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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  August 3, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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laid out. but it goes to his actual core values and what he has proposed. he hasn't proposed anything. obamacare, he wants to repeal, it would hurt everybody who's surgeon from this. >> i appreciate both of you taking your time. thanks to all of you for joining us. anderson is next. good evening. breaking news tonight on a number of fronts. major step by robert mueller in his investigation. cnn has learned how mueller and his team are following the money trail, perhaps crossing what president trump agreed was a red line he didn't think mueller should cross. and transcripts of trump's phone conversations with mexico's president are leaked. we begin with breaking news on robert mueller's investigation, the major new step today. we learned grand jury subpoenas have been issued. subpoenas related to donald trump jr.'s meeting with the russian lawyer at the trump tower during the campaign. what have you learned about the
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grand jury? >> the special counsel has issued grand jury subpoenas related to the donald trump jr. meeting at trump tower last june. this is according to a person i spoke with familiar with the matter. the subpoenas seek both documents and testimony from people involved in this meeting. though it's not clear exactly who involved in the meeting has been asked to testify. but given the wide ranging investigation, it is expected that special counsel subpoenas have been issued or will be issued beyond the trump tower meeting. this development does tell us that robert mueller, special counsel mueller takes the trump tower meeting seriously and he's doing things by the book making sure that if the grand jury signs off on any testimony. >> do we know when the grand jury was impaneled? >> the special counsel was appointed just last may. so obviously sometime after that. the subpoenas were issued in the recent weeks. in the last couple of weeks. and it shows that the special
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counsel probe that began in may is entering a new phase of the investigation before the special counsel probe subpoenas have been issued as we previously reported in other aspects of the investigation such as business associates of michael flynn, the former national security adviser. that happened out of the northern virginia. and at that time, investigators were using the northern virginia grand jury before the special counsel. but now everything has been moved it d.c. where mueller is conducting his investigation. >> what's the white house said about this? >> ty cobb, the president's lawyer, talked about this after the news broke. he said grand jury matters are typically secret. the white house favors anything that accelerates the conclusion of his work fairly. comey said three times the president isn't under investigation and we have no reason to believe that has changed. the legal team is, quote, highly content about the development, which this source says is not
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causing any anxiety with the president's legal team. they view this as something as a good thing in terms of hopefully the investigation will wrap soon in their view. >> pamela, we'll talk to you shortly. we want to get more perspective on this story. jeff, what does this tell you about where special prosecutor mueller is in the investigation? >> well, i would say it means it's the end of the beginning. it means that he is now prepared to start bringing witnesses in to the grand jury who will testify under oath, sending grand junior subpoenas to businesses, to various places where he may get records that are useful to this investigation. but it's important to point out of the grand juries can often sit for a year or even more, and, of course, grand juries can issue indictments, just because there is a grand jury doesn't mean there will be indictments. but there can't be indictments without a grand jury, so it is certainly a step forward in the investigation. but i don't think anyone should draw any dramatic conclusions
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about which way mueller is going by the fact that he has impaneled the grand jury, the way professional investigators do. he is seeing where the evidence leads. but that also means that he is progressing in the investigation. >> john dean, i think some people hearing this will think, oh, this means he believes there's wrongdoing, that he knows about, and he's pursuing it. this could just be a fact finding exercise, just a way to get subpoenas and doing everything by the book. >> absolutely. it really is an enhanced investigative tool that he can use, having the grand jury issue subpoenas, as jeffrey said they can get business records that every not otherwise going to be available. and it really gives them a step up in their investigation. so it doesn't tell us anything about any potential wrongdoing, it just tells us this investigation is serious, and going forward. >> phil, based on your experience with the fbi, you worked with mueller, how do you see this? >> a couple ways.
