care act is perfect. serious problems. premiums too high. deducts and copayments too high. prescription drug prices off the charts. let's see how we can improve the
affordable care act, not destroy it. in my view after that, we have to go forward. i believe we should move toward medicare care for all single pair program guaranteeing health care to all people. >> the president has said if the republicans can't pass this, let obamacare fail on its own and the democrats will come to the table. >> well, that is what he says. i want you to think about that for a second. here is the president of the united states saying i, the president, and this is what he's doing now, we're going to sabotage the law and make sure components of the law are not being implemented. we want to see it fail and want millions of people to lose their health insurance so we can win some political points. how pathetic is that for a president of the united states to say. by the way, mr. president, if you think it is the democrats who are going to be held responsible for the failure of the affordable care act, you got another guess coming. the american people know what's going on. you mr. president and your republican colleagues will be
held accountable. >> i'll have more with my interview in a moment and get his take on senator john mccain's return for today's vote, plus what he thinks of the president's attacks on attorney general jeff sessions. also, paul manafort and son-in-law jared kushner each smoke with congressional investigators. one of them got a subpoena. details in a moment. ...it starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected. that's the power of and. helping small businesses.ut, jamie -- damage your vehicle? we got you covered.
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quite a day in washington. the senate barely advances the gop health care plan with senator john mccain returning days after brain surgery and vice president mike pence breaking the tie. at the white house, the president not backing down from his attack against jeff sessions. we talked about both of these issues to senator bernie sanders. here's more of that interview. >> just on a personal level, what what did you make of the speech that senator mccain gave? what was that moments like? >> well, i have known john mccain for many years and personal liam very, very fond of him. obviously i was disappointed by his vote today. but john is you know an old timer. john remembers when the senate functioned in a very different way. and when john was essentially saying is this is not working. it's not working on health care
or anything else. and you know, i think it was a message to by the way, indicated he would not vote for this legislation in its present form. i think what he was saying is let's get back to regular order which means you've got committees. i'm on the health education labor committee. let the committees work on these issues. let's have serious debate. i thought what he said was useful in that regard. >> you went up and spoke to him can you say what you told him? >> i've known john. obviously i think every member of the senate regardless of their political views has a lot of affection for him. he is a real american hero. he is an icon. he has time and time again done things that you would not expect the republican senator to do and he did it again today. >> just last night, sorry. >> go ahead. >> just last night, i want to ask you what is happening between the president and attorney general sessions. i mean, what do you make of this? what do you think is going on here in the president telling
"the wall street journal" that it wasn't so much as a loyalty thing with sessions that he basically was attracted by the large crowds during the campaign in alabama and that's why he stood by the side of trump? >> anderson, i would tell you that what the president is doing is unbelievable but that's become a hacknied word. every day what he does is beyond belief. how do you appoint a guy who is a member of the united states senate make him attorney general and then undermine him and humiliate him? sessions and trumps views are very, very different than mine. many of his ideas as attorney general are disastrous. just very much the opposite of what i think we need in terms of criminal justice and immigration and so forth. but you don't treat a human being, somebody you have appointed to that position in this kind of humiliating way. and i think it sends a message to every member of trump's administration that you have an unstable guy at the top who turn
on you for whatever reason. and it's hard for me to understand how we can have an administration running this country with that kind of mentality. >> senator sessions -- senator sanders, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you very much. probably the only time he's ever been mistaken for senator sessions. more breaking news. the senate judiciary committee pulled back on an effort to force the president's former campaign chairman to testify publicly. manu raju has details on that. so the subpoena issued to compel paul man fourth to appear tomorrow was dropped. are there planinics to have him testify publicly at this point. >> that is still under negotiation. one thing sthag senator feinstein told me he absolutely needs to appear in a public session. the matter is when. he will not appear tomorrow. that was the threat initially when monday night, both chuck grassley and feinstein issue aid subpoena to compel his appearance before wednesday because they believe he
backtracked on behind a separate deal in which they agreed to have an interview with him privately for him to submit documents and after which, that they said that man for the only agreed to have one strans described with all the conscious greggsal committees investigating the russia issue. today earlier man for the did meet with the senate investigation committee, gave a private interview with the trump tower meeting in june 2016 with donald trump jr. in which donald trump junior was promised dirt from the russians. did he meet with investigators on that, but the judiciary wants its own meeting with him and right now they drop that subpoena threat after manafort agreed to negotiate for a private interview as well as to provide for documents to them, as well. >> kushner's appearance in front of the house intelligence committee today, will that be the last time he testifies? >> unclear at this point. i talked to senator mark warner earlier tonight, the chairman or
vice chairman confident senate intelligence committee who said "absolutely. kushner must appear again." earlier this week he only talked to staff of the committee. today he met more three hours with the house intelligence committee. mike conway told me he doesn't have a need for kushner to come back, but he said if democrats want him to come back, he would be open to that request. i tried to ask jared kushner that on multiple occasions. i would not answer questions coming in and out of the hearing of the committee but i expect pressure for him to come back and particularly on the senate side where mark warner says he must come back and answer questions from senator. >> appreciate it. president trump is back on the road tonight this time playing to a crowd of thousands in ohio. what his supporters at the rally think about the russia investigation next. i take pictures of sunrises, but with my back pain i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.