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one, i'm with jeff toobin, i wouldn't read too much into it this. one of the easy interpretations is speed. i spent four and a half years with mueller, and he's not going to be doing this in 2019. he's not saying let me take a bunch of information in and extend the investigation forever. i would focus on one piece that i think is critically important, and i think everyone will miss except people like lawyers and investigators. and that is, the difference between information and people. you would think this is about interviewing subjects. i look at this and say, look at don jr. he didn't tell us the truth. when i interview subjects, i can't anticipate the truth. what i'm more interested in potentially is subpoenas of data that allow me to say, who did he talk to, who did he text, who gave the company money four, five years ago who might have tried to call in a chip during the campaign. that kind of data that you can get through these investigations is critically important when you have interviewees who aren't
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going to tell the truth. that is part of what i think the grand jury process will include, anderson. >> phil, when somebody gets sued, the lawyers send out an e-mail saying save all documents. does this mean everybody has to save documents or do they have the way to forensically go back and look at deleted documents, or look at the -- does the subpoena allow them to requisition old text messages? >> look, this is about a couple of things. first, you should be able to go to a phone company or e-mail service provider and say give me all the information related to that person's phone messages or e-mail messages, going back a certain amount of time. the internet service provider should be able to provide that. you should get a historical perspective of what happened on the campaign. that's why four, five years might seem like a long time, but it's hugely significant here. let's say somebody called last june and asked don jr. or jared kushner to take a meeting. i wonder if that person bought an apartment in trump tower four
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years ago. i want to know if this was a pay-for-play, that somebody said i've had a business relationship with you, why don't you meept the person i want you to meet. that's why these historical records are so important. >> jeff, it's interesting that just this week we learned that the president was actually the one, according to the "washington post," dictating, the white house just said he weighed in on the statement, the misleading statement that don jr. made. i assume that will be part of what mueller is looking into, that he's focusing on this particular meeting. >> well, that is part of the possible obstruction of justice part of his investigation. the issue of whether false statements were made regarding contacts with the russians. don jr.'s. but the other point to be made about the subpoena power is that, you can subpoena -- you can investigate an individual, but not subpoena that person. if, for example, you wanted to
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know if don jr., what he was saying, you subpoena banks, you subpoena phone companies, you subpoena internet service providers. all of that evidence comes from other people, not from don jr. and these internet -- these big companies like banks, like telephone companies, they have entire offices that do nothing but answer subpoenas. this is very familiar work to them. so, you know, assuming that mueller is working expeditiously, it will not take forever for him to collect this kind of information. >> john, if mueller already has another grand jury working on investigating michael flynn, why does he need to have another one in d.c.? >> well, there could be a number of explanations. first of all, it's closer to his office complex. he's in southwest. so that could be just the reason of proximity is much closer than going over to alexandria. another would be that he's very familiar with that courthouse.
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he he knows the judges there. so he would be in a very comfortable court setting. the judges know him, too, which it would also be of benefit. i think it's probably a combination of those sorts of things that would result in him going there rather than the eastern district, where he did have a grand jury, and there was one going with the flynn and manafort cases. >> jeff, if they start wanting to look at, and start to subpoena records on past financial transactions, that donald trump had as a citizen with russian people buying things in his buildings, stuff like that, would they have to then impanel another grand jury? >> oh, not at all. no, the grand juries have essentially unlimited jurisdiction. it's really up to the prosecutor what they want to subpoena. the same grand jury can investigate financial transactions, can investigate tax offenses, can investigate obstruction of justice. it really is one stop shopping.
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the other point to be made is that grand juries are tools of prosecutors. there are no defense lawyers present when witnesses are examined. there are no -- there is no notice to individuals that they are being investigated by the grand jury. when you go into a grand jury room, it doesn't look like a courtroom, it looks like a classroom. there's no judge there. the prosecutor runs the process. so it really is a tool of the prosecutor, and he can operate essentially independently, and doesn't have to notify anyone about what he's doing, or what he's finding. >> so phil, when the president's attorney in his statement says, robert mueller told president trump three times that he wasn't a focus of his investigation, which may have been the case when robert mueller was fbi director, it's possible that if the president is being investigated, that his attorneys may not even know about it?
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>> they may not know. and furthermore, this investigation, that was months ago, or weeks ago. this investigation may have moved forward since then. the most fascinating piece of this, anderson, is not whether the president is investigated or not, it's whether people walk into the room and start saying things, because they see data laid on the table that they didn't anticipate. one quick comment on the pace of the investigation, and whether the president eventually gets ensnared in this. i don't think mueller would do this unless he knew what questions to ask already. that is, if i want to talk to somebody about don jr., jared kushner, i'm not going to say, what were they doing before this meeting with the russians? i'm going to know some of the answers already, because the investigation. i'm not going to ask for a subpoena until i know some of the answers, because i want to see if somebody's lying when they're sitting in front of me. >> jeff toobin, do you agree with that? >> i do. specifically, i think you don't want to start interviewing witnesses until you have documents. i mean, remember, the whole don
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jr. chapter of this investigation only arose because the e-mails came out. i mean, you know, there is this mythology that cross-examination of individuals can get people to tell the truth. what gets people to tell the truth are documents. corroborating or incriminating evidence that is independent of the testimony. and i am sure that mueller is not going to want to bring in significant witnesses, until he has seen the financial records, the e-mails, the texts that either incriminate or exculpate the people he wants to talk to. it's really more important to gather the documents first before you start interrogating witnesses. >> i think i also misspoke. i think i said that the president's attorney said that mueller had told him three times that the president wasn't under investigation. obviously it was director comey at the time who told the president that. not mueller. i apologize for that, getting it
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mixed up. thanks, everybody. more breaking news one direction mueller's investigation is taking. investigators are looking closely at the money trail between the president and russia. the latest on that. also ahead, president trump asked the president of mexico to stop saying the united states was going to pay for the wall. that's one revelation from a leaked transcript of a phone call between the two leaders. more on that, coming up. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps. that's the height of mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home... even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl's orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you're killing it. dr. scholl's. born to move.
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that story? >> reporter: tonight the russia investigation continues to widen. federal investigators explore the potential financial ties with president trump and associates to russia. sources tell cnn financial links could offer a more concrete path to any potential prosecution. investigators are del ving into possible financial crimes including some unconnected to the election. for the president, that's going too far. he's warned that delving into his businesses is a, quote, violation. trump maintained there's no collusion and he has no financial ties to russia. >> i can tell you speaking for myself, i own nothing in russia, i have no loans in russia, i don't have any deals in russia. >> reporter: now one year into the complex probe, the fbi has reviewed financial records related to the trump organization. the president himself as well as his family members and campaign associates. cnn has told investigators have combed through the list of shell
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companies and buyers of trump branded real estate properties. they scrutinized the roster of tenants of manhattan. special counsel robert mueller's team has examined the backgrounds of russian business associates connected to trump. back to the 2013 miss universe pageant he hosted in moscow. >> thank you for the amazing hospitality. >> reporter: cnn could not determine whether the review has covered trump's tax returns. but even investigative leads that have nothing to do with russia, but involve trump associates, are being referred to the special counsel to encourage subjects of the investigation to cooperate. >> the entire thing has been a witch hunt. >> reporter: president trump aware of the increased financial focus, regularly denounces the investigation. >> russia is fake news. this is fake news put out by the
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media. >> reporter: trump's team seeking to limit mueller's investigation. >> the president's point is he doesn't want the special counsel to move beyond the scope and outside of its mission, and the president's been very clear as have his accountants and team that he has no financial dealings with russia. so i think we've been extremely clear on that. >> reporter: cnn has learned new details about how mueller is running his special counsel team. more than three dozen attorneys, fbi agents and support staff, experts in investigating fraud and financial crimes. broken into groups, focused separately on collusion and obstruction of justice. there is also focus on targets like paul manafort, trump's former campaign manager, and general michael flynn, his fired national security adviser. cnn has learned that investigators became more suspicious of manafort when they turned up intercepted communications that u.s. intelligence agencies collected amongst suspected russian operatives, discussing their efforts to work with manafort
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for information that could hurt hillary clinton's bid for the white house according to u.s. officials. in flynn's case, the focus is now on his lobbying work for the turk issue government that he failed to disclose as required by law. both men deny any wrongdoing. >> what's the white house saying about this? >> so, i spoke to the president's attorney, jay sekulow today, and he said outside legal couple has not received any requests for documentation or information about this. he said any inquiry from the special counsel that goes beyond the mandate specified in the appointment we would object to. even though he says special counsel hasn't reached out directly to the president's legal team, you can issue subpoenas for financial records from banks, financial institutions, as well as, of course, you can get records from the treasury department. you don't necessarily need to go to the lawyers to get the information in the investigation. >> stay with us. i want to bring in matthew
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rosenberg and timothy o'brien. how broad is the mandate for mueller? the president's lawyer says anything that goes beyond his mandate. there's a lot of people that argue it's relatively broad. >> i'm sure the mandate does include this. you know, it's the kind of thing that would get hashed out by lawyers in court i would imagine. the definition, or the scope of the mandate offered by trump's lawyers is far narrower than most people would interpret it to be. >> tim, you know a lot about president trump's business interests and finances. you were involved in a lawsuit with him. what do you make of the fact that special counsel is now looking into all that, and maybe predating the election? >> i think all of this will hinge on quid pro quos, did trump at any point or jared kushner at any point discuss lifting sanctions on russia, were there any favors sought for by representatives of the kremlin, or anyone else, in exchange for financing in any form to the trump organization. i think that's one set of issues.