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well, with health care reform and russia investigation heating up on capitol hill, the president is hitting the road. a short time ago, president trump finished a campaign-style rally in youngstown, ohio, pretty much the base of his support, not to mention a key swing state. our gary tuchman caught up with key supporters a of the rally started. >> reporter: jojo says she arrived for donald trump's ohio rally at 5:00 a.m. so you're 14 hours early?
>> that's okay. >> you're devoted? >> i'm devoted. true. >> reporter: and she is among many others just like her. the people who come to donald trump's rallies are among the most loyal portion of his base. do you think he should stop talking about hillary clinton and move on? >> lock her up. lock her up. >> reporter: this guy wants her locked up. >> i want her locked away. so tweet away. what i say is tweet away. as long as he gets his message across, that's all that matters. >> reporter: amid the loyalty and devotion, though, there is a difference of opinion between the president and some of his supporters about -- jeff sessions, the attorney general, has been very loyal to donald trump from the beginning. donald trump is tweeting about him, saying some things like he's shaming his attorney general, wanting him to step down. do you think that donald trump should get rid of jeff sessions? >> i personally like jeff sessions. i think he's doing a very good job. i think he's dedicated to what his job is to do. >> does it bother you that trump is doing this? >> in a way, it does. >> sessions is a good attorney general.
ie i don't think they should get rid of him. and i don't think he wants to get rid of him. i think the media makes that up. >> reporter: for the record, donald trump has called his attorney general beleaguered and called him weak. and many here agree with that, adding that jeff sessions should go for the good of the team. >> i think that if donald trump feels like sessions isn't doing his whole job, bye-bye. >> reporter: daniel is one who, like the president, is angered that sessions recused himself. >> some think donald trump wants sessions to quit so he could bring in a new attorney general who could then get rid of robert mueller, the special counsel. >> i think the special counsel should be gotten rid of. it's ridiculous. >> reporter: robert mueller has had an esteemed career. there's not much talk about that here. >> i hope that mueller is trying to get himself fired. he's obviously a very un -- he's not a -- it's not a special counsel. it's a witch hunt. >> reporter: you know that for sure?
>> uh, look at all the people he's hired. >> reporter: but you know that for sure, you think he's corrupt? >> i believe that he is, yes. >> he has to do what's best for him. >> who's that? >> donald trump. he's trying to make america great again. >> so you think if it helps him stay out of trouble, he should get rid of the special counsel? >> if it helps him stay out of trouble, yes. and what if the president gets into increasing trouble? donald trump would be able to pardon himself if he gets in legal or ethical trouble. do you think he should pardon himself? >> yeah, i don't think that's the case. and i don't think he should do that. absolutely not. >> you don't think what's the case? >> that he shouldn't pardon himself. >> reporter: but most people we talk to do not agree, because they believe in hope it will stay a moot point. >> he doesn't need to pardon himself. there's nothing to find him guilty on. >> gary joins me now from youngstown, ohio. we heard the folks there, some of them chanting "lock her up" when someone was asked about hillary clinton. did you hear a lot of that today?
>> well, anderson, today as people came into the parking lot outside this arena, came into this arena, it felt like they had gob into a portal, gone back in time to a time when the campaign was still going on and president donald trump was still businessman donald trump. so we heard chants of "lock her up" just before donald trump took the podium. another chant we heard during the campaign while donald trump was speaking was build the wall. donald trump said, we will build the wall, but what was notable, anderson, he did not say "mexico will pay for it." >> gary tuchman, thanks very much. up next, we'll get our panel's take on whether the attorney general will resign. plus the loyalty question. sessions was the first senator to support the president. president trump always says loyalty is important. so why the disconnect now? "the wall street journal" reporter who asked the president about that joins me, as well. 'r. where, in all of this, is the stuff that matters? the stakes are so high, your finances, your future. how do you solve this?
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