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the other is that, you know, donald trump doesn't have a closet full of skeletons in his background. he's got closets full of them. i think if mueller proceeds down this path, he's going to start to look at a lot of transactions that trump has done in the united states, with questionable partners. the bay rock group, for example. and i think issues like money laundering are going to come to the fore. >> the whole idea of following the money, a political scandal 101, in this day and age investigators can look at not only a paper trail, obviously also an electronic trail. >> absolutely. i think that's a problem both for the president, for people around him potentially, and also for general flynn, and paul manafort who are obviously now outside the inner circle. there were a tremendous amount of dealings done, you know, in general flynn's case, in turkey, manafort with the ukrainians backed by moscow, there are a lot of records here. it will present an opportunity for opportunities to dig into it, but does potentially open up
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kind of liability and avenues for them. >> pamela, is it clear how many people are actually working with mueller on this? >> well, there are 16 principal attorneys, anderson. so these are attorneys that either were working at law firms, or came from the department of justice who are part of this probe. beyond that, you have fbi agents, agents who have actually been assigned to washington from all across the country, even from the l.a. fbi bureau coming here to work on this. then you have support staff. there are really dozens of people. people continue to be added it seems every day, anderson. >> also, pamela, this is happening, obviously, on the heels of new chief of staff john kelly telling the attorney general jeff sessions that his job is safe. that rod rosenstein still has authority over robert mueller, which is significant in terms of any impulses the president might have to try to stop mueller. >> right. because it would be up to rod rosenstein at this point, with the way things are now with him
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being the deputy attorney general, to fire robert mueller. the president would ask him to do so. then it would be up to him whether he would want to. but i can tell you, anderson, he has testified on capitol hill that he sees no reason to fire mueller. i'm talking about rod rosenstein. he stands by his decision to appoint him. he was the one who appointed him back in may to this job. i'm told by people in the justice department and elsewhere if the president asked rod rosenstein to fire mueller without cause, that he would leave if he was put in a situation like that. >> matt, is it possible that if, you know, mueller in the course of this investigation discovers some sort of shady dealing that has nothing to do with russia or with the election that happened years before, that they could move forward on that? >> look, think about whitewater. it started out with an investigation into some real estate deals and we ended up with the monica lewinsky
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scandal. i can understand why the president's lawyers are trying to narrow the scope. going back to the electronic trail, i should have mentioned this, beyond the e-mails, we've seen from don jr., there are intercepts, there are intelligence that we know goes back to last summer that involves russian officials talking about manafort, russian officials talking about flynn. that's part of what got the thing going to begin with last summer. there are still a lot of unanswered questions about whether any of those kind of ideas the russians had, those notions were consummated, whether they actually did try to work with them. i think that's a huge part of what the special investigation is looking at. and you start digging into that, digging into financial records, these things can go on for a long time and they can get awfully broad, and awfully kind of veer off in courses we don't expect to see in the beginning. >> pam? >> i was just going to say, it started off with the intercepts, and raised the suspicions of investigators, and we were told that carter page who the fbi
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already had a fisa warrant on two years prior to last july when the investigation was opened, he also caused raised eyebrows among investigators when he went to moscow. they're wondering why this person associated with the trump campaign who we already have a fisa on going to moscow, what is his relationship, what are the russians trying to do here. it was a combination of things which is in the new reporting today, anderson is. up next, the possibility the president might try to fire mueller like he fired james comey. but a group of senators would have a bill to protect mueller. we'll get into that when we continue. i work overtime when i can get it. i need my blood sugar to stay in control. so i asked about tresiba®. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® is a once-daily, long-acting insulin that lasts even longer than 24 hours. i need to cut my a1c. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® works like my body's insulin. releases slow and steady. providing powerful a1c reduction. my week? hectic. my weekends? my time.
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sms rild to there jr.'s meeting with the russian at trump tower, and a bipartisan approach to protect robert mueller from potentially being fired by the president. the new senate bill would let mueller or any special counsel challenge their firing in court. republican senator tom tillas is one of the sponsors of the bill. here's how he says it would work. >> so the president would maintain the power to remove the special counsel. we would just want to make sure that it had merit and back in the judicial process. if there is a termination, we want to make sure through judicial review it was warranted. >> paul, you know a thing or two about special counsels and grand juries from your time in the clinton white house. when the trump team says they're not rattled, do you buy that? >> well, yeah, because they're idiots. i'm sorry, they're rattled or lying, or both. come on, this is a grand jury. if they're not rattled, they're
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not taking it seriously enough. the most important for those folks is free legal advice, don't lie. look at scooter libby, chief of staff to the president of the united states, convicted of, among other things, misleading the grand jury. and it ended his government service. and really shattered his life for quite some time. don't lie. when you're going through one of these things, i never got called to the grand jury so i have to say, i'm very fortunate that i don't speak from firsthand experience of the but many of my colleagues did. you can't talk to them about their testimony lest they be accused of colluding getting their stories in sync. in days and days before hand, they're out of commission because they've got to go work with their lawyers. the fear of forgetting something, missing something, even accidently misleading them, they have an enormous burden on them right now. not only just running our government, but this adds a crushing weight. if they're not taking it seriously, then they are fools. >> jason, do you see this grand jury as a significant step? >> well, no, not at all.
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the convening of the grand jury is about the special counsel turning on their computer. there are dozens of grand juries that are convened around the country every single day. and this is a step that they have to go through to even proceed with their investigation. and look, they may end up with this thing, with simply producing a report that may not even be any charges that get filed. i think there's something more important here that's really becoming clear, and that's the fact that there's absolutely nothing to the unfounded allegation that there's some type of coordination between the campaign and foreign entity. even looking at cnn's reporting this evening, there's an opening lead that talked about the fact that this aspect of trying to go into finances is how they view the special counsel views this as being a fertile avenue to continue the investigation. so i think it's very important for people to realize, this isn't even about some supposed coordination or collusion with the campaign in a foreign entity. this seems to be going in
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completely different directions. i think this really is kind of ridiculous. >> paul, do you agree with that? it does seem like the financial ties we're looking at are potential ties between russians and then citizen trump? >> right. that's what any good prosecutor, what any good investigator is going to do. i will point out in the e-mail released from donald trump jr. to the guy that set up that meeting with a russian lawyer, mr. trump jr. says, i love it. but better if late summer. which is, at least an attempt at collusion. we would be better served by negative information to our opponent late in the summer. that's a campaign person claiming to have damaging information about hillary. the collusion per se is not a crime. we keep using that word. but that alone is proof that there was probably not criminal, i hope, for mr. trump's sake collusion. but this notion that's like turning on a switch on a computer. jason, i completely -- it's like
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the word tumor. could be benign, we hope and pray it is, but it could be the death of you. you better take it real seriously. when that doctor says tumor, or the lawyer says grand jury, you better take it seriously. >> but the grand jury has subpoena power as opposed to turning on your computer. >> let's talk about something that is actually criminal here. and that's if you look at grand jury code 6-e, which says it's illegal to go and leak out any information about the proceedings of a grand jury. paul referenced this a little bit earlier. so the only crime that we're seeing that's going on here is the fact that somebody is talking about the proceedings of a grand jury. this is very serious stuff. i hope that, look, there's an investigation into this. and get whoever's doing it. i would think there's a trump supporter, this is probably being done to step on the president because he's had a good week, a new chief of staff in there and getting the ship righted and structure in place. really seems pretty suspect to
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me that this is illegally being leaked out. >> the mere existence of the grand jury doesn't violate 6-e. >> but -- >> excuse me. i let you say something really inaccurate, jason. i want you to let me say something perfectly accurate. information presented to the grand jury must remain secret. it must. you make a great point, if you start to see leaks coming out of that grand jury, that could very well violate rule 6-e. but the existence of a grand jury -- in fact, it's probably very public information, because they meet at a courthouse which is a public building. i can tell you, 6-e does not say you can't say a grand jury exists. >> i appreciate the shell game, paul, that you're discussing the proceedings, or the fact of the details of something moving along. then yes, it is illegal. >> that's not a violation. it's the testimony. if they say john doe testified -- if you're talking about the details, that is a violation of 6-e. >> jason, paul, thank you. the big story tonight,
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leaked transcripts of president trump's phone calls with foreign leaders reveal what he really thinks about mexico paying for the wall, and the truth about a conversation president trump accused the media of lying about. turns out, they didn't, he did. y i came across this house with water dripping from the ceiling. you never know when something like this will happen. so let the geico insurance agency help you with homeowners insurance and protect yourself from things like fire, theft, or in this case, water damage. cannonball! now if i had to guess, i'd say somewhere upstairs there's a broken pipe. let the geico insurance agency help you with homeowners insurance. call today to see how much you could save. with my moderate to severe crohn's disease,... ...i kept looking for ways to manage my symptoms. i thought i was doing okay... then it hit me... ...managing was all i was doing. when i told my doctor,... ...i learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease...
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other big news tonight, transcript of president trump's phone calls with leaders of mexico and australia are now
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public after someone leaked them. the transcripts provide an inside look into the president's conversations with the mexican president about the wall. the president did not tell the truth about the "washington post's" reporting about the phone call. >> reporter: his first phone call with the mexican president after taking office, and donald trump was already arm twisting. transcripts obtained by the "washington post" reveal president trump's goal, to stop mexican president enrique nieto. both saying, we will work it out. the phone call took place on january 27th, two days after president trump signed an executive order to build the wall, though funding is still an issue. trump appearing to try to script the mexican president saying, mexico cannot pay for that wall. a frustrated trump.
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but you cannot say that to the press. the press is going to go with that, and i cannot live with that. earlier in the call, trump issued an ultimatum of sorts. if you are going to say that mexico is not going to pay for the wall, then i do not want to meet with you guys anymore. trump also suggesting this could backfire on him. this is the least important thing that we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important. trump and the mexican president also discussed the problem with gangs and drugs. that's when trump insulted the people of new hampshire, referring to his win there in the primaries. i won new hampshire because new hampshire is a drug-infested den. coming from southern border. still, before it was over, president trump changed his tune, after they both agreed to stop talking about the wall, and who will pay for it. trump telling the mexican president that he'll make him so popular that his people will call for a constitutional amendment so he can run again. in mexico, presidents are limited to a single six-year term.
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in another call that same week with australian prime minister mal con turnbull, one of our closest allies, trump lost his patience. their conversation went south after turnbull asked trump to consider taking as many as 2,000 refugees that had tried to enter australia by boat. the obama administration had originally cut a deal to do so. trump's response? boy, that will make us look awfully bad. here i am calling for a ban, where i am not letting anybody in, and we take 2,000 people. the united states has become like a dumping ground. turnbull quickly tried to explain. every individual is subject to your vetting. again, like with mexico, trump appeared worried about how it all would make him look. trump, this is going to kill me. i am the world's greatest person that does not want to let people into the country. it makes me look so bad. and i have only been here a week. trump suggested the refugees could become a boston bomber.
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he also called the whole agreement, quote, a stupid deal. after finally agreeing to vet the refugees, he said the deal makes him look like a dope. later in the call, the transcript shows trump said, i will be seen as a weak and ineffective leader in my first week by these people. this is a killer. finally, before abruptly ending the call, trump hurled one more insult australia's way. i've had it. i've been making these calls all day and this is the most unpleasant call all day. putin was a pleasant call. this is ridiculous. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> to set the record straight, a few things we learned from the transcripts during the campaign, candidate trump never mentioned anything other than that mexico would be paying for the wall. president trump did not win the new hampshire election. after word got out after the call with australia's prime minister, the call was contentious and the president tweeted that is fake news. we know he wasn't accurate.
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both calls suggest his real, maybe his only motivation for any number of complex topics, is how they'll make him look. joining me is mac and jason. there's a couple of things to discuss. first of all, the fact that this leaked out and the potential damage that does for future relations with other world leaders which we'll get to. on the president, you know, blasting the "washington post" as fake news for reporting this back then, and then when this actually leaks out, it turns out, this isn't fake news. >> well, i think you bring up a couple of good points. i think this is something mac can speak to. some of the discipline he was able to instill in a previous administration a number of years ago. but look, i think this is something that general kelly is going to help do with this administration which is to remind them, look, every single phone call, or every single interaction you have with a foreign leader you will have to suspect that will leak out or be told. obviously i'm not happy about that. what i hate to see is when that comes from our end as opposed to
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the other side. i think that's what general kelly is going to do, let people know, every single word that's said, that could get out. but now, to this point about these leaks, i mean, in the grand scheme of things, anderson, this story will be here for today and gone tomorrow. this is not something that's going to be bouncing around for days or for weeks. but i do think, if you kind of peel back the curtain and look at what the president is saying, look, i'm glad that president trump who i worked so hard to help elect is actually giving these guys the business a little bit and saying, you know what, we need to be tough on some of these i. we don't want to take some of these economic refugees. we need to get our border wall built. i'm glad president trump is doing things behind the scene that he's saying in public. i like that. >> mac, to jason's point, he raises a good point, people will be glad the president is having a contentious phone call with the president of australia. but that's not what he said at the time. but then he calls reporters liars about it and calling it
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fake news. people in the white house have to know this is going to become public, the problem isn't general kelly and getting order on the people around the president, it's the president himself. >> anderson, i think jason made a good point in terms of, you know, words matter. and when you have these calls with other heads of state, one, you need to do your homework. and really be prepared for how you're going to try to handle that call. there's always spontaneity. but in this case, you had really calls with allies, friends, partners, admittedly some complicated difficult subjects. i think also, it is concerning that you have these transcripts really leaked, and the press has access to the full transcript in a way that's not formal. that's troubling. and it makes future conversations of this type more difficult. i do think general kelly will impose some order and discipline. i think you need to be prepped,
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obviously, and counseled by the administration. i think every president and political figure sometimes wants to put a certain spin on a certain conversation. that's understandable. but you've got to build some bridges with your allies. what we heard was, frankly, a bit unusual. >> putting spin on it is one thing, just outright mischaracterizing it and going after the reporters who correctly reported it and yet again using that fake news, just another example of the president lying about something he had no reason to lie about. >> well, the fake news, and the lying doesn't surprise me anymore, right? the one thing we know he is consistent about, trump, is lying. the real story here is that you have the prime minister of australia having to explain policy to him. like you teach a 4-year-old how to read. a is for apple, b is for boy, c is for cat. the president of the united
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states was completely ignorant and clueless as to the policy that they were discussing. it was painful for any american to feel embarrassed by the lack of knowledge of this president. it is astounding the level of leaks of this white house. forget the new chief of staff, he needs to hire a plumber to take care of these leaks. you are leaking conversations with foreign leaders. this is not about who he's having dinner with. these are conversations with foreign leaders. how is any foreign leader speaking to the president of the united states. on the mexican phone call, his base should be feeling very duped today. he wasn't telling the president of mexico you've got to pay for the wall. he was saying to him, shut up, don't say you're not going to pay for the wall because you're making me look bad. it was all about he looks, not the substance. >> jason, it seems his message to the mexican president is, look, ultimately it will come out in the wash. officially you'll pay, but then
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you'll get the money back through some other deal that we make on the side. that's not really how he ran. i mean, it makes sense from a political standpoint, but again, to ana's point, it's not what he said. >> i think we've established at this point there's not going to be a check written from the government of mexico, for however many billion pesos to pay for -- to go and pay for the wall here. but yes, whether it's restructuring nafta or how we redo the trade deals, president trump is going to make mexico pay for this wall. but i think what president trump is trying to get at in that conversation is, look, this is going to lead to a more contentious relationship if you keep going and saying mexico is not going to pay for it and that you're not going to assume any of this cost. again, going back to my initial point, i'm glad president trump was actually standing up and continuing to talk about these issues that he talks about pub pickly behind the scenes. to go back to another thing anna said a moment ago about the leaks, yes, this is very
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troubling when we have leaks that are coming from the administration, and that's why i think, my guess, especially that happened back in january, these were probably hold-overs from the previous administration and i think it's so important, whether it's the doj or other folks within the administration, they need to make sure they clear out hold-overs from the previous administration because i'm assuming it's probably folks from the obama administration that were out leaking this. they need to get cleared out because foreign governments cannot keep us quiet. >> the fact is, we don't know who leaked this and there are plenty of likes from the white house itself but i understand your point. i want to thank everybody. up next, why the secret service is leaving its command post from inside the tower. that's when we condition. when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. tower. that's when we condition. etower. that's when we condition. utower. that's when we condition. tower. that's when we condition. tower. that's when we condition. rtower. that's when we condition. utower. that's when we condition. mtower. that's when we condition. ptower. that's when we condition. tower.
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tonight, "the washington post" is reporting that the secret service has moved its post from outside of the trump tower in new york kcnn sources say they are operating out a mobile command. why exactly has the secret service vacated the trump tower command post? they couldn't agree on the rent inside the trump tower? >> yeah. it sounds odd but that's true. the president's company, which owns trump tower, was unable to reach an agreement with the president's government, the u.s. government to -- they disagreed about price, about some other conditions of the lease so the secret service left. now the trump organization is encouraging them to look elsewhere in some other building. >> do we know what the price -- if it was just about price, what the difference was?
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i think a lot of people were be surprised that the secret service has to pay rent in trump tower to protect the president. >> it is surprising. we've asked that question from the trump organization, what was the price deferential and why not offer it for free. we didn't get any answers from either side. >> they've moved down to the street which means it's farther away from the apartment. now, the trumps don't really stay at that apartment very much at all. but is that from a security standpoint, is that a concern? >> reporter: the secret service has told us that they believe it hasn't affected their security plan. we spoke to a couple of experts. one was that what is in this command post is the supervisors, the communications hub and backup agents, those to rush in during a time of emergency. now they are 50-plus floors below. they are a long way from getting
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to where they need to be. and now you have agents, the field agents many floors above trying to communicate by radio down at the street. there's walls in between and distance in between and there's a concern they wouldn't be able to communicate effectively by radio. >> do they still hope to work something out? >> it depends on who you ask. whether enwe asked the secret service they said we'd like to find a way to make this work. the trump organization said they've encouraged them for price reeasons to look elsewher. these are people who need to be near the president. this is something that they are unwilling to do. >> david, appreciate the reporting. thank you. tonight, the secret service released a statement in response to the report from "the washington post." it reads, "the united states secret service continues to work with gsa to obtain permanent work space in an appropriate
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location." so when we come back, the latest details on special counsel robert mueller's investigation entering a new phase. issuing subpoenas. and in this simple everyday act, we see. when we give, we receive. ♪ the rock: hey siri, read my schedule. [siri tone] ♪ rock. ♪ hey siri, take a selfie. [siri tone] want to see more of the rock and siri? just grab your iphone and say, "hey siri, what are you and the rock up to?" ♪ [siri tone] we danced in a german dance group. i wore when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna.
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there's breaking news tonight. cnn has learned new details about how special counsel robert mueller are following the money between the president and his associates and russia.
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much more on that in a moment. we begin with a new step in the investigation. grand jury subpoenas were issued. pamela brown has the latest on that. what have you learned about this grand jury and the subpoenas? >> anderson, we've learned that the special counsel has issued grand jury subpoenas related to that donald trump jr. meeting in trump tower in june of last year. this is according to a person i spoke with familiar with the matter and they seek both documents and testimony from people involved with the meeting. as we know, there were eight people in that meeting and it's unclear exactly who special counsel wants to testify. but given the wide range of the investigation, it's expected that special counsel subpoenas will be or have been issued pertaining to other parts of the investigation just beyond that meeting. anderson, this development does tell us that mueller takes the trump tower meeting seriously and he's doing things by the book making sure a grand jury signs off on any records request and any testimony. >> was the grand jury just recently impanelled? do we know